Would a Blake/Bryant Backcourt win the NBA Title?
by Ben Golliver on Jun 15, 2009 11:59 AM PDT
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PrintA great poll question asked by google chat hero Kevin Pelton.
Please vote and explain your reasoning in the comments.
-- Ben (benjamin.golliver@gmail.com)
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Follow up - Is Brandon Roy as good as Kobe Bryant
The answer is no. If the Blazers can upgrade at PG, they still need to.
by Mad Matt the Road Warrior on Jun 15, 2009 12:02 PM PDT reply actions
Brandon is further along than Kobe was in his third year
He already has carried his team to the playoffs, Kobe couldn’t do that by himself until he was in his late 20’s.
"Sasha? That's a sissy name." -Mike Rice
too bad Roy is already 4 years
older overall.
Hard to compare a 22yo senior to an 18 yo senior
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
Read the second half of his statement
He already has carried his team to the playoffs, Kobe couldn’t do that by himself until he was in his late 20’s.
This has nothing to do with the age you came into the NBA.
yeah some guy named
Shaq was on his team, you know one of the greatest bigmen in the history of the league.
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
Yeah I agree with you
Kobe didn’t do much for those teams, in the finals in particular kobe would be shooting low 40% Shaq around 60% and scored on average 10-15 pts a series more then Kobe.
"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein
by Garden of ODEN on Jun 15, 2009 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Kobe did have a great series in their third title
The problem was that they won 4-0. Shaq could have had me as his SG and won it all. Basically, Shaq needed Kobe to sweep, but not to win.
if the magic dont choke
in games 2 and 4, do the lakers still win the title?
bayless leaves over my dead body
sign mike bibby
The Magic are kings of choke.
The one series where I thought they kept it together was Cleveland.
Philly and a hurt Boston weren’t good enough to beat the Magic despite some bad performances by them in late games.
I think if the Magic played more like they did vs Cleveland against LA, we’d have at the very least a 7 game series.
it is kinda weird
that their sbn website is “3rd Q collapse”
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
If they played like they did against the Cavs
They’d a been up 3-1 in the series and not been already beaten going into game 5.
Well...
Stan Van is the “Master of Panic”
Shaq quotes are gold.
* Building a Greg Oden Fanboy Treehouse Clubhouse this summer...
it's simple....
one of the greatest ballers to ever play the game + a 4 time NBA champion = nba title
blah blah blah blah lame comment - lame commenter
by Bandwagon Butcher on Jun 15, 2009 12:15 PM PDT reply actions
Not really sure what you mean
I assume you meant Kobe by greatest ballers to ever play. who is the four time champ?
"Sasha? That's a sissy name." -Mike Rice
Fisher has four rings now
"And once again we can say, it's a GREAT day to be a Blazer."- Brian Wheeler
Derek Fisher is one of the players who is the other?
"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein
by Garden of ODEN on Jun 15, 2009 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions
real.baller
bayless leaves over my dead body
sign mike bibby
by thomasikehara on Jun 16, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Is Blake good enough?
Yes, but that depends who the backup point guard is.
The question is
Would Bryant’s D be able to offset Blakes lesser D then Fisher?
Would Fisher’s slight upgrade in D help out Roy in our back court?
"Sometimes I catch myself watching him and he's shooting floaters all-net. And just to watch how he's talking trash. I loved it. I loved every minute of it. Rudy's a competitor." - Brandon Roy
it wasnt even a matter of PG
in the finals. it all had to do with the fact that, just as the hot topic of last years finals was “The Lakers’ frontcourt is soft”, that SHOULD be the same mantra this year. Because Dwight played like a little girl.
Yes
Bryant > Roy for now
Gasol > LMA for now
Bynum and Oden’s playoff skills were a wash
Odom > Outlaw by a ton
Ariza > Batum for now
Fisher and Blake are a wash. (Fisher was awful in game 4 until those 3s..)
The Lakers are just slightly better at every area than us for the time being. Replacing Fisher with Blake wouldn’t matter.
Now next year…
-Kobe will be 1 year slower, Roy will be 1 year better.
