The point guard is greener on the other side
by blazing truth on May 26, 2009 1:54 PM PDT
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The point guard is greener on the other side
To put it simply, Steve Blake needs to stay. He is a good fit in Portland and can fill a role on Portland's championship run.
Steve Blake had a career year. He is playing good basketball. The Blazers know it. The league knows it. Steve's former coach even knows it. Here is what George Karl recently said to the Columbian about Blake.
"I've never seen him play like this. Makes me very angry, because I always thought that he was the guy we should've kept. That was a money contract year. And watching him now making 45 percent of his threes, that was the only weakness I thought he had when we had him, was would he ever become a great 3-point shooter, and he would fit perfectly with our team."
(How come Blazer fans don’t know it?)
Blake is not going to hinder us in games. Blake plays under control and is consistent. You know what you are going to get from him each night. He is one of three Blazers you can count on 82+ games. We did not lose the Rocket playoff series because of Blake’s deficiencies. We lost the series because of we had too many playoff virgins that can't play consistently at a high level.
The Blazers will not get a super star point guard in the off season. You will never see Chris Paul or Deron Williams in a Blazer uniform. The truth is the Blazers would have to give up too much to get a star point guard. They would have to give up at least one of their core 3 and possibly Rudy or Batum. KP is a gambler, but only when the odds are in his favor. Making a trade like that is not a good bet. It is a desperation move and the Blazers are far from entering that realm.
The Blazers need to bring consistency. We need to be looking for players who will come in and fulfill a role every game. Teams on the cusp of greatness do not trade quality role players like Steve Blake and neither should we.
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No
We lost because Blake’s man to man defense is atrocious. But at least he tries hard. I am not against keeping him, but I don’t think we will win a championship with him starting at the 1.
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 26, 2009 1:59 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
incorrect
Very few guards in this league can stop Brooks. You just hope your point guard can funnel him to the bigs the majority of the time. Blake’s d is far from great but it wasn’t the reason we lost the series.
by blazing truth on May 26, 2009 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Then we need one of the "very few" At least someone with the lateral agility & commitment
To have a chance.
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 26, 2009 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Who would u suggest?
Who would you suggest is quick enough to guard Brooks and yet still has the offensive skill set to lead the team?
by blazing truth on May 26, 2009 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions
There is no one to suggest.
I have said multiple times that we need to keep Blake as our backup becasue he is efficient, safe, and a good shooter. The key to “handling” a quick point guard on offense it with defense. It’s with more offense. We need a pg who will make the little speedy guy work HARD on defense and beat him up a little in the process. This will cause the opposing PG to get tired much quicker and throw him off his offensive game and make it more difficult for him to run his team’s offense.
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."
i suggest we trade for aaron brooks.
that’s who can guard aaron brooks.
"There are a few teams you have to watch out for in the fourth quarter."
"Yeah, but Portland definitely is not one of them."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters at the end of the third quarter with the Hornets leading 74-59. Portland later ends up winning 97-89.
"They don't mind him shooting that shot at all. Rudy Fernandez is not that great of a 3pt shooter."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters right after a Rudy Fernandez missed 3pter. Rudy Fernandez finished the game with three 3pters on six attempts.
by Tofu Anonymous on May 26, 2009 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions
He isn't for sale :\
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 26, 2009 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions
ha. great comment
funny
We all know what K*be did in Colorado to that girl. Dear Lord, please let whatever team that plays the LA Clankers beat them to oblivion. Amen.
Hahaha
I laughed.
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
by dyshooter182 on May 27, 2009 8:43 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd argue that even Aaron Brooks would have a tough time guarding Aaron Brooks...
…that first step is a killer. Like every other defensive player, he would find himself always chasing, yet rarely catching.
Mike Conley Jr
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 26, 2009 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Even if Conley brings slightly more defense to the table,
if he was with the Blazers, everyone would be complaining about his atrocious shooting.
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
by dyshooter182 on May 27, 2009 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions
He is a .400% 3pt shooter
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 28, 2009 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions
hogwash, we lost becuase scola's man...LAMARCUS...couldn't seem to stop the one manned hair puddle.
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out burns out farms and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
by faith on May 27, 2009 7:33 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
that is because
he had to help out after our perimeter defenders got beaten
bayless leaves over my dead body
sign mike bibby
by thomasikehara on May 27, 2009 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions
And sag so much into Yao
SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKIES. NOT REALLY GOOD FOR ANYTHING BUT THEY BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE WHEN PUSHED DOWN THE STAIRS.
sooooo wrong. did you even watch the games? the blazers defensive scheme clearly had lamarcus helping on yao. we gave scola that 18 footer.
Truth never was or can be propagated by fire and sword - Albert Gallatin
Bayless sucks! Trade him; or at least stop the annoying bayless homerism. his best case is gilbert arenas which is something the blazers don't want and don't need. He was a KP mistake.
The Blazers shouldn't and won't trade Blake
But he is unlikely to be their starting point guard when they start winning championships.
He can’t create mismatches with penetration off the dribble, because he does not, in fact, penetrate off the dribble. He’s a good passer and a very good spot up shooter, though.
Blake
Hits his open shots(mostly) & makes his open passes(mostly)
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 26, 2009 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions
he does not, in fact, penetrate off the dribble
Steve does penetrate (halfway) then chickens out and backpedals
very frustrating
but it keeps his turnover count low (until game 6 vs. the Rockets?) and Nate likes a PG that doesn’t turn the ball over, much
Billups > Blake
Although Blake could make a solid back-up to Bilklups just like he’ll make a solid back-up to whoever we eventually get to start at PG.
Blazer Fan
I'd say Karl's words are a tad inflated.
Blake has no penetration game and his defense is suspect.
It didn’t help his case that he was playing second fiddle to the Allen Iverson show, either.
"Respect everyone, fear no one." -TP
Przybilla is smoking reefer in the offseason, listening to Led Zeppelin;
I know it.
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
In Minnesota.
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 26, 2009 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions
BTW
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 26, 2009 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Steve Blake is around the 18th or so PG in the NBA
I believe a team could win a title with him as the starter, but that team would have to be ridiculously good at the other positions. The Blazers are good but not ridiculously good. They need to be improved and PG is a logical place to make that improvement.
18th? Please...
he’s low 20’s at best. And he’s on the decline. Even his PER which doesn’t even account for his horrid defense is 26th among PG’s. Next year he simply won’t be among the 30 best point guards in the league, which means he SHOULD be a backup. This team has the assets and depth to upgrade at this very important position and should.
yeah, 18th is prob too high
among the guys ahead of him in PER though, I’d rather have Blake as my starting PG than Baron Davis (with his awful contract and lack of effort), Monta Ellis who plays even less D than Steve and is a ballhog, Eddie House (who I’d love as a reserve combo guard but not as a starting 1), and Will Bynum (small sample size— I don’t think he’d be ahead of Steve over a full season). Also, I don’t know if I’d call Nate Robinson a PG.
He’s probably a few spots lower than I listed, but I disagree that he’s low 20s.
Don't forget to throw the young guns just behind Blake last year
ahead of him now, and check guys that are technically SG"s (Hinrich) to add to the list. Then add a rookie or two to the list. Blake doesn’t belong in the top 25, and by the end of next year, when some guys start to break through as Blake continues aging.
Mike Bibby, Rajon Rondo, Eddie House, Raymond Felton, D.J. Augustin, Derrick Rose, Kirk Hinrich, Mo Williams, Delonte West, Jason Kidd, Jason Terry, Chauncey Billups, Rodney Stuckey, Allen Iverson, Monta Ellis, Aaron Brooks, Kyle Lowry, T.J. Ford, Baron Davis, Derek Fisher, Mike Conley, Mario Chalmers, Ramon Sessions, Randy Foye, Devin Harris, Chris Paul, Russell Westbrook, Jameer Nelson, Rafer Alston, Andre Miller, Lou Williams, Steve Nash, Leandro Barbosa, Tony Parker, Jose Calderon, Deron Williams, Gilbert Arenas, Ricky Rubio, Brandon Jennings…
While they might not all be perfect fits here, almost all of these guys bring more to the table and more value overall than Steve Blake.
I'd take Blake over Fisher, Ellis, Alston and maybe a few more on your list
but your point is well taken.
Fisher is still stronger on defense then Blake.
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 26, 2009 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions
While he did average 3 more points against LA
He also didn’t have Yao Ming, allowing him more opportunities.
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 26, 2009 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions
11 point in final 40 seconds of an already over game 2
Raised his scoring average by almost 2 points for the series.
Couldn't disagree more on lots of those guys
Lots of shooting guards that have to play point, but don’t really, on that list. If you read the boards for those teams, you will see a lot of complaining about their deficiencies and scheming on how to get someone decent.
