We need a point... and a counterpoint! Here is how it could happen!
My first post. Be Gentle!
It seems many of the posts (except for Hinrich and Conley) targeting specific players with our money under the cap have been free agents. There are only a few teams under the cap that can compete with us for free agents and spend more than the MLE. The problem is the lack of FA players that fit our needs that are worth going over the MLE to get. Andre Miller, Hedo, Varejao, Kidd... the list goes on, but I'm not sold on the available FA's. I like the idea of a trade better if we can find a trading partner. I like Conley and Hinrich but don't think some combination of Sergio/Blake/Outlaw/Picks/Cash get it done. Seems like a majority of Bedgers don't like the idea of giving up more than that for either of these guys. I would agree. I like Sessions, but am very reluctant to wait 10 days after the beginning of the free agent period to find out if our plan to nab Sessions will be successful.
The alternative to a FA is to find a player under contract from a team that is trying to shed salary. We can take back more in salary than we send out. I would think there would be several good options to consider in this category. I encourage your thoughts on this type of player. There are probably even better options out there than what I'm going to suggest.
Last week Ben made a good argument for moving up to grab a young pg. I like the idea of having options in case Bayless doesn't develop. I believe in competition. Bayless should earn his floor time and I don't buy that having a 3rd pg is giving up on Bayless. Dave made a solid argument for adding a veteran pg. Could we do both? Would that be ridiculous? Maybe. Or maybe we get the veteran backup pg and a young backup pf?
Here is my thought. We target Milwaukee's #10 draft pick and Luke Ridnour. What would it take? The primary thing it would take is a decision by Milwaukee that they will not go over the luxury tax limit and that they want to keep Ramon Sessions more than they want the player available at #10. Currently most of the rumors are that they would be interested in a pg (Flynn. Evans, Jennings) or a pf (Clark, Blair). All of these young players come with question marks. Sessions has been a big fan favorite and most will be very disappointed to lose Sessions. The luxury tax decision has already been made. I would be shocked to see them go over the cap. The Bucks may find a better way to shed salary, but I don't know that they'll find takers for Richard Jefferson's deal in this economy. I don't see this trade any less likely than the Hinrich and Conley musings that have been all over Bedge.
What do we give up? I would offer some combination of Sergio/cash/2nd round pick(s)/future protected 1st and our salary cap space. Is this enough to entice Milwaukee? Not if they have figured out some other way to keep Sessions! If they haven't, they get a replacement for Ridnour in Sergio who may have nearly as much potential as some of the pgs available in the draft. We get Ridnour who has a contract for 1 more year at $6.5M. He would be a solid option if Bayless isn't ready to be a more steady backup to Blake. If Bayless is ready, Ridnour is nice depth in case of an injury. I trust KP to make the right call with the #10 pick. I would love to see Brandon Jennings fall (espn reports he is dropping) and grab him there. I could see taking Blair, but I am more worried about the long-term need for a starting pg more than for the short-term need for a backup pf. We would still have some picks to grab a young pf and some cap space to find a veteran pf to come in. In 2 years you have Bayless and the young pg KP chooses to compete for the starting pg position. This deal is absolutely the best value we could hope to get out of Sergio. I'm sure it may be overly optimistic, but I would take Sessions over anybody at #10. The Bucks might also. We can sweeten the pot if needed.
Those PTB fans looking for veteran leadership with the cap space may not like finding it in what I would hope would be a 3rd string pg. There are others adamantly opposed to adding more rookies. I doubt Milwaukee would want our #24 pick as they are shedding salary. If we only want 1 rookie then use #24 on Claver and leave him in Spain. I don't see how 1 rookie is a bad move, especially one with upside like Jennings, Blair or Evans.
What do you think?
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Doesn't Ridnour have an expiring contract?
If Milwaukee is looking desperately to shed money, you’d have to think Gadzuric would be included.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1710
I wouldn’t be opposed to the idea of getting the #10 and Gadzuric. What is to much to give up for that package? I don’t know, but I’ll have to sleep on it.
depends on who is at #10
if we pick up Gadzuric then w wold lose all our cap space, and I dont think thatwould be worth it.
Ridnour expires in 2010
Bucks need cap space this year to avoid luxury tax if Sessions signs a MLE deal as a restricted free agent this summer which seems a near certainty. I’m sure they would like to unload other contracts. Jefferson is probably near the top of that list. I doubt we would consider a longer, uglier contract than Ridnour’s unless there is someone that KP loves at #10. It could happen.
not bad
seems like a good idea, however we would have to take back another bad contract that the bucks have, probably Dan Gadzuric for them to bite on this.
Is anyone going to take Gadzuric?
Probably not. Much more likely they find a taker for Jefferson. The Spurs might be interested. But even if they unload Gadzuric and/or Jefferson for expiring deals it doesn’t keep them from landing in luxury tax land this season. They might be willing to go over the cap as long as they knew they were saving some future $$$ by unloading for future expiring contracts, but owners don’t like Lux Land when they have a very mediocre team on the floor.
not bad, for an uber n00b hahahahhahhahhahhahhah
in all seriousness, that’s really not a bad plan at all.
There really isn’t that much of a difference in talent from 4-15 in this draft IMO.
I would just hope that Portland takes Maynor instead of the guys you mentioned lol
Best of Senator Clay Davis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI4-QyAzY64&feature=related
This doesn't have to be about Ridnour
Jennings or Blair at #10. I’d be all over that pick because it represents value either way. Ridnour would clutter the point guard situation, and probably wouldn’t ever play. Still, picking up bad contracts along with lottery picks is a good way to make use of you have available (Brandon Roy anyone?).
Sessions is the guy
and Sergio is the bait. Sergio and a resigned Frye and a couple 2nd rounders for a resigned Sessions will do just fine.
Sessions can take over for Blake and allow Steve to become the backup that we know he is.
Milwaukee
has already said they will have trouble signing Sessions if he gets a reasonable offer, and we have the cap space to sign him to that, so I would question why we would give up assets especially if the biggest thing we can give Milwaukee is some cap flexibility rather than serviceable parts.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
Sessions is fine with me...
but we run the risk of having our eggs in the Sessions basket while other FA’s are signed. Then 10 days after free agency starts, the Bucks change heart, can’t let Sessions go and match his deal. At that point we would be looking at going into next season with the same pg lineup as this season or probably over-paying in a trade for Hinrich. We would certainly be operating from a point of weakness at that point instead of the leveraged position we are currently in. It may be a risk worth taking. I’m prefer KP’s approach of targeting a guy and then going to get him as opposed to hoping another team will make us the trade we want if the Bucks match.
Good Point!! What are we giving up? Maybe Sergio, future picks, cash... they don't want salaries!
Milwaukie probably only does it if they are convinced they are losing Sessions. If they are convinced and they like Sessions more than the player at #10 then they are better off IMO doing the deal I have suggested than the sign and trade. They get to keep the guy the value the most. If they love a player at #10 they do a sign and trade OR just let Sessions walk. I’m happy if we get Sessions under either of those scenarios.
nice post.
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
I don't get it. Why would the Bucks give away their starting PG and their lottery pick
for a guard they definitely wouldn’t value as highly as their starter and a bunch of second rounders or future firsts that will probably be low non-lottery picks?
Fans (e.g. the editor of Brewhoop) would actually like to give away Ridnour if it meant they could keep Sessions
They fear the plan is to draft a new cheap point guard and let Ridnour start. Then they would have “upgraded” over time from T.J. Ford to Mo Williams to Ramon Sessions to Ridnour + x.
How the management sees it would likely depend on what we can offer and who they had targeted at #10. If they think say Flynn or Jennings or Lawson is their point guard of the future, they wouldn’t bite for Sergio and worse picks.
Well, again considering that Ridnour was ahead of Sessions in the rotation,
it seems kind of self-evident that management and/or coaches think more highly of Ridnour than Sessions, doesn’t it? It doesn’t mean they’re right but it does indicate how attractive they would find a giveaway of Ridnour and the #10 for a PG in Sergio that Skiles would detest and a couple of second round picks, right?
by howlingfantods on Jun 2, 2009 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions
yeah....
it’s interesting that all these ex-mediocre point guards like Skiles, Nate, and Avery all have problems with coaching their own point guards. They’re dissimilar in a lot of other respects but they’ve never had a good professional relationship with any point guard they’ve coached other than similarly limited PGs like Blake and Ridnour, and have done a lot to drive PG potential talent out of their rosters.
Small sample size so far but curious coincidence at the least so far.
by howlingfantods on Jun 2, 2009 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions
So the Milwaukee GM sees Ridnour as the answer at pg and wouldn't give him up...
That would explain the success we’ve seen from the Bucks. I think the question in front of Bucks is do they like Sessions running the point long term or do they like whoever might be available at #10 running the point. I think you have to give the Milwaukee GM some credit. Even they should see that Ridnour as the starting pg is epic fail. Now to like Flynn better than Sessions for their team is reasonable. To let Sessions walk because Luke is your guy… I doubt it.
Is this giving Ridnour away?
It is if you consider Sergio garbage trade fodder. I think a case can be made that Sergio has some value. This deal does end up being Sergio for Ridnour and Sessions for Flynn (or another available pg at #10). Do the Bucks want Sessions/Sergio or Ridnour/Flynn. A lot more question marks long term with Ridnour/Flynn IMO. Milwaukie could even clear enough space with this deal to hang on to Charlie V and still avoid luxury tax. Not sure if they want to keep him or not.
I don't believe Sergio has much trade value around the league.
I like him and think he could go on to be a very nice player with his handle and vision but I believe I’m very much in the minority. I’d be surprised if he’s much more than a throw in, maybe equivalent to around a low first round pick value.
by howlingfantods on Jun 2, 2009 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Nice first post.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Josh has a pretty full slate -- he basically has new stuff coming up about every 4 or 5 hours during the day. Not sure how pivotal any of it is at the moment since the next game doesn't happen for a couple days yet...
My stuff is scheduled for 7:30 tonight (Orlando links), 12:30 tomorrow afternoon (Orlando team rundown), and 7:30 tomorrow night (Orlando links).
I’ve also been working on a “trash-talking” piece with Marie from Orlando, which will either be a separate post on the sidebar, part of the links posts, or scrubbed…
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
After a full season of the Blake/ Sergio/ Bayless poo-poo platter
I’m not sure I could handle the addition of Ridnour and perhaps even another high lottery pick into the PG mix. Talk about quantity over quality….
Point/Counter Point - Literally
Conley|Bayless – Would most likely be the most young-talented duo of PG’s since Isiah Thomas & Vinnie Johnson in 1982-1983, through 1990-1991.
Heinrch|Bayless – We get a Steve Blake with great PG defense. Would give Bayless good competition in practice, compared to Blake.
Kidd|Bayless – Talked about on Trailblazers Courtside. Gives Bayless a mentor with a great career & could show Bayless he needs to be great in every facet of the game. I like him as a mentor for Jerryd.
Offseason:
(T)Mike Conley Jr
(T)Reggie Evans
(D)Taj Gibson
(D)Kevin Seraphin
(D)Jerel McNeal/Lester Hudson
Negatives to each
Conley/Bayless- Too young and have a combined half a year of decent play between them.
Kirk/Bayless- Small upgrade over Blake for some big monies
Kidd/Bayless- Kidd is winding down his career and Bayless might still suck in a year or two. Also, I think the mentor thing is totally blown out or proportion. Everyone thinks that if you play under a good vet you’ll automatically pick up all of his abilities… which is just not true. You can learn from him yes, but Bayless won’t suddenly become a godlike passer because Nash/Kidd join the team.
Too young?
Young is a good thing. Especially a player that’s already as good as Blake (as Conley is). We need a point guard that fits our window. Our window requires a young point guard if you want to use our assets properly.
Conley|Bayless
Would be amazing in my opinion. Ideal situation to grow with our team & I expect some really good battle for the starting spot. Conley’s speed & length VS Jerryd’s strength & finishing
Offseason:
(T)Mike Conley Jr
(T)Reggie Evans
(D)Taj Gibson
(D)Kevin Seraphin
(D)Jerel McNeal/Lester Hudson
by TheGreatDane17 on Jun 2, 2009 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Young is not a good thing for unproven players
I’m big on Conley, but in reality he did only have what… 30 good games of play this year? I could easily find plenty of young guys who had 30 solid games of play such as… CHANNING FRYE!
I think Conley will be pretty dang good in this league, but it’s not a done deal. It’s quite the risky going with Conley/Bayless because we don’t know if either will really get that good. At least with Kirk/Kidd you know you’ve got a nice upgrade a point. Kirk just might not be enough for the price and Kidd is just too old.
That said
I’d love Conley/Blake, assuming Nate was willing to start Conley and assuming Blake was okay being an 18mpg backup.
Sessions|Blake?
Our version of Rondo|House?
Offseason:
(T)Mike Conley Jr
(T)Reggie Evans
(D)Taj Gibson
(D)Kevin Seraphin
(D)Jerel McNeal/Lester Hudson
by TheGreatDane17 on Jun 2, 2009 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Getting two young talents
Open competition would only bring the best out in both.
Offseason:
(T)Mike Conley Jr
(T)Reggie Evans
(D)Taj Gibson
(D)Kevin Seraphin
(D)Jerel McNeal/Lester Hudson
by TheGreatDane17 on Jun 2, 2009 6:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Jason Kidd
Can we deny Steve Blakes team-option & sign Jason Kidd? Is it worth it?
Offseason:
(T)Mike Conley Jr
(T)Reggie Evans
(D)Taj Gibson
(D)Kevin Seraphin
(D)Jerel McNeal/Lester Hudson
He is still a better defender, rebounder(Best rebounding PG in the NBA) & passer(5 best APG) then Blake.
He is still a better defender then Blake too. I bet we get past the first round & probably beat the Lakers. Kidd is still better then Fisher. More importantly, Kidd can teach Bayless so many things. Long term, it boosts Jerryd’s value. If Bayless is such a great competitor, he will step up having to face one of the games best PG’s of the last 15 years.
Kidd gets the championship he always wanted. We get probably the perfect example for Bayless & perfect timing in Kidd’s career. In terms of ready to simply mentor & play less minutes. Give Kidd 30mpg(From Blake), slide Sergio’s 10mpg to Bayless. Giving Bayless 22.4 mpg. Roy gets the remainder with (The Last)7mpg at PG. Kidd can play a SG who can pass & rebound better then Blake ever was at sliding over to the 2.
Offseason:
(T)Mike Conley Jr
(T)Reggie Evans
(D)Taj Gibson
(D)Kevin Seraphin
(D)Jerel McNeal/Lester Hudson
by TheGreatDane17 on Jun 2, 2009 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh, I was under the impression it was Marines Per Gallon.
I know less than half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
by haildablazer on Jun 2, 2009 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
be careful there...
:)
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
Nice post, welcome
I would love the idea of getting into the top ten.
I know less than half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
Nice first post! Welcome to BE!
I like your ideas. I wouldn’t mind Sessions or Ridnour, as long as we dont give up too much to get them. But honestly I think they hold on to their #10 pick.
Keeping Draft Picks is how you reduce salaries
Nice first post.
However, rookie contracts are very low. So if a team wants to keep salaries low, they keep their picks and trade what they can spare of their vets, right?
I like Sessions. But Sessions and the #10? Why would they do that?
I agree with some above that Sergio and (perhaps mostly) Frye are our trade bait unless you want to go pretty deep into who most of us want to keep.
We need to get a different style PF, probably difficult without the #1 pick if you are looking at rooks. And we could use shoring up at PG, moreso I think on the defensive end where we have not had any reliability under the no hand check rule.
I agree in most situations...
The Bucks are in a little different situation. Giving up their pick may be the last thing they would want to do. Unless losing Sessions is the last thing they would want to do. Everybody is saying this could be the worst draft in history. If so, what is the #10 pick really worth? More than Sergio for sure! More than Sessions? Maybe.
The Bucks are a great example of how to get in cap space hell. Borderline all-stars past their primes (Jefferson, Redd) mixed with overpaid role players (Gadzuric, Ridnour, Bogut, Charlie Bell, Damon Jones) and no one to build around. Are you seriously going to build around Bogut?
The Bucks have to decide who to build around. If it is Sessions they have to find a way to keep Sessions. If that means they pay the luxury tax and still miss the playoffs… ouch! If they want to unload contracts to stay under the luxury tax, they have to give up something of value in return. Maybe we would take Gadzuric contract instead of Ridnour’s. Do they want Ridnour more than Sergio. I would think they would want to get younger ie Sessions/Sergio at pg instead of keeping Ridnour.
Now if they love somebody at #10 then all this is a waste of time. Any team planning to build around the #10 pick in this draft is a long way from mediocre. If I’m the Bucks GM this is my plan. I am working hard to move Jefferson for expiring contracts. Then I go convince my owner to pay the luxury tax this season to keep Sessions and the #10. Can I move Jefferson? Maybe in this market. Can I convince the owner to go over the luxury cap? Maybe in this market. If I can’t do those things, then I am looking at losing Sessions or finding a way to keep him. Is the price too high to keep Sessions? It might be.
the previous worst draft in history
gave us Brandon Roy and LMA. Lets all stop using the term worst draft in history.

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