Prince please
by rip city coming alive on May 3, 2009 10:11 PM PDT
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PrintWould Tayshaun Prince not be perfect for the Blazers? He provides the Blazers with everything that we need: a lockdown defender, outside shooting, experience. Not to mention he is only 29 years old and is an Olympian. The Pistons are reportedly willing to get rid of anyone on their roster, including Prince. If we traded them Jeryd Bayless, Travis Outlaw, our trade exception, plus our first round picks for the next two years. It works contract wise as well. They get cheap, young talent, we get the missing piece. Prince has 3 years left on his contract. Batum would have 3 years to gain playoff experience. And he would still only be 23 or 24. It's perfect. Someone call KP!!
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Bayless, Outlaw, the exception, and 2 1st rounders???
Respectfully disagree. Given we won’t draft high in the forseeable future, but we are talking about 4 first round picks and a valuable exception, for a guy who I am not so sure we need as Batum (hopefully) develops into a mirror image of.
No thanks.
you are talking about a near all-star level player for a role player, a prospect (who I am not high at all on) and two late first round picks
I consider that a steal.
Actually, Prince is superstar in his prime...
there is no way Detroit gives him up for a guy who just choked in the playoffs, a rookie who hasn’t done much and end of the first round picks.
That’s like saying we should give up Roy for a good 6th man, a rookie who averaged 5 minutes a game and the 25th pick.
superstar in his prime?
that might be a little too much. It’s not like the conversations are like Lebron, D Wade, Kobe, and Tayshaun Prince. He is a star, and underrated at that, but superstar might be too much
by rip city coming alive on May 3, 2009 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I guess that depends on what your definition is...
but to say the least, he is in the elite group of small forwards….
LeBron is all by himself, but after that you have guys like Durant, Prince, Pierce, Melo, and Granger.
Make no mistake about it, Prince is a stud. And I am sure Dumars doesn’t underrate him.
talk about being set up to fail
This year they handed him the ball, asked him to be “point forward”, asked him to lead the team, help develop their young players, and oh yeah deal with Alan Iverson. No wonder he’s looked like he’s dealing with a massive headache all year. Poor Tayshaun.
Why Dumars traded for Allen Iverson
is beyond me? Maybe he was hoping they’d miss the playoffs and get a high lottery pick. He couldn’t even accomplish that.
it wasn't a bad move
they weren’t going anywhere with their old roster, they got to rent AI to see if he would work out and now that huge contract is coming off the books and the Pistons have a ton of money to work with.
"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"
going no where
because ECF six years running is weak. Call it what it is. They over estimated stuckey’s ability going into his soph year and it has forced their hand into blowing up the team.
going no where meaning
more ECF appearances (maybe) wasn’t enough and it’s a better idea to make the move for Iverson and to clear cap space in the following year than to just ride a fading team back to the lottery.
"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"
i think getting rid of big shot is a bad move no matter what
that guy is a champ, they could of got rid of other big contracts for a better deal, i bet they would of loved to see a zebo, wallace reunion down in la la land
he is
positioning himself to be in the running for a big name in 2010. Iverson makes like 20 million but is expiring so he may get Bron or Wade or Bosh
Please do not feed the B-Rex
by BRoyTheNatural on May 3, 2009 11:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Tayshaun Prince choked too, and for the third straight season, in an elimination series in the playoffs
- 08/09 against Cleveland — 3.8ppg in 32.3 minutes a night, while shooting just 25.9% from the field.
- 07/08 against Boston — 9.8ppg in 40 minutes playing time, while shooting just 32.4% from the field
- 06/07 against Cleveland — 8.7ppg in 44 minutes a night, while shooting only 24.2% from the field.
He was hurt this year, apparently
but had a difficult series
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on May 4, 2009 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Tayshaun is not a "Superstar"
Tayshaun is a super player, but he really has no star qualities. Prince is not a focal point in his teams offense, he has always been third fiddle. Prince is a super defender and all-around player, but he has never been the team leader or “face” of his franchise. He is great player, but no way are we calling him a “Superstar”
Ummm, I think Prince is around his prime, but at 30 he is gonna start arching down sometime soon.
by Portland Dynasty on May 4, 2009 1:28 AM PDT up reply actions
speaking of choking in the playoffs
take a look at Prince’s stats…
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on May 4, 2009 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Though there is one problem.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but you can’t trade two straight first round draft picks, correct?
I got curious and looked it up...
Also, league rules prohibit a team from trading future first-round picks in consecutive years. This rule was created partially as a reaction to the practices of the Cleveland Cavaliers in the early 1980s. Ted Stepien, who owned the team from 1980 to 1983, made a series of trades for players of questionable value that cost the team several years of first-round picks. The trades nearly destroyed the franchise; the NBA pressured Stepien into selling out, and in order to get a solid local owner (Gordon Gund), the league had to sweeten the deal by giving the Cavaliers several future bonus draft picks.
Note, however, that this rule only requires each team to have a first-round pick, not necessarily their pick.
by Timmay! on May 3, 2009 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
hmm, good research.
I vaguely recall the rule but I had no clue why it was there. Interesting.
acta est fabula plaudite -- Thanks for a great season.
tom, give me a break
in that other thread, we happened to be discussing PFs. Believe me, I’m fully aware LMA is almost certainly going nowhere, and the list of players I’d trade him for is not very large. I just don’t view him as untradeable.
break given...