-Gasol will still be better than LMA, but hopefully the gap shrinks.
-Oden should outplay Bynum if his off-season is going as well as people are trying to make us believe.
-Hopefully we get a PG that is much better than Fisher.
-Odom will still be better than anyone on our bench sadly… hopefully Rudy can narrow this gap?
-Batum/Webster can hopefully catch up to Ariza in a year or two, or Ariza could leave LA.
by Zaig on Jun 15, 2009 12:34 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Sweet Graph!
Im going to really enjoy our 81 win season in 2016!
* Building a Greg Oden Fanboy Treehouse Clubhouse this summer...
I can't disagree, but
when you get to the benches, it’s a whole different story!
Yes, but the L*kers would have played a little differently
With Blake, the L*kers would feed Gasol/Bynum/Odom inside more. They might also complain about his defense, but they’d click even better on offense.
Sticking up for Travis Outlaw since 2008 and Steve Blake since two weeks ago.
by Kaboomm on Jun 15, 2009 12:44 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I voted no
Kobe and Jackson have confidence that Fisher will be able to hit the big shots. This confidence has been built over the past decade of playing together.
Blake wouldn’t have been given their trust after one season, so he wouldn’t have gotten the ball in big spots like Fisher.
I agree.
Blake has shown himself to be flaky at key moments.
Fisher has obviously earned the lakers trust.
And Blake has also won games in the clutch
People just forget those because his losses were more recent.
He probably wouldn't have been 0/5 on threes up to that point
And hypothetically the lakers would already have had the lead
"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein
by Garden of ODEN on Jun 15, 2009 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Steve doesn't have the same experience
Fisher’s been there before, and has proved his clutchness before. Also, he’s togher and a better defender.
Nobody expects a Spanish Acquisition!
Another question:
How many guards in the league would allow Fisher an open 3 point shot with 5 seconds left and their team 3 points ahead?
Sometimes you win and sometimes the losers enable you to win.
Easy
The Lakers could have had Anthony Johnson at the point and they still would have won it all. Fact is Fisher had a PER of 8.48 during the playoffs, compared to Blake’s 14.97. Given that discrepancy, you could argue that the Lakers would have swept the Magic with Blake.
Yes
Blake’s good assist to turnover ratio coupled with his ability to make the timely three, coupled with the less than blistering pace of the Orlando point guards means that I think Blake would have slotted in and allowed a Lakers win.
This question really gets under my skin.
I’m already darn mad that the L*kers won the title. Now this question pops up. Last week a picture of Phil Jackson. Enough of the L*kers. I hate them and always will until they put me 6 feet under. I refuse to even vote on this!
by toolman on Jun 15, 2009 1:22 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Every aspect of Blake's game is superior to that of Fisher except for ability to draw a charge and familiarity with the offense.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Voted yes.
Not an easy choice, to be sure, but this year’s Fisher just wasn’t very good in the playoffs. Steve Blake would have been asked to do even less for LA than he is for Portland, and I think he would have been up to the task.
Yes
Fisher does nothing that Steve Blake doesn’t do. They both take care of the ball, increase the mental toughness of their teams, and wait for the superstar to find him open around the arc.
"Sasha? That's a sissy name." -Mike Rice
Fisher does play better D'
But Lakers beat the Jazz and Nuggets with relative ease. Fisher couldn’t contain Brooks at all and the Lakers won that series easily enough. As for the Magic, you WANT Rafer trying to burn your PG so that he forgets that his teammates exist.
Yes, he is physically stronger and craftier on defense
That probably makes his D better. I never see Steve Blake throwing a shoulder or elbow at guys.
"Sasha? That's a sissy name." -Mike Rice
Not according to Aaron Brooks
Fisher’s “d” is very over-rated.
Doesn't matter if it is overrated
His “overrated” D is still better than Blake’s defense.
Just like Kobe is overrated, but he’s still one of the best players in the NBA today.
Fisher can't stop anybody on the perimeter. He is very good at drawing charges though.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
yes
derek fisher is garbage. he hit one three over 5 foot jameer nelson. brooks destroyed him
Something that I wondered about for a long time ...
What if Kobe looked and talked exactly like my wife? Would I be able to tell the difference?
I finally realized that, yes, I sure could. For one thing, Kobe is way better than my wife at basketball.
"Just kidding"
by CatMan2 on Jun 15, 2009 1:46 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Yes
Blake does what Fisher does. If they still had Farmar and Shannon Brown, they’d still have three decent point guards to choose from. I bet Blake keeps both of the other two on the bench, too. – Elgin
VENTURA: It's drowning. It gives you the complete sensation that you are drowning. It is no good, because you -- I'll put it to you this way, you give me a waterboard, Dick Cheney and one hour, and I'll have him confess to the Sharon Tate murders.
I'm part of the majority here, for my answer is yes to this question.
Steve Blake is an upgrade on offense and a downgrade on defense from Derek Fisher, so I think that the Los Angeles Lakers would’ve been just fine with either one of them starting at off guard.
I don't think the Laker's make the finals
Houston would be playing in the finals if Blake at been the Laker’s point guard. Aaron Brooks would have torched the Lakers, and with Yao getting Bynum and Gasol in foul trouble there would have been not much they could do.
In the games Houston lost Brooks was shut down and ineffective. Blake’s matador defense would have done a lot to get Houston past the Lakers.
Yao getting Bynum and Gasol in foul trouble there would have been not much they could do.
Umm you do know that Yao only played 3 games in that series, right? Or are you implying that Yao would not have gotten injured if he was against Blake?
And go look at Aaron’s stats for that series, he torched Fisher just fine.
I spaced Yao's injury...
Brooks did very well in the three games Houston won.
But, in the games Houston lost, Brooks averaged less than 13 pts/game. Not saying that Blake vs. Fisher would have made a giant difference, but the key for LA winning the series was shutting down Brooks.
So, would the Lakers have swept Orlando with Hinrich?
I think so.
"Sasha? That's a sissy name." -Mike Rice
This is so easy
If you were to swap Fisher for Blake last year, the Zen Master still would’ve had Brown and Farmar and that threesome has the equilvalent talent to Fish/Brown/Farmar. On the other hand, it would’ve made the Blazers a heck of a lot better. Fisher’s rings would’ve commanded the respect needed to properly tutor a young, cocky baller like Bayless. That would’ve made Sergio a relic, if he isn’t/wasn’t already.
Why this question exists.
Fisher played so awful in the playoffs you can probably swap him out with over half the starting PGs in the NBA.
He had an astounding PER of 8.5 for the playoffs.
I voted no because I don’t think Blake could make that 3 pointer in game 4. =P
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
Umm...
Fisher was 0-5 from behind the arc in the game before hitting that 3. So even if you think Blake misses that 3, do you think he makes 1-2 of the ones before it?
Who knows?
The poll question is highly speculative and I don’t see any reason to believe Blake could outplay Fisher in the Finals despite Fisher playing horribly the 1st 3 rounds.
Fisher was the key to winning Games 2 and 4 in the Finals. He made the shots and defensive plays in the clutch. Something Blake is not known for.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
Like I said, who knows?
Maybe with Blake the Lakers are down by 6. I’d take Fisher in the Finals over Blake any day. Fisher always seems to step up in the Finals.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
When you compare the single season stats for 08-09
Blake and Fisher played at a very similar level. Blake was better in some areas (offensively, Blake was more efficient in most areas and had a better assist/turnover ratio) and Fisher was better in some areas (more less turnovers based on utilization, slightly better defensively, better steal rate).
Overall they seem interchangable to me on paper. With Fisher’s experience and toughness, I would have rather had him leading our team, though.
"Respect everyone, fear no one." -TP
Nope
Because I know Blake air ball’s that 3 to put the game into overtime(game 4) & the Magic swing the momentum.
Offseason:
PG Options: Mike Conley(T)/Rodrigue Beaubois(D)
SG Options: Mickaël Piétrus(T)
PF Options: Ronnie Turiaf(T) - Damion James(D), Taj Gibson(D), Kevin Seraphin(D)
C Options: Alexis Ajinca(T)
The French Invasion !