Guys from that list I wouldn’t want over Blake because they aren’t good enough:
Eddie House, Felton, D.J. Augustin, Alston, TJ Ford, Lowry, Delonte West, Lou Williams, Foye
And guys I wouldn’t want as my PG because they aren’t:
Mo Williams, Jason Terry, Allen Iverson, Monta Ellis (borderline), Leandro Barbosa, Gilbert Arenas, Chalmers (borderline, bot not consistent at anything), Stuckey. If we traded for a passing SF like Odom, I could see us doing well with a combo-guard, but right now, we need a true PG. Anyways, I think Bayless could be better than many of these guys in a year or two.
Guys that are too old (and Blake is just entering the prime age for a PG and coming off his best year): Nash, Kidd, Miller
Among the rest, I’d say the jury is still out on Brooks (yes, he had a good run, but he hasn’t proven that he can facilitate or be durable yet), Sessions, Westbrook (can he really run a team), Conley and all the borderline SG guys from above.
Then there are guys like Hinrich, West, Fisher, Miller and Nelson that just aren’t enough better to give up much or even mess up our chemistry. I know each is probably way better at some things, but you have to look at the whole picture.
I’d also have some character/fit concerns about Bibby and Davis.
If KP can get us Rose, Paul, Parker, Deron Williams, or Billups, I’d be ecstatic. Rubio looks intriguing, but he’ll take some time. Jennings is a very high risk project that will need time and might not pan out.
I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I’m just not sure what criteria you are using to reach yours. There are maybe half of these guys I’d reject in favor of Blake.
Eddie House, Raymond Felton, D.J. Augustin, Delonte West, Jason Kidd, Jason Terry, Allen Iverson, Monta Ellis, Baron Davis, Derek Fisher, Mike Conley, Mario Chalmers, Randy Foye, Rafer Alston, Lou Williams, Gilbert Arenas, Ricky Rubio, Brandon Jennings…
hakkaa päälle !
Blake on the decline?
Blake just put up a career year…that’s hardly a player in decline. Granted I would agree that Blake isn’t top 20, he also is isn’t below 25. You really can’t over value a PG who doesn’t commit turnovers and is a great perimeter threat. No he is not lighting it up with offense but that’s not his role (to be a scorer). He’s good enough to keep other teams honest on defense. And as far a defense, there aren’t any lockdown defense PG’s anymore with the way the rules are adjusted. We may never see a player in the mold of Gary Payton, unless the rules change again.. Blake does a good job funneling his man, now Oden has to play the basket and no the ball to reduce picking up cheap fouls.
Yup
The sooner they get rid of the atrocious ‘no hand checks above the arc’ rule the better.
by DonkeyShins on May 27, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
hmm
ridiculously good at the other positions
I would have to classify Roy as “ridiculously good.” LMA is well on his way and Oden hopefully should be as well.
I would also agree that we are not ridiculously good right now, but lets stop and remember our youth and we should not be, yet we are really good at this time.
I just think that people that don’t think Blake can get us a championship do not have a problem in Blake per se, but rather on this team as a whole. Look at it this way, if we froze this years team and there was no improvement to anyone, then yes Steve Blake would not win us a championship, however this team is not frozen and is built around 3rd year players at the most, who are all about 25.
I don’t mean to say that you don’t have any belief in the team but rather think that they are thinking too shortsided and not expecting LMA to come back with a ton more post moves, Oden to get his athleticism back or Nic to advance his O game
I posted this a while ago and you have probably heard this from me before, but it is true.
PG is the least important position on a championship team just ask Steve Kerr, BJ Armstrong, Kenny Smith, Derek Fisher, Jason Williams, and Avery Johnson all of whom were solid to good PGs but have a combined 17 rings.
Contrast them with the 10 best PGs of all time and they only have 18 rings
Magic=5 w/ Kareeem
Stockton=0
Kidd=0
Nash=0
Cousey=6 w/ Russell
Oscar=1 w/Kareem
Isiah=2
Frazier=2
Archibald=1
Payton=1 bench warmer behind Williams
What does that say about how important a PG is to a championship team?
You would not disagree with me that the TEAM is the most important part.
“Well yeah those teams had Hakeem, Duncan, Shaq, k*be, and MJ!!”
Well yeah but Roy is already along those lines in his young career, and LMA and Oden have the chance to develop into those accessory type players as well.
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
by SpyderRyder on May 26, 2009 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I am clearly significantly less bullish on Roy, LMA and Oden than you are
Roy is great, but has a long way to go to be an all timer.
You know my thoughts on LMA.
Oden could be great but who knows this for sure?
so you are the pessamist
I forgot that. The thing is if LMA and Oden do not come into the shape they can the PG does not matter as we will not win a championship.
I would be willing to put $$ that CP3 as a starting PG will never win a championship.
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
Depends
Does CP3 get better help than West ever? CP3 could go to half a dozen teams and that team would instantly be a title favorite. You can say this about maybe 3-4 guys in the NBA.
He could go to a half dozen teams . . .
in a perfect world. It’s all heresay. Star players don’tmove from team to team anymore, except the very occasionalgiveaway (KG for Al Jeff+) or even swap (AI for Billups). In thesecases the players are usually at the end of their career. It gets tiring to listen to the video game GM’s who blather onabout getting this star or that star, when common sense says it willnever happen. Please quit with the unrealistic expectations. Jscot and I predicted 55-27 before the season and stuck to it allseason while many disagreed. That prediction followed my 40 to42 winprediction from 07-08. Much of those predictions were based on the growth of BRoy & Smooth, but just as much on solid veterans who playwithin themselves and lead by example, ie Steve Blake & Joel P. Blake is an average defender, but as was previously stated, the handcheck rules and small, very quick PG’s give all teams trouble. That’s whyTony Parker was in the top three in the NBA recently in points in the paint.Without the ability to hand check above the FT line, the pick & roll/slip isalmost impossible to stop with those PG types.
It's GO time !
by walkoff41 on May 27, 2009 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I predicted 55 wins, too. I have a very smart dartboard.
Travis, Sergio, and the #24 pick for CP3. The Hornets will jump at that. You can thank me later.
by MiledAnimal on May 27, 2009 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Hmmmm . . .
I love Baseball darts, but not prediction darts !
P.S. – CP3’s jock perhaps.
It's GO time !
Huh?
Nothing you said even remotely discusses my point. If you want to go off on some rant don’t reply to me to do it please.
I think his point
was that guys like CP3 don’t move, so saying that IF he moved it would make that team a title contender is kind of moot. Any team he would move to would have to give up too much of their own talent to make it work. Sure the Billups for AI thing worked out, but who is the AI on the Blazers, for example, that we would be willing to give up to get a CP3-type?
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
What was that? I guess I lost the point, too
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
Spyder said CP3 would never win a title as a starter
I disagreed, asking if CP3 could ever get better help. I then used an example (CP3 moving) of what would happen if he got better help. Obviously the more likely scenario is help coming to him, but it was easier to use the example of CP3 moving than one of a gajillion choices of players coming to NO.
Also, Stars DO move all the time. Usually for other star caliber players, but it’s not unfathomable for West/Something to get traded for a different star if a team is in blowup mode. Kobe and Duncan have stayed with their original teams for 10+ years… not too many other stars have.
In general . . .
my comments were about the many commenters who
continually propose, “Let’s get Deron Williams or Tayshaun
Prince or LeBron James, etc”. Don’t let my comments get you
down, as I just happened to follow that thread and chime in there.
I’m generally pretty busy, so pretty selective in what I read & when to
respond. As a long time athlete & coach, I’m sometimes struck about
the unrealistic expectations and impatience of some fans. I don’t
disagree with your point, just that it very rarely happens except in video
games.
It's GO time !
Roy is much better than anyone we've had since Walton
I’ve only seen a few players in my lifetime that had his ability to
- consistently
If he doesn’t have injury problems that derail him, he is clearly the kind of special player that caries teams to championships.
Pg Observation
Tony Parker – 3 Rings(Ginobli/Bowen/Duncan)
Isiah Thomas – 2 Rings(Dumars/Aguirre/Rodman/Laimbeer)
Rajon Rondo – 1 Ring(Allen/Pierce/KG)
None of them shoot the 3 well.
All of them can attack the basket, pass, defend & rebound. All of them had great players surrounding them.
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 26, 2009 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions
This argument is silly.
You forgot a few by the way.
Magic Johnson: 5 titles
Bob Cousy: 6 titles
Oscar Robertson: 1 title
Walt Frazier: 2 titles
Isaiah Thomas: 2 titles
Tiny Archibald: 1 title
Tony Parker: 3 titles
It’s very convenient how you left out 6 of the greatest point guards of all time and only included the ones who hadn’t won a championship.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on May 26, 2009 6:55 PM PDT up reply actions
?
I had all those except parker…
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dailydime-GreatestPointGuards
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
I'm an idiot.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on May 26, 2009 8:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Still...
I disagree with the idea that Blake is good enough.
All the role players you list are better role players than Blake. Steve Kerr, BJ Armstrong, Kenny Smith, Derek Fisher, Jason Williams, and Avery Johnson? Would you take Blake over any of them?
B.J Armstrong was an All-Star and led the league in 3 point%. Steve Kerr holds the all time record for 3 point shooting in a season at 52% and for a career at 45%. Kenny Smith is the all time Rockets leader in 3 point %.
