Blazer Draft Prospects: Darren Collison and Brandon Jennings
by Dave on Jun 22, 2009 11:37 PM PDT
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PrintWe continue our look at potential Blazer draft picks with a review of a couple of point guards.
Darren Collison 6'1", 165lb projected point guard from UCLA
Why He Might Be the Guy
Unlike most of his point guard brethren in this draft, Collison is an able and willing defender. He's been consistently able to stay with his man and has shown commitment to defense in the halfcourt and open floor both. He's not a bad scorer. He's efficient in his attempts, notching impressive percentages from the floor, three-point line, and free throw line. He's an honest point guard. He'd bring a mix of proficiencies to the back-up point guard position. You could trust him to work hard and learn his craft. You could also trust him with your team. Once again the prospective pick is from a high-profile school. He's also one of the few points the Blazers would consider in this draft who can probably be had with their natural pick...no trade-up required.
Why He Might Not Be the Guy
Almost everything we just said comes with an asterisk. Collison's 6'1" height isn't a deal-breaker but his skinny frame and lack of explosiveness may well make it hard for him to get the job done in the NBA. Shots don't come as easily when guys can close out and leap higher than you. That pick and roll doesn't work as well when you're getting bumped and chucked. Collison isn't a real catch-and-shoot guy either, which is a staple of the current Blazer offense. His 4.7 assists per game isn't bad but the 2.5 turnovers that accompany them make you blink. That ratio isn't as high as some of his draft-mates. Turning the ball over is pretty much the number one sin in the reserve point guard Bible for this team. More pressure plus more contested shots equals less comfort, which means more chance of mistakes. Every young point guard goes through that. Does Collison have the physical tools to overcome? More to the point, you invest 2-3 years of patience as he learns the league and what do you get on the other end? A back-up point guard. Portland's investment may be better spent elsewhere.
Brandon Jennings 6'1" 170lb projected point guard from Los Angeles via Europe
Why He Might Be the Guy
Jennings is one of the wild cards in this draft. He's got potential as a scorer and passer without being stuck in between. He's quick, explosive, and dangerous. Like Brandon Roy he has his choice of directions to move with the ball, keeping the defender guessing. His quickness side-to-side matches his speed up and down the court which gives you hope not only for his offense but his potential defense. He can distribute in sets and off the move both. He has the potential to be an all-around star.
Why He Might Not Be the Guy
Jennings doesn't carry much weight or strength. Whatever potential is there, he's not a defender. He's not a percentage shooter. He doesn't have a deep game...a serious lack in Portland's system. He needs the ball to be effective. He got benched for the last part of his European stay. He needs a ton of work before he'll be ready. We've already got a guy with his general description farther along in the process than Jennings would be. Jerryd Bayless will probably never be the point guard that Jennings could become. But "could" is the operative word here. With Collison you'd invest three years and end up with a back-up. With Jennings you could invest three years and end up with a star or a bust. The Blazers have walked that road before and found it not worth the effort. Because of his potential Jennings will probably go in the upper half of the draft. You're starting to think about serious scratch to get up there. It'll probably cost you a real player, exchanged for a possible future player. That's not a move the Blazers will consider worth it. Jennings was Portland's pick three years ago. Those days have passed.
Do either of these guys float your boat? Is Collison a good settling point if Portland has to use its own pick? Would Jennings be worth moving up for?
Share your wisdom on these guys with us in the comment section.
--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)
P.S. Don't forget the Blazersedge 2009 Mock Draft begins at 11:00 this morning. Stay tuned!
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The scary part of drafting a defender
is the rules have changed so drastically towards no contact that there really are not lock down defenders. There are pesky guards that will put a hand up on every shot and will come out and beat you to your spot but as far as Collison goes I would take a flyer on him over Jennings
I try to help with everything," Fernandez said. "If the coach says go rebound, I go rebound. I work for the team.
""If I'm playing this game to get media and attention, I shouldn't be here," Aldridge said. "I'm here to play basketball, and do what I can do to help this team win."
His stare became blank. It was apparent he was back in that place, on the Rose Garden's logo, picking up Aaron Brooks as the crowd nervously roared.
Jennings just doesn't seem to make sense
I’d definitely be fine with taking Collison at our pick if we cannot move up or out with it. He’s a good player. Whether we have Blake and Bayless or some vet talent PG and Bayless, I’m pretty cool with getting Collison to learn and to develop.
That all said, I think the Blazers need more than Collison, so I hope we move out or up or that this pick is an afterthought for impact this year anyway.
"...the primary focus of all obstacles is to induce labor, so progression can be born." - LiL C
tidbit
Jennings doesn’t carry much weight or strength. Whatever potential is there, he’s not a defender.
This is a pretty strong comment for a guy coming off his first season against actual professionals, a season in which he averaged over 5 steals per 40 minutes (<—not a typo) to lead the entire Italian league. I think a lot of people don’t value the benefits of good gambles as much as they should. When Oden develops into the defender we think he can be, those gambles end up paying off more and more because the occasional errors don’t cost you nearly as much.
Brandon Jennings could very well end up as the 2nd or 3rd best overall player in this draft. Despite popular belief, a very brilliant man once said on a podcast no so long ago, “We have to take a chance”. Average players don’t do much for us in terms of improving our overall play right now. You know what might improve our overall play? An all-star caliber talent at point guard. Brandon Jennings fits that.
At the same time I love Collison too. He fits our immediate need for a defender and elite long distance shooter at the same time. He’d fit great into our slow pace, controlled offense. He’s also the type of defender we need, as he specializes on the the quicker point guards of the league.
