Top 5 misunderstandings about what the Blazers can do this summer with regards to the salary cap
by Storyteller on Jun 12, 2009 11:10 AM PDT
64 comments
I’ve seen some misunderstandings about salary cap issues posted here and on other forums over the last couple of weeks. Just to be clear about these issues, here are the misconceptions, followed by the truth as outlined in the Collective Bargaining Agreement:
Misconception #1: If Portland gets below the cap, they can use their cap space and then use the Mid-Level Exception (MLE), Bi-Annual Exception (BAE) and trade exception to finish out the roster
The truth is that exceptions count against the cap unless they are renounced. So in order to get below the cap in July, Portland would have to renounce the exceptions that they currently have. These renounced exceptions would be lost forever and cannot be regained. The ‘big’ exceptions would be the MLE, the BAE and (if they still haven’t used it before getting below the cap) the trade exception gained in the Diogu trade. So, even if the team goes above the cap at a later time in the season, they would not be able to regain these lost exceptions to use in player acquisitions.
Misconception#2: Portland can renounce Raef LaFrentz to get cap space, then sign-and-trade him for a $15+million deal
It’s not wisely publicized, so it’s easy to understand why some have never heard this, but re-signing a player using Bird rights is using an exception. So, in line with the information in #1 above, getting below the salary cap would necessitate that the Blazers renounce their Bird rights to LaFrentz. Therefore, the most that they could sign-and-trade him for would be the amount of cap space that they had. Unless the Blazers were miraculously able to get $15 million in cap space, they could not sign LaFrentz to this large of a contract.
Misconception #3: If the Blazers have $7 million in cap space, they can take back $8.85 million more than they send out in a trade using the 125% + $100,000 trade rule
Again, not widely publicized, but the 125% + $100,000 rule is an exception for teams over the cap. It’s impossible to combine cap room with an exception, therefore the most that the Blazers could take back in trade if they had $7 million in cap space would be $7.1 million.
Misconception #4: Now that Miles is back on the books for $9 million, Portland can trade him as an expiring contract
Contracts are never traded, players are traded. Portland waived Darius Miles over a year ago, and a team cannot trade a player that has been waived, regardless of whether or not a team is paying that player.
Misconception #5: If the Blazers get cap space, they will not be able to use any exceptions until July 1, 2010
A few days ago, I saw this over-reaction on another forum. And it’s not true. It is true that if Portland gets below the cap, they lose any exceptions that they have earned up until that point. However, once they go above the cap, they can once again use certain exceptions (such as the minimum player exception) and start once again to accumulate others (such as trade exceptions). It is true that they will not be able to use the MLE or the BAE until the 2010-11 season, but the idea that they would not be able to use any exceptions until then is just not true.
If any of this doesn't make sense (because I know that these issues can be confusing) post a comment below with additional or follow-up questions and either myself or someone else should be able to post an answer.
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Great job. I have another one: The Blazers can somehow rescue or even increase their cap space until summer 2010
And, duh, in 2010 there are many more quality free agents.
Technically yeah, since the only player currently guaranteed to be under contract for the 2010-11 season is Martell Webster. Every other player as the roster stands could be “optional” (Joel ETO; Steve and Travis expiring; option years for Greg, Jerryd, Nic, Rudy; qualifying offers for Roy, LaMarcus, Sergio).
But if we expect to pick up the options (which should be a given) and re-sign Roy and LMA (and potentially Travis and Sergio and Steve) to new deals no matter if they sign it this year (then the new contract just kicks in in the summer of 2010) or negotiations take until next summer (then the Blazers at least would have to make them a qualifying offer to make them restricted free agents, resulting in a big cap hold).
The only real variable is if Joel opts out. Either way, we will be above or at least not significantly below the cap even if no big salary free agents get acquired now.
The latest point in time to use the cap space to make lopsided trades is the trade deadline, after that we might might might be able to acquire some veteran free agent (a la Drew Gooden or Joe Smith this year) that a team wants to waive before the playoffs – but it’s a high risk to wait until then.
by Norsktroll on Jun 12, 2009 11:29 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
2010
yeah, lamarcus and brandon are gonna be making too much money, we’re not gonna get lebron james, so lets go out and find the players that help us BEAT lebron james
by StocktonNEP on Jun 16, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seems we may be better off not to have cap space.
