A plan for the Future.
The future, we are all thinking about it right now, what does it hold, who will the Blazers sign as a free agent, who will they trade, if anyone, and what can we expect from this team not just next year, but for the next few years. I have no doubt Kevin Pritchard and his team has a plan, but as fans we only see bits and pieces of it, so we are left to our own speculation. Many have already started to write fan posts about who they think this team should acquire, and the names range from Kobe to no one. But what I am going to propose here, is a fully thought out plan, weeks in the making, that includes all draft picks, free agent signings, extensions for players, renouncing of rights to other players, salary cap implications, and basically everything I feel that KP and his team would have to discuss and address in the near future. Needless to say, if you’re not ready for a read, try again later, if you are then go grab a cup of joe, you could be here awhile.
I. Salary cap for the 2009/2010 season
Before we go any further, we need to assess the team’s salary cap situation, as it will effect every decision that is made from this point. For this post, I am going to use an assumed salary cap for next season, the number I have chosen is $57.3 million. I chose this number because it seems to be the most quoted by NBA writers when talking about projecting next years cap. The luxury tax has always been between $12-13 million more than the salary cap, the actual number is determined by an insane formula that I can’t go into, because I really don’t understand it, but if you would like to read about it, you can at, http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q16. If we use the higher end of the assumed amount, ($13 million) that would put the luxury tax threshold at $70.3 million.
The Blazers have committed $50,567,802 in payroll next season, (http://hoopshype.com/salaries/portland.htm) This was caused in part because of the Zach Randolph trade which returned Steven Francis, who was bought out, and whose contract of over $17 million comes off the books. Because Steve was bought out, the Blazers have no rights to him, unlike some other players who the team will have to make a decision on, such as Raef LaFrentz. The Blazers have just under $6.8 million in salary cap space this summer and about a total of $20 million before they would go over the luxury tax threshold. To run a profitable team, the Blazers will have to stay below the tax cap, so for this post we will not be going over the threshold like the team did in the past.
II. Player decisions for the season ending in 2009.
The first decisions to make this summer have to do with players, the draft is fast approaching, and the team is bring in players for pre-draft workouts already. But before we get to the draft, a few other decisions need to be made. First of all there are 3 players on the team whose contracts are up; they are Mr. Ruffin, Mr. Randolph, and Mr. LaFrentz. All three players should be let go this offseason, only Shavlik can still play in the NBA, but unfortunately it will not be with the Blazers. Saying goodbye to these players still does not give the team uses of its full cap number, there are still harder decisions to make.
The only restricted free agent Portland has is Channing Frye. The team must do one of 4 things with Frye, sign him to an extension, renounce his rights, sign him to the qualifying offer, or let him sign an offer sheet with another team. The team could also trade him to another team after resigning him if they choose. However I don’t see that happening, what I do believe will happen is the team will either renounce his rights, (2nd option) or let him sign an offer sheet, and if it is really low they might match it, but the most likely outcome would be the Blazers letting him walk for nothing. Because he is a RFA he can’t be used in trades before the draft or even during it. The team would have to wait almost a month after the draft before they could resign him and trade him. These types of trades rarely happen, so for this plan he will be renounced to make his qualifying deal come off the cap and give the Blazers their full $7 million to use this summer.
The next decision to be made is pretty easy, both Brandon Roy and LaMarcus Aldridge need to be resigned. First is Brandon Roy, he is the face of the franchise, and its unquestioned leader. For those skills and for his obvious skills on the court he will be offered a max contract extension. The exact numbers won’t be known because of how a max deal is determined, but we can get pretty close. The only question I can see is if Roy wants the full 5 year extension or not. Many of us might assume he would, but with a new CBA coming soon he might see an advantage to not signing for the full 5 years. My opinion is that in the next CBA player salaries stand more of a chance of being reduced than increased, so Roy would be well served to sign for the max he can get now, for as long as he can get now. This is why both LBJ and Wade signed only 3 year deals, which end next summer. They will be able to sign long term extensions under the current CBA, so even if player salaries are reduced it won’t affect them until 6 years down the road. It was a very smart, forward thinking plan by them and their agents.
A 5 year max contract for Roy is going to be in the $88 million dollar range. Max contracts for a player with Roy’s experience start at 25% of the salary cap in which the extension takes affect. Roy’s extension would take affect in 2010/2011, but I am using the cap figure we discussed earlier of $57.3 million, because predicting two years out is crazy. It is safe to say that Roy’s extension will top $80 for 5 years easily, and depending on the cap it might even top $90 million.
For LaMarcus, a max deal has been talked about, and his agent will surely ask or even demand one, but I don’t believe Aldridge has earned one. I would be willing to give him a bit more based on the potential the team sees in him, but a max deal would seem to be out of line with his production. Other players of his caliber, (potential all-star, or borderline all-star, even some multi-time all-stars) are not making the max or even close. A few players I would compare Aldridge to are; David West, Josh Smith, Luol Deng, Mo Williams, Josh Howard, Nene, Tayshaun Prince, Baron Davis, Al Jefferson, Hedo Turkoglu, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, and Antawn Jamison. None of these players are on max deals, and many are more accomplished than LaMarcus. The most common to him is David West in my opinion. West has been an all-star twice, (2008, 2009) and he signed a 5 year $45 million contract in 2007-2008, the same year he made his first all-star game.
The contract I would offer LaMarcus would be 5 years for $50 million, (the max I would offer him this offseason would be 5 years $60 million) and I think he would accept that. If he believes strongly enough to turn it down I would let him play this year out and go into restricted free agency next summer. If he improves his game next year and becomes an all-star then the team could offer a bit more, if he makes a leap like Roy did this year, then a max deal could be considered. If I were KP, I would not be afraid to let LaMarcus go into RFA, because the Blazers can still match anything he is offered even next summer, even with many teams having cap space. I can’t see any team offering him a max deal based on his potential if his production remains what it was this last season.
III. Trades and Free Agents
The first trade I would make would involve the draft, if New York doesn’t get a top 3 pick, I would offer them Sergio and our 1st rounder for their 1st round pick. I think their pick is #8 and should get the Blazers the chance to draft a decent banger for practice. The trade is more about setting Sergio free and freeing up back up point minutes for Bayless. Sergio is not a long term fit with the Blazers, but Bayless could be, and we won’t see that until he is given some responsibility. And for Sergio, New York would be perfect for him, if he can’t succeed there, he would have to go back to Spain. This can only happen if New York has a trade exception, which I think they do, Sergio’s contract is very small, only $ 1,892,035, so I think their exception covers that. As for our salary cap, the cap number for the pick the Blazers will send New York is $933,500, for a total of about $2.8 million off the Blazer cap number. That is about $400K more than the pick we will get from New York, giving the Blazers about $400K more cap space for a total of about $7.1 million.
The second trade I would make would be with the Bulls for Kirk Hinrich. I know some don’t think he is much of an upgrade to Blake, but I think you might be surprised by what Captain Kirk brings to the table. Here is a quick highlight video of him against the pistons during the playoffs 2 years ago, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhU5-VHUCxw&feature=related. As you can see, Kirk is able to penetrate and kick, drive, pull up, and knock down the mid range jumper, and go to the hole strong, all things Blake is unable to do. He is also a very good defender, spot up 3 point shooter, and foul shooter. He has playoff experience, more than any other Blazer I believe, and his contract is not that bad. He is signed through 2011-2012; his salary for next season is $9.5 million, $9 million in 2010-2011, and $8 million in the final year. For a starting point guard that is pretty normal.
To make this trade happen, the Bulls will need at least a back up pg, and someone else who can help them. Lucky for the Blazers they have two perfect players for them, Steve Blake and Travis Outlaw. Steve is obviously a very capable back up point, which should help Rose learn the ropes. Outlaw will help provide the Bulls the scoring off the bench, which they will lose a big chunk of that when Ben Gordon leaves via unrestricted free agency. If you recall Gordon turned down $50 million from the Bulls last summer, and with his performance in the first round this year, I can see one of the few teams with cap space this summer giving him a good offer and the Bulls don’t have any way to stop it. Steve and Travis’s deals add up to between $8.25 and $8.93 million, depending on which salary info site you look at. The Blazers can eat the difference because of their cap space, making the deal work for both teams. This would leave the Blazers about $6.5 million in cap space to sign free agents with.
For a good free agent list, Oregonlive.com has put this up, http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2009/05/nba_free_agents_2009_and_2010.html. I believe after these trades, the Blazers will need to look to free agency and the draft to fill their remaining needs. The team is solid at PG, SG, SF and C, only back up PF needs to be upgraded. With a very specific skill set require I went looking, and after looking at all the possibilities, I have come up with the following targeted names; Chris, “Birdman” Anderson, Leon Powe, Joe Smith, Brandon Bass, Walter Hermann, David Lee, and Anderson Varejao. Each has their strengths and weaknesses, and I was going to break each one down for you, but this is already too long, so I will just say a few things about each to explain why I did or did not chose to pursue them as free agents.
Birdman – Anderson is an unrestricted free agent and he is only 30 years old. He is a good defender, a great shot blocker, and a good finisher. Outside of the basket area he has no offensive game, is a 63% FT shooter and a good rebounder. With Joel on the second unit already, I feel the Birdman will duplicate what is already there, so I chose to go after someone else.
Brandon Bass – Bass is 6-8, 250lbs, and only 24 years old. He is young, and would fit with this team’s time table, but he won’t bring much playoff experience to the team. He is a good jump shooter and a good rebounder, 80% ft shooter, and gets most of his points driving against bigger power forwards. I don’t see Dallas letting him go, Cuban can spend more to keep him than we can to get him, and at the price we would offer him Cuban would easily match.
Walter Hermann – 29years old, 6-9 225. Hermann is more of a 3 than a 4, a good shooter, but not a great rebounder for a PF. So he is off the list.
David Lee – 26years old, 6-9 240. Lee is a great finisher, great rebounder, 80% ft shooter, but not a good defender. New York is way over the projected cap with $76 million already committed next year, but I can’t see them letting him go, after all their payroll this year was $98 million, so they are not afraid to pay the luxury tax.
Anderson Varejao – 26years old, 6-11, 260lbs. Great defender, rebounder, very good against the pick and roll on defense. Not a good FT shooter, at 58%, draws lots of offensive fouls, one of the best floppers in the game. I feel Anderson would also duplicate what Joel brings to the second unit, and any offense he gets is because of the attention paid to LBJ. Meaning his production would fall off greatly if brought to Portland.
Joe Smith – 33 years old 6-10 250, Is a good jump shooter, doesn’t turn the ball over, and is a good rebounder. Shoots 70% from the line, defends well, and draws lots of charges. Has plenty of experience in the playoffs. Smith would be a good pick up if we couldn’t get…
Leon Powe – 25 years old, 6-8 240lbs. Good offensive game for a back up PF, can shoot out to 15 feet, but makes his money in the paint. Plays under the rim, but like Zach Randolph, has a nose for the ball and tips lots of offensive rebounds in for points. He is an ok defender; he hustles and gives lots of effort, draws charges well, and shoots 70% from the line. Boston does have his bird rights, so they can pay him more than anyone else; however they are already over the luxury tax line next season with $73 million committed. This could be the one area where Channing Frye might be used in a trade, as he would be cheaper than Powe for the Celtics, while still providing some offense off the bench. Stats: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=3023. PER: 17.25, 17mpg, 8ppg, 5rpg, 53%fg, 70%FT.
For the sake of argument lets say Boston doesn’t match Portland’s offer and the Blazers sign Powe to a 4 year deal for $30.4 million. It would cost the Blazers their full cap number of $6.5 million this summer, but it would complete their 10 man rotation. The Mid level for the year is about $5.8 million, so it is more than any other team that is over the cap can offer, and it is enough to make Boston think hard before matching, because it would cost them double, almost $60 million, and Powe is not worth that, not even to the Celtics, who could sign someone like Frye to a one year deal for under $4 million, and be out only $8 million.
**UPDATE** May 5th 2009 “News: Powe underwent successful surgery to repair a micro facture and torn ligaments in his left knee on Tuesday, the Associated Press reports.”**
This makes signing Powe very risky. My guess is he will resign with Boston now for cheap, leaving the Blazers to fall back on a player like Joe Smith. I would still contact Powe and try to sign him, (for much less of course) to a 3 or 4 year deal. He won’t be very good next year, but he is young and should heal well, so come 2010-2011 he should be back to 100%. For this fan post I am going to project the Blazers signing both Powe and Joe Smith, Smith for a 1 year deal that is a little above the vet minimum, and Powe for a 3 year deal for a total of $10 million. Both bring post season experience, and the right skill set to be successful as a back up PF on the Blazers.
