Forget About Steph Curry
I'd like to take a short break from a longer post I'm working on for tomorrow to briefly shoot down the Stephen Curry talk.
Curry makes all sorts of sense for the Blazers... last year. I'm sure KP loves Curry's game, loves his family background and loves his personality. KP probably sees Curry as an undervalued asset and I wouldn't be surprised at all if Curry was very high on KP's board this year.
But as many of you have pointed out, Curry and Jerryd Bayless overlap. They overlap a lot; Curry is essentially Jerryd Bayless minus the creatine and with a more proven stroke.
I probably sound like a broken record but it bears repeating whenever these rumors pop up: If anyone is higher on Bayless than me, it's KP. KP was a tough, kind of awkward interview... he left me fumbling with his non-answers and maybe wasn't in the best of moods that morning. But for the 3 or 4 minutes we talked Bayless it was like Cheech and Chong talking herb: unashamedly enthusiastic.
I believe Bayless would be #2 on Kevin Pritchard's draft board this year. No lower than #3. I can make an argument that Rubio might be in that #2 spot as well but I can't make a definitive argument for anyone else given Pritchard's statements about how high Bayless ranked on his board last year and the relative quality of that draft compared to this one.
So if KP is really going to part with Bayless, he does it in a package for a big, big name, probably a veteran. You can't trade him for any draft pick except Griffin and probably Rubio. Neither one of those guys is realistically available to the Blazers, short of a blockbuster trade, because the teams drafting in that spot are going to want a lot more than Bayless for their pick. That's how it goes.
So to land Curry, what you would have to see is 2 trades: one to send Bayless out for a big name to make it worth it to KP and another to land a spot in the back half of the lottery to draft Curry.
(You could perhaps find a team in the back half of the lottery that also had a big name that intrigued you but if you're taking both of those assets off of them you're going to be giving up even more in return. Does that sound like the kind of "roster tweaking" Pritchard has talked about recently? Or does that sound more like an overhaul? More to the point: do you really want to swap parts with a lottery team?)
Complicating the matter even further, Steve Blake just had shoulder surgery so he's almost certainly locked in to the Blazers through the draft. Teams simply don't like to trade for damaged goods. Can the Blazers really make two big draft day trades without including Blake? Not impossible. But very unlikely.
A way more likely scenario: Pritchard simply drafts Lawson, particularly if reports of his freefall are to be believed and he's available at 24. What makes more sense: complement the backup point guard you believe is the #2 or #3 talent in this year's draft with another point guard that possesses a different skill set, or give up on and trade away that highly valued point guard to bring back a similar point guard, likely at significant cost to your current roster?
To boil it down: Getting Steph Curry probably doesn't happen without 2 trades and significant roster turnover. Barring a major freefall on draft night (all the way out of the lottery), getting Steph Curry simply doesn't happen.
-- Ben (benjamin.golliver@gmail.com)
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Thanks Ben
I didn’t give it much attention. Not gonna happen.
by Sabonis4Ever on Jun 2, 2009 5:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The chances are very slim
The only way I see it happening is if the Knicks who like Curry a lot value Sergio high enough that they are willing to give up their #8 for him (absorbed via trade exception), $2-3 million in cash to make up for his salary, our #24, #32/#38 (once NY own), and maybe another future pick. That’s not very realistic, since D’Antoni values guards who can push the tempo AND make shots. It might become much more realistic if the Blazers were willing to take back the last two years of Jarred Jeffries contract, which is one year too long for the Knicks’ 2010 plans. Jeffries would even be semi-useful for the Blazers for his ability to guard 2-3 positions effectively despite his poor offensive skills.
But, and this is a big one, the difference in salary would kill $5 million of the ca. $6.7 million in cap space that could be penciled in for other free agent acquisitions. If that leaves the Blazers at the end of the summer with Blake, Bayless, Curry or other draft pick #8, Jeffries, and some minimum salary free agents and a second round pick or so, it’s not really an ideal outcome.
And so I doubt it will happen, when players like Jennings and Lawson could be dropping, and players like Collison, Mills and Beaubois could be available anyway at #24 to fill a third point guard spot.
by Norsktroll on Jun 2, 2009 6:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
With Curry shoring up the PG spot,
perhaps cap space isn’t so important to us. I’m one who thinks we’re set at the small forward position.
I think D’Antoni would love Sergio if only he would shoot from distance better. Same with Bayles, if only he could shoot at all. They both kind of fit his style.