Both of these guys are point guards I’d love to see on this team. Brandon Jennings, fits our second unit far more than Bayless does. I’d be okay with that trade straight up. He’s a phenom with the ball in his hands. Absolutely an impossible cover. With the new rules in the NBA, he’s got a chance to be the pure point guard/passing version of Allen Iverson.
by as11osu on Jun 23, 2009 12:16 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Not only brilliant,
but damn good looking.
Jennings would indeed be that “chance” player but I don’t believe the Blazers can do that again with a point guard. They’re like that person who always chases the thrill of the risky relationship with point guards. Time for them to just say no and settle down with someone who’s good for them.
—Dave
is Rubio too much chance for you?
Isn’t Bayless right now a lot more “chance” than Sergio? I mean, it wasn’t really close as to which point guard was better last year, and it didn’t come down on Bayless’ side.
Time for them to just say no and settle down with someone who’s good for them.If you’re going to settle down with someone, don’t you want to settle down with the right someone? Jennings is the more team oriented player by a long shot, and having your teammates on the court be Brandon Roy, LaMarcus Aldridge and Greg Oden, getting them the ball in positions to score should take the cake over Bayless’ one true advantage (finishing strong inside). After Rubio, Jennings is the next best thing in terms of future point guards. If Bayless doesn’t bare fruit this year, you’ve wasted a gigantic opportunity. In other words, this marriage / settling down thing we’ve got going on could have dire consequences (she’s got great legal council).
by as11osu on Jun 23, 2009 12:48 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think you can judge Bayless on his rookie year
Another full year might still not be enough but we hope to see progress. If Bayless hits his 3’s and moves his feet on defense he will be an asset. Jennings is not yet showing signs of leadership and Bayless definitely does.
I agree with Dave – this is not the year to draft a young point guard. There are three priorities discussed – a banger for rebounding and defense while LMA is resting, shooters and perimeter defense. Two of those three likely will come from veterans and thus I look for us to draft a shooter (there are also some pretty good ones available in the 2nd round).
I don't see how you can possibly say...
this is not the year to draft a young point guard
and in the same thought, think its okay to hand over your backup point guard keys to Jerryd Bayless. That is the exact same thing. They’re both complete unknowns (that is if you just completely ignore Bayless’ bad play). I think it’s pretty simple. If you can get a better prospect than Bayless, you do that. I think both Rubio and Jennings qualify as that. It doesn’t help anyone to settle down with the wrong point guard. Both guys fit our teams overall needs better than Bayless.
by as11osu on Jun 23, 2009 1:32 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
You criticize Bayless for not being able to outperform Sergio. But Jennings was not able to outperform Ibrahim Jaaber (undrafted), Sani Becirovic (unsigned 2003 second round pick likely never to come over) and Jacopo Giachetti (undrafted or never declared) in the eyes of his coaches. Sergio is not a veteran, but he and Blake are NBA-level talents. Which is more indicative? That Bayless had a bad year with occasional glimpses in the NBA, or Jennings a bad year with occasional glimpses in the Italian league? As for his defense and steal ratio: “He too often goes for the spectacular steal instead of defending man and ball” as observers note. Going for the spectacular over the right thing to do on both ends of the court was his trait in high school, and despite improving in some regards it still is. I don’t know his net and defensive on/off stats and such, but not sure they look very good considering his own efficiency was mediocre.
It’s not sure if he is better than Bayless. It’s certainly possible, but the complete on-court package plus his showman style (publicly wondering about which suit to wear to the draft, which events to attend, which showbiz lady to ask out/hire for draft night, “Young Money”, …) might not be worth it to the Blazers.
Honestly while I still like what could become of Jennings (and I think Dave as well) he strikes me as a FreeDarko player. Not a championship puzzle piece.
by Norsktroll on Jun 23, 2009 1:59 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't like the future of Bayless trying to defend Jennings in an important playoff series
and being made to look silly. And I see that as far more likely than the other way around. At the very least defensively, I see Jennings as one of the best gambling defenders in the league (CP3-like). I think a lot of people are buying the KP hype sessions about Bayless. Everyone should remember 2 years ago when KP talked about Sergio like he was part of our core. It just so happens I think Jennings is a much better prospect and would be a much better fit than Bayless. What besides Bayless ability to finish and-1’s am I supposed to like about his game more than Jennings’ game? Just looking at a skills breakdown, isn’t Jennings the guy you go for, for this team?
by as11osu on Jun 23, 2009 2:18 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
You could be right about Jennings.
You most likely are not, but then up to than half the GM’s in the league tend to be wrong when evaluating draft picks.
Assuming for the moment you are, physical skills are only half of the equation. Ignoring the other half – the half Norsktroll points out above – makes me believe you are suffering from a common summer ailment, hype induced fever. Jennings does not have much of a track record. What we have is a hyped high school player (does Sebastian Telfair ring a bell?) who received increased attention by going from HS to the European leagues.
Jerryd Bayless is a gamble. We don’t know if he will cut it as a starting PG. But Jennings is every bit as much of a gamble and probably more of one. Whatever edge you think he might have on Bayless due to his skill set is offset by the red flags fluttering around him. If any team’s fans should be familiar with players who have loads of talent but come up short on character it should be Portland fans. Brandon Jennings is putting out all the signals of a “me first” player. I don’t care if he is the second coming of Chris Paul (he’s not even close). Adding that type of player is almost always a mistake.
hakkaa päälle !
I've never seen a fan base more willing to throw around
the “questionable” character criticism. Is it because he has a back tattoo of “Young Money”? Bayless has his own name tattooed on his back, but one’s okay and the other isn’t?
Or is it because he bothered to criticize Ricky Rubio? When significant portions of fans do the same thing here every day. Big deal. I think Nate even said as much.
As far as I know, he’s never gotten into any trouble, and never made any noises in about PT when he was riding the pine in Rome. The worst thing he’s done is not qualify academically for college, which Brandon was extremely close to doing also.
And comparing him to Telfair is just ridiculous. He apparently played Bayless to a in 2007 at a UA scrimmage despite being a year younger. But the real thing is that Jennings was the consensus top recruit (every scouting service had him 1 except rivals.com, which had Mullens), while no scouting organization had Telfair ranked higher than 5th in the class of 04 coming out of HS (by comparison, Bayless was ranked between 5th and 13th in a loaded class).
Couple of rebuttal points here.
I did not state Jennings had a questionable character, I said I had questions about him. What I did say was he has the signs of being a me first player. That is not the same as saying he is a bad character. It means that it is possible that Jennings would have trouble assimilating into a team concept or accepting a role other than what he has in mind for himself.
Why do I say this? I’ve read comments about how his game in Italy was more about scoring than setting up his teammates, how even in high school he would always choice the spectacular play over the sure one, how in his workout with Minn. he seemed to have trouble taking direction from the coaches and preferred to run the play his own way. The fact he supposedly has hired a fashion consultant to ensure he looks good in the Green Room on draft day. I don’t really put much weight on the Rubio comments, other than seeing it as a sign of immaturity. At his age that is certainly not a fatal flaw and could be over looked. However when you couple immaturity with what appears to be mind set that focuses more on image than substance, you raise warning flags for me.
The other point has to do with how you seem to rank talent. Do you really think there is a world of difference in talent between someone ranked 1 or 2 among high school seniors and some one ranked 5th or even 10th? It just ain’t so. And that doesn’t even take into account how tenuous rankings of high school kids are in relation to performance as NBA players. To say Telfair is ridiculous as a comparison based only on their relative rankings among their respective high school peers is about as weak is it gets. Even I can think of better arguments why it is not an exact comparison (in fact I don’t think it is and didn’t claim to). But there are parallels between their ages and how they were hyped. It didn’t exactly work out last time and there really isn’t anything you can point to this time and say a repeat is impossible.
hakkaa päälle !
While you didn't outright state he has questionable character issues
I take the following passage:
Whatever edge you think he might have on Bayless due to his skill set is offset by the red flags fluttering around him. If any team’s fans should be familiar with players who have loads of talent but come up short on character it should be Portland fans
As meaning, “this guy has character red flags”. Saying it means something beyond that seems to be nitpicking to me. I don’t put any more weight into him hiring a fashion consultant than I do into Bayless getting a monogrammed suit for the night.
As far as the high school rankings, I don’t think there’s a huge difference in general, especially given the uncertain nature of it all, but I think there’s a huge difference between a consensus number one guy and the rest.
In the last 10 years, the consensus number ones (defined as having at least 3 of 6 services in DX’s rankings ranking them as the top prospects) have been: Al Harrington, Eddy Curry, Amare Stoudemire, LeBron James, Dwight Howard, Gerald Green, Greg Oden, OJ Mayo and Jennings.
Obviously a couple busts in there, mainly due to motivational issues with Curry and Green (who came from the well-publicized weakest HS class ever), but, assuming Greg and OJ work out, that’s over a 50% return on superstardom.
And like I posted below, there hasn’t been a single scout or analyst that’s compared the two. It’s almost all posters who seize on the “both are hyped quick HS PGs”. Well, so were Derrick Rose, OJ Mayo, Jerryd Bayless, et al.
Several folks here have also drawn a comparison ...
… to Marbury.
Except perhaps for the sex with a front office employee episode, one can’t really argue that Marbury is a bad character. What oen can easily argue is that he is a me first player. The world centers around Stephan, at least according to Stephan. I am getting some of the same vibe from Jennings. That is a red flag to me.
There is no denying Marbury’s talent. The guy has stats and All-Star appearances to back that up. But it is also pretty hard to deny that Marbury has never made a team he played on better. Brandon Jennings could be far and away the best talent in this draft and end up with the best numbers of anyone else. But a good GM knows that there is more to basketball than just having the best talent. Why do you think Pritchard mentions culture so much?
If you think it is a mistake to pass on Jennings if he is available because of his talent, then fine. I prefer to look at the whole picture and the picture I see doesn’t have Jennings as a good fit for Portland.
hakkaa päälle !
And personally, I trust the words of guys who have actually talked to him
more than random posters here asserting that he’s Marbury or Telfair or scuttlebutt from other blogs asserting rumors about his psych tests. The scouting reports Leeroy cited below highlighted his maturity and work ethic, Givony’s feature talked about his maturity.
So much misinformation gets spread before the draft that until there’s something beyong “uncofirmed reports”, I’ll stick with what’s been said on the record.
I mean, I agree that there are legit issues
with playing style/fit, but I just don’t classify that as a questionable character issue. By all accounts, Jennings seemed to react well to adversity in Rome whereas every time Marbury had an issue with PT/coach’s he’s lashed out; either demanding a trade from Minny, or threatening to blackmail Isiah if he didn’t start him.
Of course, if he does fall out of the lottery I’ll have some serious questions about him, just like I’ve had serious questions about why Bayless fell from “guaranteed” top 4 pick to 11th, but I’m giving Jennings the benefit of the doubt right now.
Jennings is a lose/lose gamble...
Jerryd Bayless is a gamble. We don’t know if he will cut it as a starting PG. But Jennings is every bit as much of a gamble and probably more of one.
If you draft him and he doesn’t pan out, you lose. If you draft him and he does pan out, you’re stuck with an overpaid, egocentric, show-me-the-money, bigmouth team cancer — Gary Payton writ large.
No thanks.
Kill, Rex, Kill!
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jun 23, 2009 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good quote from some ESPN-Insider dude named Doug and his mock draft (up in the current Junk Drawer)...