Focus on our ability to do sign and trades with ungauranteed contracts with players like TO,Blake, and resigning Raef with an ungauranteed contract where he recieves some money but gives us the ability to take back players with high contracts. Paul Allen would have to be willing to pay the luxury, but given the times I would imagine the Blazers could pick up a high quality player for little loss in talent due to the trading teams desire to dump contracts.
This would have to happen after the draft, but I realize this is a stretch, maybe the reason the Blazers did not feel that had to cash in the RLEC chip when the trade deadline came along. Because in a way he could still be used as a trading chip at the end of the season, so long as he is willing to participate. Am I incorrect in this thinking?
If the Blazers did this would they still have their mid level exception?
Phenom post thank you for imparting your knowledge on us.
by Titlein2011 on Jun 12, 2009 11:31 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Any sign-and-trade deal
must be at least 3 years in length, with the first year fully guaranteed. It would also necessitate that Raef (since he’s who we’re talking about) ‘make himself available to play’ for the other team. More than simply passing a physical, he must have the intent to play basketball for them.
As for TO and Blake, any trade that happens before June 30th gives the other team the chance to cut them as an unguaranteed contract. Any ‘sign-and-trade’ involving them would have to fall under the same restrictions listed above and they would be fully guaranteed for at least one year.
And, yes, if Portland held onto Bird rights for LaFrentz, they would be over the cap and still have their MLE.
by Storyteller on Jun 12, 2009 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would you expect the Blazers hold onto their bird rights (Raef, Frye, ...) until after the draft, and then renounce them as needed?
by Norsktroll on Jun 12, 2009 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I expect that the Blazers
won’t renounce anyone until they actually have a need for cap space, which wouldn’t be a need until sometime in July.
by Storyteller on Jun 12, 2009 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
although that intent to play is kinda iffy
KVH didnt even really try..
by GreatOden'sRaven on Jun 12, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
alright who are you? and if you tell me just a fan you must have some legal back ground...
or interests to be so up on all the contractual information of the NBA. Maybe you were locked up with only a version of the NBA’s CBA. What ever it is I am very impressed Andy Dufresne/Tom Penn.
Story teller is right, you are not being honest with who you are.
From what you are saying, the Raef signing would still work for a team wanting to unload salary and give them the ability to be players in the 2010 free agency stakes. I.E. Chris Paul and Peja for Raef, TO, Blake, Bayless, Batum, and Rudy. I understand this is far fetched but still plausible from what you are saying. Thanks again.
by Titlein2011 on Jun 12, 2009 12:10 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
storyteller is a regular who has his own site
full of awesome contract information. he SHOULD work the blazers, but if he did, he wouldnt be able to share this info with us.. so enjoy it while we can.
by GreatOden'sRaven on Jun 12, 2009 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL!
I was a fan of the Blazers who used to post on Oregonlive 10 years ago. And every time I made a trade proposal, I was told, “Can’t happen under trade rules”. So frustrated by being told that my brilliant ideas wouldn’t work in the real world, I started reading Larry Coon’s FAQ about the Salary Cap and the CBA. Later, when the CBA iself was posted on the NBPA site, I started reading it directly. And slowly, over the years, it started sinking in.
In 2002, I was trying to find good player salary information on the web. About all there was to be found was on Hoopshype – and I found errors in that. So, I started keeping track of player salaries for myself on a spreadsheet. People on message boards asked for copies of the spreadsheet, which I was more than happy to share, but one day I realized it would just be easier to post the information on a webpage.
That’s my story. I’m a former pastor who now works as a Controller here in Las Vegas. And I’ve been a fan of the Blazers since 1982.
by Storyteller on Jun 12, 2009 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions 6 recs
he’s also my salary cap consultant. i pay him in recs.
by Ben. on Jun 12, 2009 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
I ante'd up for both of you
Storyteller because of his general awesomeness, and Ben for the good idea of paying him off in recs. – Elgin
VENTURA: It's drowning. It gives you the complete sensation that you are drowning. It is no good, because you -- I'll put it to you this way, you give me a waterboard, Dick Cheney and one hour, and I'll have him confess to the Sharon Tate murders.
by 22baylor on Jun 12, 2009 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me chip a little
"You're welcome friend
I love you."
- Tom "Dragline" inHawaii
by 92wastheyear on Jun 12, 2009 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Controller? That's the sweet spot.
