Marvin Williams Por Favor!!!
http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/2/19/765207/game-54-preview-hawks-vs-b Dave admits Trout is a "girl scout" compared to Marvin Williams
http://espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2797 Hollinger Scouting Report
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2009/5/28/891727/the-state-of-the-atlanta-hawks
http://www.blazersedge.com/2008/3/23/214943/579 Ben says Marvin is an "under 25 stud"
http://www.blazersedge.com/2008/1/27/23910/6222 Dave says Marvin has "star potential"
It has been a MIND BOGGLING experience to see absolutely no interest in acquiring Marvin Williams as a restricted free agent this upcoming offseason from anyone at BE, particularly in lieu of other maneuvers. With that said, I'd be interested in finding out if their is something missing in this strategy, and whether their is a belief this could be something KP pulls off in the coming weeks. Some "pros" people seem to be missing... (PS: I know he's a restricted FA, more on that later)
1st: Small Forward Upgrade 32 Minutes per/game - We can't count on Wester's bum foot, & Batum's upside is great, but anyone who watched the playoffs knows he's a couple of years away. In the links above you'll see "Dave" agrees Outlaw is a "girl scout" compared to Marvin, "Ben" calls him a "under 25 stud," and "Dave" once again says he has "star potential." If you haven't watched Marvin play, consider the fact these are not praises afforded to Outlaw, & seriously, in all honesty, I'm a big Batum fan, but it is really unrealistic to think Batum doesn't need more seasoning.
2nd: Defensive Stud + Lebron Stopper - Marvin is 6'9 & 240lbs as a "natural small forward," which is 30lbs bigger than Trout. If you check out what Peachtree Hoops end of year review thinks of him, he's shown to be their best "on the ball defender"(on a solid "D" team,") who "relishes" the ability to guard the "Lebrons" and "Pierces" of the world, and inarguably is a better defender than Trout. He is widely considered to have "elite athleticism," which allows him to match up against the elites of the NBA. So as a "sf," and the wider world of the Hawks blog-a world, Atlanta fans are in agreement that while he needs to improve the help defense, he is overall an excellent defender at the 3 spot. As far as "Lebron Stopper," a tad hyperbole, admitted, but even in the future, he will provide defensive matchup versatility when Batum is matched up against bigger (a la Artest, or Lebron) sf's that give him problems. Imagine the "D" in 3 years time if we had a developed Batum manning the "2" spot, Roy at the "1" for a little time, Marvin, LMA, & Oden filling out the front line (Sick!) *Below is Hollinger's take "before" this past season, notable because Atlanta nation really felt he started to develop that "bulldog" mentality on "D" this year.
Scouting report: Williams' two high-caliber skills are outstanding quickness for his size and his ability to hit mid-range Js off the catch. The threat of the jumper is the reason he drew so many free-throws, as he could shot fake and easily get a step on defenders. He's also become much more aggressive off the dribble when defenders crowd him, and is a threat as a finisher in transition. Though he's not a particularly deceptive dribbler, his quickness allows him to beat defenders on straight line drives with either hand.
Defensively, Williams' quickness is also an asset. He often guards the opponent's top scorer, and while he doesn't have the bulldog mentality of a stopper, his combination of height and quickness is a pretty good package.
3rd: Skills Correspond To Our Team --> Defense Needed, Check! Also, many agree we need a guy who can spread the floor, (read the extended version of Hollinger), and you'll see him described before this year as one of the "elite mid-range jump shooters in the game," and if you follow Marvin at all, you'll see he worked on stretching that out to the 3pt line this past year (in 61 games played, he shot 355% this year). Hollinger is in agreement: For such a young player to have such a pure stroke from inside the line, it seems he will continue to improve with this in the future. (side note: great shot fake, averaged 5 free throws per game this year) In addition, one of his biggest knocks is that he isn't aggressive enough on the offensive end, and despite his skills, he doesn't force the issue enough. Yet on our team, that is almost the perfect skill set for a SF in Nate's system, as we are looking for a guy who can shoot off the double team, play good "D," and defer to the "Big 3"
4th: Potential, Potential, Potential (combined with skills now!!!) --> Given: Marvin replaces Outlaw. Marvin is 1 year, 9 months younger than Trout, and has actually improved each year he has been in the league, his PER topped 16 this year, and Marvin just turned 23 this month!!! If you start scouring Atlanta blogs, you'll see they complain bitterly he was drafted over CP, and complain he hasn't lived up to expectations, yet many of them want him signed for about 8 million per year, because unlike Trout, no one believes he is done improving. He is already a better player, offensively & defensively than trout, and Trout has shown he doesn't have the lateral quickness to improve much defensively, nor the BBIQ to improve dramatically on the offensive end. Marvin is always described as an "elite athlete," and his upside has always been, and remains better than Trout. Combine this with the fact he is ALREADY a better player, who has produced on a playoff team, means we can improve NOW, while still building for, seriously folks, what could be a dynasty if Paul Allen pulls out the wallet.
