Preferred Attainable PG - Poll
by Kelsoballa on Jun 11, 2009 12:17 PM PDT
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PrintThe attainable point guard list has been discussed enough to narrow it down to just a few players. This is a good time to get an idea as to who out of these players Blazer Nation would prefer via poll.
It's hard to eliminate potential far fetched point guards since we have KP running the show, as he may have been working on a major deal for a couple years now... but there's no way to have a legitimate poll if we included those players, and those blockbuster trades are not likely to happen anyway.
So I narrowed it down to the most likely players that have been talked about to this point.
It's also hard to choose without knowing what we'd be giving up, but assume that the trade or signing is a fair deal for both teams involved and you'd at least be happy about it.
This isn't neccesarily a post for discussion, we have many of those around here, it is rather a post for a revealing poll, and I feel like I'm good at putting "smart" polls together. But discuss if you wish.
With that said...
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I know it's not the "sexy" option
But I’m in favor of seeing how it goes as is (maybe minus Sergio)
If need be, there is plenty of time to make a trade before next year’s deadline.
I know less than half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
by haildablazer on Jun 11, 2009 11:24 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I agree.
This team had 54 wins and they are the 2nd youngest team in the NBA. I kind of want to see the team with Martell and see what they can do.
Me too...
I don’t think we know enough about how the existing team will develop. I’m for seeing how Martell, GO, Bayless and others grow for one more year before we spend money or talent to get a guy we may not need.
if you look at Felton's stats from last year, he's better than any of our PGs
by rip_city_swagger on Jun 11, 2009 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions
I disagree
If they win a title with Rafer then Nelson is expendable! They might not see it this way but they could because…
A. You have two PGs who would no doubt want/deserve starting minutes
B. Rafer is solid, but not worth much to other teams due to only have 2-3 good years left.
C. Jameer is awesome, but you effectively won a title without him. Jameer also has nice trade value.
So your options are
A. Keep both, Rafer might get annoyed
B. Trade Rafer, get crap back
C. Trade Nelson, get quite a bit back!
No way in hell
do they trade their future PG and current all-star for Rafer Alston.. there is a reason he has been all over the map.
Nelson is pretty close to untouchable
by GreatOden'sRaven on Jun 11, 2009 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe, maybe not.
If you can win a title without a guy, especially a guy who has been injury prone all his time in the league, why take him back when he’s probably worth a lot?
Now, if I’m the Magic I don’t trade him to Portland for what I said. I probably look at a team like Memphis and look to grab Conley + Something else.
I asked that question over in 3rd Quarter Collapse (yes, that's what they call themselves)..
…and was met with a resounding NO. They say no way to giving up Jameer for Rafer. Regardless of the outcome of this season.
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."
They aren't management
Fans look at it like this “Jameer is better than Rafer, thus we keep him.”
Management could look at the whole picture. “Jameer is better than Rafer, but we are a title contending team with Rafer and Jameer has way more trade value. Jameer will also be more expensive that Rafer.”
they are title contenders because of Jameer
Rafer is just a stopgap
by GreatOden'sRaven on Jun 12, 2009 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I voted for Hinrich
On wheels at work the other day, they had Mychal Thompson on, and he was afraid of the Blazers getting their hands on Hinrich. He thought he would put this team over the top.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
I must be in a mellow mood today...
I’d be fine with Hinrich, Sessions, or sticking with the current rotation… as long as the costs were not too high for the first two options. Sticking with the current rotation would be an acceptable choice to me if it guaranteed significant improvement in other areas—likely PF/SF—that would not be available if Hinrich or Sessions were added.
I'm mellow too.