Way more power than a bookkeeper, way less politics than a CFO.
by conspirator5 on Jun 16, 2009 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, yeah,
theoretically Raef could be traded this summer and come off of the other team’s books on July 1st, 2010. You’re right about it being far-fetched, IMO, but if Raef is willing to show intent to play ball, it’s possible.
by Storyteller on Jun 12, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just wondering....
Say the Blazers target a certain key player, or a certain key draft pick, and as part of the overall trade take back an unfavorable long-term contract. Could Raef be signed (at whatever salary needed to qualify as a legit trade) to a three-year deal, with only the first year guaranteed, but with the first year pre-paid in full by the Blazers (with no payments due from the other franchise) to further entice a cash-strapped franchise?
IF so, other than the cash out-of-pocket for the Blazers, would any negatives be attached to the overall Blazer salary cap structure when compared to an ordinary transaction where the Blazers did not pre-pay in full?
Another question, if the Blazers are pursuing a restricted free agent, can the Blazers tender an offer for that free agent that includes as a condition of the offer that the entire contract (for example, a four year contract) is paid in full at the time of signing? If so, in order for the franchise (holding the restricted rights to that player) to retain that player, would they also have to abide by the same condition, full payment of the multi-year deal at the time of signing?
by puako on Jun 12, 2009 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would almost swear
you can’t do that prepay
"You're welcome friend
I love you."
- Tom "Dragline" inHawaii
by 92wastheyear on Jun 12, 2009 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
92 is correct
You can only pay a maximum of 20% of the contract upfront as a signing bonus.
by Storyteller on Jun 13, 2009 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rec'd
For good information.
RIP CITY - We're back! | Being a Caniac, always blowing off steam ;)
by CyclonicWinds on Jun 12, 2009 12:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to write a FanPost using all those misconceptions
by tominhawaii on Jun 12, 2009 1:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
And since you're TiH
You don’t have to follow the rules you wrote out yesterday. It will be epic!
Aut disce, aut discede; manet sors tertia, caedi
by Occam's Blazer on Jun 12, 2009 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
...
read sig
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
by nima on Jun 13, 2009 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'd like to add
IMO or IMHO
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
by ratbastird on Jun 16, 2009 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question about a Sign and Trade...
Say we do a sign and trade with Raef for another team. The deal goes down, but like the NO/OKC deal, he doesn’t pass the physical. Are we then stuck with him on our roster for another 3 years?
by actwentysix on Jun 12, 2009 3:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
No. In that case the whole deal would be voided (also for any other players in the deal).
This already happened to the Blazers in 2005 when a sign & trade of Shareef Abdur-Rahim to the Nets was rescinded by them because he failed the physical. Ten days later he left to the Kings as a free agent. Transaction history
Also in a sign and trade with a player like Raef only the first year of the three years would be guaranteed, effectively making him a new expiring contract. The league has lowered the standards for what a player must do quite a bit by accepting the Keith Van Horn (who had all but retired) and Aaron McKie deals (who had already gone on to be an assistant coach). Reporting to the new team and doing some physical tests is effectively enough.
by Norsktroll on Jun 12, 2009 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another misconception that many people have here is the viability of signing-and-trading Channing Frye.
Regarding guys used in sign-and-trade deals as a throw-in, Raef LaFrentz is truly the only realistic option. The Portland Trail Blazers don’t have Bird rights on Michael Ruffin or Shavlik Randolph — which should also be the case for Channing Frye, who’ll probably be non-tendered by 6/30/2009 — therefore, it’s Raef LaFrentz and his immense cap hold of $19,083,750 (i.e., 150% of his salary this past season) who’d hypothetically be used in such a move.
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q30
Of course, not renouncing LaFrentz and hanging onto his Bird rights means staying over the salary cap. Now, there’s differening viewpoints concerning the practicality of this — especially considering the value of roughly $7 million in salary cap space versus retaining the mid-level exception, the bi-annual exception, and what’s left of the $2,912,823 trade exception after the July moratorium — but that’s neither here nor there. Rather, the most important part is that neither Frye, Ruffin, nor Randolph are viable sign-and-trade options like LaFrentz.
