To help aquire free agents we need to end the Blazer myth...
by Titlein2011 on Jun 20, 2009 1:29 AM PDT
44 comments
We are not a small market team. Average yes, but 23rd in the US is not small. Especially considering we are a 1 team town with no other NBA options within 10 hours driving.
We are a larger market than Cleveland, San Antonio, Sacramento, OKC the list goes on. We need to stop perpetuating negativity about the market the team we support comes from. This is not 1 persons faux pau, I hear Blazer fans say it all the time. If we ever want to be considered something other than a small market team (which wouldn't hurt for aquiring players) than at least the fans of that team need to quit perpetuating the myth.
Portland is a great place to be, it's a middle market with no other competing sports options creating a rabid fan base. The Blazers have a phenomenal coach, GM, and one of the wealthiest owners in sports. Not only that Nike and Addidas US headquarters are located in Portland. Start a chain letter, tell a friend, email a NBA free agent. This is the Summer to break the myth!
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Portland Timbers, MLS 2011!!!!!!!
"There are a few teams you have to watch out for in the fourth quarter."
"Yeah, but Portland definitely is not one of them."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters at the end of the third quarter with the Hornets leading 74-59. Portland later ends up winning 97-89.
"They don't mind him shooting that shot at all. Rudy Fernandez is not that great of a 3pt shooter."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters right after a Rudy Fernandez missed 3pter. Rudy Fernandez finished the game with three 3pters on six attempts.
by Tofu Anonymous on Jun 20, 2009 2:03 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
No one cares about actual numbers
Always called Big market = NY, Chicago, LA, Phili
Wouldn’t be called small market = Phoenix, Houston, Dallas, Bay Area, San Antonio, Detroit
Every other team could be called small market. Basically, the only teams called big market are top 10 or so in population. We also don’t have weather going for us. Players would rather live in Miami than Portland. We aren’t a free agent destination.
Also, San Antonio is one of the largest cities in the U.S. #7 according to Wiki
"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"
by Magnum on Jun 20, 2009 2:43 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
But!!! Portland does rate amongst their wives opinions, ...AND THAT matters...
giggle… kk I’m out.
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
by faith on Jun 20, 2009 8:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't forget state income tax...
that 9% adds up, especially compared to states that don’t have one.
I agree with the OP in one sense though. Statistically, Portland is a medium sized sports market. But that is offset by our small-town mentality and small-town leadership.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Jun 20, 2009 8:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm here in SA
it’s complicated. SA is like the 28th- 30th largest metro area, but 7th largest city because San Antonio annexes all the would-be suburbs. So you don’t have any satellite cities, you just have mas san antonio. So all the little suburbs like Castle Hills, Alamo Heights, Sonterra, Leon Valley, etc, they are all independent municipalities, but they are all part of the city of san antonio.
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
by HurraKane212 on Jun 20, 2009 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Portland is the same...
Beaverton, Hilsboro, Gresham, Tualatin, Tigard, Lake Oswego, West Linn…all considered the “Portland Metropolitan Area”.
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."
by GonzoFan on Jun 21, 2009 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We just don't get credit for it in the population figures...
…like SA does.
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."
by GonzoFan on Jun 21, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, the labels are applied by the mainstream media and advertizers
It really doesn’t matter to anyone else how WE perceive Portland.
"Just kidding"
by CatMan2 on Jun 20, 2009 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It matters to the advertisers who make the difference
between small market revenue and large market revenue.
by lee3022 on Jun 21, 2009 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is there a meteorologist who can confirm or deny the myth of constant rain in the audience?
by Norsktroll on Jun 20, 2009 8:58 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I am not a meteorologist
but I looked out the window…..it rains
"You're welcome friend
I love you."