Who do I like? Here is how I would rank them… in all scenarios assume that Jerryd Bayless is the #2 PG… If they are below Blake, that means I would rather not make moves at the PG position…
1.) Kirk Hinrich
2.) Mike Conley
3.) Jamal Crawford
4.) Raymond Felton
5.) Steve Blake
6.) Ramon Sessions
7.) Jason Kidd
8.) Andre Miller
9.) some rookie
by Portland Dynasty on Jun 11, 2009 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Kidd
I know it’s not popular around here, but I like the leadership and veteran saavy he could bring to the roster for the next 2 seasons. Adding a guy who can actually get our finishers the ball in position to make easy baskets cannot be undersold IMHO. Plus, he wouldn’t cost us any players to acquire. We dump Sergio and our #24 pick for future draft picks, and we can offer him a starting salary of over 8 million. I think that might be enough.
Sessions is intriguing, but too unproven. Too much of a gamble
Hinrich is interesting, but would cost us players with actual value, and there is a fair amount of debate over how much of an upgrade he would be over what we have now.
Miller isn’t the right fit for our roster and style I think.
Draft pick – no thanks, we don’t want to wait 2 to 3 years for him to develop.
so, in order for me (from this list):
1) Kidd
2) Hinrich
3) Stand Pat (for now)
4) Sessions
5) Miller
6) High Pick
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
Good summary
I like Kidd and Hinrich as my top two but I went with Hinrich. I think Chicago is more willing to get rid of him than people think. thus not demand too much talent in return.
I agree with your takes on the rest.
"Tough times don't last. Tough people do."
-Chauncey Billups
Umm
Chicago outright said they are looking to ditch him. People have to think that Chicago is VERY willing to part with him.
yah, it seems like some people are reluctant to think that Chicago thinks this way, even though they came out and said it.
"Tough times don't last. Tough people do."
-Chauncey Billups
kidd is ridiculously expensive, especially when we'll be resigning Roy, Aldridge, Oden, Batum, etc...
by rip_city_swagger on Jun 11, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions
not any more than Hinrich
Kidd can likely be had for a 2-3 year deal averaging 10 million or less. Basically the same price as hinrich. his deal will come off the books when Oden’s extension is kicking in.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
Conley?
What happened to all the Conley talk that was on Bedge awhile ago? I still like the idea of a Conley/Bayless/Aging Vet pg rotation, especially if playing with Conley helps Greg improve and makes him feel more comfortable
My bad - he prolly wouldn't have recieved many votes but he should have been an option
"Tough times don't last. Tough people do."
-Chauncey Billups
Are you sure?
Based on my observation of discussions here, I would expect Conley and Hinrich to be the favorites.
Well, we could see what % he ends up getting, multiply that by 73 (votes he missed) and add that to his total
"Tough times don't last. Tough people do."
-Chauncey Billups
but it still wouldn't account for the votes other players recieved that would have been for him...
"Tough times don't last. Tough people do."
-Chauncey Billups
pretty sure if you multiply his votes by 73
it will much more than make up for votes other players received because he was not an option. Multiply anything by 73 and it grows much larger, generally about 7200% larger than it was previously. (for anyone drunk thinking about attacking this math, multiplying by 1 leaves the number the same, so multiply by 2 leads to a 100% increase.) If this warning wasn’t needed, I’m sorry. I work at a library and people who fail at math by incredible margins make up the majority of the people I meet.
It's like this
He’s now at 350 votes. He has 25% (70 votes) of the last 277 votes, so multiply the first 73 by 25% and you get 18 votes that should have been in the first 73 votes if the rate (25%) stayed the same, which leaves you with 70+18=88 votes total . But also, because Conley’s 18 votes were given to other options instead, To make it fair, add another 25% (Conley’s vote rate) multiplied by those 18 votes, or 5 votes. This makes for a grand total of 93 votes…which still falls 9 votes short of my man : Kirk Freakin Hinrich :)
"Tough times don't last. Tough people do."
-Chauncey Billups
As a rule of thumb
For Mike Conley, Multipley his portrayed vote total by 33% or by 1.33 to get his real vote total.
