The Travis Outlaw Junk Drawer
by robrun2 on May 1, 2009 12:05 AM PDT
Email
PrintListen, I know there are a ton of you out there that feel the way I do, so I wish to try to help Blazers Edge by just making a designated post for all the Travis Outlaw hate that will be coming out during the next few days. Let's try to restrict it to one post, so we don't annoy those blind Travis backers. We know that Travis is the biggest weakpoint on this team, and both the franchise and Travis himself would be better apart.
All I'm saying with this is, let's reduce the Fan Post population, and just vent our Travis feelings here.
I agree with some of the people below that the title may have been a little mean, and I didn't want to come off like that. For that reason, I changed the title to be a bit more in line with the site and with what this post was trying to accomplish. I still want him gone though, for reasonable value, of course.
345 comments
|
17 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I say keep Outlaw
if things remain as they are. He may not be the complete player we awnt, but who knows if we could get anything better at this point. I’d rather address the PG position.
Yellow Mamba FTW!
by northwestj on May 1, 2009 12:12 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
You must be a fan of another team hoping that if we keep him
it’s better for you.
At least those are my first thoughts….
"Both Anthony Carter and Jameer Nelson were downright jubilant in the Magic locker room postgame. Carter said to no one in particular, "Brandon Roy, that man is unstoppable, it's like he's playing NBA Live" and Nelson was cracking on his teammates for not being able to guard Brandon. The kinds of jokes you can make when you win."
wrong
Sorry if my understanding of the team is different than yours, but I don’t think that you can conclude that I must be a fan of another team, or that I was to try to screw over the blazers by having them keep crappy players.
Travis is a bench player who almost won the sixth man of the year. You think he fooled everyone all year to get there? Stop putting such high expectations on him and you’ll realize he’s not that bad. When you rely on him for more than he’s worth, then he seems like a liability.
Just chill out a little bit and be a bit more open minded.
Yellow Mamba FTW!
by northwestj on May 1, 2009 2:37 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Well, we need him for more than he's worth
He’s a role player that I don;t think we need in order to progress forward. He did play better after the all star break, and I had to reluctantly admit that his defense was better, too.
Still, I’d rather have Frye in the game than Outlaw. Frye rebounds, is stronger, and can get play offense.
As quick as Nate pulls Sergio out of a game for a turnover, he was awful slow in removing Travis in the second quarter.
I think you're overrating Frye
Frye rebounds, is stronger, and can get play offense.
There’s a reason that Frye played his way out of the lineup and Outlaw got consistent minutes.
Having a scoring threat like Outlaw on the bench is very valuable. He’s not perfect, but he improved his 3pt percentage this season, and seems like he’s going to be just as good as anyone else we’ll find for a scoring punch off the bench.
Yellow Mamba FTW!
by northwestj on May 1, 2009 2:48 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
He'll start if he's here
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
www.freeoden.com Coming soon
by 123_G.O._RipCity on May 1, 2009 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions
he's right
outlaws hustle is severly lacking when he doesnt have the ball. Frye works his tail off on the boards… but whatever they will both be gone by next season
C*mcast sucks!
by Blazermaniac77 on May 1, 2009 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions
we already have a near 7 footer who shoots college 3s
his name is aldridge and he hits them. I love Frye, but he cannot create offense.
As far as the Outlaw hate thread coming off of a poor playoff exposé, we all know what Travis is capable of, the problem is inconsistency. Same with all decent bench players across the league.
Throughout the playoffs who was consistent for the Blazers? Pryz and Roy… that’s it. Travis naturally plays wing, Houston has two great wing defenders, he was doomed. Travis also creates offense as opposed to working within a scheme, this also played into Houston’s defense.
As the team is constructed with Webster coming back and probably taking the starting position, who do you have to score in the second unit? Rudy and ?
I don’t think Travis is long for the Blazers, but if he were consistently mediocre (and perhaps as charming as Frye) no one would call for his head. It’s the periodic moments of miraculous compared to his other cyclical disappearances that makes it so difficult to see him as a quality bench player.
I think he is charming
thats the reason I hate to want him gone. Don’t get me wrong you don’t just give travis away, but there is intrest in him because he has a name around the league and his contract is not garanteed.
look the reasons travis should be traded are well documented and if you don;t understand why you arn’t paying attention to anything but maybe the stats. I will cheer him when he comes to visit and he’ll still be one of my favorite players in the league not in a Blazer uni. but he if we expect him to play backup PF next year he will need to work on the boards which is something in his 6 years as a PTB he has never done.
do you honestly think the team looks good when he is on the floor? their defense(even though his man d is much better as of late), their rebounding, and their team basketball all look sloppy.
it just pains me because he’s gotten so much better every year he’s played
C*mcast sucks!
by Blazermaniac77 on May 2, 2009 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
How can you say you'd rather see Frye in the game???
