Hmm… 42% from three, some of the best point guard defense in the league, loves to mentor younger players, allows Brandon to dominate the ball when he needs to…

SIGN ME UP.

Deep ball shooter, basically better at everything he does than Blake, especially defense. Moderately bigger and stronger, knows the game, experienced but not really “aging”.

I say yes.

1. yes

2. my left….uh…. pinkie toe.

It’s said that Hinrich excels at mentoring younger players, loves going over tape, etc… He and Bayless would probably become joined at the hip at some point. Now that’s a point guard that can shoot and get to the rim.

Id take him.

Yes. He would make B Roy look much better on offense, and Oden much better on defense.

Give up: Outlaw pkg with Sergio or Blake.

Ok, I have a question for all of you. If Chicago really wanted a high-draft pick, would you be willing to take on Etan Thomas’ contract and get the fifth pick from Washington?

1) Yes I think Hinrich fits in perfectly, better ball handler, driver and defender. Can get his own shot. Not as accurate from downtown, but is still above average.

2) Some combination of Blake, Sergio and Outlaw. Salaries don’t have to match with our cap space or we can have to match so we can sign a FA, so Blake and Outlaw seem most likely. Frye could help in a sign and trade. Just as important as acquiring Hinrich is creating PT for Bayless as the backup, and Martell, Rudy and Batum sharing the SF minutes (Rudy would get some SG minutes as well). Reminds me of the Z-Bo trade where we got Frye (bought out Stevie Franchise), but was mostly addition by subtraction to get LMA on the court.

Yes yes yes

I think he would be a very good fit here in Portland.

My biggest question is whether he is sufficient enough of an upgrade to warrant the ramifications to Portland’s salary management and whatever cost in exchanged players from our current roster. But that’s what KP and Tom Penn are paid to worry about. If a deal goes down for Hinrich, I will not be upset.

If I listen to my head and not my heart, I say we make an offer for Hinrich. I just have to tell my heart to shutup, since I think one of the pieces likely to be shipped to the Bulls would be Blake and unlike Mr. Golliver, I happen to appreciate what Steve brings to the team and do not see him as a major weak spot.

I don’t think I’ll worry much though, as there may be teams with more to offer than Portland.

even though he’d become even more replaceable with hinrich able to play with bayless as combo guard combo.

He seems pretty pricey, would we leap from 13th best defensive team to top 5, just on hinrich alone? Not sure. If you don’t give up too much more than blake +(trade exception, cash, washing machine).

2. Outlaw, Blake, Sergio, Frye, all of this year’s draft picks. Would at least think about Rudy.
3. (there’s a 3 now) Unless we could get someone better for those same assets (Rubio, maybe Conley).

I say no.

1. Yes
2. For Cabbie and a bunch of cabbages

I really don’t care if the Blazer trade or don’t trade for Hinrich. I think he’s good but not good enough to get excited over. So since I think he’s good, I would not get upset with having him on the roster.

To me he’s a “reality guy.” It is like when you decide you want to buy something new. You have your idea in your mind, then you check out the prices and you realized you can’t afford what you really want.

It’s like buying a HDTV and you have your mind set on a 72 inch HDTV. Then you look at the price, and realize you’ll be getting something in the 40-50 inch range instead. The bright side is that you’re not getting a 22 inch HDTV.

http://www.blogabull.com/2009/5/15/876643/if-the-bulls-want-to-move-kirk

In short:

• They save the difference in salary between Blake and Hinrich
• They get an adequate replacement who can play as an off guard next to Rose and back him up (Sergio and Bayless can’t do that, neither can just any other expiring contract player)
• They get that salary difference as a traded player exception (ca. $5.5 million, to be used potentially later)
• They get their 2010 second round pick back, and another future pick (likely first round)
• We can absorb the difference with our cap space after Frye is gone

It’s not sexy for Bulls fans, but I think this is exactly how it would go down if saving Hinrich’s contract money from their cap is the main motivation for the Bulls.

but is he the right fit? If KP were to pull another rabbit out of a hat and get a SF with a better penetrating game (or if Martell were to come back from injury with the ability to take it to the hole, or if Batum turns potential into reality, and develops that skill), it might work.

Otherwise, the Blazers have a similar problem as this year—only one guy (Roy) who can break down the defense. (On the starting lineup).

OTOH, if the only cost is spare parts, getting Captain Kirk is a no-brainer.

Just as good a shooter as Steve, good defender, can get to the rim and get calls.