[ON JENNINGS]: "I’ve seen this movie before. It was called Stephon Marbury."
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jun 23, 2009 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Highly debatable assertion:
“it wasn’t really close as to which point guard was better last year”
I think Nate disagreed with you, that is why he had such a hard time making a decision after Blake returned. I think a nuanced look at the stats disagrees with you. I think a lot of folks on this board disagree with you.
Sergio, in his third year, got the close call and played his best ball of the season in April. That doesn’t really mean much in terms of who the team thinks has more to offer for the long haul.
by upper left corner on Jun 23, 2009 7:56 AM PDT up reply actions
67 games into the season.
Trail Blazers coach Nate McMillan on Tuesday said the team’s backup point guard position remains an unsettled situation, despite his move to play rookie Jerryd Bayless on Monday against Memphis while sitting Sergio Rodriguez for the first time all season. It appears that McMillan intends to use Bayless for mostly defensive purposes, when he needs a body to stay in front of a speedy point guard. And it appears he intends to use Rodriguez with the second unit now that Rudy Fernandez has worked his way back from injury. Earlier this season, when Bayless started making more of a push for playing time in practice, McMillan said he would not play mind games with his point guards by flip-flopping them in and out of the backup spot.-Jason Quick
Sounds like it was pretty close to me.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on Jun 23, 2009 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions
"People don't value the benefits of good gambles ..."
Obviously his coach in Italy didn’t. But that guy is a professional. What does he know.
I would argue the other way. I think most professionals do understand the value. It is the fans that don’t. They look at high steal numbers and think good defender or at the least a disruptive force. They are usually only half right. Guys who gamble for the steal all the time are certainly disruptive – to their own team. From what I can deduce, a good indicator to look for is whether the word “gamble” is used when describing a player who gets a lot of steals. That tends to mean that the player is quick, but that he values steals over holding up his responsibilities in the team’s defense strategies.
.
hakkaa päälle !
Huh?
Steals are bad now?
Is there evidence out there that guys who get more steals blow their assignments more often, or is this a myth just like the myth that the Suns a few years back didn’t play defense.
The Princess of Blazersedge
i think its the AI perception
AI wasnt a good defender but he sure got a ton of steals because he gambled. So if you have a disproportionate amount of steals, people assume you are playing like AI
by GreatOden'sRaven on Jun 23, 2009 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions
I didn't say steal are bad.
I said that gambling on making the steal is not the same as being a good defensive player.
If Jennings attempts 7 steal attempts a game is successful on 5 of them. Then I’d say he’s likely a super quick guy with either an instinctive feel for it or an intellegence level that allows him to get inside his opponent’s decision cycle. If he tries it 10 or 12 times and is successful on 5 of them, then I start thinking he’s super quick, but what is he doing to the rest of the defense.
hakkaa päälle !
I'd take 5 out of 10
Those kinds of steals often lead to an automatic 2 points. You’re basically taking away 5 enemy possessions and ensuring that you score on 5 possessions. In other words, the opponents would have to score on all 5 of those failed steals to counter it out. A guy missing a steal opportunity gives the opponent maybe 2 seconds to take advantage of the discrepancy in numbers. This doesn’t lead to scoring 5/5 times, not even close.
Basically, for open court steals like that, I’m all for gambling so long as you don’t bat 10% like AI seemed to.
The Princess of Blazersedge
Yes...
Jennings is a marginally better fit than Bayless for the second unit, but I think both Bayless and Jennings would hope to make the first unit soon. I think Bayless is a better fit next to Roy, but I’ll admit that that’s a very subjective view. The Blazers played pretty well with Bayless at the One and Roy at the two, according to 82games.com: http://www.82games.com/0809/08POR3.HTM#5man
In addition, let’s be honest about Brandon Jennings performance overseas. It was on par with what Bayless did for the Blazers. His steals in the Italian League (not the tougher Euroleague) is the single promising number from his box score.
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Brandon-Jennings-1114/
Nope
The Blazers played pretty well with Bayless at the One and Roy at the two
They sure didn’t. Roy played worse with Bayless than with any other player on the team besides Sergio and Frye.
Also, Jennings had a 34% assists rate in Italy, which ranked him in the top 10 of the entire league. Assists and steals… those things translate better to this teams first or second unit than Bayless’ and-1 ability.
Source?
They sure didn’t. Roy played worse with Bayless than with any other player on the team besides Sergio and Frye.
What is your source? Based on 82 games, the Blazers played well with Roy and Bayless together. They were plus +11.9 per 48 minutes, slightly better than Roy’s season average of +11.4.
Jennings assist to turnover ratio was poor. A 34% assist rate in the Italian League in 17 minutes of play is nothing to brag about. There are only 17 teams in the Italian League. Top 10 isn’t that impressive.
The Bayless Roy pairing played at a +6 per 48 level
http://www.82games.com/0809/0809PORP.HTM
The only pairings worse for Roy were Sergio and Frye.
in addition...
The only relevant comparison for Bayless are Blake and Sergio… or Fernandez if you isolated his minutes playing PG.
Jennings
going to play in the euro league and skipping collage??? It just seems so punative in the overall scope of things. But with that said I do do highly rate it as a character flaw I cannot overlook it. Show me the money. There are alot of those players in the league that have never lived up to any of there hype.
I try to help with everything," Fernandez said. "If the coach says go rebound, I go rebound. I work for the team.
""If I'm playing this game to get media and attention, I shouldn't be here," Aldridge said. "I'm here to play basketball, and do what I can do to help this team win."
His stare became blank. It was apparent he was back in that place, on the Rose Garden's logo, picking up Aaron Brooks as the crowd nervously roared.
