Is B-Roy Really A Top 5 NBA Player?
by hotsauce710 on May 31, 2009 3:32 PM PDT
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Print| PLAYER NAME, TEAM NAME | GP | MPG | PTS | FGM-FGA | FG% | 3PM-3PA | 3P% | FTM-FTA | FT% | |
| 1 | Dwyane Wade , MIA | 79 | 38.6 | 30.2 | 10.8-22.0 | .491 | 1.1-3.5 | .317 | 7.5-9.8 | .765 |
| 2 | LeBron James , CLE | 81 | 37.7 | 28.4 | 9.7-19.9 | .489 | 1.6-4.7 | .344 | 7.3-9.4 | .780 |
| 3 | Kobe Bryant , LAL | 82 | 36.1 | 26.8 | 9.8-20.9 | .467 | 1.4-4.1 | .351 | 5.9-6.9 | .856 |
| 4 | Dirk Nowitzki , DAL | 81 | 37.7 | 25.9 | 9.6-20.0 | .479 | .8-2.1 | .359 | 6.0-6.7 | .890 |
| 5 | Danny Granger , IND | 67 | 36.2 | 25.8 | 8.5-19.1 | .447 | 2.7-6.7 | .404 | 6.0-6.9 | .878 |
| 6 | Kevin Durant , OKC | 74 | 39.0 | 25.3 | 8.9-18.8 | .476 | 1.3-3.1 | .422 | 6.1-7.1 | .863 |
| 7 | Kevin Martin , SAC | 51 | 38.2 | 24.6 | 6.7-15.9 | .420 | 2.3-5.4 | .415 | 9.0-10.3 | .867 |
| 8 | Al Jefferson , MIN | 50 | 36.7 | 23.1 | 9.7-19.5 | .497 | .0-.1 | .000 | 3.7-5.0 | .738 |
| 9 | Chris Paul , NOH | 78 | 38.5 | 22.8 | 8.1-16.1 | .503 | .8-2.3 | .364 | 5.8-6.7 | .868 |
| 10 | Carmelo Anthony , DEN | 66 | 34.5 | 22.8 | 8.1-18.3 | .443 | 1.0-2.6 | .371 | 5.6-7.1 | .793 |
| 11 | Chris Bosh , TOR | 77 | 38.0 | 22.7 | 8.0-16.4 | .487 | .2-.6 | .245 | 6.5-8.0 | .817 |
| 12 | Brandon Roy , POR | 78 | 37.2 | 22.6 | 8.1-16.9 | .480 | 1.1-2.8 | .377 | 5.3-6.5 | .824 |
| 13 | Antawn Jamison , WAS | 81 | 38.2 | 22.2 | 8.3-17.8 | .468 | 1.4-3.9 | .351 | 4.2-5.6 | .754 |
| 14 | Tony Parker , SAS | 72 | 34.1 | 22.0 | 8.9-17.5 | .506 | .3-.9 | .292 | 3.9-5.0 | .782 |
| 15 | Amar'e Stoudemire , PHX | 53 | 36.8 | 21.4 | 7.6-14.1 | .539 | .1-.1 | .429 | 6.1-7.3 | .835 |
Here are the top scorers in the NBA. As you can see B.Roy is number twelve. This year he achieved an NBA second team award. My top would have to be:
1. (tie) Kobe and lebron
3. D.Wade
4. Chris Paul
5. Carmelo/ Granger
Do you think B.Roy cracks the NBA top five? Is so why? And if not, why and will he ever?
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I would put B Roy above Granger, and maybe Carmelo, too
…and I would put some other guys ahead of your #5 slot. Off the top of my head, Duncan, Dirk, KG, Pierce, Howard.
by Hawthorne Wingo on May 31, 2009 3:44 PM PDT reply actions
So....
i guessing he’s still not in your top 5.
I think he is top 10 for sure, not top 5
I would agree with your top 5 except replacing Carmelo/Granger with Howard
"Sometimes I catch myself watching him and he's shooting floaters all-net. And just to watch how he's talking trash. I loved it. I loved every minute of it. Rudy's a competitor." - Brandon Roy
Top 5 hopefully in his future, I am not counting that out
"Sometimes I catch myself watching him and he's shooting floaters all-net. And just to watch how he's talking trash. I loved it. I loved every minute of it. Rudy's a competitor." - Brandon Roy
by Trail Ducker on May 31, 2009 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Top 10
LeBron
Kobe
Wade
Howard
CP3
Duncan
B-Roy
D-Will
Nowitzki
Garnett
by as11osu on May 31, 2009 3:48 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Garnett is gonna drop out of that list
after this offseason.
he’ll still be a great player, but he’s just played too many games.