Brandon Roy just destroyed everything in his path. There's your rational analysis -- Dave
Also: COMCAST SUCKS!
by TwoDeep on Jun 2, 2009 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im glad to hear this rumor
Because that means it has a 99.9% chance of not happening. And I’m okay with that. Now, if the Rumor was about us trading for Conley or Rubio, then I would be sad because I’d like either of those to happen.
by biggfish02 on Jun 2, 2009 6:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The Blazers took Curry out to dinner in Chicago
That stettles it, they aren’t interested in Steph. At all. It’s just a smokescreen
(last year they were sneaky quiet re: any interest in Bayless)
by two4larue on Jun 2, 2009 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it makes me happy
that KP is huge on Bayless. right on. but brought up in a different recent post is the question of how Nate sees things, and whether there is a disconnect between KP’s vision and Nate’s concerning point guards. basically, is Nate as big on Bayless as KP is? certainly KP is in charge when it comes to trading and signing, but Nate is in charge of PT.
"So, then, I was like, it'd be really dirty if I put up 42. So I did!" -Brandon Roy, post-game comments after game 2 of the first round of the 2009 NBA Playoffs
by 5212872 on Jun 2, 2009 6:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Mixed signals
I kinda of started this debate awhile ago, so I suppose I should chime in
There “seemed” to be a disconnect between the drafting of Sergio to play on a McMillian-coached team. Maybe the thinking was the team needed a PG who could push the tempo coming off the bench? Who knows how much Nate was consulted in this draft decision? Maybe KP and his staff thought Sergio would grow into his body and the coaching staff could refine his game and after a few years he could be a more-complete PG who could defend well enough and run the team to Nate’s satisfaction? Whatever the thinking was on draft day, we now know (with 20-20 hindsight) how it turned out.
Nate won the “tempo war” with Sergio
How this argument can be extended now to Bayless is beyond me, I really don’t see the parallel. Certainly, McMillain is tough on rookie PGs. He won’t let them play much until they can be “trusted” to run the offense and not turn the ball over. Bayless was over his skis early in the year, but he got his act together during the games when Blake was out and played the 3rd year pro Sergio to a virtual standstill during that 14 game stretch. After Blake was healthy Bayless went back to the bench and perhaps that is why some might have suspected Nate is “down” on Jerryd? The “point” was the team was in a battle for playoff positioning and Nate wanted a reserve PG who he could trust, and Sergio had years of experience in the system.
If folks don’t like how Nate slows the game down and think he should be replaced I can understand their frustration even though I consider it the height of futility to “fight city hall” re: McMillian’s future in Portland) But please, don’t “project” your anger at Nate and morph it into a wacky take that he’ll “mishandle” Bayless just like he “mishandled” Sergio. There’s no “rift” between Nate and KP re: playing style. Heck, KP came from San Antonio, he knows how coach Pop runs an offense and there’s not a huge difference between the Spurs and Blazers in that regard. Portland’s players just need to get their defensive cohesiveness and overall toughness up to the level that San Antonio has been playing for years, then they’ll have playoff success
Bayless can be a part of that improved team defense. But I think it’s clear that Sergio isn’t in those plans
by two4larue on Jun 3, 2009 12:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I also feel too much was made of Nate being hard on Bayless and Rookie pgs
Nate had no problem playing three other rookies significant minutes in Oden, Batum and Fernandez. With that inexperience at other key positions it would have been very problematic and risky to play any inexperienced pg significant minutes. I think Bayless was a bit of a victim of circumstances by being on such a young team. The personnel makeup would dictate most coaches to play the steadying hand of Blake the bulk of the minutes and to see again what value Sergio had and reward him a bit for working hard this last off season and showing a little improvement. I feel that this next year it will be time to thrust Bayless more into the spotlight and start to see what we have. Hopefully as the team improves with age we will see the added luxury of being able to sacrifice a little consistancy at the point in order to have Bayless learn a little on the fly. Look for Nate to play Bayless more because we can not because of any trust issue. Remember Nate played Seabass, Jack and Sergio significant minutes early on in their careers at the point. Too me the Nate hates any point not named Blake is a non issue.
by FlyinSouth on Jun 3, 2009 1:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bayless a victim of circumstance...
or a fortune of circumstance. Yes Bayless played sparingly last season which might indicate he was a “victim”. However, he is also on a young winning team. Once he gets his minutes, he will be very “fortunate” to have been drafted by this team as opposed to a Charlotte or Minnesota. He is fortunate because he is surrounded by winners and winning is contagious (just ask Rondo). So yes short-term Bayless fell into unfortunate circumstance but long term he knows that he is one lucky victim of circumstance.
by NWfan on Jun 3, 2009 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think people over analyze too much.
For example on the issues of tempo and PG’s, so many folks chime in with Nate likes this or only likes his PG’s to be this. I think you all are missing what is really at play.
I would argue that what Nate likes is good, crisp execution and efficient play. Controlling the tempo is not the same as wanting to play at a slow tempo. I believe that one of the primary reasons Portland’s tempo seems slow is that Nate understands the team has to learn how to walk before it can run. Once they have shown they can execute at a slower pace, he can then work on them learning how to push the pace without surrendering any of the efficiency gained from executing at the slower pace. Evidence of this was Nate’s increasing encouragement to his team to push the ball up the second half of the season, when they were executing their offense very well.