Comparing any of them to Blake is crazy. Derrick Fisher played great defense earlier in his career, although now he’s probably closer to Blake’s level. Jason Williams is borderline but I would still take him over Blake in his prime. Avery Johnson won one title against a Knicks team that featured Charlie Ward at PG.
I’m worried about the Blazers winning a single Championship period. With Blake at the helm I seriously doubt they even make the finals.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on May 26, 2009 11:46 PM PDT up reply actions
They might be slightly better than Blake
Not enough to outright stop Portland from winning a title. Could we improve at the PG? Obviously. But we are not doomed if we never get someone better than Blake, we’d just need LMA/Roy/Oden to be a little bit better each.
Absolutely right
An improved Oden + Blake would be better than a bad or injured Oden + a star PG. Blake is still the “glue guy” who shoots well and makes the right passes. He isn’t a star but he does fit the team and make the team better. If people think “team” and not “star PG,” they might not be so unhappy with Blake.
If we also get improvement by any combination of Bayless, Batum and Webster, then the whole team becomes even more intimidating, with or without Blake at the helm.
Sticking up for Travis Outlaw since 2008 and Steve Blake since last week..
by Kaboomm on May 27, 2009 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I disagree.
I think we are absolutely doomed if we never get someone better than Blake. Saying they are “slightly” better than Blake is a bit of an understatement.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on May 27, 2009 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Not really
Most of those guys were not that great. They did certain things well, but so does Blake. Even if you argue that they were all better than Blake (which I question with Williams and Johnson) the difference isn’t astronomical.
Blake stays but not as a starter
I agree that we are not doomed if we don’t upgrade Blake, but I think we are doomed if we don’t upgrade at PG. I don’t see our rookie phenom (not) Bayless ever growing into a PG of the type described above, and so I think we either need Blake to stay the starter with a better backup, or, more logically, get a PG that is at least as good as Blake to be the starter, allowing Blake to be one of the best backup PGs in the league. Like the Oden/Przybilla combo, we could deal with having Blake’s numbers extrapolated out to 48 per game, especially if the other half of the tandem is a stronger defender, ala Hinrich.
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
Here's the thing
I agree that upgrading Blake improves our chances for a title this is pretty obvious.
I disgaree with the people that think it is impossible to win a title with Blake starting. It’s harder yes, but saying “we CAN’T win a title because of this one guy” seems somewhat ignorant to me.
I agree (sort of)
I think it IS true, though, that we can’t win a championship unless our PG play improves, whether by upgrading Blake, or replacing his backups, or (and I see this as the least likely) by turning Bayless into an actual PG.
Kermit on the inbounds play, inbounds....
BATES at the horn, HE SCORES!! HE SCORES!!!!
And they are all over Billy Ray Bates! My, oh my!!!
Yeah the backup thing is an issue
Although even that doesn’t completely rule us out. For example, our PG play wasn’t stellar against Houston, but we still win that series if we simply have some rebounding in game 3 or a center that could compete with Yao.
That’s not an NBA title of course, just saying that other things could improve. Again, I’m all for upgrading our PG and moving Blake to the backup spot, or if that fails upgrading our backup PG, but it’s not the end of the world if people don’t. It’s an extreme example again, but if Howard, Duncan, Lebron, Roy are your other 4 guys, it doesn’t matter if Telfair and Taureen Green are your PGs, you win titles.
what if
we wouldn’t like him when he’s angry?
BLAKE SMASH! BLAKE SHOOT!
BLAKE NO PENETRATE!
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
Quick! Duck!
Watch out for that chair! And here comes another one!!
That's not Blake
That’s Bobby Knight. – Elgin
VENTURA: It's drowning. It gives you the complete sensation that you are drowning. It is no good, because you -- I'll put it to you this way, you give me a waterboard, Dick Cheney and one hour, and I'll have him confess to the Sharon Tate murders.
Question
How many “elite” PGs are playing in the Conference Finals right now?
And no, Mo Williams is not an elite nor even a “good” PG by the way he has played in the ECF.
Founder of the "Crash Batumcoot" Movement.
by damir on May 26, 2009 4:44 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
2 that are significantly better than Blake
2 that play with Kobe Bryant and Dwight Howard that are slightly better than Blake.
Mo Williams?
Significantly better than Blake?
In what area?
This is first-round Blake vs ECF Mo Williams:
FG%? Sorry, Blake shot 49% to Mo’s 32%.
3PT%? Sorry, Blake shot 42% to Mo’s 25%.
AST? Sorry, Blake had 6.2 to Mo’s 4.2.
TO? Sorry, Blake had 1.5 to Mo’s 3.
And you can’t tell me that Rafer Alston is some lock-down defender. Try and I’ll laugh at you.
And these numbers? Persistent throughout Mo’s entire playoffs. Dude’s supposed to be a scorer, too, yet he’s bricking shots left and right like his name was Rafer Alston. You can take Mo’s overrated 15PPG/4APG/3TOPG in the playoffs. I’ll take Blake’s ultra-efficient 10PPG and 6APG with the low turnovers in similar minutes at half of the cost.
Mo Williams is quickly turning into the Jamaal Magloire of PGs.
Rafer and Fisher? Man, don’t make me look up what they are doing in the playoffs.
Founder of the "Crash Batumcoot" Movement.
by damir on May 26, 2009 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
BTW
Those aren’t just minute differences either. One guy is putting up differences that are double-digit percentage points higher.
Founder of the "Crash Batumcoot" Movement.
Thats nice.
To compare a playoff series…
Last 5 Years:
Mo:
14.92 PPG, 5.3 APG, 3.44 RPG, 1.04 SPG, 2.46 TOPG
Blake:
7.6 PPG, 4.15 APG, 2.14 RPG, .65 SPG, 1.31 TOPG.
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 26, 2009 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Also factor in that Mo is 3 years younger.
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 26, 2009 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions
For someone that is "significantly better"
He sure as hell isn’t playing like it in these playoffs. Unless you want me to believe that Will Bynum, Mike Bibby, and Rafer Alston are world-class defensive PGs.
Founder of the "Crash Batumcoot" Movement.
Isn't this his first playoffs?
Blazer fans are quick to blame the struggles on being playoff virgins, but it isn’t a two way street?
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 26, 2009 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions
You must be referring to
The 15mpg in 5 games, in the 05-06 season.
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 26, 2009 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Uh Dane, 15 mpg is fairly significant minutes.
Not starter’s minutes, but certainly not end of the bench, garbarge time only minutes.
hakkaa päälle !
Game 6 was bad, too
after the first quarter. Blake wasn’t completely to blame for the 2nd quarter meltdown in game 6, but Steve had a dreadful series-clinching game by anyone’s measurement
Playoff virgins? That’s a good one. Nate said after the series that it took the players “about a game” to get their feet under them (meaning they played better in game 2 at home and game 4 in Houston, after getting themselves acclimated)
Maybe it would’ve been better for the virgin Blazers to play their first playoff series opening up on the road? They could’ve taken a dump in game 1 and no one would’ve panicked, much. Then shown improvement in game 2 but still came “home” 0-2, won games 3-4 and been 2-2 going into the 5th game instead of 3-1? (You never know, by then they might’ve had the momentum to steal a game in Houston.)
But we’ll never know. It’s a shame Portland had to face the Rockets in round 1. Stupid Hornets for letting the Spurs win that last regular season game! NOLA deserves to get fleeced by KP (CP3/West deal…)
I believe
In the basketball gods (and the baseball gods, etc)
But David Stern and his refs still have veto power. Curse them!
And the Hornets have made so many bad payroll decisions they “deserve” to be fleeced by KP (“never give a sucker an even break”)
Words to live by from WC Fields, or was it PT Barnum?
Coach of the year...Yeah right
That’s not on Mo, it’s on the Coach who gives the ball to Lebron and says “Save me”
My avatar is 3 years into the future for sure...
There should be a recount for coty
after the Cavs got bounced out of the playoffs
Mike Brown: “can we have a do over?”
i wonder what mo william's numbers would be like when he has to play next to AI
"There are a few teams you have to watch out for in the fourth quarter."
"Yeah, but Portland definitely is not one of them."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters at the end of the third quarter with the Hornets leading 74-59. Portland later ends up winning 97-89.
"They don't mind him shooting that shot at all. Rudy Fernandez is not that great of a 3pt shooter."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters right after a Rudy Fernandez missed 3pter. Rudy Fernandez finished the game with three 3pters on six attempts.
by Tofu Anonymous on May 26, 2009 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I wonder what AI's numbers would look like
if he had a good post throughout his entire career.
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 26, 2009 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions
probably the same.
AI doesn’t care who’s playing with him.
"There are a few teams you have to watch out for in the fourth quarter."
"Yeah, but Portland definitely is not one of them."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters at the end of the third quarter with the Hornets leading 74-59. Portland later ends up winning 97-89.
"They don't mind him shooting that shot at all. Rudy Fernandez is not that great of a 3pt shooter."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters right after a Rudy Fernandez missed 3pter. Rudy Fernandez finished the game with three 3pters on six attempts.
by Tofu Anonymous on May 27, 2009 12:19 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Shoot first.