Finally, with regards to the salary cap, I fully advocate making a few transactions before 6/30/2009 — such as trading the non-guaranteed contracts of Steve Blake and Travis Outlaw to the Chicago Bulls for Kirk Hinrich — and staying over the salary cap after the July moratorium by not renouncing Raef LaFrentz’s Bird rights, the mid-level exception, the bi-annual exception, et cetera.
by AK1984 on Jun 12, 2009 9:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I actually think that a Frye sign-and-trade would be more viable but less likely
It all has to do with the other team. If Portland is going to use (for example) $6 million in cap space to sign-and-trade you a player, which would you rather have, Frye or LaFrentz? Given equal contracts (3 years but only the first fully guaranteed), 29 teams out of 29 would choose Frye. That makes such a deal more viable. Even if the first year was much higher because Bird Rights were used instead of cap space, 29 out of 29 would take Frye over LaFrentz.
However, Frye would be much, much, much more reluctant to sign that sort of contract. That makes such a deal less likely, IMO.
Maybe it’s just semantics. But that’s the way I look at it.
by Storyteller on Jun 13, 2009 7:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great Post
I’m still a little interested in the trading of Raef LaFrentz? How exactly could we do this, and what is the time table. Is there any way we could sign him before July 1st? Can you please outlay any examples where Raef may still be used as an asset? I’m really curious about this, and I feel like no one has been talking about it. Is this the way the Blazers can add another big time player that no one has been thinking about?
by mballer225 on Jun 14, 2009 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Has the Darius Miles appeal been resolved?
This off season would be so much easier if the team got back his cap space. I’m not expecting that the Blazers will win an appeal but is there any hope? One thing is clear we came out of that situation paying double. No player and no contract to trade. If Darius doesn’t find a team this year we wll know that Boston and Memphis were out to ruin our summer.
by Jacksonville on Jun 12, 2009 9:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I haven't heard anything about an appeal
I would assume that one has been made.
According to this article by the Memphis Commercial Appeal:
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/may/14/grizzly-forward-darius-miles-charged-pot/
the Grizzlies probably won’t be bringing him back for 2009-10. I can’t speak for the other 28 teams in the league.
by Storyteller on Jun 13, 2009 7:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the response and the link
Darius tutors OJ Mayo on his patented puff-puff pump fake puff-puff pass. When the new CBA is negotiated the owners have to improve methods for shedding dead weight from the salary cap. When teams have to spend 2/3 of the cap space on nonproductive and noncontributing players then something is not working. Paul Allen has spent mad jack getting rid of the Jailblazers.
by Jacksonville on Jun 13, 2009 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is my question as well...
The thing that is unfair about it is that the Blazers would not have waived him if the NBA and NBAPA’s independent doctor had not declared him unable to play again. They would have just held onto him and he would have been this year’s RLEC (DMEC?).
MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)
by The Cactus Leaguer on Jun 15, 2009 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question for StoryTeller or AK1984
What are the rules of using the bird rights? How far over the cap can you go by using the bird exception? Can you continue to go over the cap(pay luxery tax obviously) signing players who have attained “bird rights”?
Offseason:
PG Options: Mike Conley(T)
SG Options: Terrence Williams(D)
Forward Options: Ronnie Turiaf(T) - Damion James(D), Taj Gibson(D), Kevin Seraphin(D)
by TheGreatDane17 on Jun 12, 2009 9:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Anyone?...
Offseason:
PG Options: Mike Conley(T)/Rodrigue Beaubois(D)
SG Options: Mickaël Piétrus(T)
PF Options: Ronnie Turiaf(T) - Damion James(D), Taj Gibson(D), Kevin Seraphin(D)
C Options: Alexis Ajinca(T)
The French Invasion !
by TheGreatDane17 on Jun 13, 2009 7:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good questions
If a player has played for 3 years without being waived or changing teams as a free agent during that period, that person’s team can go over the Salary Cap to re-sign him using Bird Rights (it’s actually called the Qualifying Veteran Free Agent Exception in the CBA but is named for Larry Bird since the Celtics were the first to use this exception for the purposes of keeping Bird on their team)
Using Bird rights, a team can sign a player to the maximum allowable under the CBA for that player. That amount is in most cases a certain percentage of the Salary Cap – 25% of the cap if he’s played 3-6 years, 30% of the cap if he’s played 7-9 years or 35% of the cap if he’s played 10+ years. However, if the player made more than that percentage in the last year of his previous contract, the maximum allowable is 105% of his previous salary.
There’s no limit to the number of players that a team can sign using Bird Rights. On my spreadsheets, I have a column near the right hand side that lists (to the best of my knowledge) how that player was signed – using Bird rights, Early Bird rights, cap space, etc. If you just glance at Dallas, for example, I believe that 9 of their players were re-signed using Bird Rights.