… in the form of a sweep to the leg which broke your ankle!
LMA is untradeable in my book… what GM in the league would get rid of a 24 year old with his skill? You wouldn’t trade Bosh at 26, nor would you trade LMA at 24.
by Portland Dynasty on May 4, 2009 1:32 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
disagree...
Portland would be getting ripped off. Tayshaun Prince is a great player and I like him a ton. I would like him even more if he were in Portland. But to give up TWO 1st Rounders plus Jerryd Bayless on top of Travis when we could part with only Blake and Frye to get Hinrich to Portland… they wouldn’t be morgaging the future on one player… especially when I believe our SF position is set with Martell, Batum and Rudy Fernandez. I’d MUCH MUCH MUCH rather upgrade the PG than get a top-notch SF. Portland has just way too much young talent at the SF to clear them out now for Tayshaun Prince.
Besides, I like Jerryd Bayless as a prospect way too much. I’d love to see him get a shot to run the 2nd unit for all of next season.
by Portland Dynasty on May 4, 2009 12:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Chicago looks at Hinrich's contract as strapping....
When you look at the mess they have waiting for them with Ben Gordon proving that Chicago needs him, Hinrich is the odd man out. For them to have the depth needed and some flexibility, They can get a replacement solid backup point guard (Blake) and add a role player with upside in the front court (Frye)… If that deal were to go down, I think Portland would be throwing in a 2nd Rounder or two probably… If Chicago got two draft picks and two role players out of the deal and really didn’t down grade their “back-up” role that much… Also remember that Derrick Rose is the face of that franchise and his minutes will continue to go up, meaning that money tied into his backup is wasted. By trading Hinrich for a bundle of players like this Chicago is maximizing that money.
by Portland Dynasty on May 4, 2009 1:36 AM PDT up reply actions
It'll take more than that, unfortunately
Hinrich’s not going to get giftwrapped for us now that he played so well down the stretch and in the playoffs. He has value. Not sure what it would take, but Steve and Channing would not get it done. Steve and Travis and a draft pick, maybe.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
yeah huh he is too
gonna be gift-wrapped to us, that is. In black and red ribbon!
by Portland Dynasty on May 4, 2009 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions
The Detroit Pistons wouldn't trade Tayshaun Prince to the Portland Trail Blazers unless LaMarcus ...
Aldridge was included in the deal. That, therefore, makes trade talk between Detroit and Portland mighty impractical for both parties.
-1
Detroit definitely would trade Portland for less than LMA. No doubt, those boys in D-town are in a tight spot financially. They might even take like 4 2nd rounders and Shavlik if the CBA would allow it. Mark my words, Detroit is blowing it up this off-season.
by Portland Dynasty on May 4, 2009 1:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Nope, I guaranteed the Detroit Pistons are retooling -- rather than rebuilding -- this off-season.
In all likelihood, Carlos Boozer and/or Chris Bosh will suit up Motown next season. I used “and/or” in that last sentence due to the unlikely, yet plausible scenario wherein the Pistons make a draft day trade for Bosh (e.g., http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/4/30/860558/gameday-open-thread-pre-game#15068116) and later sign Boozer via free agency.
that doesn't seem like a good front court tandem
there is a lot of offense there, good rebounding, but not much else. It seems like they could get a more complementary player to go along side one or the other for the same price as getting both.
And do you have all your previous comments bookmarked for easy reference or something?
"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"
Yeah, I'd have the same concerns with a frontline duo of Chris Bosh and Carlos Boozer.
It’s defense that’d be the main issue, too, for Bosh is so-so and Boozer is poor on that end of the court.
Anyway, I don’t bookmark my comments. I just browse through the SB Nation archives if I’ve got to find what I said about a given topic at an earlier time.
No way
The Pistons want to be players in either 2009 or 2010, and thanks to Rip’s insane extension, the only way that can happen is if they move either Hamilton or Prince. Since Rip is going to be incredibly hard to move, it is most likely that Prince will go.
Of course, that’s not to say Dumars will give him away, but he is (and will be) gettable for less than one of the Blazers’ big 3 (Brandon, Greg, LMA).
My guess? Outlaw, Blake or Bayless, and either Frye or Martell.
sure it is a lot
It is a lot, but you are also getting a lot. The picks aren’t a big deal, because the last thing we need is more young, raw talent. Prince gives us everything Outlaw provides plus more. And although I like Bayless, he can’t play full time point, and there is no way he can crack the rotation at shooting guard
by rip city coming alive on May 3, 2009 10:28 PM PDT reply actions
you beat me to it snake
I agree….the answer is a big fat no…which is why Dumars laughs in our face and hangs up the phone.
Don’t know if you’re relatively new to this forum rip city coming alive, but the only other player we’ve concocted more trade scenarios for than Prince is maybe Devin Harris. I love the way you’re thinking though…we would love to have Prince. The price you have the Blazers paying though doesn’t look to be nearly enough to get a player of Prince’s caliber.
maybe we could throw in Webster
we would have surpluss of sf in Prince, batum, and web. He could play the 2 or the 3.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=dafzjc
but im not even sure we would want to do that.
we would then need another pg. we could renounce blake/or not/ trade him, and pick up up one of the free agents, ….or make a run for rubio with our cap space/ picks/ exeption/ sergio or som combination.