Ask who was open second. That’s the way Money Bagz rolls.
My favorite teams are the Blazers and any team that is playing the Lakers.
by OCBlazerFan1 on May 27, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Just a note:
When making player comparisons, they usually can’t be done in a vacuum.
Mo Williams is a scoring PG. That was how he wanted to play in Milwaukee and why Cleveland acquired him. He works in Cleveland most likely because James does a lot of the ball handling, meaning Mo doesn’t have to initiate the offense.
Steve Blake is not asked to be Portland’s #2 scoring threat.
And if you are going to give averages per game, you should include average minutes per game to give some perspective.
Personally, I think Williams can light it up. But a large number of guys in the NBA can do that. Hell, Steve Blake can from time to time. But do I want Mo Williams on the Blazers in place of Steve Blake. No. Never. Nt in a million years. (I’d rather sleep with a St Bernard first.)
hakkaa päälle !
You don't think a scoring PG can help the Blazers?
Steve Blake is not asked to be a scoring PG because he’s not capable of being that. However, another scoring threat clearly would have helped against Houston. Your logic in that post makes no sense.
What I think is that the best teams win games ...
… and that the NBA is not about assembling the best fantasy roster. Yes you have to acquire talent. But it is every bit as important, possibly more so, to maximize the talent you have and get them working as a unit.
So sure, having a PG that can get his points any time is nice. But the flip side of that coin is that such PG’s usually have a scorer’s mentality and are not often good at sublimating their game to the benefit of the entire team. In the Olympics maybe. But night in and night out in the NBA, not likely.
I am not saying that Steve Blake is the best PG in the league or even top 10 or 12. I am saying that he doesn’t have to be for Portland to be successful and that it is more important to have a Blake who can fill his role, then it is to have someone who wants to create his own.
hakkaa päälle !
There are more talented versions of Steve Blake out there
Players that can create for themselves if need be, something Blake can’t do. It opens up the game for other players if the point guard is at least a threat to take it into the paint. Also, Blake isn’t a good defender, and that’s an easy area for improvement. Steve Blake is not the only guy willing to defer to Brandon, there are plenty of PG’s willing to come to this team, and they’d do so knowing they’re playing next to Roy.
Plenty of PG's willing to come to Portland?
Sure, either for lots of money or because they do not currently have an NBA job.
Besides, it is not about wanting to come to Portland. It is about who is available and at what price. That winnows the options down considerably (not that it stops the fantasy GM wannabe’s from proposing trades and solutions at PG ad nauseum).
For some reason I tend to be of the opinion that Pritchard and Nate are better judges of talent and what this team needs than anyone on this site. If they decide that having Steve Blake as the starting PG going into next season is ok, I certainly am not going to gnash my teeth and rend my garments. And sure as shooting I’m not going to come to BE and try to impress people with my knowledge of basketball by telling anyone who wants to listen what a mistake it is to keep Blake and not make a move.
As for what Steve Blake can and can’t do – I offer that a lot of us still don’t really know the answers to that. McMillan has from day one been bringing this team along according to a plan. That plan appears to be built on being able to execute, starting with the basics and working up from that. Perhaps one reason he seems to appreciate Steve Blake is that Blake understands what Nate is doing and is playing within his plan, rather than trying to show what he can do or to force the action.
hakkaa päälle !
yeah we have Roy, LMA and Oden next year
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
Dennis Rodman is the ideal backup PF -
Now where the heck are we going to find the next Rodman? Draft? Free Agency? Over Seas?
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
Damion James is the best I see in the draft for us.
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 26, 2009 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Serge Ibaka from Oklahoma City.......
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Serge-Ibaka-1302/
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 26, 2009 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm sure he has outstanding Child Support bills.
But it looks like one will be coming off his books. From Wikipedia:
His oldest son, Shawn Kemp Jr., committed to play basketball for the University of Alabama for the 2009 season10. Shawn Jr, a graduate of Cherokee High School in Canton, Georgia is a 6’9" 220 pound Center. He was named as an alternate in the 2009 McDonald’s High School All-American Classic. Shawn Jr was heavily recruited by University of Kentucky, University of Florida, Alabama, and Indiana.
Wondering what moves Pritchard would make to land me a date in the off-season. Preferably one with tickets.
Improved scoring
from the big guy, bringing in a backup PF that can notch a few, getting a scoring boost from Martell and getting a few more reliable points at the line from Bayless and Batum will eliminate the need for increased scoring from Blake. You can book it. The game will open up even more for Blake and he will continue to improve as he has every year. Do you really believe KP is going to trade away a smart, reliable and excellent shooter? And for what and at what price. We’ll be able to put our money into a couple of sturdy veteran forwards we really need. That, and an improved defensive posture from GO will solve a lot of the defensive problems people lay on Blake. Every PG in the league gets beat off the dribble every night. Why should Blake take the blame for a league standard. He takes a few off the dribble himself every game. Finally, it seems like the jump from Blake to a top 10 PG in the league will cost more than the team can bear, either by tearing apart the core or by breaking the business model needed to prosper and survive in this small Portland market. We have all the shooting and ball handling we will need for a few years. What we need now more than anything is a big veteran forward who can defend the rim and rebound. Even the best PG struggles against that.
yup
I keep telling people, with the new handcheck rules and the profusion of small quick PGs in the league, PG D is an oxymoron. If anything Bayless trues too hard and that is why he gets called for so many fouls. If he were a rook back in the 80s, we would be t\ talking about the next GP defensively.
Even Blake with all his supposed PG D weaknesses is not that far off of the best PG D’ers in the league. The thing is that he cannot or will not penetrate to get to the rim, which holds him back from being that elite PG. Could you imagine if Blake could go up and absorb contact and lay the ball in the lane? He would be P-E-R-F-E-C-T!!
that is why Bayless is not going anywhere as he can do that and with some game time reps, he shold be bombing away from 3pt as well as he was a 40% shooter in college.
Right now as I type this post Bayless has already shot 1000 3pt shots.
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
I'm sure I saw some drives to the hole from Blakey this past season
Granted, some were on fast breaks, but I recall seeing Steve drive to the rim several times over the last season. Granted, he’s no BRex, but he’s not built the same and that isn’t his meat & potatoes.
I’d love to see some PG cross-pollenation in the off season, where Bayless helps Blake with his inside game and defense and Blake helps Rex with his shot and assists. Then we’d have both GregZilla and BlakeRex.
by DonkeyShins on May 27, 2009 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes you did
One awesome thing Blake did semi-regularly was drive into the paint and then dump the ball to Przybilla or Oden under the basket. It was sweet.
I would LOVE to see better interior passing next year. That might have been the solution to Yao — instead of driving in and getting blocked or kicking back out, drive in, draw Yao forward, and pass to Pryz/Oden/LMA underneath. I think there were a lot of points to be had there.
Sticking up for Travis Outlaw since 2008 and Steve Blake since last week..
so you're saying you want Mike Conley
by as11osu on May 27, 2009 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'd be excited to get Conley
Although I like Blake.
Sticking up for Travis Outlaw since 2008 and Steve Blake since last week..
Conley/Bayless
is a disgustingly talented duo at the 1.
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 28, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions
So what are the traits we are looking for in a PG?
I’m thinking:
3pt%
Defense
Ast/TO ratio
Correct Age
Big
Fast (I know those last two may be mutually exclusive)
Team Player
Any Others? And how does one measure defense? Defensive Win Shares? Any better ideas? And is there a place/stat/anything that measures quickness among NBA Players? I’m thinking of making a post, but I want some input before I do, and this is what this post is kind of getting at. I want to be able to measure all these things against each other to see if the original poster is right or not.
Of all the things that can be expressed in the printed word – love, hate, fear, joy – true humor is the one that is the most difficult of all. Sarcasm, for example, is an art of delicate subtlety. Yet too many people wield it as a bulldozer – loud, smelly, ugly, and destructive – and think they are being funny.
Actually watching the games :)
But leave that up to KP & Crew.
You can look at +/- PER Vs players of the same position, but that is not always a good method. Because often, it is misleading. Depending on how good the defenders on the block are, in can inflate/overrate… Or Under rate, because a player doesn’t have a reliable defender on the post.
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 26, 2009 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, watching games is good.
But statistics are a necessary evil. It’s an attempt to try and take this debate from the subjective to the objective. And statistics give the (vague) semblance of that.
Of all the things that can be expressed in the printed word – love, hate, fear, joy – true humor is the one that is the most difficult of all. Sarcasm, for example, is an art of delicate subtlety. Yet too many people wield it as a bulldozer – loud, smelly, ugly, and destructive – and think they are being funny.
I like your attitude.
It is smart to lurk around for a while to see how some of the “veterans” do it before creating your own fanpost. Then, when that day finally comes, and you have an idea for one, and you’re confident that you can pull it off, you’ll be ready to swim with the “big fish”. Don’t worry too much about being criticized. Well-meaning people might suggest a turn of phrase you hadn’t considered or point out a few typos, and sometimes they may flat-out disagree with your main point. But it’s all part of the learning experience here on Blazers Edge. You’ll be glad you took the plunge!
by CatMan2 on May 27, 2009 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Um, I've been here for a couple of years now.