I also think this is why Nate likes Steve Blake as his PG. Blake understands exactly what Nate wants to see from his team and makes it his goal to achieve what Nate wants. In otherwords, Blake tailor’s his game to that of his coach, rather than playing his way and trying to show the coach what he can do. The ability to do that should not be underrated, ever though it is usually overlooked.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Jun 3, 2009 8:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Curry and Jerryd Bayless overlap
As much as I’d like to see Bayless become the PG of the future, his shooting would have to dramatically improve. Perhaps last year was just nerves or loss of confidence, and while he may shoot great in practice, only playing time will show whether or not he can hit his shots. Curry, I expect, will be able to hit many shots; time will also tell with him. But when BROY has or needs the ball in his hands, the PG needs to be a shooter and/or a very effective passer. That sounds more to me like Blake or Curry than Bayless.
That puts Bayless as the “energy guy” off the bench for limited minutes.
by kacee on Jun 2, 2009 6:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Curry and Bayless don't overlap NEAR as much as Curry and Rudy overlap
I get the playing time conflict but that would occur regardless of any guard we could draft this year if you don’t lose bayless in the process.
Curry is Rudy with less athleticism and a slightly lower IQ (although that part will improve in him with time). He doesn’t penetrate, he doesn’t play defense, he is a volume shooter. He’s a GREAT college shooter and may be an underrated passer but he doesn’t have the best handle in the world and has difficulty running a team’s offense (look at the difference in the last 2 years on his Davidson team, the year before last he had a very good point guard that ran the offense, this past year the burden was on him and they didn’t even make the tourney).
Basically, he and Bayless have nothing in common as a basketball player. Hell, they don’t have anything in common as a person. Rudy is a bigger reason not to draft curry than bayless, but I guess the overall point remains. It makes NO sense to go after this kid…
The Blazers as a whole are far more like my wife than like me in the sense of their physicality on defense.
-Dave
by chrischa on Jun 2, 2009 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
good analogy
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
by SpyderRyder on Jun 2, 2009 8:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Will Rudy be a point guard?
I like your comparison with Rudy and Curry. Towards the end of the season, it seemed Rudy and BROY were at the guards, sharing playmaking and distributing roles. If that continues/expands and works, that would be great and the need for another PG is diminished.
While Curry is no defensive stopper, his steals numbers were quite good. His assists were also good which I think shows a pretty good IQ. Putting Curry (or another scorer like him) and Rudy with BROY seems to me to be a potent offensive lineup.
If he falls past the Knicks, I would guess KP might offer Sergio and Outlaw to Toronto for Curry and Humphreys, especially if Curry ranks high on KP’s draft board. (That same offer might be attractive to the Knicks as well.)
by kacee on Jun 2, 2009 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that was covered last week
There was a fanpost with a statistical analysis of Roy/Rudy playing “PG” and they both graded low. The consensus was the two of them will need a legit PG to run the offense, at least for most of the game, and against most opposing backcourts.
I know in late game situations it may look like Brandon has the ball in his hands “like a PG” But that’s only part of the job, there are other responsibilities on the offensive and defensive end of the court and these aren’t Brandon or Rudy’s strengths. (They’re scoring guards who can pass the ball, but not “lead” guards)
by two4larue on Jun 3, 2009 12:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As good as Roy is
he can’t be the only guy on the court that can dribble. And as good as Roy or Rudy are, neither one of them are going to be defending point guards at any kind of acceptable level. You turn Roy who is a good defender of wings, into a bad defender of point guards, and Rudy who can defend smaller wings into a guy prone to getting beat by point guards. I think Conley Jr fits on both the Batum Roy and Rudy Roy wing combos. Blake isn’t able to penetrate at all, limiting the offense to just what Roy creates, and Bayless can’t shoot limiting the room Roy will have and the options he’ll have to kick out to.
I think Conley Jr is the best bet as he can do everything that needs to be done at a proficient level. He’s good at initializing an offense, can handle the ball about as well as anyone in the league, can penetrate to the hole and finish or find his big for the finish, can use a very good three point shot at a very young age to set up the penetration or to finish on Roy’s kick outs, as well as playing solid defense on speedy point guards.
