On Criticism
A question was briefly brought up in the sidebar which didn't get much discussion but it gets mentioned every now and again so I wanted to talk about it. The basic gist is:
"Hey Dave, why don't you criticize the team more?"
I figure the best way to answer is by sharing my view of criticism, letting you guys in on how I make decisions whether to criticize or not, and if so how I determine what and how to criticize. It's a crucial issue because at the end of the day I think the quality of a blog and bloggers in general centers around this matter. Also I perceive relatively few people doing it consistently well. I'm not claiming I'm perfect by any means. In fact part of the rationale for doing this is so you'll have a standard to which you can hold me and by which you can measure my work. It may not be your standard exactly, but I'm more or less claiming it as mine. I can't really violate it without putting something out there I'd consider substandard, or worse...untrue to myself.
If you're not that interested, the Joel Przybilla season review is right below. I'm sure there will be more posts today as well. If you'd care to peruse this one, it's after the jump.
Let me start by going off on a semi-tangent. I've read a few theories about my blogging, my stances, and my persona over the last couple of years. Almost without exception they've been pretty far off base. One of the most distressing things I find in this endeavor is how quickly and irrevocably people want to pigeonhole you. I love communication. I enjoy its complexity, texture, and vibrancy. I believe it requires time and patience, listening and empathy...all of the things that comprise the noblest parts of being human. I take it quite seriously and give my heart to it.
I don't perceive everyone taking that same approach. I think today's world with its vast wellspring of words--most cheap and rushed--encourages people to shortcut the process. If you can apply a label to somebody's work you can assume what they say without actually considering it. We cruise through 60 stories in a 30-minute newscast, each reduced to a supposedly crucial sound-bite. We attempt to get through as many customers in a day as possible, employing so many assumptions about what they're going to tell us that our interaction can be reduced to, "If you're this person, press 1. If you're that person, press 2." We identify more and more strongly with parties and organizations and stances that seemingly mean (and do) less and less, choosing our sides by label more than action.
Personally I think the world would be a better place if we each reduced the number of word-sources we gave credence to but engaged more deeply and passionately with those we did choose to hearken to. How much richer would our lives be, for instance, if we cut out 80,000 words a day we heard from a Rush Limbaugh-type program and spent that time considering words to share with our spouses or teachers? (That's not to impugn Rush. I imagine many people would choose his program as one of their desired sources. It's just an example.) I believe most interactions should be unique, treasured, and meaningful...even if in a lighthearted or escapist way. That's pretty much how I approach this blog. That's what I strive for. I don't have time to do a ton of other things besides this, my family, my day job, and some good friendships. But hopefully I do those well.
So perhaps you'll understand why it's frustrating to have the work summed up as, "Well he's a this" or "He takes this stance because he's a pastor" or what have you. Many things play into our choices, including the choice of how to criticize, but they're seldom linear or simple. Almost never can they be accurately contained in a one-size-fits-all label. In fact the umbrellas of such labels are so impossibly large that even when they're nominally accurate, the people who fit under them usually have little in common. Many fellow pastors think I'm an odd duck, for instance. It brings me great shame to be associated in any way with certain others. Meanwhile others have become good friends, including some who are quite different from me. And yet all of us get painted with the same brush as if we--our reactions, views, and voices--are completely interchangeable.
Were I to cater to the common instinct, however, I'd say my target guide-word for deciding what I post is "truth". I write what I see. I share what comes out of my best powers of insight and study and experience and extrapolation. Right or wrong, accurate or misled, that's what you see every day. I don't print anything I don't see as true or correct. That includes whatever criticism I offer. That criticism cannot be removed from the context of this basic philosophy, nor of the complexity of the interaction. For me it's not as simple as just "adding more". Doing so involves shifting the deeply-held philosophical underpinnings that have shaped this blog as well as my conception of truth.
And really, the truth about the criticism (or lack thereof) here is simple. Even the comparative B.E. greybeards among you can only claim to have read my public writing for 2-3 years or so. That's the extent of your experience with me. What has happened to this team in the last 2-3 years? Only one of the most astonishing transformations we've seen in a sports team in our lifetime. This has been true off the court and on. We've gone from the depths of the Jailblazers to the heights of a team that inspires even enemy fans to wax with admiration, confessing envy, appreciation, and maybe even some clandestine rooting. We've gone from 21 wins to 32 to 41 to an amazing 54 wins and there's still growth left to explore. Every bit of it looks at least sustainable, if not exceed-able. If you look at overall trends I'm hard-pressed to see the downside. In this overwhelmingly positive environment most of the commentary is positive because that's the truth. Wins, losses, and forward progress are the name of the game and this team is playing that game very well.
Now, if you were able to talk to the select handful of people who knew my writing before it went public they would tell you that the stuff they heard from me wasn't nearly as positive. And frankly, if four years from now we still haven't gotten out of the first round of the playoffs you're going to hear a different tone than you hear right now. But that's not where we are. Honestly I'll be quite happy if I'm able to write mostly positive things about this team all the way to an NBA Championship or four. I've been through the dark years. Before that I went through a host of early playoff exits and frustrated dreams even in the later exits. I much prefer these trends to those.
Of course there are things to criticize even on an upward-trending team. I think we do a pretty good job of that too. If you hear something from me you can be pretty sure that it's grounded in reality, or at least as close as I can get. Believe me, I feel bad after losses. Sometimes I feel angry. Once we got in the playoffs my angst was off the charts. I live and die with this stuff. And sometimes I just want to let loose with a rant too. But this blog has never been just about my feelings. I don't feel like people want to read "Dave's Edge" and I don't think the work would be nearly as strong that way. This site covers the Blazers. That's a topic that's above all of us and above any of our feelings. If this site is going to be about the Blazers that implies some kind of grounding in the team which I need to follow even when what I'm yelling at the TV sounds different than what I end up writing here.
Everything I give you comes through my own eyes, but I strive to add the broader perspective...when I can the team's perspective. The team may be angry about an outcome, but they're not in the locker room ranting for very long. They're analyzing what went wrong and figuring out how to fix it. Sometimes they're saying, "Forget this game. Tomorrow's another day." When I perceive those moments I write those moments. That shapes the way I criticize.
If you're looking for somebody to jump off the deep end after every loss and yell about how the coach should be fired, you're in the wrong place. Part of me may feel that way, but that's not the best part of me nor is it relevant to the proceedings. Besides, there are a thousand places you can read that. For the most part this place should be different. There's a place for those expressions to be sure, but it's not front and center on the main page. The main page posts are where you go after you've blown off the steam and you want to know what went into creating it and how the team's going to deal with it.
Someday you may see a post from me calling for the coach to be fired. I'm not saying that's an illegitimate or unapproachable topic. But hopefully because of the quality and character of the analysis you've seen from me in the meantime that moment will be more "Holy crap!" than "That's crap!" No matter the subject if you know it's legit when I've said it then I've done my work well. And I'll trade off ten thousand chances to rant for that trust and credibility. The bargain isn't even close.
When you deal with enough people over an extended period of time you learn some things. I am taken care of well here. I probably receive less crap and criticism than most any blogger you know, especially the folks writing on this level for this broad of an audience. So please, I am not complaining here, rather explaining...letting you into my shoes for a moment.
When I don't offer a bunch of criticism, there will always be people who say that I'm a homer or pandering to the team or what have you. But then when I do offer criticism, more often than not people will criticize the criticism.
I remember my basic assessment of Rudy Fernandez last summer was that he was going to be fine--probably quite good--offensively and energy-wise but that he was going to have trouble playing defense in the NBA with his body and the style he was used to employing. Say hello to the flood of outrage. Obviously I was underselling Rudy or being grumpy or I didn't know enough about Europeans or basketball or what have you. Fast forward a year and Rudy has been a good offensive player and provided a lot of energy. He's having trouble defensively, more so when playing outside of his natural position. He, himself said during the playoffs that other players pay more attention to that aspect of the game and so are playing more.