Absolutely Yes
For the 2008-2009 season Blake was an above average point guard while Fisher was below average (w.r.t. win production). So, if Blake was on the Lakers they would have won the NBA title, and he wouldn’t even need to shoot 3’s at the end of the game to save it, since he would have compensated for it throughout the game.
Yes...
and it’s not even close. Blake is a better shooter and as good a defender. He did as well or better than Fisher against Brooks. And it seems like Blake’s 2 off games against Brooks is what is getting him killed with Portland fans (and Ben).
Really?
Wow. I think people are way overestimating Blake and underestimating Fisher. Having watched Fisher for an extended time while he was with the Warriors, I think he adds a lot that Blake does not – i.e. leadership. And if anyone watched on ESPN the Spike Lee documentary on Kobe, you know that Kobe has a ton of confidence in Fisher. Fisher has been there and proven his mettle. Blake still has a lot to prove.
No Way...
For a few reasons:
1) Fisher doesn’t have to prove anything. He is where he wants to be, doing what he wants to do. Blake is a younger guy, playing for the next contract. This attitude, exhibited by Fisher, is a key component of the Laker chemistry. Blake filling that role is impossible.
2) Fisher’s numbers are depressed as a result of playing with the offensive firepower of the Lakers. His offense has been a necessary part of every single Laker championship he has been a part of. The reason the Lakers went 15-1 in the post-season was Fisher shot 62% from three during those playoffs. Fisher is Clutch with a capital C.
3) Kobe loves and respects Fisher like no other player he has ever played with. Keeping Kobe in the right frame of mind is absolutely critical to the Lakers. Blake can’t do that.
Ha
1) If you watched Blake you will stack his icy glare up against Fisher’s “attitude” any day of the week.
2) Fisher’s numbers were not depressed by the L*kers, he just plain sucked wind. Shoot, Farmar’s numbers were better than Fish’s. Also, we are just talking about this year AND the Lakers did not go 15-1 this year (not even sure where that came from?). Anyway, Fish shot 28% from 3 point land. Ouch.
3) If Blake could keep AI and Carmelo happy, I am sure that K$b$ would be child’s play.
Going by the numbers, Blake flat out destroys Fisher. Not even close.
Going by the numbers
you’d be 100% correct.
There is more here than numbers.
Not really...
You need to make a meaningful contribution to a team in order for intangibles to come in to play. For instance, you could argue that Robert Horry has great intangibles, but it was very obvious from his play that he was a shell of his former self. Fisher is that shell. He was the reason why the Rockets minus Yao took the L*****s to 7. Sorry, Blake is better, once you can admit that, the truth will set you free.
And just so you don’t think that I am hating on Fisher, 29 point guards registered enough minutes in the playoffs to qualify for a PER ranking. Fisher was 25th out of 29 of them.
Absolutely No
Fisher has played in something like 170 playoff games, providing a steady hand playing within his role, sometimes in unspectacular fashion. He only missed the playoffs 2 years where he proved to be not that awesome individually.
It made no sense to anyone when LA gave him a nice contract as he was well past his prime. But, he has that character or intangibles that make coaches do stuff that doesn’t make any sense. In the end, I guess it was fitting he went through the playoffs unloved and eventually delivered the clutch play that led to a championship. Blake has never been out of the first round, and played in a game 6 once.
Crazy
OK, Fisher’s game 4 shot was clutch, but what about teh earlier missess? What about the 28% shotting from downtown for the rest of the playoffs, what about the ole’ defense on Brooks, what about the turnovers, the slow play, the fact that he was no better than Farmar? Intangibles are, by definition, unmeasurable, but in every single other category, Fisher stunk worse then Bynum’s jock.
No
Derek FIsher is critical to the success of the L*ckers, and in ways numbers don’t measure. First and foremost is the fact he is the bridge between Kobe and the rest of that team. Kobe respects Fisher, and that is huge given Bryant’s difficulty getting along with others. Fisher is also a clutch playoff performer – while Steve Blake hasn’t had the opportunities to prove his mettle in the post season doesn’t diminish what FIsher has done in the big moments.
Team Bayless - The takeover begins in 2009
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