Stephen Curry has some significant flaws in his defense and athletically for finishing plays at the rim in the NBA. While I think he’d be a decent option starting, as he can do what Blake can do, I don’t think he’s an ideal fit by any means. I think overall Bayless is the better player. I know I’ve stated this a couple times, but the only guys that seem like real upgrades over Bayless in this draft are Ricky Rubio (obviously) and Brandon Jennings. If we’re just looking for a third point guard, I think Darren Collison fits just as well as any of those other guys and can supposedly be had at our own picking meaning no giving up other valuable assets. If we don’t make a run at Rubio, Jennings or Blair I’d be more than happy picking up the best of whats left at #24. There should be a fine group of players, just like there were last year (Batum, Chalmers, Ibaka, Dorsey).
by as11osu on Jun 3, 2009 1:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
recent comments on Rubio and Collison
Givony said he thinks the Blazers are past the point of waiting 2-3 years for an 18-year old PG (Rubio) to develop
Kenny Vance (I think) said Collison is a bad fit for Portland. I don’t remember the details
And you already know that I think Conley is too small for Nate’s defensive size-preference at PG
We’ll see “who’s right” on June 25th (or shortly thereafter)
by two4larue on Jun 3, 2009 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Curry: JJ Reddick-plus (?)
put a body on 'em
by RayBourque on Jun 3, 2009 12:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+
passing, heart, a non-bitchy attitude, a handle, an ability to create for himself rather than running off 5 screens constantly
by darkhelmit54 on Jun 3, 2009 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Curry Rumors!
Im not to worried about this going down. Stephen Curry is probably a good player but the probably days are over. We are not going to pick in the draft this year unless its for someone elses team in some kinda draft day trade deal. The only hints KP has dropped thus far is that we need to add experience now more than adding youth. We dont need to draft anyone in this weak draft, besides we still have players stashed overseas! That means to me, KP will couple all of our picks, with a couple players, and maybe cash to get a big dog PG(Nash, Kidd, or hopefully C.Paul). Only time will tell, but my money is on KP making a trade, not a draft pick.
by cavejunctionblazer on Jun 2, 2009 6:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Givony was on with Wheels
He shot down the idea that Portland wants to add any young players via the draft, except maybe for a big man like Blair, or a Euro big man in the 2nd round. The Blazer’s window is now, and they don’t want to wait 2-3 years for a rookie PG like Rubio to develop
(Givony could be wrong, of course. But that’s how he sees Portland leaning)
I expect KP to deal most of his 2009 draft choices to add veteran experience and toughness, not more youth to the roster
by two4larue on Jun 3, 2009 12:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's all well and good
but at the trade deadline having some nice throw ins for a team we’re looking to pluck their solid starter away from, those young guys are like gold (cheap contracts, lots of potential, easy to include in trades). If you want to keep our core of 7, you have to have some enticing guys that people are going to want to trade for outside of that core.
by as11osu on Jun 3, 2009 1:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like gold?
Gold certainly isn’t cheap. It has limited potential, as it’s primary use is as a hedge against economic collapse. It probably is easy to trade.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Jun 3, 2009 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't expect the Blazers
to have 4 rookies again next season. They’re past that stage
Two new kids at the most, that means 3 of the draft choices will have to be dealt or used to “stash” more Euros
KP likes to build his roster during the offseason, not make deadline deals. (At least, so far…)
by two4larue on Jun 3, 2009 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd take Curry
“overlap a lot; Curry is essentially Jerryd Bayless minus the creatine and with a more proven stroke.” The proven stroke is hard to come by. It’s usually what separates good from great.
by runanjum on Jun 2, 2009 6:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
A question about Curry is if he will be able to get off his good shot against the pros
Against college players he has found a way to get by using all kinds of tricks to create separation. He might still be able to do that against quicker taller players especially in a fast system that allows him open shots – or not.
by Norsktroll on Jun 2, 2009 7:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has one of the quicket releases on his shot I've ever seen.
Brandon Roy just destroyed everything in his path. There's your rational analysis -- Dave
Also: COMCAST SUCKS!
by TwoDeep on Jun 2, 2009 8:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's true, but the release point is not very high and he isn't very tall
Bayless has to rebuild his shot to become quicker, but he also can score around the rim a lot absorbing contact well to at least draw fouls. It’s not impossible that Curry can be an effective scorer in the pros, it’s just a question mark on his profile. I think a fast offense like in NY (#8) or Golden State (#7) would suit him.
by Norsktroll on Jun 2, 2009 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bayless and Curry aren't that similar
They are about the same height and build, and were both offensive powerhouses in college, but there are a lot of differences. Bayless is all about speed and strength going to the basket. Curry is all about skills – set 3 pointers, jump shots off of screens, good hands when he gets to the basket.
The big difference is that Curry focused on being a true PG this year, and looked really good doing it. Bayless still hasn’t shown that he is a PG.
With Curry, the risk is whether he is fast enough to defend and strong enough to finish. With Bayless, it is whether he can be enough of a set up guy and can he be consistent from outside. Those are very different questions.
That said, I don’t think we need another question mark at PG right now. I’m happy enough to stick with Bayless for now to see what we’ve got.
by hoopla-pdx on Jun 2, 2009 6:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree about your take on their dissimilarity.
But I take exception with your conclusion about sticking with a guy who is unlikely to ever be a good PG.
Brandon Roy just destroyed everything in his path. There's your rational analysis -- Dave
Also: COMCAST SUCKS!
by TwoDeep on Jun 2, 2009 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
errr... Bayless is 20 years old.
He struggled a bit with his shot in his rookie year, but he still managed to get 1.1 Rbs, 1.5 assists, and 4.5 points in just over 12 minutes. Nothing spectacular there, but his minutes were mostly garbage, and random as all get out.
I have no personal experience with your Oracle abilities, but if you are making your statement based on sound logic, I would love to hear it.
I heart taxes.
by everett on Jun 2, 2009 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't forget...
This is the only guard in the draft that I want. We need another scorer on our team. I’m holding out hope for Martel, but Batum is so nice at the 3… I think you have to get a gaurd who can score. Is that already Bayless? Maybe, but I’d make room for Curry just in case.
by ItsMrHarris2u on Jun 2, 2009 6:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
thanks ben
for stopping all this curry madness
"The ink of a scholar is worth 1,000 times more then the blood of a martyr"
by phillyduck23 on Jun 2, 2009 7:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Curry is not going to fall that far
Collison who is a much better fit likely will and Holliday who is an even better fit will go in the late teens.My Dad is a UCLA alumni and I have watched these guys play,my scouting report.Nate would love Collison,3 point shot,good half court ball handler and distibuter and defender.KP would love Holliday,Nic like D skills,high IQ and a team/role player mentality with no jump shot but great hops and hands around the rim.
by southern oregon on Jun 2, 2009 7:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Collison
As a third guard, emergency depth sounds just fine to me … not a ton of upside, but as a 4 year starter I like his “floor” even if his “ceiling” isn’t through the roof.
by nikolokolus on Jun 2, 2009 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It should be noted
Collison really improved his stock this week. Both with his 6’2" size and his #2 lane agility (10.45) and #3 3/4 court sprint (3.10). His lane agility time is in the top 10 in the last 21 years of the NBA. Add all that to his shooting from deep (last year he shot 53% from 3), and his elite level defense and it’’s someone you might have to talk about trading up for.
by as11osu on Jun 2, 2009 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless something strange happens he’ll be available for us at #24.
by danielfarrell on Jun 2, 2009 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope so...
Most of the other point guards don’t fit nearly as well as he would. Although with his game, you could really say that about quite a number of teams.
by as11osu on Jun 2, 2009 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d also look at rodrigue beaubois personally. His combine numbers were nuts and his ceiling is higher than Collisons, lthough Collison is more NBA ready.
by danielfarrell on Jun 4, 2009 5:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am still uncertain
who I would want, Collison or a vet like Jaque Vaughn or Brevin Knight.
If either one of Blake/Bayless went down would you feel more comfortable with Collison of Jaque or Brevin at the helm?
My mind also thinks back to Peterri as well. He would be the least desirable but could be an option if he plays well in the Euro cup.
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
by SpyderRyder on Jun 2, 2009 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Koponen is beyond dead
he has 0 chance of ever playing on this team.
As far as Collison versus Knight (the better of the two options), I’d prefer Collison because of his ability to knock down the 3 ball. I also have very little worry about what Collison brings defensively versus small but quick point guards. While Knight also excels in that area, I believe Collison youth is actually an advantage because he was properly taught how to play on that end by a great coach. Throw in his elite speed and I think Collison is someone I’d be equally comfortable with by the end of the year. I feel and felt the same way about Mario Chalmers last year.
by as11osu on Jun 2, 2009 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
we'll see
he was in the same hoops summit as Nic and that is where he got his claim to fame. He and Jennings played in the same league and he did OK and his team was 2-0 vs Jennings team FWIW.
He is young and we are not talking about him playing big minutes just as an injury backup.
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
by SpyderRyder on Jun 2, 2009 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In regards to Koponen
he did OK</blockquote
That’s just a bold faced lie. His PER in Italy is 5.0. He has the lowest of any player in the entire league with any kinds of minutes at all. He’s been pitiful in every regard offensively. Can’t shoot can’t pass, commits too many turnovers.
I understand if you haven’t paid attention to him all year, but the information is on him. He’s not an NBA player.
by as11osu on Jun 2, 2009 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
KP sounds very eager to at least try him out in summer league
I would put the chances to see him on the Blazers next year at 70%
by Norsktroll on Jun 3, 2009 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still too early to drop the axe on him
VENTURA: It's drowning. It gives you the complete sensation that you are drowning. It is no good, because you -- I'll put it to you this way, you give me a waterboard, Dick Cheney and one hour, and I'll have him confess to the Sharon Tate murders.
by 22baylor on Jun 3, 2009 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
by SpyderRyder on Jun 3, 2009 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jacque Vaughn or Brevin Knight?
Both are very old. I’d love Brevin if he was just coming out of Stanford – I don’t want him now. I don’t think I ever wanted Jacque.