- Tom "Dragline" inHawaii
by 92wastheyear on Jun 20, 2009 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Portlanders perpetuate this myth to keep would-be Cali-ians off their kilter. But what will the stats – based on data collected on monthly rainfall between 1961-1990 – reveal
Portland averages 36-43 in. per year. How many NBA cities equal or exceed this? 11-13 (Cleveland and Chicago are right up close there so it is tough to call). And this does not include Seattle or Kansas City, which are both wetter. So first, it is not the wetter on average. But what about the issue of “constant rain”? Well, if we are talking constant annual rain, it is a myth. The standard deviation across the monthly percipitation totals for Portland is 1.82, which is the third highest standard deviation amongst the 14 wettest NBA cities. What this translate to is that there are about 3.5 inches of rain on average during summer (July, August, September), and this is the least amount of rain for any of these cities.
On the other side, what Portland does have is the most cold rain (or the most rain during the cold). It isn’t even a contest, almost 17inches of rain fall from November through January.
In conclusion, if weather was a main concern, I would Portland at least ranks better than New Orleans (should change its name to the most constantly rainy NBA city), New York, Houston, Charlotte (wetter, but maybe not worse weather per se), Boston, Philly, DC, Indianapolis, and Chicago & Cleveland are right there. Additionally, Miami, Atlanta, and Orlando have a lot more rain than Portland, but I’d be a fool to say that made the weather worse.
"Slum dunk? You just go to the rim, and crush.. crush the ball in the rim."
- Nic Batum
by idoltime on Jun 20, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
this pretty picture disagrees with me - based on the number of days with measurable Precipitation
"Slum dunk? You just go to the rim, and crush.. crush the ball in the rim."
- Nic Batum
by idoltime on Jun 20, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I write letters to people all the time
telling them how cold, rainy, foggy, and allergy ridden this town is;
in the summer.I still love it but I’m not a playboy millionaire BB star.
by oregonslee on Jun 20, 2009 9:33 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed on the weather, but the strongest negative for free agents is income tax.
The only thing about income tax is that there are less and less states with teams that do not have income tax. As far as the weather goes, yes it rains, but we have 5-6 months of decent weather. From the way it’s described you would think the Portland area was used for the set Twilight and their are vampires running around every where, oh wait…
At least we don’t freeze to death over the winter like a lot of other areas.
by Titlein2011 on Jun 20, 2009 10:09 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I would like to retain my dude card, and just recieve a warning for my Twilight ref.
by Titlein2011 on Jun 20, 2009 10:11 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
lol
I didn’t know anything about the movie or book(s), and just rented the DVD for my wife and I to watch recently. It was entertaining, but I guess I can see the appeal for teenage girls.
"Just kidding"
by CatMan2 on Jun 20, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i love twilight
i have never seen it or read th book, but i love hs girls and hs girls love twilight
fire nate before its too late
by pipgras on Jun 20, 2009 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I like this myth!
It’s like that other myth where the really small dude kills the big giant dude or whatever. But seriously, I think this perception contributes to a sense of camaraderie among Blazer fans. And besides, when I think of Portland as a small market, I am mainly comparing it with LA or…LA.
by Samsara on Jun 20, 2009 11:14 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Try living in MN, MI, OH, IL, NY, MA, NJ for a winter and then let's talk
Portland’s winter weather may not be wonderfully sunny, but it beats the heck out of places that are cold and monochromatic (grey, brown, white) for six months out to the year.
Why do you think so many ex-players come back to Portland?
I lived in upstate New York for one winter: 63 consecutive days when the high temperature was below freezing. I came home and quit complaining about the weather.
by upper left corner on Jun 20, 2009 11:14 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
this seems to disagree with you
It would probably be more interesting to look at the relative economies of these cities rather than just the population, but if you went by that Portland has a much smaller economy than the major markets. I think the myth that needs to be broken is that small markets cant compete.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
by jonestr on Jun 20, 2009 11:27 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
even that list
Still puts us above Indianapolis, Charlotte, Salt Lake, San Antonio, Milwaukie, Memphis, New Orleans, and Oklahoma City as well as “prospective” NBA cities like Kansas City and Las Vegas. Still seems that it is more accurate to call us a medium market city as opposed to a small market city – regardless of how much massively bigger the large market cities look like.
"Slum dunk? You just go to the rim, and crush.. crush the ball in the rim."