Frye is a nice guy but no where NEAR as athletic as Outlaw. I cringed every time he was put into the game as Center. Outlaw could play the number 4 positon in the series against Houston. He had a hard matchup for the number 3 position. It was his first playoff series and he will be MUCH better next year. Get rid of Frye!!!
by Natsthecat on May 1, 2009 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
So true
As quick as Nate pulls Sergio out of a game for a turnover, he was awful slow in removing Travis in the second quarter.
Trout and Jack got way too much love from Nate.
I got 6 years of playoff blue balls going on, and I'm ready to release. GO BLAZERS. ~Mortimer
by Philthyanimal on May 1, 2009 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Theres no room
On this team for a player who forces shots and leaves people open all over the floor. I feel like when he gets the ball he goes into tunnel vision. We need a SF that can create and get to thew foul line. Not just pull up a busted 20 footer every time with people right in his grill.
by RIPCITYISBACKANDBEYOND on May 1, 2009 8:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Dude, that's not a fair description of either of those players
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
That's a personal attack
and a no no.
if you can’t add something of value to the conversation, please don’t add anything.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
i want to address something in this comment.
blazers fans are more loyal to their players than any other team but it gets to the point of absurdity sometimes. There are two situations where people yammer for trades and the anti-trade arguments are always the same.
If things are going poorly: We can’t get much for him anyway at this point
If things are going well: We can’t trade him now-he’s doing great for us and we need to keep him!
So I have a question for all you “stay the course” blazers fans: When do you say enough is enough and potentially trade a player?
for the record, I am ambivalent on the “trade outlaw” talk.
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
Easy - it's not our job to trade players.
As fans we are supposed to root for and cheer on our players. Sure, we can have favorites and on occasion there may be a player or two who we think is a bad fit or worse, a bad citizen and want to see him gone. But determining who is worth keeping and who should be traded is the job of Kevin Pritchard and Nate McMillan.
This is where I get the “But we are entitled to our opinions and what is a blog for but to voice our opinions.” statement. The problem with that is after awhile, some of us get tired of hearing what basically amounts to uninformed, unqualified opinion. There is not more than a small handful of folks here who know enough about the game to judge any of the players. With that in mind, why should we have to constantly listen to the same old refrains about why this player or that sucks or is not good enough, from people not worthy of washing their sweaty jock straps?
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on May 1, 2009 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions 9 recs
why should we have to constantly listen to the same old refrains about why this player or that sucks or is not good enough, from people not worthy of washing their sweaty jock straps?
I hear you… but that’s a big part of what a sports blog is. Do you think nobody should talk about how the roster could be improved? Why tune into a sports blog in the offseason, then?
What would you propose we talk about? Should there be posts every day over the summer celebrating the virtues of each player without pointing out how they could improve? Should people refrain from commenting on what trades they believe would help because they don’t live up to your standard of general management excellence?
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
by KP Corleone on May 1, 2009 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Valid points, KPC.
I agree that BEdgers of all BBIQ levels and views should be free to express their opinions, but I wish they would do so without being rude and disrespectful to the players. Here’s a list of the words used to describe one player, Travis, just within this one thread, keeping context in mind:
- biggest weakpoint
- consistently horrible
- single largest leaky hole
- a detriment to our team
- does not love the game
- And, of course, low bbiq.
I don’t mind comments like this one, from Odenrising:
Travis has not rebounded the ball well his entire career. He does not block out. He does not follow his shot for his own misses(see Roy) He does not stay in front of his man on D. Its not one game its a six year career.
It’s not a personal attack, just his opinion of Travis’ abilities and performances, even if the implication that Travis never blocks-out, follows his shot, or stays in front of his man on D is untrue.
Also, it’s pointless to say that the Blazers should dump Travis or any other player without suggesting who we could realistically get for him and why that player would be an upgrade, as if dumping Travis is addition by subtraction.
by MiledAnimal on May 1, 2009 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
Don't forget dunce, idiot, moron.......................
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
I don't disagree
The personal attacks are misguided and offbase.
I don’t view low BBIQ as a personal attack – that’s just pretty much true. BBIQ is not some illusory trumped up concept. Basketball is a complicated game and some guys are better at processing it mentally in real time than others.