5th: Playoff Versatility As Backup PF: (This is huge) Trouts skinny little body guarding Scola (no!) or... Marvin, 8-10 minutes per game, 30lbs heavier, guarding Scola, and providing a mismatch offensively (not too mention his offensive skill set mirrors what we'd want on a 2nd line with Pryz), that is something I can definately live with for 10 minutes a game as a BACKUP!!! This is a HUGE POINT: In the playoffs we need a "true" 3/4, someone who can effectively play both positions, because you've really HAVE to maximize your most talented players, the time for playing scrubs is over. Think Jeff Pendergraff can be a solid backup PF, well he is also 6'9 and 240, same size as Marvin!!! Admittedly, in the regular season, you'll want to keep guys fresh, but once the playoffs start, don't you think Marvin will be able to throw some elbows around down low for 10 minutes a game!?!
6th: Marvin's Blazer Attitude! --> If you said "No!" to the last question, again, scour the Atlanta blogs, and if nothing else, you'll find that Marvin is a "hard worker," "consumate professional," "never gripes," and "gets along with his teamates." He fits our culture, and that is HUGE! He'll be a nightmare in the playoffs, taking LMA's spot for about 8-10 minutes a game, while Batum slips into the SF spot. LMA = PF 38 minutes, Marvin = PF 10 minutes, SF 28 minutes, Batum SF = 20 minutes (I for one, believe Batum will eventually be able to man the "2" during certain sections of games, with Roy at the "1", while Batum takes over for Roy on the difficult "D" assignment.)
7th: Works NOW & "Long Term" & Fosters "Dynasty Dreams" --> LMA 23, Marvin 23, Batum 20 = Having 2 of those 3 on the court at all times as the forwards, WOW!!! Seriously, Marvin can improve, but this year he just reached the point, where most basketball observers would say he's about the 16th best starting "sf" in the league. I'm trying to be honest here, that may not make you shake, but when you look at the skills the blazers need, our "window," his attitude, and his upside, that's not bad, because he can, and always has, improved, and fits this team Most of the elite scorers play this position, so that's not bad company, and its not unrealistic to say he'll be a top 10 sf in a few years. So many other aquisition proposals say "get Bass," who'll play 10 minutes a game in the playoffs bc he can't really play SF or hit the "3", or get Hedo, (who will give us 2 good years max, plays sub-par "D," and already had a lower PER than Marvin this past year), or Artest (who again, could be in serious decline in 2 years, who will be difficult to pry away from the Rockets, and might bite Brandon Roy's ear off if he gets hungry) If we sign Marvin, WE MAY BE GETTING AN ELITE SF/PF THAT WE ARE ABLE TO KEEP FOR 10 YEARS!! That is huge, we've gotta go "big," and why not make a move that won't benefit us for 2-3 years, but for 10! (Nicolas lovers, there will be minutes for Batum, when/if he surpasses Marvin, Marvin can "full time" be backup PF/SF, and as stated, I believe Batum may eventually even play some at the "2" (Again, this is with the hope Paul Allen will pay the tax for a bunch of rings on his fingers)
8th: Hawks Are Cheap!!! -- One of my fav reasons, the Hawks, (check out Hoopshype) are are 48 million in contracts next year if you factor in 1 million for Jeff Teague, and 4 millions to sign Zaza (which they'll do). That gives them 8 players under contract for 48 million, and the salary cap should be 57 million. Best Part: Management has been clear they do not want to go over the salary cap, not a bit! Atlanta is one of the cheapest teams in the nba. IF the Blazers can offer 9 or 10 million (granted, its slightly overpaying possibly, but this, and this year only, is our year to improve for the next decade!), Marvin is a restricted FA, and the Hawks have been extremely clear they don't want to go over the cap, thus they may let him walk.
Closing: I haven't researched the "trade exemption," but lets say we renounce our Eurotrash, get 10 million in cap room to sign Marvin from the Hawks, and then trade Trout & Blake for Captain Kirk (using the "Ike Trade Exemption" hopefully??? If that is illegal, we may have to dump Webster to someone, Cavs might take a chance?), that could be a pretty sick team for next year, it would be terrifying on the defensive end, and it would STILL BE EVEN MORE TERRIFYING 2 YEARS DOWN THE LINE (as opposed to watching Hedo slowly erode, we could be watching Marvin upping the PER to 17, and joyfully watch as he provided "D" Hedo can only dream of....and if Paul Allen goes BIG, he can sign Marvin up again when he becomes a FA...sick. Heck, give the Bulls Patty Mills & our first round next year too, if that is what it takes. We're trading Marvin & Kirk for Outlaw & Blake...it screams UPGRADE, both now and into the future. I love the fact we don't really have to give up too much, and we upgrade at our weakest positions (SF, Backup PF, & PG.) There are too many dumb gm's (and fans) that watch a good playoff performance (Hedo, Ariza, ect.), and completely ignore the skills of another guy just because he wasn't on tv recently, it seems Marvin may fall in this category (ex: PER this year better than Ariza & Hedo, already shoots the "3" better than Ariza, nearly as good as Hedo, more long term potential than either, and his "D" at least equals Ariza, destroy's Hedo's, and provides more versatility than Ariza, yet no one acts as if he's a "top" free agent) In all seriousness, Marvin's has shown himself to be, in this vital way, what Devin Harriss was 2 years ago: a talent that can be had, before he explodes into star level. So that's my take, and I am glad to get it off of my chest, as it has been ruminating for months, I'd be curious to hear your take, and Peace Out!
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"most" "unnecessary" "quotation marks" "ever"
jokes of course. that being said Williams is probably an upgrade over Travis, and certainly has more upside, dude has been improving steadily season by season while Outlaw more than likely is what he is at this point. I too have seen few to zero mentions about him but thats because the consensus is that we can do better…plus matching that offer sheet will be a tidy sum.
UDOKA!
(formerly my boy, now just fun to say)
by CLRNCE. on Jun 28, 2009 5:10 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
If we can afford him, he sounds great
Thanks for the information! He sounds better than TurkeyGlue for us.
I would say that our need is more at the PG and a backup banger PF. That might be part of why we haven’t seen much mention of him before. A big investment at the 3 when we are 4-deep there seems odd.
by LaoTzu on Jun 28, 2009 5:17 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
MW is definitely an upgrade over Outlaw or Webster
His qualifying offer is around $7.25 mil. I’m not sure the Blazers pursue him if the Hawks are able to extend him an offer in this range. But, if the Blazers can acquire him this offseason I would be extremely happy.
4 deep at forward...
1st: Webster: we can’t, nor is any other team in the nba counting on him due to the foot, if things change, great, he’s an asset, but we can’t depend on him during our last year of big time free agency…2nd: Want a championship caliber SF “now,” then we can’t wait on Batum, lets “open” that championship window now…3rd: getting rid of outlaw is a “given” in this scenario, hopefully for that upgrade at PG, worst case scenario a #1 draft pick
Rudy gets a lot of his minutes at the 3(or with Roy when Roy plays the 3) so bringing someone in at the 3, whether it’s Hedo or MW is going to be cutting his minutes as well.
by danielfarrell on Jun 28, 2009 6:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Nah, Williams could just slide right into Trout's role if he was coming off the bench.
And if Rudy and Roy were on the floor at the same time, he could play the 4 and LMA at the 5, or when LMA sits he would fill in his minutes. That’s why hybrid forwards are so valuable endless rotation possibilities.
by dario argento on Jun 28, 2009 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't know much about him.
Sounds great though. I remember reading something at the start of the season that he was supposed to be a breakout player this year.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jun 28, 2009 6:03 AM PDT reply actions
care to explain your statement?
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
by HurraKane212 on Jun 28, 2009 8:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Hmmmm
I’ve watched probably fifteen Hawks games this year and I still don’t really know enough about him. Can you explain what you mean? How is he horrible?
by Nick Van Excellent on Jun 28, 2009 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah that was a several page defense of Marvin WIlliams
need to give a lengthier rebuttal
"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein
by Garden of ODEN on Jun 29, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions
This is the 1st player
I flat out whiffed on in my “summer options” post. I don’t know why I didn’t include him. Great job of persuading everyone towards seeing him as a realistic possibility; which he is.
Lol, I am glad you actually read the arguments put forth
…when people knock him, its as if they are completely oblivious to the near perfect match he’d be on our team, AND he’s actually much easier to obtain than when people say: LET’S GET DEVIN HARRIS!! LET’S TRADE TRAVIS OUTLAW & THREE 3RD ROUND DRAFTPICKS TO GET CARON BUTLER!! LOL, I’d be psyched to see him hear…
and I just love the added bonus of knowing that even if we get Artest now, his skills are useless to us in 3 years due to age, but Marvin could be a premier player in the league at that time, and if Paul Allen is willing to pay for a dynasty, he could just “re-up” Marvin
Is Outlaw enough and is Rudy too much
for the player you describe? He sounds pretty dang good so he must be on every GM’s radar.
He is a restricted free agent
Meaning if we make him an offer, and its more than ATL is willing to match, then he’d be ours w/o having to give up anything, which is one of the reasons he is an attractive option.
We’d have to overpay some to get him, but its still possible that’d work bc ATL let J. Childress go to Europe for nothing last year, and are adamant they won’t pay the luxury tax.
A sign & trade with Outlaw is another potential option if we wanted to go that route (that way ATL may sign an offer sheet they don’t really like & immediately trade him to us, for Outlaw & draft considerations, it could increase the % we’d obtain his rights). ATL is already trying to get out of Josh Smith’s contract, & Joe Johnson is a FA after next season, he’ll be big bucks to retain, so its not a pipedream to think this is a possibility for us.
As far as Rudy, that’s debateable, most BE’rs would say “NO!!!” But the whole point with Marvin is we don’t necessarily have to give up anything other than a big contract that ATL doesn’t feel its in their financial interests to match sidenote: most GM’s don’t have any cap room to work with this year, & the economy means if ATL does sign him to an inflated contract, they have less potential trade partners because few teams can overpay in this economy (again, part of this is predicated on the fact Paul Allen has resources to do things most can only dream of)
Hmm
I don’t really see Marvin as much of an uprgrade over Martell. They seem pretty similar to me, except that Martell is the better shooter. I could be wrong, though because I don’t really follow the Hawks.
"I been ridin' the midnight train, got ice water in my veins." -Bob Dylan
"Sasha? That's a sissy name." -Mike Rice
A bit different players. Martell is a better pure shooter and Marvin is a little bigger and a better athlete. If you like what Outlaw brings but wish he was a better defender and had a bit better of a head for the gam then you want Marvin.
by danielfarrell on Jun 28, 2009 7:08 PM PDT up reply actions
We don't know if Martell
will be healthy enough to contribute…EVER. That could be a serious career ending injury.
good point
I really hope Martell comes back healthy and productive. He’s got a good head, works hard, and is probably still a ways away from peaking.
"I been ridin' the midnight train, got ice water in my veins." -Bob Dylan
"Sasha? That's a sissy name." -Mike Rice
Here is what I posted on 5/18 on another forum
http://www.boston.com/sports/basketb…ticket/?page=2
Looking at 82games.com, he doesn’t seem to be a great defender. He seems to do well as a backup PF though and would be an upgrade over both Martell at the 3 and Outlaw at the backup PF.
Young, improving, athletic, fits the core, I’d rather have Childress from ATL, and I’d rather have Wallace or Butler, but barring those, Marvin Williams might be a nice piece. I’ll have to do more research on him, but he could be an affordable backup to the 3 and 4, and maybe we could wrangle a pick or TE out of the deal, maybe swap the 24th for the 19th pick to help ATL lower their $ even more, then swing a deal from 19 w/someone else to move on up and get whomever we want outside of the top 2. Marvin Williams + insert whomever we want out of top 2, wouldn’t be a bad draft day. It’s not the huge splash everyone is looking for, but it seems solid, especially if we are able to retain pieces like Outlaw, Blake, and Webster, thus enabling us to swing yet another deal.