It is also a higher level of competiton
And I would add that the NCAA make money off these college players while giving little back to them. College may be the right option for some people, but I respect the idea that you should be able to go to work after you graduate high school and that is exactly what Jennings did. I have no problem with someone bucking the arbitrary one and done rule and making some money while they do it. It happens all the time in most other sports so I see no reason it should not happen in basketball.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
I guess you could add that there
are plenty of players who have stuck it out in college and then did little in the NBA. Somehow only the other side of the coin gets mentioned.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
Unless the kidd
is being told some serious untruths or is just to high on himself they should have a pretty good handle on there status going pro. I would venture that a player projected out as a mid first rnder should get a good collage education. They are going to be a bench player or out of the league after there rookie contract.
I try to help with everything," Fernandez said. "If the coach says go rebound, I go rebound. I work for the team.
""If I'm playing this game to get media and attention, I shouldn't be here," Aldridge said. "I'm here to play basketball, and do what I can do to help this team win."
His stare became blank. It was apparent he was back in that place, on the Rose Garden's logo, picking up Aaron Brooks as the crowd nervously roared.
why
a mid first rounder makes you a guaranteed millionaire, what does another year in college do for most students/athletes? It rarely makes them millionaires that much is for sure.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
True
But someone that is 20 years old becoming a millionare, and not having the education or tutalidge to know what to do with his money is in trouble before he ever see’s the paycheck. At least with an education Jennings would be able to hopefully identify, and surround himself with collage mates that would be able to steer him in the right direction(investment wise, life choices) as his short career is winding down.
I try to help with everything," Fernandez said. "If the coach says go rebound, I go rebound. I work for the team.
""If I'm playing this game to get media and attention, I shouldn't be here," Aldridge said. "I'm here to play basketball, and do what I can do to help this team win."
His stare became blank. It was apparent he was back in that place, on the Rose Garden's logo, picking up Aaron Brooks as the crowd nervously roared.
the NBA
has a program for rookies that addresses these very issues
College does not really address any of this as these player lead extremely insulated lives where everything is taken care of for them.
There have been plenty of players who have messed up everything who happened to spend 3+ years in college so I dont buy an argument that somehow college teaches you how to be monetarily/people savvy.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
What kills me
Is that folks are always going off on Outlaw’s BBIQ. Jennings was not smart enough to get into college either by passing tests or cheating his way in. And after his Rubio comments, he has solidified my opinion that he is the least intelligent player in this years draft. I think he’s the Stephon Marbury of this year’s draft.
Dumb is dumb is dumb
I’m not talking about spelling or pronouncing words right. If Jennings has a decent IQ, then he has a crappy work ethic and he should have gotten better grades to get into college. I’ll take dumb over lazy if he’s going to be a Blazer. So in my opinion, Jennings is either dumb or lazy.
by tominhawaii on Jun 23, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
that might be true
but its like people who hate on homeless people, If you can’t imagine some way that you yourself could end up there then you are just not being creative enough. He might be dumb, that is true, but I’m sure that a smart guy with immense basketball talent could just not care about school. Not to mention his age- imagine what the people around him have been telling him these past few years- you could be smart but that is offset by being a teenager.
perhaps he never had any money
If you’ve really struggled financially in your life I can understand why you would feel the need to get a big payday much sooner. I don’t know if thats true for jennings.
Or maybe he wanted to be able to play as much as he wanted
and not have his time with coaches dictated to him by NCAA rules, or have to go to classes when he’s not planning on getting a degree anyways. Was it a character flaw for KG, Dwight, Kobe, et al to go straight to the pros? It’s generally assumed that Bayless was better served this year by sitting on the bench with us this year than he would have been by going back to UA for another year. Why should it be any different for Jennings in Italy, even if the level of competition is lower? He got to play against better players in practice than he would have at UA, and focus completely on basketball for a year. Isn’t “getting paid” just tangential to that?
KG would have been better off going to college
He really needs to take an interpersonal relations class.
Rarity
Jermaine O’Neil, and Kobe like KG are not the standard of high schoolers coming out, there are alot of 1st and 2nd year collage players surrounded by hype that dont last past there rookie contracts.
I try to help with everything," Fernandez said. "If the coach says go rebound, I go rebound. I work for the team.
""If I'm playing this game to get media and attention, I shouldn't be here," Aldridge said. "I'm here to play basketball, and do what I can do to help this team win."
His stare became blank. It was apparent he was back in that place, on the Rose Garden's logo, picking up Aaron Brooks as the crowd nervously roared.
I am on record as favoring Collison
I would trade up aways for Holiday if he falls far enough,Jennings has talent but I dont think he fits and I wouldnt give more than Sergio and a pick for him.
by southern oregon on Jun 23, 2009 12:37 AM PDT reply actions
Not going to bite for either one
This is the rush folks get around draft day but I don’t see small rookie point guards contributing anything this next year and prefer a shooter who can be an assassin to spread the floor in the right spots.
Collison is a very good shooter
He’s a career 44% percent guy from 3, and the year before last he shot 53% from 3 when he had open looks. That is pretty much as good a shooter as you’ll ever find from deep in college. And he got his 3’s at UCLA the same way he’d get them here. He’s great in a methodical offense like ours, working off Roy’s penetration.
This was a VERY interesting post about Brandon Jennings
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-41-116/Minnesota-s-Massive-Point-Guard-Workout.html
There’s a lot of good stuff about the various rookie PGs, but especially Jennings. His skills are iffy, he doesn’t listen to the coaches, but when allowed to just play he went on to dominate all the other guards.
Sticking up for Travis Outlaw since 2008 and Steve Blake since two weeks ago.
