Hedo
by Ben Golliver on Jun 14, 2009 1:46 PM PDT
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PrintChris Sheridan of ESPN.com takes a closer look at Hedo Turkoglu's situation, acting under the assumption that he will opt out once the Lakers finish off the Magic. Hedo has had a phenomenal run in the playoffs this year and is a name put forward by a few people, most notably Mike Barrett, as someone that the Blazers might target.
Sheridan runs through each possible suitor (teams with enough cap room to make him a better offer than Orlando might be willing to pay or teams that might be interested in a sign-and-trade with the Magic) and Portland makes the short list.
Here's Sheridan's analysis regardind the Blazers.
Because Darius Miles went back on the Blazers' books for $9 million midway through the 2009-10 season, their cap space for the upcoming season has shrunk to somewhere around $7-9 million, depending on whether they renounce their rights to overseas players Petteri Koponen and Joel Freeland.
Some sources, while cautioning against Portland's proclivity for subterfuge, are saying the Blazers covet a point guard upgrade from Steve Blake more than they covet a small forward upgrade from Nicolas Batum. If that's the case, they might decide to swing an uneven trade, salary-wise, in which they use their cap space to bring in a top-tier point guard rather than Turkoglu or another small forward.
I wouldn't break the bank for Hedo although he would be a noticeable upgrade at the 3 and would certainly provide some starting lineup clarity. You can maybe shift Batum to a reserve role but it's Martell that really complicates things. Webster would be seeing negative playing time in that scenario, unless you can trade him, which would require convincing another team to take on 3 more years for a guy that hasn't stepped on an NBA basketball court (except to seriously injure his foot for the second time in 3 months) since the Spring of 2008.
At this point Hedo feels like a longshot. Indeed, just about any move for a big time 3 seems like a longshot given Webster's (questionable) health and Batum's publicly-discussed role in the Blazers future.
Draft a project 3 and stash him deep on the roster, in Europe or in the D-League? Sure, I can see that. But insert someone above Batum and Webster on the depth chart and marginalize those two guys? I won't complain if it happens. But I also won't be holding my breath.
On the bright side, it's good to know that the previously-discussed lopsided trade (uneven trade) is still in the mix. And Sheridan's line about upgrading the one is a life raft.
-- Ben (benjamin.golliver@gmail.com)
PS Here's Appleby_15's fanpost and accompanying discussion on the same article.
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taht?
gotcha… :-)
Brandon Roy, 'nuff said.
Best draft of all time: "1942, right after Pearl Harbor….everyone got drafted" --- 92wastheyear
would love to have Hedo BTW
would fit perfectly on our team
Brandon Roy, 'nuff said.
Best draft of all time: "1942, right after Pearl Harbor….everyone got drafted" --- 92wastheyear
As stated in Appleby's fanpost, the Magic said they will pay the luxury tax to keep Hedo and their core
"We’ve always avoided the tax, but winning has a crazy effect on people,‘’ [Magic President and CEO] Vander Weide said. "The [DeVos] family (which owns the team) is having fun right now. I don’t think anyone has a willingness to stay in tax for 10 years, but to go in for a few years to ride this out, I don’t think that’s threatening to our family short term.’’
http://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/06/12/magic-will-pay-luxury-tax-to-re-sign-hedo-turkoglu/
Hmmm...
So we have a team that is arse-deep in debt, in luxury tax hell, playing in AMWAY arena, about to build a new (unnecessary) replacement arena, willing to resign their 30 year old Euro forward who has a similar skillset to another forward that they just massively overpaid for.
All of this in the sweaty, artificial, overbuilt, armpit known as Orlando, Florida.
How fitting.
MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)
by The Cactus Leaguer on Jun 14, 2009 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
The major mistake was paying Lewis about $5 million per year too much ($30 million in total)
With no other team really bidding. The arena is owned by the city, they will be able to sustain that and make some additional profit from the suites.
I don't think Hedo is a good option for this team. We already have a bunch of shooters and bad defenders, we don't need another one.