Yellow Mamba FTW!
hell yes
scoring is THE most overrated metric out there, and to add in Roy is 7th in pace adjusted PPG.
Base stats are very misleading as to get NY stats to Portland stats, you have to divide by about 2.
I put Roy at about 5th
1. Lebron
2. Wade
3. Kobe (getting old)
4. Paul (very close though)
5. Roy
I put it that way based on not only individual stats, but team winning %, overall game stats (R and A), clutchness, and the abliity to take a team on their backs and will them to a win.
Potential must also be added and that is why I discount Duncan, Dirk, Pierce, KG and Nash as Roy compares to them statistically, but he will improve and the others have maxed out, granted at a high level, but they have nowhere to go but down.
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
But
Potenial isnt taken into account when you talk about the best player RIGHT NOW.
Then how is Granger on your list?
Just ’cause he shoots a lot?
Granted, he is good, but without some ‘potential’ rating he is nowhere close to Dirk Nowitski for example.
true
Granger is also on the worst team of all the players, so he can just chuck up shots when he wants. I wouldn’t mind him doing that for the Blazers, but I think he’s a little overrated on this list.
Yellow Mamba FTW!
yeah but
Roy is equal to them at least stat wise but he has more potential making him the better player
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
You cant go by just stats
A good player on a bad team may have comparable stats to a great player on a good team. Broy is definately a top 5 wing & prob a top 10 or 12 overall
You're right in that you can't go by stats
but then you drop roy to 10 or 12?
Roy provides leadership, emotional intelligence, and an excellent understanding of the game. The shoots him right up over better stated players missing those qualities.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
To me 10-12 is pretty good for a third year pro.
Most of the guy’s I have above him have been in the league longer.
Wow. No big guys on your list?
It’s a list of very offensive-minded shooting guards (and the obligatory SF at the top).
No big guys or defensive presences in your top 5?
Yeah
I’d argue I’d want Howard on that list.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
I can agree with this
thanks for bringing up pace.
Toss in leadership, emotional intelligence, and so on… Roy is a guy that I take over a LOT of other players. Good leaders are tough to find. Hardworking, talented, smart, leaders who motivate the rest of the team… they’re worth building a team around.
Would you want Kobe or Roy to lead your team? Kobe ticks his team off, Roy helps bring them together. That is why i’ll take Roy over Kobe if looking at the best player, and I’d do it now.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
Roy > Melo/Granger...no question, and I don't think he's too far behind Wade and Chris Paul.
If there was an “NBA Draft” today and we’re building new teams, I’d see the order going like this:
1. Lebron
2. Kobe
3. CP3
4. Howard
5. Wade
6. Roy
7. Billups
8. Dirk
You and I will share all that we know--so close your eyes and just let yourself go.
9. Duncan 10. KG
if you want a top 10.
You and I will share all that we know--so close your eyes and just let yourself go.
yeh, depends how he recovers. that's why i was only going to do 8.
You and I will share all that we know--so close your eyes and just let yourself go.
Only the same team would draft KG, Kobe and Duncan
and they’d have to win it this year or next. Otherwise, it’d be folly to build around people that are about to breakdown, are breaking down.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
If that draft didn't take into account player age...
Right?
Or maybe you hold Kobe/Billups/Dirk in very high regard?
I assumed you're trying to win a ring in the next 2 or 3 years.
If you’re talking just straight up for the long haul, then yah Kobe falls a lot. Here’s if you’re looking to build a team that can contend long term:
1. Lebron
2. CP3
3. Howard
4. Roy
5. Wade
6. Durant
7. D Rose
8. D Williams
9. Granger
10. Tie—Amare/Bosh (maybe Oden?)
You and I will share all that we know--so close your eyes and just let yourself go.
Dude..
Oden isnt even near the top ten
by hotsauce710 on May 31, 2009 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
one eastern conference GM said this year that he would trade rose for oden straight up
You and I will share all that we know--so close your eyes and just let yourself go.
actually it might have even been two or three
You and I will share all that we know--so close your eyes and just let yourself go.