All last summer--whether here, on the podcast, on the radio--whenever anybody asked me about Greg Oden my mantra was the same: "Greg is going to be an impact player who changes the Blazers' game but you're not going to see the full effect this year." I said it so much that I got sick of saying it. Before the season started I heard from people who were certain that Greg was going to take the league by storm right away. After the season commenced I heard from people who were convinced that Greg was a bust. 82 games and one playoff series later, what's the book on Oden? He had a tangible effect on the game but he didn't reach full flower this year. Most folks think he will improve over the next couple of years and become a great piece for this team.
Obviously I'm picking prominent and favorable examples to illustrate my point. But it does generally hold true that when I analyze and criticize I've learned not to let other folks affect whether and how and how much. I adjust for my audience, certainly. I might put things a certain way here and a slightly different way on the radio and a different way altogether when interviewing with an opponent's blog. You have to frame words not just by what you want to say, but by how people are going to hear them. But other than those minor adjustments, I pretty much say what I say and live with it. I'm hardly perfect, but almost all the time I make sense (hopefully) and I'm usually happy to own what I've said.
I also have a few other tenets that guide my criticism:
I understand that not everything will go optimally. Basketball is a game of mistakes and compensating for them. Every team and every player screws up. The best teams and players know not to let that affect their play too much.
I will tend to criticize less if I feel the subject at hand wouldn't have altered the outcome of the game. This is a prime reason you hear less criticism in a 54-win season. Do you really have scenarios in which this team could have and should have won 60? I don't. That means a good part of my criticism is moot. Keep in mind also that this year, for the first time in ages, this team was actually playing players who were suited for their roles. They weren't stuck having to play a bunch of guys with glaring weaknesses and no experience just to fill a spot. You can live with a guy's shortcomings better when he's playing 5 non-critical minutes a game than when he's playing 20 minutes in a crucial role.
A corollary: Just as I won't glam things up to ingratiate myself to the home crowd, I won't go out of my way to criticize to make myself look smart. If 92 things went right in a game and 4 went wrong, I'm going to spend more energy on the 92. There will be plenty of times when things legitimately go wrong. Nitpicking in the good times doesn't make sense.
I also don't find it productive to criticize an elephant for not dancing ballet. We discover players' strengths and weaknesses as we see them. Those need to be spelled out as we begin to encounter them, every time they affect the game, and for purposes of ascertaining how much we need the player and how they fit into the future of the team. Other than those contexts, I don't think they need to be repeated ad nauseum. We know Travis Outlaw hasn't been the best defender. That was established years ago. It's not news. The only time it really needs mentioned is when it obviously blows a game for us or when it looks like it's changing, such as when he does a better job. What this ends up looking like is Travis' defense not getting mentioned much except when he has a positive night. What that translates into for some is, "Dave is glossing over Travis' deficiencies! He only mentions the positive!" That's not entirely accurate. It's just boring to write and read the same obvious assessment 72 out of 82 games.
I don't tend to criticize much when there's no ready solution available. Player X might be inept defensively but if Player Y who plays behind him is just as inept, what exactly is the point of calling for Player X's head? What are we going to do in the middle of the third quarter in Game 46? Call for his head in the off-season when we can actually consider making a trade.
I tend to give rookies more leeway than other players. Harping on a rookie for making mistakes is like harping on the sky for being blue. It's a rare rookie that doesn't. And just because we've seen one of those exceptional rooks in Brandon Roy doesn't make that the measuring stick for every guy we draft.
The exception to all of the above points is when I see people questioning why these players aren't playing more or playing in different situations. Once that noise reaches a certain volume I will usually do my best to explain why you're seeing what you're seeing. That explanation may include bringing up obvious weaknesses or rookie mistakes and the message sometimes has to be repeated.
I also think the game and its relationships are more nuanced than many people give credit for. One of the things I've been asked is why I don't talk about Brandon Roy's defense more. And it's true, Roy's defense is not up to the rest of his game. We don't mention that often. He's not inept, but sometimes you'll see him giving up on plays defensively, an action that would almost certainly bring a response were it to happen with other prominent Blazers. However Brandon's role on this team is different than that of other players. He has to carry this team on offense so often. He also has to expend a huge amount of energy getting those halfcourt layups and fouls that we all love and that nobody else on this team can get with the same frequency or results. In a perfect world Brandon would also be busting his butt equally on defense every play. But it's not perfect and his performance isn't entirely out of line with other players who carry their team's offensive load but only play defense their hardest when it's needed.
Brandon picks up his teammates offensively when they can't do it themselves. It's their responsibility to rally around him defensively sometimes when he can't do it himself. Usually when you notice Brandon blowing a defensive play you're noticing precisely because that hasn't happened. Brandon's teammates don't have the same chops that he does nor do they fulfill the same role on the team that he does. So they get called out for not fulfilling that responsibility more than he does.
You may agree or disagree with the philosophy involved, but I'm pretty sure this is also how the team approaches it. I would be willing to wager there's far more talk of surrounding Brandon with better defensive help than there is of getting Brandon himself to be a better defender. Thus there's value in hearing that perspective.
Finally, I don't believe all suffering is redemptive. Some losses are just losses. There's not always something to be learned from them. This is especially true of blowouts. Losing by 30 seems to get everybody riled up the most. That's actually the time when I feel there's the least amount of productive criticism to be had. What went wrong? Freakin' everything. And most of it was linked. Crap happens. You shake it off and start again tomorrow. If you start listing off the shortcomings you're going to be here forever. To what point? Most of it will be better the next game. We seldom lose by 30 twice in a row. If you only isolate a few shortcomings and blame it on them then you've done the recipients a disservice and described the situation incompletely and thus inaccurately.
This was also true in a different way of the playoff series this year. What happened there? Houston was stronger, more intense, made more of the right plays, and knew what the heck they were doing. The Blazers got smashed right out of the gate and it became pretty apparent that they'd have to get lucky to make it up. Luck seldom influences a seven-game series. And that's the end of it. You can talk about this or that player or event but in truth those factors probably weren't going to turn the series. As it turned out, Houston was simply more likely to win. No matter how you rearrange the cards a straight still beats two pair. No matter how hard the kings and jacks try, when the hands hit the table they're the ones getting mucked. Yelling at or about them won't change that.
I would never stop anyone from (reasonably) criticizing the team, even if I disagree with their points. One of the reasons I started blogging was that in the old days the fan base had ebbed so far that only the most vehement of supporters remained to talk about the team. In that environment it was all but impossible to offer a criticism, even a legitimate one, without getting shouted down and impugned as a fan. It was not healthy in the least. "Positive talk only" is a concept I revile, as I believe it's an attempt to conceal the weakness of a team and its surrounding community rather than a sign of strength.
Honestly, I don't believe you'll get through a week of the season without reading several critical comments from me. Perhaps it'll be clearer now where that criticism comes from and why you're not reading certain things in my posts. Criticism is part of the game, part of the fan experience, and part of blogging. I'd never want to change that. I simply want to do it well and with the same integrity that guides the rest of my writing.
--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)
133 comments
|
17 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Wow.
Good stuff. Thanks for taking the time to write this.
Honestly, I’ve always thought you were really fair and even handed when dishing out criticism. It’s a breath of fresh air in the sports world, where it seems like the people who make the most outrageous and polarizing claims are the ones who get the most exposure. In a way, writing in a reasoned and rational manner is taking a huge risk. I spend a lot of time reading stuff on other SBN blogs and I’m always struck by how lucky Blazer fans are to have a place like this. The recaps, podcasts, etc., are all really excellent.
No criticisms here.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on May 15, 2009 3:30 AM PDT reply actions
The same criticisms get old quickly
Outlaw doesn’t play D
Sergio can’t shoot
LaMarcus shot too many jumpers
Oden got in foul trouble
We know these things, we see them more often when the team loses. Blaming and criticizing individual players when we lose doesn’t get us anywhere. Seldom (maybe never) does a single person cost us the game and we don’t learn anything from an aggregate list of every forced shot Outlaw took or how many bad foul Oden got. I like Dave’s approach to losses and to the team’s flaws. There isn’t much to critique on an up and coming 54 win team unless you’re nitpicking (many of us hardcore fans are guilty of this) and we’ve heard the standard criticisms hundreds of times. Personally, being overly critical is just unsatisfying, especially toward a team that did so well.
Regarding the semi-tangent, I completely agree. As a society we tend to stereotype, pigeon-hole and label people because it’s easier, quicker, and many people don’t care enough to get past the superficial. I don’t know if it’s an evolutionary trait (quick inferences save your life from a tiger) or a product of the fast-paced world we live in, but I do know it causes many conflicts. Regardless of the cause, it is really a shame that more people don’t try to understand the complexity and richness of other people’s lives, beliefs, opinions, etc. I know that I have been guilty (and still am much of the time) of stereotyping people, but I find that when I don’t reduce people down to a caricature that not only do I learn a ton, but I also gain a greater appreciation for other opinions, even if I disagree with them.
This problem is even more prevalent on the internet. It’s so easy to label someone after they leave a 4 line anonymous comment. Usually, there is no personal context. We aren’t speaking to friends (well maybe some of us on this site are) who we know well and have background information on. So, we end up assuming the entirety of a person’s opinions based on almost no information. It’s really a shame. I think it stifles a lot of good conversation or ends up diverting the conversation toward criticizing stereotypes.
In the case of this basketball blog, people get labeled homers and haters. Instead of discussion of what to do next year we get people accusing each other of being too optimistic/pessimistic. The latest high profile example of this is probably Ben’s “Bayless Man Love” and the article about Steve Blake. Sometimes it felt like people were more interested in talking about “Bayless Homerism” rather than discussing content.
Ok, I think I’ll end my rant there.
Thanks for the great post, Dave!
"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"
by Magnum on May 15, 2009 4:18 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
"Regarding the semi-tangent...."
The paragraph that started with this was interesting. I think generalities and pigeonholing serve the same purpose as digital compression. When you compress a photo or video, you are basically ignoring all the similar colored pixals (all the large red areas for instance) this allows us just focus on the fine details and thus make our job evaluating people much easier. We kinda of do the same thing with players in sports. We pigeonhole Battier as the same as Bowen….and Batum is the next Batier/Bowen (hey they all start with the letter B. Weird!). Thus we don’t have to think much about any of the three (saving time, I guess, since they are all 3 pt shootin’ defensive specialists), but truth is that they are 3 very different players. We miss a lot by not evealuating them individually and Batum might not live up to his potential if he is pigeon holed in just this role.
"You're welcome friend
I love you."
- Tom "Dragline" inHawaii
by 92wastheyear on May 15, 2009 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't know why Dave should criticize them more because everything we say, or Dave could say isn't anything that Kevin Pritchard doesn't already know.
It’s not like the Blazers management is very happy that Greg is going home for the summer, for example.
I think the issue is that you don't subscribe to the Simon Cowell "truth" model
A lot of people these days think that if you aren’t being mean, you aren’t really being honest.
great call...
There are so many bloggers on this site that are, IMO, so quick to “jump off the deep end” about the Blazers players, coach and fans who are supportive… simply because things aren’t perfect yet, and the entire team hasn’t “arrived” as being a legitimate contendor. I feel like the heavy minority because I am a believer in the “timeline” and “patience” for this young group. There are almost too many people on here that are, again IMO, overly-critical of the Professional Athletes that we discuss on this blog. I mean, these guys are all professional athlets… the 1% of studs who make it to their place in the world of sports, yet so many of the BlazersEdge family rip these guys for being garbage, or lazy, or whatever negatives that simply umbrella all or parts of these players games. Players who have been the best of the best from high school, through college and now in the NBA. It would get on my nerves to the point where I felt like the only thing I could do to counteract this behavior is reply to each post with a “blog-handle”= hater comment. I know this is name calling, but what took Dave 10,000 words to describe in this post, takes me writting “=hater” posts for these people who I feel are over-simplistically criticizing and “jumping of the cliff”.
I really appreciate the way Dave addresses his opinions and ideas on this blog. As Dave said above, “Just as I won’t glam things up to ingratiate myself to the home crowd, I won’t go out of my way to criticize to make myself look smart.” This is a key description of his analysis style… one that I would align myself with…. I guess other bloggers here might characterize me as someone who would “Glam things up” in favor of my homerisms, and this feeling is the driver of why I believe that B.E. is home to TOO MANY “Cliff Jumpers” rather than believers. I may call the cliff-jumpers “haters”, and that is because I want to consistently communicate on this blog that it feels like too many are in a competition to be the biggest hater, or the most critical of NBA skill-sets and players. All in all, I like the back and forth that is on here, but wish more people would have the calm and consistent approach to thinking, reacting and writting that Dave delivers every day on here. Thanks Dave.
by Portland Dynasty on May 15, 2009 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions
There is a fine point here that people often miss
And that is the difference between being pointed, and being blunt. The two are widely confused, but vastly different. One is tuning an engine with a precise instrument. Get in, get out, make the adjustments, get it done efficiently. The other is tuning an engine with a rock, or a sledgehammer. I’ll let the reader decide which is the more effective tactic.
I wouldn't mind reading "Dave's Edge"
But I would much refer to read Blazersedge. And that is why so many of us rarely go an entire day without logging on to this site. What really hits home for me in this post is how you publicly react to loses. After loses I used to come on Bedge to hear everyone rant and to do a little of it myself, but now I log on to read your recap because it reminds me that tomorrow is another day. I love the level headedness and big picture focus that you bring to this blog Dave, and for that I thank you.
www.freeoden.com Coming soon
by 123_G.O._RipCity on May 15, 2009 6:12 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Truth
Well I gotta say, I LOVE the honesty. That and the really in depth coverage you provide here. I have been accusd of and found guilty at times of being a bandwagon surfer, but have been a Blazer fan since 1976 (I was 5). I have found you and the other Blazer media outlets recently and have been surprised by the amount of negativity that’s thrown around by “fans” of the team and evenmore so by some of the personal attacks on the writers for being “homers” and “too positive” in their posts. Personally, I enjoy every bit of news on the teamthat I can get. I do prefer the positive approach to the Coach bashing or Travis bashing of some of the responses. I do have my opinions about the way things have gone, but they are just that. My opinions. Not the end all be all and you better not disagree withme or i will call you out and personally attack you. I want to thank you and will refrain from telling you to “keep it up” because I have no doubt that you will.
+1
“surprised by the amount of negativity that’s thrown around by “fans” of the team and evenmore so by some of the personal attacks on the writers for being "homers"and “too positive” in their posts"
by Portland Dynasty on May 15, 2009 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I am here
because of your writing style and the community culture that arises from it.
Love it.
Bedge or go home.
by Ojala John on May 15, 2009 6:24 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
^this
I am no longer able to participate in this discussion due to a moderators request...
by TrentEdwardsHoF2018
by Screen Name on May 15, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Dave, you didn't NEED to write this...
But I am very glad you did. I ended up here, as I imagine many others have BECAUSE of your even handed perspective on something that all of us are passionate about. The line between Blogging and Journalism is still as yet to be defined. Sports blogging is in its infancy still but I think you and a few others, ( I like Henry’s work at Truehoop a lot as well), are helping to define the medium.
I agree with timg56 that this should be on the required reading list for New BEdgers. Having a place to vent is a perfectly good thing…but If I just want a place to bitch I will go to a bar or a L*kers blog. I love the variety on this site…this community as it were, but it is your personality that keeps this site the envy of all others.
Thanks for everything.
RoadBlazer
Dave, I don't want to criticize you
But you may’ve given too much thought to the rantings of an attention-crazed ultraminority.
The reason there are so many active users is because you and Ben do such a great job and offer keen analysis which is also fun to read.
by jiminut on May 15, 2009 6:42 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
you never know what's gonna set off the thoughtful...
I am no longer able to participate in this discussion due to a moderators request...
by TrentEdwardsHoF2018
by Screen Name on May 15, 2009 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Dave, I'm not sure I understand....
Could you re-type this post with more detail?
That would be great….Thanks.
2-4 the who
by 24thewho on May 15, 2009 6:57 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
or in the style of Fatty.
"It's better to have a good player with the basketball in late game situations than to have plays." - R. Pitino
"I asked a ref if he could give me a technical foul for thinking bad things about him. He said, of course not. I said, well, I think you stink. And he gave me a technical. You can't trust em."- Jimmy V
Go Blazers!!
Excellent post!
I’m new to the blog world, but this site became my favorite right away. I love both the reasoned analysis and the crazy, wacky, over the top ranting (good & bad). Why? Because it’s reflective of our shared passion and obsession with the Blazers and it’s just downright fun to read!
Keep it up!
by blazergrl on May 15, 2009 7:06 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I'm glad I made it through that!
I like the part where you talk about how there are times you want to rant and rave after a lose but that is “not the best part of you”. I agree that trying to find out why and trying to find solutions an endeavor that the team itself is more likely to take on. Thats why your writing makes me feel closer to the team.
I hate to pigeonhole you, but perhaps one thing you are is an optimist. Or as least you do not find joy in pointing out the bad over and over, it doesn’t make you better than the object of your criticism. Some people seem to get pleasure from dissecting the failures of others, or they want things to fit into a sad or negative world view. I think that your point is that you are not shying away from the negative, you make it clear, but the direction of your thought it to how to make the future better. Good Stuff.
I don't think you were critical enough on yourself in this post Dave
Just kidding, I sort of agree with jiminut, the person who accused you of not being critical enough I don’t think has been around here long enough to know your style, or has a very bad comprehension of BE if they have been here for a while.
"The problem with tweeners is that sometimes they’re exactly what you need to plug the hole and sometimes they are the hole."
-LaughingJon
thanks
Dave – great piece. While I am a very new member of this community and MUCH more of a lurker than an active poster (mainly because my basketball and Blazer knowledge base is relatively puny compared to most of you! ;) ) I agree with your major points.
There IS a place for criticism, of course, I can’t imagine there has been even a single lone fan in the history of sports teams that didn’t criticize from time to time, but rolling over the same speed bumps time and time again is fruitless.
Thanks for all the time you put into this!
Rob
Thank You, Mr Wizard!
I love this place. I love the insight, the banter, and the sense of community. It has been my private little refuge in a raging sea of economic turmoil during this past year.
Dave, I appreciate you pulling back the curtain a little bit and talking about the process and thinking behind the scenes. You do a great job, and I have learned a great deal over the couple of years I have been hanging out. My experience as a fan has been greatly enriched by participating in this site. Thank you for making it happen.
Before I close, I do have to tease you just a bit as is my wont. It is funny that the poster you cited views you as not being critical enough. I have given you a hard time on several occasions for not being enthusiastic enough. I gave you grief for your pre-season prediction of 45-46 wins. I thought you were overly pessimistic. I gave you grief for your post-season analysis here: http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/5/5/865356/the-season-in-review-a-final-recap# and accused you of having Eeyore tendencies. I guess you can’t please everyone all the time, but you certainly please most of us a great deal.
by upper left corner on May 15, 2009 8:03 AM PDT reply actions
An observation and a question
For what it’s worth. I think the most impressive thing about your “style” of criticism is that you do not overreact to a single game or play. The vast majority of criticism by most media outlets is “reactionary criticism”: something bad happened and the pundits give their take on it. This “take” is usually explaining why the bad thing happened and why it will continue to happen. By contrast, your criticism is almost always about major trends or patterns — even if referring to a specific game you only go into depth about something negative if it has happened frequently. This is really refreshing, but may be shocking to some people. .
I find it interesting that you mentioned the word coach twice and never Nate or McMillan. Almost all of the examples were of players; few were on coaching strategy, other than why a certain player was playing. Would you care to elaborate on your philosophy for criticizing coaching decisions, schemes, etc?
(By the way, I’m not so much interested in criticizing coaches, but in discussing coaching strategy—which often requires or implies a criticism of past decisions. In other words, I do not mind that you do not offer much judgment of Nate as a coach (is he a good coach or a bad one), but sometimes feel that a rich discussion of tactics and strategies—which I think you are capable of doing—is missing here).
by PoliSam on May 15, 2009 8:06 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I hope there is a season in review post devoted to
what you said in the second paragraph. Coaching strategy is one of the most visible aspects of the game, yet I wonder if we’re all afraid to start those discussions for fear they will devolve into “Fire Nate” one liners.
"The match in Los Angeles is a good opportunity to begin to demonstrate that we want to make war." Rudy Fernández (translated)
I meant the last paragraph
"The match in Los Angeles is a good opportunity to begin to demonstrate that we want to make war." Rudy Fernández (translated)
add on the capable
I loved your breakdown of must does before the first game against the Rockets — a lot of it was tactical or strategic — and a lot of it proved to be prophetic. When the Blazers used movement in the half-court offense, they scored; when the offense got stagnant, they were shut down.
I guess I should have added another tenet
I believe that we fans are severely biased towards blaming coaches and referees, so I tend to stay away from both unless there’s obvious need. It’s not so much that the criticisms are wrong, even (though often they are). Blog-wise it’s the difference between running normally and running on a treadmill. Criticizing most aspects of the game we can get somewhere. Criticizing the coach is just expending a lot of energy that’s going nowhere. You seldom hear anything you haven’t heard a million times before. You could get that stuff from any message board in the universe.
In general I tend to take a long-term, big-picture view of the coaches. I look at the remarkable increase in wins and say, “They have to be doing something right.” Yes, there are things I think should be different. But it’s tricky to tell how it’s all connected. Who knows if my changes wouldn’t tip everything over? The CEO of ultra-successful Southwest Airlines once said that everybody thought they could do the Southwest model but they just wanted to change one or two things that they thought they knew how to do better. Anyone who tried, failed. The model was as it was for a reason.
As I said in the post, I’m not sure I have any ideas that would get us to 60 wins. Therefore there isn’t much room for criticism. Pretty much as long as the wins are there, the coach is doing his job in my book. If they’re not there you still consider the coach as part of the whole rather than singling him out for blame unless it’s patently obvious that something is going way wrong with the coaching staff. In other words, where most people will turn to the coach first when assigning blame, I will turn to him last. Almost always I find sufficient other reasons for what’s going wrong before I get to him.
—Dave
I saw an article a while back
that pretty much said that the only real difference a coach has (outside of a few, select, John Wooden-level coaches in history) is if he is really inept. Otherwise, he doesn’t really have a huge impact. I’m not sure I agree totally but I do agree that there are usually other, larger, and easier to address holes.