Travis, while supremely talented, does not typically make good basketball decisions on either end of the court. Neither do Channing, Jerryd, etc. I’m not saying he isn’t an intelligent guy off the court – his insightful analysis of various team members’ swag suggests otherwise (seriously) – but on the court, there is no question he often has poor judgment.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
by KP Corleone on May 1, 2009 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is what I'm saying
Also, it’s pointless to say that the Blazers should dump Travis or any other player without suggesting who we could realistically get for him and why that player would be an upgrade, as if dumping Travis is addition by subtraction.
Ol’ Trav is a total scapegoat here. If the blazers are in the market for a SF/PF combo player to come off the bench. A player who can shoot threes and is willing to take big shots (and hit them. let’s give him credit, here) then I really doubt they’re going to do much better than number 25.
I’m not opposed to upgrading over Travis, but it’s like when all the deals were being talked about at the trading deadline. Lots of folks, myself included, were disappointed a deal didn’t go through. The reality is that we don’t really have a basis for disappointment because we don’t know what deals were on the table. Name the player you’d like to get in place of T.O. and then we can talk about it.
Yellow Mamba FTW!
There's a line to walk.
Brandon Roy takes a bad shot at the end of a game and all of a sudden it’s: he hates Rudy. So does Nate. Brandon’s selfish and won’t defer shots to anyone. Not even worth rebutting.
Maybe we might need to get another point guard. That doesn’t justify saying things such as “Blake should be in the D-League”, claiming he can’t shoot, shouldn’t be in the game because of 1 bad shot, etc. He’s a good NBA player who wanted to come back to a team that was rebuilding instead of signing on with a winner. He’d get plenty of job offers if he weren’t employed by the Blazers.
LaMarcus is soft even though his defense has vastly improved, he led the team in deflections this year, and has worked hard on his back-to-the-basket game.
A lot of times people don’t notice big improvements.
People have criticisms that are valid, but some fans’ analysis is kneejerk and just plain wrong and it’s almost like they get personal about the players in their attacks.
It’s cool to talk about moves but there are too many trolls bashing our team for us to be d__ks about it.
by Benjamanic on May 1, 2009 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Or Timg56 is a very centered individual and accepts the team for what it is
AS in the words of Donalds Rumsfeld, “you go to war with the army you have , not he army you wish you had.”
I root for all Blazers and feel a bit of dissapointment when anyone leaves the family, yet I move on and cherish those that takes their place in the new team. Whether Trout goes or stays does not change my fanhood.
As for my opinion of Trout, I love him but I also accept his flaws. He can get his shot off on anyone, But it is not always the best shot. He can be great on defense but he is often out of position. He can be a huge rebounder but he often doesn’t block out his man. He is unwordly athletic, yet he is slow on the learning curve. Finally he is a great awe shucks personality that makes him feel good to root for in a league of millionaires (I mean is Artest the personality you’d rather have). For now he is on my tema and I take him for all that is travis, both good and bad.
by NWfan on May 1, 2009 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Taking the analogy further: is it the role of the sports fan to cheer for his "army" come hell or high water, or to advocate fixing deficiencies in that "army"?
That’s the fundamental question. It’s the same division that we see again and again between happy fans (who salute the colors, no matter what) and grumpy fans (who call a spade a spade, even if that means bitterly admitting deficiencies).
Pontiff of the Pryz for Prez Posse...
There is nothing particularly wrong with advocating to fix things.
Part of the problem I have, other than what Miled points out above, is that most fans (i.e. the people advocating for fixes) are not really what one would consider as qualified to evaluate the quality of players.
To continue with the analogy, what we hear a lot of on these pages is similar to what you see on TV and hear on talk radio. A bunch of people, although intelligent, well educated and even informed on a wide range of topics, who argue for changes in military organization, strategy and tactics, who never served a day in their lives. This is not to argue that we should never have to listen to their opinions. But after awhile, hearing the same old refrains from people about how this player or that needs to go just gets tiring.
hakkaa päälle !
But you, sir, are a clanging gong and clashing cymbal.
I dare you to restrict yourself to positive comments. Say what you want about Outlaw by talking other players up if you need to. Let’s just see if you can do it. – Elgin
Brandon Roy: Strengths-remarkably efficient player who appears to effortlessly score and facilitate. Weakness-he’s just a figment of your imagination. - Canis Hoopus
All right, I was admittedly a jerk with that snide comment.
I’ll try to cut back on the harsh remarks, but it’ll probably be an exercise in futility.