To fill out the roster, and in light of Powe’s injury, I would convince Joel Freeland to come over and compete for the back up PF spot with Smith, and provide depth at the position. The team would also sign at least 2 of its draft picks from the 2009 draft, a 1st round pick, (#8, from New York) and one of their 2nd round picks. With the number 8 pick, I would choose DeJuan Blair, PF 6-7 265lbs. He is short, but he is a good rebounder, and this team could use all the big men it can get in case Powe doesn’t come back strong, and Smith gets hurt or can’t be convinced to sign with Portland instead of retiring. I would also pick Darren Collison with the team’s first 2nd round pick, #32 over all, and sign him to a 2 year deal, with the 2nd year being unguaranteed. These signings would fill out the roster, and give valuable back up options incase of injury or just for practice. It would also leave the Blazers with 14 players leaving the 15th spot open like KP likes to do.
2009-2010 Roster – salary
1. Brandon Roy - $3,910,816
2. LaMarcus Aldridge – 5,844,826
3. Greg Oden – 5,361,240
4. Kirk Hinrich – 9,500,000
5. Jerryd Bayless – 2,143,080
6. Rudy Fernandez – 1,165,320
7. Martel Webster – 4,344,000
8. Nicolas Batum – 1,118,760
9. Leon Powe – 3,000,000
10. Joel Przybilla – 6,857,725
11. Joel Freeland – 824,200
12. Joe Smith – 1,500,000
13. DeJuan Blair – 2,483,280
14. Darren Collision – 442,114
(Darius Miles) – 9,000,000
Total Team salaries: $57,495,361
So as you can see, this plan keeps the Blazers in a position to add even more players via the mid-level exception or bi-annual exception during the season if the need arises. It also provides flexibility for in season trades should they need to happen, it provides balance to the roster, with 3 point guards, 5 wings, and 6 bigs to bang down low. What this plan also does is set this team up for the future, by buying low on some talent that might prove to be extremely valuable; the Blazers salary cap situation won’t get out of control, leaving them plenty of options in the years to come. To demonstrate that point I have calculated the team’s salary cap number for the 2010-2011 season as follows: $63,618,084, which is before next years draft picks and after Roy’s and LaMarcus’s extensions kick in. With the luxury tax threshold at $70 million or more the Blazers should have plenty of wiggle room next season. After that will be Greg’s extension year, and that is too far ahead to predict, it will all depend on his play. Przybilla’s contract will also run out at that point, with him being 32 at that point he may or may not be resigned, much of that decision depends on Greg’s play as well. But no matter which decision is made, this plan sets up the team to take advantage and not be prevented from making a move because of the salary cap or luxury tax.
IV. Coaching decisions
The first thing to do is re-open talks with Coach Nate about a contract extension. Nate may not be the coach to get this team to a championship, but he is the right coach to bring them to a point where they need to be for that coach to come in. Most teams don’t build like the Blazers so maybe Nate will be the one, but history says at some point he will be replaced. Personally I believe he is the right coach and the coach who will bring a championship to Portland. Because of that I would offer him an extension that would make him a top 5 paid coach, with large bonuses or kickers for any finals appearance and championships won. Nate may decline again this summer, but as a team I feel the Blazers need to let Nate know that they feel he is the man to get the job done here in Portland, and there is no better way to do that then to offer him an extension.
As for Nate’s assistant coaches, I would love to bring in a big man coach to work with not only Greg, but many of the young big men this plan is bringing in. With Coach Luke’s future up in the air, I think Nate would welcome another coach in to work with the guy, but in the end this decision is left up to Nate.
V. Conclusions
Those who made it though all of my thoughts about how to bring a championship to Portland I thank you. But I also ask you to pick apart this plan, because it is only my first observation about what we should do. There are bound to be inconsistencies, and other problems that come up that I didn’t think about. Do we need another wing or is 5 enough? Do we need to bring in a defensive coach to upgrade a defense that was middle of the pack last year? Is there someone else we should take with the #8 pick? Should we even trade Sergio to New York? Can a starting line up of Hinrich, Roy, Batum, Lma, and Oden bring Portland a championship? I look forward to your thoughts Blazersedge.
26 recs |
364 comments
Comments
Rec,
but for one thing. You can’t use the MLE or biannual exception if you start out under the cap. Your cap space is being calculated as follows:
Salaries+cap holds+exceptions = cap figure.
You’re free to renounce any cap holds or exceptions to gain that space back, of course, whether they’re in the form of RFA rights or MLE or trade exceptions, but in order to get under the cap in the first place, we have to renounce these exceptions to begin with, so no MLE for us this summer.
I really loved the idea of Powe before his knee injury. I think Powe likes being in Boston and they’d be willing to pay him more than 3.5 per, though. Still a fan of Birdman and Andy Varejao. Joe Smith would be a solid pickup, too. And obviously Blair would be phenomenal.
Solid writeup overall.
by Royster on May 8, 2009 2:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I see your point
I haven’t read that specifically but it makes sense. In the case of this plan, it would still work, as the Blazers could use mid-level to sign both Smith and Powe, or renounce the exception and sign them out right. Either way it works.
by usmcr3049 on May 8, 2009 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is exactly why I bet the Portland Trail Blazers will NEVER be under the salary cap at any point ...
during the upcoming off-season. It just makes more sense to hang onto Raef LaFrentz’s Bird rights — which could be useful in a sign-and-trade deal, which just isn’t a realistic possibility with Channing Frye — the mid-level exception, and the bi-annual exception rather than renounce all those assets to just get under the salary cap by a slight, relatively insignificant amount.
by AK1984 on May 8, 2009 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I responded to this opinion
by AK1984 in another post, but I’ll say it here again, too.
$7 million in cap space is absolutely better than a $5.5 million MLE and a $1.9 million BAE.
You can sign a $6 million player with the cap space, not with the exceptions.
You can make a ‘lopsided’ trade with the cap space, not with the exceptions.
Holding onto Raef’s Bird rights makes sense right up until July 8th, but not afterwards, IMO. If a sign-and-trade hasn’t been worked out by then, then he’ll be renounced without a second thought.
by Storyteller on May 9, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
speaking of Reaf...
• Raef LaFrentz, a power forward for the Portland Trail Blazers, has picked up a New York pad. LaFrentz paid $1.7 million for a two-bedroom condo in the Liberty Lofts building on West 64th Street. [Cityfile]
by jstbeachy on May 8, 2009 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reh-heh-heh-eeeelly?!?!
(looking at New Yorks roster)
I am no longer able to participate in this discussion due to a moderators request...
by TrentEdwardsHoF2018
by Screen Name on May 8, 2009 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
David Lee perhaps???
I’ll take him as our back up PF! :)
Yes! Yes! In the face!
by LeafHawk on May 8, 2009 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think lee
wants too much cash to be a back up. Word was he was looking for $10 million per or more.
by usmcr3049 on May 8, 2009 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yah, I highly doubt he'd come here. We don't have the money to pay him.
Unless he’s willing to take one of our exceptions, or a sign and trade happens, it’s not gonna work.
Yes! Yes! In the face!
by LeafHawk on May 8, 2009 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus
Lee wants to start
formerly fromagnon... I remember back in the day... way back before you young cats were around, back when I ruled the jersey contest... back when it meant something... back when hip-hop was alive
by The Arkitect on May 8, 2009 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's about it,
but like others have said, he has suspicious defense and thinks he’s a starter in this league.
Nothing else excites me.
I am no longer able to participate in this discussion due to a moderators request...
by TrentEdwardsHoF2018
by Screen Name on May 8, 2009 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
New York is also
Very close to New Jersey. And I hear they have a nice point guard there. Just sayin’…
by teenagemutantninjabayless on May 8, 2009 10:58 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Now thats outside the box thinking
Rec for the screen name
#5
by Kelsoballa on May 11, 2009 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perfect.
Honestly, I think if the Blazers could somehow add the Birdman + Hinrich we would be looking at a top 5 defensive team next year.
The Birdman is especially amazing because he erases some bad mismatches we saw last year. He’s only guy I can think of who can guard Dirk without it being a problem. He does such a fantastic job on quicker big men, something Pryzbilla and Oden have problems with.
Nice job.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on May 8, 2009 2:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
aren't you afraid
of the Birdman and Joel duplicating the same skill set on the 2nd unit?
For example if we signed Anderson the 2nd unit would be
Bayless
Rudy
Webster
Anderson
Przybilla
That seems a little light on offense, Joel and Anderson are no more than finishers on offense, Rudy can set up people up but for right now he is a shooter, same with Webster. So that would create alot of pressure on Bayless to create for 4 guys, not sure he is up to it. That is why I thought of Powe, someone who you can dump the ball into 5-8 times a game and will give you consistant production. Smith is the same way, accept he works off the pick and pop. Something Bayless or Rudy can run for him. I like a more offensive back up PF for this group. But I wouldn’t cry over getting Anderson, he is a good player.
by usmcr3049 on May 8, 2009 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really.
Bayless, Rudy, and Webster are all offense oriented guys. Plus, I feel like the Birdman is probably a step above Joel in the offense department. Can you imagine all the lobs the Birdman will get from Rudy? You would basically just be taking all of Travis and Channing’s shots and giving them to the other three guys. Ther’s plenty of offense to go around in that second unit.
Also, Aldridge plays with the second unit a lot anyway. Depending on foul trouble or whatever you could just stick Aldridge in there if you thought there was a potential mismatch with the other teams apposing PF. I’m not sure we need that much offense coming from our backup PF for 1those 15-25 minutes a game anyway.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on May 8, 2009 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it could work
I agree, my thought was it could work better with a more offensive back up PF than with a player like Anderson.
But like I said above, if we were able to sign the birdman, I would be very happy.
by usmcr3049 on May 8, 2009 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with usmcr... Pryz and Birdman too similar..
Both Pryz and Bird are pivot defenders who block and rebound, neither one of them has a very strong offensive game, not that we need a great offensive player in our back-up front court, but it definitely would be nice to see. Plus, don’t you just think Birdman is a punk…
DaJuan Blair has such a good offensive set of skills to go with strong rebounding, I think that is combination we want and we sacrifice the duplication on the blocking.
by Portland Dynasty on May 8, 2009 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do not think Birdman is a punk.
He kicked a drug habit and then spent more than two years working himself back into the NBA. Has anyone ever done before?
I have never seen him do anything on the court that I would consider “punkish”. He’s not a dirty player, he gets along with his teammates, he only cares about devensive stats. There aren’t a lot of guys out there with a better on court attitude than the Birdman. Besides his suspension, which is long behind him, and his tattoos, there is nothing about the guy that should lead anyone to think ill of him. He is a class act all the way, a high character guy with an unbelievable work ethic.
He might be the most misunderstood man in the league.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on May 8, 2009 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Birdman is a Jerome Kersey
and that’s a need for this team. Someone seriously scrappy.
He and Bayless on the floor together could be scary.
by LicketyBrindle on May 8, 2009 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
awwww
Seriously though, if he has better hands then ‘Billa, then Rudy would have no problem creating offense for him, as he already does for Joel. I don’t see how having two shot blockers could somehow be considered a negative, just like Birdman sais, if a little is good, more is better.
I’m not “excited” about him, but I am a big fan of the “douche bag turns decent” story, so that’s something. Besides, while I’m in no particular hurry to go and grab a “less then savory” charactor, I do believe that the roster is closing in on the cohesiveness and singleness of purpose that would allow for assimilation of an prominent role player type. I still think were a season or two off from an “Artest” type or anyone that has the lurking notion that they’re number one material. I would like to see Greg blend more, a little more maturation from him first, before we brought in a top notch talent that’s displays less then stellar decision making skills.
I am no longer able to participate in this discussion due to a moderators request...
by TrentEdwardsHoF2018
by Screen Name on May 8, 2009 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
awwww, that's sweet <3
Seriously though, if he has better hands then ‘Billa, then Rudy would have no problem creating offense for him, as he already does for Joel. I don’t see how having two shot blockers could somehow be considered a negative, just like Birdman sais, if a little is good, more is better.
I’m not “excited” about him, but I am a big fan of the “douche bag turns decent” story, so that’s something. Besides, while I’m in no particular hurry to go and grab a “less then savory” charactor, I do believe that the roster is closing in on the cohesiveness and singleness of purpose that would allow for assimilation of an prominent role player type. I still think were a season or two off from an “Artest” type or anyone that has the lurking notion that they’re number one material. I would like to see Greg blend more, a little more maturation from him first, before we brought in a top notch talent that’s displays less then stellar decision making skills.