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
I'll say this
Dave’s posts consistently have a lot more ‘criticism’ of the Blazers than mine do. As much as I try to be objective, I know that I give the organization perhaps more leniency than I should. So, in my mind, Dave beats me on the objectivity scale – leaving me with no room to criticize him on this issue.
Will any of your reasonable thinking ever run off on Ben Golliver?
Ben’s analysis of Blake’s season on O-Live was pathetic. I guess it was meant to sway people to hate him, and not necessarily an analysis.
How does he logically turn Blake’s good 3-point shooting into a reason why Greg wasn’t developing fast enough? When a person makes a desperate stretch like that, you know they are full of sh**, or incapable of objective thinking.
Thank you Dave for bring a calm and objective tone to sports writing.
Ben's piece on Oregonlive was more difficult to write than most of what you read here from anyone
Taking a clearly articulated stance and defending it is not easy in journalism. Unlike most posters here, he also knew he fairly likely will have to face Blake again in the future – if he is still here or as a guest with an opposing team – and Blake might have read the analysis or been told about it. Remember that Greg didn’t take Quick’s “underwhelming” comment lightly? Ben better believes what he wrote is true and can stand up to it, while Blake can say “that’s what my doubters always said” and prove him wrong.
If his readers don’t follow the argumentation or have another opinion that doesn’t make it pathetic to write it. It wasn’t insulting. He might have erred, but it was a lot more well founded than some of the inflammatory board comments that followed below it. Yes it was a more poignant criticism than what we are used to see here or in the Oregonian. But an independent newspaper shouldn’t just be the extended organ of the Blazers PR department spreading feel good stories. And the Oregonian sports department is probably happy with the interest it generated. Canzano tried to followed it up the next day with a much more useless “Bayless vs. Jack” paragraph.
Ben complements Dave very well in his writing. He arrived at a conclusion about a player, and voiced it coherently probably knowing it wouldn’t be popular. I respect that just as much as Dave’s criticisms.
"Officiating has to be a science, not an art" - Rick Carlisle
by Norsktroll on May 15, 2009 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ben's stance was not articulate or reasonable.
I could write 5 pages about the existence of Santa Claus and make it sound articulate. You can recognize what a player has meant to his team’s overachieving season (avg. 3rd most minutes and 4th in pts.) and be critical of his game at the same time. Dave is proof of that. I just hope Ben would never replace Dave or be given a similar job in the future. If BE is the place to go for objective and thoughtful analysis, then we now know Ben is incapable of that.
by RABID_RABBIT on May 15, 2009 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Ben was looking at the next step: Can Blake be a championship point guard
His opinion is he can’t be, and thus a new starter needs to be found. The piece was opinionated and contained harsh criticism. But if his opinion is that change is needed knowing that a significant part of the readership has a different opinion, then recapping what a nice player Blake is and closing with ‘well maybe it will all work out fine if he improves a bit’ doesn’t cut it.
Ben has written many positive pieces on BE about the team and the organization, he isn’t a negative naysayer. His style of critique is more brusque and direct than Dave’s while both are perfectly capable of writing clearly and thoughtfully what they like and don’t like in a player after observing him for a while.
"Officiating has to be a science, not an art" - Rick Carlisle
That seems to make sense
Criticism of their playing abilities can often come off like a criticism of them as people. Blake has even treated it as such in the past, but anybody who’s received a performance review can sympathize.
Just because a guy isn’t a championship ____, doesn’t mean he’s a total bum. Instead of being one of the 10 best PGs in the world, Blake might only be one of the top 25. Not a crime.
I'm not saying he (or anyone else) can't be critical of the team or its players, but....
he can make his argument in a different way and without manufacturing criticism (turning all the positives of a player into negatives). He made the argument that Blake’s 3-point shooting hurt the team, which is not a valid argument anyway you spin it, and that his assist/turnover ratio was a “lie”.
And I don’t mind harsh criticism if necessary. If the team had under achieved this year and Blake did not contribute like he did, then I would say any reason to argue “we need a new PG” is a valid one. But that couldn’t be further from the truth. He had to create criticism where none existed (I’ll repeat: Ben argued Blake’s 3pt shooting hurt the team).
I was just very disappointed that he was given a large platform and only offered up desperate arguments, and that it came from someone representing this site, since I do enjoy reading Dave’s recaps/thoughts and many of the others who post on here (yours included).
And if Ben can dish out such opinionated and harsh criticism, then he should certainly be able to take some as well.
PS: I apologize for using sh** in my original post.
by RABID_RABBIT on May 15, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn't say incapable,
just less consistent in practice.
Trust me, I’ve been reading this blog a long time, Ben is getting better. He brings a few things that are otherwise missing. But admittedly, I never did read his Blake post, cause I was suspicious of what the content would be…
I am no longer able to participate in this discussion due to a moderators request...
by TrentEdwardsHoF2018
by Screen Name on May 15, 2009 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I reread his piece thinking I may be overreacting. I’m not. It was very insulting.
Steve Blake was expected to play a role this year and he executed that role very well, and it was a big reason the Blazers exceeded expectations. Role (as I see it): be the extension of Nate on the floor, bring the ball up, get it into the right hands, make your open shots, spread the floor for your teammates, and don’t turn the ball over. It was insulting to diminish the role he was expected to play by the team, into "lies" "airballs" "myth" "jacking 3s". The tone was very incendiary and unnecessary.
Oh come on now, how is Blake supposed to prove Ben wrong? Blake played very well this year and did everything that was asked of him. Ben just doesn’t like the type of player he is and it would never matter how well Blake plays. Ben would always create a new reason to criticize.
In response to: "If his readers don’t follow the argumentation or have another opinion that doesn’t make it pathetic to write it"
If his opinion is "We need a new PG" , I don’t think that is pathetic. His argument "Blake’s 3-point shooting is hurting Greg Oden’s development" is pathetic. He could have backed up his opinon without denigrating Blake’s accomplishments and using them against him.
In response to: "He might have erred, but it was a lot more well founded than some of the inflammatory board comments that followed below it"
Please don’t compare his article to the people who post comments at OLive. If this is the standard for which you hold Ben, then BE is not what I thought it was.
I don’t care that the Oregonian likes "edgy" , "reactionary" material like Canzano, that’s why I come here to read Dave’s and all of your comments. And I hope you are not encouaging that he follows the Canzano mold.
And I’m not some Blake superfan. If it was Sergio or Bayless who were as big contributors to such a sucessful season, I would be defending them as well. It’s about fairness and objectivity, none of which were shown in Ben’s article.
In response to: "He arrived at a conclusion about a player, and voiced it coherently probably knowing it wouldn’t be popular"
Now I have arrived at a conclusion about a writer and voiced it coherently probably knowing it wouldn’t be popular. I hope I can garner the same understanding.
by RABID_RABBIT on May 15, 2009 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
^this
I am no longer able to participate in this discussion due to a moderators request...
by TrentEdwardsHoF2018
Not the place for this
I know what you mean, I could go off, but this just seems like something you don’t need to say, especially on this thread. I say ignore. Your buttons may be pushed at times (I’ve erased posts after I cooled down that I worked a long time on) but really, if you don’t like it you don’t have to read or comment. Just know where it’s coming from, laugh a little to yourself, and move on.
It took my two years to come up with an avatar and sig
and this is the best I could come up with.
Then where is the place? Has this already been addressed?
I haven’t seen a thread regarding Ben’s drudging of Blake. Did I miss it? This was a thread “On Critisism”, and I have a serious problem with the criticisms of someone who represents this site. And why hold back? Ben certainly didn’t hold back on Blake.
And I’m not trying to divide people or mess with what you all have going here. This will be the only time I bring it up. But, it doesn’t seem Ben holds the same value for objective reasoning and rational criticism that you all hold so dear. Why can’t I address that in this thread? I’ve been biting my tongue for awhile.
by RABID_RABBIT on May 15, 2009 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Most of the discussion was buried in the Fanshots, so you could've missed it
Ben Golliver murders Steve Blake. Too bad you’ve been biting your tongue for a while — Ben’s email address is at the end of every front page article he writes.
I've emailed
I’ve never been impressed with his responses. He just comes off as so entitled. I feel like it’s a waste of everyone’s time.
It took my two years to come up with an avatar and sig
and this is the best I could come up with.
since the argument is about Blazersedge all comment regarding Oregonlive.com are irrelevent.
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
Roses are red
violets in bloom
Sophia’s in love
with Nicholas Batum
-Bow4Meow
not so fast
it came from someone representing this site
I am no longer able to participate in this discussion due to a moderators request...
by TrentEdwardsHoF2018
by Screen Name on May 15, 2009 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Given your comment, your screen name seems appropriate.
This isn’t the time or place for a defense of Ben’s piece. Just know that not everyone shares your view. While I might have wished for a more nuanced take from Ben, I believe his central thesis is on the money.
by upper left corner on May 15, 2009 6:51 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't have a problem
…..with the central theme being "Blake will not cut it for a championship team" or "We need another point guard". PG is the weakest position in our lineup, it needs to be looked at. But to take all the good things Blake did this season, which were very important to the Blazer’s success (which I think we can all agree was beyond expectations), and specifically mold those points into irrational criticisms, was a very dickish (I’m sure there is a better word) and unnecessary way of getting his point across. His piece was player bashing at its best….it was scapegoating. And defiantly wasn’t an indicative representation of this site.
by RABID_RABBIT on May 15, 2009 11:26 PM PDT up reply actions
I think you make some good points about Ben's tone and .....
the grudging nature of his acknowledgement of Blake’s considerable contribution to the team’s success this year. But most of Ben’s piece has an argument as to why Blake’s limitations make him unsuited to be the point on a Championship team. By necessity it was not going to sound like a love letter.
Frankly, I think your tone in this thread is equally hyperbolic. Ben’s piece was not, IMO, filled with cheap shots. It was a strongly worded advocacy piece that presented a unvarnished critique of a player’s limitations.
by upper left corner on May 16, 2009 8:50 AM PDT up reply actions
thanks
I read your blog every day and find your honesty, integrity and insight thought provoking and refreshing— thanks so much for your hard work, it fuels many a fire for us Blazer fanatics :-)
Cool Post Dave.
Actually I’m come here daily because…
1. All of the Hot Chicks
2. Info and comedy
3. I am an addict
4. I don’t know how to quit you…
"It's better to have a good player with the basketball in late game situations than to have plays." - R. Pitino
"I asked a ref if he could give me a technical foul for thinking bad things about him. He said, of course not. I said, well, I think you stink. And he gave me a technical. You can't trust em."- Jimmy V
Go Blazers!!
I'm=I ...I apologize for my asianiness.
"It's better to have a good player with the basketball in late game situations than to have plays." - R. Pitino
"I asked a ref if he could give me a technical foul for thinking bad things about him. He said, of course not. I said, well, I think you stink. And he gave me a technical. You can't trust em."- Jimmy V
Go Blazers!!
by DaNoose on May 15, 2009 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Don't sweat the small stuff
Almost everyone here loves you and knows what you put down is as fair as possible. I don’t post much anymore, because I am busy and I get tired of what this site has become, but I read nearly everything that you write and know that you are one of the most fair people I have even come in contact with. Keep it real.
It took my two years to come up with an avatar and sig
and this is the best I could come up with.
I for one
am getting sick of these Blazersedge Elitist Types that are dividing this great site.
i was going to start a fanpost but figured this is a decent place to post this instead of clogging the fanposts.
Blazersedge has room for everyone!
If you Love to Love players like Nic Batum for completely irrational and irrelevent reasons, you have the right to do so. If you have to find some fault in his perfection you are jealous you have the right to.
If you care to enjoy the team from a more relaxed and casual standpoint with the occasional comment that you <3 so and so or u really dislike another .. you can come to bedge.
If you are in love with your wife spreadsheet and feel that the ONLY way to be a fan is if you read realgm every second and graph point differentials then you can come to bedge!
If you are looking for funny posters you can come to bedge (junk drawer —> )
If you like reading really good post game write ups from a talented young up and coming writer, you can come to bedge.
If you like to read really long stories about the more human side of the blazers.. you can come to bedge.
If you like to argue… bedge
trade down for rubio .. bedge
mack on girl(s).. bedge
talk draft..bedge
this place is like Costco… it has everything IN BULK .. dont judge dont be rude. criticize the team (constructively of course) or adopt imaginary love affairs with the players.. whichever you please .. it’s all good ..
-Sophia
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
Roses are red
violets in bloom
Sophia’s in love
with Nicholas Batum
-Bow4Meow
by BlazerFan1 on May 15, 2009 9:35 AM PDT reply actions 12 recs
here here
"I like whatever metric makes a Blazer look better." jonestr
Reporter: Four assists tonight too, Travis. You're starting to shed that idea that you're just a shooter. You're starting to pass the ball more too...
Travis: (Deadpans) Aw, I just got tired..
ruffin from ruffin leaves ruffin
you gotta have somethin…
So is loving Nic for his schnuggy tushie "completely irrational and irrelevant?"
If you Love to Love players like Nic Batum for completely irrational and irrelevent reasons, you have the right to do so.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Rec'd
I mean I really rec’d it too …well said Sophia…
BE got it all for sure…
There’s probably even a couple more categories, but I’ll save them for a future junk drawer…
""Look. I can touch the rim on my tippy toes.. " – Greg Oden
I'll do one
…generate imaginary love affairs with other poster’s, come to Bedge [just don’t be too creepy about it]!
"The match in Los Angeles is a good opportunity to begin to demonstrate that we want to make war." Rudy Fernández (translated)
Posters dang it! Not poster's...
"The match in Los Angeles is a good opportunity to begin to demonstrate that we want to make war." Rudy Fernández (translated)
so un called for
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
Roses are red
violets in bloom
Sophia’s in love
with Nicholas Batum
-Bow4Meow
Sorry. Goes to corner and cries.
"The match in Los Angeles is a good opportunity to begin to demonstrate that we want to make war." Rudy Fernández (translated)
i dont care what u say about me but attacking other posters w/ snark and snide remarks
is extremely disrespectful. Especially in a forum about civility and respect on this blog.
Dont apologize to me, but to LetsBlaze.
Sophia
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
Roses are red
violets in bloom
Sophia’s in love
with Nicholas Batum
-Bow4Meow
Huh? Not attacking anyone.
I wasn’t attacking letsblaze at all. He said there were more categories to add but woud save it for JD. Something came to mind while I’m waiting for an appointment and I got snarky. I can think of a certain islander that posts frequenty…oh never mind. No offense meant.
"The match in Los Angeles is a good opportunity to begin to demonstrate that we want to make war." Rudy Fernández (translated)
well then my bad i apologize i thought something else entirely
was going on.. now i just really self absorbed..
oh well LMAO
anyway, for real my bad.
sophia
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
Roses are red
violets in bloom
Sophia’s in love
with Nicholas Batum
-Bow4Meow
lol
just really self absorbed
I am no longer able to participate in this discussion due to a moderators request...
by TrentEdwardsHoF2018
when he said that
I thought he was referencing what was going on in the junk drawer a few weeks ago.
draft rodrigue beaubois
by Cablinasian on May 15, 2009 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions
he was just taking my idea and running with it
pretty funny too….BTW I still have an autographed program with your name on it..
""Look. I can touch the rim on my tippy toes.. " – Greg Oden
you sure it's me?
I don’t remember anything about a program… however, if you do have a program with my name on it, that’s awesome.
zach.whitman at gmail.com
draft rodrigue beaubois
oh good
I was thinking I was a total jerk and asked for something and forgot about it.
draft rodrigue beaubois
I KNOW
jesus h i need to email u
done :)
sophia
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
Roses are red
violets in bloom
Sophia’s in love
with Nicholas Batum
-Bow4Meow
LMAO
poke me again on fb.. RIGHT NOW
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
Roses are red
violets in bloom
Sophia’s in love
with Nicholas Batum
-Bow4Meow
i'm so going to FB to poke you
"Whatever...I heard Bayless uses a pillowcase as a wallet." --TiH
by prezofdeath on May 15, 2009 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions
#1
dave does a phenomenal job in this blogosphere,that said dave is not the problem in this site.believe it or not it’s fans like myself.see people like myself are not biased,but more tell it as we see it.most of the people in this site love this team too damn much.pdx is a beaytiful town,the people are nice and the region is very beautiful.but the fans in pdx are too dam rabid about the blazers.the blazers are the alabama crimson tide of the w.coast.the fans are loyal to the franchise and very sensitive toward any critism of it’s players.when i guy myself critcizes a martell or g.oden,you people are ready to kill me.i sometimes laugh about it,other times my nephew and i just shake our heads.my nephew says it’s just a comment not a death threat.and that coming from a wwe*tna8roh wrestling fan ouch.my point is that you guys have to sometimes take the good with the bad.i love this team,but i also can be critical about this team too.i don’t like evey blazer player or fans.but i love the owner the city and the franchise.like i always say,i love what’s in front of the jersey not the back of it.some of you people love the front back and all the above.
by fatty on May 15, 2009 9:36 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Was the comparison to an SEC team's fanbase really neccessary?
Ugh. That hurts.
"The match in Los Angeles is a good opportunity to begin to demonstrate that we want to make war." Rudy Fernández (translated)
You love your nephew too much.
Seriously dude, you are too dam rabid about your nephew.
I should have been one cowboy.
haha
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
Roses are red
violets in bloom
Sophia’s in love
with Nicholas Batum
-Bow4Meow
Always one
/sarc
"The match in Los Angeles is a good opportunity to begin to demonstrate that we want to make war." Rudy Fernández (translated)
also
it’s very refreashing to bash on players who don’t produce like they should.you guys are small time compared to a city like cleveland.where their fans in every sport are dying for a title.where the media is brutally critical of it’s athletes.or vancouver b.c. where those fans are dying for a stanley cup.just take it easy sometimes,on people who’re on your side.but also can be objective about the team we all support.
I wish we had the Portland Buckaroos back
Portland’s only historical Dynasty.
Yep. I was fortunate growing up going to both, when Blazers sucked and the Bucks were filling the MC and kicking booty. Had the Timbers for a while too…we really could use another Major League sport around here and not Seattle’s teams. Portland is a really “provencial” town, despite the liberal culture that is espoused.
"The match in Los Angeles is a good opportunity to begin to demonstrate that we want to make war." Rudy Fernández (translated)
No
It’s not refreshing to bash on players who don’t produce as they should.
Objectivity is analysis. Bashing is bashing.
State what you want to state, but state it positively. No more whacking players “because it’s refreshing”. – Elgin
VENTURA: It's drowning. It gives you the complete sensation that you are drowning. It is no good, because you -- I'll put it to you this way, you give me a waterboard, Dick Cheney and one hour, and I'll have him confess to the Sharon Tate murders.
by 22baylor on May 15, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's a nice warm feeling
but it doesn’t last – Elgin
VENTURA: It's drowning. It gives you the complete sensation that you are drowning. It is no good, because you -- I'll put it to you this way, you give me a waterboard, Dick Cheney and one hour, and I'll have him confess to the Sharon Tate murders.
Dave,
Thank you for the effort at bringing a very balanced approach to your opinions. I do believe your tone in this and your other writing is what is the foundation of the civility and intelligence of this site.
What you’ve outlined here as your standard isn’t an easy thing to live up to, but then it wouldn’t be a worthy standard if it wasn’t. Thanks for that also.
"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."
I think the issue is with the medium, really
The internet requires almost zero accountability for what a person writes, even less than talk radio. I am sobered by some of the things I read on BE, and this is the absolute most civil website I’ve come across. Thanks for making it the best it can be.
That sounds a little like a back-handed compliment, but I mean well :)
I choose to read BEdge for a reason...
The internet is full of opinions and commentary and virtually every topic, and there are usually multiple viewpoints for each of those topics. This is compounded more with professional sports teams.
I choose to read BlazersEdge because of the quality of the writing from Dave, Ben, and all of the fans who share in the experience of being a Blazers fan. I choose to read BlazersEdge because the posts are provide insight and depth, and not just slamming a player or ref. Further, I take pride in being a part of this community and encourage others to read this blog, even if they aren’t PTB fans, to have a greater understanding of our franchise.
Where I seek criticism is to help me understand what is happening (or happened) during the game. So I guess the criticism I seek is teaching, which is the most constructive criticism you can provide. As far as your criticism, Dave, I have always thought you took a coach’s perspective to criticism; as you don’t call someone out without it leading to a discussion about improving on that aspect of their game. This applies to the team as well, if there is something to be learned from the experience you point it out, but if not, then you remain pretty neutral.
Basically, what I’m saying is keep up the good work!
If you let them make you, they'll make you into paper mache.
At a distance you're strong until the wind comes, then you'll crumble and blow away.
- Incubus
Dave-You are the man
I can’t say how much I enjoy your work. Thank you.
We all know what K*be did in Colorado to that girl. Dear Lord, please let whatever team that plays the LA Clankers beat them to oblivion. Amen.
Good job.
This I enjoyed.
I love the word “tenets”, what it is and what it means. We all should understand our building blocks. Why do we believe what we believe? Everything above that can be challenged and argued, hemmed and hawed. As you dig deeper, there is less that can be challenged. When you reach the foundation, the answer just IS, and that is who you are.
The cowards never started
The weak died along the way
Only the strong survived
They were the Trailblazers
Blazers fandom is like a religion (in a good way)
Yes we criticize but as Dave said the night we got knocked out, we are not Blazers fans because they win but because there is this draw the team (especially this team) hast to us. I know the more I tried to claim I didn’t care if they lost, the more I realized I was lying to myself.
Sure I criticize them but that’s not the point, WE ARE BLAZERMANIA AND WE WILL ALWAYS BE HERE!
Proud member of Duck nation!
Well said. I appreciate this website and feel that there is a good balance of analysis, criticism, and fandom.
As far as criticism goes, I’m so glad you said this:
Harping on a rookie for making mistakes is like harping on the sky for being blue. It’s a rare rookie that doesn’t. And just because we’ve seen one of those exceptional rooks in Brandon Roy doesn’t make that the measuring stick for every guy we draft
I’m so sick of people expecting everyone to have a Brandon Royesque season their rookie year. Not everyone can be that good.
Thanks Dave
As a fellow pastor and Blazer fan, I enjoy your level headed approach. I think you roll objective optimism and pessimism into your writing quite well. I enjoy the blog for a couple of reasons. The first I’ve mentioned. Secondly, the site rules about language and ad homininum attacks. This unquestionably elevates the conversation to something I can engage in. I’m not sure how you sustain your energy and keep the quality so high, but thanks and blessings.
by Interested on May 15, 2009 11:51 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Nice sax solo by Phil Woods
VENTURA: It's drowning. It gives you the complete sensation that you are drowning. It is no good, because you -- I'll put it to you this way, you give me a waterboard, Dick Cheney and one hour, and I'll have him confess to the Sharon Tate murders.
i don't even think i've ever listened to Rush
but all those talking heads are liars, so I feel pretty safe reccing this comment.
"Whatever...I heard Bayless uses a pillowcase as a wallet." --TiH
by prezofdeath on May 15, 2009 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Most people who impugn Rush
haven’t listened to him either, so join the crowd.
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
yeh i took a bit of an unfair potshot right there
but at least i gave full disclosure that i haven’t listened to him.
"Whatever...I heard Bayless uses a pillowcase as a wallet." --TiH
:) I'll give you credit for that
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
that's just what a pastor would say!!
sorry.. great write up.. I really appreciate that you share your truth with us
"Slum dunk? You just go to the rim, and crush.. crush the ball in the rim."
- Nic Batum
thanks
it’s nice to see how you think
I am no longer able to participate in this discussion due to a moderators request...
by TrentEdwardsHoF2018
I don't know much about the Blazers
But I am interested in how to improve my writing in general, whether it be for the Rockets or anything else.
Dave, this was fantastic. I’m copying it onto Microsoft Word and saving it as a reference just in case I get stuck in the future.
The Dream Shake
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
You're writing is good,
when I go to TDS, I check for your name first…
I am no longer able to participate in this discussion due to a moderators request...
by TrentEdwardsHoF2018
Dave is definitely the cool kid on the site.
What he says goes. Period.
Thanks for the article and the good job you do with this blog. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that this is the best sports blog out there…
Wild horses couldn’t pull me away from reading this post…Thanks.
GO
THE TEACHER ......come into my classroom "THE PAINT" for some tutelage.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The rancor reflected in that remark I won't dignify with comment. But I'll address your general attitude of hopeless negativism." – Everett "O Brother, where art Thou?"
Here's what I'm hearing you say:
Nate should be fired
Brandon’s defense sucks
Trade Outlaw
Houston beat us because of the refs
You are a homer who never criticizes the Blazers
Did I miss anything? The article was long, I just skimmed it.
no need, BEdgers need you
Everyone knows that every comedy team needs a straight man…you are the straight man Dave (and a good one at that), which gives the rest of us BEdgers free rein to criticize so that we get a well rounded opinion.
Don’t change Dave, the site works great as it is…
t
I have my P.h.D in unreliable hyperbole.
by Eat Politicians on May 15, 2009 4:04 PM PDT reply actions
oh wait
That’s a label…let’s try something else…umm. Something that doesn’t pigeonhole you into being labeled with a label yet attempts to illustrate my point in a short and concise fashion. A sound bite….oh wait, can’t do that.. let’s try again.
Hmmm. Well I’d love to stay and write a 15 page essay on the complexities of basketball critique and human communication, but, really, I just log onto this site to read from people that know more than me so that I can pretend to know stuff about basketball that I don’t have the time to think about myself because I have other things going on. So yeah, that’s why I like Dave and BEdge is because I can get that knowledged opinion and then go on to other things in my life that I’m actually good at and want to spend time doing. I’m glad you spend the time doing this…so I don’t have too (because I wouldn’t anyway).
So yeah. Keep doing whatever none critical whatever it is that your doing and I’ll continue to read because it’s smart and interesting. And then I can make my stupid, rushed, Rush Limbaugh comments because that’s all I really have time for anyway…
I have my P.h.D in unreliable hyperbole.
by Eat Politicians on May 15, 2009 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions
i'll save this for when i need to procrastinate from school work.
"There are a few teams you have to watch out for in the fourth quarter."
"Yeah, but Portland definitely is not one of them."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters at the end of the third quarter with the Hornets leading 74-59. Portland later ends up winning 97-89.
"They don't mind him shooting that shot at all. Rudy Fernandez is not that great of a 3pt shooter."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters right after a Rudy Fernandez missed 3pter. Rudy Fernandez finished the game with three 3pters on six attempts.
All great stuff
but could you have made your point in less than 3500+ words?
I only have one problem with this post Dave
I can’t buzz it up! Great stuff. I’m glad I took the time to read it.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I think I'm going to
criticize Dave. Someone has to criticize the criticizer, right?
Dave, this post is sexist. Unless you know something I don’t, Jorga does not have a greybeard.
"Whatever...I heard Bayless uses a pillowcase as a wallet." --TiH
First off, I never knew Dave was a pastor! That's so cool!
Second, Dave, I think that you and Ben are completely awesome at running this site. You each have your own way of putting a spin on an entry, and your list of why you do what you do above is how I wish more people would write.
In the post that brought this up, I wrote the following in response to those criticisms, and that holds true here as well:
I just think it’s great that there’s a place I can go….
Where everybody knows my name…. And they’re always glad I came.
Seriously tho, this isn’t a hardcore serious blog site. I like the way that Dave and Ben write, the fact that they let their fandom show. I like how we can have silly polls like whether Shav should stay or stay. I like how we can debate why he should stay, or not. And also to give us a place to vent about things that bother us all, without a mostly national audience griping about how we whine when they have no vested interest in our concerns.
I use BE as a temporary sanctuary during the work day. I read posts from my BlackBerry. I’ve become good friends with people on this site. It’s a smörgåsbord of goodness rolled into one easy-to-type web address. I like the way it is, and I feel it only gets better with each passing day.
We’re all entitled to our opinions, however. And don’t take this as an attack, but my opinion of your opinion is that you’re taking things a little too seriously. Relax, and just enjoy the place where Blazer fans meet the most outside of the RG!
Blazers’ Edge….where We happen
Keep up the good work Dave. We love you….in the platonic way, of course :)
Blazers win!
Blazers, this site, pretty much one & the same for me
I enjoy both for the distraction they provide. Sometimes to improve, the weak parts must be the focus but the constructive nature of sports is what I find the most entertaining. Thanks Dave for charting the course of this forum.
“And simple truth miscalled simplicity, And captive good attending captain ill.”
-Shakespeare
Very well-written article
I really appreciate the depth of feeling you put into this post. I think it’s the best one I’ve read to date (and I’ve been here a while).
I used to get irritated that you didn’t “take a stand” on key points. I wanted you to be more emphatic about things and not so wishy-washy, as I thought you were being. And in some cases I might have been right. But as I get older I realize how it’s not as important to have a black-and-white stance on every single issue and more important to have an overall philosophy that relies on careful judgments based on reasoned and proven observations. That philosophy doesn’t have much room for snap judgments.
I haven’t been on BE much this year. My business is growing and demanding a lot of my time (worked until 11 tonight) and just can’t spend the time on here that I used to. But it is so nice to be able to log on to BE late at night after a long day and find a plethora of well-written, well reasoned articles (even when I disagree with the conclusions) from both you and Ben. I appreciate it immensely.
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
Take a stand on fewer things
and make sure they’re both important and correct. That’s basically how I play.
Most things, even in basketball, don’t have a single, definable right stance. It’s about probabilities and permutations.
—Dave
I've come to expect
truly high quality writing and analysis of Blazer hoops at BEdge. It’s probaby wrong that I should EXPECT it….but Dave and Ben have done such a wonderful job that I do.
Then I read an article on criticism….and I am completely blwon away again. What a tremendous piece!
I don’t have time to do a ton of other things besides this, my family, my day job, and some good friendships.
You write that most of us don’t know you beyond your writing in the past 2-3 years. All I can say is if you put the same level of quality into the other things in your life, your family, your ministry and your friends are well served.
Thanks Dave, for everything you write here.
So very well said...
As usual, you put together a fantastic post that people can use to judge your blogs by, or simply use to improve their own day-to-day lives. Less complaining and more positive focus… sounds like a recipe for life.

by 