If you want to read up further, Bird rights are explained in Larry Coon’s FAQ #19
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q19
Or for the really adventurous, in Section VII – 6 – b – 1 of the Collective Bargaining Agreement
by Storyteller on Jun 13, 2009 8:12 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks a lot !
Offseason:
PG Options: Mike Conley(T)/Rodrigue Beaubois(D)
SG Options: Mickaël Piétrus(T)
PF Options: Ronnie Turiaf(T) - Damion James(D), Taj Gibson(D), Kevin Seraphin(D)
C Options: Alexis Ajinca(T)
The French Invasion !
by TheGreatDane17 on Jun 13, 2009 8:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's a question.
Lets assume that the Blazers don’t make any moves that would use the potential capspace this year. So the Blazers end up with 5.8 million-ish (or more, depending on the usual variables) in space to work with. Is there anything coming down the pipeline that would erase the capspace before the 2010 trade deadline? In other words, can we reasonably retain the ability to make lopsided trades through Februrary 2010?
If the answer is yes, does that change anyone’s mind that a move mustbe made this summer? I’m of the opinion that a move should be made this summer, but if the capspace remains through the season, I can understand if everything stays the way it is.
εἴγε καὶ ἐνδυσάμενοι οὐ γυμνοὶ εὑρεθησόμεθα.
by T Darkstar on Jun 12, 2009 9:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes
I’m expecting that Roy and Aldridge will sign extensions this summer that will start counting against the cap in 2010-11. Those alone should push the Blazers well above the cap.
However, even if they do not sign extensions, they will be free agents next summer, and un-renounced free agents count against the cap. In the case of both Roy and Aldridge, their ‘cap holds’ will be well over $10 million each. And there’s no way (short of a career ending injury) that the team renounces either one and loses their Bird Rights.
I don’t see any way that by standing pat, the Blazers can put themselves in a position to be under the cap in the summer of 2010.
by Storyteller on Jun 13, 2009 8:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure that answers Darkstar's question
Signing extensions will certainly affect 2010 summer but the question seems to be about 2010 trade deadline in February of 2010 before those extensions kick in?
by lee3022 on Jun 14, 2009 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The cap space could be kept until the deadline, although it would get smaller by filling the roster (13 players minimum)
It could even be kept until the deadline to sign free agents for the playoffs, but that is very theoretical since the right guys we would need are rarely available then. More like the Joe Smith’s and Drew Gooden’s.
by Norsktroll on Jun 14, 2009 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, did I read the question wrong or what?
Sorry about that, darkstar….
Norsktroll has it right – the only thing that would eat up salary cap room would be personnel acquistions between July 1st and the trade deadline. Theoretically, the Blazers could be under the cap in February.
That being said, KP and the front office have historically been reluctant to make major mid-season deals. I think they prefer to use the summer for change, then stay relatively consistent throughout the season….
by Storyteller on Jun 15, 2009 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I tried to blow up the trade machine
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=mhfrcl
Offseason:
PG Options: Mike Conley(T)
SG Options: Terrence Williams(D)
Forward Options: Ronnie Turiaf(T) - Damion James(D), Taj Gibson(D), Kevin Seraphin(D)
by TheGreatDane17 on Jun 12, 2009 10:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You should check out this six-team, twenty-player trade proposal of mine from 12/24/2006.
“The following is a six-team, twenty-player trade proposal that involves the Atlanta Hawks, the Chicago Bulls, the Dallas Mavericks, the Miami Heat, the Phoenix Suns, and the Seattle Supersonics.
FROM ATLANTA
PF Shelden Williams ($2,952,840)
SG Royal Ivey ($744,551)
2007 First-Round Draft Pick (Via The Indiana Pacers)
FROM CHICAGO
C P.J. Brown ($8,000,000)
SG Ben Gordon ($3,862,080)
SF Luol Deng ($2,614,440)
FROM DALLAS
SF Austin Croshere ($7,300,000)
FROM MIAMI
SG James Posey ($6,392,100)
PG Gary Payton ($1,178,348)
C Earl Barron ($744,551)
FROM PHOENIX
PF Kurt Thomas ($7,335,625)
SF Jumaine Jones ($998,967)
2007 First-Round Draft Pick
2007 First-Round Draft Pick (Via The Atlanta Hawks)
2007 First-Round Draft Pick (Via The Cleveland Cavaliers Through The Boston Celtics)
FROM SEATTLE
SG Ray Allen ($14,611,570)
SF Rashard Lewis ($9,350,649)
PF Chris Wilcox ($6,250,000)
PG Earl Watson ($5,400,000)
SF Damien Wilkins ($2,700,000)
C Mouhamed Sene ($1,958,640)
PF Peter Fehse (Draft Rights)
SG Yotam Halperin (Draft Rights)
PG Paccelis Morlende (Draft Rights)
TO ATLANTA
PF Chris Wilcox ($6,250,000)
TO CHICAGO
SG Ray Allen ($14,611,570)
C Mouhamed Sene ($1,958,640)
SF Jumaine Jones ($998,967)
TO DALLAS
PF Kurt Thomas ($7,335,625)
TO MIAMI
PG Earl Watson ($5,400,000)
SF Damien Wilkins ($2,700,000)
SG Royal Ivey ($744,551)
TO PHOENIX
SF Rashard Lewis ($9,350,649)
C Earl Barron ($744,551)
PF Peter Fehse (Draft Rights)
SG Yotam Halperin (Draft Rights)
PG Paccelis Morlende (Draft Rights)
TO SEATTLE
C P.J. Brown ($8,000,000)
SF Austin Croshere ($7,300,000)
SG James Posey ($6,392,100)
SG Ben Gordon ($3,862,080)
PF Shelden Williams ($2,952,840)
SF Luol Deng ($2,614,440)
PG Gary Payton ($1,178,348)
2007 First-Round Draft Pick (Via The Phoenix Suns)
2007 First-Round Draft Pick (Via The Atlanta Hawks Through The Phoenix Suns)
2007 First-Round Draft Pick (Via The Indiana Pacers Through The Atlanta Hawks)
2007 First-Round Draft Pick (Via The Cleveland Cavaliers Through The Boston Celtics And The Phoenix Suns)
The Hawks would agree to the deal ‘cause it provides the team with a show-stopping power forward (i.e., Chris Wilcox). Wilcox, without a doubt, would perfectly compliment the gracefulness of fellow power forward Marvin Williams.
The Bulls would agree to the deal ‘cause it provides the team with a superstar shooting guard (i.e., Ray Allen). Allen, without question, would make the Bulls a contender for the NBA Championship. Furthermore, the team would also receive an inexperienced, yet adroit center (i.e., Mouhamed Sene) who’d be a decent reserve for Ben Wallace.
The Mavericks would agree to the deal ‘cause it provides the team with a tough, hard-nosed power forward (i.e., Kurt Thomas). Thomas, for the most part, would be an adequate reserve for Dirk Nowitzki.
The Heat would agree to the deal ‘cause it provides the team with a couple defensive stalwarts off of the bench at small forward, shooting guard, and point guard (i.e., Damien Wilkins, Royal Ivey, and Earl Watson). Wilkins, Ivey, and Watson would be solid reserves for Dorell Wright, Dwyane Wade, and Jason Williams, respectively.
The Suns would agree to the deal ‘cause it provides the team with a sweet-shooting small forward (i.e., Rashard Lewis). Once Lewis returns from his hand injury, he’d make the Suns a contender for the NBA Championship. In all likelihood, Lewis would take playing time away from James Jones and Jalen Rose rather than Boris Diaw and Shawn Marion. Lastly, the deal would rid the franchise of Thomas’ pricey contract, which lasts through the 2007-2008 season.
The Supersonics would agree to the deal ‘cause it provides the team with an opportunity to completely rebuild. Luol Deng and Ben Gordon are young, talented players at the swing positions who’d be the franchise’s foundation. Likewise, Shelden Williams is a young, albeit skilled power forward who’d give the team a refined presence in the post to go along with Nick Collison at the position. In addition, P.J. Brown, Austin Croshere, James Posey, and Gary Payton all have expiring contracts. Brown, unlike Andreas Glyniadakis, would provide the team with a legitimate starter at center. Payton, moreover, would give ‘sonic fans a nostalgic reason to attend games throughout the remainder of the 2006-2007 season. Lastly, the acquisition of four first-round picks in the 2007 NBA Draft would probably benefit the team in the future."
http://sonicscentral.com/blog/?p=1016#comments
Oddly, the most insane part of that off-the-wall trade proposal of mine is that I made it on Christmas Eve.
Oh, by the way, I’ll give kudos to whoever here can name the four guys who were selected with the future first-round draft picks I included in that gigantic trade proposal back in the day.