I am no longer able to participate in this discussion due to a moderators request...
by TrentEdwardsHoF2018
by Screen Name on May 8, 2009 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
His routine, his antics, his image, he is a punk wannab-thug...
I am sure he is an alright dude if your his friend, but as a “product” and part of the KP Culture Plan, Birdman is not the type of player that would keep the fringe fans on the band-wagon of this “good-guy” product that they are selling hard…
And now that Ron Ron Artest just got his second toss-out in the same series… man, and I had just joined the “Sign Ron Artest” parade, but now with this behavior, I don’t think he is gonna find his way into the Blazers clubhouse. Kinda bummed about it too. But, we gotta move on from that one now.
by Portland Dynasty on May 8, 2009 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
"Antics"?
“punk wannab-thug”?
Wow, not sure what you are talking about.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on May 9, 2009 12:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The second Artest ejection was bogus
it wasnt even a flagrant, he got ejected because of his past not what he actually did
by blazerbeliever97504 on May 9, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and the first ejection
he turned out to be right. I think he has acted extremely mature considering how much K*be has gotten away with when they are battling each other.
UPDATE: NBA says Br*ants elbow did not hit Artest in the throat it was just below the throat and on the higher chest… Give me a break so apparenlty the NBA allows elbows to the higher chest
C*mcast sucks!
by Blazermaniac77 on May 10, 2009 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
WHo cares if it was Bogus...
Artest acts up too often plain and simple. IF Portland had been counting on Ron Artest as a major piece to win a series and he got himself tossed two games in a row (regardless of bogusness) Portland would be ticked. Not devastated just angry that Portland was duped into thinking we would need a guy with Artests history/baggage. SOrry, but we all need to look elsewhere cuz we will likely be diappointed.
by Portland Dynasty on May 12, 2009 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Weren’t both ejections late in the fourth quarter? Isn’t there some “&*^% this, if we’re going down I’m going to make a statement”-ness wiggle room? I doubt he cost them the game in either example.
It's = It Is
Its = Belongs to It
by 12sharks on May 12, 2009 7:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would use Birdman
at PF, behind LMA, and as a second center if GO or Przy get injured or in foul trouble (and both of those things seem to happen).
Brandon Roy, 'nuff said.
by johnv59 on May 8, 2009 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol, could you imagine 18 fouls at the five spot,
with LMA playing 36 – 40 min. a night, leaving about 6 to 8 for Freeland, and a sliding scale for Birdman, depending on how hard our centers had been fouling that game. That could be like WOW. Whole teams could literally just give up on driving to the hole… entire teams…. afraid…. just giving up……
I am no longer able to participate in this discussion due to a moderators request...
by TrentEdwardsHoF2018
by Screen Name on May 8, 2009 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not a chance
During ‘Birdman’ Anders(E)n’s suspension he lived and worked out in Denver. Guy loves the town and the town love him back. No way in hell he take on a roll in Portland that would offer him NO minutes behind Aldridge, Przybilla, Batuum, and Oden.
Same goes for Joe Smith. At their age they are not looking to sit the bench on a ‘minor’ contender.
by Tagyou'reIt on May 8, 2009 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Neither one
would “sit on the bench” in Portland. The Back up PF spot will easilly get 15-20 mins a game during the season, which is what both players are playing now. And Joe Smith is exactly what this team is looking for, and this team is exactly what Joe smith is looking for. He doesn’t want to play 30 mins a night, he can’t anymore. And neither can the Birdman, he would foul out before then.
Both are prefect for this team in different ways. You might be right about Birdman’s love for Denver though, he seems like a perfect fit there. But Denver has been watching their bottom line very closely, so even that love may not keep him there.
by usmcr3049 on May 8, 2009 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is our 'Great White Hope'
There would be open revolt here in Denver if we let Birdman leave, especially to a division rival. I even think Denver gets a hometown discount.
Like i posted a little farther down you cna have Kleiza back.
by Tagyou'reIt on May 8, 2009 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not suprise
the Birdman to Denver must be like Rudy to Portland.
I hope he stays in Denver honestly, if for nothing else then my plan might come true. Plus I like him, and he is about the only guy on Denver’s team i do like, (well I like Billups too i guess).
by usmcr3049 on May 8, 2009 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I go to Shop-Ko
I am no longer able to participate in this discussion due to a moderators request...
by TrentEdwardsHoF2018
by Screen Name on May 8, 2009 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another thing.
Teams might be looking to dump their lower first round picks this year. Instead of Collison wouldn’t it be better to move up a few spots and grab Jrue Holiday? He has a better NBA body, better upside and is arguably a better defender.
Thorpe said that NBA executives have told him they consider Holiday to be the best perimeter defender in the draft. “No one doesn’t need a pass-first guard who can play lock-down defense,” Thorpe said.-LATIMES
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on May 8, 2009 3:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Did you watch him in the tourney
Lock down is a big overstatement.
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Edwin Jackson
Sign Othello Hunter & DJ Mbenga(Both for big man depth)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 8, 2009 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's young.
He blows assignments and makes bad decisions, but with a little consistency (which comes with age) I’m sure he will be a better defender than Collison.
His size also helps, especially in the NBA where I imagine Collison is going to get pushed around a lot.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on May 8, 2009 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The cost of adding another First round pick
was too great in my opinion. A 1st rounder is 2 years guaranteed, while a second rounder is nothing unless you sign him to it, plus the 1st second round pick’s salary is almost 1/2 the last 1st picks is. Better value in the 2nd round than then late 1st round to me.
by usmcr3049 on May 8, 2009 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Repost of a "trading up" idea one of which is similar to yours
I have to hear back from the fans of the other team before I know if it makes sense. Both trades only have a remote chance if the other team doesn’t win 1, 2, 3 in the lottery (moves up) but stays where they are.
Idea 1: Sergio, Blazers #24, Blazers #38 (NY that we have, or maybe #32 Clippers), $3M cash for NY #8. They can absorb Sergio with a trade exception (they have 4).
Idea 2: Blazers #24, Blazers #38, $3M cash for Bucks #10 and Malik Allen (1 year 1.7M) or Francisco Elson (1 year 1.3M) who they want to get rid of because it brings them dangerously close to luxury tax and endangers plans to re-sign Sessions and Villanueva (to be absorbed with our cap space or trade exception). We get one more veteran guy for our big man depth (I would prefer Elson), and a nice pick.
Theory is that while this draft is not brilliant in stars there are some nice picks to be had, but not really at our position when Blair, Lawson, Curry, etc. all will be gone.
I have studied the "Gilbert Arenas provision" some more, and I fear that kills my hopes to land 2 year free agents like Bass or Sessions because that stupid thing doesn’t allow you to outbid cash strapped teams. The best you can do is offer the MLE to start and then do a back loaded contract that balloons in later years, but most teams will match that hoping they can find a solution later. So currently I’m thinking more about the draft and lopsided draft day deals again.
by Norsktroll on May 8, 2009 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here is an answer regarding the Bucks trade up idea
That’s very interesting
I’d say anything that allows us to clear salary has to be on the table, and in this draft moving down 14 spots might not be the biggest deal. I’m not an expert on this crop of talent, but there does seem to be a lack of excitement about the guys in the latter half of the lottery. I imagine the Bucks’ willingness to do this kind of deal comes down to three things:
a) Whether they see a significant gap between 10 and 24
b) Whether they think they can get a contributor from the second round (drafting Mbah a Moute last year might give them added confidence)
c) How confident they are that they can deal Ridnour for either some space or help at another position. In a perfect world they would have dealt him for an expiring deal at the deadline, but now the options for getting an NG’ed guy that they can cut to clear space are obviously much lower.
One issue: I’m pretty sure Elson and Allen don’t have to decide on their player options until the end of June, ie after the draft. So you wouldn’t officially be able to trade them before the draft. I suppose you could do have the Blazers pick for the Bucks and vice versa on the condition that Elson/Allen take their POs and the trade goes through after the moratorium. Still, it’s a bit tricky, and eyeballing it I don’t see them having the dollars to get both CV and Ramon anyway.
Can we just give you Ridnour and #10 for #24 and forget about the cash? This would be predicated on you guys having cap space and then waiting until July to officially make the deal. You’d then have eight point guards, but…
www.BrewHoop.com by Frank Madden on May 8, 2009 10:49 PM PDT
by Norsktroll on May 9, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he is a LONG way from being ready
think of an extremely raw bayless…
2 years at least before he gets any run at ALL
by GreatOden'sRaven on May 11, 2009 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This seems well reasoned and likely to provoke good discussion...
I’m not sure it belongs around here anymore
formerly fromagnon... I remember back in the day... way back before you young cats were around, back when I ruled the jersey contest... back when it meant something... back when hip-hop was alive
by The Arkitect on May 8, 2009 3:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ah yes
unlike the days when you couldn’t swing a cat without hitting someone proclaiming Sergio was totally getting screwed over. Or the days before that when any negative comment about Zach Randolph or Sebastian Telfair’s defense was met with accusations of bias or non-fandom. The good old days were much better.
—Dave
by Dave on May 8, 2009 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It got too good.
Like Starbucks.
this has been a message from: "The People's Alliance to give Greg Oden at Least a Couple of Seasons"
by bforsythe on May 8, 2009 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we can't make fun of ourselves...
what is left?
formerly fromagnon... I remember back in the day... way back before you young cats were around, back when I ruled the jersey contest... back when it meant something... back when hip-hop was alive
by The Arkitect on May 8, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Making fun of
TominHawaii is the standard.
by Dave on May 8, 2009 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My list ='s you on it
I’ll work out the details later.
by tominhawaii on May 8, 2009 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
See the whole TiH vs TiR feud has me feeling strangely compassionate for TiH
I have sympathy for my fellow man
formerly fromagnon... I remember back in the day... way back before you young cats were around, back when I ruled the jersey contest... back when it meant something... back when hip-hop was alive
by The Arkitect on May 8, 2009 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love it, and think it's brilliant.
Our very own “well behaved” troll, has his very own not so well behaved pet troll. It’s a beautiful thing.
I am no longer able to participate in this discussion due to a moderators request...
by TrentEdwardsHoF2018
by Screen Name on May 8, 2009 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thoughtful post
Promoted to enourage discussion.
—Dave
by Dave on May 8, 2009 3:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I also appreciated
how you asked for reflection and counter-argument. Thank you!
—Dave
by Dave on May 8, 2009 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like how you padded your post count
by posting 3 times in less than 3 mins!
by usmcr3049 on May 8, 2009 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just trying to earn cred
so I can become a regular member.
—Dave
by Dave on May 8, 2009 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love you Dave
But Timbo could pwn you in nanosecond.
Great post usmcr3049. My only problem with it would be that the Blazers won’t have to trade up much, if at all for Tyler Hansbrough. Sergio will have to find another way to New York. It’s epic in every other way though.
by tominhawaii on May 8, 2009 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey dave
later, not latter. Last line first paragraph.
Can’t wait to dig in!!!
by 50backflips on May 8, 2009 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I fixed it
Even though I try as hard as I can, proof read even, I can’t get them all!
by usmcr3049 on May 8, 2009 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, my mind boggles. A great front page post made by a commenter! Nice one USMCR3049
by 50backflips on May 8, 2009 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree--nice work usmcr--rec....
What does usmcr3049 mean, anyway? Sounds like a randomly generated password.
I like the whole team.
by RenoBlazerFan on May 8, 2009 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it means
USMCR = United States Marine Corps Reserve
3049 = my platoon number in boot
by usmcr3049 on May 8, 2009 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
awesome--thanks for your service--
I like the whole team.
by RenoBlazerFan on May 8, 2009 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for laying the Blazer blueprint on the table, usmcr.
I’m with Nick Van Excellent re The Birdman. The Blazers could use some veteran chops, nasty attitude, and tattoo funderment, and The Birdman brings all three in spades.
by MiledAnimal on May 8, 2009 3:40 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Almost a rec...
But you OBVIOUSLY haven’t been paying attention to my posts (haha)! :)
Steve Blake as a backup point guard, I believe, is just as important to our championship aspirations as who our starting point guard will be. He is not a starting point guard. He lacks the quickness, defense, and the ability to put pressure on the opposing defense. But he has won championships in HS and NCAA. He is tough, smart, and a good decision maker (except for tha ill timed 3 point attempt he made in game four in HOU – one strike).
Brandon Roy says we are competing for a championship now. Hopefully we land a starting PG who can help him. When that point guard is unable to play (needs a rest, foul trouble, injury) I want Steve Blake on the court. Not Jerryd Bayless. Not next year, probably not ever. You would think NBA fans would’ve learned their lessons by now from Steve Francis, Stephon Marbury, and Sebastian Telfair. Undersized scoring point guards, while exciting to watch, do not win ANYTHING.
I agree with everything else your post has to offer.
this has been a message from: "The People's Alliance to give Greg Oden at Least a Couple of Seasons"
by bforsythe on May 8, 2009 3:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Keeping Steve Blake as our #2....
is short-sighted.
by Portland Dynasty on May 8, 2009 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How is it shortsighted?
A better question may be: How do you know to tell a man keeping Steve Blake is short sighted?
"If you're going to be crazy, you have to get paid for it or else you're going to be locked up."
by GonzoFan on May 8, 2009 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blake is a pretty good guard right now...
Blake is truly in his prime… and for a guard in his prime he didn’t look very good at all against a mediocre guard crop that Houston brought to us in the playoffs. Blakes game is likely gonna start falling off in two seasons, or at least that is how far I give his skill level and athleticism to continue to be adequate for NBA standards. Two more seasons is barely into this Blazers group window. Portland may be able to get a shot next season, but the year after that (2011) is more realistic and was ultimately the timeline that the architect’s of this team were shooting for.
Blake couldn’t handle Aaron Brooks, Kyle Lowry or Von Wafer… while in his prime. I know Steve brings lots of good things to the table, but it is short-sighted to think that Blake, a 30-year-old, is gonna be Portlands answer off the bench when he is 32. I think Steve is reasonable to keep around next season as a starter as long as Portland is developing a PG behind him (Jerryd Bayless needs game time/experience to show us what he has). I could see Steve staying with the team past his option for next season, but it would be in the PG3 role and only get spot play. It is just that Blakes’ game is not gonna get better much better than what he gave during this playoff series and it was too little, even IF Steve were playing with a much improved team around him. I like Blake and believe Portland could win 50+ games with him at the helm for two more seasons, but we aren’t looking at being a 50+ win team…. we are looking at being a championship team.
by Portland Dynasty on May 11, 2009 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I think much more was expected of Greg early on,
which would have opened our window much sooner then your projection, minus the micro-wtf, we coulda been reaching for gold this year, but as it is, 211’s a pretty safe bet. Though I’de venture a guess that we could very easily contend next year.
I am no longer able to participate in this discussion due to a moderators request...
by TrentEdwardsHoF2018
by Screen Name on May 11, 2009 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well said
"What's so interesting is that this team took on a dynamic that was very special. I don't think we as a group, in terms of management, coaches and players, realize what we did as a young team. We broke all the metrics. We broke all the molds. Our challenge is can we continue to do that. As young of a team with 54 wins, no issues off the court, phenomenal chemistry." - Kevin Pritchard
by lee3022 on May 11, 2009 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The difference between Bayless and
the guards you mentioned, is they were all starting point guards. I don’t think this team can win if Jerryd is the starting point, unless is really develops into more of a pure point. But as you seen in Cleveland with Mo Wiilliams, an offensive point guard, who can drive and dish, or drive and score, really helps a team.
Steve is serviceable, but there are better options, and having a young hungery player like Bayless backing up the point for 20 mins a night will tell us if he has the ability to become that starting point. Otherwise, we have Hinrich and Blake who are both about the same age, and will get old at about the same time, leaving this team short at the PG toward the end of this teams run. I would rather have Hinrich and Bayless, the teacher and the student if you will. Hopefully Bayless can over take him in a few years, and Hinrich will be dealt, and replaced, or he will be a quality back up for the rest of this teams run. It just works out better.
by usmcr3049 on May 8, 2009 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
So true.
Hinrich is smart and in my humble opinion would be a better teacher for the young guys.
He is a Captain after all.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on May 8, 2009 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rose grew serious when talking about how Kirk Hinrich would text him about play calls and personnel, even when thumb surgery sidelined Hinrich.
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
by wjb1492 on May 8, 2009 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
texting with a bad thumb?
Now there’s a team player – Elgin
Brandon Roy: Strengths-remarkably efficient player who appears to effortlessly score and facilitate. Weakness-he’s just a figment of your imagination. - Canis Hoopus
by 22baylor on May 11, 2009 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is also a Jayhawk!
"What's so interesting is that this team took on a dynamic that was very special. I don't think we as a group, in terms of management, coaches and players, realize what we did as a young team. We broke all the metrics. We broke all the molds. Our challenge is can we continue to do that. As young of a team with 54 wins, no issues off the court, phenomenal chemistry." - Kevin Pritchard
by lee3022 on May 11, 2009 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Steve Blake a lot.
But this argument makes sense to me. Don’t know if I would want to do it yet, but thank you for presenting this side of the argument for me.
Of all the things that can be expressed in the printed word – love, hate, fear, joy – true humor is the one that is the most difficult of all. Sarcasm, for example, is an art of delicate subtlety. Yet too many people wield it as a bulldozer – loud, smelly, ugly, and destructive – and think they are being funny.
by T Darkstar on May 8, 2009 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agree completely
See my comment below “Undersizes SG, ……”
by upper left corner on May 9, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
although Mo Williams learned to shoot
waiting on Bayless to do that
by GreatOden'sRaven on May 11, 2009 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bayless is not undersized for a scoring PG - but like the others, he isn't a PG
If Bayless gets a good outside game going, he will be a great back-up SG, maybe even a starter on a team with size at the point. Think somewhere between Juan Dixon and Ben Gordon. Maybe he’ll even get good enough to start a la Richard Hamilton, but I don’t think his outside shooting will ever get that good.
I know the team is hoping for a Tony Parker or Monta Ellis, but I don’t believe yet.
by hoopla-pdx on May 8, 2009 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's already more of a PG than Ellis...
and he actually looks like he’s trying to pass, which in a weird way may have screwed up his offensive game. He doesn’t look comfortable playing the point, but he certainly looks like he knows that he’s supposed to distribute the ball. That’s important because a lot of combo guards just don’t want to pass period.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on May 8, 2009 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Decision making.....
If you watch Bayless closely, he is trying to figure out when to try to score and when to try to pass. This “thinking” causes some hesitation and impedes his progress in both areas.
To me, more than anything else, Bayless looks like a guy who is trying too hard. He wants to please, and he wants to succeed. Once he gets more regular minutes, I expect that he will relax and his play will benefit greatly. Dude’s spring is wound wayyyyy tight.
by upper left corner on May 9, 2009 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps, but remember...
people used to say all the same things about a young Jermaine O’Neal.
by dbomb on May 11, 2009 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Undersized SG." You all are swallowing a myth, whole. This line ticks me off more than just about anything on this board.
There is absolutely no reason to believe that Bayless has anything less than all the tools necessary to become a good PG.
It is certainly not a done deal, but there is no reason not to be optimistic.
All the guys you list in your list of failed PGs are all “selfish” and “uncoachable.” Have we seen any indication that Bayless is selfish and uncoachable? Absolutely not.
Quick even wrote an article saying that Nate had given Bayless his personal cell # and that it was not uncommon for Bayless to call him a couple of times a day to discuss one or more aspects of PG play. KP said that Bayless and Webster were his candidates for biggest progress over the summer.
Bayless has plenty to learn, and it is an open question as to whether or not he will be successful, but repeatedly putting out the same BS line without any analysis to back it up does not advance the discussion around here.
by upper left corner on May 9, 2009 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
Rec.
It’s playing PG, not rocket science.
Bayless isn’t some dumb jock, he plans on attending law school after his career is over, he’s a bright kid from a family of professionals who value education. He can learn the nuances of playing PG. It’s really not that difficult to run the pick and roll if you have the physical ability, you just need reps. Repetitions are what leads to the ability to make good decisions in an instant, paved neural pathways lead to quick and efficient decisions.
I just don’t understand this whole “Small SG” stuff. I mean, Allen Iverson is not WILLING to be a PG, that’s why he isn’t one. All it takes is coachability and Bayless has showing a willingness to be coachable, he just needs reps.
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
by HurraKane212 on May 9, 2009 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The "undersized SG" label has been thrown around so much it has become conventional wisdom among a certain subset around here
It is rarely accompanied by any analysis at all. I find it infuriating.
I challenge anyone who uses this line to actually put together a coherent argument to support the label.
by upper left corner on May 9, 2009 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
there is a far more clear likeness in Bayless' game to...
Monta Ellis or Leandro Barbosa (if Bayless could ever shoot), than to any point guard roaming the streets right now. Coherent arguments are few and far between, and getting one on either side of this thing is bound to have holes.
by as11osu on May 9, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chauncey Billups is the I’d compare him to. They said the same things about him when he came into the league and he figured out how to play point.
And Jerryd had Nate to teach him.
by danielfarrell on May 10, 2009 6:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've never said that about Bayless, but I do agree with it.
- The only time he’s had lengthy minutes against NBA players was during Summer League. He proved adept at driving, shooting, and scoring, which is what you’d want from a shooting guard.
- I wouldn’t say he cannot learn to play the point, but he seems a lot more comfortable shooting and scoring than distributing the ball.
- NBA shooting guards probably average at least 6’5" and Bayless is 6’3", which would be considered short for that position.
Old-school didn’t differentiate between PG and SG, they were both just guards. I don’t know why any coach would not want both his guards to be able to pass, dribble, shoot, drive, and dish.
by MiledAnimal on May 9, 2009 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The point is that Bayless has all the physical attributes and most of the skill set of a shooting guard
He has the speed, strength, handle, and defensive quickness to be a highly successful PG
What you guys are really questioning is whether he has the “right attitude,” “court vision,” and “decision making skills.”
As I said above, so far we have seen no indication that Bayless is selfish and only wants to score. We have seen no indication that he is uncoachable. We have seen him struggle with decision making, but this primarily seems to be a result of lack of experience. The kid was an honor role student. He isn’t dumb.
The outcome is not guaranteed, but if you take a guy with the right physical attributes the right attitude and a world class work ethic, odds are he is going to figure it out.
Conley struggled at Memphis for a season and a half. Hollins gave him some room, and now everybody is in love with his game. Bayless averaged between 6 and 7 assists per game in HS. It is a sort of Bizzaro world when the guy’s ability to score is seen as evidence that he can’t possibly learn to distribute.
by upper left corner on May 9, 2009 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
GRRR I meant POINT GUARD in the subject line.
Trying to babysit my grandson and type at the same time.
by upper left corner on May 9, 2009 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doing an admirable job of it, I'd say.
Teach the kid to type and take dictation.
by MiledAnimal on May 9, 2009 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's bright for a two-and-a-half year old, but that might be asking a bit much....
….kinda like asking Nic to lock-up Lebron.
by upper left corner on May 9, 2009 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has not demonstrated excellent court sense
and some pundits believe this is intuitive and not taught. However Mario Chalmers was seen as lacking this as well and started the whole season at PG for Miami (of course having Dwyane Wade to throw the ball to does make him easier assists).
"What's so interesting is that this team took on a dynamic that was very special. I don't think we as a group, in terms of management, coaches and players, realize what we did as a young team. We broke all the metrics. We broke all the molds. Our challenge is can we continue to do that. As young of a team with 54 wins, no issues off the court, phenomenal chemistry." - Kevin Pritchard
by lee3022 on May 11, 2009 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rec. Excellent Breakdown of one way of moving ahead.
I think taking a risk with Leon Powe is well worth it. If he can come back without losing any of his athleticism, he’d be an outstanding role player and a great addition to the second unit. He rebounds well, plays good defense, everything you want your backup PF to do.
I’m still not sold on Hinrich as I don’t see how a 41% career FG shooter with the same passing ability as Blake is going to improve the offense (though the defense upgrade he gives us over Blake is undeniable.) I’d rather see us go after a guy like Mike Bibby or Raymond Felton. Ricky Rubio is still the dream pickup, but we need help in the lottery for that to be possible.
This was still an extremely well thought out post.
Yes! Yes! In the face!
by LeafHawk on May 8, 2009 3:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Isn't anyone worried about recent micro-fracture surgery? Doesn't that sound familiar? Powe should not even be discussed.
I am not a micro-fracture surgerologist, but he’s not gonna be ready to play in October, is he?
