The small line-up

by parkinglotj on May 28, 2009 8:53 PM PDT Comment 27 comments

I'm concerned.

All this talk of Outlaw on the block in almost every trade worries me. How can this be? I've proposed trades involving Outlaw, but I didn't consider the ramifications.

Here is something Ben wrote last September that I thought was interesting about Outlaw. http://www.blazersedge.com/2008/9/2/606449/a-look-at-trout-s-fgas

That is almost a year old, but I thought it interesting. Then I thought of another potential problem with trading Outlaw.

I'm not talking about B-Roy's well known friendship with Trout. I'm not talking about taking away a last minute hero in more than a few games. I'm not even talking about the guy that bridged the gaps between several players on our most favorite team.

I'm talking about our only option at PF when the small line-up goes out on the floor.

How many times this year did Nate go to this line-up? More than I can count.

If Outlaw is traded, who you going to put there? LMA, no. He's the center in that line-up. How about Batum? no. He's way to small. Ditto for Martell.

Maybe Nate would go a different route, but it seems that a LOT of teams use this tactic on a regular basis. Do we want to match up with them or go super big with 2 of Oden, Pryz and LMA. It seems that Nate would want more options.

If Outlaw is traded, it is my opinion KP must add a player similar to him either through the draft or in FA. While I'm not opposed to trading Outlaw, it would open another hole to fill.

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Do you think we are going to resign Outlaw when his contract expires? he will almost surely command more then 4 mil a year

Draft Cole Aldrich 2010

by jlarose78 on May 28, 2009 9:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I disagree

Who is going to sign him next summer when teams are still trying to shed salary, and when there are so many bigger free agents?

Only teams under the cap can offer more than the mid-level (about $5 million), and teams under the cap fall into two categories:

1. LeBron/Bosh/Wade/etc.. chasers
2. teams that want to stay under the cap

Neither of those groups is going to drop $8 million or whatever on a guy whose speciality is scoring, but who only scores 11 points a game, and who in his best season got some luke warm support for 6th man.

by matthewcc on May 29, 2009 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good point

He really is an ideal fit at PF when the small lineup is on the floor.

by tcwoods on May 28, 2009 9:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Well

assuming we are trading Outlaw in order to upgrade our PG or SF spot I don’t think this will present any problem. Sure we’ll have to tweak the rotation, but I don’t think worrying about how to replace a specific lineup, small ball in this case, is something to dwell on too long when making a trade.

However, this is a pretty good reason to decline a lateral trade. There’s no reason to give up Outlaw, who fits well in the small ball 4 spot, if we’re just making a sideways move.

For example, if we think Nash is the PG we want until Bayless or whomever is ready to take over and we trade Outlaw I’m not going to be worrying about our small ball lineup. On the other hand, if we are swapping Outlaw in a trade to get a mid-level draft pick then I consider how that is going to effect our lineup.

"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"

by Magnum on May 28, 2009 9:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

good point

most people think about starting line ups when they think trades not situational line ups like tall, 3 point, defense, small ball, things like that exactly the reason i dont like trades. Nice to see someone thinking off all aspects….you sir (or mam) have a great basketball mind

The Blazers will play beautiful basketball.

Brandon will shoot the lights out. Blake will run and LMA will finish strong at the hoop. Bayless will play because we’ll be so far ahead in the 4th quarter, giving all the Jerryd fans something to smile about.

But wait, that’s not all. Rudy will go 5 of 5 from distance. Batum will posterize someone. And Channing will NOT lead the team in points.

qoute from ofred

by Kingzilla on May 28, 2009 9:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

We have 3 at the 3

Martell coming off injury,not tradeable Batum, better upside.Roy, to give time for Rudy! Sorry I like Trout but no time left! Use his tradevalue while it’s still high or get nothing!

by We-B-Dunkin on May 28, 2009 9:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

If Outlaw is kept I ONLY want to see him play PF

The problem with this is that I don’t want him to be the only option at PF, because sometimes you need that banger off the bench. What does that mean?

First you have LMA getting 36 minutes per game. Then you divide up the 12 extra minutes between Outlaw and the banger, and you have a very unhappy Travis Outlaw. I think we can get more value out of Outlaw as a trade chip than we could get out of him being kept for small ball specific lineups.

I would want a small ball power forward, but keeping Travis would be a misuse of assets. I think you can bring in a guy similar to him through other means, someone that wouldn’t have a problem being a specific hole filler.

A significantly bulked up version of Austin Daye might work.

by as11osu on May 28, 2009 9:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I was thinking Kleiza

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=2770&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fplayers%2fhollinger%3fplayerId%3d2770

Same kind of player as Outlaw, but tougher.

Restricted FA and Denver has some decisions.

by parkinglotj on May 28, 2009 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He was definitely one of the FA options I'd look at... the problem is do you not pick up

a Brandon Bass/Trevor Ariza/Ramon Sessions type quality FA because you want to sign a couple guys to 4 million dollar deals?

I think you have to go after the singular entity that’s better.

Other UFA’s or RFA’s that might fit the bill:
Marvin Williams RFA
Linas Kleiza RFA
Walter Herrmann RFA
Lamar Odom UFA
Hakim Warrick RFA
Jamario Moon RFA
Charlie Villanueva RFA
Al Harrington UFA
Hedo Turkoglu UFA
Donyell Marshall UFA
Shawn Marion UFA

Draftees:
Austin Daye
DaJuan Summers

by as11osu on May 28, 2009 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nice list.

I’d be hard to cheer for Odom, but I think I could get over it.

by parkinglotj on May 28, 2009 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I only listed him because I had to (I'm all for comprehensive lists)

by as11osu on May 28, 2009 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If we trade Travis, we're definitely getting another PF somewhere.

Who’s to say that PF X + LMA couldn’t work as the bigs in small ball?

by pualo on May 28, 2009 9:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

True,

but I’ve only heard people talk about a bruiser. An Evans or Gadzuric type. They don’t fill the bill for a small ball line-up in my opinion.

by parkinglotj on May 28, 2009 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

We hardly ever use a small lineup

Because we have two good-great low post defenders in Przybilla & Oden. Using a small lineup means running, which we won’t do hardly any of unless we have a coaching change.

Offseason:
Mike Conley Jr
Reggie Evans
Othello Hunter
(D)Kevin Seraphin
(D)Rodrigue Beaubois

by TheGreatDane17 on May 28, 2009 10:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Not true.

A center with good vision can get an outlet pass that leads to a fast break. The best breaks involve no more than three players.

What the Blazers need is a green light to leak out on the break, which means coaching.

I know less than half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.

by haildablazer on May 28, 2009 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, OK

True that the Blazers never go small, but it’s not that it can’t mean running.

In fact, a perfect outlet pass by the center means he never has to run a step, he can just hang back and wait.

I know less than half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.

by haildablazer on May 28, 2009 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

We don't have a Kevin Love

And McMillan isn’t going to be wasting his time with GO or LaMarcus throwing outlet passes in practice. Just saying. Maybe a vet post to teach them the fine art of passing could rub off on them? Ideas?

Offseason:
Mike Conley Jr
Reggie Evans
Othello Hunter
(D)Kevin Seraphin
(D)Rodrigue Beaubois

by TheGreatDane17 on May 28, 2009 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

That’s what I meant by coaching. I don’t think an outlet pass could be that hard, a player just has to be looking for it.

Like Antonio McDeyss? He’d be perfect for that, Dice has always been a willing passer out of the post.

I know less than half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.

by haildablazer on May 29, 2009 7:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

LMA does initiate the fast break very well

He runs on the fast break wonderfully but when he gets a rebound, more often then not, he holds the ball until all traffice clears then passes the ball. By that time the chance for a fast break is over. I would love to see more outlet passes from him. That is what he really needs to work on for this team to become a fast break team.

by RaiderVadar on May 29, 2009 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i salivate when i see a guy like gasol start the break

"The problem with tweeners is that sometimes they’re exactly what you need to plug the hole and sometimes they are the hole."

-LaughingJon

by appel82 on May 29, 2009 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He doesn't rebound.

He stands around.

This year is NOT a building season!!

by collectiveshane on May 28, 2009 11:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Just because we use a small lineup to accomodate Travis doesn’t mean that we have to have to use a small lineup.

Plus, Martell is just as big as Travis and nearly as big as Rashard Lewis. It’s not like Travis is doing the PF things, like rebounding or playing post defense. Martell could probably learn to play the PF position as well as Travis.

Fearthesword.com: "There is no doubt that the long layoff, combined with the ease of the first two rounds had the Cavaliers a bit tired in the 4th quarter."

by Cablinasian on May 28, 2009 11:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Martell can attempt to pull the opposing 4 out

Just like Outlaw did.

Offseason:
Mike Conley Jr
Reggie Evans
Othello Hunter
(D)Kevin Seraphin
(D)Rodrigue Beaubois

by TheGreatDane17 on May 28, 2009 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

yep… it’s not like Travis played great post D or rebounded like a PF. His job was to pull the PF out onto the perimeter.

Fearthesword.com: "There is no doubt that the long layoff, combined with the ease of the first two rounds had the Cavaliers a bit tired in the 4th quarter."

by Cablinasian on May 28, 2009 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was going to suggest exactly this.

Martell is only two inches shorter but 28lb heavier than Outlaw. Outlaw was a woeful defender, to think Martell at a larger weight would do any worse against a power forward would be a little short sighted.

Land was created to provide a place for boats to visit.

by The Pirate on May 29, 2009 2:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs