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3-way trade proposal between Portland-New Jersey-Minnesota

Once again, I took an hour and ran some numbers to see if there was a way to get Devin Harris. This deal also involves Ricky Rubio going from the Wolves to the Nets.

All of the numbers (except the team totals, below) are from storyteller's excellent website

http://www.storytellerscontracts.info/resources/09-10salaries.htm

Here are the details:

FROM NEW JERSEY TO PORTLAND
Devin Harris [8,400,000]

FROM PORTLAND TO NEW JERSEY
Travis Outlaw [3,600,000] Jerryd Bayless [2,143,080]

FROM PORTLAND TO MINNESOTA
Joel Przybilla [6,857,725] rights to Victor Claver

FROM MINNESOTA TO NEW JERSEY
rights to Ricky Rubio, Oleksiy Pecherov [1,547,640]

FROM MINNESOTA TO PORTLAND
Ryan Gomes [4,017,500]

FROM NEW JERSEY TO MINNESOTA
rights to Terrence Williams

MINNESOTA gets Przybilla, the rights to Terrence Williams and Claver.
Incoming salary 5,310,085
Outgoing salary 5,565,140

NEW JERSEY gets Rubio, Outlaw, Bayless and Oleksiy Pecherov (7' center)
Incoming salary 7,290,740
Outgoing salary 6,852,360

PORTLAND gets Harris and Gomes
Incoming salary 12,417,500
Outgoing salary 12,600,805

 

Note: I would be willing to sweeten Minnesota's "pot" with draft choices and/or cash, but not with Rudy or Batum! Otherwise, I think everybody's getting a fair return for their assets. I know, it's tough to let Joel go, but as you can see, KP would have nearly all of his cap-space left to fill the backup center position.

Fire away, because I know this one will be controversial...just the way we like it.

Poll
Well how about it, armchair GMs? Do we have a deal?
Sign me up! Devin Harris will be so worth it!
125 votes
Boo! You can't trade the Vanilla Gorilla!
226 votes
Kahn will not agree to this, no matter how much sweetener you add
92 votes
I think you need to check your math
6 votes
Dude, seriously. You need to get a life...
89 votes

538 votes | Poll has closed

1 recs  |  Comment 59 comments

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Comments

Display:

Yeah.

Somehow, someway…. I’m stll not sure how and where he managed it… But this deal screws every team involved.

Well, at least it’s a fair deal.

I know less than half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.

by haildablazer on Jun 28, 2009 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

dang it

wrong reply area.

I know less than half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.

by haildablazer on Jun 28, 2009 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can I have a redaction crew in here ASAP?

I know less than half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.

by haildablazer on Jun 28, 2009 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm guessing

you intended to put this under as11osu’s reply to iverigma2?

Doesn’t matter, no offense taken. I did try to put something together that would help all 3 teams and still match the salaries. I can tell you it’s not as easy as it looks—especially when the trade machine hasn’t been updated with the July numbers, yet

And of course, I’m not a legal-eagle like Tom Penn

by two4larue on Jun 28, 2009 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not worth it

Gomes is not a player I want on the Blazers, way too inefficient. And Harris is great, but not worth Joel and a whole bunch of young talent. The only part I like about this trade is that it gets rid of Outlaw.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.—Dune

by Muad'Dib on Jun 28, 2009 4:30 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

We'd be better off and the T'Wolves would be better off

if Gomes stayed with them and Craig Smith came our direction.

That said, I’m inclined to agree with AK. The T’Wolves don’t even do the trade then. You can’t sell your fans on a 30 year old center, a malcontent and a player they won’t see for 3 years (Claver). Maybe throw Outlaw of Bayless the Minny instead of NJ? I’m also pretty sure there would be uproar here as well. A player we could’ve got for Outlaw for just over a year ago, you’re now paying Joel, Travis, Jerryd and your #1 pick this year for… bad business.

by as11osu on Jun 28, 2009 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If I'm David Kahn, I'd only trade Ricky Rubio to Portland if Nicolas Batum and Rudy Fernandez are ...

included in the deal. Of course, that’s probably too heavy a price to pay for Rubio’s services — with the deal breaker not being Fernandez, but rather Batum — so it’s probably time that people give up on the dream. Besides, I fully expect that Kahn will work out some deal with Donnie Walsh so that Rubio can go play for the New York Knicks.

by AK1984 on Jun 28, 2009 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That team has absolutely NOTHING

worth trading for. Especially anything in the realm of Ricky Rubio’s worth. It just makes no sense. David Lee (no need in Minnesota), Nate Robinson (puketastic), Danilo Gallinari (decent prospect, no where near Rubio in value), Wilson Chanlder (blah player), Jordan Hill (again, no need in Minnesota). Consider that package comes with super inflated FA prices for both Lee and Robinson.