Honestly,
advanced stats really didn’t like Rose this year. Oden came out pretty well by most metrics. His rookie season was even arguably top 10 this season even taking into account minutes played (10th in Win Shares, 5th in aggregate wins if you used statistical +/-, near the top in PER, etc). It’s just really obvious Rose has a ton of potential and room for improvement. He has a game that could be similar to Wade or Roy or some other ball-dominant (and likely scoring oriented IMO) guard. Then again, Oden obviously has some pretty good potential as well.
While it’s likely the minority opinion, I’d still take Oden over Rose, though I’m obviously heavily biased.
Ok, I get it.
Thanks.
I guess it is because I’m used to drafts being about the next ten years that I looked at it that way.
i think everyone would have a different strategy. some teams would try to win NOW and would go with kobe. others would be in for the long haul and might go with durant or someone.
it’d be fun to do. maybe we should do a BE draft and then simulate the next 10 years on NBA Live or something and see who wins the most rings.
You and I will share all that we know--so close your eyes and just let yourself go.
I'd be the idiot who takes Roy #1 over lebron lol
Best of Senator Clay Davis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI4-QyAzY64&feature=related
Where is the D Wade love?
I guess injuries are certainly a concern, but he is on LBJ and Kobe’s level in my opinion. Wade just doesn’t have nearly the supporting cast of either of the puppets. Here is my top 5:
1) LBJ
2) Wade
3) Howard
4) CP3
5) Kobe
RUDY > MJ
Sorry wasn't Wade like finals MVP or something?
Don’t get me wrong BRoy is awesome & still growing but come on
Howard is number two for sure
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
yeh, i might have to agree with you.
centers like howard are rare.
You and I will share all that we know--so close your eyes and just let yourself go.
I'd say he'd be in the fight for number two.
Personally, he is in the top five for sure. His FTs this last series sealed it. If Lebron could make them and Howard couldn’t the series would have been flipped. Hack-a-Lebron might be tried some time the way he is going.
It's just easier to build around Cs and PGs than around SFs
I’m not sure why, but it’s been easier for Orlando to fill supporting cast than it has for CLE to fill C. And, we just got a measure of LBJ V Howard.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
Once again, I pretty much agree with you,
Although I like Orlando’s support better than Cleveland’s. Still, I had predicted an Orlando win over at SS&R because what Howard does is more valuable than what James does.
Mo Williams: all-star = inappropriate joke to staylost
Kobe is too Old to be taken 2 in a draft
1. Lebron
2. Wade
3. Howard
4. CP3
5. Kobe
6. Roy
7. BOsh
8. Carmelo
9. Granger
10. Duncan
"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein
by Garden of ODEN on May 31, 2009 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Big men aversion?
Bradon Roy is good precisely because he doesn’t go for things like scoring titles. His efficiency/time on the court is what makes him so amazing. I don’t think pure scoring volume is highly pertinent when it comes to ‘best players’ (not that it is entirely irrelevent). His pure scoring prowess only comes out in the 4th quarter where you could easily make an argument for him being the best clutch player in the NBA for his age (maybe ever).
Of note, the players above are his seniors (CP maybe only in NBA experience).
Brandon Roy will most likely be one of the top five wished for players by teams, but may never crack the 1st team because he cares more about team success than personal accolades.
Still, I think it depends on the success of the Blazers. He hits the top five by consensus if he is still the leader and the Blazers start knocking down championships. It worked for Dwayne ‘The Flashy Turnover’ Wade…
Why are there no big men on your list?
Personally, Roy is easily a top five for me, though.
to me it seems that the way the NBA is situated
big men cannot will their teams to a win in the final seconds, you need a 6’6-68 wing player who can get into the lane, create and/or hit a jumpshot in the final seconds. Look at the Hedo/Bron battle, but very similar games in terms of style.
You establish the post game and pond the other team into submission first and then hope that the game is out of hand by the 4th as it is harder for bigmen to be clutch and that takes away IMO.