Truth never was or can be propagated by fire and sword - Albert Gallatin
Bayless sucks! Trade him; or at least stop the annoying bayless homerism. his best case is gilbert arenas which is something the blazers don't want and don't need. He was a KP mistake.
I agree with Ben that Hedo Turkoglu is a long-shot to land on the Blazers...
He is a good player and could be attainable by Portland, but with only $5M tied up in Batum and Webster at the SF, with Rudy able to play swingman minutes as well, that wing/off-guard role is taken care of pretty well by three young prospects at very reasonable price tags. It just seems like more of a need to find a guard who will either be a defensive stopper or a penetrating scorer… or both combined. Blake just is not good enough on D, nor can he penetrate. We have cap room and Blake and Sergio to move for another PG which makes the most sense to this Blazers Fan.
by Portland Dynasty on Jun 14, 2009 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I do like the idea of having a "point forward"
and I suppose he’d be better than lamar odom (or at least more consistent) in that mold, but he would be pretty expensive (I assume 9+ million/yr) and uh, what Zaron5551 said.
The Blazers as a whole are far more like my wife than like me in the sense of their physicality on defense.
-Dave
i wonder if nic batum will ever turn into a point forward for us.
he’s shown signs he can be….i wonder if he’ll keep moving in that direction or not.
Finally, a sig without typeing mistakes.
thats probably not a bad estimation norsk
I don’t know if nic will ever be that guy, but lord knows martell and travis aren’t.
The Blazers as a whole are far more like my wife than like me in the sense of their physicality on defense.
-Dave
I have similar hopes for Nic
Also Nic can play some 4 next year Outlaw becomes redundant. His offense is pretty good now with 55.5% effective FG% in the 2nd half of the year and 66.7% in the playoffs. Give him a year to do strength training and he may be able to hold his own against stronger players who posted him up this year.
Would you target Rafer Alston?
Option 1: Trade Blake and Sergio for Rafer Alston before the end of the month. With Jameer coming back, Orlando might look to create room and they could get more room by moving Rafer instead of Anthony Johnson or Courtney Lees. By trading for Blake and Sergio and waiving Blake, they create room to retain Hedo; and can explore whether Sergio will flourish in their system as backup PG.
Option 2: After June 30, go after Hedo — if we get him great. If Orlando go into luxury tax territory to keep their star, they’d be even more motivated to deal for Rafer Alston. Can we use any of our exceptions to bring Alston in and get Orlando under luxury tax?
Of course, there is the implicit question, of whether Rafer would be an upgrade over Blake. Rafer has to be given credit for getting the Magic to the playoffs after being brought in to replace Nelson. To those that have watched the playoffs even after the Blazers exit, what are the thoughts on Rafer’s performance in the playoffs, and as potential Blazers PG?
its the most realistic option out there
and hardly anyone on BE is talking about it. I think because he’s not exactly a home run pick up but I guess it depends on when you think our championship window is opening. If you’re thinking next year then it makes sense to keep blake and get a guy like rafer. if we need a few more years then you might as well figure out if bayless is gonna be the guy now and not use his “development minutes” on a 32 year old pg who is slightly less effective than blake.
The Blazers as a whole are far more like my wife than like me in the sense of their physicality on defense.
-Dave
Maybe if we had Skip To My Lou/Young Money as our PG duo
That sure would be fun to watch !
Offseason:
PG Options: Mike Conley(T)/Rodrigue Beaubois(D)
SG Options: Mickaël Piétrus(T)
PF Options: Ronnie Turiaf(T) - Damion James(D), Taj Gibson(D), Kevin Seraphin(D)
C Options: Alexis Ajinca(T)
The French Invasion !
by TheGreatDane17 on Jun 14, 2009 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions
:D
Offseason:
PG Options: Mike Conley(T)/Rodrigue Beaubois(D)
SG Options: Mickaël Piétrus(T)
PF Options: Ronnie Turiaf(T) - Damion James(D), Taj Gibson(D), Kevin Seraphin(D)
C Options: Alexis Ajinca(T)
The French Invasion !
by TheGreatDane17 on Jun 16, 2009 6:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Was looking at possibly Rafer and Bayless without Blake and Sergio
Magic is known as a defensive team and Magic have one of the top centers. Before that he was starting PG for similar style at Houston. So I would hope that Rafer brings the experience of successfully playing the kind of half-court game that Nate and the Blazers are driving towards. During the playoffs, teams have deliberately “disrespected” Rafer (double on Dwight and not leave Hedo and Rashard open) — and Rafer has usually made them pay, ala 15 pt third quarter against Boston, …
I would expect Rafer to be more effective in the basic game plan, and as a bonus he can run a fast break. The goal would be to start Rafer with the intention of making way for Bayless, or whoever else might be found as the eventual PG of the future.
Would Rafer like Portland?
How would you feel playing in Portland if you were a playground legend in NYC? I bet he’ll go to the Knicks who really need that uptempo PG to replace Duhan (unless Sergio is the ONE).
I dunno, ask Bassy.
The Blazers as a whole are far more like my wife than like me in the sense of their physicality on defense.
-Dave
Cant comment on affinity to city, but
from a playing style perspective, we are trying to be what Houston and Orlando are like, with a couple of tweaks of our own. Given that Rafer’s been reasonably successful with HOU and ORL, I cant see him disagreeing to the playing style.
He’s been a starter for the last 6 years, and would expect that he’s not quite ready to be a backup. Portland could offer him the chance to be a starter with a view to training his replacement — very soothing for the ego. Plus POR has a much better shot at a championship than does NYK.
Here's Sheridan's analysis regardind the Blazers.
regarding…
I have my P.h.D in unreliable hyperbole.
by Eat Politicians on Jun 14, 2009 3:01 PM PDT reply actions
I think if we do a serious upgrade at the three...
…two out of three players (Outlaw, Batum, Webster, and Rudy) would have to be dealt. I only throw Rudy in there because Martell could possibly play back-up at the 2 guard. If we do go for an all-star calibre 3 I hope we keep Rudy and Batum, with Rudy backing up Brandon and Batum developing behind the new guy. It’d have to be someone like Gerald Wallace, Caron Butler, or Paul Pierce to make me salivate over this idea though.
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."
Maybe Tayshaun, too.
But in my opinion I believe he has already given his best to Detroit. And, if we’re gonna talk about championships, we have to be ready to deal with LeBron. We already know how Tayshaun dealt with him….not very well. I realize no one guy is going to stop LB23, but I think what he did to Tayshaun shows us that we need a three that is big and strong. I still think Martell could develop into that guy – he’s got the right bone-structure and looked pretty buff at the beginning of last season.
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."
Caron Butler
Butler is the guy: rebounding, steals, hard headed defense, and his drives will take some of the pressure off BROY and Lamarcus. Washington is way over the luxury tax and said to want to unload salary, so an unbalanced trade is possible. The others you mention are great players, but IMHO Butler is the guy who would give us the most positives. Put a dynamite wing like Butler into the lineup, and keeping Blake doesn’t look so bad as long as he continues to hit his 3’s.
Yet like Orlando and probably Detroit, Washington has the plan to continue to contend
That likely won’t work in a conference with Boston, Orlando, Cleveland, Miami, … But it is their plan nonetheless, thinking they never really had their “Big 3” together for a whole season. They are even shopping their draft pick since they don’t think any available rookie would immediately crack their starting lineup or even rotation and help them.
That’s why I assume neither Hedo nor Prince nor Butler will hit the market (Prince only if they could get Bosh). And if the Wizards wanted to save money for the future, they would ship out Jamison before Butler, who is older and has a worse contract. My best bet for an available SF upgrade out of the East continues to be Gerald Wallace and Richard Jefferson, and Wallace won’t come cheap and I’m not sure I would even want RJ.
Washington's situation
I agree Washington doesn’t want to, but their options are so limited. Who would take on Arenas (5 more years at an incredible salary) or Jamison (who will still make more than Lamarcus after he is resigned)? They’re stuck bad, plus Etan Thomas. I’m hoping they have to begin somewhere with whoever is most marketable. Whom they would want/accept from our team (I’m guessing Outlaw) is really the question.