- Nic Batum
by idoltime on Jun 20, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Indianapolis is
a larger market on this list, but in a 30 team league how do you argue that we are middle market when there are well less than 15 teams behind us?
Again, economic size would be a much better indicator than just population
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
by jonestr on Jun 20, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
On the source list here, Portland seems to come up on the other side.
I would say this goes to middle market because that would indicate something in the middle of the distribution. Now, if we only take the 30 NBA cities than Portland being at 23rd is in the bottom bin of ten cities. You could also say that our placement on this list would be worse before the OKC joined the league.
However, I think it should be more than clear than in terms of cities overall that portland could not possibly be called small market — even if you cut out the “no market” areas at the end of the list.
And your points about this indicator not being wholly indicative is well taken.
"Slum dunk? You just go to the rim, and crush.. crush the ball in the rim."
- Nic Batum
by idoltime on Jun 20, 2009 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but in the NBA
you only have the option of playing in the markets with NBA teams (an obvious point) We could always just expand or contract the cities in comparison so that Portland seems like a big or small market, but for the NBA the comparisons are fixed and Portland lies on the small side of market size relative to population.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
by jonestr on Jun 20, 2009 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Portland has the rep of having bad weather
But our rep of being the “whitest major city in America” doesn’t help when it comes to being an attractive destination for free agents. A few months ago the Oregonian asked the players what they didn’t like about Portland and a bunch mentioned the rain. But at least one player — I think it was Greg — mentioned the lack of diversity. I bet this affects perceptions at least as much as market size.
by Corvid on Jun 20, 2009 12:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
There's diversity to spare
maybe he’s really trying to say soomething else. Maybe the diversity that exists doesn’t match the midwest or his taste.
by oregonslee on Jun 20, 2009 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's beyond whether Portland is "diverse"
relative to the US as a whole, but more due to the fact that the vast number of NBA players come from either inner cities or the south: areas of the country that have a far greater proportion of minorities (specifically African-Americans) than Portland. For example, Winston-Salem (home of CP3 and Josh Howard) is 37% African-American, Portland is less than 8%. Baltimore/DC, home of Michael Beasley, Kevin Durant, and Carmelo Anthony, is over 50% African-American.
It’s not that Portland is overwhelmingly white compared to the US as a whole (which includes the basically 100% white corn belt), but it’s overwhelmingly white compared to where most NBA players grew up.
by Royster on Jun 20, 2009 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was going to mention
That the only FAs who seem to have been interested in Portland in recent memory are Joel Przybilla and Steve Blake.
Hopefully, Brandon and Nate will help attract some FAs who want to win rather than get paid and soak up the sun
by two4larue on Jun 20, 2009 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing we say is going to change the opinions of NBA players.
Certified blazer.fangirl
by Roybot on Jun 20, 2009 12:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
We would need the help of a hip-hop artist
"Slum dunk? You just go to the rim, and crush.. crush the ball in the rim."
- Nic Batum
by idoltime on Jun 20, 2009 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Big city advantages?
I suppose you’d get to do more commercials for local car dealerships, etc. On the flip side, stars are made deep in the playoffs. Plus, there’s extra playoff salary at stake. If $$$ is the concern, I suspect you’d be better served going to a serious playoff team with a rabid fan base, regardless of city size.
When the Celts sucked, I don’t remember them being on ESPN/TNT more than the required amount.
More people know Lamar Odom than Rudy Gay…
by Engineering Problem on Jun 20, 2009 12:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
i agree with most of your points...
but have you been talk to mike rice and canzano? “The Blazers have a phenomenal coach”-you must be talking about Dean Demopoulos, Monty Williams, Maurice Lucas, Joe Prunty, or Bob Medina
fire nate before its too late
by pipgras on Jun 20, 2009 6:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Or Nate McMillan. Don't hate.
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."
by GonzoFan on Jun 21, 2009 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
The coach who brought defensive focus to the Olympic gold medal team has brought Portland up faster and further than nearly any previous coach in NBA history and the ceiling is not yet reached.
Unless you long for the ugly Whittset era we came out of, I believe this coach is the right coach for this team and KP has stated this many times.
by lee3022 on Jun 21, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe
but hes not the coach that will lead us to a championship. just wait 2-3 years until his bad coaching late in games has lead to a few playoff losses then tell me im wrong again. kp knows what he needs and wont resign nate after next year. just wait and see the come back an give your sorrys to me after its done.
fire nate before its too late
by pipgras on Jun 22, 2009 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We are one of the smallest markets...
…in the NBA, if not the country. Either way it doesn’t matter. We have shown in the past not to have issues drawing free agents if we are winning. Pretty much like every other team. Look at NY the last few years. I read countless articles around the trade deadlines that players DREADED being dealt to NYC. The only types who are immune to this are the mega-stars (LeBron) because wherever they go the team automatically becomes attractive to other players and free agents.
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."
by GonzoFan on Jun 21, 2009 12:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
List of United States cities by population
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population
Portland is #30, OKC #31.
Biggest suprise for me is Atlanta coming in at #33. I thought it would be top 10.
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."
by GonzoFan on Jun 21, 2009 12:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps the best measurement is revenue to the team
The list for December 2008 by Forbes shows 7 teams between $80-99M in revenue, 11 teams between $100-119M in revenue, 3 teams between $120-139M in revenue, 5 teams between $140-159M in revenue, 2 teams between $160-180M in revenue, 1 teams between $180-199M in revenue and 1 teams between $200-220 in revenue.
Using these standard cutoffs, New York and LAL clearly qualify for very large market, Chicago Detroit and Cleveland Houston and Dallas qualify for large market, Phoenix, Boston, San Antonio, Toronto and Miami qualify for mid market, Philadelphia, Utah, Washington, Sacramento Orlando, Golden State, Denver, Portland, Atlanta, Indiana and Minnesota would be grouped in the high-small market and OKC, LAC, New Jersey, Memphis, New Orleans, Charlotte and Milwaukee are in the low-small market group.
The revenue of New York at 208 million does not even include the cable company’s associated revenue or MSG all owned by the same entity. They can pay luxury tax forever and not hurt. But as soon as you drop down below mid market teams (Miami) more often than not teams lose money or make money from the luxury tax not paid and received.
You can argue semantics all day but Portland at $114M in revenue is not in the same class as those teams earning more than 30% of the salary cap more than Portland (Miami and above) simply can afford to do more.
These figures are from 2007-2008 and last year was likely worst for the mid market teams and below. With the projected drop in luxury tax levels many teams must bail on player salaries to stay afloat. Portland is on the rise market-wise but with the greater-than-national-average unemployment in Oregon that may affect Portland as well.
by lee3022 on Jun 21, 2009 3:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It's numbers like that that are the reason the NBA needs to scrap
the current form of revenue sharing. It essentially only works right now if Los Angeles and NY are about $20-30 million into tax territory, and every “small” market team is below it. Baseball’s system of taxation works mainly because teams are just resigned to the Yankees, Mets, and Red Sox giving them a ton of revenue every year. If those teams were to all of a sudden cut back on spending, even with a miniscule payroll, teams like KC and Pittsburgh would struggle to make ends meet. Essentially any system with a luxury tax as the primary form of revenue sharing is equivalent to the smaller market owners conceding a humongous advantage to the large market owners in the form of an increased payroll.
Look at the NFL. Almost all of the CBA negotiation conflict there has been primarily between owners of big market teams and owners of small market teams, not between players and owners. Without a few key high profit franchises (Steelers, Giants, etc.) willing to compromise and give a more set percentage of revenue in revenue sharing, the NFL would never have achieved the parity that it so clearly desires. Stern is doing his best to frame the current negotiations as a conflict between players and owners, when it should actually be a conflict between owners.
When us and the Lakers can have nearly identical payrolls for the season, but a $50 million gap in profit, that’s just not a business model suited to long term competitiveness.
by Royster on Jun 21, 2009 6:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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