It’s an impossible deal to make. Rubio would be legitimately great in NY, they just don’t have the parts.

by as11osu on Jun 28, 2009 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But you forget.

McHale handed the Celtics KG for kicks. Helps some old friends, right?

Now it is Minn.s chance for Kahn to help some of his old friends. Being one of Walsh’s good ole boys, he needs to hand over something good. Rubio is the new guy to be handed over for virtually nothing so a team with a lot of complaining fans can have their own weirdly unfullfilling success.

by staylost on Jun 28, 2009 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If nothing else, David Kahn could have Donnie Walsh include a couple future assets ...

such as a 2012 first-round draft pick and a 2014 first-round draft pick — with both choices being unprotected — to the seal the deal. In that case, the trade couldn’t be considered a complete bust — even if Rubio lights it up in the Big Apple — until Minnesota fully cashes in on the trade five years down the line.

by AK1984 on Jun 29, 2009 8:12 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not crazy about Gomes, either

But he’s kind of a “replacement” for Travis, a smallish PF who can bang

and besides, Gomes’ contact is not guaranteed beyond this coming season

by two4larue on Jun 28, 2009 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd rather have Craig Smith than Gomes.

Without you out there, we're nowhere here

by 22baylor on Jun 29, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I love it.

Gives us a thinner rotation with more talent. A Roy/Harris backcourt would be deadly!

I would absolutely hate to see Joel go but lets face it, he’s replacable, all we need is a servicable backup for Greg.

by 1003100free on Jun 28, 2009 4:34 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

David Lee or Brandon Bass

would be more inclined to come to Portland, if Joel wasn’t around

by two4larue on Jun 28, 2009 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd also much rather have Bass for the long haul...

management would never let this happen though.
Sarcasm on
Joel’s long term 10-15 minutes off the bench is much more important to them.
Sarcasm off

by as11osu on Jun 28, 2009 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sending Przy back to Minnesota

where the Wolve’s fans boo him because he left the U early…there’s just something about the “redemption” factor in this hypothetical return trip for Joel. Maybe you can go “home” again? (Plus, his family’s from Minn and KP is big on moving his players along to “happy” situations)

Terrence William’s is a malcontent? I hadn’t heard that. I just figured that if NJ was getting Rubio and Bayless they’d have no trouble flipping TW to Minny

Again, I have no idea what Kahn or the Wolve’s new coach (Mark Jackson?) will want. But I figured they’d like a starting center, those are pretty hard to come by and Joel’s come a long way. And maybe the Wolve’s scouts have the hots for Claver and that’s why KP drafted Victor?

by two4larue on Jun 28, 2009 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No way

Joel’s one of the best players on our team. He’s one of the most underrated players in the league. It’s never a good idea to trade productive underrated players. We’d be better off trading an inefficient, overrated player like Outlaw. Joel could wipe the floor with Bass.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.—Dune

by Muad'Dib on Jun 28, 2009 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The idea is to get Harris

You have to give up quality to get quality. We agree that Joel is great, but his long term future role in Portland will shrink, assuming Greg stays healthy and develops like we all hope he will. You can’t realistically play the two of them, together. Przybilla’s family is from Minnesota, he could play near home and be a starter on an up-and-coming team. I think the Wolves would have to sit up and really take notice if KP put Joel on the table

There have been other names listed (Gorat?) of backup centers who are available this offseason. KP could get young talent to backup Oden, as well as seriously upgrade his starting PG position. The time to sell Przybilla “high” might be right now, who knows what value he will have next year, or in years to come? Believe you me, I’m not advocating throwing Joel into just “any” deal, but like I said up at the top “to get quality you have to be willing to give up quality”

by two4larue on Jun 28, 2009 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just don't like

how we’re giving up Przybilla, our most efficient player last year, and getting so little in return. Gomes is like Outlaw minus the potential for becoming a good player. Bayless and Claver could become quality players after they’ve developed. I just don’t think it makes any sense to give up our most efficient player, along with tons of young talent and potential, in exchange for a star pg and a worse version of Travis Outlaw. I agree that normally to get quality you have to give up quality, but normally the point of most trades is to come out of it with more talent then you gave up (e.g. the Pau Gasol trade). If Minnesota sent over Love instead of Gomes, then I’d be interested. Then we’d probably get more than we gave up.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.—Dune

by Muad'Dib on Jun 28, 2009 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

and you'd have your PG and all your cap space so you could offer more for either of those guys than anyone else will offer

I’m not sure the right move wouldn’t be to get a true backup C like Gortat at a near MLE deal and then sign a vet backup PF like Powe with the money that’s left. That said, if KP pulls Lee or Bass with Harris out of a hat, I’m going to be amazed!

by 52therim on Jun 28, 2009 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I will rec this as at lest a decent attempt

I am so much a homer with the current guys any significant deals just scare me.

by LaoTzu on Jun 28, 2009 4:48 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

NOT GOING TO HAPPEN

NJ is as likely to trade Devin Harris as Portland trading Brandon Roy. Seriously man, they will build the team around Devin Harris and a player to named later in 2010.