AK's not a jerk.
He’s a fairly smart guy who is young and who needs to think about getting a job other than that of NBA assistent GM.
hakkaa päälle !
I guess we'll see you in November, then?
You might as well try to hold back the tide with your fingers as to suggest that sports fans not play “armchair coach” or “armchair GM” (and if you don’t like it, get another summer hobby.) This is the offseason, this is the internet. Most of us realize that nothing we speculate on re: the Blazers will matter to KP, Nate McMillian or the “powers that be” but…we will speculate.
I’ve said many times that I like Travis and the fearless way he will take big shots. But, this team has crossed a threshold this season and it will require BBIQ and team play from every player to reach the ultimate goal. Outlaw is a nice kid, but he’s had plenty of time to “get it” and it’s pretty clear to most observers that while he can shoot and jump and run like a gazelle, the intricacies of the game are beyond him.
No problem, he can continue his career with a non-contending team and make a heck of a lot more money than we will ever see in our lifetimes. But I want “more” for my team at the 3-4 positions than TO has to offer.
by two4larue on May 1, 2009 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
It'll be hard to get it
But I want "more" for my team at the 3-4 positions than TO has to offer.
There’s just not that many players in the league that can play both those position who come off the bench.
Yellow Mamba FTW!
This is kind of what I am referring to about quality of knowledge ...
… in evaluating players and the league.
How many PF’s can you name who are not starters that you would prefer over Travis? How many SF’s? My guess is it would be a very small list. One that would get smaller if you eliminate young, up and coming players that their current teams are high on.
Once you give us this list, show us how these guys will be both better players and a better fit for Portland than Travis. Sure, you can select a guy like Carl Landry and say he’s going to be a better rebounder and probably a better defender than Travis. But will Landry be able to score like Travis? Can he get his shot off against even half of the guys Outlaw can? Probably not.
There are things Travis brings that, as northwestj says, are hard to find elsewhere. Afterall, I believe I’ve read that Travis finished in the top ten in ppg among guys coming off the bench. That’s not someone’s picnic leavings. There is also the fact that Travis has manged to improve his game just about every season. There is every reason to believe that when next season rolls around, we will see new aspects to Outlaw’s game. Travis Outlaw is the sort of player whose makeup, outlook on life and the game of basketball, personality and talent – talent that is still not completely tapped or developed – which Portland fans should be embracing whole heartedly. Not clamoring to see him traded.
hakkaa päälle !
Yep there are a ton of BEdgers that said they want Trout gone, and they all posted FanPosts about it also...
Blazer's Edge Ambassador to The Dream Shake Blog
LMA Rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I <3 LMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LMA - Putting the POWER in POWER FORWARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The concussion must have jarred him into "Destroy All Opposition Terminator Mode!" - BlazersOrBust
Unrec
Travis has given his all for Portland for 6 years and has been part of the turnaround. Ultimately, I’m in agreement he’s not a player who can help us win a championship in a major role. Thus, I would have no difficulty supporting a trade involving him. However, Travis is not a Zach Randolph— not a player who needs to be gotten rid of for the sake of getting rid of.
If Travis has indeed played his last game in Portland, I thank him for his efforts and for the memories and wish him good luck.
by jksnake99 on May 1, 2009 12:19 AM PDT reply actions 25 recs
Absolutely
He’s a great and wonderful person. However, he’s not the fit for the team. The team won’t get out of the first round with Travis playing more than 20 minutes per game. I said it before, and I was sadly vindicated.
and yet, if Roy had found a wide open Travis instead of committing a charge in game 4
or if Joel Przybilla had called timeout rather than throwing the ball into the backcourt
or if Portland had secured a decent percentage of defensive rebounds in the 4th quarter of game 4
or if Steve Blake had taken care of the ball….
… we may well have had a game 7 on or home floor.
those are instances
Travis plays consistently horrible. There is not a single instance with Travis….sometimes a single possession can have a catalogue of “what the hell is he doing?” moments followed by the same thing the next possession on the opposite end of the floor.
"Both Anthony Carter and Jameer Nelson were downright jubilant in the Magic locker room postgame. Carter said to no one in particular, "Brandon Roy, that man is unstoppable, it's like he's playing NBA Live" and Nelson was cracking on his teammates for not being able to guard Brandon. The kinds of jokes you can make when you win."
don't sensationalize it
Travis doesn’t always play well, and he was bad in the playoffs, but saying he’s “consistently horrible” is too much.
Yellow Mamba FTW!
