B.Roy approves Ronny Turiaf, Part II: Trade Drawer/Poll
Brandon Roy Approves this Trade Drawer.... (not literally)
Golden State is KP’s golden opportunity to keep his star Brandon Roy excited about what this team has going on. Everyone knows that Brandon Roy is the leader of this franchise, and he is a damn good one so far. Recently Brandon Roy named Golden State PF Ronny Turiaf specifically to Blazer Commentator Brian Wheeler (95.5 The Game) as a good target for the back-up PF role that needs to be filled by Portland. Golden State also has long-time friend of Brandon Roy… 29 year old 6’5" PG Jamal Crawford. Crawford is great scorer (19ppg, 4.4apg) and not a bad guy, but he does have a bad contract (08/09-$8.3M, 09/10-$9.4M, 10/11-$10M), ends when Jamal is 31 years old. So Portland has an opportunity to leverage it’s $5.8Million in available cap space and help another team (in this case Golden State) realize some flexibility. Of course, KP wants it to be a true "Win-Win" so there is something Portland will get in return… at first I thought, 2009 #7 pick… but after thinking about where the youth is on this team right now, it would be better for Portland to accept a future 1st Round Pick (top-5 protected) from Golden State for either 2010 or 2011 Draft.
If you look at Golden State’s roster you see a lot of scorers but no steady hand and no maturity at point guard… the Warriors need Steve Blake… an efficient facilitator and effective out-let scorer. Although Portland loves Blake and coach Nate actually trusts him, Portland’s steady hand needs to be Brandon Roy, and the guard rotation won’t redefine itself if Blake is still around. Now that the kids in Portland are growing up, Blake is the guy who needs to be sacrificed from this group, not Travis Outlaw (as he is another player who has an exceptional bond with B.Roy). I prefer keeping Travis Outlaw, and although some will think that a deal with Golden State can’t get done without including Travis Outlaw, this "lop-sided" trade is about creating cap space and it works… +$1Million cash, that is the way we do it!
Nick Van Excellent posted this quote previously on "B.Roy approves of Ronny Turiaf as the backup power forward"… this quote is Jamal Crawford talking about his friendship with Brandon Roy "It’s always tough. Brandon Roy is one of my best friends and when he went to the playoffs (with Portland) I was just as excited as if I was playing. I told him ’I’m playing through you’ and I was up there supporting him and going to games. And this is the closest I’ve been now it’s time to win. You can do all the individual stuff but until you win you won’t get the credit you deserve."-Jamal Crawford
Jamal Crawford at the starting point guard of Portland excites me for a number of reasons. One, he is a proven scorer in the NBA. Two, he is a big guard keeping Portland’s consistent size/length advantage. Three, he has the BB-respect of B.Roy which makes me believe they will have instant chemistry. And Four, leveraging our cap space also nets the Blazers a future first round pick, giving Portland options when they need 'em more than they do now.
Ronny Turiaf is a player who is 6’10", can play both center and PF, and is a special player because of his energy in rebounding and blocking. Turiaf definitely would fit with Portland’s culture, as B.Roy pointed out… plus he plays with the French National Team and that would be a neat fit for Nic Batum. Ultimately, Brandon Roy thinks he is the perfect fit for both team role and culture.
First Move: Portland uses $3.3M Trade Exception plus PG Sergio Rodriguez $1.1M to Golden State for PF Ronny Turiaf ($4.5M)
Second Move: Portland uses its cap space $5.8M in a lop-sided trade, $5.6M in Cap Space, PG Steve Blake ($4.2M) plus 2009 Picks #38, #55 to Golden State for PG Jamal Crawford ($8.6M), SG Marco Belinelli ($1.4M) and Future 1st Round Pick.
Why Golden State Does It? Well, I answered that question with the #7 Pick this season. If Golden State is able to get rid of Jamal Crawford’s contract and keep their #7 now… it is a no-brainer. Losing Turiaf could sting a bit, but with the cap space this deal would create they have available they have plenty of options. Plus if they want more cap space and feel that their #7 pick can play PG right away, they could always cut Blake’s non-guaranteed $4.2M, allowing them to grab an even better player in Free Agency. When Golden State has to give up that 1st Rounder in the future there will be choking on their end, but because it is a future… emotionally it hurts much less when you are pulling the trigger on deals. The additional 2nd Round picks acquired by Portland will help Golden State to try and find more diamond in the rough players who don’t come with guaranteed contracts… its like buying the rights to bring in two extra players to camp. They won’t miss Belinelli and wasn’t necessarily part of their plans. Golden State could even trade the #7 to a team with 2 first rounders (Chicago or Minnesota)…. Maybe land two players (#16 C BJ Mullens and #26 PG Darren Collison). This definitely gives them options.
Golden State: 2009 #7, #38, #55.
PG: Steve Blake/Sergio Rodriguez
SG: Monta Ellis/Stephen Jackson/
SF: Corey Maggette/ Kalenna Azubuike
PF: Anthony Randolph/Brandan Wright/Richard Hendrix
FC: Andris Biedrins/
Why Portland does it? Portland needs to evolve the guard rotation as this seasons playoffs proved that a new formula is needed. Steve Blake is a great player, but our first unit really needs an attacker to be beside Brandon Roy, while Roy becomes the steady hand of the offense. Jamal Crawford is a proven NBA scorer and has instant chemistry with B.Roy. Also, Crawford isn’t too big of star to fight-off our aspirations for Jerryd Bayless. The other need for Portland is a rebounding and defending power-forward, which Ronny Turiaf fits perfectly. By getting Ronny Turiaf at PF, and keeping PF Travis Outlaw… Portland has unbelievable match-up options. SG Marco Belinelli is a 6’5" Italian shooter who could blossom in a new situation, could be a darkhorse find. Not to mention the Future 1st Rounder which give our beloved GM the flexibility he is always talking about… What can’t you do with 2 first rounders in the same draft? Portland ALSO can use the Mid-Level Exception and the Bi-Annual Exception to add two more players, which is exciting.