It is not going to happen.

by Balian on Jun 28, 2009 5:46 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

You may have read this already, but

There were reports that the Nets were shopping Harris before the draft, in hopes of getting one of the top 5 picks. The general consensus is that they were targeting Rubio

This news is part of the reason why I put the above proposal together

by two4larue on Jun 28, 2009 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And I wish I had a link I could throw your way

But you’ll just have to take my word on it. I listened to a lot of radio interviews and read a lot of NBA rumor articles in the days leading up to the draft, but you better believe that the “Harris is being dangled” caught my attention. (I’m pretty sure we chatted about it briefly on one of these fanposts at the time, but the focus then was more on the draft, and not on “why” NJ was shopping Harris to move up)

by two4larue on Jun 28, 2009 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I love Harris so much.

I would totally be open to giving anything up to get him outside of Roy, LMA, and probably Oden. Although if you could work out some sort of deal for Harris and Lopez I might be OK with letting Oden or Aldridge go.

by Nick Van Excellent on Jun 28, 2009 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm just curious

as I love Harris too, but his lack of a shot, doesn’t that concern you guys at all? I’m just going to guess your reason as being Roy then becomes a kick out option for Harris, which still doesn’t quite do it for me. He was a much better player this year because he controlled the ball so much. While it’s good that he has that ability, late in games, are you still comfortable with him getting those shots?

by as11osu on Jun 28, 2009 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is a concern.

You would definitely need to surround him with shooters. I just think all his other strengths make up for it. Roy would be seeing a lot less pressure defensively. It would also relieve him of some of the scoring load. Lineups would be more flexible as Harris is dynamic defensivly. You could probably run with Roy and Rudy together for longer stretches.

I can’t find the link, but there was this great interview with Tony Parker after Harris got traded. He was so excited about the trade and basically said Harris gave him the most trouble on both ends of the court.

Whatever concerns I have about him fitting are outweighed by his sheer talent. I think the Blazers could find a way to make it work. After all, Rondo wasn’t exactly a 3point threat when Boston on a title.

by Nick Van Excellent on Jun 28, 2009 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

there were also rumors

that the Blazers were shopping around Oden for a top five pick…c’mon now. Most of these reports are bogus at best!

"Smile! You're on a poster!!" - Mike Rice

by lefty6283 on Jun 28, 2009 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's a great effort here to put together a package that would at least have to be considered

I tend to agree with most here that say Minnesota wouldn’t do it. Do you trade the #5 pick for the #11, #22 and a solid veteran C? You might if you needed a solid veteran C and got to make the calls on which players were drafted at #11 and #22. I know that Minny doesn’t have a true solid C, but what do they do with Jefferson and Love when they add Przy? Their GM is so screwed up! Love and Jefferson… Flynn and Rubio… Wow!

Would NJ move Harris? They might, but it would leave me scratching my head. It seems like he’s a piece you build your team around. Would NJ want Rubio and Bayless? Bayless looked lost playing the 2 last year. Doesn’t this leave NJ in the same boat as MN is now with duplicated young PGs that can’t coexist?

Portland does this deal! Are you kidding me? We are going to whine about Gomes’ game when the deal gets us Harris?

As soon as Minny picked Flynn I thought a trade was inevitable. Who’s going to give up more than this for Rubio at this point? Does Minny want to hold his rights while he plays overseas for another season or 2?

by 52therim on Jun 28, 2009 6:29 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Their GM is so screwed up! Love and Jefferson

Well, we can agree that Kevin McHale was screwed up, but you can’t blame David Kahn for Jeff and Love

Drafting Rubio and Flynn was either Kahn showing his inexperience, or he had a destination in mind for Ricky. Like I wrote in another response, NJ was poking around before the draft using Harris a bait to move up and (many experts believe) have a shot at Rubio.

Now, does that wound like the Nets are planning to build their future around Harris, to you?