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
Except for that the better the big man is, by your argument, the more likely you will
pound the other team into submission. Those wins count just as much as the close ones. (even more if you listen to stats people)
Not that I disagree that you could reasonably come up with a best top five in the league without one big man right at the moment. Seven guys crosses the line though for me.
true
or it could be that there is
A) an abundance of high quality wing players/high quality centers ratio
and
B) a dearth of wing players that know how to play with a dominating big man, ie entry passing, RE-entry passing if the 2x comes and the big gets better position
I see Howard as a moderately skilled big man who is good on the boards and D and gets the majority of his points of lobs and O boards with little to no ability to create his own shot. and I would put him 7th maybe 6th.
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
Sure, it could be a lot of things. But to discount big men because they can only
pound the other team into submission seems strange.
I think my biggest knock on Howard as of right now
is that he cannot create his own shot. If you look back at Shaq in his prime, you got him the ball on the low post and he either finished with that hook or hit a cutter in the lane, creating for someone else.
As of now Dwight does not have that, see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enuJrnd-1b8&eurl=http://7secondsormess.blogspot.com/&feature=player_embedded
Going against Z and Varajao Dwight should dominate, but against a good D’er in Perkins and the team D that the C’s employ he did not do so well averaging 16 and 13. Granted good players beat up against weaker players, but great players bring it all the time.
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
Out of the 2006 draft class, Adam Morrison or J.J. Redick will win a title before him. Rondo already has.
Lets face it: Roy is just not that good.
by Norsktroll on May 31, 2009 3:56 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
isn't that just disgusting?
Adam Morrison is in LA and J.J. Redick is in Orlando. They contribute basically nothing (J.J. does a little I suppose) yet one of them will be wearing a ring by November.
"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"
Yeah good point
In the vaunted 03’ Class Darko was the first one with a ring.
Wade came in second and
Lebron, Carmelo, Bosh don’t even have a ring yet
"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein
by Garden of ODEN on May 31, 2009 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions
I should have read further
"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein
by Garden of ODEN on May 31, 2009 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions
No. It's just historical irony that he will be at best the third player from his class to win a title
Just like I wouldn’t take Darko Milicic over LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Carmelo Anthony and Chris Bosh although he beat the rest of the 2003 class to a title in Detroit.
I’d rather judge by scoring efficiency and defense than raw scoring numbers.
LeBron
Paul
Wade
Kobe
Howard
Duncan
Roy
proud hinrichsheeple
I disagree
I might put Wade ahead of him, but certainly not Kobe or Howard. Howard’s play in the playoffs has been great— if he keeps it up all next season, he might go ahead of Paul. For now, though, Paul is statistically quite a bit ahead of Kobe or Howard.
Statistically I don't see how you can make an honest comparison between
Howard and Paul.
This season, based on the atrociousness of Paul and the greatness of Howard in these playoffs, swings it for now at least.
And he should be rated worse for it, right?
Just because Oden had a bad knee doesn’t mean he was better than Bynum the season before this last one, right?
But it may have no bearing on his future “best players” rating.
Well, he was incredible all year, until he hurt his knee and was on a heavy painkiller. So why take the small set of data over the whole season of excellence?
proud hinrichsheeple
by Cablinasian on May 31, 2009 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions
That's how the playoffs works
Howard earned it as much as Paul stunk it up. I’d rather have Howard. His offense and defense allow a team to play in a whole different way. As SVG shows us on a nearly daily basis in these playoffs. It’d be a lot easier to build your winner aroudn Howard than around Paul. I’d also say I’d prefer picking from mid talent level point guards than mid talent level centers.
Here is the meat.
The only problem with this, is that now you need to qualify the player’s support. Someone like Lebron is doing much better than Kobe in terms of efficiency here (past the apparant difference) because his offense is nearly dimensionless.
LeBron, Paul, and Wade are extra superior here, in my mind.
Thanks Dave.
Because “thems is fightin’ words”. Having seen Norsktroll’s past comments I realized he was kidding…but it took me a sec. Just goes to show how much we all love our B-Roy. I say Roy is top ten, sixth at best, eighth at worst. Also, in my opinion, the author is putting a bit too much emphasis on scoring. Granger is great…but um, certainly not top five material.