Because…
The amount of votes increased by taking in to account the first 73 votes is 23 votes
23 / 70 = 33%
The average of his real vote total is 33% more than what his portrayed vote total is.
"Tough times don't last. Tough people do."
-Chauncey Billups
These were the totals after 73 votes....
feel free to go through all of them to see what’s happened since….
When Conley was added there was
Miller – 3 votes
Hinrich – 31 votes
Kidd – 8 votes
Sessions – 15 votes
High Draft Pick – 4 votes
Our PG’s – 12 votes
Conley – 0 votes
at the time of the vote change....
Hinrich had 31 votes.
So since then…
Conley Jr has 72 votes
and
Hinrich has 71 votes (102 – 31)
conley isn't that good,if we was Memphis would not be looking at Rubio with #2 and would just draft Thabeet
by rip_city_swagger on Jun 11, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions
There are reasons to think Conley is not the greatest
but that is not one of them. The consensus in the draft world is that there are 2 players with all star talent and they are Rubio and Griffin, it is a bit silly to pass on that for a guy with a ceiling of “decent center”.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
Conley should've been an option
Also, from your options, if the high pick is either Rubio or Jennings I’d go with them.
done, too bad bloggers can't change their votes, now this poll is tainted
"Tough times don't last. Tough people do."
-Chauncey Billups
When Conley was added there was
Miller – 3 votes
Hinrich – 31 votes
Kidd – 8 votes
Sessions – 15 votes
High Draft Pick – 4 votes
Our PG’s – 12 votes
Conley – 0 votes
Kirk Hinrich is the guy
Steve and Travis for Kirk straight up. Over at Blog a Bull, it sounds like they’d be happy with this deal. Makes sense for them, they get a solid backup for Deng in Travis, and a cheaper backup point guard. We get a tough-nosed, defensive minded point guard who would be perfect alongside Brandon. His contract de-escalates as well.
http://www.blogabull.com/2009/6/8/902025/a-comprehensive-plan-to-re-sign
I think Miller stays in Philly, Sessions is not much of an upgrade, Kidd is too old. I like Mike Conley but I don’t know if we can get him without trading too much.
"Sasha? That's a sissy name." -Mike Rice
Playmaker needed
Kidd, Miller and Sessions are the best available playmakers, Hinrich is a stronger Steve Blake and does not improve the Blazers enough to warrant his $10M/yr salary.
The Blazers need another playmaker to take the pressure off B. Roy and unfortuately, there isn’t another Scottie Pippen coming around to create from the 3 spot anytime soon. Oden and Aldridge aren’t triple double threats.
Kidd is unlikely to leave Dallas.
Miller could prefer a return to the West Coast (he’s from LA)
Sessions would be available to develop long term, but given KP’s desire to develop chemistry between Bayless and Oden, I don’t forsee the $20-25M investment in Sessions.
That leaves the draft.
Lawson is the best playmaker available, but is undersized and his health is in question.
Collison is a good halfcourt PG and a good defender, but has problems finishing inside.
Jeremy Pargo could be a good fit in the 2nd round.
KP has expressed his preference for Bayless to run the point in summer league, which kind of precludes drafting a high profile PG.
Golden State wants Jamal Crawford gone, B. Roy and Jamal are very close. Could Crawford opt out of his $18M deal with the Warriors and sign a 3 yr $20M deal w/Portland?
Jamal says he wants to win, the Blazers need another scorer, could be a good fit.
by Rip City Reign on Jun 11, 2009 12:30 PM PDT reply actions
If it ain't broke...
I don’t see our problem as needing another scorer. We have Martell coming back, and you have Greg, Jerryd, and Nicolas all making leaps next year.
Kirk isn’t just a stronger Steve Blake, he is Blake on steroids who will lay you out if you rub him the wrong way. He is also a ball hawk, and a great mentor for Bayless. I don’t see Jerryd ever turning into a J Kidd type of point guard, but he could be a great Rondo/Hinrich type.