Blake-Rubio
Roy-rudy
Prince-Batum
Aldridge-…freeland/Blair/vet
Oden -Pryz
…sounds crazy and is
by raging WebTed on May 3, 2009 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Webster's value is insanely low
For how good/young he is. We’d be selling him for pennies on the dollar to anyone right now, which is why we shouldn’t trade him. I would trade Outlaw + Bayless + this year’s 24 and 55 for Prince provided we can swing another PG project in FA or something. I think Prince would be great for Batum’s development, even if it meant Batum more or less rode the bench for a couple seasons.
Things happen for a reason they say, but I say there's a reason things happen.
What Rubio isn't starting?
"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein
by Garden of ODEN on May 4, 2009 4:34 AM PDT up reply actions
wow we end up with Rubio and Blair
C*mcast sucks!
by Blazermaniac77 on May 4, 2009 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
don't underrate the economy
The Pistons were one of the teams trying hardest to get rid of big contracts this deadline. I don’t think any of us can grasp what kinds of things losing millions of dollars will make you do. And although Batum is one of my favorite young Blazers, he is pretty raw. His offense was non-existent for large parts of the season. Look at the Lakers or Cavs, any one of the their starting five can score.
by rip city coming alive on May 3, 2009 10:37 PM PDT reply actions
They will let Wallace and Iverson go. That saves them enough money.
However it’s rumored they want to get either Boozer or Bosh this offseason. If they could get Bosh, they would likely be willing to trade Prince in the deal for him.
Other than New York.
NY has been rumored to be after Bosh and LeBron as the backbone of their lineup.
Well, Nate's popular in NY, and plays a position that CB or LBJ wouldn't play
So if management likes him, I can’t imagine they’d want to trade him.
But at the same time, rumor is that anyone in NY is available if the price is right.
I’d never want Nate in Portland though. Ugh. And I’m saying that as a UW grad.
Big sleepers for Bosh
All three Texas teams.
Houston- Will have the cap space if they don’t give RonRon or McGrady a killer deal (and they won’t)
San Antonio- Will have the cap space, though it would hamstring them with the rest of the roster
Dallas- It’s an outside shot, but if Dirk leaves to play with Nash (in NYC or wherever), they could make it work, more likely as a leveraged S+T.
Bosh is a Texas boy, so none of the three should be ignored.
To be precise, they stand at $39 million in salaries
That’s without Sheed, AI, McDyess and Herrmann while everyone else has at least 1 year left on his contract (e.g. Rip, Prince for 2). Maxiell, Stuckey and Afflalo are locked in long term. That leaves almost 20 million in wiggle room depending on where exactly the salary cap will be, which should be enough to start retooling that roster.
I think Batum will score, the dudes young still
C*mcast sucks!
by Blazermaniac77 on May 4, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
That is not who I would try to trade for Prince
What would we do with our PG and backup PF positions? It would be hard to improve at either or both doing this. We could improve one of them through free agency, but it would be hard to do both. Also how would Batum or Webster even play? One of them would get next to no minutes. Sure, we improve over Outlaw, but that is a massive logjam at SF. If we do something like this package, I think it should be for a high quality PG and then we could sign a backup PF in FA. That would give us a potent and clear 2 deep lineup rotation.
with the economy in Detroit
I guess it could be possible for the Pistons to be in for a few tough years. They would have to be in pretty bad shape to sell Tayshaun, though. Bayless and Travis would be an absolute steal.
draft dejuan blair
sergio is underrated
Sergio’s pure passing skills are the best on the team, by far. He could potentially become our pg of the future. The issues are turnovers (his erratic playing time didn’t help that) and outside shooting. Not to mention his connection with Rudy is something fans on other teams can only dream about. He can play our pg backup for now. And although backup pf is an issue, that’s nothing four 2nd round picks can’t solve and a couple open roster spots can’t solve!
by rip city coming alive on May 3, 2009 10:48 PM PDT reply actions
Prince is a champ and has more playoff experiance then our entire roster
we could probably get him for outlaw, draft picks and cash
did you see what they gave up billups for?
there broke, thry don’t need a pg because they got Stucky and Bynum, you is going to get an extension
unless Dumars
wants to open up even more cap space for 2010 and make a run at lebron
"Smile! You're on a poster!!" - Mike Rice
they are going Lebron 2010
or another star. Did you see their team chemistry in the playoffs? They weren’t even helping each other up. If I was upper management, I would be getting rid of everything except the water boy. It’s like they are strangers on the court playing together
by rip city coming alive on May 3, 2009 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Water boy?
He had their water at 43.2 degrees during the playoffs. The Pistons book clearly says that water he to be between 42.8 and 43.1. Fire that little turd.
If we got him what would we have to pay him,
and how does that work with the rest of the roster and the cap?
I love how we fans undervalue other team's players and
overvalue our own.
Prince is a superstar and still in his prime! Trout is a nice bench player and Bayless is rookie who didn’t play much his first season. Even if we include two first round picks, which figure to be somewhere in the late 20’s, there is no way Detriot does this.
I’m sure there are other team’s fans saying the same thing about Roy. It’s funny. We all do it.
the big reason Detroit doesn't make a move like this
is because they already have a very good combo guard in stuckey, and an adequate backup at PG in Bynum. Outlaw wouldn’t be an upgrade over Prince in any area (outside of vertical leap), and what good is a couple of million dollars and late first round picks (which are guaranteed contracts).
