Can we play Rudy at PG?
by nima on May 11, 2009 7:35 AM PDT
49 comments
We all talked about this before he came over and we saw stints of this during the playoffs. Rudy has an amazing abiliity to see a play before it happened (like that nic cage movie that i'm intentionally forgetting the name of).
Remember that throw ahead to Oden before he thunderously...missed the dunk? OK lets try this again. Remember the defy the laws of physics behind the back wrap-around pass in the preseason? How about the beautiful between the defender's legs pass to LMA? Inbounds ally-oop to Roy? I could go on and on but the fact is Rudy has muchos huevos and puts the ball on the mark. Once he puts weight on he will drive a little more and he has shown on the allyoops to improvise well once under the basket. He can obviously pop the 3. I think on offense, its safe to say he can more or less do the job-especially in the playoffs.
The problem is the defense. He clearly would have trouble with smaller PGs. That could prove too much of a negative and offset his offensive contribution. Would that be too much to give up? We Batum who has proven to be a versatile defender and could play on offense, Rudy/Roy as combo guards with Batum Aldridge & Odenzilla to round it out, and Batum on the PG, Rudy on the 2 and Roy on the 3 on defense,
Worth a shot?
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i have thought about this too
rudy is by far our best passer and has the best court vision
bayless leaves over my dead body
by thomasikehara on May 11, 2009 7:41 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hey, Sergio hasn't been traded yet!
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
by DaniBCN on May 11, 2009 8:02 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, we can and WILL play Rudy at PG...
Rudy is a capable ball-handler for starting an offense, he is a tricky passer and does have great court vision and awareness of his team mates. We also witnessed Nate MacMillan realize this in game 6 of the playoffs when Rudy played a lot more time on the court in Blakes spot. i definitely say we will see him a little bit at PG to help shore up that spot. Especially if/when Blake is traded…
by Portland Dynasty on May 12, 2009 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting.
I remember an interview last Summer when Webster was absolutely stunned when he found out Rudy was a shooting guard. He said something to the effect that he thought Rudy was a point guard and that he (Martel) was going to be getting the backup shooting guard minutes this year.
That really struck me as odd because it either means that Webster knew less about Rudy than the average fan, or that the coaching staff was already talking about using Rudy at PG. If Webster hadn’t been injured maybe that’s the way things would have worked out.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on May 11, 2009 7:45 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
His passing is a joy to watch
I’m not sure it would work, but I would love to see them give it a shot. How about that pass along the baseline to Oden they started doing towards the end of the year, he would kind of sling it sidearm to him. I hope the Blazers all take notes on his movement and creativity.
by twggyy on May 11, 2009 7:58 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Nate would say:
He can’t defend and makes too many turnovers, let’s play him 4 minutes in the first half and then bench him.
It could be a big upgrade for certain matchups, like Houston. If your starting PG can’t guard theirs, look for a way to make the most of it. Rudy can torch Brooks any day, step back three after step back three. But hey, that’d be messing with the rotation!
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
by DaniBCN on May 11, 2009 8:13 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Defense?
I seriously question whether or not Rudy has the lateral quickness to guard a majority of the PGs in the NBA. He might be OK in spot minutes in certain match-ups, but I think you would be setting him up to fail.
I think a much more likely role is Rudy sharing some of the distribution duties with Bayless in the second unit. Rudy and Bayless seem like a very complimentary pair.
by upper left corner on May 11, 2009 8:17 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
well really...
We should be playing a zone majority of the time (with Roy’s lack of quickness too) which Rudy would be absolutely fine in. We could just load Batum on the strong side (or best matchup). The only PG’s Rudy couldn’t handle are Paul, Williams, Rondo, Harris, and a few select others.
by darkhelmit54 on May 11, 2009 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Roy is plenty quick
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
by HurraKane212 on May 11, 2009 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Roy is MUCH better defending 3's and thus defending quick players is not his specialty.
Rudy and Roy work, but not as a PG and a SG. They can play the wings and have this year at an astonishingly successful level.
by as11osu on May 11, 2009 11:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What if Batum is in the game with them guarding the PG?
He’s shown he can handle that. The length and size of that lineup would be awesome.
by erastus25 on May 12, 2009 5:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do the Blazers have any players with more lateral quickness than Rudy?
Aside from Bayless? Rudy is quicker than Blake or Sergio.
by trk on May 13, 2009 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way
Rudy is clearly not even comfortable bringing the ball up the court. The few times he did it the opposing point guard pressed him easily. His turnover rate would be really, really bad.
He moves so much better without the ball in his hands. This would be playing up his weaknesses and downplaying his strengths. Being able to make a good pass is not the same thing as being able to manage the ball.