If those are my choices, I’d go with Collison. – Elgin
VENTURA: It's drowning. It gives you the complete sensation that you are drowning. It is no good, because you -- I'll put it to you this way, you give me a waterboard, Dick Cheney and one hour, and I'll have him confess to the Sharon Tate murders.
by 22baylor on Jun 3, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
as a 3rd injury
PG who would teach Bayless about running a team they would go a lot further than Collison even as seasoned as he is.
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
by SpyderRyder on Jun 3, 2009 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
teach Bayless?
Sorry… I was thinking about who would better be able to help us win games next year, not who best fits into a Bayless agenda.
by as11osu on Jun 3, 2009 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
get off it
the 3rd PG never see that much time anyways and and would feel a lot better having someone who is tried and true running the backup PG slot other than a rookie.
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
by SpyderRyder on Jun 3, 2009 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As an avid viewer of Pac-10 basketball, I'd choose Darren Collison over Jerryd ...
Bayless each and every time.
by AK1984 on Jun 4, 2009 12:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ben, didn't you just hype this possible move up?
Except in your scenario the PG you touted was Lawson instead of Curry. It’s almost exactly the same scenario. I’m pretty sure Curry has always been ahead of Lawson, so getting him at the same place (#12) would be a little better overall pick from a value perspective.
IMO the guy we need to look into is Brandon Jennings. I think he’ll end up being the 2nd best point guard in the class, and brings hyper athleticism to the position along with elite passing and the ability to score inside or find the open big man inside. His shot while not good this year in Italy seemed like it might be good beforehand. He was in the top 10 in assist percentage in the the Italian league while playing inconsistent minutes. I think it might also help him that he’s received the pro treatment, as he was the guy used as a defensive specialist over there and realizes how important that end of the court can be.
by as11osu on Jun 2, 2009 7:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It's funny that his stock is dropping because he didn't showcase enough, but there is little doubt he stepped up his game in Italy
Especially defensively, but also working with a great Serbian development trainer on his shot and coming away from a me-first attitude. But now Chad Ford has him dropping to 14 (Suns) in his latest mock draft because teams didn’t like that he skipped the combine, and reportedly he will also skip the Reebok Eurocamp which won’t help his stock at all because NBA executives wanted to see him play more in a 3-3 and 5-5 setting. Now his last hope to go top 4-10 are individual workouts.
He is a bit of a “not sure how he will pan out” pick (Collison or Lawson seem safer), but his upside is undeniable.
by Norsktroll on Jun 2, 2009 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He'd make a lot more sense coming off the bench than Bayless does right now...
His ability to break down his defender and pass would give lots of open looks to Rudy, Martell, and right this minute Travis. If he does end up going to the Suns, it’d make sense for a 1 for 1 swap with him and Bayless, as they’re one of the teams that covet Bayless.
by as11osu on Jun 2, 2009 8:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It all depends a bit on who picks a point guard.
In the last draft, Sacramento was screwed when Charlotte took Augustin and Indiana picked Bayless (for us).
Kings, Timberwolves, Warriors, Knicks, Bucks, maybe Pacers, Suns all seem likely to take one in the lottery. Sixers likely will too, maybe Hornets, maybe Mavs. That could be 10 point guards gone until 20.
by Norsktroll on Jun 2, 2009 8:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I totally agree.
It’s not like he got worse in Italy.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on Jun 2, 2009 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here is a pretty exhaustive defense of Jennings by an author who thinks he will be a star
by Norsktroll on Jun 3, 2009 7:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats pretty much my feeling
disbelief while watching the plunge of his draft stock. Hopefully KP is paying attention, because Jennings looks like he very well could be the best value in the draft. Any NBA GM that drafts Flynn ahead of Jennings, or has Flynn ahead of Jennings on their board should be fired immediately. There is no comparison.
by as11osu on Jun 3, 2009 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the immortal words of Lloyd Christmas
“So you’re saying there’s a chance?”

by nikolokolus on Jun 2, 2009 8:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
In the immortal words of Judge Roy Bean
If Bad Bob wanted a chance He should have gone somewhere else.
by southern oregon on Jun 2, 2009 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As much as I like Bayless, this Curry kid has special written all over him
It makes you pause.
by Sonic Boom on Jun 2, 2009 8:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Here we go:
Outlaw for NJ #11, somehow trade that up to get Curry (perhaps 6, 7, 8, or 9)
then…
Blake and Bayless for Steve Nash (we can absorb his salary and they save 7 million or so)
Nash/Curry
Roy/Fernandez
Batum/Webster
Aldridge/Mcdyess
Oden/Pryzbilla
with Koponen and Freeland over, and Beaubois and Claver stored overseas.
by darkhelmit54 on Jun 2, 2009 8:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
That seems like a lot of moves.
If we couldn’t do it with one trade I don’t think we could do it at all. Too much would have to fall in place.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on Jun 2, 2009 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
defense?
we don’t need no stinking defense
by as11osu on Jun 2, 2009 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
we would have Aldridge, Oden, Pryzbilla, and Mcdyess to play volleyball behind our guards. And Roy, Koponen, and Batum all can/should have great defense long-term.
by darkhelmit54 on Jun 2, 2009 9:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
New Jersey and Phoenix would decline those offers.
Also, a theoretical backcourt of Brandon Roy and Steve Nash would mix like oil and water.
by AK1984 on Jun 2, 2009 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I strongly disagree
with all three things you said:
Most Phoenix boards are split on if they would accept that trade (and those are all Nash fans), they need the savings badly.
Roy/Nash wouldn’t be bad, Nash can spread the floor (top 5 shooting percentage in NBA history) and distribute well, Roy would still be the guy we run iso for, and Nash can push the break and hit Roy on the secondary break spotting up for 3 or cutting down the lane.
Nash could play the Blake role in half-court with better shooting, and single-handedly bring a fast break game to Portland. Not to mention help mentor our young team (he’s supposed to be phenomenally encouraging to other players).
by darkhelmit54 on Jun 3, 2009 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ya' kiddig me Ben?
Your Bayless love has left you with cataract vision.
Curry will never drop to our draft level of course. He’s simply too talented. KP, do what you can to move up and nab him. Certainly throw in Bayless to get it done (but never Roy, LA, Oden, Batum or Rudy). What’s left? Travis, our pick, Bayless, and another one of our PG’s.
Curry has the quickest release on his shot I’ve ever seen. Quicker than Rudy, or Doug Collins. And he knows and sees the game (something I wonder if Bayless will ever accomplish). Sure, Curry has some liabilities. Not the most athletic guy (but neither was Bird). Bayless? I doubt he will ever be able to see and read what is happening on the floor and act within a pico second of what his brain has inputted. Despite his horrible form, he may someday be able to shoot — not counting on it but I hope so for him because he wants it so badly.
But like Bird and Roy, Curry knows and feels basketball on the court… I’m almost sure he will be something special in the league. It would be so great if it were with Portland. Three guys on the court with big basketball brains (Roy, Rudy (extraordinary court sense in the mold of Brandon) and Curry) …. well I just can’t wrap my mind around how awesome that would be. It would more than compensate for Oden’s deficiencies in that area … LA’s are average). Send that brainy talent into the finals, and I don’t care which team LeBron brings to challenge us.
P.S. In case you’re wondering, I was always against drafting Adam Morrison.
Brandon Roy just destroyed everything in his path. There's your rational analysis -- Dave
Also: COMCAST SUCKS!
by TwoDeep on Jun 2, 2009 9:14 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Except, Curry isn't a great NBA player,
he’s a wannabe NBA player. Would any of us be really surprised if Curry is the most overrated player in the draft (my apologies to Thabeet)?
High basketball IQ and a quick release sound good, but where is the exceptional quickness, the explosive strength, the quick hands, the good handle (and where is the ability to set your teammates up when you draw double teams?) Where is Curry’s ability to score on “long” players (a.k.a., stereotypical NBA players)?
I’m no Curry expert, and I expect rebuttal, but I have watched him play, and I have read his detractors and supporters. I just have my doubts.
In contrast, the only thing we can really say about Bayless (in comparison) is that he forced the drive too much and shot poorly. He didn’t have a plan for taking advantage of the defense when it collapsed on him, and he couldn’t hit the open J when available. Bayless has the intelligence and will to learn to take what the defense gives him and the physical tools to finish inside. Plus, Bayless has a defensive upside.
I’d take Bayless over Curry for the NBA game 10/10.
by blacknoiseNW on Jun 2, 2009 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if everything you said is exactly true
But I love your post. Gave me chills and made me think about Steph a little more.
The things from the combine that we’re not given access to include all that psych profiling and bbiq sense that GM’s get. The kind of player that Portland, San Antonio and Houston go for – which guys in the draft fit that mold and which guys are headcases from which we’ll run away? Truth is, none of us really know, and guys like KP are going to hold it close to the vest until he shows who he likes by who he picks.
by sagcat on Jun 3, 2009 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Curry is to weak a defender to trade up more than a few spots for
For the record I said the same thing about Morrison who is never going to be half the player as Curry
by southern oregon on Jun 2, 2009 9:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow, Ben's love for Bayless is greater
than Z-bo’s love for a stripper made of doughnuts.