Portland: 2009 #24, #32, #56, 2010 1st Rounder
PG: Jamal Crawford/ Jerryd Bayless
SG: Brandon Roy/Rudy Fernandez/ Marco Belinelli
SF: Martell Webster/ Nic Batum
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge/ Ronny Turiaf/ Travis Outlaw
FC: Greg Oden/ Joel Pryzbilla
A little more Speculation for Portland: Portland could land a player like Ron Artest or Andre Miller with the mid-level exception and a depth player with the Bi-Annual Exception. With Pick #24 I would like either PG Darren Collison or SF Sam Young. Allowing KP to keep Pick #32 enables Portland to target the top talent that slipped into non-guarnateed territory, and #56 has draft-n-stash written all over it. Getting Martell back will be huge, keeping Travis, infusing two new veterans (Artest & Crawford), adding Turiaf, getting improvement from Batum, Bayless, Oden and Fernandez.. and everyone else for that matter... this team would look good enough to challenge either of these two teams currently in the NBA Finals. So when it is all said and done, Portland could look like:
2009/2010 Roster is this good enough for a Championship?
PG: Jamal Crawford(T)/ Jerryd Bayless/ Darren Collison(#24)
SG: Brandon Roy/Rudy Fernandez/ Marco Belinelli(T)
SF: Ron Artest(MLE)/Martell Webster/ Nic Batum
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge/ Ronny Turiaf(T)/ Travis Outlaw
FC: Greg Oden/ Joel Pryzbilla/ Robert Swift(BAE)
2 recs |
72 comments
Comments
Eh. Im just not crazy about crawford really.
And i def. don’t want bayless learning from him. cuz crawford isn’ really a point guard , he is a shooting guard.
Officer:Why did you kill your husband ?
Crazy Woman: Because I love too much!
by YikesItsCameron on Jun 10, 2009 5:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Jordan wasn't really a point guard either...
Nor was Scottie Pippen. Magic Johnson wasn’t really a point guard either, more of a point forward. Brandon Roy isn’t really a point guard either, neither is Jerry Bayless, no. Even though Dwayne Wade handles the ball all the time, he isn’t really a point guard, Monta Ellis really isn’t a point guard….
I think that allowing your mind to be controlled by such stringent definitions on things like positional definitions that naturally have loose characteristics, in a game that is constantly evolving with players who are consistently more versatile than ever before….
Taking a chance on a riskier player like bad-contract Jamal Crawford but who has that chemistry with Roy could be an incredible move.
by Portland Dynasty on Jun 10, 2009 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No im just saying he doesn't have any point guard skills.
Therefore he has nothing to teach bayless. I don’t think bayless will ever be an amazing passer but i want him to have good passing instincts.
Crawford shoots first.
Officer:Why did you kill your husband ?
Crazy Woman: Because I love too much!
by YikesItsCameron on Jun 10, 2009 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cuz we should really be taking some more pressue off roy.
And crawford will do all the same things bayless will do, only better. But i think they want bayless to develop Into a different type of player than crawford.
More chauncey billups , less A.I. Ellis Crypto Nate ect.
Officer:Why did you kill your husband ?
Crazy Woman: Because I love too much!
by YikesItsCameron on Jun 10, 2009 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just because Portland may want Bayless to develop into a different type of player than Crawford...
Does that mean that the PG that the Blazers BrainTrust should only be searching for is the exact type of player that we are hoping Jerryd Bayless to become?
Roy is gonna play as much as humanly possible. WIth Roy in the game portland can match him up with Crawford, Bayless, Rudy, or Ron Artest for two guard spots!!! Why do we need a duplicate yet experienced duplicate of Bayless. IF and WHEN Bayless breaks out of the rookie-ho-hums I would think those options to be amazing for any coaches standards. B.Roy one of the 5 best Guards on the Planet.
by Portland Dynasty on Jun 10, 2009 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can't combine a trade exception with an asset...
…you have to use them on their own (trade exception + Rodriguez = false).
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."
by GonzoFan on Jun 10, 2009 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fine...
I sure KP and Sean Penn could figure out the $14.5M got dealt with creatively and with essentially the same components.
by Portland Dynasty on Jun 10, 2009 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tom Penn (sorry)..
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."
by GonzoFan on Jun 10, 2009 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Sean Penn!! lol goooooood actor.
I loved I am Sam despite the crap Downey Jr gave penn for his role in the movie, IN the movie tropic thunder….
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
by faith on Jun 10, 2009 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
not to mention
that once KP adds Crawford and goes over the cap, the BAE, the MLE and the EIEIO are gone for 12 months. (Storyteller set me straight on that, last week)
Here’s an idea, let’s bring in all of Brandon Roy’s BFFs and see if the Seattle Homey’s can beat the rest of the NBA!
(or, not)
by two4larue on Jun 10, 2009 7:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Robert Swift?... yuck
by The Most Interesting Man in the World on Jun 10, 2009 5:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Is he the ginger version of birdman?
Officer:Why did you kill your husband ?
Crazy Woman: Because I love too much!
by YikesItsCameron on Jun 10, 2009 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's the little sister of the ginger version of birdman
Rudy Fernandez in the Future
by The Most Interesting Man in the World on Jun 10, 2009 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
Officer:Why did you kill your husband ?