"Smile! You're on a poster!!" - Mike Rice
i agree
but a backcourt of bayless and stuckey is pretty good for a young rebuilding team to start around. and outlaw is half the money of prince.
by rip city coming alive on May 3, 2009 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Tayshaun is overrated here, not underrated
Fans regularly overrate their own players.
However, guys that are always discussed as “underrated” (like Ben Wallace a few years back, or Battier) tend to slowly get overrated over time. That’s happened with Prince in a big way.
As poster explains below, many fans have evidently come to drastically overrate Tayshaun. He’s a good role player. Far from a superstar or a borderline all-star, though, and not nearly on the same level as Pierce, Granger, etc (as somebody suggested above).
He played worse than Trout in the playoffs this year, it’s just that nobody outside of Detroit or Cleveland watched him do it.
His defensive stats were downright ugly this year, and he’s ageing and seems to have lost a step. He gets paid a ton.
Not sure if AK’s right that the Pistons would demand LMA in exchange for Tayshaun, but if so, that’s laughable.
No way in a million years KP would give up two first round picks PLUS Bayless PLUS Trout for Prince. That’s way too much.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
Still good
Prince is still a good defender and he played the whole playoff injured. He is still only 29
by rip city coming alive on May 4, 2009 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions
I, too, agree that Tayshaun Prince is overrated by many people, but I still think that Joe Dumars ...
would drive a hard bargain and demand LaMarcus Aldridge in return for him. That’s why I think all of this Prince talk is impractical on more than one level.
Before we think about Prince
we at least need to see how good Martell is going to be coming back. If he is alright and produces some good numbers we can keep him and roll. If we take Prince he comes with a high salary (10.3 next season and 11.1 the year after) and that takes away a lot of flexibility to get a pg and backup pf which we probably need more at this point. Also that would make resigning Roy, Aldridge, and Oden all at the same time an issue.
I would love to have him but at this point it doesn’t seem all that realistic with all of those factors.
Please do not feed the B-Rex
for those of you who don't know
Prince and Rudy were late first round picks, so they are valuable, especially to a team like the Pistons.
by rip city coming alive on May 3, 2009 11:05 PM PDT reply actions
A lot of stars come out of the latter portion of the first round...
that being said, the odds of even drafting starter go down substantially in the latter half of the first round…so the odds aren’t very good that you’re going to get another Prince in that spot.
Prince is suddenly an overrated player here IMO.
For those saying Outlaw flat out sucked in the playoffs, Prince was arguably worse this year.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DET/2009.html
Prince had a 27.8 TS% in this year’s playoffs versus Outlaw’s 37.9 TS%. Prince also had over twice the turnover rate. He also registered worse defensive playoff stats as well. Overall, that is a -0.4 playoff PER versus Outlaw’s already lousy 6.4 PER.
http://basketballvalue.com/teamplayers.php?team=DET&year=2008-2009
Prince also wasn’t exactly a no-stats all-star this season with a negative plus-minus for both oncourt-offcourt and adjusted plus-minus. Prince was a -3.87 in adjusted plus-minus for the season compared with Outlaw’s -1.85.
Obviously, this was Prince’s worst season in years. However, I don’t think the Blazers need to sell the farm for a guy who just had an arguably worse year than Outlaw for both the regular season and playoffs. I’m guessing most of it had to do with a lot of caring just like with the rest of that Pistons team, but I’d still say it’s a bit worrisome.
by poster on May 3, 2009 11:19 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Decent in what way?
How was what Prince did in the players decent? He tanked like everyone else.
Well it was also
The Pistons worst season in years so that is not all that surprising to me really
Please do not feed the B-Rex
by BRoyTheNatural on May 3, 2009 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions
who else was there on that team?
Iverson flat out quit
Rasheed has barely been a shadow of his former self and pretty much just hoists up jumpers
Stuckey had a surge mid season but clearly wasn’t ready to be a main guy
McDyess is a nice roll player but that’s it
It was on prince to do pretty much everything, offense, defense, leadership etc. He’s a great player in a 3rd/4th option roll and being a defensive stopper.
"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"
oh, I forgot about hamilton
who was battling a nagging injury and is past his prime
"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"
regardless on who, I think this is the year to make a move
because everyone is going to be shopping their roster for cap room and will be gunshy on free agents, due to the blowout sale in 2010
A trade exception can't be used in that manner nor can you trade consecutive first-round draft picks.
Regardless, Joe Dumars would hang up his phone and laugh at this complete tripe. He’s not an idiot, folks.
he managed to OK the billups-iverson trade.
anything can happen.
"There are a few teams you have to watch out for in the fourth quarter."
"Yeah, but Portland definitely is not one of them."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters at the end of the third quarter with the Hornets leading 74-59. Portland later ends up winning 97-89.
"They don't mind him shooting that shot at all. Rudy Fernandez is not that great of a 3pt shooter."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters right after a Rudy Fernandez missed 3pter. Rudy Fernandez finished the game with three 3pters on six attempts.
by Tofu Anonymous on May 3, 2009 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions
bad moves are made all the time
and kp is on the better end every time, you could say that McHale would never be dumb enough to put the randy foye, broy trade, or the Oj Mayo, kevin love and mike miller deal. Or the radman for shannon brown and morrison trade. Or the jason kidd and dallas package with devon harris. But guess what, those trades happened. And Detroit is a ship that is sinking. I dont care what you say about how getting AI wasn’t a bad trade, but it was horrible. Trade a guy that has been you staple for years, for one of the biggest cancers in the history of the nba
Wow, let's break this apart into simple pieces.