That's the consensus from what I've read
From Chad Ford:
One scout, who claimed to have watched Jennings in person during “at least a dozen games” and “tons of practices” (the most of any person I spoke with), was particularly adamant. He felt strongly that Jennings was one of the two or three best prospects in the draft.
“I ask two questions about every prospect. First, do they have the talent to play in the NBA? Second, have they gotten better? I think Jennings gets two huge check marks on both accounts.
“First, Jennings is a crazy athlete. He’s as quick as anyone in the draft. No one is going to be able to stay in front of him. He explodes around the basket and he’s a clever passer when he wants to be. We saw all of that in high school and if you watched him enough in Europe, you saw it there too. Yeah, he needs to get stronger and work on some stuff. But the raw talent is totally there.”
OK, that’s talent. Now here’s the thing. What did he need to work on?
“Defense. He’s become a much better and more committed defender this year. Everyone who has watched him play would acknowledge that.
“Basketball IQ. The European game is a thinking game. He’s had to learn all sorts of things that most college kids aren’t confronted with. There’s no way you can argue his IQ hasn’t increased.
“Understanding the team concept. That’s what Europe is all about and Jennings has made great strides there. He’s not perfect, but he’s much better than when he came.
“Shooting. You can’t just look at his shooting numbers for the year. His shot is getting better. I don’t think it’s broken and he’s been taking a lot of shots.
“Maturity. Many four-year college players come overseas and can’t handle the dramatic change in lifestyle. They are home before Christmas. This kid stuck it out. He left his friends and his life behind. Things didn’t go his way with the team he chose. He wasn’t pampered. He felt disrespected. He didn’t complain. He showed up every day and worked his tail off. He kept getting better. What else do you want?
“In every area he’s gotten better. You can’t say the same thing about Jrue Holiday or Jonny Flynn or whoever you want to put up there. This kid’s learning curve has been dramatic. The numbers are just a part of the story.”
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jun 23, 2009 8:26 AM PDT up reply actions
If fit matters...
Jennings is a terrible fit for the Blazers.
-Nate McMillan will not let him “just play”.
He is best with the ball in his hands in the open court. (Is that even allowed in Portland?-kidding)
-He is not a great outside shooter
He has enough character flags to make one wonder. (I’m not referring to his playing overseas-I’m referring to the way he played in the McDonald’s All-American game and other plays—very brash and showy—as well as his statements about Rubio).
-He has been compared to Sebastian Telfair
I think Jennings is a very intriguing prospect…. for the Golden State Warriors or New York Knicks. I’ll be interested to see how he turns out.
I think the Telfair comparison is a pretty solid one
Although someday one of these Telfairs is gonna pan out…right?
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jun 23, 2009 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Best case: Tony Parker
says DraftExpress
by spencerbutte on Jun 23, 2009 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions
You should know by now to take stuff like that with a box of salt.
Afterall, didn’t your HS yearbook entry read:
Best case – Brad Pitt
Worst case – Pee Wee Herman
hakkaa päälle !
To be fair to Jennings
I don’t think I’ve seen a single Telfair comparison from any mainstream site (other than to list him as a “worst case” at DX, in which case Lou Williams would be a fair comparison to Jerryd and Channing is a fair comparison to LaMarcus). Basically every time that comparison is thrown around, it’s some anonymous poster on a board commenting, “OMG, BJ is the next Telfair, don’t draft him”.
A cursory search revealed a single dime article with one throwaway line about his HS numbers being similar to Bassy’s, but that appears to be the sum total of Telfair-Jennings comparisons from actual writers/scouts, and I’ll still trust traditional analysts more than random internet posters.
Jennings is a perfect fit for the Warriors, who will probably draft him.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Yeah...
The Telfair comparison was meant as a joke. I did see at DX or ESPN, can’t remember where, but I don’t think it’s particular good, just a bad sign for the Blazers.
I do believe he’s a bad fit for the Blazers, though.
There are better "fits" out there
but I’d say the differences between his “fit” and Bayless’s “fit” are largely academic.
What I do think is that both him and Jerryd are big enough talents to render “fit” largely meaningless.
For example, if I have a team with a dominant low post scorer and an SG whose one of the five best guys in the league at creating his own shot, but is only an above average shooter, the best PG “fit” would probably be a guy who can play defense and shoot from deep, maybe a Kirk Hinrich or Antonio Daniels from five years ago. But I just described the Spurs, and does anyone really believe that the Spurs would be better off with either of those guys instead of Tony Parker?
From a style of play perspective, I agree
From a developmental perspective, I disagree. In most situations, it’s better to have the player with more talent. Fit is of only marginal significance. However, I worry about developing a guy like Jennings on this Portland Trailblazer team. Granted, I know very little about Jennings—I’m just speculating—but a generic player that plays his best when allowed to “just play”—that guy is not going to develop into the best player he can be on the Blazers.
So, I should have prefaced that post by saying, “if this is true about Brandon Jennings,” it is a bad sign for him as a Portland Trailblazer.
I mean, there's just no way to come to a consensus here
it all just depends on how one ranks Bayless’s “readiness” compared to Jennings’s. I don’t think there’s a definitive answer to that question. I took the TH write up as less “he just needs a leash” and more “his talents translate to game settings, not drills”. It’s not like you can just run drills enough and you’ll get to be Steve Nash or Jason Kidd or even Sergio Rodriguez.
Certainly it seemed like Bayless played his best when he was free to do his thing, so it might just bode poorly for our ability to develop any PG with our team.
The only think I know about Jennings is . . .
from seeing him in the movie “Gunnin’ for that #1 Spot.” But I felt like he had ball-handling skills beyond anything I had seen from anybody else, ever. He didn’t look like a basketball player — he looked like a Brazilian soccer player, not just handling the ball but doing a samba with it. He looked unstoppable, frankly.