Crazy Woman: Because I love too much!
by YikesItsCameron on Jun 10, 2009 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In my estimation this would be a very bad offseason
Downgrading starting point guard should be kind of the opposite of what we should be attempting to do.
Also, we can do much better than Turiaf at backup PF. Also, Artest wouldn’t come for the MLE.
Our goal should be to get better players, and maybe trim the roster. Not bringing in more low quality guys.
by as11osu on Jun 10, 2009 5:42 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
I disagree i think turiaf is a really good fit.
He has played well as a starter in golden state , I don’t see him being a bad option for playing behind LaMarcus for 10 min. a game.
Officer:Why did you kill your husband ?
Crazy Woman: Because I love too much!
by YikesItsCameron on Jun 10, 2009 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
kk I got confused somewhere in there.... we get crawford, turiaf and artest...who did we lose?
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
by faith on Jun 10, 2009 5:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Blake, Sergio, 2nd Round picks, cap-space and the trade exception....
First Move: Portland uses $3.3M Trade Exception plus PG Sergio Rodriguez $1.1M to Golden State for PF Ronny Turiaf ($4.5M)
Second Move: Portland uses its cap space $5.8M in a lop-sided trade, $5.6M in Cap Space, PG Steve Blake ($4.2M) plus 2009 Picks #38, #55 to Golden State for PG Jamal Crawford ($8.6M), SG Marco Belinelli ($1.4M) and Future 1st Round Pick.
by Portland Dynasty on Jun 10, 2009 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ron Artest is the Mid-Level Exception Mystery Player...
I just think Ron has that grit and his respects our organization, but the Blazers could find another solid vet like this for the $6.5M contract.
by Portland Dynasty on Jun 10, 2009 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ron Artest will get a lot more then MLE
if thats all teams want to give him, then Houston will beat that easily.
by ggassen85 on Jun 10, 2009 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
BUT I think ron wants to play for portland....and would do it for the mid level exemption....
after so many years in the league, and after what ron ron has been through …the only rightous thing to correctly float his legacy for his pride….is a championship.
I think ron ron pegged us as a serious contender for the next few seasons Finals…. and he wants some coat tails to ride on.
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
by faith on Jun 10, 2009 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure he would like that
but I think he would want an extra 10 to 15 mil over the life a contract more
by ggassen85 on Jun 10, 2009 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is ron ron were talkin about....
after kobe elbow’d him…… “don’t you know this is ron artest”….
his ego is worth more he HAS to win a championship… + the savy snark of “Portland couldn’t have done it without me” goes miles :)
kk pipe takin over here…I’ll keep quiet :)
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
by faith on Jun 10, 2009 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
what about the team he is with?
he has a coach he excels under and they took the lakers to 7 games without Yao Ming.
That seems like a good path to the finals to me.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
by jonestr on Jun 10, 2009 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
real life is not a video game
you cant have so many players on that same team that need a lot of playing time and expect to win. Having Ron Artest, Batum, Webster, and Outlaw would do this team no good. Also if we get a backup PF, Outlaw wouldhave to go becasue there is no playing time for 3 SF.
I think Crawford might work, he has a low shotting %, however if you watch him play you see that he takes a ton of bad shots. If he came here and stopped talking those bad shots (which could happen, I dont think he has every played on a playoff team before). i think he is capable of distributing the ball adn taking a lot of pressure off Roy. It would not be my first option to get Crawford, but it wouldn’t be terrible.
by ggassen85 on Jun 10, 2009 6:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
ya huh real life is video games...
no stampsies or take backs.
he-he.
by Portland Dynasty on Jun 10, 2009 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
batum/webster/outlaw/la/turiaf
If we are lucky enough to have all five healthy for the majority of the season, we would’ve beat the odds. Even if that happens, in the event that oden or pryz is hurt, turiaf or LA will need to play minutes at center, opening up PF. If rudy or roy is hurt, webster will play minutes at the two, opening up minutes at SF. So the only way we have one of these 5 riding pine, is if all 9 of the 2/3/4/5 rotation are healthy. The only spot that we would not have an optional 3rd string quality backup is PG, assuming we trade sergio and don’t get another PG in the deal. I would bet between those 9 other players, at least 1 or 2 of them misses 20+ games. Between them I’d bet on missing almost a full season, so the positions would float a little from game to game, but all around the roster would not be hurt near as much when any one player goes down. (Given pryz and oden’s history, and the fact they are big men, I would expect the two to combine for 120-140 games in one season. If we got over 150, I’d consider that excellent. (Both men play in one game, counts as two games)
by lurtsman on Jun 12, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trade Drawer
1st you can not use your exceptions and be under the cap it is one or the other.
My Trade thoughts… Trade Sergio to NY for 2010 2nd rounder and cash, Trade the 24th pick and the 55th pick to San Antonio for the 2011 1st Round pick (top 10 protected) and there 2009 37th pick.
Draft Cole Aldrich 2010
by jlarose78 on Jun 10, 2009 6:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Picks huh?
So Portland would have:
2009:
#32:
#37
#38
#56
2010
1st-Por
1st-SA
2nd-Por
2nd-NYK
2nd-???
To me, I just see a lot of picks and that is not what Direction I think this team is going. All we have heard about is adding experience and getting better from within. In order to fill the need for “experience” and “playoff toughness” I foresee Portland leveraging their picks in trades for guys who are established veterans.