I like the whole team.
by RenoBlazerFan on May 8, 2009 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No I don't think he will be ready
at all next year, which is why I also planned to sign Joe Smith, just for next year. After than Powe should be healed to 100% if he is going to be at all.
by usmcr3049 on May 8, 2009 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Powe also tore BOTH ACL's in high school
He was a medical marvel at Cal. He would have been a great fit…. now, NO THANK YOU.
by kobisportsguy on May 9, 2009 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
so if he is a medical marvel
why wouldnt he come back from this injury sooner and in great shape?
by GreatOden'sRaven on May 11, 2009 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My read on knee injuries
is that they compound and after several on the same knee can be crippling early in a career. I like this player and hope he recovers completely.
"What's so interesting is that this team took on a dynamic that was very special. I don't think we as a group, in terms of management, coaches and players, realize what we did as a young team. We broke all the metrics. We broke all the molds. Our challenge is can we continue to do that. As young of a team with 54 wins, no issues off the court, phenomenal chemistry." - Kevin Pritchard
by lee3022 on May 11, 2009 7:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
while thats completely logical
Powe has proven time and time again that he is able to recover from what for the rest of us would be life altering injuries to play at a high level. I’m not advocating signing him, but it seems odd to write him off now because he suffered a horrific injury before and came back to be better than ever.
by GreatOden'sRaven on May 12, 2009 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, here's my previously posted idea regarding a potential overhaul.
1. Right before the 2009 NBA Draft, trade Steve Blake and Travis Outlaw — who both have non-guaranteed contracts for the 2009-2010 season — as well as the draft rights of Petteri Koponen to the Chicago Bulls for Kirk Hinrich.
2. Select DeJuan Blair in the first-round of the 2009 NBA Draft, even if it costs cash considerations or any of the team’s four second-round draft picks to move up and get him; subsequently, sign Blair to a four-year, rookie scale contract.
3. Select a defensive-minded point guard (e.g., Darren Collison) with the #32 pick and a tall, sharp-shooting combo guard (e.g., Nick Calathes) with the #38 pick, so long as those picks aren’t moved earlier in an attempt to snag Blair; subsequently, sign Collison and Calathes to two-year, minimum-level contracts (i.e., 2009-2010: $457,588 & 2010-2011: $762,195).
4. Don’t tender Channing Frye a one-year, $4,264,760 qualifying offer.
5. Wish Shavlik Randolph well in unrestricted free agency.
6. Usher Michael Ruffin into retirement.
7. After the July moratorium, re-sign Raef LaFrentz to a three-year, $16.65 million contract (i.e., $5.55 annually) — with only the first season including a guaranteed salary — and trade him in conjuction with LaMarcus Aldridge and Rudy Fernandez to the Toronto Raptors for Chris Bosh.
8. Trade Martell Webster, Jerryd Bayless, and Sergio Rodriguez to the Minnesota T’wolves for Mike Miller.
9. Sign Steve Blake — so long as he’s waived by the Chicago Bulls after the Hinrich trade — to a two-year, $4,139,200 contract (i.e., 2009-2010: $1,990,000 & 2010-2011: $2,149,200) with the bi-annual exception.
10. Sign Quinton Ross to a one-year, $1,033,342 contract — which is thie minimum for players with six years of NBA experience — to be a defensive-minded backup for Brandon Roy at shooting guard.
11. Sign Robert Swift and Ime Udoka to one-year, $959,111 contracts — which is the minimum for players with five years of NBA experience — to fill out the bench.
12. Invite Joel Freeland over to the United States and sign him to a four-year, rookie scale contract.
Here’d be that theoretical roster.
C: Greg Oden
C: Joel Przybilla
C: Robert Swift
PF: Chris Bosh
PF: DeJuan Blair
PF: Joel Freeland
SF: Nicolas Batum
SF: Mike Miller
SF: Ime Udoka
SG: Brandon Roy
SG: Quinton Ross
SG: Nick Calathes
PG: Kirk Hinrich
PG: Steve Blake
PG: Darren Collison
That team could win the 2010 NBA Finals.
http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/4/30/861162/answers-to-some-questions#15098322
Even if you scratch the trade of LaMarcus Aldridge, Rudy Fernandez, and Raef LaFrentz’s “zombie contract” — which is a nickname that another poster came up for it a few weeks ago — for Chris Bosh, it’s still an outright solid ballclub right there.
by AK1984 on May 8, 2009 3:48 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
you had me till #7--why trade half the team away? We're just gettin' started....
How does your overhaul reflect on the cap/luxury tax, assuming the same $70M and change threshold? I mean, after eliminating that silly option #7.
I like the whole team.
by RenoBlazerFan on May 8, 2009 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Miller....why?
The starters look good, but that team is bringing basically nothing off the bench. I think the trade for Chris Bosh is unnecessary and you would be getting rid of fan favorite Rudy Fernandez for a minor upgrade at PF. But really, it’s not even an upgrade because we would be giving up more talent that we take back.
I’m more confused as to why we would want to pick up Mike Miller after his worst year in a while. Trading for 30 year old wings who can’t even put up decent numbers on a bad team doesn’t seem like the thing to do with our young talent.
"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"
by Magnum on May 8, 2009 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
All right, I'll do my best to objectively illuminate the positives of Mike Miller.
1. Miller is under contract through just the 2009-2010 season, with his salary next year at $9,880,937.
2. Miller is an outstanding defensive rebounder and passer for a man at his position — as well as a remarkably efficient shooter — so he brings a variety of skills to the table as a sixth man.
3. Here’s a side-by-side statistical comparison between Miller and Travis Outlaw.
Player Efficiency Rating: Outlaw 15.1 > Miller 13.8 …
Wins Produced Per 48 Minutes: Miller .210 > Outlaw .043
True Shooting Percentage: Miller 58.8% > Outlaw 54.1% …
Effective-Field Goal Percentage on Jump Shots: Miller 52.3% > Outlaw 47.9% …
Fouls Drawn Per Field-Goal Attempt: Outlaw 10.4% > Miller 9.4% …
Total Rebound Percentage: Miller 12.0 > Outlaw 9.1 …
Assist Percentage: Miller 21.6 > Outlaw 6.3 …
Assists to Turnover Ratio: Miller 2.25 > Outlaw 0.88 …
Net On-Court/Off-Court Points Per 100 Possessions: Miller -1.1 > Outlaw -6.2 …
Net Points Allowed Per 100 Possessions: Outlaw +2.0 > Miller +2.3 …
Net Effective Field-Goal Percentage Allowed: Outlaw -1.8% > Miller +1.7%.
Miller wins on 7 out of 11 of those metrics — which is ironic since I once worked at 7-Eleven — and is clearly more versatile than Outlaw on offense. Now, although Miller isn’t a great defender, that can be compensated by signing someone like Ime Udoka to be a one-on-one lockdown wing defender off of the bench.
by AK1984 on May 8, 2009 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, Miller is slightly better than Outlaw in 7 of 11 categories...
BUT, Mike Miller is also 5 years older and more than twice as much money…. Then when you look at how MINIMALLY Miller is better than Outlaw, it doesn’t really make sense. I mean, if we are gonna have $9.5M tied up in a player, we might as well pry Luol Deng away from Chicago cuz those fools are down on Deng right now. Deng is younger and provides better D and rebounding than either Miller or Outlaw. But for the money, I’d take Outlaw over Miller, and it wouldn’t cost us anything.
by Portland Dynasty on May 8, 2009 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Miller, however, is substantially better at rebound percentage, assist percentage, ...
and assist-to-turnover ratio than Travis Outlaw. Miller’s shooting efficieny is also still a helluva lot higher than that of Outlaw, even though people give the guy way too much flack for deferring to his teammates in Minnesota. Then again, Miller was stuck playing next to a poor backcourt in Randy Foye and Sebastian Telfair; thus, I can’t blame him for wanting to sometimes be the main distributor over those two guys.
by AK1984 on May 8, 2009 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Statistics.
Hm. Never heard a coach preach “rebound percentages” i na locker room before. Must be that new math.
"If you're going to be crazy, you have to get paid for it or else you're going to be locked up."
by GonzoFan on May 8, 2009 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
HM! NEVER HEARD A COACH PREACH “REBOUND PERCENTAGES” IN A LOCKER ROOM BEFORE. MUST BE THAT NEW MATH!
"If you're going to be crazy, you have to get paid for it or else you're going to be locked up."
by GonzoFan on May 8, 2009 7:31 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Why?
Is that a law or something?
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on May 9, 2009 12:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha
It's = It Is
Its = Belongs to It
by 12sharks on May 9, 2009 3:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's also better at growing hair.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on May 8, 2009 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can’t coach that.
"If you're going to be crazy, you have to get paid for it or else you're going to be locked up."
by GonzoFan on May 8, 2009 7:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're comments all make me chuckle. :)
by teenagemutantninjabayless on May 8, 2009 11:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s good right? What’s up wit hthis Garces guy. Does he work here?
"If you're going to be crazy, you have to get paid for it or else you're going to be locked up."
by GonzoFan on May 9, 2009 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I always amuses me....
…when people try to justify accepting the deficiencies of one player, in this case Miller’s poor D, by suggesting we get another player (Udoka) who is good in that category and theoretically will make up for it. As if you can utiize only each players’ strengths simultaneously…
by socalblazer on May 8, 2009 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Miller
Really? We need to get better at defense and old, not particularly quick jump shooters don’t that cause much. And any offensive improvement needs to come in the form of a guy who can score in the paint within our halfcourt system—as that’s what’s effective in the play offs.
by wepto on May 8, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Way too many moves, little brother...
how many times do I need to tell you, less is more… unless we are talking about girlfriends or beer!
by Portland Dynasty on May 8, 2009 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So from 54 game winning team to complete overhaul?
seems like trout fishing with dynamite
formerly fromagnon... I remember back in the day... way back before you young cats were around, back when I ruled the jersey contest... back when it meant something... back when hip-hop was alive
by The Arkitect on May 8, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
that's what I was thinking....why?
I like the whole team.
by RenoBlazerFan on May 8, 2009 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you remove #7 and #10 from my off-season checklist, this'd be the revised roster projection.
C: Greg Oden
C: Joel Przybilla
C: Robert Swift
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge
PF: DeJuan Blair
PF: Joel Freeland
SF: Nicolas Batum
SF: Mike Miller
SF: Ime Udoka
SG: Brandon Roy
SG: Rudy Fernandez
SG: Nick Calathes
PG: Kirk Hinrich
PG: Steve Blake
PG: Darren Collison
How does that fit everyone’s tastes?
Also, if Joel Freeland decides to stay overseas than re-signing Shavlik Randolph would be a decent counter move. Another possibility in that case would be to use one of the two late second-round picks on a potential third-string power forward like Taj Gibson, Josh Heytvelt, or Jeff Pendergraph.
by AK1984 on May 8, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your still replacing 8 out of 15 players
if my math is correct, and I like to think it is, that’s over half the roster
Still seems like overkill for a very good, VERY young team
formerly fromagnon... I remember back in the day... way back before you young cats were around, back when I ruled the jersey contest... back when it meant something... back when hip-hop was alive
by The Arkitect on May 8, 2009 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is a good point also
I think we can’t be afraid to make moves, (in the main post, I have added 6 new players to the team, but only 2 current rotation players were moved) but the moves have to make sense. I don’t see the Miller move, or the swift move making sense.
by usmcr3049 on May 8, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Portland Trail Blazers desperately need a third-string pivotman, with Robert Swift ...
being someone who could be that guy at a cheap, cost-effective rate. Due to the injury and foul prone nature of centers, I won’t tolerate another year of softies (e.g., Channing Frye), busts (e.g., Ike Diogu), and scrubs (e.g., Michael Ruffin) taking up valuable roster space.
by AK1984 on May 8, 2009 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm still laughing that at coming out of high school Swift was rated ahead of Aldridge
http://www.draftexpress.com/RSCI/2004/
On a serious note: Can you really see Pritchard sitting across from Swift and thinking “yeah, that’s the guy I want representing my organization. I feel fans and companies in Portland would love him”.
by Norsktroll on May 8, 2009 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if the time comes
during next season where I turn to my wife during a game and say, “man I wish we had signed Robert Switft during the offseason” I will burn my Greg Oden Jersey and buy a Kobe one.
Those times in games have so lilttle impact on the game, which is why no team keeps three 7 foot centers on their roster. I would much rather draft a 7 foot project center than sign Switft or a player like him.
by usmcr3049 on May 8, 2009 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
The new NBA
skews smaller, we need a backup PF who can bang, then if Gregzilla is in foul trouble we can put the backup PF at the 5 with Aldridge at the 4… and if they are in foul trouble too, then the fix is in and we’re not winning anyways
formerly fromagnon... I remember back in the day... way back before you young cats were around, back when I ruled the jersey contest... back when it meant something... back when hip-hop was alive
by The Arkitect on May 8, 2009 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've seen Swift play a few times.
Not sure I’ve ever seen him do anything basketball-related that makes me want him on my bench. His appearance makes me think “shameless self-promoter” — not that it necessarily has anything to do with rounding out a roster.
"If you're going to be crazy, you have to get paid for it or else you're going to be locked up."
by GonzoFan on May 8, 2009 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is basically the same list of player
I put in the main post, except for Swift, Miller, Calathes, and Udoka. The only major difference though is Miller, you basically swapped him for Webster, which I am not totally against, but Webster is more athletic, even if he doesn’t use that part of his game that much. Both are good shooters, Miller has the over all edge in stats I would assume, but Webster is cheaper and locked up long term at that cheap price. I would keep webster over miller, because of that.
I don’t see the point in signing Udoka, Batum is obviously the SF of this team, even Nate told him that much in his exit interview. Udoka is a defender who can hit the 3, which is what Batum is, but with added potential on top of all of that. On the cheap I would take him, but I think he will find a better deal elsewhere.
I don’t like Swift’s game, I read your post about him, and he is not as bad as some would like to declare, but I don’t think you have to have 3 legit 7 foot centers to compete, infact I can’t think of a team that has 3. With Oden, Przybilla, Freeland, Joe Smith, Blair, and Powe this team would be very well set up big man wise.
One other thing, I made a good effort in this plan to not have this team rely on rookies to produce, there are rookies on the team of course, but none of them would be in a position to make or break the season for the Blazers. On this list, you have Blair and Freeland being asked to provide consistant back up PF depth, I don’t like that. We saw this year, no matter who good your rookies are, they are not good enough for a team to win in the playoffs. I would rather have Joe Smith or Leon Powe playing 15 mins a game in the playoffs next year than Blair or Freeland, my guess is Coach Nate would too.
by usmcr3049 on May 8, 2009 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joe Smith will re-sign with the Cleveland Cavaliers and Leon Powe, who'll be coming off ...
of a serious injury with a torn ACL and torn meniscus in his left knee, may not be ready to play at the start of next season and would be smart to sign the one-year qualifying offer the Boston Celtics tender him as a restricted free-agent.
Next, Ime Udoka is the a defensive-minded wing player who’d be perfect on the Portland Trail Blazers in the capacity of a third-string weakside cornerman — especially if he’s playing next to an offensive-minded rookie Nick Calathes, who’ll need to shift from point guard to being a ballside wing in the NBA — so I’m all for bringing back the Portland State University alumnus.
On the topic of signing a third-string pivotman, Robert Swift obviously isn’t the snazziest name — as I personally would want to bring in Rasho Nesterovic; however, he’ll probably sign with Toronto to replace Jake Voskuhl as Andrea Bargnani’s backup, as well as mentor the team’s third-string frontline of Patrick O’Bryant and Nathan Jawai — nevertheless, the tall, shaggy red-head would be a useful 12th man on this Portland Trail Blazers.
by AK1984 on May 8, 2009 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well I just don't agree I guess.
Bringing back Udoka would be a waste to me, because I can’t see him playing any time behind Batum and Webster in my plan, or behind Miller and Batum in yours. There is just not enough minutes, he would be a blow out player and nothing more unless we had an injury. Which is the only reason I like the signing.
I don’t want this team relying on any rookies to contribute major minutes, which is why I don’t like the Nic Calathes move, or having Blair and Freeland back up LMA at the PF spot. I want solid vets who we know what they are going to give, night in and night out.
I don’t understand why some people really want a 3rd string center, maybe it is fear of Oden’s injury past, but there is no reason to have a 3rd center. At most a PF/C option is all that is needed. Even if the team signed Swift, and Greg and Joel both got into foul trouble during an important game, I can’t see Swift getting the call from Coach Nate. Instead Nate would go small with LMA and the 5, and Smith, Powe, or maybe Freeland at the 4 before they bring in Switft.
You might be right about Cleveland’s plans, but I wouldn’t call it set in stone. They have about $67.7 million committed to next year, leaving them just under $3 million to use to sign players before they go over the cap. And they have some of their major contributors needing to be resigned or replace, Pavlovic, Szczerbiak, Smith, Varejao and even Ilgauskas can be free agents. They paid out $92 million this year, so they will pay the luxury tax, but like I said, nothing is set in stone yet.
by usmcr3049 on May 8, 2009 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nick Calathes wouldn't be relied on to play major mintues; rather, he'd be playing ...
in the D-League to start the season with Joel Freeland. The third and final spot on the inactive list would go to Darren Collison, with third-string pivotman Robert Swift and defensive stopper Ime Udoka being out of the rotation while earning only spot minutes when called upon to fill their specific roles.
For the Cleveland Cavaliers, here’s moves Danny Ferry should make this off-season.
Before the July moratorium
1. Select Marcus Thornton with the 30th pick in the 2009 NBA Draft and sign him to a four-year, rookie scale contract; also, select Danny Green 46th pick and sign him to a two-year, minimum-level contract (i.e., 2009-2010: $457,588 & 2010-2011: $762,195), with the second season non-guaranteed if he’s waived by 8/1/2010.
2. Expect that neither Zydrunas Ilgauskas doesn’t exercise his early termination option and Anderson Varejao does exercise his player option.
After the July moratorium
3. Acquire David West from the cash-strapped New Orleans Hornets.
FROM CLEVELAND & TO NEW ORLEANS
PF Ben Wallace ($14,000,000)
SF Aleksander Pavlovic ($4,750,000) {Partially Guaranteed For $1,500,000 Next Season}
PF J.J. Hickson ($1,429,200)
SG Tarence Kinsey ($855,189) {Non-Guaranteed Next Season}
PF Darnell Jackson ($736,420) {Non-Guaranteed Next Season}
SF Jawad Williams ($736,420) {Unsure Of Guaranteed Status Next Season}
Total Outgoing Salaries: $22,507,229 X 125% = $28,134,036
FROM NEW ORLEANS & TO CLEVELAND
PF David West ($9,075,000)
PG Antonio Daniels ($6,600,000)
SF James Posey ($6,031,800)
SG Morris Peterson ($6,006,480)
Total Outgoing Salaries: $27,713,280*
*Any trade kickers included in the contracts of Hornets involved in the proposal — such as James Posey and Morris Peterson — would have to be waived to seal the deal. Yet, if that can’t be hashed out, then Wally Szczerbiak could possibly be re-signed using his Bird rights and added to the trade to balance out salaries.
4. Re-sign Joe Smith to a two-year, $4,139,200 contract (i.e., 2009-2010: $1,990,000 & 2010-2011: $2,149,200) with the bi-annual exception.
5. Re-sign Lorenzen Wright to a one-year, minimum-level contract (i.e., $1,306,455 for players with ten or more years of service in the NBA).
7. Sign Juwan Howard to a one-year, minimum-level contract (i.e., $1,306,455 for players with ten or more years of service in the NBA).
2009-2010 ROSTER
C: Zydrunas Ilgauskas
C: Anderson Varejao
C: Lorenzen Wright
PF: David West
PF: Joe Smith
PF: Juwan Howard
SF: LeBron James
SF: James Posey
SF: Danny Green
SG: Delonte West
SG: Morris Peterson
SG: Marcus Thornton
PG: Maurice Williams
PG: Daniel Gibson
PG: Antonio Daniels
Yeah, that’s a scary team.
by AK1984 on May 8, 2009 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You had me until
FROM NEW ORLEANS & TO CLEVELAND
PF David West ($9,075,000)
PG Antonio Daniels ($6,600,000)
SF James Posey ($6,031,800)
SG Morris Peterson ($6,006,480)
You seriously think New Orleans is in such bad shape that they would send out 4 players who can not only play, but play well, for nothing resembling an NBA player? Ok maybe Pavlovic but the rest are unproven rookies or washed up vets! Every player going from New Orleans to Cleveland in this trade idea is a legit vet in the NBA who can provide consistant skills, that good teams need. No way New Orleans does this, they would trade CP3 first.
by usmcr3049 on May 8, 2009 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not even George Shinn is stupid enough to trade Chris Paul, for that would ...
devalue his franchise if he attempt to sell it to an out-of-town buyer. Unlike Paul, David West is an overrated commodity on the trade market who could allow the New Orleans Hornets to dump unwanted assets — such as James Posey and Morris Peterson — without completely damaging the on-court product. Heck, for Shinn’s sake, I hope Jeff Bower also understands that fact.
by AK1984 on May 8, 2009 11:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They already said they won't trade West...
even if it means they have to go over the tax.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on May 9, 2009 7:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure trading Tyson Chandler or Peja Stojakovic is Jeff Bower's ...
for salary relief is his first and foremost objective, but when push comes to shove it wouldn’t shock me if George Shinn just said screw it and put David West up on the trading block.
Chris Paul, however, is going nowhere.
by AK1984 on May 9, 2009 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Both trades
do effectively the same thing, and that is devalue the oncourt product. The trade you proposed is a straight salary dump, and would put the Hornets in the lottory. All 4 players you are shipping from New Orleans to Cleveland are rotation players for the Hornets, and they get maybe one rotation player in return. I can’t see that happening.
by usmcr3049 on May 9, 2009 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I knew a useful 12th man once.
He used to be a bellman at a hotel in Oswego, NY. Great at carrying luggage.
"If you're going to be crazy, you have to get paid for it or else you're going to be locked up."
by GonzoFan on May 8, 2009 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You got rid of the two players KP touted for biggest off-season improvement: Bayless and Webster
I know, lets trade away two of our top under twenty-five prospects for three guys close to thirty, two of whom (Hinrich and Miller) have had significant injuries.
Your approach seems very short sighted to me. Looks like you are sacrificing the future for questionable short term gains.
by upper left corner on May 9, 2009 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny
Why would the Bulls cut Blake? This plan is crap.
"The brownies,'' Fernandez said after the game. "The brownies are good for me to make three-points.''
by Sabonis4Ever on May 8, 2009 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess you're not aware that the Chicago Bulls are cash-strapped and need to cut some salary ...
to re-sign Ben Gordon without going over the luxury tax next season. Jerry Reinsdorf is a rich man, but even he’s fiscally prudent in most situations.
by AK1984 on May 8, 2009 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say more cheap than cash-strapped. ;)
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
by wjb1492 on May 8, 2009 8:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
they won't resign
Gordon, he wants too much and after that first round he will get it from someone. If they are smart, and I assume they are, (not always a good choice) they would keep Blake over Gordon. Blake is a bankable vet who will play his role on that team perfectly, while Gordon thinks he is more than he is.
by usmcr3049 on May 8, 2009 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The whole point in trading Kirk for Blake would be to have enough money
to resign Ben. If they’re letting Ben walk, they’ll just keep Kirk to back up the 1 and 2 (barring, of course, the chance to trade him for that ever-elusive offensively gifted big man). The whole reason Blake keeps coming up for Bulls fans (and no offense intended to him, because I think he had a great season) is because he contract isn’t guaranteed and there aren’t a whole lot of those to choose from.
(Of course, that’s just a fan’s view)
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
by wjb1492 on May 8, 2009 11:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow, so your saying that Bulls fans
want the team to resign Gordon? No matter what cost?
Word of advise from a non-bulls-fan, he is not worth what he wants. Anything over $10 million per year is crazy, and he already turned that down. The Bulls should look for cheaper options who can do the same thing as Gordon, there are lots of undersized gunners in the NBA, or better yet, invest in something that might make the bulls a legit championship contender again. Rose, Noah, and maybe Thomas if he continues to improve. The rest of that roster of roleplayers can be replaced, I think the bulls are hurt by being in the East. They gave us one of the greatest 1st round series, but they miss out on a high draft pick that could return value to them. The bulls seem stuck where the Blazers where about 7 or 8 years ago, good enough to make the playoffs, but not good enough to make much noise in them. Unless Rose turns into CP3, which he could, they need better options around him.
by usmcr3049 on May 9, 2009 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, that's not what I'm saying
Obviously there’s a price where the Bulls don’t resign Ben, and from the org history and what was said last year that price is presumed to be the dollar amount where the Bulls enter the luxury tax. As things stand now, that would be a contract Ben has no interest in, nor should he.
I’m saying that Bulls fans look at trading with Portland because (a) you all have expressed an interest in picking up Kirk, and (b) you have some non-guaranteed contracts on your team, guys the Bulls could cut in order to make a better offer to Ben without getting into the LT. Most Bulls fans want Ben back (at a reasonable cost) for his offense – and I think you are underestimating what role Ben plays on the Bulls. 20 ppg scorers aren’t all that common, and Ben does that with a high level of efficiency for us. There’s a reasonable argument that he’s significantly more important to us right now because of team makeup than he would be to anyone else.
And with Ben back and Kirk gone, Bulls fans would not want Blake at his cost playing limited minutes to backup Derrick – either a rookie or vet-minimum guy is more in line with the thinking. If it’s looking like there’s no chance to sign Ben, Bulls fans would rather have Kirk back another season (or half season) playing supersub than exchange him for Blake. Only a very small minority of Bulls fans talk about trading for Blake as a means to having him on the team – with Ben back, he’d be looking at maybe 10 minutes a night in a strict backup PG role. The fans that want both Ben and Kirk gone want a stud big man in return, not Blake. Maybe Ben ends up not resigning anyway, but Blake would have already been cut to make room for the possibility, and in that case the Bulls take the cap space and work with that.
And don’t make the mistake of thinking this is the only trade that Bulls fans are envisioning this summer, or that keeping one of Kirk or Ben to start next season means Bulls fans see them as long-term fits. Sure, role players can be replaced – but we’ve got some excellent role players right now, and the guys you’re talking about forming the core are still on rookie contracts, leaving relatively more cap room for role player salaries. Moving our great role players for not-so-great ones doesn’t make sense for us right now because we’d be less competitive in the immediate future, and because we’d have less to offer salary-matching wise in future trades to improve the team.
Finally, considering the org has not met Ben’s demands the past two summers, and that his competing offers are likely to be lower this year because of the economy, I don’t think you need to worry too much about our owner significantly overpaying for Ben – by all reports, Reinsdorf is the least interested in having Ben back of anyone involved on the Bulls’ side of the organization.
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
by wjb1492 on May 9, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How much did Ben play as an off guard this year together with Rose?
I have usually only seen Kirk in that role, camping around the three point line waiting for a pass while Rose handles the ball. Blake would be a perfect replacement for that (offensively), making him also more attractive than just a salary dump for expiring “useless” guys like several teams could offer. The Bulls would save the difference between their salaries, but would still get a very capable replacement and a cheaper price. If Kirk (and potentially Ben since he could well get a good offer from OKC or Memphis or even Atlanta if they decide to spend money) leave the Bulls without a good guard returning I think the depth gets very shallow.
by Norsktroll on May 9, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ben played a lot with Derrick
82games hasn’t updated the player-pairs stuff in a while, but as of March 28 Derrick and Kirk had played 570 minutes together and Derrick and Ben 1963 minutes together. Of course, that is warped from Kirk missing the 31 games with the thumb surgery. Incidentally, Kirk and Ben had played 633 minutes together at that point. Ben spent a lot of that time camped outside the arc, but also much of it creating his own shot. I think you’d agree Blake’s not much of a replacement option for a guy who is counted on to create for himself, score in spite of double teams, and score big in clutch time?
Is this all a huge risk? Sure – Ben could leave anyway. The problem is the timing, with the decision on Blake due before negotiations with Ben can commence. If the Bulls are adamant about not signing the LT, there’s no option but to create cap space before July 1 to have a shot at Ben. If the Bulls hold onto Blake, I don’t think that gives them enough room under the tax to have a realistic shot at signing Ben, and if I only get one between Ben, Kirk and Blake to be on the team next year, Blake is my last choice. No offense to him intended at all – he is much cheaper than the other two. I just don’t think he brings as much – big drop off from Ben offensively, big drop of from Kirk defensively. And that little extra bit of cap space probably doesn’t get us to the kind of offensive big we want to pick up.
I don’t dislike Blake, and if the Bulls traded Kirk, dropped Blake, and lost Ben anyway that would really suck. I just don’t see the push to trade Kirk early except as a means to keep Ben, and we couldn’t keep Blake and still have a shot at Ben. Otherwise, we might as well wait till after the Bulls can start negotiating with Ben and see what happens there.
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
by wjb1492 on May 9, 2009 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are going to do all that and have Hinrich as your PG?!!?
If I blow up the team, I’m hoping to get someone a lot better.
You must not have watched the last third of the season; LMA was as good as Bosh, and appears to be on a nice development curve.
As far as our first draft pick, we’re probably better off taking an international prospect and letting them develop for a few years overseas. Either that or a long-shot on an overlooked potential guy at any position other than SG.
by hoopla-pdx on May 8, 2009 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LMA was almost as good as Bosh.
It was close, but only for a short time.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on May 8, 2009 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chris Bosh is an overall more productive player than LaMarcus Aldridge, which isn't up for debate.
by AK1984 on May 8, 2009 7:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because he plays on a team where he is the #1 scoring option
I would trade LMA for Bosh straight across (Toronto wouldn’t) but I sure wouldn’t loose Rudy for such a deal
by upper left corner on May 9, 2009 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
this mike miller thing makes you into a crackpot
and renders all your other reasoning suspect, since you always return to this obsession. and mike miller was named to the cnn/si anti all-star team as someone whose season was particularly bad.
ignacio
by ignacio on May 8, 2009 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Miller did his best in a bad situation, which is all you can ask for a talented role player like ...
him who’s got a multifaceted game offensively. Unlike Travis Outlaw, Miller is an intelligent, unselfish player who can dribble, pass, rebound, and shoot with way more proficiency than the hilariously inept “Trout” on the hardwood. At the weakside corner in Nate McMillan’s simple, albeit shockingly efficient high/low zone offense, Miller can spot up from beyond the arc and drain three-pointers, take his man off the dribble and drive down the baseline, or hit cutters like Rudy Fernandez on give-and-go plays.
by AK1984 on May 8, 2009 7:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about his well-documented aversion to shooting open shots this year?
ignacio
by ignacio on May 8, 2009 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and I don't deny Miller has skills.
It just seems like he has underachieved and now may have some kind of mental block. Certainly Steve Aschbrenner at Sports Illustrated wrote about him more than once; it seems like Chris Mannix at one point chimed in too.
ignacio
by ignacio on May 8, 2009 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have previously said that you thought MM could be a point-forward
I’m not sure if there’s much more delusional stuff than that, considering he has had a 2 A/T ratio a total of once since 2003 (and that was last year, when his 3PT% dropped below 38%).
by dprodigy19 on May 8, 2009 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even as a point forward, Mike Miller's TS% was higher than Travis Outlaw's TS%.
Outlaw, by the way, is pretty ineffective at both handling and distributing the basketball.
by AK1984 on May 8, 2009 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well thought out ideas
I’d disagree with the basic assumption that widespread change is needed right now, which would prevent me from making several of these moves.
I’d do the Hinrich trade. I’m not willing to concede that Bosh will give enough more production than LMA to justify trading Rudy. And although I like the idea of getting Miller, I’m not ready to let go of Bayless yet.
But you’ve clearly thought things out.
by Storyteller on May 9, 2009 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't realize my response would go down so far, so I'll clarify
that this is in response to AK1984’s plan for the summer.
by Storyteller on May 9, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the way I see it
is that every team who has won a title, with the exception of 2004 (the series in which Kobe shot his team out of contention), has had two top ten talents on their roster. Chris Bosh is already in that conversation. LaMarcus is not.
If it takes giving up a fantastic player in Rudy to get a second top ten guy, I’d do it in a second.
draft dejuan blair
by Cablinasian on May 9, 2009 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, the upgrade from LaMarcus Aldridge to Chris Bosh is worth the cost of Rudy Fernandez.
by AK1984 on May 9, 2009 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
titles are built on the backs of top-ten players
not good players. Great players.
draft dejuan blair
by Cablinasian on May 9, 2009 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
so, we come back to
“…if Greg Oden…”
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
by HurraKane212 on May 9, 2009 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For some reason, you might just be the only guy other than me who doesn't hate on Mike Miller.
by AK1984 on May 9, 2009 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
looking at 82games.com
I’m having trouble figuring out why you want him. He’s a average player who doesn’t play good defense and is a net minus. Also, he has terrible hair. I just don’t see how he helps fill gaps other than that he’s a decent passer.
I feel that we really need defense out of the 3. I’d like a big 3 like James Johnson (a 4/3) or Sam Young (big body) to help d up athletic wings like LeBron, Melo, and Wallace.
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
by HurraKane212 on May 9, 2009 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Regarding sites with NBA salary info, Storytellers and ShamSports are more accurate than HoopsHype.
by AK1984 on May 8, 2009 3:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I thought so too
which is why I used them all, but I found many mistakes on them all. Storytellers is my fav and first place to go for salary info, but he has Blakes contract at almost $5 million for next season, which I remember as too high. So I went with hoopshype who had him at just over $4 million, like I remember. But hey I could be wrong, if so the numbers might be off by almost a million, but when talking about nba salary caps, that is nothing.
by usmcr3049 on May 8, 2009 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah, Storytellers has Steve Blake's salary for next season listed correctly at $4,000,000.
It also references that Blake’s salary for next season is non-guaranteed if he’s waived by 6/30/2009.
by AK1984 on May 8, 2009 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are correct
and that is why I shouldn’t go by memory. It was hoopshype site that was off on Blake’s deal, but like I said, they are both pretty close over all, and unlike KP I don’t have to be perfect! :)
by usmcr3049 on May 8, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, nobody's perfect.
I make my fair share of mistakes, too.
by AK1984 on May 8, 2009 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Many mistakes? Many mistakes?
I’m shocked – shocked – that you would make such a venomous accusation without so much as a single example to prove your point…..oh, by the way, if you can’t come up with any examples, just let me know and I’ll give you half a dozen off the top of my head that I’ve had to correct in the last month alone – LOL!
Yes, the only truly flawless list of salaries is that published by the NBA itself and distributed regularly to the teams – but since I don’t have the luxury of seeing that list……
Seriously – if anyone sees something wrong on the site, please let me know. I get emails all the time from people all over the country who point out things that need to be corrected – you won’t hurt my feelings or incur my wrath or anything like that.
But I do have a small, ever so slight problem with comparisions to Hoopshype. Not only do they have Blake’s contract wrong and Outlaw’s contract wrong, they’ve even got Sergio’s contract wrong. I would argue that I’m a bit more accurate than Hoopshype.
And AK1984 is right about Sham – he’s the king. My site is formatted differently than his and I prefer the ‘all the teams on one page’ format – but if you ever have a doubt about a difference between Sham and Hoopshype, go with Sham 100% of the time.
by Storyteller on May 9, 2009 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't know
how you guys keep up with all the salary info, it just boggles my mind for sure…. good job!
Brandon Roy, 'nuff said.
by johnv59 on May 9, 2009 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
I scour the web for information. There are good sites and forums that help provide info. I rely on others with more ‘sources’ than I have. I don’t claim to be original or the best in what I do – but I do enjoy doing it. And if others get some benefit out of it – all the better.
by Storyteller on May 9, 2009 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
how is draftexpress
for salary info?
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
by HurraKane212 on May 9, 2009 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good
They work with Sham, whom I’ve already said is king among us amateurs.
by Storyteller on May 9, 2009 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
like the sig....
Brandon Roy, 'nuff said.
by johnv59 on May 9, 2009 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
BTW, I don't say this often
but I absolutely KNOW that I have Blake’s contract status and Outlaw’s contract status correct. I made a point to get their contracts confirmed by a true ‘source’ about a year ago. Hoopshype has them too high.
by Storyteller on May 9, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This might have a slight influence on draft plans so I put it here: Patrick Patterson withdraws to go back to Kentucky
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4153040
He was one of my potential targets if we don’t get Blair
by Norsktroll on May 8, 2009 3:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Patrick Patterson was my secondary target as a backup power forward behind DeJuan Blair.
Patterson, moreover, seemed like the most realistic possibility at #24 and even a safer pick than Blair — as the Pittsburgh standout does have some weight worries and questions surronding his man-to-man defense — so that hurts a bit. Gani Lawal is a raw, unrefined banger and Tyler Hansbrough doesn’t do it for me, which puts the Portland Trail Blazers in a bit of a quandry. Yeah, it’s now Blair or bust.
by AK1984 on May 8, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Patterson (6’9’’) is arguably the top returning forward in the SEC after averaging 17.9 points and 9.3 rebounds. He was expected to go late lottery to mid-twenties. The NBA’s deadline to withdraw from the draft is June 15, so it will take a while even after the lottery is over to know who will be available. The NBA and NCAA are looking into shortening the timeframe to pull out of the draft and declare to return.
“He said, ‘Wait a minute, I want to do this,’” new Kentucky head coach John Calipari said. “He said he would be wasting everybody’s time by staying in the draft, mine, yours and the NBA’s and ‘I just don’t want to do it.’”
by Norsktroll on May 8, 2009 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I too have wondered about Blair and his weight.
ignacio
by ignacio on May 8, 2009 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now, Portland HAS to find a way to trade up...
as the Power Forward position is that much thinner this season. At the point this franchise is at, we can’t just wait and draft Best Player Available, we need to target a player who fits the lunch-pail culture and fits the rotation plan… i.e. Back-up PF. DeJuan Blair or bust baby!!!!
by Portland Dynasty on May 8, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blair
Anyone think he is willing to accept maybe 20mpg?
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Edwin Jackson
Sign Othello Hunter & DJ Mbenga(Both for big man depth)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 8, 2009 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he doesn't really have a lot of options
Blair could:
1) choose to accept the minutes
2) demand a trade (which would be weak sauce for a guy who is more than likely going to spend the majority of his career as a solid role player)
3) go to europe (where his game doesn’t translate nearly as well as it would in the NBA).
"Smile! You're on a poster!!" - Mike Rice
by lefty6283 on May 8, 2009 8:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rec
great breakdown, lots of effort.
I think that if Bayless or Rudy step up and become that deadly scorer off the bench, we’ll be OK. I think that we can play Brandon at the 3 in a 3 guard lineup, however, I’d really like a big, physical wing to help against the “power 3’s” like James, Melo, Wallace, etc.
Maybe James Johnson in the draft could be a good 3/4 swingman.
Sidenote:
Patrick Patterson withdrawing will bump Gani Lawal’s stock up.
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
by HurraKane212 on May 8, 2009 3:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Rudy
still have more game in him than he showed, but I think Webster is what he is at this point. He’s a shooter who can occasionally drive to the hole. But he is not a playmaker, and unless Rudy or Bayless turn into that, the second unit wouldn’t have one, which means they would have to run very tight offensive sets to score. I just don’t see it happening. Like NVE said, it could happen, but there are better options to first consider in my book.
by usmcr3049 on May 8, 2009 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, I think keeping Rudy
will mean eventually losing webster.
I’m ok with that
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
by HurraKane212 on May 8, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depends...
If Webster has chronic foot issues ala Walton, he could accept a smaller role in an effort to lengthen his career. like what Walton did with the Celtics
formerly fromagnon... I remember back in the day... way back before you young cats were around, back when I ruled the jersey contest... back when it meant something... back when hip-hop was alive
by The Arkitect on May 8, 2009 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Walton Analogies
formerly fromagnon... I remember back in the day... way back before you young cats were around, back when I ruled the jersey contest... back when it meant something... back when hip-hop was alive
by The Arkitect on May 8, 2009 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This foot injury will defnitely have some sort of impact on Websters psychie...
Webster has 3 years on his deal at a very reasonable price for a guy who can score and defend pretty good, IF Martell can’t get into the starting line-up upon his return from this injury, we have 3 seasons to work with him before that is his decision. Martell will be an asset to this team in some way for sure. And, I think if need be, he will take on a smaller role.
by Portland Dynasty on May 8, 2009 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
so am I
Dwight Jaynes is right, that we need to give Rudy a more active role on this team, or we will lose him. He needs 28-30 mins a night, and a more active role than “spot up in the corner”.
by usmcr3049 on May 8, 2009 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ginobili only one year got over 30 minutes in his career. Rudy might pout a bit, but he won't immediately call for a trade.
That piece by Jaynes seemed a bit premature, though there is a point to involve Rudy more next year. But I think that should mean more touches, not really a lot more minutes.
by Norsktroll on May 8, 2009 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
It seems real premature.
Rudy seems pretty happy as far as I can tell. They have crazy substitutions in Europe anyway, so his minutes probably seem normal. Josh Childress is only playing like 20 minutes a game right now in Greece.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on May 9, 2009 7:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Games under Fiba rules are only 40 minutes, but in his first 82 games season Rudy shouldn’t have expected many more minutes so I guess he was fairly happy with his time even if he surely likes to have a major role.
by Norsktroll on May 9, 2009 8:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly...
Time isn’t the issue, it’s role. With anyone but Sergio running the offense his primary role is kick out 3-shooter. I believe he wants and is capable of much more.
Rudy!!!!!
by blazergrl on May 9, 2009 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Patrick Patterson told Kentucky Friday he has withdrawn
his name from the NBA draft and will return to the Wildcats for his junior season.
Click here for details.
by spencerbutte on May 9, 2009 1:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look into your magic ball...
and tell me who we are going to draft this year.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on May 9, 2009 4:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
who is this year's Batum?
I must know.
draft dejuan blair
by Cablinasian on May 9, 2009 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really have no idea but that sounds reasonable.
by GreatOden'sRaven on May 11, 2009 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beaubois seems to be the more likely prospect
De Colo is playing SG/combo guard in the same club.
"Officiating has to be a science, not an art" - Rick Carlisle
by Norsktroll on May 11, 2009 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember Rodrique tried out for us last year
and was impressive but decided to go back.. maybe one of our 4 second rounders would be useful and stash him overseas
by GreatOden'sRaven on May 11, 2009 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You guys need Linas Kleiza
In exchange for Channing Frye.
by Tagyou'reIt on May 8, 2009 4:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Another 3/4 forward tweener?
(Historical side note: We had Kleiza, and traded him and a second rounder for Jarrett Jack on draft day)
by Norsktroll on May 8, 2009 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Take him back
My point is, we in Denver would LOVE Channing Frye and his inside/outside abilities.
by Tagyou'reIt on May 8, 2009 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He likely will hit the open market since Portland can use the cap space of his QO. Then go and make him an offer.
by Norsktroll on May 8, 2009 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm
In a heartbeat if I were in charge. Then again if I were in charge I would have never nixed the Artest/Sacramento deal because they wanted Kleiza.
by Tagyou'reIt on May 8, 2009 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Denver Nuggets should draft DaJuan Summers to replace Linas Kleiza.
by AK1984 on May 8, 2009 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Melo doesnt need anymore Baltimore influences, thankyou.
by Tagyou'reIt on May 8, 2009 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, the Denver Nuggets could instead target someone like Derrick Brown, ...
Damion James, Tyler Smith, or Sam Young with the 34th pick. Indeed, there should be numerous satisfactory combo forwards available early on in the second round of the 2009 NBA Draft. At any rate, though, Linas Kleiza is likely on his way out of the Mile High City.
by AK1984 on May 8, 2009 8:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather have Hedo
And surprisingly, that could happen if Otis Smith is Otis Smith this summer
by dprodigy19 on May 8, 2009 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear Tayshuan Prince is on the table.
Sign Kidd for cheap and trade Outlaw and Blake for Prince.
Poor Man's GM @ jacemannba.blogspot.com
by Jaceman on May 8, 2009 4:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Throw in Sergio and a pick or something
Poor Man's GM @ jacemannba.blogspot.com
by Jaceman on May 8, 2009 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kidd
wants to stay in Dallas I read somewhere, and his contract demands were kind of crazy if you believe the rumors.
I would be happy if we got Prince, he is a great player. I just believe our PG spot is in more need of an upgrade don’t you? If you had to choose between getting Prince and keeping Blake, or getting Hinrich and keeping web/Batum wouldn’t you get Hinrich?
by usmcr3049 on May 8, 2009 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's close.
I think it depends on how much they want for Prince. I imagine they would want Rudy, Pryzbilla, or even Aldridge to make the deal work.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on May 9, 2009 7:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
which
would kill the deal from my end.
by usmcr3049 on May 9, 2009 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would give up Rudy or Pryzbilla.
But not both, and definitely not Aldridge.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on May 9, 2009 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Liking it
this sounds pretty good, honestly i don’t want powe or joe smith, and none of the other guys look that group look great. but getting hinrich would be awesome, everything i saw in the playoffs told me he is the point we need. dujan blair would be cool, and since we’re getting some experience from hinrich its ok to get another rookie. gotta get alonzo mourning to coach oden, i recently saw him on pros vs joes
by StocktonNEP on May 8, 2009 4:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
who would you like to get
to back up LMA in that case? Any other ideas?
by usmcr3049 on May 8, 2009 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm joking, but I sort of wish Danny Fortson was still around
though it’s entirely possible Nate had his fill of both Fortson and Reggie Evans, a similar old school pro
ignacio
by ignacio on May 8, 2009 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well put.
Extra points for encouraging input. Shows you’ll back up what you claim, or be willing to change your mind.
"If you're going to be crazy, you have to get paid for it or else you're going to be locked up."
by GonzoFan on May 8, 2009 4:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Curious
how did you get this on the front page of BE?
Brandon Roy, 'nuff said.
by johnv59 on May 8, 2009 5:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He put alot of thought work into it,
admitted the likely hood of errors, asked for dissenting opinions, and encouraged discussion. Oh yeah, that Dave guy liked it too.
I am no longer able to participate in this discussion due to a moderators request...
by TrentEdwardsHoF2018
by Screen Name on May 8, 2009 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just in case you've been enjoying life AFK for a few days,
Dave’s been promoting higher level fanposts that encourage civil conversation or offer some new insight to the front page, kinda like a reward for being good students or something. I’ve only seen two so far, but I assume that we’ll see more.
I am no longer able to participate in this discussion due to a moderators request...
by TrentEdwardsHoF2018
by Screen Name on May 8, 2009 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's a good idea
for the slow off season
Brandon Roy, 'nuff said.
by johnv59 on May 8, 2009 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh, you were joking
I dialed that number and it’s disconnected… :-)
Brandon Roy, 'nuff said.
by johnv59 on May 8, 2009 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah sorry, it’s in the process of being re-routed to 1-800-CASH-BEN
by Ben. on May 9, 2009 1:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that getting Hinrich sounds good,
but why wouldn’t Chicago want a 5 or 4 instead of Outlaw?
by blzrfan1938 on May 8, 2009 5:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
They may very well want that.
I felt with Noah’s growth during the playoffs, (who knew once you got that kid to the pressure of the playoffs he would flip a switch?) and Thomas’s semi-breakout year, they also have Brad Miller, those three are pretty good. But you make a very good point, maybe Frye could be useful here as well, maybe not.
I chose Outlaw to help give them offensive fire power off the bench, as I believe they will lose Gordon to FA this summer. But they do have other small forwards on the team that can score. But none that really excell at getting their own shot as well as Travis.
by usmcr3049 on May 8, 2009 10:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they lose Gordon..
does that make Bayless more attractive to the Bulls? Would the Blazers prefer dealing Bayless/Outlaw, do you think?
It's = It Is
Its = Belongs to It
by 12sharks on May 9, 2009 4:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt it.
Hinrich is a three year solution and then things get dicey again. I wouldn’t feel comfortable not having a PG prospect with big upside waiting in the wings.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on May 9, 2009 7:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not a huge bayless fan
he might be the answer or he might not, if it took bayless/outlaw to get Hinrich I would still do it. Hinrich is only 28, so he is more than just a 3 year plan. With his game, I think he could play very well until about 33, which would be 5 years. But I think the team would still need to get that young pg to develop.
If you believe what the Bulls fan above said, the bulls really want to resign Gordon no matter the cost, and Blake is more attractive to them because they can wavie him and his non-guaranteed deal after the trade to free up cap space.
by usmcr3049 on May 9, 2009 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just pointed this out above
But it’s not “no matter the cost.” Right now there’s simply not room to make a reasonable offer without going into the luxury tax.
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
by wjb1492 on May 9, 2009 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm
Ok so picking this apart, I think the likelyhood of us picking up NY’s #8 overall pick is slim to none. Even if we did, there’s no point in drafting a back-up/3rd string power forward that high. If we get a pick that high we have the luxury of taking a high-ceiling, high risk player.
I don’t think we need Powe, Joe Smith, Freeland, and DaJuan Blair. Nate like a tight playing rotation and I’d rather have Freeland stay overseas another year if we add all of those guys. Maybe adding Joe Smith and Freeland would be the best option, and use our #24 pick either in trade with Chicago for Kirk or somewhere else for a point.
by sPresley on May 8, 2009 6:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

by 