Other stats last regular season (with all their limitations)
PER #7 (Hollinger): LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant, Brandon Roy
Value Added #6 (Hollinger): LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, Kobe Bryant, Brandon Roy
On/Off Net Points #14 (82games): LeBron James, Chris Paul, Lamar Odom, Dwyane Wade, Kobe Bryant, Jason Kidd, Yao Ming, Ray Allen, Kevin Garnett, Delonte West, Rashard Lewis, LaMarcus Aldrige (!), Andre Iguodala, Brandon Roy
Roland Rating #5 (82games): LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, Brandon Roy
Wins Produced #11 overall, #2 SGs (rounded): Chris Paul 29, LeBron James 27, Dwight Howard 25, Dwyane Wade 21, Jason Kidd 21, Rajon Rondo 18, Troy Murphy 17, Pau Gasol 17, David Lee 16, Tim Duncan 16, Brandon Roy 14.5, Kobe Bryant 14, Marcus Camby 14
http://www.wagesofwins.com/Top152009.html
Bill Simmons made up MVP ratings #7 :) LeBron James, Chris Paul, Dwyane Wade, Kobe Bryant, Paul Pierce (homer, homer), Dwight Howard, Brandon Roy
I would say top 10 definitely, top 5 is ambitious.
by Norsktroll on May 31, 2009 4:21 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Toughest to guard (Artest ratrings) Brandon Roy .........................
Brandon Roy just destroyed everything in his path. There's your rational analysis -- Dave
Also: COMCAST SUCKS!
lol Granger? Are you serious?
Oden+Roy+Aldridge+Rudy+Bayless=Dynasty. Believe
Whoa!
First I wouldn’t put Wade first. Second there is no way Nowitski, Durant, Bosh, Granger, Martin, or Jefferson are better than Roy.
All you have to do is ask yourself would any of the GM’s of these players take Roy over them. Here’s the conversation of KP on phone tosay SAC. "Yea I was thinking that maybe I was wrong about BRoy . I was thinking maybe trading him for Martin what do you think? (GM on other end of phone biting finger to keep from screaming out his goood fortune. After listening to KP …Said GM clears his throat with hand over phone then calmly say.. well Lets see what I can do to help you out KP!
Third there is no way Howard and Yao aren’t high on this list. Here is My top five.
Lebron
Howard
Kobe
Wade
Roy
Why is Roy so High? Because He IS that Freaking GOOD!
by Odenrising on May 31, 2009 4:43 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Lol...Granger
Phil Jackson was quoted as saying he would take D Howard before Lebron. There’s a lot of intelligence behind that logic. Pretty much every modern team that has won a title has had a dominant big man/presence. Garnett, Duncan, Shaq (on 2 teams), Ben Wallace, Olajwon, David Robinson, Dennis Rodman (the case for the bulls…the one potential exception for the rule), and now D Howard. I think I would give some serious thought to taking him first as well.
Phil Jackson says a lot of things.
After all, he was OK with keeping Kobe and trading Shaq. Still, I think there is a good argument to be made that Howard should be higher. I would probably take him over everyone except Lebron. Certainly you could make a very convincing case that he’s more valuable than Paul or Wade.
The thing is, Chris Paul will never have a huge impact on the defensive end. He might generate a couple steals a game, but that’s not the same as entirely shutting down the middle and clogging the lane. Howard is going to have a positive impact on the game almost 100% of the time while Paul is really only making major contributions about half the time.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on May 31, 2009 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Roy is on a short list of the best players in the game.
How long is the list? I don’t know. But scoring average is not the only or even the main criterion that I think is important. Who else in the NBA can be described in these words?
- Leader of the team on and off the court
- Nearly unstoppable scorer
- Extremely efficient scorer
- Unselfish player with an ability to distribute the ball
- Has a nose for the ball, good rebounder
- Can make a critical defensive play when needed
- Extremely smart, hardly ever has a mental lapse
- Works hard on his game and brings it every time
- Reliable, hardly ever has a bad game
- Capable of nearly single-handedly winning a game
- Clutch
I probably forgot some things, too.
"Just kidding"
My question about Roy is:
How much better will he get?
His game has to still be improving, and I think he was a lot better this year than last year.
Yellow Mamba FTW!
Yes & look for even better next year
It might not be a huge jump statwise but I believe the playoff experience will be huge!
I don’t like listing top player regardless of position unless you are trying to play the redraft game.
Top guards:
1. Wade (slightly over Paul due to defense)
2. Paul (slightly over Kobe due to playmaking)
3. Kobe
4. Roy
5. DWilliams
Besides Howard and James, I can’t think of another non-guard over Roy. Duncan and Dirk are really close; Melo isn’t horrible fall behind.