Okay, so we can’t use our trade exceptions… Portland will. I just got the order of the deals wrong. J.Crawford goes first which whipes out almost all of Portland’s cap (plus Blake, Sergio, picks), then Portland signs any league minimum player to exceed the salary cap. Then Portland uses the Trade Exception and Cash to Ronny Turiaf (if that doesn’t work, then the player who Portland signs to exceed the salary cap actually needs to be a player that GS wants and is signed for $$$ that would fit with +Sergio’s 1.8 for Turiaf’s 4.5). Then uses the MLE to sign Ron Artest.
I totally get the knocks on Jamal Crawford, I understand that it is risky…. but that is why I like it so much.
by Portland Dynasty on Jun 11, 2009 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My worry with this scenario would be
between Crawford, Roy, LMA, Artest, and possibly oden as his offense improves there are not nearly enough shots to go around. The Blazers attempt 80 shots per game and these players alone combine for 64 of them. Plus a combo of Crawford/Artest while keeping Outlaw is a recipe for terrible shot selection.
I like each piece of this idea but together it does not seem to mesh well.
Please do not feed the B-Rex
by BRoyTheNatural on Jun 10, 2009 6:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Of course I would be anticipating that Crawfords numbers would go down...
Because of the role change into Portland, but his offensive numbers should be better than Blakes…
Artest definitely would cut into the looks that LMA and ODen would need, but who knows just how Nate would play him. I would guess that those depth issues are good ones to have…. Who knows what injury ups and downs we will have to deal with next year and beyond.
by Portland Dynasty on Jun 10, 2009 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crawford isn't a pg
He can’t run an offense or distribute the way a point guard should be able to. He is a scorer who will never be a big part of a championship. And being down with Roy isn’t such a big deal. Sure it is nice to add a guy he is friends with, but he is not gonna be friends with everyone on the roster. I like Turiaf and Belinelli though
by rip city coming alive on Jun 10, 2009 8:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Crawford isn't a pg
He can’t run an offense or distribute the way a point guard should be able to. He is a scorer who will never be a big part of a championship. And being down with Roy isn’t such a big deal. Sure it is nice to add a guy he is friends with, but he is not gonna be friends with everyone on the roster. I like Turiaf and Belinelli though
by rip city coming alive on Jun 10, 2009 9:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Statistically speaking...
Jamal Crawford is more of a PG than Brandon Roy, Monta Ellis, Jason Terry, Nate Robinson, Eddie House, or Rudy Fernandez. Would there be enough ball handling and passing with Roy and Crawford in the back-court together? I have no idea, but it’s not out of the realm of possibility.
As far as him being friends with Roy I do think it actually matters a little. The main reason he’s so undesirable is because of his contract, but Portland is one of the few places it sounds like he would be willing to take a pay cut to play for. Jamal Crawford for less than 6 million a year would be a steal.
I watch the Blazers more then any other team in the league (because of my friendship with Brandon Roy). They have expectations on them now, but they’ll be fine.-Jamal Crawford
Brandon Roy talks about Jamal Crawford as if he’s the Godfather of Seattle basketball. Last year’s Rookie of the Year, who was named to his first All-Star Game earlier this week, talks in reverence of the Knicks shooting guard. Roy and Crawford are close friends. Their offseason homes in the Seattle area are minutes apart and they follow each other closely. “It’s tough . . . I mean, he really wants to win,” Roy said. “He sees the way we’re playing and having fun and he wants to experience that.”-Newsday
"Brandon Roy is one of my best friends and when he went to the playoffs (with Portland) I was just as excited as if I was playing. I told him ’I’m playing through you’ and I was up there supporting him and going to games. And this is the closest I’ve been now it’s time to win. You can do all the individual stuff but until you win you won’t get the credit you deserve."-NBA Fanhouse
Crawford deserves a chance. He has never ripped his teammates or coaches, never tried to pout his way into being traded, never embarrassed his organization with off-the-court scandals. Attending postseason games as a spectator is, understandably, not Crawford’s favorite pastime; until last Saturday he hadn’t been to one since his rookie season. That day he drove three hours from his home in Seattle to Portland to see Trail Blazers guard Brandon Roy, a protégé, make his playoff debut.- sports illustrated
The fact that he hasn’t made the playoffs ever is worrisome but as Wages of Wins points out, Crawford has been on terrible teams his whole career and if you go back and evaluate the numbers there isn’t anything he could have done about it.
Crawford’s productivity would have had to come close to Kobe and Roy for his team to make the playoffs during his career.-Wages of Wins
What really concerns me is Crawford’s ability to adapt his game to the Balzer’s offense. If only he was willing to calm down a bit and focus on better shot selection….
“This (shot selection) is the biggest area that I HAVE to improve on and where I’m criticized the most…and for good reason. I HONESTLY feel like I can make every shot that I take. You have to understand that’s how I feel when I play. Some nights it happens but a lot of times it doesn’t. And I believe this along with WINNING is the difference in me being a good player and a great player. I’m going to continue to get better at it…I know you’re probably thinking, ’he’s in his ninth year, if it hasn’t happened already, it won’t.’ There’s some truth to that, but to me, I don’t believe it. Like I said I’m going on my ninth coach in nine years and each had a different philosophy on how they wanted to use me.”-Jamal Crawford
If only he cared about defense…
“This is one of the biggest knocks on my game and this is an area that I want to and have to get better at. That’s why when I play ball in the summer I always try to guard all the best offensive players that I can find because that, along with watching tape, is the only way I will get better at it. It helps to have a scheme or set way that you play defense, as well. Bruce Bowen is such a good defender, not because he’s the best one-on-one, but for the simple fact that he knows where to push you to on the court…. But, again, this is something I WANT to be good at and, with the work I’m putting in, I WILL get better at!”-Jamal Crawford
He might not be the best option for the Blazers, but people make him out to be something he’s not. Stick him in the right system as a sixth man off the bench and I think he could thrive.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on Jun 11, 2009 1:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's been absolutely pathetic defending point guards
he was the worst statistical defender on the Warriors last year, and that’s saying something (gave up 117 points per 100 possessions with him in the game). He also is a chucker, and that’s not what we want from the PG position. He’s not efficient from the field, especially from the 3 point line, where we need a threat (because Batum is not one). Also, I don’t really care about his price tag, because he’s just not a very good player. All your quotes about him being friends with Roy or liking Portland are pretty meaningless because he doesn’t fit as a player on this team. If he realizes he’s a trash shooter and trash defender, why is it still that way? Doesn’t make sense. None of this really matters, because he’d be a lunatic to turn down the next two years of his contract of 19.5 million dollars.