But it’s always good to set an example for the new guys.
Of all the things that can be expressed in the printed word – love, hate, fear, joy – true humor is the one that is the most difficult of all. Sarcasm, for example, is an art of delicate subtlety. Yet too many people wield it as a bulldozer – loud, smelly, ugly, and destructive – and think they are being funny.
Hello-T-Darkstar
Wel-come-to-the-Edge
"You're welcome friend
I love you."
- Tom "Dragline" inHawaii
by 92wastheyear on May 27, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I like your sig, too.
Of all the things that can be expressed in the printed word – love, hate, fear, joy – true humor is the one that is the most difficult of all. Sarcasm, for example, is an art of delicate subtlety. Yet too many people wield it as a bulldozer – loud, smelly, ugly, and destructive – and think they are being funny.
by CatMan2 on May 27, 2009 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
That was good sarcasm. Subtle enough to miss. Obvious enough to make me feel silly for missing it.
+1 for you.
Of all the things that can be expressed in the printed word – love, hate, fear, joy – true humor is the one that is the most difficult of all. Sarcasm, for example, is an art of delicate subtlety. Yet too many people wield it as a bulldozer – loud, smelly, ugly, and destructive – and think they are being funny.
you're so old you're the new you
how does it feel to be back in style again?
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
Trade outlaw for conley
and sign Trevor Ariza and Brandon bass!!
Oden...Aldridge...Roy.....THE REAL BIG THREE
Blake, trade him...
… I mean, what has he ever done on the basketball floor? Unless you think getting his name on some NCAA National Championship trophy … and having the 5th most career assists in NCAA history count for anything. Clearly, a player of his meager accomplishments has no place on a team with championships on its mind. And clearly, since Blake can’t guard Aaron Brooks – like reputedly most good point guards can – then what good is he? I mean, just because Brooks has shown the ability to be too quick for ANYBODY to defend, why shouldn’t blake be able to? The slacker.
Yeah, what we really need is a point guard who will look to score first, since nobody else on the team can score. Blake is always trying to get his team mates involved. What’s up with that? Yeah, bring us Allen Iverson. Then we’ll show ’em some team work!
by twp63 on May 26, 2009 7:30 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Let's bring Juan Dixon back, too
he’s got an NCAA championship trophy AND was the most outstanding player in the tournament. Clearly, a player of his accomplishments is destined for success in the NBA. What did that bum Brandon Roy ever accomplish in college? A couple sweet sixteens? No chance he’ll do anything at the NBA. I mean, look at Tim Duncan, the guy never won squat in the tourney, which is obviously the best barometer for NBA success out there.
Just sayin'
Blake isn’t the no-talent player that everyone here seems to think. Steady counts for a lot.
"Steady counts for a lot."
+1.
Try unsteady for a while and see how you like it.
Sticking up for Travis Outlaw since 2008 and Steve Blake since last week..
And his name is...
Sebastian Telfair…or Isaiah Rider…or…or…
You get the point.
by DonkeyShins on May 27, 2009 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Rafer Alston is tearing up Mo Williams right now
… and Mo’s shooting 5-15 and has 1 assist. Clearly, what a great PG. The Blazers should be jealous.
Founder of the "Crash Batumcoot" Movement.
Rafer would be good for the Blazers
We wouldnt really need to over pay for him. Give the Magic Trout and Blake and maybe a draft pick and get Rafer and J.J. Redick. It gives us a PG who can push the ball up the floor, defend and hit the 3. With this deal we can keep Bayless and groom him to be our PG. We could then work out a deal to get a veteran SF. Finally get Richard Jefferson.
Alston
Roy
Jefferson
Aldridge
Przybilla
Rafer?
Oh please no stay away.
This dude was so unwelcome in Toronto that they chose to bring in that crazy dude Mike James to replace him.
Founder of the "Crash Batumcoot" Movement.
Mike James is a baller
Don’t be a hater.
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 26, 2009 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions
horrible as always
Yeah
Blake>Alston
Travis>Reddick
Just what we need another SG so we will have Roy, Rudy, Bellinelli, Reddick and Tony Allen as well right? And Powe, McDyess, LMA, and Travis @ the 4 as well.
Not to mention we could of had Jefferson for a song but KP said no. Thank god he is in charge.
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
by SpyderRyder on May 26, 2009 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I like Steve Blake. The main problem I see with him is
he sometimes makes bad decisions or gets flustered under pressure. For example, he has had trouble running fast breaks and inbounding the ball in critical situations, and has bricked some important free throws. On the other hand, he has certainly helped the Blazers win a number of games with his 3’s and some nice setups of the other guys.
I look at these things slightly differently
He sometimes makes bad decisions.
Almost never.
He has had trouble running fast breaks.
Absolutely true. However, Roy is not a fast break player either, which means it’s a slow backcourt no matter what you do. Even with a different point guard, your fast break is basically Batum + Aldridge, or nothing.
He has bricked some important free throws.
Once! It was a freak occurrence. So have other people, including Roy.
Sticking up for Travis Outlaw since 2008 and Steve Blake since last week..
What I mean by trouble running fast breaks
has to do with decision making. Roy does not make bad decisions with the ball. His turn overs are generally due to shaky execution, which happens to everybody at times. But Roy knows when to take a shot, when to pass off, and who is going to get the best opportunity to score. It’s not necessarily the case that Steve can’t do those kinds of computations on the fly, but I think he gets flustered or starts thinking too much or something.
I’m willing to concede you’re right about the free throws: my memory ain’t what it used to be. I would just summarize my point by saying that, if you have a scale from one to ten on which to measure a player’s “clutchness”, then Brandon and Travis are in the 7 to 10 range, and Steve is more toward to the other end of the scale. Just my opinion, and I’d like to be proven wrong about this …
Blake is just cautious
and he knows his coach…that low turnover to assist ratio is Blake’s objective, keeps him overly cautious at times…
Goodbye Deke. The NBA will miss Mt. Mutombo
Support families in crisis in Portland www.give10tell10.org
Blake is good at the kick-ahead lob pass
especially when LMA has beaten his defender downcourt
Steve is not good at taking the ball to the hole and finishing, unless there’s no defender back
Where did that uniform come from?
My favorite teams are the Blazers and any team that is playing the Lakers.
by OCBlazerFan1 on May 27, 2009 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
I hate those uni's
Stupid St Patty’s day.
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
by iDea on May 27, 2009 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
You sure you want to start tanglin' with the Irish ???
Generally not a good thing to do for no good reason. … :-)
Of course if you LIKE fightin…..
The tale of the 1996-1997 Houston Rockets
As much talk as there’s been about not needing more than a serviceable PG when you have all star caliber guys at other positions, I’d like to take a moment to remember one guy who I’m shocked hasn’t come up before: one Mr. Matt Maloney.
First, a little background. Coming off disappointing seasons, the Rockets and Charles Barkley decided that their paths needed crossing. The Rockets were only one season removed from winning the ‘95 title behind the reunited Phi Slamma Jamma duo of Clyde and Hakeem, who both were getting long in the tooth (both were 34 in 1996-1997), but still all-stars/all nba players (Hakeem was 1st team all NBA that season). Barkley was only a year younger, but likewise still an all star, and coming off a 3rd team all-NBA year, so it’s not like we’re talking about Gary Payton and Karl Malone to the Lakers here.
The price was steep: Cassell, Horry, Mark Bryant, and Chucky Brown; Houston’s starting PG, and 6th man. Still, the Rockets still had a clutch defensive minded swing man to start alongside their big three (Mario Elie), a superb reserve defensive center (Kevin Willis), along with a couple other decent backups (Matt Bullard and Othella Harrington). Surely, they thought, anyone could play PG next to two all stars, the best center in the league, and a defensive swing man.
Enter Matt Maloney. The Steve Blake similarities are fairly obvious, hence my reasoning here. And, for most of the year, the Rockets got by in spite of Maloney. 57 wins, tied for the second best record in the west. And through the first couple rounds of the playoffs, they got by, too, including a 7 game series win against Gary Payton and Shawn Kemp.
Then, the Rockets ran into the Utah Jazz, led by a 34 year old Stockton and the season MVP Karl Malone (an idiotic choice with MJ in the league). There, Stockton simply eviscerated Maloney, shooting better than 50% from the field and having his best playoff game ever in his career in game 2, getting to the line 12 times (making them all), dishing out 12 assists, grabbing 8 boards, and scoring 26 points. Despite Hakeem having an absolutely monster series, Barkley playing Malone to a standstill until the last two games, and Clyde playing a solid series, the Rockets didn’t have enough juice to overcome the absolute domination of Stockton at the PG spot.
Now, the Rockets probably wouldn’t have won the title that year anyways, with MJ awaiting them in the finals, but my point is that with Maloney, they never had the chance. For every team that succeeds despite mediocre PG play, there’s a team like that Houston team that never has a chance because they get slaughtered in the PG matchup.
I’m not saying we can’t win with Blake, but as we saw with those Rockets, the presence of multiple other all star level players doesn’t guarantee making up for a guy’s deficiencies.
So you're suggesting
that Maloney cost them a trip to the finals, or that winning the WCF is the only acceptable outcome for a good team, or that getting beat by one of the best point guards in history is a weakness. The analogy is intersting except that we haven’t won a championship, we haven’t won the WCF, we haven’t got out of the 1st round and it’s clear it had nothing to do with Blake. Tony Parker din’t get out of the 1st round so he’s a stinker, right.
Right, you can compare a guy with three titles to Steve Blake and Matt Maloney
because he didn’t make it out of the first round once while the other two stars on his team were both hurt, while this was the farthest the Rockets ever got with Maloney.
My point is, that it’s a common talking point here that we can throw chopped liver out at point playing alongside Roy, Oden, and LaMarcus, and that won’t prevent us from winning a title, when Maloney is a clear example of a team having three all stars (and the best center in the game that year), but missing out on a finals trip because they were absolutely murdered at the point. Does anyone really think that Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Tony Parker, or Billups can’t do to a 30-31 year old Blake what a 34-year-old Stockton did to Matt Maloney that year? What about Rondo, or Derrick Rose if we make it to the finals?
And sure, if we’re happy with just making it to the WCF, there’s absolutely no doubt in my mind that Blake is good enough to be that guy. And yes, getting beat by a 34 year old Stockton when your center is Hakeem playing at All-NBA first team levels is a weakness. It’s not like we have an easier road of things with Chris Paul, Deron Williams, and Parker all entering their primes, and Billups on the verge of leaving his. And if you were to conduct a poll of every poster here, I’d imagine there’d be a fair amount of disappointment if the core of this team never made the finals.
Getting demolished at PG might not kill you, but the Rockets demonstrated that it can, which no one here really mentions.
Yah but.....
…..how many titles did Stockton end up winning? 2 Finals appearences ..played with 2 other Allstars (Malone and Hornecek) no titles. Who was Chi’s point guard for those teams….Kerr?
"You're welcome friend
I love you."
- Tom "Dragline" inHawaii
by 92wastheyear on May 27, 2009 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Let me settle this once and for all
Steve Kerr was a BACK-UP. He started 30 games in his entire career and never played more than 20 mpg in the playoffs a single year. I don’t think a single poster here would say that we couldn’t win a title with Blake playing the same role that Steve Kerr played on those Bulls teams. Ron Harper, who was one of the 5 best defenders in the the league at the point started for the Bulls in their second three-peat. Even BJ Armstrong, the other maligned Bulls PG that people love to throw about here was an All star exactly as many times as Hornacek was (Hornacek’s one all star year being 5 years before the playoff year I’m talking about).
Equating Hornacek who had only been to one all star game 5 years before with Barkley, Clyde and Hakeem who were all multiple year all stars and made the team that year is like saying the Jazz should be the best team in the west because Deron Williams gets to play along three all stars (Okur, AK47, Boozer: yes, all of them have made the team).
Regardless, the reason Stockton didn’t win a title isn’t because elite PGs don’t win titles, but because for his entire career, he had almost no help alongside Malone, and played his entire career at the same time as the greatest PG ever, and the greatest player ever. Maybe if he could have guarded Hakeem in 94 and 95, they would have won the title, but I have a tough time pinning that on Stockton.
I’m not even talking about PG purity, or that pointless debate, just in terms of quality of the player. Sure, Kidd and Stockton never won titles, but Isiah and Billups did. You could really pick out any position and find a truckload of all stars who never won titles, but that doesn’t mean you can just stick anyone there and win a title.
To win a title you have to get to the finals first, and I’d rather not be terrified every year of Tony Parker/Chris Paul/Deron Williams going nova on Blake and stealing a series, because we all wanted to keep the steady guy around.
Personally that doesn't settle a thing for me
Stockton=HOFer
Harper, Kerr, Armstrong, Casell, Kenny Smith et al = Not HOFers
Basically HOF PG not required for title…and that is settled
"You're welcome friend
I love you."
- Tom "Dragline" inHawaii
by 92wastheyear on May 27, 2009 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions
This debate is silly
You can win a title with a weakpoint at ANY position. The position you least like want to be weak at is Center, followed by the SG spot if history is any indication. I’d rather have a Blake caliber PG and a Roy caliber SG than a Blake caliber SG and a Roy caliber PG.
That said, you can’t find any team in the last 30 years that had 5 top 10 starters at their positions with the exception of maybe the Pistons.
the importance of an SG is somewhat overrated
due to the best player in history being a shooting guard. Judging by recent history, the most important piece of any title team is having one of the top 5 big men in the league during the playoffs. Only one team in the last ten years(Miami, and that’s debatable with Shaq) was able to win a title without one. And yes, Sheed in 2004 qualifies as a top 5 big man, check out the Pistons defensive splits over the last two months if you don’t believe me.
I’m not saying that we need a top 10 PG to win a title, but there’s a big gap between Blake and being a top 10 PG. As I was trying to point out originally with my story about the Rockets, not every team with multiple all stars can overcome poor PG play. Unless Brandon somehow exceeds even what the most optimistic of us think he’ll be, we won’t have a player nearly as good as any of the guys that those lesser PGs piggybacked onto a title with (Hakeem, Jordan, Duncan, Shaq). Given that assumption, I find it hard to believe that we could win a title with a guy who’s either much worse than some of the PGs they carried (Cassell, Harper), or about the same as (Kerr, the Jet).
by Royster on May 27, 2009 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Royster
your knowledge is top shelf and your argument in this thread is stellar. I just want to say you really nailed this point and put it to bed. Blake as a backup = acceptable, as a starter = not an option for a championship team.
"Death is not final," Gita says. "If any man thinks that he slays, and if another thinks that he is slain, neither knows the truth. The Eternal in man cannot kill: the Eternal in man cannot die. The soul in man is neither born nor does it die. Weapons cannot cut it; fire cannot burn it; water cannot drown it.
The Bhagavad Gita
to be honest, I came down harder on Blake than I meant to
I didn’t mean to say that there’s absolutely no way that we could win a title with Blake, but it’s not something I’d count on.
We’re essentially guaranteed to run into at least two of Billups, Parker, Williams or Paul in the WC playoffs every year from now on (although after a couple years you can probably swap Billups out for Brooks or Westbrook/Rubio), and unless their teams have massive injury problems every year like we did this year, I’m not sure I’d bet on us being able to navigate that path every year without one of them slaughtering Blake to the point that Brandon, Oden and Aldridge can’t make up for the difference (especially since all of them except Billups will only continue to improve).
Parker, Williams, Paul didn't really hurt us this year
Chris Paul (yearly avg 23pts / 11ast): 17pts / 9ast, 16pts / 6ast, 17pts / 11ast, 12pts / 13ast
Tony Parker (yearly avg 22pts / 7ast): 24pts / 11ast, 39pts / 9ast, 15pts / 4ast, 17pts / 7ast
Deron Williams (yearly avg 19pts / 11ast): 14pts / 11ast, 35pts / 5ast , 16pts / 8ast
No one in this league is going to stop these guys 100% of the time. They will get there’s and it doesn’t do much good focusing on this argument “Who is the Parker, Williams, Paul stopper” “Anything less is not acceptable”. No one will meet your expectations, especially if the numbers above don’t make you happy.
Blake has his limitations but he still does a solid job. Many of the criticisms with Blake’s defense are exaggerated. Team defense is the only thing that really matters. Quick rotations, staying connected, everyone understanding the game plan and on the same page . The Team’s pick and roll defense really needs to improve.
by RABID_RABBIT on May 27, 2009 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions
And Aaron Brooks averaged 10 and 4
against the Lakers this year during the regular season so they must have no trouble defending him? Stockton averaged 18 and 7 against Maloney in the regular season. The playoffs are an entirely different beast. Tony Parker almost won two games singlehandedly against us. The only reason Chris Paul didn’t come near setting a record for assists against us in New Orleans is that he got hurt midway through the third. He was utterly dominating that game in ever sense of the word. And besides, every single player in the league should average worse raw numbers against us because we played at the slowest pace in the league. Chris Paul getting 13 assists in less than 3 quarters against us is the equivalent of getting something like 21 assists in a full game against an average paced team. We gave up the 4th fewest points per game in the league, doesn’t mean we had the 4th best defense.
It should also be mentioned that in that game that Tony Parker had 39 and 9, not only were they playing without Duncan and Ginobili, but Steve Blake also was throwing up an 0-9 shooting performance. Watching those games I never got the impression that we were doing a decent job on those guys. Either guys were missing open jumpers, or the rest of their team was completely AWOL.
Like you said, though, no one “stops those guys 100% of the time”, but you need a guy who can at least keep pace to a point. At 30, Blake isn’t going to get more athletic, but all of these guys will keep improving for another couple years at least, and it only takes monster games from them in 2-3 out of 7 to steal a series if they have even a competent supporting cast (which none of them did for the most part this year due to injuries).
Is it impossible to win with Blake? no. I just think it’s far more likely that one of these guys averages 30 and 11 against us over a series and that we can’t overcome it.
And the Lakers still won with Aaron Brooks playing well
Good players will play well no matter who’s guarding them, especially if they are the team’s franchise players like Parker, Paul, Williams, or even Brooks (the dude can flat out score).
How convenient that you point to the 2 or 3 games that these guys had really good games out of the 11 that the Blazers played against them and say “see, see, I told you so”. Overall the Blazers as a team played these guys well…..that’s all that matters. And like I said, these guys are going to have really good games against you at some point during the season.
We can look at any position on the Team and point to games in which the opposing position had monster games and say “We need to get rid of Brandon, LA, Pryzbilla” but this is pointless.
I agree that the playoffs are a different beast, but I think the team can overcome these guys even if they have a monster series. I’m sure I can look back and point to a team in the playoffs overcoming a monster series by a PG. And I’m sure you can look back and point to a team in the playoffs that couldn’t overcome a monster series by a PG. All this means is that it doesn’t really matter. One player isn’t going to win or lose a series.
Bottom line for me: the Blazers shouldn’t focus on finding a “Chris Paul stopper” when selecting a Blazer’s PG. The whole team needs to adjust to a guy like that, just as the whole team needs to adjust to Lebron or Yao.
by RABID_RABBIT on May 28, 2009 8:52 AM PDT up reply actions
My point abotu Brooks
is that the Rockets, with a skeleton team missing their two best players, were able to take a 60 win team to the wire based almost entirely on the fact that one second tier (at best) PG completely outclassed their PG.
There are no Chris Paul stoppers, but there are guys who can both slow them down a little bit, and make them work defensively. Often the best defense is a good offense. I don’t think Blake is one of them.
Lakers got crushed at the PG position
But it turns out when you have a better SG, SF, PF, and Center positions you can win games. (Well center positions is a wash since Yao only missed 4 games and Bynum’s offense hasn’t been great.)
Someone also mentioned in another post getting Rafer and people went ballistic on him talking about how bad of a player he is. Somehow he doesn’t seem to be holding the Magic back that much.
Umm
I’m pretty srure I said that the Center was the most important position. And you’ll notice that Hakeem and Shaq (with 2 different teams) also needed a great shooting guard to go with them. The third best player on most of the Spurs teams was also a shooting guard.
I really don’t think that the SG spot is overrated in terms of importance. They won’t win a title alone, but nobody will.
Also, the Houston Rockets had more change from 95 to 96 than just their PG. They were terribly injury plagued that year and ended with a 5 seed in the West, but still beat the Lakers in round 1. They probably shouldn’t have been swept in round 2, but I’d be willing to bet they still weren’t 100% healthy. We griped about injuries this year, but only ONE of their starters missed less than 10 games, and that was Chucky Brown. Yippy! (We meanwhile had 3 starters miss unde 5 games.)
Drexler had his worst season in a decade
Kenny Smith had his worst season ever
Hakeem didn’t get any better
Horry didn’t get any better
Cassell had a semi breakout year, but he was still young and he also didn’t play in 21 regular season game.
Basically, attributing the Rockets collapse to their PG change is flat out silly.
When did I ever say anything about the 1996 Rockets?
The 1997 Rockets didn’t have Smith, Horry, or Cassell, and Drexler and Hakeem reverted to earlier form (Hakeem was all-NBA first team, Drexler was an all star), and they added another all star that year with Barkley and kept their other key swing man with Mario Elie. Also, all of the big three was completely healthy going into the playoffs.
Look at Hakeem, Clyde and Barkley’s numbers during Utah series. Hakeem absolutely dominated Ostertag, Barkley and Malone basically played to a standstill, and Clyde and Hornacek basically neutralized each other.
How can you blame that series on anything but the Stockton-Maloney matchup?
How shocking that Stockton outplayed someone
The best PG in the NBA outplayed someone that he was against. Just like how it’s shocking that the best Center in the NBA outplayed the guy that he was against.
Stockton outplayed everyone he played against for many years and never won a title. Clearly the teams that had point guards much worse than him won using other measures. You’re picking out a series where Stockton made the difference, but how many times did his dominacne not matter because of teammates?
You talk like a team of Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan, Lebron James, Brandon Roy, and Sebastian Telfair wouldn’t win a title. This just isn’t true.
Well, in the real world
it’s impossible to assemble super teams like that, so there’s no point in discussing it. Besides, when did I ever say a team absolutely CAN’T win with Blake?
If people are going to consistently throw out counter examples to the “you need a good PG to win in the playoffs” thesis, it shouldn’t be a shock that there are also examples to support the point. I don’t see how Stockton failing to beat the best ever player negates the fact that the Rockets couldn’t win with a subpar PG despite having the best center in the game and two all stars.
And to answer your question, there was exactly one time that Stockton so thoroughly dominated a PG statistically and it didn’t matter: in 89 against the Warriors and the immortal Winston Garland, when Stockton put up a 25 PER, but had only two players on his team other than Malone register even a 10. Every other series he was either playing against a top defensive PG who slowed him down, or at least another solid PG who could even out the matchup.
Regardless of winning titles, you need to make it to the finals first, and the current crop of PGs in the league is far more intimidating than it was back in the mid to late 90’s to early 2000’s (unless you’re a big Mark Jackson or Terrell Brandon believer). I see far more potential for a Stockton-Maloney type demolition than was possible back then, just because there were only 2-3 PGs in the league capable of it (Kidd, who carried two teams to the finals, Stockton, and possibly Gary Payton). Now, you could look at Paul, Rose, Williams, Billups, Rondo, or Parker who could all be capable of so thoroughly dominating a matchup.
Also, who was the great shooting guard Hakeem needed in 1994?
Vernon Maxwell? Duncan in 1999? Mario Elie? or Duncan in 2003? Stephen Jackson averaging 12 ppg? In 2004, Rip was considered a borderline top 10 SG, and in no way a top 5 guy. Outside of big men, it’s all just cyclical with whatever positions the best players of the era happened to play. If we had this dicussion in 1990, we’d be arguing that PG and SF were the most important positions because of Bird, Magic, and Isiah.
Umm, here
Best 2nd Best 3rd Best Total Score
C- 8 (4) C- 5 (4) C- 4 (3) 17 43
PF- 5 (2) PF- 2 (2) PF- 10 (6) 17 29
SF- 3 (1) SF- 8 (3) SF- 6 (4) 17 31
SG- 7 (2) SG- 9 (5) SG- 6 (4) 22 45
PG- 6 (3) PG- 5 (2) PG- 3 (2) 14 31
The number in () are the number of different players who were a top 3 member of their title teams.
11 centers, 11 SG, 10 PF, 8 SF and 7 PG. Granted who the top 3 players on each team can be debated, but usually it’s the number 3 spot that would be up for debate and I don’t think many people would have too many changes.
Weird how Centers and SG are at the top, but how a lot of teams win titles without a PG as one of their better players.
And until the 90s
exactly zero teams would have won with a SG as their best player.
Regardless, recent history skews it because of the explosion of excellent SGs to enter the league, and the absolute drought of PGs.
To wit, between 1995 and 2003, the following SGs have entered the league: Kobe, T-Mac, Vince Carter, Dwyane Wade, Ray Allen, Manu Ginobili, Michael Redd, Michael Finley, Joe Johnson, Jason Terry and Jerry Stackhouse.
In that same time span, the PGs have been: Kidd (1994, actually, but a little fudge factor), Nash, Billups, Parker, Arenas, Baron Davis, Bibby, and Starbury (I left out guys like Mo Williams on the basis that he’s secretly terrible).
That’s 3 surefire HOF SGs (Kobe, Wade, Allen), a few borderline guys (Vinsanity, T-Mac, Manu), and 4 other all star level guys. And 1 surefire HOF PG (Kidd), a couple probables (Nash, Billups), one guy who should get there (Parker), and then 4 other guys who have had something like 5 good seasons between themselves.
Compare that to since then when we’ve had Roy, Iggy, Kevin Martin, and Eric Gordon enter the league as the only real all star/potential all star SGs, and seen CP, Deron Williams, Devin Harris, Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook and Jameer Nelson all enter the league as all star or potential all star PGs (place Mayo wherever you want).
don't forget John Paxon!
Pax was definitely the starting PG on three title teams. 91, 92, & 93. He brought the ball up, passed to MJ, knew the triangle, made his 3’s, made his FT’s, & never turned it over.
And to make the HoF, he’ll have to do it as a GM.
And he got bumped upstairs
"You're welcome friend
I love you."
- Tom "Dragline" inHawaii
by 92wastheyear on May 27, 2009 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Blake isn't on my trading block
If we can upgrade him…great. If not I’m ok with him as our starter for now. I’d rather not sacrifice our depth in order to get a starter. If we can get away with trading 1 bench
I got 6 years of playoff blue balls going on, and I'm ready to release. GO BLAZERS. ~Mortimer
Blake is like my wife because I can't "upgrade" to a 19 year old BEdger with lots of potential until I get rid of my wife.
At least that seems to me how a lot of folks see the point guard situation for the Blazers.
Maybe my wife is cool with it and wouldn’t mind mentoring her replacement. And it would probably be better for my team if I had both so I could utilized both their strengths. I guess it’s a good thing basketball is a team sport and not a relationship, because I’d probably get a kick in the jimmy if I axed my wife to mentor her replacement. Heck, I’d get a kick in the jimmy for wanting to replace her.
Te corto tu cara!
by tominhawaii on May 27, 2009 8:27 AM PDT reply actions 6 recs
If this isn't the most rec'd comment in this thread ...
…. Dave should ban everyone who participated.
Rec’d both for excellent use of analogy, good use of humor and letting the world know one of your secret fantasies.
Oh yeah, and for guts, if your wife sees this.
hakkaa päälle !
Good idea
I might have to start calling you Oden and question your work ethic. Tanking another day off from giving us your three names from you Weekend Discussion: Three Names post, ehh?
Te corto tu cara!
by tominhawaii on May 27, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm reccing
even though it’s silly to rec, i agree with this comment.
Are there better point guards than blake? Yes. Are they available? Some might be for the right price. Is that price worth paying? No.
I’m not resistant to trading blake. I won’t trade him for someone I pay too much for. (too much talent given up or too many dollars for too little in return).
Blazers beat the lakers. Blazers beat Denver. Blazers have beaten Orlando. Blazers almost took down the Cav’s on their home court in OT with LA out. The blazers ran into a bad match-up. If it wasn’t for that, you could very well see the blazers going all the way. They didn’t just beat teams, they obliterated them.
Do the blazers need tweaking? Yes, but I seen no need to get rid of blake when he was a large part of that success. It’s like people with the stock market. A sound investment is sound regardless of what the market does.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
Could we use a different point gaurd...sure
but that is not our biggest weakness…Our biggest weakness is lack of bench muscle behind LaMarcus…We need a guy that can go 14 minutes against Lamarcus’ oppostion and get solid rebounding…
I like the players we have, but none of them provide the muscle we need to back up Aldridge at power forward…
we have good strength at the center position, but Aldridge is not a muscle power forawrd so much and there are times we need someone to grind it out…
Goodbye Deke. The NBA will miss Mt. Mutombo
Support families in crisis in Portland www.give10tell10.org
Exactly
I really consider us weak at the bench this year. Sure PG could be upgraded, but it’s not a priority for me unless an incredible deal comes along.
I view the bench as a weak point. We have some good talent and potential but it needs to be consolidated. Webster may help with that when he comes back. more experience may help with that as the guys continue to grow. in my mind Outlaw is the weakest link (although I agree that a bruiser as a PF might not be a bad things too). His scoring fluctuates and he doesn’t bring enough “other” to the game if he does have an off night. this was more hurtful in the play-offs.
The other area I saw as weak was the back-up point guard. Some experience may help bayless, but he’s had limited playing time to pick it up in. If he can’ pick it up next season, my guess is that he’s not a natural and we need to move on.
I want Rubio. I think his good would outweigh his bad, and I think he’d bring energy off the bench until he showed he could out PG blake. Can we get him? Probably not. I’d love to package Outlaw and Bayless in a trade for him and then also pick-up a bruiser. Rubio/Rudy front court with that bruiser Batum and Pryz and subs… that would work well for me. That young scoring power could work well for another team as well.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
We can get a backup PF
In the draft, probably the 2nd round no less.
Boozer, Millsap, Maxiell, Bass, Big Baby… All 2nd rounders.
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 28, 2009 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Craig Smith...
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 28, 2009 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions
i'll rec it too
i don’t care if it’s on the main page too, i meant to rec it a day ago.
"The problem with tweeners is that sometimes they’re exactly what you need to plug the hole and sometimes they are the hole."
-LaughingJon
FA Devin Harris
What happened to all the past discussion involving Devin Harris from New Jersey?? He is a free agent this summer. New Jersey is in the draft lottery, has too much money tied up in Vince Carter and while they have cap space, they certainly would not be able to match the money of PA if KP decided Devin was the solution at PG.
Blake is not going to be traded. He has too many positives for this team and organization. But, he also has a history of not looking for the post players when they establish position. Part of that is the post players and part is the offensive mind set of Nate. Thing is, an inside power game opens the entire floor and makes life easier for all the outside shooters. Yes, GO is still learning the game but every time he entered the game this past season they should have been looking to post him up and put the ball in his hands. It had to be frustrating for him and LMA to work for post position and then not receive a timely pass to take advantage of that.
I don’t think it is KP’s philosophy to bring in a vet simply for a couple of years and then kick him to the curb. I would hope that he will stay away from all the main stream names being thrown about for starting PG. Kidd, Bibby, Miller and even Hinrich could be solutions that work. I don’t think KP is looking for what could work or what would be a simple upgrade. I think he is looking for that elusive piece that is part of the wow factor. He will not settle for less than that. That brings me back to Devin Harris. Rumors were flying that KP wanted Harris before he got traded to New Jersey. Harris had a break out season in ’09 and while that is a short resume to work from, it may be the confirmation of what KP has thought about him since the beginning.
Just a thought.
by pdxblazer99 on May 27, 2009 11:49 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Devin Harris is not a FA
Not according to ESPN.com’s list of free agents, anyway. And Storyteller has his salary as 8.4M next year, 8.9M in 2010-11, 9.3M in 2011-12, and 8.5M in 2012-13, so it sure doesn’t look like he’s a free agent.
Now, I wouldn’t be opposed to trying to trade for him, but I’d almost guarantee he’s not available at any price (except maybe in exchange for BRoy, but that’s about it).
by MDBlazerfan on May 27, 2009 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Devin Harris
Really? Every other site I’ve checked does not show him with any sort of contract for the next 4 years and I could not find any announcement from the Nets about a new contract or an extension. Certainly changes things if he is under contract. Only means that if KP really wants him, he will have to work some mojo magic to get him, and a big time blockbuster deal to make it happen.
by pdxblazer99 on May 27, 2009 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions
No question
Very much not a free agent. He already had the contract with Dallas before being traded to NJ. The Nets are not trading a reasonably priced 24-year-old point guard who just averaged 25 ppg in his first full year on the team. He’s their foundation. It’s not happening.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
by KP Corleone on May 31, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not so sure we couldn't get Harris. I'm just not sure we want him.
He’s completed the first year of his new contract so he’s no longer a BYC (base-year compensation) player.
Here’s what hoopshype.com says about him:
Very good scorer… Nice one-on-one skills… Good vision of the court… Great first step… Very quick and intense… Pretty good defender… Not very strong… Mediocre three-point shooter.
Notice that part about him being a mediocre three-point shooter?
His averages this season:
- 36.1 mpg in 69 games
- 21.3 ppg on 43.8% from the field
- 29.1% from beyond the arc (ouch!)
- 82% from the line
- 6.9 assists
- 3.4 rebounds
- 1.7 steals
His three-point shot sucks, and not just this season. His career best is 33.6% his rookie year. He appears to be a good shooter inside the arc, just not beyond it. Nets fans are lukewarm about him. Maybe Mark Cuban wasn’t so stupid to trade him after all.
by MiledAnimal on May 27, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't know that I would rule him out on the 3 point deficiency...
If he can effectively distribute the ball to our scorers with over 20ppg, sounds interesting to me.
Some clarification
It seemed to me that the major areas for improvement with this team are:
1. third scorer (who can play defense)
2. muscle off the bench (who can rebound)
3. point guard upgrade (a true general)
Is my order wrong on that? It’s not that I don’t think a true general isn’t important, but considering The Blazers won 54 games, and all the youth on this team will develop it is reasonable to assume that standing pat will still equal improved team play. Now that might not be championship, but it probably does mean competing for conference title. However, taking a flyer on another point guard probably reduces those odds because there would be so many unknowns. Not every point guard is going to be Chauncy Billups for this team.
However, adding a third scorer who can play defense and some muscle could do wonders for the current point guard. Am I wrong on this? It just seems much of this discussion might be backwards because it is harder to find an elite point guard than #1 and #2 on that list.
1.) See Oden as he improves AND Webster if he can get back to last years level.
2.) Yeah, we can use this, and this is something that won’t be home grown. (we’ll have to trade for it)
3.) We need a good back up. Blake is just fine.
As for your last point, Oden able to move his feet, and the team being more aware of defensive switches will do wonders for the team.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
I agree with the keep Blake sentiment.
I also agree that we need to get the best possible replacement for Sergio, who is ready to go. Ideally that replacement will be an improvement on Blake, giving us a viable 2 point guard rotation. Steve is at least good enough to be our point backup if we can actually get something better, and untill he is proven, we need more than Bayless, however hopeful we may be in his potential, for backup. Steve is integrated into the 54 win team, has shown committment to Portland (leaving Denver), and aint bad. We need some depth at this critical position.
Of course, what we can get and for what is the big question, which I certainly don’t have the answer to. That’s why we have KP and staff. I am counting on them for this, in my opinion, the biggest off season issue.
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