Reconsidering Steve Nash (edited)
by lee3022 on Jun 24, 2009 10:38 PM PDT
50 comments
With Shaq apparently traded to Cleveland for a $5.5M savings for Phoenix and with Phoenix needing further relief (They still have $73M on the books) and not likely to be a contender in Nash's remaining years the Blazers are primed to get the championship point guard they need and offer $11M $7.5M more in cap relief (plus luxury tax savings to Phoenix) while offering a young point guard in replacement:
The offer of our cap space ($7M) plus Steve Blake and Sergio gives them the opportunity to
I know these have been debated before but with extra 2nd round picks in play as well we might find tomorrow to be a golden opportunity. Is there any possibility? Would you want this to happen?
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I'm not sold on Nash
I know he’s done good things, but
1. 35 years old
2. no defense
3. offense might not fit
I’d probably prefer Hinrich.
by pualo on Jun 24, 2009 10:43 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
with you on Hinrich 100%
in that scenario, which PG of ours would you get rid of? Sergio is the obvious choice since he’s unhappy, but I’m of the belief that he has probably played his last game with the Blazers already. I would guess it would have to be Blake, which sucks because he’s a great team guy and a leader on this team, but he and Hinrich are almost duplicates on the offensive end. In that scenario, Bayless would probably be the best fit as a backup PG.
"Smile! You're on a poster!!" - Mike Rice
by lefty6283 on Jun 24, 2009 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure that we can't do that trade from a $$$ perspective
the salaries don’t match (125% rule). Even after July 1 we can’t do this trade because we don’t have 7 million in cap space to absorb Nash’s contract.
I’m pretty sure we have to include another player for this to work.
"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"
by Magnum on Jun 24, 2009 10:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You might be right but Blake makes $4M next year and we do have about $7M available (dumping the euro holds etc)
by lee3022 on Jun 24, 2009 10:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it quite works
it’s close
also, they’re going to want more in return for Nash especially considering how many cheap, young players we have.
"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"
by Magnum on Jun 24, 2009 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's why I added the part about our cheap players
it won’t cost them that much extra in salary to ask for Rudy (for example), but to get anything more from the Cavs would have cost them a lot more. Also, would they be willing to dump 2 all stars back to back for next to nothing? Something tells me they don’t need cash so bad as to give up Nash for just Blake and Sergio.
"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"
by Magnum on Jun 24, 2009 11:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure Nash works so well for any other team
he wants to win and not rebuild and Phoenix is not going to win in the west for a few years. Cash is king in Phoenix (why D’Antoni left I think) so they more than any other franchise have gutted themselves to save money. They are still over $72-73M next year and that is expensive.
I don’t know if I would want this if it cost Rudy.
by lee3022 on Jun 24, 2009 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way if it cost us Rudy
"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein
by Garden of ODEN on Jun 24, 2009 11:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
KP doesn't have a contract like Ben Wallace's
now that RLEC is gone
Let’s face it, the Daruis Mike’s signing by Memphis is hamstringing the Blazers right now more than anyone expected. The 6 mil capspace + Blake or Outlaw’s 4 mil just isn’t all that enticing to other GMs. If you want to really help another team out of a financial hole, you’ve gotta have a large expriring contract to offer. KP had RLEC but sat on that $$$ last February
So, now he’s got a pea-shooter and the other GMs have bunker-busters
Sure, KP can still make “creative” deals but the waiting game has turned sour. Meanwhile, the rich (C-town, Spurs) get richer and the Blazer’s “window” keeps getting pushed back. Brandon Roy’s knees aren’t gettng any younger…
by two4larue on Jun 24, 2009 11:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well we didn't have to have Shaq or richard Jefferson
The door is still open for a good deals we do have nice amount of money we can save other teams and as these other teams reduce the number of nice piles of collected assets floating around we will have a more and more powerful hand to deal with
"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein
by Garden of ODEN on Jun 24, 2009 11:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right now, I'm skeptical
KP has to prove he can make a lopsided trade for the right veteran, and not just use Paul Allen’s money to buy draft picks and stock up on Euros
Too much analysis can lead to paralysis
Devin Harris for Frye, Jack and Outlaw? That proposal was nixed because KP didn’t want to part with Travis back in January ‘07. Meanwhile, Portland hasn’t had a PG with a better than league average 15 PER in 5 years?
Sure, 54 wins is nice, but when you follow that up with a one-round-and-out in the playoffs? Changes need to be made
by two4larue on Jun 24, 2009 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
most of BE didn't want to give up on trout at that point either
if my memory was correct.
Senior Asian ambassador of Blazers Edge
by Philthyanimal on Jun 24, 2009 11:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My guys like Bass and Hinrich are still out there
I am waiting to fill our real needs.
by LaoTzu on Jun 25, 2009 12:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nash simply doesn't fit in with what Nate is trying to do
- Nate wants defense before anything else from his PG’s (as that is what Nate was as a player) – Nash’s defense is offensive (quoting Peyton Manning from his old NFL Inside Drive football video game commercials…good stuff)
- Nash is at his best playing in an up-tempo system emphasizing the fast break – As I’m sure Jksnake and AK1984 can attest, our pace was among the very slowest in the league
"Smile! You're on a poster!!" - Mike Rice
by lefty6283 on Jun 24, 2009 10:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure anybody except Chris Paul runs the pick and roll better than Nash
Subjective observation – what do you think?
by lee3022 on Jun 24, 2009 10:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he was still a good PG when he was in Dallas and not in the SSOL system
Senior Asian ambassador of Blazers Edge
by Philthyanimal on Jun 24, 2009 11:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean when he was playing for Don "I make D'Antoni look like Popovich" Nelson?
Yeah, that team wasn’t playing anything like the Porter Suns or the McMillan Blazers.
by ninjasocks on Jun 25, 2009 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Rice, is that you?
I know Nate named Nash #1 on his NBA “tough” list, but if Steve and Terry Porter’s style didn’t mesh, why would Nash and Nate be a good fit?
by two4larue on Jun 24, 2009 10:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Just Because
And Nash wouldn’t have to do anything but mentor Bayless and be dreamy.
by ninjasocks on Jun 24, 2009 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah if we trade for NASH, Nash will play.
He is too good for Nate to keep him out for defensive reasons, right?
"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein
by Garden of ODEN on Jun 24, 2009 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
John Nash might trade for Steve Nash... KP will not.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jun 25, 2009 8:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
....................... I mean, really, KP was a Kansas Point Guard. Who else was a Kansas Point Guard??? Hmmmm?????????
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jun 25, 2009 8:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, especially after KP jumped
on Chalmers in the draft last year and traded a Kansas SF for an Arizona guy. KP has a long track record of preferring Kansas players.
by Royster on Jun 25, 2009 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's more to offense than pace
a big part of why Terry Porter and Nash didn’t mesh wasn’t necessarily because he had a slow offense, but because he wanted to run the offense entirely through his third best offensive player (Shaq) which was moronic. When you have probably the best P&R combo in the league with Amare and Nash, there’s no reason to not use it.
If we do trade for Nash and for some reason we’re still seeing LaMarcus iso’ed up constantly instead of involved on the move with Nash, then there might be similar issues.
by Royster on Jun 24, 2009 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nash and Roy
Both need the ball in their hands to be effective
Could Nate put the two of them together and change his offense to incorporate the skills of both players? And get LMA/Greg to pick and dive, like Amare used to do so well?
Pretty ambitious project, and Steve’s pretty old to be making those kind of sea changes for
by two4larue on Jun 24, 2009 11:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They do?
Nash and Roy are some of the best shooters in the league at their positions. The best players have the ball in their hands for their respective because they’re the best players. You could make this argument about any elite team.
Rondo and Pierce both need the ball in their hands to be effective, Boston somehow manages to make it work, while also having Allen and KG. Kobe and Gasol both need the ball to be effective. All of Shard, Hedo and Dwight need the ball. Billups, Melo and JR Smith all need the ball to be effective.
Nash isn’t AI. He was still an all star in Dallas playing alongside Dirk and Finley. I’m not endorsing the move necessarily, but to say Roy or Nash “need” the ball to be effective is ignoring the basketball reality.
by Royster on Jun 25, 2009 6:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's say
They both need the ball more than 50% of the time to be effective
Like I wrote last night, the real problem would be in changing the offense to incorporate both Steve and Brandon’s strengths. Would Nate attempt this when (because of his age) Nash is a short-timer in red/black?
And like Magnum said (below) the Blazers don’t need to improve their offense as much as they need to shore up their perimeter defense; adding Nash would weaken that area
by two4larue on Jun 25, 2009 7:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Regardless of whether it's good for the team
but it’s ridiculous to say that a guy who hasn’t shot under 43% from three in five years needs the ball to be effective.
Is he more effective with the ball in his hands? Sure, but so are Pierce, Rondo, Melo, Billups, et al. All elite players are better with the ball in their hands, or else they wouldn’t be elite. Does that make them ineffective without the ball? Hardly. There are guys that are ineffective without the ball like Iverson, Thornton, Z-Bo, etc., but Nash isn’t one of them.
by Royster on Jun 25, 2009 7:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's true
Nash would be much better at getting our bigs involved in the pick and roll. I don’t know if a minor improvement in our offensive scheme is going to add much to the win total, though.
"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"
by Magnum on Jun 25, 2009 12:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you're interested in resurrection
Let’s bring back Magic!
There are probably a few other dead careers worth bringing back to life. Just save a little of the elixer from the fountain of youth for me before you give it all to Steve Nash.
by 3pointer on Jun 24, 2009 10:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Nash is overvalued by Phoenix
He’s the reason Phoenix fans come to games.
If they trade him, season ticket holders there will revolt.
by baduk on Jun 24, 2009 10:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Teams also get portion of jersey sales
Nash sells a lot of jerseys.
by ninjasocks on Jun 24, 2009 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, for now
They can still “sell” Nash and Stoudemire and the uptempo offense to the fans
If Nash is gone, they’ve got nothing left but a rebuilding program
What a waste dealing for Shaq in the first place, then not keeping D’Antoni happy
by two4larue on Jun 24, 2009 11:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
trade doesn't work
we are way over the cap for 08-09, so there is no capspace to absorb part of Nash’s salary in a deal done before July. If the deal is after July, then it’s too late to cut Blake and take that savings.
If you want Nash, you’ll have to come up with a deal that either works now or will work in July. this one does neither.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jun 24, 2009 11:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I so beat you to this observation!
you’re slipping!
"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"
by Magnum on Jun 24, 2009 11:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
cut me some slack
i was watching Gran Torino
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jun 24, 2009 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This was dealt with above and there is still a bigger savings for Phoenix than they got from Cleveland
You are correct that Blake will still be in Phoenix but they save $7M and that puts them under the luxury tax netting another $5-10M. Listen to Nash’s comments about Shaq and Phoenix all about money.
Suns point guard and two-time MVP Steve Nash was asked Wednesday by NBA.com about the possibility of trading Shaq.
“I don’t want to get involved in that,” Nash said before a charity soccer match he co-hosted in New York. “Everything [Suns management does] has a financial connotation, so it’s not even worth commenting on. No one can know what they’re going to do, so I just hope everyone is happy.”
by lee3022 on Jun 24, 2009 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
one more thing
if we assume this goes down after July 1, using capspace, I’m not sure the numbers add up. Blake and Sergio make about 5.576 next year, and Nash is at 13.125. This means we need to clear 7.549 in cap space to make this deal work. with the cap rumored to me just over 57 million, we will need to get down to the 49.5 million range to make it work. Right now we are slotted to be at 51.5. We would have to dump our #22 pick and renounce both Freeland and Koponen to clear enough room to make a Sergio/Blake for Nash trade work.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jun 25, 2009 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nash...
would fit perfectly in Portland. Liberal, drives a Prius, educated, and a hard nosed player. Yeah he might be lacking on the defensive end, but he’s still tough as heck. Remember him playing with blood all over his face?
ARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGH!!!!!!!!- Sabonis getting fouled.
by sabonis on Jun 25, 2009 1:20 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You're right, all the sudden I don't want him..
2-4 the who
by 24thewho on Jun 25, 2009 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Nash is a decent option,
and I’m not going to rehash what other people have said here, but I think just the sheer fact of playing in Phoenix for so long and switching to Portland of all places will have an effect on Nash’s overall performance.
but if a PG like Harris is available, I think that you have to go after him.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kvh9wp
My avatar is 3 years into the future for sure...
by Taskmaster on Jun 25, 2009 7:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Nash's not-so-subtle love for NY?
Is it just me, or does Nash just seem to be waiting for the chance to sign with or be traded to NY to play under D’Antoni? Do we really want to give anything up for a one year rental on a guy that you know wants to be in New York? Especially if that one year rental doesn’t make us a solid favorite to at least get out of the West? I understand that he’s a solid professional and not likely to make waves, but really? I just remember Nash disappearing in that last game at home vs Phoenix and thinking that he’d really slipped…. I’m sure I’d warm up to it should a trade happen, but I just don’t love the idea of trading for a guy that wants to be in NY of all places.
by Tomahawk30 on Jun 25, 2009 3:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It is interesting that of 178 votes 94 are positive
That ratio has been constant throughout
Thanks for all the input!
by lee3022 on Jun 26, 2009 12:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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