by as11osu on Jun 11, 2009 1:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Individual defensive statistics?
I have no doubt that he’s a poor defender, but meaningful statistics on individual defense don’t exist. It’s one of those things that can only accurately be evaluated with eyeballs, which is why I hate talking about it online.
Is Steve Blake a better three point shooter than Kobe Bryant? Is Nicolas Batum better than Lebron James? Just because Blake has a higher 3 point percentage does not mean he’s actually a bigger threat. The volume of shots taken as well as the quality of looks comes into play. Kobe and Wade are always going to have a lower percentage because they are a focal point of apposing defenses. To determine if Crawford is actually inefficient you have to compare him to other first options who initiate the offense and score off the dribble. Blake is best compared to spot up shooters who don’t create for themselves.
3 point percentage
Pierce: 39%
Roy: 38%
Paul: 36%
Crawford: 36%
Kobe: 35%
Lebron: 35%
Wade: 32%
Attempts per Game
Crawford: 4.9
Lebron: 4.7
Pierce: 4.6
Kobe: 3.7
Roy: 2.8
Paul: 2.5
Wade: 1.5
36% isn’t bad by any means especially when you consider the volume of shots he’s taking. Interestingly enough, DiAntoni was using him as more of a spot up shooter earlier in the year and Crawford was hitting shots at a blistering 45% from beyond the arc.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on Jun 11, 2009 2:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jamal Crawford will always be an eternally disappointing player
It’s a bummer, since he has star talent, and he’s supposedly an extremely smart guy off the court, but he’s such a awful gunner with the worst shot selection, ball hoggy tendencies, and brings that lack of focus and refinement to the defensive end.
A volume shooter who can’t shoot is the worst kind. If he would stick to being a PG and not a scorer, he would probably be really good and I would like him. Alas, such is not the Crawford.
I am fine with him being friend with Roy, but I don’t like how Crawford is one Roy looks up to. If we bring in a Roy friend, we want someone he can be the boss of and it may be hard to cross over from young buck looking up to an original NBA Seattlite in Crawford, to Team Leader who Crawford must listen to and acquiesce his game to.
He’s just been so Jamal Crawford wherever he has gone, even if he’s only played for bad teams. Always a gunner, one of the worst shot selectors in the league, all the more frustrating because of his ballhandling and athleticism and versatile potential. Yeah, he can score 50+ points, but it’s a whole lot of annoying offensive nights inbetween.
I just don’t trust his judgement, and that he is probably more like an older brother than an equal friend to Roy. Those relationships formed when one is a boy and one is a man are hard to change while both are still young.
Crawford coulda’ been real good, but by now he is what he is, and as a 6th man he’d be better than Outlaw but I don’t wanna give up much to get him nor be real eager to pay him. I also don’t know if he’d enjoy such a limited role.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on Jun 11, 2009 3:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I mostly agree with you.
He’s been playing the wrong role for his entire career. He needs to find a situation where he can be a Jason Terry, Eddie House, JR Smith type player. Trying to make Crawford the focal point of the offense is just not an ideal situation for him.
…as a 6th man he’d be better than Outlaw but I don’t wanna give up much to get him nor be real eager to pay him.
This is very true, which is why the whole idea is predicated on Crawford opting out and coming to Portland for way less money. If Outlaw gets traded, which is very possible but not a certainty, then Portland only has one guy who can create off the dribble consistently. Who else are you going to get to fill that role? Crawford isn’t a bad option if he’s willing to take less than 6 million a year.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on Jun 11, 2009 4:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crawford vs. Outlaw
Both are unconcious and streaky jump shooters
Both will say they’re committed to defense, but it doesn’t always appear that way out on the court
Both are ’tweeners, Travis is a 3/4, Jamal is a 1/2
Both are good friends with Mr. Roy
Crawford makes 2x what Outlaw makes? Yikes!
by two4larue on Jun 11, 2009 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jamal Crawford has NOT been a winner...
Morty I agree with your evaluations of Crawford, but the whole thing about Roy and Crawfords relationship.. I think the biggest deal is that Brandon Roy has reached a level of stardom and respect in the NBA that Crawford never has. Also as a mentor, Crawford should understand that the understufy often outshines the predecessor. I like this move a lot for Crawford and I know it is risky… but like you said Mort, the athleticism and ball-handling ability of Jamal Crawford is outstanding, I can’t help but DREAM that the right situation would put this guy over the top.
by Portland Dynasty on Jun 11, 2009 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"absolutely pathetic" -- as11osu
pretty harsh criticism.
by Portland Dynasty on Jun 11, 2009 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry. None of this works.
Can’t combine a trade exception with another player in a trade.