Clue #1: One of the picks wasn’t conveyed until 2008.
Clue #2: Two of the picks are currently scrubs in the NBA.
Clue #3: One of the picks was sold to the Portland Trail Blazers.
On a final note, it’s interesting to see how I’m no longer big on Luol Deng or Ben Gordon, was completely wrong about Shelden Williams, and somehow managed to muster up kind words for Mouhamed Sene — although that had a lot to do with my salesmanship there — in spite of my disdain for his game.
by AK1984 on Jun 13, 2009 12:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nicely done...
in a GM league I was in back in early 2007, I was able to turn the Blazers roster into this…
:::Blazers Roster:::
Pos- Name / Height, Weight / Age
Starters—-
PG- Jarrett Jack / 6’3, 200 / 23
SG- Brandon Roy / 6’6, 230 / 22
SF- Shane Battier / 6’8, 220 / 28
PF- LaMarcus Aldridge / 6’11, 245 / 21
C- Greg Oden / 7’0, 260 / 19
Role Players—-
6th- Jeff Green / 6’10, 230 / 20
7th- Sergio Rodriguez / 6’3, 185 / 20
8th- Travis Outlaw / 6’9, 215 / 23
9th- Joel Przybilla / 7’1, 255 / 27
10th- James Posey / 6’8, 220 / 30
Bench
11th- Fred Jones / 6’3, 220 / 28
12th- Raef LaFrentz / 6’11, 245 / 30
13th- Dan Dickau / 6’0, 180 / 28
D Leaguers—-
D League- Joel Freeland / 6’11, 225 / 20
D League- Luke Schenscher / 7’1, 265 / 24
http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=139168&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=375
This was the draft for the league.
http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=140716
I ended up getting Greg Oden at #1, Jeff Green at #11 and Tiago Splitter at #26.
I then traded Splitter and Webster for Battier. I also ended up getting James Posey (like you- the year he ends up winning the Championship for Boston) for Jamaal Magloire.
All things considered I think I ended up matching KP tit for tat.
by as11osu on Jun 13, 2009 1:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That pick didn't end up being through the PHX Suns though did it?
Horford, Rudy, Law and Tucker
I remember rooting hard for Atlanta to land in the top 3. If PHX would’ve a lottery pick at that time, with that team, they would’ve been able to make the final step.
by as11osu on Jun 13, 2009 1:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Al Horford, Acie Law, Alando Tucker, and Rudy Fernandez are the four guys.
Fernandez came to Portland via Cleveland through Boston and Phoenix.
http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/news/welsch_050224.html
http://www.nba.com/suns/news/draft_release_060628.html
http://www.nba.com/blazers/news/Trail_Blazers_Acquire_James_Jo-231434-1218.html
Well, there y’all have it.
by AK1984 on Jun 13, 2009 2:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scratch that, for the conveyed pick technically became Robin Lopez rather than Al Horford.
As you mentioned above, as11osu, Phoenix would’ve received Atlanta’s first-round draft pick in 2007 instead of 2008 if it hadn’t’ve been a top-3 selection. That pick was dealt from Atlanta to Phoenix as a part of the Joe Johnson sign-and-trade deal back in 2005.
http://www.nba.com/suns/news/johnson_traded_050819.html
Oh, and with regards to that old trade proposal of mine, the reason that the Atlanta Hawks took back $6,250,000 in salary while only sending out $3,697,391 is because the organization was several million dollars under the salary cap at that point in time.
Ultimately, the Hawks used up that salary cap space in a lopsided trade by acquiring Anthony Johnson from the Dallas Mavericks for a 2007 second-round draft pick.
http://www.nba.com/hawks/news/Hawks_Acquire_Anthony_Johnson_022207.html
by AK1984 on Jun 13, 2009 8:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The trade would still have been a net positive
because you weren’t winning anything with the way the team was assembled, but it wouldn’t have been all that great either. They probably also finish the 2007 season with a worse record meaning they probably don’t end up getting Durant. Anyway, interesting ramifications all the way around.
by as11osu on Jun 13, 2009 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
After looking back on it I can't possibly evaluate the ramifications involving future ...
first-round draft picks and lottery results, although getting the #1 pick and drafting Greg Oden was my hope even then. Aside from that, though, I totally overvalued Luol Deng and Ben Gordon. Deng has regressed since then, while Gordon hasn’t improved from being a high-volume shooting gunner with suspect defense.
