Martell Webster

by DCBlazerinPDX on May 28, 2009 9:44 PM PDT

Watching Orlando play this post season, I can see where a lot of their success could possibly be emulated by our Blazers. Now granted, turning Greg Oden into Dwight Howard ain't really fair to Greg, but Orlando has certainly done well by having multiple players who can hit the 3. Which keeps bringing me back to Martell. IF Webs can take it up to the next level, I really sorta like a lineup that would feature:

Roy, Fernandez,Webster,LMA and GO. Speed up the game, use the 3 ball to create good looks inside for LMA and GO. I believe that Broy and Rudy are sufficient to bring the ball up the court.The two big "ifs" are Martell and Greg, but if they continue to evolve..well, that's a heckuva team! Would like to see us add a banger at the 4, and a quick, defensive Point (Collison?) to the mix. Will be an interesting off season..

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why would we bring nick collison to play the point ?!?!?!?!

kidding. I like darren collison in the draft but where would he play ? dont see any minuets freeing up at point or SG. But maybe i dont see those minuets because im looking and seeing Bayless still here next year hard to make minuets for 2 young points

The Blazers will play beautiful basketball.

Brandon will shoot the lights out. Blake will run and LMA will finish strong at the hoop. Bayless will play because we’ll be so far ahead in the 4th quarter, giving all the Jerryd fans something to smile about.

But wait, that’s not all. Rudy will go 5 of 5 from distance. Batum will posterize someone. And Channing will NOT lead the team in points.

qoute from ofred

by Kingzilla on May 28, 2009 9:59 PM PDT reply actions

I also think

Roy, Rudy, Webster, Outlaw and LMA would b a great shooting line uppossible 3rd quarter starters. Very fast and dealy line up if they are all hitting.

The Blazers will play beautiful basketball.

But wait, that’s not all. Rudy will go 5 of 5 from distance. Batum will posterize someone. And Channing will NOT lead the team in points.

qoute from ofred

by Kingzilla on May 28, 2009 10:01 PM PDT reply actions

stupid big finger *possible was what i meant

The Blazers will play beautiful basketball.

But wait, that’s not all. Rudy will go 5 of 5 from distance. Batum will posterize someone. And Channing will NOT lead the team in points.

qoute from ofred

by Kingzilla on May 28, 2009 10:04 PM PDT reply actions

Actually

Eventually, Greg Oden > Dwight Howard is still my expectation.

Might not happen, but it’s what I think can happen, no matter the doubters.

The Blazer offense is already far more efficent. If they learn how to play defense… it’s over for the league.

I know less than half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.

by haildablazer on May 28, 2009 10:28 PM PDT reply actions

Dont expect the team to put out

Anything but disinformation about Martell’s rehab before the draft.

by southern oregon on May 28, 2009 10:39 PM PDT reply actions

Er, if fast = slow

Who is going to push the ball in that lineup?

Roy plays at one pace, and to be generous, we’ll call it “deliberate” or maybe “measured”.

If he is handling the ball, the Blazers are not pushing pace. Rudy could get it up court faster, but I wouldn’t expect him to be the primary ball handler in the offense.

It’s a nice dream though.

by baduk on May 28, 2009 10:46 PM PDT reply actions

I think Nate

Wants a PG who will prove to him he can run the break. Before he goes ahead & hands someone the keys, obviously Blake can’t.

Offseason:
Mike Conley Jr
Reggie Evans
Othello Hunter
(D)Kevin Seraphin
(D)Rodrigue Beaubois

by TheGreatDane17 on May 28, 2009 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions

I dont fully buy into this argument

as Karl loved Blake in Denver and they run an uptempo offense and Blake got a lot of assists off of it. Maybe it is a case of trying to have your cake and eat it too with Nate as he may want control over the offense, but yet let it run at a high pace, and those maybe mutually exclusive.

Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.

by jonestr on May 29, 2009 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions

We don't want to play Roy long stretches at point.

It would be far far too tiring for him to have to constantly guard the other team’s point, thus making him less effective on offense.