Real numbers don’t work for your Crawford/Belinelli/Blake deal.
We must renounce our mid-level exception to have any cap space anyway, so we can’t use that on a player if we’re going to be using cap space.
Sorry. I’m a hater.
"These are dreams that we have." --Rudolfo Fernandez
by bfan on Jun 10, 2009 9:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention that Golden State isn't dumb enough to also ditch a 1st rounder to accomodate that mess...
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Jun 11, 2009 8:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
okay, so there were a few flaws in the dealings...
the pieces that are available of 5.8M capspace, Blake, Sergio, cash, picks, exceptions… I am certain someone who actually gets paid to throw deals together can make it work. I do “get” the criticism from bloggers here when they comment things like “Nope, doesn’t work, can’t do it…” but we are all amatuers. Bottom line, Is a deal realistic? Which this one is. Is a deal doable? I missed a few rules, but I am certain someone can do it.
If you know this does it work, are you smart enough to figure out how it could work?
by Portland Dynasty on Jun 11, 2009 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just saying ...
You took a lot of time to write a post that doesn’t work. Seems like a waste. And I wasted time reading it. If you don’t know the rules, a better use of your time and mine and his would be to tell everyone you “kind of like these players over here and wish we could get them. Whoever figures out how gets a gold star.” Otherwise it’s pointless. Nothing personal toward you, but this site has become one GIANT trade proposal and I’m so tired of it. I wish we could impose a moratorium on trade proposals until draft night.
"These are dreams that we have." --Rudolfo Fernandez
by bfan on Jun 11, 2009 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
All in the anticipation of what Next Season will be like...
You can’t blame people for speculating on player changes, Portland loves their Blazers and very excited about how much better we can get next season. It is fun to take the clue’s given by Kevin, Nate or even Brandon Roy and try to anticipate who is going to stay and who might be traded. It is fun, lots of fans like this. If you choose not to read it and move on, there is plenty else out on the internets. As far as knowing the CBA and being able to work trades out…. I don’t know every thing, but I know more than just using trade checker.
by Portland Dynasty on Jun 11, 2009 7:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am intrigued as to what Crawford could do
as Larry Brown loved him in NY, and that is a hard man to please (just ask Mrs. Brown….rimshot) and since then he has played under some lassiez faire coaches, but he might find a renaissance under a more structured program.
If you watch his game he has a really nice handle and loves to beat his man off the dribble and then waste the space he created by taking deep jumper. He seems to have a lot of tools and talent that he does not put together.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
by jonestr on Jun 10, 2009 11:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I didn't know that about Larry Brown.
I think Crawford might actually be a better option than Blake in a weird way.
Defensively I think it’s pretty much a draw. Offensively it’s not even close. Blake is a better distributor, but not into the post where Crawford actually excelled at consistently getting the ball to Eddie Curry. People forget that there was a time when Eddie was averaging 19.5 points a game on 57% shooting. A lot of that had to do with Jamal feeding him the ball when he was in good position to score, which is no small feat.
People complain about Crawford being a chucker (which he is), but he’s actually not terrible when it comes to passing. The PG purity rankings look like this.
Ranked By PG “Purity”.
Jason Kidd
Jose Calderon
Steve Nash
Sergio Rodriguez
Steve Blake
Jameer Nelson
T.J Ford
Kirk Hinrich
Ramon Sessions
Rajon Rondo
Chauncey Billups
Mike Conley
Devin Harris
Andre Miller
Mo William
Tony Parker
Russle Westbrook
Jerryd Bayless
Jordan Farmar
Damon Jones
Allen Iverson
Jamal Crawford
Louis Williams
Brandon Roy
Nate Robinson
Jason Terry
Monta Ellis
Rudy Fernandez
Leandro Barbosa
It all depends on how comfortable the Blazers are having Roy run the offense. Even if they don’t want Roy to be the primary distributor, Crawford is actually a better option as a passing guard then guys like Nate Robinson, Rudy Fernandez, Jason Terry, Leandro Barbosa, or Monta Ellis. All of which who have been talked about as a permanent back-court mate for Roy.
Is Crawford a product of the system he plays in? Can he be tamed? I think Roy probably already knows the answers to those questions as he trains with him every summer. I read a rumor somewhere that didn’t seem super credible, but it talked about Crawford possibly wanting to opt out and so he could sign with Portland for less money and a longer term deal. It certainly seems possible.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on Jun 11, 2009 12:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had heard rumors
that Nelson told Crawford to opt out or else…I imagine the or else is no playing time so there may be some truth in that.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
by jonestr on Jun 11, 2009 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow... that would be sweet to get Crawford for less money and longer term deal...
Now all we gotta do is hope he opts out!
by Portland Dynasty on Jun 11, 2009 7:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would assume he would not
in this economy and his stock a bit low. I imagine he is an MLE guy this year and next so he might as well pick up the fat end of his contract this year.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
by jonestr on Jun 11, 2009 8:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
here is a link
http://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/03/12/don-nelson-wants-jamal-crawford-gone/
on a side note, I am glad we have a division of powers between the front office and the coach. I cant remember the last time a coach had a large hand in personnel decisions and it worked out well.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
by jonestr on Jun 11, 2009 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather keep Blake then take on Crawford
The Artest idea won’t happen either, KP has mentioned the team culture about 10 gazillion times. Artest is not a part of that and never will be.