Oddly, the problems that existed with Rashard Lewis and Ray Allen playing together as the two top players on a team would’ve ultimately reared its ugly head again with Deng and Gordon.
by AK1984 on Jun 13, 2009 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think Deng ever gets his mojo back?
When he was hitting that mid range on top of being a really good defender, he looked like a nice #2 type player. He just turned 24 a couple months ago.
by as11osu on Jun 13, 2009 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I rather take Travis
Deng rebounds a bit better and can defend, but hits no threes whatsoever and has a very nasty habit of disappearing late in games. For 2-3 times the price on an endless contract, I give Travis the upper hand accepting that he takes a dumb shot and lets three guys go to the basket uncontested, but turns it up when you need to score.
by Norsktroll on Jun 13, 2009 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Notwithstanding Travis Outlaw, I 100% agree with your take on Luol Deng.
Although Deng was a great mid-range shooter and solid defender at a cost-effective price during the 2006-2007 season, he’s regressed tremendously as a player and is extremely overpaid for what he brings to the table.
On a side note, I believe the Chicago Bulls would’ve declined my Christmas Eve ‘06 trade proposal. Ray Allen could’ve probably nettted Ben Gordon and salary filler (e.g., P.J. Brown), but I bet Deng was untouchable at that point in time. Without Deng included in the deal, however, I’d’ve held onto Allen.
Oh, by the way, I still wholeheartedly think Sam Presti dealt Allen for way too little during the 2007 NBA Draft. Then again, I wasn’t high on Jeff Green and thought Presti should’ve received Theo Ratliff’s expiring contract rather than Wally Szczerbiak.
by AK1984 on Jun 13, 2009 11:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good God
Just blew my mind
Offseason:
PG Options: Mike Conley(T)/Rodrigue Beaubois(D)
SG Options: Mickaël Piétrus(T)
PF Options: Ronnie Turiaf(T) - Damion James(D), Taj Gibson(D), Kevin Seraphin(D)
C Options: Alexis Ajinca(T)
The French Invasion !
by TheGreatDane17 on Jun 13, 2009 7:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its not like this post needs another rec
But I’ll give it one anyway.
Joel Freeland=Stud
by hightide on Jun 13, 2009 2:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe I don't get it
but it seems like there isn’t much advantage to having 5 mil in cap space because even if you were over the cap, you’d have that mid level exception.
Yellow Mamba FTW!
by northwestj on Jun 14, 2009 12:17 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Lopsided trade advantage with the cap
and not with the MLE.
by lee3022 on Jun 14, 2009 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just curious Storyteller
Do you happen to know how much money Paul Allen has spent on dead cap space trying to get out from under the Jailblazer personna? Im thinking dead money like S Francis, Miles, etc, over the last 5-6 years. I read some where he has spent upwards of 89 mil in buying out contracts and partially paying players saleries to make a move.
I try to help with everything," Fernandez said. "If the coach says go rebound, I go rebound. I work for the team.
""If I'm playing this game to get media and attention, I shouldn't be here," Aldridge said. "I'm here to play basketball, and do what I can do to help this team win."
His stare became blank. It was apparent he was back in that place, on the Rose Garden's logo, picking up Aaron Brooks as the crowd nervously roared.
by Dragonage on Jun 14, 2009 3:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
No idea off the top of my head
$89 million? Could be…..
I’d have to access my old spreadsheets to try and calculate the figure, and they’re on my laptop at home. So maybe tonight….
by Storyteller on Jun 15, 2009 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rules don't apply to us
We can pay anyone whatever we want just by having Allen “lose” at some underground poker games.
If Allen really wants titles he just needs to “lose” 50 million or so to both the Hornets owner and to CP3. CP3 could then come to Portland.
Allen then loses about 100 million to Gates playing bridge, and Gates loses it to LMA/Roy who both happen to be up in Seattle. LMA/Roy both sign for small deals after this!
by Zaig on Jun 15, 2009 10:03 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
lol
I try to help with everything," Fernandez said. "If the coach says go rebound, I go rebound. I work for the team.
""If I'm playing this game to get media and attention, I shouldn't be here," Aldridge said. "I'm here to play basketball, and do what I can do to help this team win."
His stare became blank. It was apparent he was back in that place, on the Rose Garden's logo, picking up Aaron Brooks as the crowd nervously roared.
by Dragonage on Jun 15, 2009 7:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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