"Sasha? That's a sissy name." -Mike Rice
What evidence can you provide that backs up your assertion that any of those guys you mentioned are going to score next year
“We have Martell coming back, and you have Greg, Jerryd, and Nicolas all making leaps next year.”
Don’t get me wrong, I like most of you HOPE this is the case, that all of our guys are suddenly better next season…just because.
But wishful thinking and five cents will get you a piece of gum, one that doesn’t even last very long.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jun 11, 2009 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Well...
KP’s record for spotting talent, for one thing.
Martell’s work ethic and improvement over his career for another.
Also, both Greg and Jerryd were considered by many to have disappointing seasons last year, which I attribute to a combination of confidence and adjusting to the NBA, as well as a lot of rookie treatment from the officials.
And I have a crystal ball which tells me the future.
"Sasha? That's a sissy name." -Mike Rice
Umm really?
Because rookies usually get better and almost never get worse when they stay on the same team.
Greg, Batum, and Bayless really can’t do any worse than they did this year, all they can do is improve.
Greg: Still not 100%, was totally lost out there, totally foul prone. None of these things (barring a serious fluke injury) can get worse. That means he will be better.
Batum: Played solid D, not much of an offensive game. His offensive game can’t get any worse really and his defense won’t suddenly become suck.
Bayless: Played bad defense and bad offense. Had 2 good weeks or something. Basically, Bayless cannot do worse next year than this year.
I understand that you like to be as negative as possible, but you can’t deny the FACT that rookies usually improve, especially when staying in the same environment/system. Even if by some fluke one of these guys didn’t improve, all 3 of them not improving is virtually impossible.
by Zaig on Jun 11, 2009 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
sure,
but the idea that “it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” is just silly if you ask me. How’d that work out for the Chicago Bulls when they passed up on Pau Gasol?
Yes, our rookies will get better. However, I don’t think that the bankable improvement from our rookies and the return of Martell will account for much more than a couple extra wins and another first-round playoff exit. This team as currently constructed basically reached its ceiling last year. Without addressing the issues that got us in trouble against Houston (reliable 3rd scorer, wing defense) we won’t improve much.
Tough choice
between Hinrich and Conley. I chose Hinrich, but I would be ecstatic with either.
Conley
Offseason:
PG Options: Mike Conley(T)
SG Options: Terrence Williams(D)
Forward Options: Ronnie Turiaf(T) - Damion James(D), Taj Gibson(D), Kevin Seraphin(D)
Gotta say Captain Kirk.
High BBIQ. Good shooter, actually gets to the freethrowline by driving the ball.
My favorite teams are the Blazers and any team that is playing the Lakers.
I see a lot of people say Conley, why? Did you just draw a name out of a hat?
Because Conley has been pretty god-awful. Is this because he’s Greg Oden’s friend or do we just like to collect bad players?
Blazer Fan
Conley has been pretty god-excellent
at least recently.
#’s after the all star break…
15 PPG, 6 APG, 4 RPG, 2 SPG, 46 FG%, 44 3P%, 84 FT%…
The Oden part would just be a bonus.
So out of two full seasons, you are talking half of one season and that's your case to make him our PG of the future?
Aiiiieeee
Also I’m not sure how hard it is to put up numbers the second half of a meaningless season.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jun 11, 2009 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions
its called improvement-- it often happens between year 1 and year 2
His 2nd season (despite a slow start), was still about as good as Blake’s recently completed season (which, was also Blake’s best season).
The most recent one half?
Weird how that works.
Also I’m not sure how hard it is to put up numbers the second half of a meaningless season.
And umm, guys don’t automatically put up better numbers when the season becomes meaningless. By your logic EVERY player on every bad team should just get better once they get eliminated from the playoffs. This doesn’t happen now does it?
I think Conley is going to be good, but
I don’t like the idea of getting him just because he is Oden’s BFF. I also don’t think Memphis wants to trade him, unless we gave them Rudy or Nic.