That's not ultra-accurate though
If Houston wins their last game of the season and we end up playing the Spurs in the playoffs, we would get out of the first round with Travis playing 20+ minutes a night.
If we played ANY other team aside from Houston and the Lakers, we’d make it out of the 1st round with Outlaw playing 20 plus minutes a night.
If your prediction was solely playing-Houston-in-the-1st-round based, then you win.
Outlaw played awful in the playoffs. Completely awful. Maybe we should trade high. A championship club can still have a wildcard off the bench guy whose main contribution is scoring, and that guy plays that role for 20+ minutes. If he doesn’t score in the playoffs year after year, yeah, he’s useless. But we’ve yet to see if that is the case with Outlaw.
He is an unguardable scorer when he is on. As long as we don’t rely on him for more than that (no decision making, defense, rebounding), he has a role on this team. We want him to TRY to do those other things, but on this team all we need from him is bench scoring. And all season long, he did that.
He just sucked in the playoffs. And I think it’s too soon to say that is a pattern.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on May 1, 2009 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
A championship club can still have a wildcard off the bench guy whose main contribution is scoring, and that guy plays that role for 20+ minutes. If he doesn’t score in the playoffs year after year, yeah, he’s useless.
This really is what this whole thread comes down to: Consistency and reliability. Travis’ streakiness causes problems with both of those concepts.
But you also popped over to another important point: This also depends on his role on the team.
He is an unguardable scorer when he is on. As long as we don’t rely on him for more than that (no decision making, defense, rebounding), he has a role on this team.
He just sucked in the playoffs. And I think it’s too soon to say that is a pattern.
Travis’ true saving grace is his ability to immediately heat up and take over a game. And in 6 games, that never happened. While that’s not statistically significant, it is a trend. Right now, that’s his role on the team, and he failed miserably. We can’t say that he’s not a playoff performer due to this performance. But we can now say he has been unsuccessful in the postseason, and the onus moves to him to show otherwise in the future.
Nate’s worked very hard this year to mask Travis’ weaknesses and help him succeed in his element. Despite that, I think part of the problem is his perceived role: I think many fans came into the playoffs expecting him to be a key energy guy, and scorer #3 behind LMA and Brandon. In reality, he came into the playoffs as a streaky role player who had a cold streak. And when Travis’s shooting was cold… perhaps he should have played less minutes. That’s not on Travis. He did what he could with the minutes given. But it feels like he’s being held responsible for the minutes he played (Translation: more than Rudy). He didn’t decide his minutes, he just did his best when he was in. In this series, that wasn’t good enough.
However, one thing to note: When LMA and Brandon struggled, they changed their game (Brandon made multiple adjustments to get good shots; LMA went inside then outside and back). When Travis struggles… he just keeps shooting the same shots, hoping they’ll start going in. He doesn’t have any alternative method to get himself started. That’s a very tough situation when he’s cold in the playoffs. It limits his usefulness.
I certainly wouldn’t mind Travis being back next year. But it’ll be time to scale back expectations to reality: He’s the Blazers’ version of The Microwave, Vinnie Johnson. When he heats up, he makes a huge difference. When he’s cold, he often brings little else to the party and should be subbed out.
Travis can still be very valuable to this team in the right role. And if he still does break through, great! But if not, we need to have a better understanding of what to expect from him.
To the same point
Travis doesn’t make a bonehead mistake in one of the games we lost during the regular season, we take first place in the division from the Nuggets and play the Hornets.
It’s a pattern, and you hit it on the mark with the trade high remark. He is at the top of his value and I think he could be a great contributor for someone else. Maybe we could lock up some draft picks for him or a bruiser backup PF.
No I would not trade him for draft picks unless it is top 5. Outlaw is still young like a draft pick, and there is no point in getting younger. BTW we have like 3 picks this summer.
And Oden, once again, is a rookie, so non-stop fast break basketball is like fast-forwarding a song while he's trying to learn the lyrics.
Zaruga had a good question
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on May 3, 2009 12:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Travis to a contender?
I’ve said this before, but can you imagine Outlaw playing for Sloan or Poppovich? Rick Adelman might give Travis a Von Wafer role, but most contenders (and that’s what we wnat the Blazers to be, contenders) are looking for more than a microwave who can’t play good enough team defense or rebound when it really matters
I would think a non-contending team with offensive deficiencies would be a much better “landing zone” for Travis. (Kind of like…Portland circa 2004-2008?) Somewhere where he can continue his goal of being in an all-star but not mess up my favorite team’s long term future in the process
That's odd considering the prominent roles
Of Daniel Gibson, Sasha Vujajic, Eddie House on championship contending teams.