1. The Jason Kidd for Devin Harris trade has actually worked out well for both teams. Kidd gives the Dallas Mavericks a veteran leader who can run the point and defend shooting guards — since Jose Barea and Jason Terry are better playing off the ball next to a bigger guy in the backcourt — while the New Jersey Nets got a wonderful building block in Harris.
2. Kevin Love’s outstanding rebounding prowess and O.J. Mayo’s lazy defense — which is even more exposed by him playing alongside another lazy wing defender, Rudy Gay, with the Memphis Grizzlies — makes that trade impossible to judge at this point. The one thing that Kevin McHale didn’t take into account, though, is that a frontline of Al Jefferson and Love is crap on defense. As a result, I wouldn’t be shocked if the Timberwolves basketball operations department — which employs Jim Stack, Fred Hoiberg, and Rob Babcock — contemplates for a long time about whether or not to draft the second-coming of Dikembe Mutombo, Hasheem Thabeet, who I’m somewhat wary of myself.
3. The Vladimir Radmanovic for Adam Morrison and Shannon Brown was a transaction made by the Charlotte Bobcats to solidify its backup small forward position, whole the Los Angeles Lakers did it to clear future salary obligations for the 2010-2011 season and add some depth to its off guard position to push Jordan Farmar.
4. The Detroit Pistons traded Chauncey Billups — even though I thought that Richard Hamilton was the one who should’ve been dealt elsewhere — to the Denver Nuggets for Allen Iverson to clear future salary obligations after this season to go after either Carlos Boozer in free agency this off-season or Chris Bosh next off-season. By acquiring Iverson, moreover, the Pistons were able to con their doltish fan base into believing the team still had a shot at winning this season, which led to increased ticket and merchandise sales in cash-strapped Motown.
Well, that’s that.
yep, your counter argument totally sold me
the depth and breadth of your basketball knowledge astounds me.
"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"
Number 1 If you think that Dallas got a good deal, the only games you wached in the last 1.5 years is the spurs series
1 Jason Kidd Devon Harris
Devon Harris worked out for the Nets, that’s for sure. I never siad that it was these trades were a disaster for any team, but I thought the goal for a NBA team was to win a championship. Dallas lost a lot in this trade and paid out even more. It didn’t help there playoffs woes last year in fact they fell on their face. Sure they beat a crippled spurs, but they would have gone down to any team in the west this year Kidd came in, took away minutes from Terry, who is their most athletic player. Now Kidd’s contract is up and guess what they need to get this year, oh yeah, a young point guard who is fast, can spread the ball and find thier shooters. Sounds a lot like Devon Harris. Isn’t he in New jersey or something. Oh yeah if Dallas loses in 5 to Denver, Dallas is getting scrapped. Sounds like that one worked out for Mark Cuban
Okay, let's go through it.
1. Jason Kidd is a point guard and Jason Terry is a shooting guard, so their respective amount of playing time has nothing to do with each other. For Terry, he’s entrenched in the sixth man role for the Dallas Mavericks.
As it is, the problem with the Mavericks is who the team has started at shooting guard. Throughout the season, mediocre youngsters like Antoine Wright and Gerald Green were given the reigns.
Ultimately, though, Rick Carlisle settled on Jose Barea as the other backcourt starter, for he can defend point guards — which relieves pressure from Kidd — and is an all-around versatile backcourt player on offense.
2. Jason Kidd will most likely re-sign with the Mavericks to something like a one-year, $10 million contract during the off-season. Mark Cuban is openly pleased with Kidd’s performance during the past 18 months, too, while the Cal legend would be dumb to leave a great situation.
3. The Mavericks will certainly retool in the off-season, but anyone who thinks that the roster should be “scrapped” by Cuban and Donnie Nelson is out of their mind.
Heck, here’s what I’d try to do if I was is Nelson’s shoes.
1. Draft an offensive-minded swingman in the first round.
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Chase-Budinger-502/
2. Prior to 7/1/2009, trade Matt Carroll to the Milwaukee Bucks for Dan Gadzuric.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=d6834j
3. Prior to 7/1/2009, trade Erick Dampier, Jerry Stackhouse, and $3 million in cash considerations to the Phoenix Suns for Shaquille O’Neal.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cofwst
4. Tender restricted free-agent Ryan Hollins to a one-year, $1,215,726 qualfying offer (i.e., 125% of his previous annual salary).
5. Re-sign Jason Kidd to a one-year, $10 million contract.
6. Re-sign Brandon Bass to a five-year deal with his Early Bird rights.
7. Sign Raymond Felton to a five-year deal with the mid-level exception.
8. Release Shawne Williams, who’s officially a bust.
9. Release Devean George, who’s finished as a player.
10. Sign a few experienced veterans (e.g., Sean Marks, Damon Jones, & Kevin Ollie) to one-year, minimum-level contracts.
C: Shaquille O’Neal
C: Dan Gadzuric
C: Ryan Hollins
PF: Dirk Nowitzki
PF: Brandon Bass
PF: Sean Marks
SF: Josh Howard
SF: Chase Budinger
SF: Antoine Wright
SG: Raymond Felton
SG: Jason Terry
SG: Damon Jones
PG: Jason Kidd
PG: Jose Barea
PG: Kevin Ollie
Unless O’Neal falls apart or injuries are an issue, that’d probably be a 55-win team.
cuban himself gave threats of scraping roster
Jason Terry plays both guard positions. Espn has him listed as point guard. His MPG went down since the Kidd trade.