"Slum dunk? You just go to the rim, and crush.. crush the ball in the rim."
- Nic Batum
This could be titled "Is Roy a Top 5 Scorer" not player.
And the answer is no. Not because he is incapable, but because he is on a team where he doesn’t have to. And he recognizes that. He realizes that he needs his teammates to be involved to win in the big ppicture and he enables them to do so. That alone puts him in my top four. Along with the ignored stats (rebounds, assists), and the fact that the Blazers won more games coming from behind than anybody. That is all Roy, whether he is making the shots himself or instilling the confidence in his teammates. That, more than anything, is “Jordanesque”. As long as he is on the court, everyone involved believes the Blazers have a chance to win – regardless of the score, statistics, or otherwise. The only other players I feel that way about are K*be, Wade and LeBron. That is why he is definitely top five (four in my book).
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."
i dont know if granger makes the top 5
1. LeBron
2. Wade
3.kobe
4. howard
5. paul
bayless leaves over my dead body
sign mike bibby
Top 10, not top 5...yet
Roy hasn’t accomplished enough over an extended period of time to be considered top 5. Of course no one argues that Lebron, Kobe and Wade are above Brandon, but do you really think Brandon surpasses:
Paul Pierce (NBA champion and finals MVP)
Tim Duncan (multiple championships)
Dwight Howard (NBA finals and possibly champion, Olympic Gold Medal)
Carmelo Anthony (Western Conference finals and Olympic Gold)
Chris Paul (Olympic Gold)
Dirk Nowitzki (League MVP and NBA Finals)
Roy is definately in the conversation but until he takes himself and/or his team to greater heights, I don’t think he is top 5. My order:
1. Kobe
2. Lebron
3. Wade
4. Howard
5. Pierce
6. Paul
7. Anthony
8. Roy
9. Duncan
10. Nowitzki
Top 4 are pretty well set in my mind, but 5 – 10 are open to debate so with a great season next year Brandon could reach #5.
I don't think Melo or Pierce are better than Roy.
I don’t really like using awards and trophies in the argument of who’s better. Greater and better are not the same.
Roy had a slightly better season offensively than prime Paul Pierce had ever had. PP is a better defender, but the PP that could be considered better than Roy is a thing of the past.
Here are some advanced stats of Roy this year vs. Melo’s career highs.
Roy(09) vs. Melo(career highs)
PER: 24.0 vs. 22.1
TS%: 57.3% vs. 56.8%
eFG% 52.2 vs. 52.1
Going by this it shows that Roy was a better scorer this year than Melo has ever been. When you account for how much better Roy makes his team, leadership, his cool head, passing, taking care of the ball and all that other stuff we love about Roy it’s difficult to put Melo over Roy. The belief that Melo is some kind of super scorer just comes from the fact that he gets a lot of points. He can easily create mistmatches, very easily infact. But when it comes down to execution he does it no better than Roy. To his credit Melo was great in the clutch when it came to scoring, but so was Roy.
There are more stats that show Roy is better, but since the argument for Melo is usually his scoring I’m just going by a few.
pierce coludnt do crap without Garnett or Allen
He gets to much credit, for me it would go:
Kobe
Lebron
Wade
Roy
Howard
Any good perimiter defender
Needs an good post defender. I have a lot of respect for Paul Pierce, staying with the team that originally drafted him. Even through the bad years & bad decisions made by front office. You give Pierce, Aldridge his whole career? He would have looked much better, but he had to do a lot on his own.
I don’t really know how you can even rate an “overall” player when talking about wings & posts. Take away Gasol/Bynum/Odom(certain games) and Bryant isn’t going to win all those games by himself(He needed Shaq to win championships). Look what happened to LeBron. His Cavaliers were exploited by a premier interior presence. Wade hasn’t done any post season winning since Shaq left.
In summary, these lists mean nothing.
Offseason:
Mike Conley Jr
Reggie Evans
Othello Hunter
(D)Kevin Seraphin
(D)Rodrigue Beaubois
by TheGreatDane17 on May 31, 2009 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Probably not top 5...yet.
1. Lebron
2. Kobe
3. Paul
4. Howard
5. Wade
6. Pierce
7. Roy
8. Duncan
9.Dirk
10. D Will
Players that are better than Roy for sure:
LeBron
Kobe
Wade
Howard
Paul
Probably better for the time being:
Dirk
Duncan
You can plug Roy anywhere you want after that.
Oden+Roy+Aldridge+Rudy+Bayless=Dynasty. Believe
Hey, has anyone pointed out Granger not being a top 5 player yet?
"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"
I kid because I love
I think Roy could become a top 5 player, but he’ll never be a top 5 player in popular opinion. His game isn’t flashy or high scoring enough to be considered by the masses and even the sports writers as top 5.
"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"
Hey thats true
Granger really isn’t in the top 5 talent wise.
Someone should point this out.
I will Granger isn’t in the top 5 talent wise.
"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein
by Garden of ODEN on May 31, 2009 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions
No
Based on stats, Brandon doesn’t belong in the top 5 and is a tough sell for to 10. Let’s be honest, Brandon needs to really work on his defensive game to be mentioned in the same breath as Kobe, Paul, and Wade. Those guys are all stellar defenders. Brandon is a serviceable defender right now. He’ll get better.
In terms of leadership and value to the team, he is a top 10 player.
"Sasha? That's a sissy name." -Mike Rice
Paul ≠ Stellar Defender
but he does have a larger defensive impact that Roy
"Slum dunk? You just go to the rim, and crush.. crush the ball in the rim."
- Nic Batum
number of steals per game isn’t enough for me to rate a stellar defender. Take a look at the opponent production and effective field goal % when he is on/off the court. Doesn’t exactly scream top rated defender.
He is a great stealer; he just doesn’t have remotely the same overall impact on the other teams production as the other elite.
"Slum dunk? You just go to the rim, and crush.. crush the ball in the rim."
- Nic Batum
by idoltime on Jun 1, 2009 3:25 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Uh, okay?
He’s in the top 20 in the entire NBA in overall defensive rating and 8th in the entire NBA in Defensive Win Shares. Combine that with the steals, I’d say that’s pretty stellar.
"Respect everyone, fear no one." -TP
On opponent production (here) he is ranked around 56.
It doesn’t look much better here
I’ll say that he is a better defender than just a ball stealer, but even your noted stats wouldn’t make him All defense team in my opinion.
"Slum dunk? You just go to the rim, and crush.. crush the ball in the rim."
- Nic Batum
Wade isn't a stellar defender, neither is Paul
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jun 1, 2009 8:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh, you're basing it on steals and blocks
We’re gonna disagree
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jun 1, 2009 8:14 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
CP3?
What does the “3” stand for in CP3?
Sorry, I couldn’t figure it out with a simple search.
thanks.
His jersey number.
Oden+Roy+Aldridge+Rudy+Bayless=Dynasty. Believe
No
Chris Paul
Dwyane Wade
Lebron James
Kobe Bryant
Dwight Howard
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
I'd say top 10, not top 5 yet his D isn't top 5.
if brandon roy played for toronto he'd be brandon waaaaah
We are biased because Roy is OUR guy.
But realistically, he’s a top 10 player, not yet a top 5.
Didn’t the league already announce this?
Hmm... You trust the Stern??
But ya, I agree. If you add in potential (youth) than Roy is top five though in my opinion, fan or not.
I wouldn't put him at top 5 right now (ask me a few years later)
But he is definitely top 5 in his position right now IMO (Dwyane Wade, Kobe Bryant, Brandon Roy, Danny Granger, Kevin Durant)
"...Lies, damned lies, and statistics."
The answer is yes.
Maybe some don’t see it now, but I do. B-roy is the most valuable player Portland has ever had.
Brandon has not yet shown the leadership
to be in the top 5. Someone said it above, for Brandon to be a top 5 player, the Blazers are going to have to start winning championships or at least having deep runs in the playoffs.
A player like D Wade can put up numbers to justify top 5 status. I think Brandon will have to do it with leadership. Leadership that we will see in the toughness and togetherness of this team.
In a couple of years we’ll know.
B-roy should be at least 5
he has proved to be a more effective player than chris paul by out playin him in the all star game and he has put portland back on the map proving to be valueable i think if these other “big names” are so good they would have records like lebron james and the cavs look at chris bosh’s record, wade’s, paul’s, and harrington.
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