As I see it, the bulls would be getting a more pure point guard (Hinrich can be more of a hybrid scorer when necessary) who they are more comfortable calling a true #1 backup behind Rose, all while paying a lesser salary and presumably getting more out of the remaining piece(s) we provide with Blake.

Thoughts?

So we have a platoon of steady point guard play?

1. Yes (if we can keep Blakey)
2. trade exception, Sergio, Bayless (blasphemy I know) Sign & Trade Frye or RLEC, any number of Draft Picks, Outlaw, Anything we find lying at the end of the Bench, The rights to Freeland or Kkopponnenn

A defensive upgrade, yes, but similar offensive stats doesn’t mean he’d be as good offensively as Blake in the Blazer’s system with the current players and coaches. Blake knows these guys and he knows the offense,

I’m not against upgrading, I just think it needs to be a clear, clear upgrade especially if the team is giving up good players with potential and killing the cap space.

If they feel that can’t resign Gordon, I am pretty sure they would snap up Rudy in a heartbeat. I know Blazer fans are in love with Rudy, I love Rudy, but lets face it he is the 2nd coming of Drazen Petrovic, a great player trapped behind the best player.

I would love to be able to swap Rudy for Heinrich, gives us defense and honestly is going to hit the long ball with about the same percentage as Rudy. Also consolidates the rotation a bit, fits inside our window.

The only concern is we lose a fair amount of scoring punch coming off the bench, but with both Batum’s continued development, and the return of Martel (who I expect BIG things from next year)… Rudy may be that redundant piece we can part with.

Sometimes you have to make big moves to make a big move.

I like Captain Kirk, but we need to keep Blake too, or we are in the same position, Kirk would have to spend too much time on the floor. One question: How good is he running the pick and roll?

Wendy from Blogabull, a few weeks ago.

Obviously there’s a price where the Bulls don’t resign Ben, and from the org history and what was said last year that price is presumed to be the dollar amount where the Bulls enter the luxury tax. As things stand now, that would be a contract Ben has no interest in, nor should he.

I’m saying that Bulls fans look at trading with Portland because (a) you all have expressed an interest in picking up Kirk, and (b) you have some non-guaranteed contracts on your team, guys the Bulls could cut in order to make a better offer to Ben without getting into the LT. Most Bulls fans want Ben back (at a reasonable cost) for his offense – and I think you are underestimating what role Ben plays on the Bulls. 20 ppg scorers aren’t all that common, and Ben does that with a high level of efficiency for us. There’s a reasonable argument that he’s significantly more important to us right now because of team makeup than he would be to anyone else.

And with Ben back and Kirk gone, Bulls fans would not want Blake at his cost playing limited minutes to backup Derrick – either a rookie or vet-minimum guy is more in line with the thinking. If it’s looking like there’s no chance to sign Ben, Bulls fans would rather have Kirk back another season (or half season) playing supersub than exchange him for Blake. Only a very small minority of Bulls fans talk about trading for Blake as a means to having him on the team – with Ben back, he’d be looking at maybe 10 minutes a night in a strict backup PG role. The fans that want both Ben and Kirk gone want a stud big man in return, not Blake. Maybe Ben ends up not resigning anyway, but Blake would have already been cut to make room for the possibility, and in that case the Bulls take the cap space and work with that.

And don’t make the mistake of thinking this is the only trade that Bulls fans are envisioning this summer, or that keeping one of Kirk or Ben to start next season means Bulls fans see them as long-term fits. Sure, role players can be replaced – but we’ve got some excellent role players right now, and the guys you’re talking about forming the core are still on rookie contracts, leaving relatively more cap room for role player salaries. Moving our great role players for not-so-great ones doesn’t make sense for us right now because we’d be less competitive in the immediate future, and because we’d have less to offer salary-matching wise in future trades to improve the team.

Finally, considering the org has not met Ben’s demands the past two summers, and that his competing offers are likely to be lower this year because of the economy, I don’t think you need to worry too much about our owner significantly overpaying for Ben – by all reports, Reinsdorf is the least interested in having Ben back of anyone involved on the Bulls’ side of the organization.

Kirk has his flaws, certainly, and is better defensively than offensively. I’d say he’s more average to perhaps slightly above average than a liability – he’s played a big role in the offense in past seasons, but this year he was the 4th option at best because of the team makeup and coming off the bench. If you’re looking for someone to carry the offense or be the second option, Kirk’s definitely not your guy. If he can be your 4th option he’s great – reasonably good shooter, has a solid 3 – and he’s a steady PG when he gets to play most of his minutes there. As a third option, it probably depends on the makeup of the team. Not the most creative guy, but very good in a set offense and at running a team.

I’m a Kirk fan, so take it with a grain of salt if you wish, but I definitely see him as a starting PG – he’s just not the kind of starting PG that is going to carry the team.

On Kirk and the pick and roll:

I think he runs it really well, and I’ve heard others say the same thing so I don’t think it’s all just me being a fan. Of course, this year he didn’t run the point as much as in the past.

I really don’t know if he’ll stay or go. The assumption all year has been they wouldn’t resign Ben, but lately the media are suggesting that the Bulls might consider the tax. Obviously, if Ben’s back the odds of Kirk moving go up. But I have really no sense right now of whether Ben really wants to be back or not, nor what it would take to keep him. Kirk has said publicly he’d like to stay, but I have to think he’d prefer a bigger role than what will be available if Ben resigns and he’s fighting for minutes with Derrick, Ben and John Salmons.

I’m torn. I think he makes the Bulls a better team, but they don’t have the type of role open for him that I’d like for him to get. And I think Kirk does better in a more set offense, where the Bulls have been a little chaotic at times and very one-on-one, your turn my turn this season. So while I was very happy with how he played for the Bulls this season, I think he could play even better in a different system. And since the Blazers are my second favorite team and the one I grew up watching, I’d love to see him with you guys. But like I said, I’m not really qualified to judge how much of an upgrade he is over Blake, because I’m just not that familiar with his game

Link

We can still make room for Bayless. This move would be saying that the future is here.

Remaining salary Hinrich: $9.5 million 2009/10, $9.0 million 2010/11, $8.0 million 2011/12

Remaining salary Blake: $4 million 2009/10, then new deal (probably slightly increasing)

Cap calculation deadline deal: $10 million salary Kirk – $4.25 million salary Blake = $5.75 million difference which the Blazers can absorb with cap space of ca. $6.7 million if Channing Frye doesn’t get the QO and assuming the cap stays around where it is now and doesn’t crash down. The Bulls save the difference on their cap (that won’t get the Bulls under the cap, but presumably under the luxury tax), and get a trade exception in that height.

Cap calculation after moratorium ends: $9.5 million salary Kirk – $4 million salary Blake = $5.5 million if they want to do it later in the offseason after the moratorium ends (and Blake has healed). Don’t know what the teams would prefer. It now fails on the ESPN trade machine, but if will work when it needs to be done.

I think they could (should?) alternate who starts based on the matchups. When there is an opposing PG who needs to be contained for the Blazers to win (CP3, Tony Parker, Russell Westbrook etc.) then you start Hinrich. If the other teams PG is slower, older or a poor defender (Kidd, Nash, D-Fish, etc.) you start Bayless and use Bayless breaking down the defender as a way to initiate the offense early on.

Alternating the starting PG also gets Bayless more comfortable with the starters on the floor.

yes heinrich is an upgrade, yes we should get him if we could.

s

he is a rich man’s steve blake that makes twice as much money and has 3 years left on the contract

massive upgrade on defense.

Its a no-brainer if we can do it without trading 7,52,12,10,5 or 88.

Ever since Chi got the #1 pick last year, everyone around here thought that we would make a move for Hinrich, didn’t happen.

Up to the trade deadline we were sitting on RLEC and Kirk’s salary pretty much matched up with a little filler and we all expected we would get him, didn’t happen.

You can say there were extenuating circumstances but the bottom line is this:

KP has had ample time to acquire Hinrich in a multitude of deals, pre 08 draft, post 08 draft and pre TD and nothing has come of it other than hundreds of thousands of posts on him, meaning that KP does not feel that Hinrich is worth the upgrade and so do I.

No deal for Blake can be commenced until the Blazers pick up his option (the same goes for Outlaw).

That hasn’t happened yet—and won’t until the season is over.

I would be shocked if the Blazers failed to do so in either case—but until the option IS exercised, both players are untradeable. (And if the option is declined; the players become free agents, and are also untradeable).

You can’t trade a player with a team option to another team, for that team to then cut. Considered a salary-cap no-no.

I don’t understand how people could think he’s not a huge upgrade from Blake. Have you seen Hinrich play defense? One of the better perimeter defenders in the league. His defense skills alone means he’s better than Blake. As a bonus he can shoot and is pretty careful with the ball, He seems like he would fit into Nate’s system well.

• The majority opinion seems to be that Hinrich is an upgrade over Blake. How much of an upgrade is in dispute, but let’s say he’s 20% better, considering the total package.
• He’s going to cost twice as much money as Blake.
• He’s probably the best point guard we can realistically obtain. He’s a veteran in his prime, a good defender, good team guy, good passer, good shooter, and has good size.
• If Hinrich comes in, Blake probably goes out, either because Chicago will want him or because KP won’t want to replace the competition at the backup point guard spot with a competition at the starting PG spot.
• Hinrich won’t come cheap. Good, veteran point guards who play defense are worth a lot, and if Chicago wants to trade him, they’re going to get better offers than Blake, Outlaw, and a pick. Not necessarily better in overall talent, but better for what Chicago wants or needs, such as a banger in the post. KP might have to involve a third team in the deal to get the kind of sweetener Chicago wants.
• Hinrich replacing Blake is at its best is still a gamble.

Do it, KP.

Kirk replacing Sergio is not a gamble.

I’ll have to replace him with Star Trek.
I like Star Trek.

Let’s boldly go and do the trade!

Yes I want him.
I would give up Sergio, Bayless, Martel, Frye or Travis, but not both.

I want KP to instead acquire… a Klingon.

Klingons are Real.Ballerz™

Real.Ballerz is a registered trademark of fattyco, inc. All rights reserved

Other statistical comparisons were linked above. I’ve not yet come to a player DNA point guard post, but since it’s a hot topic today I’ll post this comparison now.

2. I can’t think of anyone we’d be willing to give up that Chicago would want. They already have Deng and Salmons so they wouldn’t be interested in Outlaw. Also, isn’t Hinrich making about 10 mil a year?

Conley or bust. A happy Greg is 1000 times more valuable to this team than any distibuting/spot up shooting/driveing to the hole/ can hit the three…. pg.

not to mention making greg happy brings us a distibuting/spot up shooting/driveing to the hole/ can hit the three…. pg….. and a pg that will know he ain’t got a shot in hell at being the man on this team and will happily fill the get the ball to oden/ pure Point guard role for us….

oh and is alot faster than blake.

I think aTravis and Steve+ whatever for Kirk,they cut Steve and we resign him deal would work both teams

I definitely think that Kirk would be an upgrade at PG over Steve but…

I think our priority should be the weakness exposed in the playoffs ie someone who can create their own shot.

Best option for me would be Devin Harris.
Don’t know how/who we would trade to get him but he would be the answer.
I remember hearing that the Nets where willing to trade RLFEC straight up for Vince Carter.
Can’t we work something out like re-signing Raef to a 1 year expiring deal (is this possible?) and ship him for Devin and whoever their biggest earner/stiff (Simmons) and maybe Vince for players like Travis, Rudy, Channing, Blake, Bayless.

If they wanted to save money they would be completely gutting their payroll… admittedly we would be blowing ours out but it would be worth it…. we’re not going to be getting a better option in free-agency.

Only problem is Devin is Base Level contract but I’m sure with all our cheap players, draft picks, cash etc we could get something done…

I know I’m probably missing something major of why this wouldn’t happen but…
Thoughts???

I haven’t seen enough of Kirk to say that emphatically, but from what I’ve seen, I’ve been impressed. I love his backcourt defense and find him a rather favorable comparison to Stevie.

The main thing I want to see, no matter what direction the team goes in, is more off-ball movement from the Point. I think Rudy is a big spark off the bench because he does this better than anyone on the team currently and if we can create that kind of the movement from the Point when Brandon brings the ball down the court or is controlling it at the 3-point line, they would be able to spread any defense so thin I could penetrate it.

Bayless will add this to his arsenal I’m sure, Kirk certainly will in an offense like Nate’s, and Stevie is still young enough to add it in to his game.

But Hinrich’s D tips the scale in his favor. Steve’s scrappy, but I don’t think he can keep it up for 80+ games.

Granted, this is only if it doesn’t cost too much.

Who would get the easy job on D? Ya think?

Rudy is too valuable. I would hate to see Blake go, but I do think Hinrich is an upgrade for the right price. IMO, the question isn’t who would you rather see starting at point Blake or Hinrich, but who would you rather see, Hinrich or Conley Jr? Conley seems to get a lot of love here on BE, but would he be a better fit than Hinrich? To me, the jury is out. I would like to see the deal that ships Sergio and Trout out of town. I just think that the Blazers have too much talent, and not enough minutes. They need to consolidate. If we can package picks and those two, then you do the deal, does not matter which of the two you get back.

He is an upgrade and I would be delighted to have him for the right price. Outlaw, Blake, and capspace would be the 3 pieces I am most willing to part with. Not sure I would give up all 3 at once though. And as far as including Rudy goes, no dice.

RUDY LEAVES OVER MY DEAD BODY….