Jason Terry averaged 33.7 minutes per game this season, which is 2.2 ...
more minutes per game than he received last season. Terry’s playing time this season is almost equal to his career average, too, which is 33.9 minutes per game.
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jason_terry/career_stats.html
Whenever Mark Cuban makes threats like that, he’s doing it in jest. I’ll believe it when I see it.
Oh, and by the way, ESPN is wrong about Jason Terry. Terry is technically a combo guard, although he rarely plays the point on the Mavericks with Jason Kidd running the show.
In 2006-2007, Devin Harris was an up-and-coming third-year player ...
who averaged 26.0 points per game.
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/devin_harris/career_stats.html
Even if Harris wasn’t traded for Jason Kidd, Jason Terry’s minutes would’ve gone down by now.
You need to use some critical thinking skills, okay.
He really is not a point guard anymore
He was much more when he was the backup, Devin Harris was running the point and they still had no Barea. Now he is in a Manu Ginobili role, only handling the ball on fast breaks. Other than that, he is an off-guard standing in the corner waiting for a three like Steve Blake. Occasionally even playing small forward as weird as that sounds for a guy his size when the Mavs went with a super small three guard lineup while Josh Howard was injured.
Yeah, Jason Terry got away with playing small forward for short ...
stretches since Jason Kidd is big enough to defend small forwards and Jose Barea’s scrappy play provides him with the ability to body up somewhat effectively against bigger guards.
LMAO
Yes, Phoenix, the team that gives up picks to save $ is going to give up Shaq’s expiring deal for a guy who makes $13,075,000 in 2010-2011.
That’s totally reasonable.
Erick Dampier's salary is non-guaranteed for the 2010-2011 season, unless ...
he meets some certain playing time conditions.
http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/notes/mavericks.htm
If Robert Sarver isn’t an idiot, then he’ll make sure that whoever is coaching the Phoenix Suns next season doesn’t let Dampier’s contract become guaranteed for 2010-2011.
Kevin Love for OJ mayo and Mike Miller, just saying that it was a good trade for ole Kevin does not make it true
Mike Miller is a prime candidate for the “I can make open shots” club in the nba right now. So what did the Timberwolves miss out on this year, a guard that can create his own shots. Kevin Love brings nothing but rebounding, that’s it. He doesn’t force that that second defender to come off big al, he doesn’t help at all on D and now if they do draft a center, which is the all knowing AK1984’s theory, Kev is going to be on the bench. All the while Memphis has got a great core in Gasol, Conley, Gay and OJ MAYO to build around. And when the L train took over, he had those guys playing team ball and team D, and they we’re looking really good the last half quarter of the season. Now they can get another player out of the draft and put together a great looking puzzle
Mike Miller can not only create his own shots, but he's able to successfully play ...
as a point forward in any system. In fact, the supposed issue with Miller this season was that he too often deferred to his teammates — which I don’t necessarily consider to be a problem — rather than be a marksman from downtown. That’s not Miller’s fault, though, since playing on the wing with a backcourt of Randy Foye and Sebastian Telfair would be a poor situation for anyone.
Anyway, I agree that pairing Al Jefferson and Kevin Love together is a horrible fit. Kevin McHale was an idiot for passing on Brook Lopez, who would’ve been the perfect match alongside Al Jefferson. The Minnesota Timberwolves, meanwhile, must live with that mistake.
My suggestion, therefore, is for the T’wolves front office to select Hasheem Thabeet and use a three-man frontline rotation of him, Jefferson, and Love — with Craig Smith getting spot minutes here and there — in the meantime. Now, if I ran the T’wolves, I’d try to con Jordan into parting ways with Emeka Okafor in return for Jefferson; yet, in light of Brown’s love of defense in Charlotte, I’m sure he would squash such a proposal.
Alas, it’s true that the T’wolves are backed into a corner with Jefferson and Love.
They're not backed into a corner
Love and Jefferson are both incredibly young and can get much better on the defensive end. I’m not saying they’ll be gangbusters on that side, but they can become serviceable, especially if they get some guys on the perimeter that can defend better than their current crop.
If they get a defensive C, it HAS to be a guy that is some sort of offensive threat, because they can’t afford to have the other team’s D collapse on the PF (whichever of the two it is).
A team that makes some sense for the T-Wolves to talk with is the Clippers. If the T-Wolves can get a PG (Rubio) in the draft, a deal like Mike Miller, Telfair, and Smith for Marcus Camby, filler and Kevin’s friend DeAndre Jordan would make a ton of sense for both teams as long as Kaman will be back full strength.
And by the way, any GM that traded Al Jefferson for Emeka Okafor would be put in a mental institution. In Jefferson’s last full season, he averaged 21 and 11.2 as a 23 year old. The boards # is .1 less than Emeka’s career high and the points total is 1.5 times Okafor’s best season. Plus, Okafor is more than two years older, has a worse contract, and would be playing out of position as a full-time C.
Al Jefferson is a complete and utter joke on defense, while Emeka Okafor ...
is outstanding with regards to both man-to-man and weakside help defense. When it comes to defensive metrics, I’m a big fan of net points allowed per 100 possessions and net eFG% allowed — both on-court/off-court — since it tells a story.