I like Wallace too, but his previous injury problems and his all out style of play make him a poor choice. I think I read that Jefferson was “untouchable” towards the end of the year. (Or is that the pat on the back before the kiss off?) His salary is significantly higher, though, and I believe he is older as well.
We had all of these discussions at the trading deadline
And frankly, KP was in a much better position to “help” teams with their salary cap issues when he still had RLEC. If Washington had wanted to deal Butler and Thomas for some humongous cap relief, that was when they should’ve pulled the trigger
by two4larue on Jun 14, 2009 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
trading deadline replay
As I remember, it was KP’s judgement to keep the team together for this year. Last year is now over; KP may now be more willing to tinker. Perhaps Washington was a willing partner then? Just pure speculation on my part. I do wonder how enthused they were when Arenas showed little enthusiasm for returning from injury, and at 18M p/yr.
Geez, I sure hope KP's more willing to tinker
But now he’s got less to offer the Wiz for Butler, so I suspect that ship has sailed
(If it ever was “in port” in the first place)
I have no interest in Arenas and Jamison. (Back in February I think I put together a Caron Butler+Etan Thomas for RLEC+etc trade proposal and ran it through the ESPN trade machine, just for fun)
gerald wallace = starting SF
and i would be willing to let outlaw go for him since wallace can play the 4 in our small ball line up
The Blazers will play beautiful basketball.
Brandon will shoot the lights out. Blake will run and LMA will finish strong at the hoop. Bayless will play because we’ll be so far ahead in the 4th quarter, giving all the Jerryd fans something to smile about.
But wait, that’s not all. Rudy will go 5 of 5 from distance. Batum will posterize someone. And Channing will NOT lead the team in points.
qoute from ofred
turkey glue
would be great on our team I think, I just don’t like the scenario presented (that are doable) in order to get him. Unfortunately I think we are in a wait and see pattern for the 3 this year. However, next year, depending on what happens we might need a 3. My hope though, is that we won’t…
I have my P.h.D in unreliable hyperbole.
by Eat Politicians on Jun 14, 2009 3:02 PM PDT reply actions
Wouldn't it be great if Martell had a "break out" year?
He was about to when his foot broke. How good can he become. If KP and Nate truly believe in this group, the only upgrade will be a rebounding PF to back up Lamarcus and a third string PG to replace Sergio. And wouldn’t a third string center/banger be nice too, just in case?
agreed
I do think that if Martell is able to recover from this injury (which could be nagging, I won’t argue that, foot injuries can be bad) then he has the capacity to be our starting 3 with Batum as backup. It’s possible that Nic will overtake Martell, but he has the full 3 package. Shooting range, inside game, and respectable D. He is also a 20-30 minute guy so Batum still gets 10-20 minutes a game.
I have my P.h.D in unreliable hyperbole.
by Eat Politicians on Jun 14, 2009 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Sources say Sheridan has been secretly studying to take the SATs.
“Proclivity for subterfuge”…wow.
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
i dont know why we're looking at the 3 at all.
we need a big, tough, rebounding, defending 4 and if we can upgrade a starting pointguard we should do that too.
on that note, though, i rewatched blazers at suns from november 2008 yesterday, where we LOST, but it was still a fun game to rewatch, anyways, blake was pretty hot, scored 14 points in the 3rd quarter, contained nash pretty well. if the blazers field blake, backed up by bayless this year we’ll be fine at the point.
"So, then, I was like, it'd be really dirty if I put up 42. So I did!" -Brandon Roy, post-game comments after game 2 of the first round of the 2009 NBA Playoffs
And for the 4
How would Drew Gooden fit in? Not sure how much he’ll be looking for, but he proved in Chicago he was a capable backup but poor starter; he might jump at the chance to play here.
Agreed about the 3
We already have 5 options at the 3 — three potential starters in Batum, Outlaw, and Webster, plus two fill-ins in Roy and Fernandez. We could easily lose one of those, and we don’t need to gain any. It seems like a big mistake to add a high-salary guy like Turkoglu, who will only make it harder to keep the core of Roy-LMA-GO under contract. It’s not that he isn’t good — he’s just too expensive at a position where there isn’t a big need. A cheap but effective 3 like Batum is totally the answer.
Sticking up for Travis Outlaw since 2008 and Steve Blake since two weeks ago.
Starter quality?
The problem is that none of those options is really a great one if you’re talking about trying to get deep into the playoffs. Outlaw will never be an NBA three. Webster hasn’t shown enough in his time in the league to be considered anything more than average at that spot. Batum is the best bet but doesn’t look in danger to be the kind of slashing/scoring threat that will take the pressure off Roy.
I can understand leaving the three spot alone. But that pretty much means to me that either LMA or Oden HAVE to have a decent inside game on show this coming season.
Lol, Magic fans have slightly different ideas what it takes to get Hedo
http://www.thirdquartercollapse.com/2009/6/13/908380/i-want-hedo-turkoglu-in-red-and
- Roy
- Batum, Bayless and Przybilla
- Travis, Joel or LaMarcus
- Hedo isn’t moving (well, I would agree)
If my team gets to the Finals
and are competive, I’m not blowing up the core next year to save a little scratch. The Magic are a couple of key plays (and a little seasoning) away from leading the Lakers 3-1.
The Magic are a couple of key plays away from leading the Lakers 3-1
Ain’t it the truth? One missed layin (that technically was a goaltend) and they win game 2
1 out of 2 from the line from Howard and they probably win game 4
Plus they got lucky when Yao hurt his foot (again)
It sucks. But maybe they’ll be overconfident next year?
Roy?
HA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA…They want Roy, AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA….
yeah, not so much…Hedo a good player but let’s get serious…
I have my P.h.D in unreliable hyperbole.
by Eat Politicians on Jun 14, 2009 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions
In Nate McMillan's high/low zone offense, Hedo Turkoglu would be a ballside wing (i.e., shooting guard) ...
instead of a weakside cornerman (i.e., small forward); thus, there’s no room for him here. That doesn’t even acknowledge Turkoglu’s porous perimeter defense, which is the main quality trait needed in a small forward for the Portland Trail Blazers.
Along with the ill-advised proposal of acquiring Tayshaun Prince, Turkoglu is another player who is overrated, would come at too high of a cost, and not fit in well here.
Prior to the 2009 NBA Draft, Kevin Pritchard’s main focus should be on trading the non-guaranteed contracts of Steve Blake and Travis Outlaw for Kirk Hinrich — with the expectation that the Chicago Bulls will cut Blake, while he subsequently signs back with Portland as an unrestricted free-agent after the July moratorium — as well as moving Sergio Rodriguez to the New York Knicks for a couple of 2010 second-round draft picks.
Hinrich not the key that opens all doors
After we resign RBROY and Lamarcus this summer/fall, we will no longer have significant cap space next year, or for any year following. This is the only summer there is a sliver of a chance to get a highly productive starter at PG or SF. I would be disappointed if the best KP can do happens to be Hinrich.
that's not true
Hinrich is skinny enough to be shaped into a key…
I have my P.h.D in unreliable hyperbole.
by Eat Politicians on Jun 14, 2009 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Jameer Nelson???
What if Portland targets Nelson instead of Rafer? I mean, there are a couple of things that would go into this thinking. First, Alston just lead Orlando to the finals playing point, so they know they can be a good team with him. Next, obviously Nelson is thought of as the better player, so he would get more in return. Also, the Magic would preferably like to trade one of them and avoid a point guard log jam. Well, what if the Blazers offered Outlaw and Rudy or Jameer Nelson? If I’m Orlando, I have to think seriously about that deal. I mean, Rudy would start and fit in perfectly with Orlando the way they like to shoot threes. He’d be an absolute star. And as much as Outlaw may not fit in with our team, he still is a good player, who is instant offense off the bench. I’d love Jameer to be the point in Portland, and honestly one big concern I have with this deal is whether or not it would make the Magic too good?