"Respect everyone, fear no one." -TP

by Arby on May 28, 2009 11:18 PM PDT reply actions

Playing point...

Doesn’t mean he has to guard the point.

Offseason:
Mike Conley Jr
Reggie Evans
Othello Hunter
(D)Kevin Seraphin
(D)Rodrigue Beaubois

by TheGreatDane17 on May 28, 2009 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions

Martell sucks

Webster has not shown anything in his first 4 years and even Martell at his best is not as good as Batum in his rookie year.

Websters career best PER in only 12 while Batum averaged 12.9 last year and is a better shooter than Webster as well with a higher eFG% and TS% as well. All of that is offensive only not mentioning that Batum is head and shoulders better than Martell at D. He was the Blazers best perimeter D’er last year as a rook and it would be absurd to suggest that a 23 YO Martell has more potential than the 20 YO rook that is Batum. There is just no way Batum can get less than the 18mpg he got last year.

Check the career stats

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/tiny.cgi?id=fDSRi

Ask yourself these questions?

Who has the greater potential? Martell who has been in the league for 4 years and is 22? Or a 20 year old rook who is coming from overseas?

Who is the better shooter? Martell who has a career .372 3pt ? or Nic with a .369 3pt %? I dont want to hear how many 3pters Martell made he still shot a lousy % and career per 36min Martell only took 1.2 more but only made .5 more than Nic and still has not even passed 40 from 3.

Who is the better D’er? Can you really see Martell on DWill as Nic was? Nic has received praise and is clearly the best perimeter D’er on the team.

The clear answer is Nic on all of those categories and he MUST receive more minutes than Webster in order to accelerate his growth curve.

Martell has had his chance and did nothing with it, much like Travis who isn’t a SF though.

Bench of trade Martell to let Nic become the player he can be.

"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08

by SpyderRyder on May 28, 2009 11:33 PM PDT reply actions

why not play them both?

I think Martel showed a lot of promise in 07-08 and was perhaps poised to make a leap in 08-09. Obviously, that plan was done in by injury.

Assuming Outlaw is dealt this summer, why not have Martel and Nic split time at the SF spot all year? You can play them situationally, and I think their skills complement each other well. Whoever’s game is on in a particular game ends up getting the crunch time minutes (if we aren’t going 3 guard). Both guys average around 24 minutes per game for the season. What’s the downside in that?

How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009

by douglast on May 28, 2009 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions

Pretty much what I have in mind

by southern oregon on May 28, 2009 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions

one word:

Rudy

That was the second part of my plan. Many have wondered how to get Rudy more minutes, with Roy talking 34-39 SG mins Rudy will only see 9-14 mpg @ SG. @ the PG we need a vet to start for the next 2-3 years ala Blake, Miller or Kidd allowing a young PG to develop and that will not allow any mins @ PG so the only other spot for Rudy to go is SF (or have Roy @ SF and Rudy @ SG)

I would prefer

Roy
Rudy
Batum
LMA
Oden

over

Roy
Rudy
Batum
LMA
Oden

Also if we go Batum/Webster neither of them can handle the ball as well as Rudy can leaving only Roy/Blake/Bayless/vet PG as the sole ballhandler which could get messy in a hurry.

I say the same thing about Rudy, that we cannot give him less minutes than he had last season @ 25.

"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08

by SpyderRyder on May 29, 2009 12:02 AM PDT up reply actions

I think Batum can handle the ball better then we have seen

I have watched some of him when he was younger and he brought the ball up court. Of course that is against my less talented teams but still. When he has got the ball on fast breaks he knows what to do with it. He passes well and seems to be able to find open shooters. I believe he can bring the ball up court in a quick manner to start the offense. Would I want him to do it on a constant basis? No, but for a short period yes. I also think he has more offense then he showed. I believe he had the same issue as the back up points, was afraid of being pulled if made a mistake. I believe the work he is going to do for the French national team this summer will help he tons. Did not mean for this to be a Batum love fest post…..

by RaiderVadar on May 29, 2009 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions

?

I would prefer

Roy
Rudy
Batum
LMA
Oden

over

Roy
Rudy
Batum
LMA
Oden

by pualo on May 29, 2009 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions

whoops

Webster
Batum

Rudy
Batum

you get my point

"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08

by SpyderRyder on May 29, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions

what you are saying is valid

there is no argument that Batum had better stats, but he was really playing in a different system than Martell did. I would argue that Martell had tougher looks than Batum did due to the fact that there was either little low post offense or little ball movement so defenders were allowed to stay home on 3pt shooters. You can look at the jump that Blake and Roy made in 3pt% from last year to this year to get a rough idea of the difference. I am betting if Webster got some of those juicy open looks that defenses were giving to Batum you might see the same sort of increase.

I wont really argue how things went defensively as Batum has a lot of “wow” moments on defense, but Martell is not necessarily a slouch on that end and showed some real improvement in 07-08’ and plays less of a gambling role than Nic, which in turns leads to less “wow” moments. I think at this point they both have weaknesses and upsides that need to be fleshed out and see how they fit with the starting unit.

Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.

by jonestr on May 29, 2009 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions

no discredit to Batum

but comparing fg percentage is unfair considering the way they were expected to score. Batum was focused on d and rarely was aggressive with the ball. Webster was asked to be a major cog in the offense the year before his injury and he responded with his best season to date. Rudy stepped in this year and played Webster’s role of running off screens and shooting the 3. I didn’t once this season see a play ran FOR Batum. He would never get the shots to score 24 in a quarter as Webby did against Utah. People forget how talented this kid is. If he can recover from his injury he will reclaim a starting role one way or another.

by The Natural ala Mode on May 29, 2009 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions

yeah the roles were totally different

Nic started with Blake, Roy, LMA and Przybilla while Martell started with Blake, Roy, LMA and Przybilla, oh wait they are the same. Both teams had little to no post game and to say there was not as much ball movement is false as the Blazers had more assists in the year Martell played as opposed to last year. That argument does not hold water also as with the same roster how did Jones garner his career year best 3pt % in Portland last year?

In looking at their assisted vs non assisted stats Martell took a higher % of jumpers but was only assisted on 4% less than Batum and in fact overall Martell had more assisted baskets than Batum did albeit only by 1%.

Across the board, Nic has statistically an edge over Webster and that does not even account for how many times you have heard and seen him do “those little things that do not show up in the stat box.”

The reason there were not as many “wow” moments was due to the fact that Martell is not half the athlete that Nic is. Add to the fact that Nic has shown more on court savvy in his rookie year than Martell has shown in 4 and it is a no brainer to give Nic and Rudy the bulk of the PT.

I understand that they both have shortcomings but the problem is bigger than just Nic/Martell as it is also finding time for Rudy as he is the best of the 3 as of this time. If you look back at his first years in the league on a per 36 min basis NOTHING has improved measurably as the only increases have come from an increase in PT.

Martell has had his chance to grab the spot and has failed.

"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08

by SpyderRyder on May 29, 2009 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions

I think you are discounting

time spent playing with Oden and the development of LMA from year 2 to 3, which in my eyes was pretty big, especially at the end of the year. Objectively there were a lot more open 3s around this year than there was last year. The reason I brought up ball movement is that Martell also played with ZBo so I was just covering my bases as to why Martell did not have the open looks that Batum enjoyed this season.

I guess it comes down to whether or not you think the Blazers had more open looks this year than in anytime that Martell has been here.

I think a lot of us have been wondering what Martell would do since it seemed like we were seeing Martell 2.0 as he seemed to have a new attitude that he has really carried over. You have made a sound case the Batum is better statistically, but you have not convinced me that he should be an incumbent starter.

Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.

by jonestr on May 29, 2009 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions

to put a little data to the idea

that the 2008-2009 blazers were less of a jump shooting team I looked over at nba hot shots and looked at the percentage of shots taken from 15’ and in and 15’ and out. In 2007-2008 47% of shots were inside of 15’ and 53% were outside of 15’; for 2008-2009 the numbers were reversed.

Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.

by jonestr on May 29, 2009 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions