My Super Duper Conley Writeup
An Analysis regarding our Newest Favorite Future Point Guard of the Future
via media.scout.com
May 19th, 2009, fate delivered the Memphis Grizzlies the 2nd Pick in the 2009 NBA draft, and the likely selection of Spanish point guard sensation Ricky Rubio. Discussion focused around the acquisition of one Mike Conley, reached fever pitch. After all it only makes sense; the Blazer need a permanent backcourt mate to Brandon Roy, and the playoffs made it clear that the Steve Blake-Stopgap Era had outlived its natural usefulness. With young talent, draft picks, and cap room to spare, the Blazers seemingly have the assets to snap up the now superfluous second year point guard.
But is it the right move? Certainly there are a lot of people who support vigorously entering negotiations for Conely; however, there is not a particularly large voice in opposition towards this measure. It’s not because getting Conley is a decided "no-brainer". More likely, it stems from the lack of ostensible knowledge on the player in question. How many people actively watch Memphis Grizzly games? Sure, his stats Post Allstar break are pretty good for a 21 year old point, but we all know that surface stats belie tangible production. The Zbos, the Starbury’s, the Antoine Walkers of the league all have put up decent stats without helping their teams. Compounding the issue is the age old basketball truism "He puts up stats on a bad team".
My analysis of Conely is going to bisect him into two sectors, one of Theory and the other of Practice/Reality. Theory covers "how Conley should play" while the Reality consists of analysis of how Conley "actually plays". For example, The Theory of Jerryd Bayless would state that although he lacks natural point guard skills he makes a good backcourt compliment to Brandon Roy because he is a good shooter/penetrator, defender, and decent playmaker; reality unfortunately poked a lot of holes in that idea, proving that he is a poor shooter, and could not beat out thoroughly mediocre guards like Sergio Rodriguez and Steve Blake in the rotation.
Theory:
Built similarly to many of his lithe successful Post-hand check era peers, Mike Conley is rather small and uses his quickness and athleticism to blow past defenders, giving defenses fits because of his explosive first step.
Physicals Chart
Conley leads or comes in a close second in most categories besides the lane agility drill where he ranked last. Physically he compares very well to smaller point guard peers. Notably he scores high on the Bench press which indicates he has the upper body strength to attack the rim and play through contact at the NBA level, he and Paul are the only two that lifted 185lbs 10 or more times.
Draft Express on his exceptional athleticism.
"Athletically, Mike is as close to a freak as you can get for a point guard prospect. He has an incredibly explosive first step, outstanding lateral quickness, and nice leaping ability for a player who stands only 6’1. It is nice to see a player use all of his athletic abilities to the fullest on both ends of the floor, a rarity by today’s standards in the college game."
Reality:
Size matters in the NBA. When you are a point guard it’s far easier to see the court and players around you, when you are taller than your defender. However, it’s not the end all be all. Especially with the how rules are currently constructed in the NBA, it pays to be short and quick. Numerous guards have come out with Conley’s size in recent years and have adjusted to the NBA fairly well, *cough* Chris Paul. However, players his size are more prone to injury and have lingering durability concerns (look at TJ Ford). The fact that he missed 29 games with injuries in 2007-2008 certainly doesn’t put those thoughts to rest.
On Offense
Conley is a potent slasher that can finish at the rim with either hand and uses his quickness and great handle to break down defenders. He is a true floor general and plays with great maturity and patience with the ball in his hands. In college and his first year in the NBA he lacked a steady jumper. In his sophomore campaign he improved his 3pt shooting, hitting a very respectable 40.6% of his triple attempts. He had a 2.48 ast/tov ratio, which is middling for an NBA point guard, Chris Paul, meanwhile had a sterling 3.5 ast/tov at the same age. Playing for the Buckeyes he averaged 6.1asts , and a 2.77 ast/tov ratio, good for 3rd in the country.
Draft Express snippets
"On multiple occasions in this game Conley would weave with the basketball through the lane, going between defenders, crossing the ball over to switch hands, and using his body to shield the ball. Once at the rim, Conley can score with either hand, just as he can proficiently dribble with either, and he scored a variety of lay-ups in the game, the most impressive of which was a reverse lay-up off the glass in transition on which he exhibited tremendous body control…he also hit a right-handed floater from about 10 feet, to go along with his assortment of lay-ups."
"He showed outstanding court vision slicing up the defense at finding the open man, using a wide array of shakes and hesitation moves that allowed him to get inside the paint going either left or right almost whenever he pleased. His decision making was almost impeccable on top of that, dishing out to the open man spotting up on the wing when the situation called for it, or finishing plays himself with a floater or kiss high off the glass with either hand when that solution made more sense."
Reality
His shooting percentages after the all star break are good, 46% FG and 43% from 3pt, his lack of free throws drawn (2.5 per game) is troublesome however. A player with his quickness and ball handling skills should definitely be putting up at least 4 free throws a game. His assists per game, at 5.6 (post all star break) is a little low for a guard that supposedly had such talent at getting his teammates involved.
3 Shades of Blue also had the following take…
"Got one vote for most improved. Has a shaky shot (yes still, you can argue all you want otherwise). Has confidence problems. Is quick as lightning. Can make great, heady passes, even if no one on the team can make the shot after the pass. Doesn't turn the ball over too much. Loves to dribble. Alot. In fact, the over-dribbling kills the offense."
Defensively
Conley has great lateral quickness and is a decent on the ball defender. His great leaping ability and wingspan should translate into the ability to contest the shots of taller defenders. These qualities also allow him to more rebounds than expect for a guard of his size (3.4rbs a game in 2008-2009). Conley also anticipates passing lanes rather well, gathering 2.2stls a game in college. However his size means that larger guards will be able to back him down in the post fairly easily.
Draft Express
"On defense, Conley had another solid game, playing pesky on the ball…He has great hands, and it showed in this game as he deflected several passes, and a couple of them wound up as steals, either for him or a teammate. More so than his hands though, it’s his instincts and knowledge of where to position himself when his man doesn’t have the ball that makes him dangerous. A couple of Conley’s steals came from his anticipation and playing the angles correctly on defense, cutting off passing lanes."
Reality:
Small guards can become great defensive players, just look at Rajon Rondo (I was very surprised when I found out he was 6’1"). But having size and length are both extremely important to be a great individual defender at the NBA level, players Devin Harris, Russell Westbrook and Derrick Rose for example. I feel like on the ball defense is a skill that is harder to learn than others at the elite level. Conley was never especially known for his D in college, so I would not expect him to become elite in the NBA. However, I can see Conley becoming a better than average defender, especially since he got so many steals at his time at Ohio state.
Theory
The biggest sticking point that doesn’t need to be discussed, but will, because people pretend to be psychologists aka the WHY IS GREG ODEN IN SUMMER SCHOOL argument
Mike Conley doesn’t want to play with Greg Oden because he fears he will forever be in his shadow.
"When I got on campus I realized a lot of people have the opinion that I was just Greg Oden's high school teammate," Conley said. "That's the way a lot of people see me."
"Despite Conley being showered with awards, many doubted his true worth. One Division I coach -- privately, of course -- went so far as to tell CBS SportsLine.com that Conley simply wasn't capable of playing at the high D-I level, that he would never be a factor at Ohio State."
Reality:
No? If you play with some from middle school on, travelling from city to city in AAU tournaments, I think you would become close to someone. Basketball is a sport that requires team chemistry, and as we have seen this year with Rudy and Sergio, having teammates that have long been acquainted certainly helps on the court. I think Conley would love to come and play with Oden again.
Projections:
If we consider his post allstar break numbers as indicative of his true potential and not an aberration, he compares very favorably to some very solid guards. Here are the numbers (from basketball reference.com) 
Querying guards between the ages of 21-22 in their second season, between 5’11" and 6’1", who score at least 14ppg and at least 5.5ast/g brings up these players. Knocking it down to 10ppg and 5 asts adds Raymond Felton, Rajon Rondo and Mo Williams to the list.
Analysis:
Fairly elite company. What’s notable here is that Conley draws the lowest number of free throw attempts per game which gives a few impressions. One explanation is that he still may not be used to the quickness and length of NBA defenders, and that he is not able to blow past these defenders the way he did in college.
Alternatively, considering his high three point percentage, defenders must be picking him up at the three point line. With his speed, it would be relatively easy from there to pull up for a mid ranger shot, or drive in for a layup. Maybe this another statistic that reflects Conley’s general lack of confidence on the court ? If he gets consistent minutes and works on his mid range game he could definitely become one of the better offensive point guards in the NBA.
Overall:
After doing this research I think Conley has quite a bit of untapped potential. He has great athleticism for his position, although he lacks ideal size, many point guards that possess the same physical attributes find success in the NBA. He had very solid numbers in college, especially as a freshman. Guys with a good work ethic, athleticism and solid fundamentals rarely flop in the NBA. He may have been drafted too high because of his great tournament run, but his game definitely has the substance. His weak rookie year can largely be attributed to injury and his adaptation to playing point guard in the NBA (normally a very challenging process) has proceeded very smoothly at the precocious age of 21.
Furthermore, considering his perceived weakness was 3 point shooting, his 43% post AS shooting average is very comforting news. He definitely has not remained stagnant the way his oft compared peer, Raymond Felton has. If he is in an environment that allows him to play to his strengths, which involve playing with the ball in his hands, pick and roll, drive and dish, he could become a solid 2nd tier point guard in this league. The same caliber of player as guys like Mo Williams, Jose Calderon or Jameer Nelson.
My only reservations with trading for Conley remain in his size and the resulting injury concerns; I still don’t like small point guards not named Chris Paul. However, the opportunities to grab, young, rapidly improving point guards are rare, and in this case it seems to be worth the risk.
Btw I emailed the dudes that write at 3 shades of Blue, if I hear back from them i'll post their comments here.
19 recs |
96 comments
Comments
great job
If indeed it is true that Rubio won’t go to Memphis, that makes Conley a lot less available, but there’s still a long time before the draft.
by jksnake99 on May 21, 2009 1:32 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd lay 10 to 1 odds it never happens...
Memphis is cheap, and right now they have a cheap PG who plays well. They can get a cheap center (Thabeet) to put alongside Gasol and others and will not select Rubio.
That means the worst case scenario most likely will happen and Rubio goes to TTTSNBN. With a starting back court of Rubio, Westbrook, and Durant and Green at the 3 and 4. They’ll be contenders in the playoffs in 2 years. As Simmons says, “All Seattle Supersonic fans may now light themselves on fire.”
Trade or sign a starting PG
Draft a banger PF...that's your job KP, now get it done!
by Matt Daddy on May 21, 2009 8:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If anything they will try and move Jaric and Darko instead of Conley
Neither of which we want on our team. If you add the whole Miles situation into the equation there is no way Wallace deals Conley to Portland. Don’t get me wrong a Conley/Bayless PG duo would be AWESOME…unfortunately I think KP is set on having Bayless be the PG of the future with Blake the backup and some rookie /vet 3rd string.
Trade or sign a starting PG
Draft a banger PF...that's your job KP, now get it done!
by Matt Daddy on May 21, 2009 8:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we'd have to take at least one of these guys back...
Just to sweeten the deal for Memphis. I done know how they would fit on our team… I’d imagine stuck on the bench.
While they’re not the greatest players around they are reasonably solid at what they do… we wouldn’t expect them to be stars.
by Milky_Joe on May 22, 2009 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For as much as Rubio doesn't want to go to Memphis
it sounds like he definitely doesn’t want to go to the Thunder. Presti might call his bluff, but I’d be surprised if he ever put on a Thunder uni. Besides, the difference in cost for Memphis between Rubio and Thabeet is $500k. They could save 10 times that by taking Rubio and using Conley to dump Jaric or Darko on another team.
by Royster on May 21, 2009 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I may be wrong
but I’d imagine there is a contract issue with rubio, and any team drafting him and bringing him over would have to buy out his contract (which probably has a huge clause). They also have to convince rubio, and memphis may have a HARD sell. Because Rubio already has an international career, he can dictate which teams he would be willing to come over for, and if he says no, the team won’t waste a high draft pick on him.
by lurtsman on May 24, 2009 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, it is hard to say what motivates the memphis management
it is a mystery…
I think Conley would be a good fit here…I like a couple of other guys as well. I would actually like a more experienced player at that position…but with looming cap issues in a couple of years that will be tough…
Goodbye Deke. The NBA will miss Mt. Mutombo
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by PDXBuckeye on May 27, 2009 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The real question is
Is Mike Conley a Nate approved PG. If Nate doesn’t want him we should not even bother.
by Sabonis4Ever on May 21, 2009 1:47 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I totally agree with
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
Roses are red
violets in bloom
Sophia’s in love
with Nicholas Batum
-Bow4Meow
by BlazerFan1 on May 21, 2009 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh man. You two had to say it this morning. Now I've got to go paste my comment from yesterday.
Let’s just say I strongly disagree. brb.
by Timmay! on May 21, 2009 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pasting from yesterday's Conley thread:
I sincerely hope KP does not choose player acquisitions based on who Nate would like to play. I mean, of course Nate needs input into player selections. But I hope KP chooses based on talent and need, regardless of it being a Nate guy. I’m not even convinced that if we had nothing but "Nate guys" (realistic guys, not all LBJ’s or something), that it would really be a championship team.
It also means Nate is a single point of failure. If Nate bolts to another team (again), we’re left with "Nate guys" and no Nate. Then KP has to consider a Nate clone, which probably isn’t the best way to go at that point, since he’d be Nate but without the interpersonal relationships that helped establish his coaching style with the team.
I’d much rather see KP go for the players who fit what he sees as the long term solution for the organization, and tell Nate what he expects. Which is how I think he’s running it now, so yay KP.
If a player is talented, KP will expect Nate to play him, irrespective of whether that player is Nate’s style. The day we can confirm that Nate isn’t playing a talented player because he’s not a "Nate guy" would probably be the same day that Pritchard pencils in the schedule for that Summer’s coaching interviews.
If KP thinks that Conley is the future of the team, and Nate says Conley isn’t his kind of player, that won’t stop KP from acquiring him.
by Timmay! on May 21, 2009 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont disagree with you
im simply stating that i believe a part of a point guards value on this team has to do with whether he fits in with Nates style of play. Of COURSE KP shouldn’t acquire a PG based soley upon whether he’s a NatePG or somethingelsePG rather that the PG’s success with be based upon how Nate allows him to play.
ya Digg??
Sophia
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
Roses are red
violets in bloom
Sophia’s in love
with Nicholas Batum
-Bow4Meow
by BlazerFan1 on May 21, 2009 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep I get what you're saying
But I feel like, if Nate can’t adjust his offense to players outside of his comfort zone, then KP has a nasty future decision to make: Limit his player choices to his head coach’s comfort level, or look for a head coach who can get the best out of players outside of his comfort level.
There’s always the option to get Nate to change, but if we are in a situation where KP needs to be conscious of Nate’s coaching style, because it’s inflexible, then getting Nate to change may be problematic.
I don’t think this is a problem right now btw. But there are regular comments that KP needs to focus on getting guys Nate will play, while I think it’s the opposite: Nate needs to be able to handle the guys KP brings in.
by Timmay! on May 21, 2009 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree it's not really an issue
but the problem I think with dismissing anyone outside of Nate’s system, is that he hasn’t proven it to be a title-winning system yet. Obviously, he’s never had the players to win a title, but if you look at guys like Phil Jackson, Popovich, or Larry Brown, they’ve all shown that with the right mix of players, you can win titles within their systems. That hasn’t been proven with Nate yet.
It’s entirely possible (not necessarily likely) that even with the right players, Nate’s offense/defense won’t be able to win a title. Look at the Adelman Blazers and Kings, or the D’Antoni Suns. They were filled with perfect players for their systems, but just couldn’t get it done in the playoffs, so I don’t think those guys have earned the gravitas of a title-winning coach to impose a “only guys that fit into my system” approach.
I don’t think Nate’s input should be ignored, but until he gets us over that final hurdle, I just don’t think being a “Nate guy” should be a requirement for anyone we look to acquire.
by Royster on May 21, 2009 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nate doesn't have a system like "The Triangle"
to insert any old playing into.
He’s a young coach learning his style and changing it as he goes along. He’s gone from “The Sarge” to “The Stern” and probably will end up at “The Stoic”.
His offense is nothing to holler about at all , which is another thing. However, what really sticks out to me is their defense. Hopefully that will transform (it will) sooner rather than later.
S
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
Roses are red
violets in bloom
Sophia’s in love
with Nicholas Batum
-Bow4Meow
by BlazerFan1 on May 21, 2009 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yikes
or look for a head coach who can get the best out of players outside of his comfort level.
i think Nate will conform. He’s changed quite dramtically each season with Portland so I refuse to go there …….. yet
sophia
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
Roses are red
violets in bloom
Sophia’s in love
with Nicholas Batum
-Bow4Meow
by BlazerFan1 on May 21, 2009 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two things:
1. I own the shoes he is wearing in the main pic. I wear them only for hoops and they are damn great.
2. Conley is the fastest basketball player i have ever seen in person. I was at the last home game against the Griz and I swear when he came off a high pick and drove for a mid-range J, my vision would blur.
Get ’em
Tony Luftman Is an Animatronic Robot created by Cyberdyne Industries for the purpose of the destruction of the entire human race, no one shall be spared.
by Jiggamant on May 21, 2009 1:56 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You should see Brandon Jennings
My avatar is 3 years into the future for sure...
by Taskmaster on May 21, 2009 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Make a big trade for Steve Nash
I think we should make a big trade and get Nash. We could keep him 1 season and if he dosent like it here we dont have to resign him. We can trade up a lilttle ways in the draft and pick Jrue Holiday for us. He would be a great PG for us. He is a great passer, Scorer and a really good defender. With Nash’s salary gone next summer we could try and Sign a big name free agent. Joe Johnson comes to mind
by quezadaz on May 21, 2009 2:00 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
NO CAP ROOM NEXT SUMMER
ASSUMING OF COURSE, YOU WANT KP TO EXTEND LMA AND B-ROY
by kobisportsguy on May 21, 2009 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here is the deal with resigning those two
We have had them for three years, which gives us “bird rights” what that means is we can go over the cap to sign them.
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 21, 2009 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course
But we can’t have cap space next summer if we extend them both now. After the 09-10 season ends their contracts balloon… giving us no cap space. I know about Bird rights, but they’re only good for OUR players. We can’t extend our two cornerstones then have cap room for use on a free agent next summer. Can’t be done.
by kobisportsguy on May 21, 2009 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Repost from trade drawer: It looks like e.g. Aaron Brooks has had similar play tendencies this season
Main difference to Brooks is that Conley also sets picks instead of handling the ball in a p&r (10%), presumably mostly for Mayo. CP3 who was called his ceiling before the draft is somewhat similar but uses much more pick and roll. Monta Ellis too, but uses more isos and less spotting up. TJ Ford who he was also compared to before the draft isn’t at all in terms of tendencies. Sergio is the most similar on the Blazers with same percentages for pick & roll and spotting up (also the most similar to Brooks).

Hotspots isn’t working for some reason for the Grizzlies at the moment (only shows team numbers). Here is Conley’s chart from last season 2007-08. I assume it’s even better now with increased efficiency.

Statistically similar players when looking just on last year in terms of TOV%, Assist% and shooting percentages were Jameer Nelson when looking on better players (only him with that combo) and again Brooks as the closest one when looking at players just below his values. Derek Fisher also was close. Another similar player was DJ Augustin when you go by PER and TS% together with those assist and turnover numbers. Historically if age is not a factor it’s e.g. Jose Calderon in 2007-08, Antonio Daniels in 2000-01, Steve Nash in 1997-98 and our very own Kevin Pritchard in 1995-96 :)
by Norsktroll on May 21, 2009 4:25 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Conley as the Roll man in the pick´n roll?
10% of the time?
What system are they playing in memphis?
by Falcao on May 21, 2009 6:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's Memphis
That team is a goddamn disaster at every level.
by dprodigy19 on May 21, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was their problem all year long...
Hotspots isn’t working for some reason for the Grizzlies at the moment …
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on May 21, 2009 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Norsk
Did you see Augustine’s bench numbers? That is straight ugly !
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 21, 2009 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Dheepan
Any information on his character? I don’t like that he was on the same team with Darius Miles.
"Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven." - John Milton
by tominhawaii on May 21, 2009 4:50 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
well
he has been best friends with oden since middle school, and oden is a great guy, sooo… i would be shocked if there was any problem.
- Sam
by RipCitySam on May 21, 2009 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I heard a rumor that Oden smokes pot and that he's lazy in the off season
We don’t need two of those guys on the roster.
"Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven." - John Milton
by tominhawaii on May 21, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wish I was making those two rumors up
MSP started the first rumor, Nate started the second.
"Hey Beavis, let's rock!"
by tominhawaii on May 21, 2009 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any form of verification on this? Beuller?
"Tough times don't last. Tough people do."
-Chauncey Billups
by Kelsoballa on May 22, 2009 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I bet if you search BE you can find the pot thing, even Quick talked about it
The GO going to OSU this summer was when Nate implied he wasn’t happy with that situation.
"Hey Beavis, let's rock!"
by tominhawaii on May 22, 2009 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Better than your Nash write up
boy did that suck
"Should I ask? What's a punani?" - by annthefan on May 3, 2009 1:55 PM
by Sexual Tyrannosaurus on May 21, 2009 6:40 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Good writeup.
I rewatched the 4-07 Portland-Memphis game to get an idea of Conley’s defense. I was pleasantly surprised. Roy tried to back him down at one point, but Conley showed impressive leg strength and kept Roy from forcing him down low.
He also had excellent rotations and defensive awareness.
Chris Paul, meanwhile had a sterling 3.5 ast/tov at the same age. Playing for the Buckeyes he averaged 6.1asts , and a 2.77 ast/tov ratio, good for 3rd in the country.
Chris Paul had one of the best rookie seasons ever. Conley compares well to Payton and Rondo in the A:T terms.
After doing this research I think Conley has quite a bit of untapped potential.
Here’s why I want Conley: most young point guards (everyone not named Chris Paul) struggle, and then show a little bit of life. The game starts to slow down for them. There could be an opportunity to get a highly-regarded prospect who is starting to figure the game out. Like Harris and Rondo, he’ll be a star soon enough… it’s at this stage that point guards are available.
Fearthesword.com: "There is no doubt that the long layoff, combined with the ease of the first two rounds had the Cavaliers a bit tired in the 4th quarter."
by Cablinasian on May 21, 2009 7:50 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
i had the 10th rec!
i rock i know :)
sophia
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
Roses are red
violets in bloom
Sophia’s in love
with Nicholas Batum
-Bow4Meow
by BlazerFan1 on May 21, 2009 9:59 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Here is my take on Bayless
From DraftExpress
Offensively, Bayless can do it all and has basically everything you look for in a scoring guard. He’s an outstanding shooter first and foremost, showing terrific shooting mechanics, superb elevation creating separation from his defender, and all the confidence in the world to fire away in any situation imaginable. His release is a bit on the deliberate side, but this is a minor flaw that surely can be corrected in time.
Bayless can come off a screen, catch and shoot, or pull-up off the dribble equally well. He has great balance and core strength setting up for his jumper, and thus gets terrific results already this early in his career. He hits tough shots going left or right or fading away, even with a man in his feet, never getting flustered regardless of the situation.
More than just a shooter, though, Bayless is also a terrific shot-creator, with an aggressive slashing mentality and a real killer instinct making his way to the basket. He’s explosive enough with his first step or wicked crossover to just beat players off the dribble going left or right, but also possesses excellent ability to change gears, stop and go, and mix in hesitation moves to keep his defender off balance. He gets to the free throw line at a terrific rate, taking contact at the rim, but possibly lacking just a degree of size and strength to consistently finish those moves at the hoop. He often just prefers to find a glimmer of daylight in which he can get his shot off from mid-range, which is a very high percentage shot for him.
And nbadraft.net
A must see to believe type of talent Possesses incredible open floor speed, which combined with a devastating first step make him a nightmare to defend Tremendous leaping ability and superb body control allow him to finish in the lane over much taller players Gets great lift on his jump-shot, with range well out to the NBA three His pull up jumper is magnificent; with the elevation, balance, and quick release, he is virtually able to shoot whenever, and over whomever he desires He has great intelligence and confidence plus a swagger that makes him an assassin on the floor in heightened situations Is able to get open shots by making good reads and using screens effectively Aggressive attacking the hoop, and extremely adept at getting to the foul line Great hesitation and change of pace dibbles Flash and flamboyance are nicely contrasted with a high basketball IQ and craftiness Has all the tools to become a special player on the NBA level
In a word: special. Bayless combines incredible speed, quickness and athleticism with a high level of intelligence and composure … Winners mentality … He really excels on the offensive end of the floor with his scoring ability … Has an extra gear blowing by defenders with ease, and needs just an inch of daylight to get his jumpshot off … Excellent body strength for his age … He understands how to create shots for himself and has incredible leaping ability … Very strong offensively, great form on his shot … Plays with a high level of intensity … Good defender, team player. Has leadership ability …
After doing this research I think Bayless has quite a bit of untapped potential. He has great athleticism for his position, he posses ideal size, many point guards that possess the same physical attributes find success in the NBA. He had very solid numbers in college, especially as a freshman. Guys with a good work ethic, athleticism and solid fundamentals rarely flop in the NBA. He may have been drafted too low because of his below average tournament run, but his game definitely has the substance. His weak rookie year can largely be attributed to Nate’s stubbornness and his adaptation to playing point guard in the NBA (normally a very challenging process) has proceeded very smoothly at the precocious age of 20.
My main positives for playing for Bayless remain in his size and his low risk of injury; I still don’t like small point guards not named Chris Paul. However, the opportunities to play, young, rapidly improving point guards are rare, and in this case it seems to be worth the risk.
Here’s why I want Bayless: most young point guards (everyone not named Chris Paul) struggle, and then show a little bit of life. The game starts to slow down for them. There could be an opportunity to get a highly-regarded prospect who is starting to figure the game out. Like Harris and Rondo, he’ll be a star soon enough… it’s at this stage that point guards are available.
Thoughts?
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
by SpyderRyder on May 21, 2009 10:40 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
My thoughts are
that quoting only the positives of a scouting report from 4 years ago doesn’t provide a lot of insight into him. Also, if you’re going to cite low risk of injury as a positive, shouldn’t this passage from one of the nbadraft.net reports you cite be included also:
Continues to be plagued by injuries, which raises questions about his durability
by Royster on May 21, 2009 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
so out of all those words
in those 2 pages only one mentions injury and that is all you harp on?
Bayless missed 4 games @ UA, with a sprained knee and had them going 1.3 during that time with their only win over the 0-18 OSU during that time. The only other injury he has had was a wrist injury his sophomore year in HS.
Most of those posts were from last year and it proves nothing more than the positive quotes for Conley. I would imagine I could read back through Conleys profile and pick out the bad things as well, but I don’t do that.
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
by SpyderRyder on May 21, 2009 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point is
like you said with picking out negative things about finding negative things about Conley, there are tons of positive scouting reports out there about every single one of these guys, that’s why they’re lottery picks. To simply pick through these things without looking at the negatives also, you’d think any top 10 pick in the last 5 years is going to be the next Michael Jordan or Magic Johnson. There are some key negatives in there that you just completely omitted, beyond just any durability issue which I only pointed out because you listed it as one of two “main positives”.
I’m all for looking through scouting reports to evaluate our guys, but that means looking at both the good and the bad, and out of three passages, one you listed was a report from after his sophomore year of HS. Jordan wasn’t even on the varsity team in his high school at that point. Scouting reports from that long ago just become meaningless.
I didn’t mean to come off as dickish as I did, but there’s a reason they list positives and negatives in scouting reports. I’d rather look at all the information, not just the rosy side of it.
by Royster on May 21, 2009 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here’s why I want Bayless: most young point guards (everyone not named Chris Paul) struggle, and then show a little bit of life. The game starts to slow down for them. There could be an opportunity to get a highly-regarded prospect who is starting to figure the game out. Like Harris and Rondo, he’ll be a star soon enough… it’s at this stage that point guards are available.
If we have chance to get a point guard that is already breaking out, and not one who could potentially break out, we do it.
Plus, though Bayless could become a point guard, he isn’t one presently. Conley is.
Fearthesword.com: "There is no doubt that the long layoff, combined with the ease of the first two rounds had the Cavaliers a bit tired in the 4th quarter."
by Cablinasian on May 21, 2009 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Winners Mentality"
He didn’t win in college.
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 23, 2009 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now THIS is a good "Blazer Challenge" post!!!
Recced.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on May 21, 2009 10:45 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
challange, you mean.
"Whatever...I heard Bayless uses a pillowcase as a wallet." --TiH
by prezofdeath on May 21, 2009 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe he means
Challenge
The NBA: Where Amazingly Bad Officiating Happens.
by The Roybot on May 21, 2009 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um, not to be a jerk, but it's spelled
“Chalupa”
by Marvin100 on May 22, 2009 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well that was just a damn good write up
It deserves a better name !
“The Mike Conley Analysis”
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 21, 2009 11:40 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
According to his Yardbarker
He is in columbus, as is Greg.
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 21, 2009 11:45 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Lets start a rumor that they are lovers
"Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven." - John Milton
by tominhawaii on May 21, 2009 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
haha
someone asked me if i was more like greg or mcon. . . i said “greg, b/c im always emo like him” . . .
they would be a cute couple
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
Roses are red
violets in bloom
Sophia’s in love
with Nicholas Batum
-Bow4Meow
by BlazerFan1 on May 21, 2009 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The real question
Why would someone ask you this?
by Zaig on May 21, 2009 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get asked it daily
What’s wrong with your life that no one asks you whether your personality matches how we perceive Oden’s personality, or Mike Conley Jr’s?
I feel sorry for you.
Mr. Mortimer Jr.
by Mortimer on May 22, 2009 3:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Greg said in his radio interview they're both taking classes at THE OSU
Why do they emphasize the ‘THE’ part anyway???
by kobisportsguy on May 21, 2009 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's some stupid OSU thing
Almost everyone from there does it.
by KitIsh on May 21, 2009 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oklahoma State is a rivalish school
They considered themselves to be “THE” OSU.
And nobody in that part of the country even knows that Oregon State exists.
by Zaig on May 21, 2009 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually nobody anywhere knows that Oregon State exists...
most of the people in Corvallis don’t know that Oregon State exists…they still believe there is a school somewhere around there named Oregon Agricultural Institute
Go Ducks!!!!
Trade or sign a starting PG
Draft a banger PF...that's your job KP, now get it done!
by Matt Daddy on May 21, 2009 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought that Oregon State now goes by "OS"
You see it on all of their paraphernalia. That seemed to be a way to differential themselves from the several "OSU"s. I’m glad they got rid of the “U.” When I went there I never thought it should be confused with a University. :-)
And people say Steve Blake isn’t tough.
by Thadius on May 23, 2009 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
read the above link
a real think twicer about Conley
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
by jonestr on May 21, 2009 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only way to get what you want
from a greedy person is to engage them in a never ending dialogue. Even then they may jump off for a quick score somewhere else. It seems like KP has been negotiating with Memphis over Conley for at least a year now. That’s a good start.
by oregonslee on May 21, 2009 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We will eat their bad contracts and give 'em cheap young talent
It’s irresistably delicious!
Mort.
by Mortimer on May 22, 2009 3:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So realistically, what would it take to pry him away?
Eating the atrocious Jaric Contract (almost 15m over 2 yrs) and giving up Bayless and Trout? If I’m Memphis, I’d be hard pressed to accept anything less. I think I’d pull the trigger on that from a Blazer standpoint, but how about the rest of you?
by HuskyJosh on May 22, 2009 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tough to say - Once the game slows down for Bayless like it has for Conley, Bayless MIGHT resemble the summer league star we came to love
But even with the best case scenario with Bayless, how much better can he get than Conley showed post all-star break?
That’s why KP makes the decisions round here
"Tough times don't last. Tough people do."
-Chauncey Billups
by Kelsoballa on May 22, 2009 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Conley - Rondo
Look how close they are at age 21.
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 21, 2009 6:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It may not work as a valid comparison...
Purely due to circumstance. Rondo ended up in a role as a starting PG with three hall-of-fame players who were so hungry for a title, they put all egos aside and worked inside the team concept, and helped the new guys learn the ropes. It very likely skewed Rondo’s growth pattern. It’s hard to even guarantee Rondo’s eventual peak if he’d been with a different team.
If Rondo’s entire career had been spent in Memphis so far, there’s a reasonable chance we wouldn’t be using him for comparison purposes.
by Timmay! on May 21, 2009 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great point...
can you imagine what Conley would have done in Boston the last couple years….SCARY!!!!
Trade or sign a starting PG
Draft a banger PF...that's your job KP, now get it done!
by Matt Daddy on May 21, 2009 9:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Being In Portland
Growing with Roy, Aldridge & Oden is not bad either.
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 23, 2009 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh totally agreed on one level
But at the same time, there’s a difference between growing up along with your stars, and growing up with established stars teaching you the ropes.
by Timmay! on May 23, 2009 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously
Not the same with playing with Pierce, KG & Allen in their prime, but Conley, Roy, Batum, Aldridge & Oden would all hit their “primes” at the same time.
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 23, 2009 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
good link
hope the front office under values a young, talented pg as well……we need to be carefull not to do the same
"show me a good loser and i'll show you a loser" - coach
by chikndnnr on May 21, 2009 8:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
here's one bad thought: both oden and conley jr would have as their agent conley's dad
who if i’m correct does exactly have a big roster of other players. the blazers could find themselves in very unhappy negotiations with someone controlling 2/5 of the starting lineup. just a thought.
otherwise, i generally like conley as a young pg.
ignacio
by ignacio on May 22, 2009 2:45 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
conley sr does NOT exactly have a big roster of other players
does he represent anyone else? or are his only clients greg oden and his son?
ignacio
by ignacio on May 22, 2009 2:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ANOTHER CLOSE FRIEND OF THE GROUP
ODEN TALKED (DURING HIS INJURY) YEAR ABOUT HANGING WITH DAEQUAN IN MIAMI WHEN THE BLAZERS WERE IN TOWN.
by kobisportsguy on May 22, 2009 4:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let Paul Allen deal with that...