Of course the Nets must’ve spoken to Kahn (before and since the draft) but maybe these two teams haven’t reached an amicable agreement re: what Rubio is worth, or maybe their trade pieces don’t quite fit…or maybe they already have a Harris-Rubio deal in place and they’re waiting until after July 1st to announce it? Who knows?

My little exercise was to illustrate a possible way that KP could worm his way into the Wolves-Net’s business and get a player he’s coveted (Harris) in the past in exchange for a few of his reserves and the draft rights for Claver. I was trying to avoid adding Rudy or Batum to the proposal, but my main weakness is I really don’t know what the Wolves are thinking, because they don’t even have a coach hired, yet.

Kahn may or may not be feeling pressure to quickly resolve the Rubio debacle. David’s a pretty headstrong guy, but he’s also new to the job and could cough up a mistake trying to prove how smart he is to the rest of the league or his fanbase.

by two4larue on Jun 28, 2009 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i agree that rubio was drafted to be traded

but i’m not sure if devin harris is available. maybe he is, since vince carter is gone. three-team trades are complex, however, and right now the financial situation adds another layer of unknowabe.

something will happen, though, i think. and portland is a natural partner, either for rubio or the long-coveted harris.

ignacio

by ignacio on Jun 28, 2009 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rubio - Flynn is at least as screwed up as Love - Jefferson, probably more so

Not sure the T wolves have improved much with the FO change. Whatever Kahn’s plan was it seems to be backfiring

Some internet rumor or newspaper reporter floating the idea/rumor of moving Harris for Rubio doesn’t necessarily sound to me like Harris is readily available, but KP ought to make a phone call.

If I was Minny I would hold out for Rudy. As a Blazer fan, I sure wouldn’t do Rudy for Ricky (I don’t want a teenage rookie PG right now even if he is going to be great someday) but if it landed us Harris… that would be hard to turn down. Same basic trade… we send out Rudy instead of Przy and take back some salary (eats up our cap). It’s not as Blazer friendly as your initial trade, but could still work.

For what it’s worth, If Rudy was available in this draft… I think he would have gone to Minnesota with one of those 2 early picks. Am I way off? If that is the case, why would we have to give up much more to make the deal with Minny happen? We can still give up Claver, but let NJ keep TW. A little sweeter for both MN and NJ. That might let us keep Bayless as NJ won’t need him. Am I making this deal too Blazer friendly now? I don’t know. Rudy has value to us and others.

by 52therim on Jun 28, 2009 7:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Doesn’t this leave NJ in the same boat as MN is now with duplicated young PGs that can’t coexist?

Rubio = pure PG

Bayless = combo guard

I think they would co-exist just fine. Probably not as a future starting backcourt, but Jerryd could come off the bench and “swing” from PG-SG

by two4larue on Jun 28, 2009 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Depends on his running mate

Jerryd won’t be able to defend most SGs, but if you matched him up with a taller PG (Chicago with Hinrich-Gordon comes to mind) then Bayless could guard the opposing PG.

I haven’t “given up” on Bayless becoming a PG, but he’s going to have to show improvement on his playmaking skills and shooting to “stick” He’s sure not going to fail from a lack of trying, and playing alongside Roy (when he ever gets the chance!) should help him, a lot

But putiing JB into a trade proposal for Devin Harris is like breathing, you don’t even stop to think about it. (I could’ve just as easily included Blake, and kept Jerryd around to backup Devin, but I get the feeling that Steve is too well-liked by Nate/KP to be going anywhere…I suppose the same could be said of Joel, though)

by two4larue on Jun 28, 2009 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

a little modification

let me add a little more sweetener at MIN & NJ sides:

PORTLAND out:

Outlaw 3,600,000
Bayless 2,143,080
Rudy 1,165,320
Przybilla 6,857,725
24th Claver

PORTLAND in:

Harris 8,400,000
Simmons 11,242,667

needs the cap space of $5,876,542, which we do have.

NJ out:

Harris 8,400,000
Simmons 11,242,667

NJ in:

5th Rubio 0
Bayless 2,143,080
Przybilla 6,857,725
Madsen 2,840,000
Pecherov 1,547,640

they shave $6,254,222 salary immediately.

MIN out:

5th Rubio 0
Madsen 2,840,000
Pecherov 1,547,640

MIN in:

Rudy 1,165,320
Outlaw 3,600,000
24th Claver

they need $377,680 cap space, which is possible.

Basically for NJ the deal is
Harris for Rubio + Bayless + Przybilla + $6.2 million financial relief

for MIN it’s
Rubio for Rudy + Outlaw + 24th pick Claver

I think these are the deals they really have to give it a long and hard look. They may or may not bite. For us, yes losing Przybilla & Rudy hurts but that’s probably the price we need to pay for Harris?

I hereby complete the weekly Harris-to-Portland daydream exercise.

by iverigma2 on Jun 28, 2009 8:06 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

That is nearly twice as much as we should be paying

for Harris and Simmons. We’re doing far too many favors in this proposed deal… and Minny still gets squat.

by as11osu on Jun 28, 2009 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just can't go there

Rudy or Joel, not both. I think Harris is the perfect PG to play alongside Roy going forward, but I’ve gotta draw the line somewhere on “how much” i’d be willing to part with to make it happen

Maybe we’ll get more news out of the Wolve’s camp in the next week that will help “narrow down” what’s on their “wish list” for Rubio

by two4larue on Jun 28, 2009 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

you might be crazy like a fox

We can take Minn/Rubio out of the mix, it sounds like Kahn is going to keep him

But putting a direct deal together with NJ for Blair and Simmons has a side benefit that KP might be interested in

Simmons 11,242,667 mil contract expires next spring

The other GMs will be looking to acquire large expiring contracts next spring to use for capspace heading into the 2010 FA period

Can you say “BSEC”?

by two4larue on Jun 29, 2009 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not against trading Joel

since he is way too good to be coming off of the bench on almost any team. That said, I don’t think we can risk trading him until G.O begins to show signs of consistant health and improvement in his game. Hopefuly Greg shows those signs sooner than later so that we can move Joel while he still has this kind of value.

Maybe basketball just isn't your game. I know, let's have a spelling contest.

by Sea Bass on Jun 28, 2009 9:47 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I think we get a fair shake with this deal, sending out Joel, Bayless, Trout, and eventually Claver and getting Harris in return,

and New Jersey get good talent in return with Trout, Rubio, and Bayless, but no way Minny does this deal. They don’t have a real huge need at center. They have a young, promising big rotation. The best value for Joel would be to a playoff contender like SA, or Cleveland, not a young team. I like the idea though, this could be a starting point for a realistic trade. Maybe Rudy and Bayless to Minny?

by dario argento on Jun 28, 2009 10:36 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

by the way, what Quick was saying...

He said on the Talkin’ Ball that we had a chance to trade Outlaw for Harris by 2008 trade deadline (part of the Kidd deal I guess)

Is that true? I heard that rumor at that time but didn’t believe it. Now JQ seems pretty certain about it.

by iverigma2 on Jun 28, 2009 11:29 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Supposedly

The deal was for Frye, Outlaw and Jack for Harris + ?

Allegedly, KP turned the proposal down, because he didn’t want to part with Outlaw

“ouchie”

by two4larue on Jun 29, 2009 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I see a NJ-Portland deal

where Rudy, Bayless, Outlaw, etc go to NJ for Harris and Simmons.

She Hate Me

by cloudydays on Jun 29, 2009 12:06 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

totally pulling a timbo here

but the reason i see Rudy as a trade chip in a deal to New Jersey is like a Petrovic type of thing where we decide we don’t have enough PT in Portland and we trade him for Harris which puts Portland into championship contention

She Hate Me

by cloudydays on Jun 29, 2009 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's still possible

but Kahn is now making noise (see Egger’s quotes, below) that he’s not trading Rubio

by two4larue on Jun 29, 2009 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

NEVER MIND

Kerry Eggers wrote an article about David Kahn this morning

http://www.portlandtribune.com/sports/story_2nd.php?story_id=124628849937066300

Does Kahn have any interest in trading him?

“None,” Kahn says, “but you know how this works. If we’re offered Dwyane Wade … but this was not done with the intention to trade him. I’ve been in love with this player for years.”
“The contractual situation is the threshold issue,” Kahn says. “That’s being handled by his family and representatives. But logically, at some point – I don’t know when, maybe in a year or two – it will resolve itself, and he’ll be a Minnesota Timberwolf.”

Kahn took criticism for selecting two points guards at Nos. 5 and 6, but felt he couldn’t pass on Flynn, either.

“Jonny has electricity crackling out of him,” Kahn says of the 6-0 quicksilver out of Syracuse. “He’s a much different type of player than Ricky – much more of a scorer’s mentality, but with capabilities of being one of the best on-ball defenders in our league. He’s very physical for his size, very quick, with amazing physical tools.”

Kahn believes the 6-4 Rubio and the 6-0 Flynn will eventually be well-equipped to play together in the backcourt, with Rubio guarding the opponent’s shooting guard.

“They’ll complement each other well when they’re on the floor at both ends,” Kahn says.

by two4larue on Jun 29, 2009 11:21 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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