I think Orlando is too sly for that. They know Nelson is the better PG of the two and they still don’t know how good he can be. I think I’d do that deal in a heartbeat (Travis and Rudy for Nelson) but I don’t know that it would work salary-wise and think the Magic would be nuts to pull the trigger.
"I take the little gummy bear Flintstones vitamins…I try not to eat the lady. I try not to eat the man. Just give me the car. I try to find the car. Yea, worst case scenario, I eat the lady." - Ron Artest, 2009
Ill pass
hedo kills the ball to much for me he get the ball looks around for 5 seconds then dribbles around for 10 seconds then chunks up a shot. If a outlaw basher co signs going after hedo ill flip hedo is a over paid over hyped version of outlaw … and not as good in my opinion.
The Blazers will play beautiful basketball.
Brandon will shoot the lights out. Blake will run and LMA will finish strong at the hoop. Bayless will play because we’ll be so far ahead in the 4th quarter, giving all the Jerryd fans something to smile about.
But wait, that’s not all. Rudy will go 5 of 5 from distance. Batum will posterize someone. And Channing will NOT lead the team in points.
qoute from ofred
Does anyone think that Luke Walton could be a (very) poor man's Turkoglu
I’m not sure myself, but I find it an intriguing thought. He certainly doesn’t shoot or penetrate as well as Hedo, but he’s a better defender and a very good passer. I think he would be great on the second unit, especially if Sergio is dealt; with his court vision, he might help soften the blow of losing Sergio’s passing skills.
Overall, I see him as kind of the anti-Trout: not a great shooter or athlete and can’t really create his own shot, but a decent defender, a good energy/hustle player, and a great passer (5.5 assists per 36 minutes this year). I think he could back up the 4 some, as well. And his contract, although long, isn’t too bad: 4.8, 5.3, 5.7, and 6.1 million over the next four years. If the Lakers are looking to keep both Ariza and Odom, they may decide to clear some salary just to keep the luxury tax hit from being too bad. If we offered a straight up trade of Walton for Outlaw (especially before July 1), they might bite.
I would have two somewhat related concerns about doing this deal: 1) he doesn’t provide a lot of production for the money, especially since there’s a decent chance he gets beat out for playing time by both Webster and Batum; and 2) if the Blazers do trade Outlaw, KP could probably get more in return than Walton. However, I still think he would be a good veteran presence on the team and could definitely help facilitate the offense on the second unit (and by offense, I mean sick passes to Rudy for dunks).
that would have to be an extremely poor man
Walton has game…Rec center game…
I have my P.h.D in unreliable hyperbole.
by Eat Politicians on Jun 14, 2009 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
A homeless person. That owes another bum money.
Like, that broke.
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."
by GonzoFan on Jun 14, 2009 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Recs for both of you
made me laugh !
Offseason:
PG Options: Mike Conley(T)/Rodrigue Beaubois(D)
SG Options: Mickaël Piétrus(T)
PF Options: Ronnie Turiaf(T) - Damion James(D), Taj Gibson(D), Kevin Seraphin(D)
C Options: Alexis Ajinca(T)
The French Invasion !
by TheGreatDane17 on Jun 16, 2009 7:00 AM PDT up reply actions
A homeless person...
…that owes another bum money. That
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."
I don't know how this happened.
Oops. Sorry for the double post.
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."
Hedo is not the answer
Watching him reminds me of something we already have…B-roy. He needs the ball in his hands to be affective and dribbles the clock out to many times. His game is very similar to roys. The offense would be even more stagnant.
Pass on Hedo, Prince, Heinrich et cetera.
Throw all caution to the wind and go after Steph Curry. He’d fit the bill perfectly to pair up with Brandon. Sure, it would be great to have someone who can shoot as well as Curry that also plays lock down defense, but try to name just two players like that already existing in the NBA.
Curry is not only a shooter, is has Brandon Roy type basketball instincts.
GET CURRY! Pick from our trade chips of Bayless, T-Law, Sergio, Martel, Frye, #24, Freeland, 2nd round picks, and next year’s #1 to get it done.
Brandon Roy just destroyed everything in his path. There's your rational analysis -- Dave
Also: COMCAST SUCKS!
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