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
also
the link was to a story about the possibility that he’d be available
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
by HurraKane212 on Jun 28, 2009 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
I miss Childress. I wish we could get him and his sweet fro over here.
* Building a Greg Oden Fanboy Treehouse Clubhouse this summer...
ATL still owns the rights to Childress
they have to trade his rights
by GreatOden'sRaven on Jun 30, 2009 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Irish3 makes some good points.
Where did this person come from?
by TrentEdwardsHoF2018 on Jun 28, 2009 3:21 PM PDT reply actions
If we cant get Gerald Wallace, get Marvin
Sounds good, the backup PF makes some since, but really only if somone was mismatched/injured. I think Pendergraph will do fine.
B.S. Liberal Studies OSU '06
Trade for Gerald Wallace!!
Huh?
Why would you want Marvin Williams? Batum is better than him.
No thanks.
Frozen Marvin
Marvin is soft.
I’d rather develop a young Batum who already played important minutes or hang tough with our current developing SF in Martell. Marvin is solid but I’m not sold on his game and starting and playing Big Minutes on the Blazers.
Besides, we should be looking at more veteran established players at this point.
"Oh yeah? You can Derelique my balls."
"I can Shavlick my own balls."
Woj reporting Yao done for the season, possibly for good
In reading this article on “pins, screws, & multiple surgeries,” it confirms it would be wise to proceed as if we cannot rely on Martell’s development at SF…
I saw that. Well, at least Houston becomes beatable next year.
And I’ve said it before, but stress fractures in the foot are pretty much a death knell for NBA players.
I know less than half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
by haildablazer on Jun 29, 2009 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Yea, anything you get after that is "found money"
after this happened though, it looks like there’s definately an opening if we want “Crazy Eyes,” never thought it would happen b4 this…I am in the camp that if KP takes the gamble, it could pay off BIG TIME this upcoming year…I like the long term factor of Marvin, but Artest would provide enough of a window to compete NOW, while waiting till Batum morphs into mini-pippen…
I would be very interested in Marvin
if we move trout. If we keep travis, there is no reason to sign marvin.
I love Batum, but unless he makes MASSIVE strides this summer, he is not a starting quality SF yet. He may be down the road but he isnt there yet.
by GreatOden'sRaven on Jun 29, 2009 2:45 PM PDT reply actions
I agree Batum is the SF of the future
But next year and probably the year after that we need a starting SF
"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein
by Garden of ODEN on Jun 29, 2009 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Good Post
I think that Marvin would be excellent on our team, even more so than Gerald Wallace. Marvin starting with Batum on the bench, and Webster in a reserve role is a formidable 3 spot for this team.
He provides depth at the 3 and 4, especially if Pendergraph doesn’t work out.
FYI: If you hit the reply button at the bottom of a comment, your reply can then be identified as a response to a particular comment.
Brandon Roy is the Shawn Kemp of monogamy.
by robrun2 on Jan 6, 2009 8:46 AM PST
Is no one going to point out the fact that Marvin is from Seattle?
While that doesn’t change anything in the vein of sign and trade, our proximity to his home may be an advantage for us signing him outright. It seems that many free agents in the past have shied away from the northwest as possible destinations, Williams being from the NW should negate any negative perceptions of portland that the average FA would carry.
Tony Luftman Is an Animatronic Robot created by Cyberdyne Industries for the purpose of the destruction of the entire human race, no one shall be spared.
First rule of Marvin Club is you do not talk about Marvin Club.
That is how these GM-media wars play out. I swear I’ve heard KP say complimentary things about MW before.
Marvin for Travis, trade exception (?) and scraps seems like it could work while preserving some cap room. I like the Seattle angle (I was thinking Alaska before Jiggamant cleared that up).
put a body on 'em
agreed
"Oh yeah? You can Derelique my balls."
"I can Shavlick my own balls."
by Terry Gamble on Jun 30, 2009 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions

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