If they want him on the court at the same time as Roy, then Roy has to play the 1 or 3 himself. Rudy is about as pure a 2-guard as they come.
by matthewcc on May 11, 2009 8:22 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
agreed
his movement without the ball is what makes Rudy…uh…Rudy. take that away and i think he becomes quite mediocre. and not average-NBA-production-mediocre either.
"Hey, John Kerry - Why the long face?"
by dirka dirka on May 11, 2009 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope.
Rudy is a high risk, high reward passer. You can have maybe 5 of those a game, but if he was full-time PG, he’d have waaaaay too many turnovers. Rudy makes Sergio look conservative by comparison.
"We have a different style, a European style," he says adjusting his jacket for emphasis. "They know it's cool.''
by sergioFTW on May 11, 2009 8:31 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The problem ain't his defense on PGs
The problem is, he’s a pretty weak dribbler. That’s why he can’t take anyone off the dribble, why he doesn’t dribble the ball up court much, and why his success comes off the ball almost always.
I think he can BECOME a good dribbler, but it’s the one thing about his game that bummed me out— the dude is a crappy dribbler and has no moves WITH the ball! It’s the total opposite of most American guard stars, and is both awesome and lame. How does a guard who is as creative, sneaky, and sneakily creatively athletic like Rudy go through his career and not learn to dribble like a guard?
A point guard needs to be a great dribbler, it should go without saying.
I’d like his amazing passing to be a second weapon in the offense, not as the primary ballhandler first choice type deal. In theory, his shooting and amazing off-the-ball play COULD fit in well with Roy, and pre-season I hoped it would, but his ballhandling prevents him from being a PG, and then his lack of quicks against NBA point guards is the second thing preventing him.
I think he’ll be more athletic, in better shape, and less tired this next year and beyond, and will benefit from a real NBA training regimen. His ballhandling should also improve, because hopefully he noticed he can’t beat anyone off the dribble. The step back 3 is an awful shot, and I’d hate for him to rely on the dribble-through-legs-like-an-8th-grader-and-jump-backwards-bad-jumper shot for his career, since he can be a lot more.
Rudy and Roy as co-combo-PG/SGs would be pretty awesome, if Rudy can be the Blake part of the offense and dribble the ball up court and be counted on to do that. He’s worse than Blake at penetrating though, but I expect that to improve. Playing Rudy as the Blake would get him more minutes, and more minutes alongside Roy as well, which I like…
MAYBE once Oden is Oden, Oden and LMA will be enough inside to cover for Rudy’s lack of quicks, but I dunno. I hope so! It should be. Maybe just not next season.
Rudy can pass as well as anyone, but he doesn’t control a ball like a PG.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on May 11, 2009 9:41 AM PDT reply actions 3 recs
Good points
Let’s play hypothetical, here.
First of all, when I see Rudy playing behind Roy it brings back the Drexler/Petrovic 2-guard logjam of ’91
Eventually, Rudy will want more minutes then he can get in PDX, playing the backup 2
You don’t move Brandon to PG or SF for “anyone”
With this in mind, what if during the exit interview Nate/KP told Rudy that “the best way to get more PT is to go home and work on this PG skills” this offseason? Because if they want a long-term relationship between Rudy and the Blazer franchise, the only way it’s gonna happen is if Rudy can play a position other than 2 guard with enough acumen to impress Nate McMillian
by two4larue on May 11, 2009 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another comparison from Blazer history
Asking Rudy to play PG would be like asking Jim Paxson to play PG back in ’86 to make room for Clyde the Glide. (Except that back then, you could still handcheck…)
or
Asking Brandon Roy to play PG so Rudy could get more minutes would be like asking Clyde Drexler to play PG back in ’86 because Jim Paxson was the incumbent all-star SG
by two4larue on May 11, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice.
“the Blake”
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on May 11, 2009 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
this from mathewcc up above:
He moves so much better without the ball in his hands. This would be playing up his weaknesses and downplaying his strengths.
and this from Morti:
…dude is a crappy dribbler and has no moves WITH the ball!
nailed it.
He’s our Reggie Miller. He’s a two who should play the one minimally.
But I like to be here. Oh, I like it a lot! Said the Cat in the Hat. To the fish in the pot.
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on May 11, 2009 10:09 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
yah, thats very true. what about Roy at point with him at 2?
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
by nima on May 11, 2009 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
sounds great
roy is the next chauncy billups! and he even has the handles
by jontwin on May 12, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rudy's no ball-handler
p.s. lol @ the term “ball-handler”
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on May 11, 2009 10:36 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Rudy/Roy/Bayless as our future trio combo guards
Rudy is by far the best off ball player between the three, and the best three point shooter… he has some nifty passes but his lack of dribbling skills limit him from creating more opportunities than he actually does. His 6’6 frame combined with his high release makes him the best shooter out of the 3.
Roy is without a doubt the man you want the ball with at anytime in the game… he can handle his own on offense dribbling the ball, which makes him a good penetrator. He’s a good shooter from everywhere on the court, has great playmaking skills, but is not as good a passer as rudy.
Bayless is the wildcard… you dont know if he’s a 1 or a 2, but his frame suggests he’s the favorite at the point. He pretty much needs improvement in every facet of his game, but I see him becoming a great penetrator, which is where he could get his assists from.
Out of the 3, im most comfortable with roy playing the point, rudy playing the 2, and bayless as the immediate backup at the 1, since both roy and rudy could slide back to the SG position.
I dont think rudy NEEDS to play at PG to impact the game with his passing skills… he just needs to be in the game at the same time as Roy, Aldridge and Oden, leaving him as the 3rd option on offense, and watch him create some easy opportunities.
by jbm01 on May 11, 2009 11:42 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Rudy at the 2 Roy at the 3...
not that hard
by as11osu on May 11, 2009 1:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Against bigger 3's
Roy is outmatched on defense.
Offseason:
Trade For Mike Conley Jr
Sign Antonio McDyess & Othello Hunter
Draft Kevin Seraphin/Edwin Jackson(Eurostash)
by TheGreatDane17 on May 11, 2009 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Roy has said he doesn't want to play the 3 full time.
And considering that he’s always kind of banged up, why would we want to wear him out by having him play bigger, more physical guys?
by howlingfantods on May 11, 2009 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don't have to play him there all the time....
but in the playoffs… thats where he’s best, and where he can help us win the most. I’m sure he as he matures winning will me more important than “wearing out”.
by as11osu on May 11, 2009 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't like it.
You can’t spend 82 games running your offense one way and then switch it up when it counts most.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on May 11, 2009 11:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How does defending the 3 as opposed to the 2 wear him out anymore?
If anything he’s not chasing around the more athletic players in the league. I’m all for continuity, but that continuity should start with the lineup that is better. Rudy at the 2 and Roy at the 3 worked wonders for us all year long. Why mess with something that worked so consistently and at a very high level?
by as11osu on May 11, 2009 11:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with some of
what your saying but the “beat up” thing holds true. When a sf sees Roy who is likely 35 lbs lighter and 3-4 inches shorter than him trying to d him up they think post up. Roy’s body is banged a lot already on the offensive end, we don’t need to add post up defense to his resume. He has openly said he does not want to play the 3. I don’t see why you do this when you have Batum and Webster already fighting for minutes. Lets see what KP does and then have this conversation. I am still hoping he brings in a legit pg.
by The Natural ala Mode on May 12, 2009 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Besides, it's not just defending 3s rather than 2s
it’s defending guys like Kobe/LeBron/Wade/Melo for the entire game instead of Ariza/West/Moon, because Rudy sure as heck isn’t going to be D-ing up those guys.
by Royster on May 12, 2009 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This isn't anything new as I pointed out
They played the wings together 13 minutes a game last year, and they played it at an extremely high level (+9/48). In fact the defense wasn’t even an issue, as they gave up only 94 points per 48, while scoring 103. The offense you create while those two are on the court together trumps, by far, the potential defensive liability. There’s no reason you can’t cover D-Wade or Bryant with Batum for the majority of their minutes. For Rudy to get his 30 at SG, like he should be getting (because Roy’s value actually went up at SF), all you need is for 18 of B-Roy’s minutes to come at SF. Which means that if you so choose, Batum still has 30 minutes on the court to D up whichever superstar wing you want to name.
by as11osu on May 12, 2009 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, so you have a superstar top 10 player in the league
that was only available at the #6 spot because of knee injuries in college, who has had a number of injuries every season in the league including on that bad knee and missed a third of his first season, has had a fistful of “medical procedures” on his joints, who never complains about anything but did raise his voice when he was being forced to the 3 a lot to say that he didn’t think it’s good for him.
So. How is it a good idea to force him to do something he doesn’t want to do, something that he’s said is going to wear him out? Nice of you to dismiss those concerns but why should we listen to you over BRoy hisself?
by howlingfantods on May 12, 2009 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because it doesn't hurt as11osu a bit if Roy plays SF
So what if it shortens Roy’s career to play extended minutes at SF, isn’t the Blazer’s #1 goal to get Rudy more minutes at all costs?
If Webster had been healthy all year, you wouldn’t have seen so much of the small lineup with Roy playing the 3. Instead of being a “great idea for the playoffs” what if it was the only remaining option to try because Batum was getting abused in the post by Artest and Outlaw was doing his predictable “deer in the headlights” routine?
Roy > Rudy, just like Drexler > Petrovic…they were (and are, and ever will be) SHOOTING guards
by two4larue on May 12, 2009 9:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Playing 3-4 more minutes at SF
is going to shorten Roy’s career. Sure… totally believable. I love when people just flat make things up to support damaged and unfounded old opinions. The team has been more successful with Roy at the 3 for 2 straight seasons. It makes sense for him to play those extra minutes there because our next best perimeter player can only defend 2’s. Rudy is easily better than anyone else we have on the perimeter, and getting him on the court for those extra minutes is a great thing for winning basketball games. Winning basketball games should be what we’re all about right? I’m sure Brandon can give us those few extra minutes at the 3 if it means winning basketball games. How is running around defending point guards, or more athletic 2’s any better for Roy’s health than going up against 3’s? Does anyone realize how few 3’s actually post up in this league? Whole thing is pretty funny to me.
by as11osu on May 13, 2009 2:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
again, why should I listen to your opinion over Roy's?
by howlingfantods on May 14, 2009 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a fair question I suppose
But then you also have to ask what importance we should attach to which opinion you choose to listen to…assuming, of course, that you’re not KP in disguise.
It’s conversation, not life or death. Debate is cool. Opinions can be shared. It’s all good.
—Dave
by Dave on May 15, 2009 3:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Debate is cool, and I'm not trying to forestall debate.
But AS’s argument seems to be that us fans are making stuff up, that it’s silly to think that Roy would find it harder to guard 3s than 2s. So my response is, Roy said it’s harder for him to guard 3s than 2s, so why shouldn’t we accept his own assessment?
by howlingfantods on May 15, 2009 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
rudy? the same guy that willingly throw balls into 6 bodies in a 6 by 6 foot area?
lol….no no no my dear friend. He’s great on the fly, but I can’t trust him.
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out burns out farms and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
by faith on May 11, 2009 7:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Reminder: You need ball handling skills to be a PG!!!
I voted no, and I explain why.
I know he has excellent court vision, I know he throw amazing passes once in a while, I know he has some qualities that make him good for PG position, but come on, we don’t want to have 6 TO per game because our PG can’t cross the half court line dribbling.
I love Rudy, but playing him PG will exposure one of his most vulnerable weakness.
I even see him playing SF rather than PG.
by Manu on May 12, 2009 3:33 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
What about playing Rudy as the backup point guard and playing Bayless at the backup two? Then they can switch defensive assignments—Bayless taking the opposing point, and Rudy taking their 2. Yeah, Bayless is a small 2, but combine his penetration with Rudy’s passing and movement, Outlaw or Webster to track, and the opponent’s got their hands full on defense.
Of course, this might just be folly. Fun to think about though.
by Heizer on May 12, 2009 1:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
any amount of time where he has to dribble and travel will make him exploitable.
he doesn’t have the handles.
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out burns out farms and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
by faith on May 12, 2009 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So have Bayless bring the ball up, pass to Rudy and then get into your offense. Okay, maybe this won’t work.
by Heizer on May 12, 2009 1:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
look at how far every team with chauncy billups at point gets!
brandon roy is almost the exact same player as chauncy, but he is stuck at the two. in the lineups with roy at the point and rudy at two the blazers are a much bigger and better team. maybe we should move roy to point guard for about 25 to 30 min a game..
by jontwin on May 12, 2009 4:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I actually like this idea.
brandon’s just scared it won’t pan out the way it should and he’ll take a black eye from it.
but yes!!! by all means. he handles the ball for 50% of the time anyway….. what kind of calls would a full speed brandon get when itty bitty aaron brooks trys to slow him down at the top of the key?….giggle
bleep blocking foul…… bleep blocking foul…..bleep hand check…… oposed to itty bitty blake and poor sergio who still gets no disrespect (I’m guessing the refs are all part portugalizezezez.)…… but yeah
play roy at the point!!!
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out burns out farms and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
by faith on May 13, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like the idea of playing Rudy at the point
His ball-handling is the biggest thing that he needs to improve before he becomes a full-time point, but I think he is already good enough to be successful playing the point for a few minutes per game.
I like the way that Rudy brings the ball up the court: he is always looking ahead and is capable of making an accurate full-court outlet pass if he sees a good opportunity to start a fast break. It is questionable whether he will be able to consistently bring the ball up the court though full-court pressure, but most teams don’t use a full-court press except in the last 5 minutes of the game anyway.
I would like to see Rudy handling the ball more in the half-court than he has this year. I don’t mean we should run isos for him or anything (since that obviously isn’t his strength), but even his mediocre ball-handling skills should be sufficient to run the pick-and-roll or to throw passes to teammates who are moving off the ball. Rudy’s passing and shooting combined with Oden’s size, hands, and explosive dunking ability could make the two of them become very effective pick-and-roll partners in the future.
by trk on May 13, 2009 1:04 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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