Oh, and by the way, the gab between Okafor and Jefferson defensively is bigger than the gap between Jefferson and Okafor offensively.
Marcus Camby would be a totally pointless frontline addition for the Minnesota Timberwolves, for his rebounding would be negated by Al Jefferson and Kevin Love. Plus, the one thing that Camby would bring to the table (i.e., shot blocking via weakside defense) isn’t enough to make an impact.
Undoubtedly, the T’wolves need someone who’s an outstanding one-on-one low-post defender to anchor the paint. Unfortunately for the T’wolves, however, the team blew its chance to have that by passing on Brook Lopez during the 2008 NBA Draft.
Brook Lopez is an outstanding man to man defender?
I’ll agree completely that passing on him was a major mistake in hindsight, but to call Brook anything more than a decent one-on-one low post guy is a gross overstatement.
As for Okafor vs. Jefferson, the difference in offense greatly overshadow’s Okafor’s defensive advantage because of the difficulty of finding an offensive talent like Jefferson. You know how many guys went 20/10 in 2007-2008? Three. Antawn Jamison (who is obviously on the downside of his career now), Carlos Boozer, and Al Jefferson. No Dirk, no KG, no Amare.
The problem with Emeka is that every top-level team needs a go-to low post scorer and there is no reasonable person who would argue that Emeka is that guy. As such, any team that has him needs to get that from the other position, and those guys (which includes Al) are expensive and intensely hard to come by. Emeka is great, but his value is nowhere near Jefferson assuming both are healthy.
Radman in a Larry Brown System, really??
I did for the most part like the moves this year by MJ, but this one wasn’t the best idea. Sure they were able to get rid of Adam Morrison, a mistake in the first place, but they lost Shannon Brown. A big athletic point guard/shooting guard. I know they are putting thier wagon behind DJ, but he is undersized and not quite fast enough. If you have ever watched a Larry Brown teams, you would know that he likes big guards that can penetrate and play great D, ie Shannon Brown. Radman was a guy that never took anything serious, including D. Now the Lakers got two things they needed, no more Vladimir and a successor to Derick Fisher while the Bobcats got the lakers dirty laundry.
While I wouldn't've traded for Vladimir Radmanovic, he truly did a decent job as ...
a backup forward behind Boris Diaw and Gerald Wallace to end the season. Yet, of all the trades that Michael Jordan, Rod Higgins, and Larry Brown made this past season, the only one I was baffled by was the Matt Carroll and Ryan Hollins for DeSagana Diop swap. It’s as if Jordan and Higgins didn’t learn from their asinine mistake of trading for Nazr Mohammed in 2007.
And last if you think detroit came up on this trade, then you deseverd to have your team taken away from you
your to dumb to appreciate them. Were you the same sonic fans that would talk trash in the Rose Garden and are now buying Brandon Roy jerseys? In the words of Shaq, “I despise frontrunners” Yeah they cleared up some cap room by moving Big shot, but they also tore the heart out of that team. Anyone that can get sheed to behave himself has got smething going for him, and Billups does. As soon as AI got to detroit, he showed why George Carl was dancing on trade day. He skipped practice and demanded the ball. He made everyone else on the roster, which was full of allstars, underachieve. Then when he took over the SG spot, rip went to the bench and it only got worse. In fact they played th best post-billups when AI went out with back/ego problems. Sure they cleared up cap space, but they could of done the same with sheed or prince or Rip. Might as well traded Rip since they treated him like a has been when AI got there. Now Detroit went from one or two moves away from being on top again to team biting their tongue until the 2010 off season. Yeah great job Joe dumars, by the way you will be showing up with the thinnest wallet to a million dollar auction. And if it backfires, which it will, they will have a roster full of role players trying to figure out who to pass to.
Joe Dumars was correct to shake up the team this season in preperation to retool ...
during this upcoming off-season. The mistake made by Dumars, however, was parting ways with Chauncey Billups rather than Richard Hamilton — which I mentioned at the time — and it was futher compounded since “Rip” had just signed to an extension.
Admittedly, however, back in September I wrote that I didn’t expect Dumars to make a splash this season.
“Also, I highly doubt that the Detroit Pistons will part with their core of Antonio McDyess, Rasheed Wallace, Tayshaun Prince, Richard Hamilton, and Chauncey Billups. That sort of big-time shake-up isn’t Joe Dumars modus operandi. Besides, the Pistons already have a slew of youngsters in Jason Maxiell, Amir Johnson, Aaron Afflalo, and Rodney Stuckey, with veteran Kwame Brown also being relatively young for a veteran role player.
The one thing that the Pistons need is a backup swingman who can stick it from long range, which is why Dumars should’ve drafted Chris Douglas-Roberts instead of reaching for Walter Sharpe. Hell, another year of Walter Herrmann in that role isn’t the answer; additionally, Sharpe’s skill set is superfluous, as he’s pretty much a crappy hybrid of two current Pistons, Maxiell and Johnson, who’ll certainly be ahead of him on the depth chart."
http://www.blazersedge.com/2008/9/8/609655/the-portland-trail-blazers#8597417
I was wrong on that account.
The Detroit Pistons move was only bad for this season, however, with the ...
pending cap space being a major boon for the organization. Basically, the trade gets an incomplete on the Pistons side of it until we see what Joe Dumars can do this summer. Thus, this could still end up being a win-win deal.
Either way, though, we can agree that the Denver Nuggets came out on top.
I just don't like the startegy of holding on tight for 2010
I don’t see how losing big shot is a win, he is a guy that in 2010 could hold superstar egos clued together. We all have seen Curry cannot
I bet they would bite on....
Travis Outlaw
Channing Frye (sign-n-trade)
Sergio Rodriguez
plus a 2nd Rounder or two
for Tayshaun Prince. That would work out financially for the CBA, and Portland wouldn’t be mortgaging their future by giving up Bayless and two first rounders. However, by putting up Outlaw, Frye and Sergio, that is pretty much all the trade value on the roster that most would want to move, so the only available options AFTER Tayshaun being added and minus the cap space from the sign and trade would be $4-$5M plus the trade exception. Could Portland still sign a quality veteran upgrade PG over Blake and a banger PF? Possibly. There is a lot more to consider than just ONE move or the first move.
by Portland Dynasty on May 4, 2009 12:04 AM PDT reply actions
mortgaging the future?
Bayless and 2 1st rounders? It would take a lot more than that to mortgage the future, considering we are talking about a potential 8 or 9 man core that would be together for 5 or 6 years.
"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"
Okay, Channing Frye won't be signed-and-traded for a variety of reason. Once again, I must explain it.
“By extending the one-year qualifying offer to Frye, it’s possible that he’ll just sign the thing and cost the Portland Trail Blazers $4,264,761 next season. In addition, if Frye is extended the qualifying offer, his cap hold will be 300% that of his previous season’s salary (i.e., $3,163,769 X 3 = $9,491,307). Lastly, Frye would be a base-year compensation player for trade purposes — as well as have an automatic no-trade clause in his deal — if he signed the qualifying offer, since he’d receive a raise of more than 20%.
Indeed, Frye will be non-tendered by the Trail Blazers and wished well in his future endeavors."
http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/5/1/862262/player-s-most-likely-traded-this#15157308
Let’s hope that finally settles this topic.
Has Blazer management already made up its mind about Frye?
"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"
The Portland Trail Blazers have until 6/30/2009 to decide whether or not to extend a one-year ...
$4,264,761 qualifying offer to Channing Frye or non-tender him, which’ll consequently make him an unrestricted free-agent. Since sign-and-trade deals are unallowed to take place until after the July moratorium — although trades with players under contract can occur between the season’s end and the 7/1/2009 — Frye can’t be included in any deals.
ah, I was confused by your line
“frye will be non tendered by the Blazers and wished well”
it seemed like a decision had already been made. I agree though, that’s quite a bit of money to pay a guy who, while a great person, doesn’t fit the team.
"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"
We won't keep frye
He is a poor mans version of aldridge and he never played. Bye bye frye
by rip city coming alive on May 4, 2009 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Portland can sign a different deal to Channing
and bypass the tender.
by Portland Dynasty on May 4, 2009 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions
I like Tayshaun Prince and think he’d be a good piece of the puzzle for the Blazers, but I don’t think he’s a piece that puts Portland over the top by his lonesome. If the team acquired him, I’d want to see more additions too (like a Kirk Hinrich).
Very good defender at the three, good rebounder, and a good complementary offensive player. He’d fill a lot of glue-guy type holes for the Blazers. He’d be a nice fit.
Question
Who do you guys think would be a better sf than prince who is plausible to get?
by rip city coming alive on May 4, 2009 10:46 AM PDT reply actions
Calling a Prince acquisition "plausible" sounds like a stretch
Despite his playoff performance, his stock in the league is high. Even if Detroit is willing to deal for him, I’d guess they’ll get better offers than what we want to give up.
If we seriously want to shop for a SF (and I’m not sure we do, with Martell coming back), Artest seems like he would do a lot of what Prince does, and he would cost less, financially and in terms of what we’d have to give up to get him.
2 hot 2 stop it
By plausible I meant
Someone within the realm of possibility (I.e not Lebron) prince is on the trading block. Martell seems questionable to me. Rarely does a broken foot take that long to heal. so this injury must be bad and he might not ever be as athletic as he once was
by rip city coming alive on May 4, 2009 12:23 PM PDT reply actions
Not a fan of Bayless
But he and TO is giving up to much. I’d give them Travis tho.
"Joel Przybilla... all the rest is potential, Joel is fact." -ken
How is it too much
You are upgrading at sf. And with Roy and rudy playing some pg, a new pg doesn’t become a big of an issue as upgrading at sf
by rip city coming alive on May 4, 2009 1:15 PM PDT reply actions
I think martell is already an upgrade
the only other guy in the league I would want, well i Should say the one we could get, is Gerald Wallace
Batum is already better than Prince
by most measures. Look it up.
Bad call....
no make that a “Short-Bus” call.
by Portland Dynasty on May 4, 2009 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions
classy!
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on May 4, 2009 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Likewise Batum is already better than Webster
Look up the stats.
State don't mean everything
You’re a blazer fan you should know that. Look at Joel. To compare batum to prince is ridiculous. He may be one day but he won’t be soon. One is a relatively unknown rook the other is a gold medalist
by rip city coming alive on May 4, 2009 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Also
How are Batums stats near Princes?
by rip city coming alive on May 4, 2009 2:41 PM PDT reply actions
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