"Sasha? That's a sissy name." -Mike Rice
by koyote on Jun 11, 2009 12:05 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Artest won't be signing for a MLE
…even if he did fit the culture, he’s still able to command more than that (though likely in a sign/trade) and I’m 99% certain the Rockets want him back. It’s interesting to discuss as the Blazers are one of only…4? teams w/cap space but I don’t see Ron Ron in red and black unless it’s 1999 again…in which case I need to sell all of my tech stocks, brb.
Crawford fits the culture, Crawford fills some need, and I think adding him + Turiaf would make the team better. I think we’d miss Blake big time, especially in the playoffs for distribution; too much would be asked of Roy in this scenario as Crawford just isn’t a PG.
PWN3D
by NoRespert on Jun 11, 2009 8:36 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Eh, what about the bigs
The problem I have with all these thoughts of brandon handling the ball and being ok with shoot first pgs is that ostensibly, two of our biggest assets are our bigs, Lamarcus and Greg. I got pretty annoyed with blake, et al. last season when they’d rarely hit our bigs rolling to the hoop, most notably Greg and sometimes Lamarcus. I realize that can be a dangerous pass, but it seems pretty essential since our bigs are arguable major keys to our success. I want someone who can run the pick and roll and actually hit the roller sometimes (not just the pick and pop), and somebody who can generally hit the bigs (and others I suppose) when they’re flashing to the hoop. Admittedly, I don’t know Crawford well enough to guage his skills on that particular front, but knowing he’s shoot first makes me suspect that’s not his game. I may be wrong.
Who we can actually get that fits that bill well, I’ll actually leave to wiser folks (and it’s probably been discussed at lenght in other posts).
by Dunemonkey on Jun 11, 2009 9:50 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
you had me until
robert swift.
ARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGH!!!!!!!!- Sabonis getting fouled.
by sabonis on Jun 11, 2009 10:23 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Why not Hansbrough?
Hes slated to go around 20. I can’t see any downside to him. He’s a poor mans Tom Gugliotta and will give us exactly what we need in a backup 4. He’s smart, works hard, gets boards, and hits his free throws.
It wouldn’t take much to move up and grab him. Minnesota is shopping picks and some other team may be willing to sell a pick outright. Then you don’t have to deal Sergio in conference for a glorified backup. Seems a whole lot cheaper than Turiaf would be. Then you can use Sergio to lure a PG (Still hoping for Nash)
by thejazzhippie on Jun 11, 2009 10:43 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If we traded for a different Crawford, we could go 82-0, guaranteed.

dinasour type of guys choir boys
by mittsabishy on Jun 11, 2009 11:09 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Tempted to make this a Fanpost, but I'll put it here.
Jameer Nelson! Now obviously Orlando recognizes that Nelson is a better player that Rafer, he’s also a lot younger. But, Rafer has proven that he can help lead the Magic to the NBA finals, and they might even win the whole thing, although tonight will give us a better look at the chances of that happening.
With Turkey Glue likely being too expensive for Orlando, they will need a new SF who can score and not play defense. Ring any bells? Outlaw can do everything that Turk can except for run the Point Forward, and he does it for far less money. Rafer also only has a few more good years left in him so they’ll need a replacement soon.
So
Outlaw, Bayless, 24 pick, 2nd round pick for Jameer Nelson.
Outlaw replaces Turkey and makes them younger (Turk is 30, that’s way past Howard’s window.)
Bayless plays under Rafer for 2 years before probably replacing him. If Bayless doesn’t work out, hopefully they draft someone to be ready in 2 years.
Picks are nummy.
Another option would be give them the number 8 pick if we can get it from New York for whatever. They could draft a PG with that pick and let Bayless/BG duke it out for the job of future PG.
Now, all stats side with Jameer over Rafer, but since Rafer is winning against the NBA’s best (Cleveland/Celtics), why not trade the guy with trade value? Rafer/Nelson are probably won’t co-exist that well for an entire season, so one has to go. Rafer doesn’t have much trade value whereas Nelson does. If Portland could get NYs pick, Outlaw/Bayless/8 pick would look pretty nice.
Downside: Jameer is better than Rafer and is closer to Howard’s age. Orlando will probably just throw Rafer on the bench or trade him for trash as opposed to getting rid of Nelson.
by Zaig on Jun 11, 2009 11:15 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You make a good case as to why Orlando would part with Jameer Nelson...
I could see that happening, especially since Jameer is so much more expensive than Rafer Alston.
The thing about Jameer Nelson is that I think Jerryd Bayless is going to give you the same stuff. Only Bayless is younger, ready for Nate to groom, and he is bigger. I would think that Bayless has better defensive prospects than Nelson too. I do like nelson a lot, but I like Jerryd Bayless more. I think Jerryd is gonna be back up all season but is one year away from taking the helm. In the mean time, I would like to see a veteran who would work great to start now, then bring off the bench in the future. Kirk Hinrich, Jamal Crawford, Raymond Felton, Andre Miller… I could see those guys working well later on in that bench role. But with Nelson (fast penetrating guard) it duplicates what Bayless (fast penetrating guard) is too much for my liking. Id like a big defender (Hinrich) or a big scoring point (Crawford) to play with Roy.
Brandon Roy – 6’6" Playmaking Scoring Guard
Jerryd Bayless – 6’3" Fast Penetrating Guard
Rudy Fernandez – 6’5" Deep Shooting Guard
Who goes best with those three guys? Jameer would be alright or better than alright, and he sure is a “big” name. But I think Portland team chemistry and Nate’s matchup scenario’s would be better with Hinrich or Crawford or Conley on this team. And there should be a way Portland can keep Travis and only sacrifice Blake and Sergio of our roster for this upgrade.
by Portland Dynasty on Jun 11, 2009 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lets not get too full of ourselves
Portland uses its cap space $5.8M in a lop-sided trade, $5.6M in Cap Space, PG Steve Blake ($4.2M) plus 2009 Picks #38, #55 to Golden State for PG Jamal Crawford ($8.6M), SG Marco Belinelli ($1.4M) and Future 1st Round Pick.
Just cannot see how GSW would see this as smart. GSW gives up promising first round pick, and future first round pick for Steve Blake, who is horrible fit for a running team.
Is this a case of us seeing everything from our viewpoint? Takes two to tango, and the deal has to make sense for other team. GSW can surely find better ways to move Jamal Crawford if that is their only motivation for the deal.
Also, Belinelli is a promising sophomore. He was injured quite a bit, but when he played he put up decent numbers. 44% FG and 40% 3P are decent for a sophomore, on a GSW team that has a very loose definition of “good shot”. GSW is not going to toss him in lightly into a package. Might as well ask Portland to toss in Batum.
by FromAfar on Jun 11, 2009 11:28 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Is this a case of us seeing everything from our viewpoint?
Yes.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jun 11, 2009 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where this idea a ship, it would sink on the slips before ever launching ...
… it has so many holes.
1) The biggest one is I don’t think it works under the rules. But assuming it would …
2) Crawford isn’t a PG, despite Nick’s excellent arguments to the contrary.
2) The Blazers do not need Brandon Roy to be the “steady hand” at the helm of the offense. That is the same as making him the PG and he has already stated he doesn’t think that plays to his strengths.
3) The fact that Crawford and Roy may be friends from Seattle does not automatically mean they will have great chemistry on court. The whole “friends” bit gets overplayed. Additionally, one should know to take a lot of those statements with a grain of salt. Athletes say a lot of things to the press. Sometimes it is because they like the sound of their voice or think it puts them in a good light. I’m not saying Crawford is making it up, but there could be some degree of exageration.
4) While Crawford can light it up at times, I’m not sure I’d classify him as a great scorer. How efficient is he? He just does not look like a guy who would be a good terteriay scorer, which would be the most he could hope for on the Blazers.
5) As most people here think that our PG’s biggest weakness is defense (not scoring), what does Jamal bring on the defensive end? From what I can tell, not much.
What this looks like is trying to fit a square peg (Jamal) into a round hole (PG) based primarily on the fact that he is a buddy of our best player. Throwing in Turiaf, while nice, is sort of like dipping a turd in chocolate and saying it’s a truffle.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Jun 11, 2009 3:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I never said he was a PG.
He’s a combo guard the same as Ellis, Robinson, Terry, etc.
At any rate, he certainly should NOT be a starter on the Blazers and really only works if a bunch of stuff happens this summer. Someone like Outlaw, Rudy, or Bayless would have to be traded and Crawford would have to opt out of his contract and play for less money. In that specific situation you wouldn’t take Jamal Crawford coming off the bench for 5.5 million a year? I’m not sure you could find a better option for a sixth man this summer unless you really wanted to overpay Ben Gordon.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on Jun 11, 2009 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
NO WAY
Blake is to slow for Don Nelson,s game. He (Blake wouldn’t fit nellie’s up tempo game) Nellie likes to run run run that not Blakes game.
by billyjoejack on Jun 11, 2009 5:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
GS fan here
those are both awful deals for us.
We don’t like Crawford much and his contract stinks, but even if he doesn’t opt out his contract becomes a pretty valuable trade chip after this season. I’m more down on both Crawford and Belinelli than most fans on GoldenStateofMind, but there is absolutely no way we would send you the #7 (which will likely be a PG significantly better than Blake) and Marco Belinelli (who showed dramatic improvement this year) just to dump one year of Crawford’s contract. That one is completely ridiculous.
The Turiaf deal is only slightly more realistic. Sergio hasn’t been all that impressive and I doubt many fans want to see us add another small guard who can’t hit from the outside or defend very well. They especially wouldn’t want to see us add one at the cost of giving up one of the better bench big guys in the league who is young and signed to a very reasonable deal for several more years. The deals leave us very thin on the frontline (we don’t have Hendrix anymore either) but they also just aren’t fair value deals.
All these GS/Portland trade ideas that keep popping up here and on GSoM seem to assume that for some reason we want to ship out one or two good role players and our draft pick for your trash. Its not happening. No possible combination of Outlaw, Bayless, Sergio, #24, and Blake is going to land you guys any combination of Turiaf, Wright, Belinelli, Crawford, and the #7 that you would like at all. Its simply not going to happen. We also CAN’T trade another future 1st because we dealt one for Marcus Williams last year.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jun 11, 2009 11:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Love Wright
but it doesn’t seem like management cares for him much after Randolph’s rookie year. What would you consider a reasonable deal for him?
by as11osu on Jun 11, 2009 11:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
from you guys?
I really don’t think there’s a great trade match….. I think the general consensus among most of the fans, and I suspect management as well, is that Wright is definitely available as one of the main pieces of a deal for a star, but short of that they’d prefer to keep him and allow him and Randolph to split the PF minutes fairly evenly. Both guys are on the light side much of their game depends on running, but I don’t think they are too similar to complement each other well. Randolph is a much better rebounder and a better defender right now, but is extremely raw on the offensive end. Wright has some questions about his defensive rebounding and overall defense, but has developed a pretty good offensive game. Having both of them on the roster also means Nellie will be less tempted to put Buike or Maggette at the 4, hurting our rebounding ability a lot.
Thing A
by sam23 on Jun 12, 2009 12:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

by 
