"Sasha? That's a sissy name." -Mike Rice
I would give them Rudy
If we can swing another trade for Mikael Pietrus.
Offseason:
PG Options: Mike Conley(T)
SG Options: Terrence Williams(D)
Forward Options: Ronnie Turiaf(T) - Damion James(D), Taj Gibson(D), Kevin Seraphin(D)
by TheGreatDane17 on Jun 11, 2009 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Rudy
Will never play elite defense like Pietrus.
Offseason:
PG Options: Mike Conley(T)
SG Options: Terrence Williams(D)
Forward Options: Ronnie Turiaf(T) - Damion James(D), Taj Gibson(D), Kevin Seraphin(D)
by TheGreatDane17 on Jun 11, 2009 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Also I don't get the fascination with dinosaurs like Kidd and Nash
We’ll get acclimated to a PG and then he retires, or worse, dies of old age? I don’t like it at all.
Blazer Fan
Of Nash/Kidd/Miller
I would take Miller. Much more balanced player then Blake & his ability to get to the free throw line in the clutch is .1% better then LeBron in “non clutch” moments.
Offseason:
PG Options: Mike Conley(T)
SG Options: Terrence Williams(D)
Forward Options: Ronnie Turiaf(T) - Damion James(D), Taj Gibson(D), Kevin Seraphin(D)
by TheGreatDane17 on Jun 11, 2009 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Bibby brings a lot to the table, but he's pretty old already, and is an atrocious defender.
by dario argento on Jun 11, 2009 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions
14 million
he would have to take a huge pay cut to come here.
"Sasha? That's a sissy name." -Mike Rice
KP
Only his silver tongue will get it done.
Blake can play for them while Rubio is over seas, he has experience playing next to a dominant ball handler at the 2 & he is consistent. Swap Conley with Blake, give them Rudy IF ONLY IF we can get Pietrus in a 3 team deal, or in another deal.
Offseason:
PG Options: Mike Conley(T)
SG Options: Terrence Williams(D)
Forward Options: Ronnie Turiaf(T) - Damion James(D), Taj Gibson(D), Kevin Seraphin(D)
by TheGreatDane17 on Jun 11, 2009 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions
I just gotta say
That given those choices, my first choice would be Andre Miller. I have always liked his game. If not Andre then stick with what we have right now.
by BlazerFanFromDenver on Jun 11, 2009 5:55 PM PDT reply actions
Could we get Miller and solve our pf spot at the same time
I saw a post from a Philly fan who was hoping to get Hinrich. He would be a nice fit for their club younger than Miller. He proposed
Blazers send: Blake, Outlaw, Cap Space
Blazers get: Miller (S&T), Speights
Bulls send: Hinrich
Bulls get: Blake, Outlaw, Cap Space
Philly sends: Miller, Speights
Philly gets: Hinrich
Would Philly do it? I’m not sure they would give up Speights. He had some real nice moments his rookie year, but this was proposed by a Philly fan. Would we do it? No, if like most on this post, KP values Hinrich more than Miller. We can solve our PF need in some other way. I, however, like Miller equally to Hinrich. You lose the 3-point shooting, although Miller is a good perimeter shooter just not at the 3-pt distance, but he creates easy shots for teammates which we desparately need.
If you like Hinrich and Miller equally, then picking up Speights by exchanging Miller for Hinrich is a no-brainer IMO.
I would do that.
Offseason:
PG Options: Mike Conley(T)
SG Options: Terrence Williams(D)
Forward Options: Ronnie Turiaf(T) - Damion James(D), Taj Gibson(D), Kevin Seraphin(D)
by TheGreatDane17 on Jun 11, 2009 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Voted for Hinrich
would not be bothered if the PG rotation stayed same for one more year
really want Nash and believe he is attainable
settle for Kidd, at the right price
thoughts?
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