The whole Ty Lawson thing is interesting though. I thought he looked good in the NCAA tournament. You can of course do great there and end up being Juan Dixson, but I think his skills looked more varied and NBA ready than it sounds like people are thinking now. I imagine he will make good. People said he was helped by being the point for a great offensive team, but I’m sure they were not better than the Blazers. I just don’t see Bayless running the team that well, but I hope he does. I really appreciate him being with Oden in Ohio. I don’t know much about Curry, but what I do know is exciting. I think I would take Curry and Lawson over Bayless, but who knows, I hope next year Bayless makes me regret saying that.
by twggyy on Jun 2, 2009 9:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
People don't think he benefited from a great offensive system
People think Lawson benefited from playing Roy Williams run n’ gun offense that relied very heavily on a lot fast breaks and very little play making in the half-court; call it Raymond Felton syndrome.
by nikolokolus on Jun 2, 2009 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is what I read that made me think that
“As we put this data together, we weren’t surprised that Ty Lawson excelled from a situational perspective, as he did play for the most potent offense in all of college basketball, but we didn’t expect him to look this good. He ranks first in a number of key categories, including overall FG% (52%), Points Per Possession [PPP](1.13), pull up jump shot FG% (47%), and shots he was fouled on (16.1).”
This is on the Draft Express page on Lawson, I didn’t realize that “potent offense” referred to a run and gun system, but that makes sense. I guess it would be like someone looking good in Phoenix a couple years ago, then coming to play for the Spurs. Reading the Draftexpress stuff on Lawson is surprising when you consider how people are talking about him now.
by twggyy on Jun 3, 2009 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol twodeep.....morrison propaganda popped into my head half way through your comment
"show me a good loser and i'll show you a loser" - coach
by chikndnnr on Jun 2, 2009 11:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
KP hint about who doesn't get traded
I just read Ben’s interview with KP in early April (great read, and great interview Ben). One thing that struck me was a comment KP made when discussing Nate’s job as a coach this past year and the Coach of the Year award:
“It’s a testament to not only Nate and the coaching staff but to Brandon and LaMarcus and Joel and Steve and their leadership and how that’s trickled down through the whole organization.” – Kevin Prichard
When I read this comment I have a hard time thinking that KP would trade any four of these guys, at least not this upcoming year. Obviously it is very unlikely Roy is going anywhere and unlikely LA is getting traded, but Blake’s name and to a lesser extent Joel’s name get thrown around in a lot of trade speculation.
KP’s comments reinforce what has been my relatively-longstanding impression: that the Blazer’s are committed to Blake and Joel as part of the organization, at least for the near term.
put a body on 'em
by RayBourque on Jun 3, 2009 12:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
We think this won't happen
Boom!!!We get Stephen Curry!!!
I’ve always liked this kid and think he is suitable for this team, but it just seems like, maybe not really.After all, I’m not KP.
Our 2R are basketball geniuses-Roy and Rudy
by asiafan on Jun 3, 2009 1:13 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The guy has so much heart
I know he might not be the best NBA player, but there’s something about the way he plays that makes me think he’s gonna make it. And he can shoot like no one else. I think Nate owuld like him, he’s pretty much blake with some quickness and a better shot. i would love to see curry, but we need to move ahead of the knicks, who will take him if he’s there at 8
by StocktonNEP on Jun 3, 2009 8:17 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't want him
Great kid but I think he’s probably this year’s most likely bust. This ain’t Mark Price’s NBA any more, he’s not big enough…
Proud member of Duck nation!
by skywaker9 on Jun 3, 2009 8:31 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ben's analysis was very well done.
Unfortunately, it is based on the assumption that Bayless and Curry and basically the same player.
I didn’t see much of Curry in college, so I can’t say one way or the other if this is true. I suspect it is not. For one, comparing players to someone else is usually a lazy method to try to describe someone. It often is based on superficial similarities and not experienced and in depth analysis.
For another, while I think Ben has shown to be a good writer (I think he already kicks Canzano’s ass, not that that is saying a lot) and appears to be developing into a pretty good reporter, I have yet to be impressed with his ability to analyze players or the NBA game. In that respect he is still an average fan.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Jun 3, 2009 8:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Bayless and Curry not alike
Bayless and Curry are almost complete opposites style wise. Bayless relies on athletesism, speed, and strength to get the rim while Curry relies on deadly outside shooting and a quick release. I do know if I’ve ever seen a player more determined to get to the rim than Bayless. He sometimes reminds me of a zombie who instead being obbsessed with brains is obbsessed with basketball rims.
JRogero
by JRogero on Jun 3, 2009 2:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Just up on Free Darko
Most Blazerly Player Not on the Blazers: Stephen Curry. Seriously, will someone please draft Curry and trade him for Jerryd Bayless? His light-skinneded nice guy-ness belongs in Portland.
"The Right Way Crusades appear to be over. In their place, though, a new bone of contention has arrived, one which may well define the sport for the next decade or so. I speak, of course, of the bloody, and often chaotic, March of the Positional Revolution." - FD
by stikit on Jun 3, 2009 2:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yay
Just what this team needs another “nice guy” who like to shoot jump shots.
by nikolokolus on Jun 3, 2009 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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