I don’t think it’d have any effect on their play, or on our budget, as we’re not likely to have cap space by the time they could possibly hit free agency anyway.
by as11osu on May 22, 2009 3:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The possible problem I see
Is, let’s say Conley ain’t all that (and a bag of baby carrots). His pencil thin pedo-mustache creeps everyone out. He just doesn’t work out well next to Roy, for whatever reason.
Does peeving off Conley, and thus his dad, hurt our relationship with Oden? Yes, probably.
Oden is more important than Conley, but we would have to treat Conley as important (and as carefully) when it may not be in our best interest.
Of course, I trust KP implicitly, and if we get Conley, I’m sure he thinks he’s a keeper.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on May 22, 2009 3:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even if we just want MC Jr. as a backup
we can take care of him financially. We’ll be over the cap, and thus salary cap space won’t be an issue at that point anyway. If GO is performing like he must be, for this to even be an issue, we’re probably looking A okay in everyone’s eyes. Probably winning Championships too. Again, even with the baseline of whats expected, I don’t see us needing to yank MC Jr. around. And that pedo-mustache is what makes him so endearing… … at least to Greg.
by as11osu on May 22, 2009 4:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we are winning championships
Paul Allen will happily pay the luxery tax yearly to keep our core here long term. Even if we have to resort to our bench being late round draft picks, castoffs from other teams or “projects”.
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 23, 2009 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
A few of our players have the same agent. Arn Tellem is the primary agent for: Brandon Roy, LaMarcus Aldridge, Martell Webster & Joel Freeland. Was also the secondary agent of Ike Diogu.
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 23, 2009 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And trading Diogu made him hate us obviously!
by Zaig on May 26, 2009 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe if he was Diogu's DAD
And as a dad he felt like we were screwing his boy by not playing him, he’d maybe be angry.
The main difference aside from being a parent is, Arn Tellem is a pro agent. He could likely put business first, over personal feelings. A dad who is acting the role of agent but isn’t really an agent could very possibly not be able do that, for better or worse.
Most agents gotta keep good relationships with all 30 teams for the sake of their versatile client list. A dad repping his son, and his son’s friends (and his son’s friend is who we REALLY want to keep happy) doesn’t.
I’m not saying a problem WILL arise from it, it’s just more likely to arise from it if Conley isn’t that good.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on May 26, 2009 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Conley Sr
isn’t exactly an independent agent. As a guy obviously just recruited to be a frontman for Bill Duffy (I believe) because he could deliver MCJ and Oden to Duffy’s agency, I find it hard to believe that his agency would let him ruin any sort of revenue stream for Oden because of something that happens with his son. In the end, the elder Conley’s employers are all about making money, which makes them (and by extension, him) traditional agents, not soccer dads out to protect their sons at all costs.
I’d imagine when BDA made their deal to hire Conley in exchange for Oden and his son that they laid out the choices that he’d have to make, and I find it really hard to believe that they’d let a blue chip guy like Oden have his career messed up because a team slighted Conley, Jr. in some way.
by Royster on May 26, 2009 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that's true
But he’s still a bigtime advisor in Oden’s life, and if things sour with Conley, it could sour with Oden.
I’m fine with that risk if Conley is worth it, but I’m not sure.
Morty
by Mortimer on May 26, 2009 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Worth it.
Brooks at 24 Vs Conley at 21?… Very nice.
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Rodrigue Beaubois(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 26, 2009 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A nice analysis
The significant reservation I have is that Conley improved his statistics after the all-star break but the team improved only slightly in win % (28.8% to 30.0%). Shouldn’t that production be evident in wins (even for a bad team)?
"What's so interesting is that this team took on a dynamic that was very special. I don't think we as a group, in terms of management, coaches and players, realize what we did as a young team. We broke all the metrics. We broke all the molds. Our challenge is can we continue to do that. As young of a team with 54 wins, no issues off the court, phenomenal chemistry." - Kevin Pritchard
by lee3022 on May 24, 2009 4:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Not if your team is just that bad
Also, Mayo’s shooting % went down the crapper as the year went on IIRC, this would easily make up for Conley’s improvement.
by Zaig on May 26, 2009 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"In fact, the over-dribbling kills the offense."
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo………………
I thought we wanted a veteran point guard. No Conley, no Rubio, no Sessions…trade up, not across…
Good work though…
I have my P.h.D in unreliable hyperbole.
by Eat Politicians on May 25, 2009 3:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
A veteran point guard is fine for this year
but KP and company have long term goals, not just for next season. A guy like Hinrich might be better for next year, but after that, is he really better than Conley Jr? Probably not, especially given Conley Jr’s almost perfect fit with this team and its starting unit. He’s capable of playing exactly like Blake plays, only with more talent, the ability to penetrate and much better defense.
If we’re going to use a bunch of assets to get a point guard, something we should do, it should be for our long term solution, not a 2 or 3 year band-aid. I know a lot of people here have zero patience, but thankfully, I think KP does. You can always have vets coming off the bench.
by as11osu on May 25, 2009 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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