I trust KP to decide whether Jennings is his guy or not, but I feel like he could be a revolutionary player.
Sticking up for Travis Outlaw since 2008 and Steve Blake since two weeks ago.
I've said it before and I'll say it again
The Blazers do not need another rookie point guard. They need a point guard who is better than Steve Blake is now; not a point guard who will be better than Blake three years from now.
I don't mind Rubio
I just mind giving anything up to get him on the Blazers or waiting 3 years for him to develop on the Blazers. He might be okay on another team that has time to wait for him.
Agree...in fact I'll take it one step farther and say they don't need any rookies, period
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jun 23, 2009 8:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Don't they still kick balls up into the top row of the stands and make the rooks go get them, or was that just a Rasheed/Bonzi thing?
Man those guys were good teammates.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jun 23, 2009 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions
also throwing balls at teammates
good times. miss those guys.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jun 23, 2009 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Nah
I read somewhere that most the new Blazers aren’t really into hazing. I don’t mind making them get donuts or getting them wet, anything beyond that is harassment in my book.
the '74-75 Blazer vets
threw dodge-basketballs at Bill Walton when the coaches weren’t around. But “Dollar” had it coming back then
Blair
he’s a beast, and would be the perfect complimentary PF to backup LMA
Forget the Barkley comparisons, DeJuan is a young Larry Johnson
Quote from Egger's mock draft
"Blair has a special skill," Bilas said. "He can go get the ball, and that has value. He’s a beast of a rebounder, especially at the offensive end. He’ll make open shots, and he has the best shot fake in the draft. Defenders go for it."
Unlike Charles Barkley and Larry Johnson, DeJuan Blair doesn't have a face-up game.
I love Blair as a tenacious rebounder and efficient scorer in the paint; yet, he’s dissimilar to more refined offensive players like Barkley and Johnson, who could both stroke it from mid-range and beyond the arc.
Truthfully, Paul Millsap still strikes me as the best overall comparison for Blair — as they’re both undersized, yet lengthy defenders and rebounders who manage to get the most out of their inherent abilities — which is a good thing.
I REALLY don't understand the LJ comparison
except for his first two years, he was a largely mediocre rebounder who played more on the perimeter as a decent, if not lights-out shooter. Blair didn’t attempt a single three pointer last year. I’m not sure why anyone would compare him to a guy who spent a lot of time on the perimeter as an NBA player.
Grandmama played under the glass until his knees were shot
then he stayed out on the 3-point line after that. – Elgin
Without you out there, we're nowhere here
I feel that way about all the other rookie PGs
Ricky would be worth the wait, and it wouldn’t take that long. Sure, he’s only 18, but how many of the college PGs, even the seniors like Lawson, have played in the Olympics and against grown men in their last 12 months?
answer: Patty Mills and Rubio
I’d much rather trade up for Ricky than Curry. If KP’s going to make the kind of sacrifice that will moves him up to grab one of the top 5 picks, then he’d better select the player with the most upside
Kahn and Minnesota will select Rubio if he falls to 6. The Wolve’s GM is trying to package Miller (etc) and get another high draft choice to select both Thabeet and Ricky. (Good luck with that idea, David)
The only downside to acquiring Ricky I see is that KP will have to take Etan Thomas’ contract if he moves up to #5. That would effectively kill the rest of the FA offseason by sucking up the cap-space and install Thomas as the de-facto backup to LMA (not much better than Ruffin, talent-wise) This is why I’d prefer KP deal with NJ for the 11th pick, select DeJuan “Larry Johnson clone” Blair and then make the Hinrich deal
Like I said yesterday
When Paul Allen told KP to “go for it” the other day, it should’ve effectively ended the discussion on rookie PGs not named Rubio being selected by Portland in this year’s draft. I know Dave’s got to do his due diligence and cover all the bases re: these prospects, but they’ll both be playing on other NBA teams, next season.
The only scenario I could see where KP adds Jennings/Collison/Lawson (et al) is if he uses Bayless to trade up and select Rubio, then “maybe” he’d draft another rookie PG to fill out the bottom of the roster for “injury insurance”. Very doubtful, though, as I suspect Nate would rather have a veteran PG in that role, if “anyone” is needed at all to back up a hypothetical Blake and Rubio PG combo
I read a really good article from Chad Ford on Jennings, unfortunately it req Insider
But here’s a teaser, the quote is from Nenad Trajkovic who is according to Ford
sort of a legend in Europe when it comes to developing young players. He spent years in Serbia preparing guys all the way back to the Vlade Divac years. He’s been hired by teams around the world to work with some of the top young talent in the world. He was hired by Jennings’ team midseason as a lead assistant and spent every day with Jennings working on his game.
Jennings would practice up to four hours a day, sometimes longer with Trajkovic. A few hours were spent each day learning the offensive and defensive schemes. The rest was focused on fundamental development — ballhandling, shooting, basketball philosophy.
No one, I would submit, knows Jennings better
“I promise you. If you brought LeBron James over from high school straight to Europe, we would have messed him up,” Trajkovic said. “We demand different things. It is not enough to do something. You must do it correctly. Everyone who comes, young or old, from America, has to adjust. He was able to do it better than most I have seen. One more year in Europe, and he would be a star. I don’t know if the NBA feels the same way.”
Jennings should find out soon. His agent, Bill Duffy, said Jennings will begin team workouts this week. He’s targeting four teams at the moment: the Kings (No. 4), Wizards (No. 5), Wolves (No. 6), Warriors (No. 7) and Knicks (No. 8). If Jennings doesn’t get the positive feedback he’s looking for, he’ll backfill with a few more later lottery teams like the Bucks, Pacers and Suns.
If just one GM in the top 10 falls in love, Jennings will look like a genius. He skipped the college basketball factory, earned millions of dollars and still found his way into the lottery. If he falls, he may close the door to other prospects searching to do the same thing.
That’s a lot of pressure and responsibility for a 19-year-old. But if Jennings handles things as well as he did in Europe, he may be more prophet than fool.
Blazer Fan
My counting must be off
“He’s targeting four teams at the moment: the Kings (No. 4), Wizards (No. 5), Wolves (No. 6), Warriors (No. 7) and Knicks (No. 8).”
Someone needs to edit his stuff.
The Princess of Blazersedge
haha other than that it was a really really good article, which is why I'm quoting it so extensively
probably close to too much so. but if you have insider you should check out the article, it really changed my perspective on jennings after hearing about his bad workouts.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jun 23, 2009 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah just nitpicking
A lot of people make fun of Chad Ford, but I think he usually does a pretty good job.
The Princess of Blazersedge
He probably wasn't counting the Kings as a "team."
(Just kidding.)
Sticking up for Travis Outlaw since 2008 and Steve Blake since two weeks ago.
It's like celebrity quotes
A source close to Celebrity A said, “Celebrity A yada yada yada rehab.”
The Princess of Blazersedge
neither make sense
right now we have 3 point guards unless we get rid of blake for a veteran point for bayless to play behind all we really need is maybe a SF and a back up PF
This draft is intereting
there are so many interesting guards and prospects that there’s plenty of conversation, but drafting a young point guard is the last thing i want to blazers to do right now, unless they trade up to get a premium talent. otherwise it feels like we’re making an effort to draft guys that are already on our team, like dave said about jennings, we already have a project point guard, so this draft isn’t really for us. I would prefer is we stay away from guards and draft a front court guy or a scoring euro who we can stash for a few years. Nate has been doing too much teaching and not enough coaching, that should change soon
Jennings has a cancerous attitude
which is obviously a road the blazers don’t need to go back down.
Cocky is not the same as "cancerous"
I’m not convinced he’s a bad-influence guy. But it’s possible he would be hard to coach and drive Nate crazy. Still, I think he’s a great prospect in terms of natural talent.
Sticking up for Travis Outlaw since 2008 and Steve Blake since two weeks ago.
Drafting a point guard with a late pick could be fine.
With Sergio probably leaving, we’ll need a third string point guard. Nothing wrong with your third string point guard being a rookie with limited potential.
We could have had Jefferson at the trade deadline.
He wasn’t an option Portland was interested in.
hakkaa päälle !
Collison is a perfect 3rd G
I can see him being taken and stashed as 3rd PG and then slide over to the backup when Blake/Kidd/vet gets a little too long in the tooth in a few years.
Also,
STAY AS FAR AWAY FROM JENNINGS AS YOU CAN!!
http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2009/6/22/921029/christmas-tree-the-psych-test
Christmas Tree The Psych Test?: Sometimes you hear a story that just too silly to believe, but three league sources have repeated this scenario so it has to be stated – why is Brandon Jennings taking a tumble? Brandon has absolutely killed it in workouts. Two team sources who he worked out for said the kid is an amazing talent. The problem is he’s got some red flags, and the biggest appears to be that he “Christmas Tree’d” the psychological test. Most teams administer a test to determine if they are drafting a kid with significant problems, or kids that have competitive issues in order to determine if they can handle the rigors of professional life in the NBA. Most teams put a lot of weight behind the psych testing; some put a little, some don’t consider it at all. It turns out Jennings may have answered all the questions the same, as one executive said “blowing off the test”, and as you can imagine teams that value that information were not overly pleased. Two teams in the top 6 immediately removed Brandon from consideration upon hearing that news and word is unless Minnesota takes him at #6, he could take a wicked tumble on draft day.
I can understand not doing well on the SAT, but for the most plart these psych tests are more of
“What would you do in this situation? Or this one?”
Not like
analogous: synonymous as penchant: ?
This is job interview for a multi million dollar position and he blows it off like so? There is no way KP would ever even think of this guy as he has no leadership, BBIQ, or most importantly winning attitude.
Mark my words, Jennings will be an exciting player but may never even make it into the playoffs as an important part of his team.
Collegiate stats:
NCAA Arizona:
Jerryd Bayless: 19.7pts, 4.0 asts, 3to
NAIA Wisconsin-Stevens Point
Terry Porter: 19.7pts, 4.3 asts, 2.33to
my first thought as well
sounds like Nellies kinda guy
Collegiate stats:
NCAA Arizona:
Jerryd Bayless: 19.7pts, 4.0 asts, 3to
NAIA Wisconsin-Stevens Point
Terry Porter: 19.7pts, 4.3 asts, 2.33to
by SpyderRyder on Jun 23, 2009 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Too Raw
The Blazers don’t need to draft a guy like Jennings. He’s too raw to contribute right now. They need some other type of help, what about Bayless? He’s more of a scoring point but he should be developed.
As for Collison? He’s good but I question his NBA ready ability.
I don’t like the idea of wasting a draft pick on a smaller guard when neither are going to contribute more than the guys we currently have on the roster.
"Oh yeah? You can Derelique my balls."
"I can Shavlick my own balls."
JENNINGS
Jenning’s is the man. Look him up at the Jordan Classic on youtube and see for yourself.
please see
http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2009/6/22/921029/christmas-tree-the-psych-test
You only get him if you want a flashy PG not to win.
I would rather have a parade down Broadway than a flashy PG.
Collegiate stats:
NCAA Arizona:
Jerryd Bayless: 19.7pts, 4.0 asts, 3to
NAIA Wisconsin-Stevens Point
Terry Porter: 19.7pts, 4.3 asts, 2.33to
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