Outlaw is a fine backup SF, but the team relies on him way too much for scoring because Batum is so raw on that end. Watching Thabo Sefolosha for 2 seasons, I wouldn’t exactly say it’s a given that Batum will turn into a legit offensive player. Therein lies your problem.
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on May 1, 2009 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Bulls rock right now. I'm completely behind that team.
GO BULLS!!!!!!
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
If we can use Outlaw to get a major upgrade at PG, do it.
People may blast me for this, but I’m starting to fall in love with Jamal Crawford at PG… Friends with Broy and can bring some much needed offense to the PG position.. I think Golden State would do something like a Outlaw/Sergio trade for Crawford.
by two buck chuck on May 1, 2009 12:24 AM PDT up reply actions
sorry, but that's an awful idea
Crawford is a shameless gunner, and an inefficient one at that. He wouldn’t improve our D and would just be another 1v1 player… but one who is nowhere near as good at it as Roy.
"Shameless gunner"
Because he’s been on inferior teams who have asked him to shoot more… He’d take on a different role as a Blazer for sure.
by two buck chuck on May 1, 2009 12:26 AM PDT up reply actions
we don't necessarily need improved defense from our PG. we need improved offense
oden and pryzzy down low make up for lack of defense from the guard position… Plus, Batum is our defensive Kobe/guard stopper. Crawford can take it to the rack against anyone, instead of being indecisive on the fast break like Blake was this series. Just look into it a little bit… I’m adding him to the PG wish list board along with four or five other guys… and I’d trade Outlaw for him, as much as I like Outlaw.
by two buck chuck on May 1, 2009 12:37 AM PDT up reply actions
There needs to be improved defense against point guards, too, for the pick-'n'-roll ...
has been getting Greg Oden — as well as Joel Przybilla, albeit to a lesser extent — into foul trouble all season.
That must stop, pronto!
Unquestionably, the man for that task is none other than Kirk Hinrich. Around the trade deadline, there were only a few of us in the minority who praised Hinrich for his unique skill set.
Now, though, the tides have turned and more people are seeing the light.
Indeed, “Captain” Kirk Hinrich is the answer!
Realistically speaking,
Any one of the PG’s I’ve heard mentioned would be an improvement on defense. I like Hinrich too. Crawford has more of an offensive skill set and is more athletic, Hinrich is probably better on defense. I’d trade Outlaw for Hinrich though.
by two buck chuck on May 1, 2009 12:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Yea
Blake is better at D than Sergio or Bayless at this point an upgrade would make a big difference
Hinrich is a good move
Hinrich would be the best fit for the Blazers. The Bulls would probably do an even trade: Hinrich for Outlaw. Not only can he defend, but he can assist with the best of ‘em. He’s what we need to keep the offense moving, and I’d like to see a Blazer among the league leaders in steals… He can do it, and with Hinrich and Batum, our defense would get even better. Bring Bayless in off the bench with Rudy for speed and scoring… Next year can look good.
by Jackalope 66 on May 1, 2009 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Golden State might just let Crawford opt out.
If we want him we can have him.
From what I’ve seen Jamal Crawford is almost a PG. More so than Bayless and about on the same level as Roy when it comes to playing that position. He is a gunner, but he also likes to pass and isn’t exactly selfish. His assist ratio is almost the same as Roy and higher than Rudy.
He is a great teammate and would be a MUCH better sixth man than either Outlaw or Rudy. That might change depending on how Rudy develops next year, but right now Crawford can do everything Rudy can and more, with the exception of moving without the ball. Depending on how much he wants to get paid he might be worth a look. I don’t like him as our starting PG of course, but if he opts out he would be a steal at around 6 million a year. If he was Spanish people would think he was the greatest player in the world. Somehow he went from being vastly overrated to slightly underrated. He reminds me of a taller Jason Terry.
Sign Crawford, trade Outlaw. Roy stays happy and our bench gets much better.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on May 1, 2009 1:41 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm in complete agreement... He's fallen out of favor in Golden State..
Maybe we could get him for cheap… Crawford would be very good in our system. Scary good.
by two buck chuck on May 1, 2009 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Jamal Crawford is a taller, more inefficient Ben Gordon
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on May 1, 2009 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, you've got a point.
If Antoine Walker can win a title as a role player, then Travis Outlaw could also potentially do it.
Unlike Zach Randolph, Outlaw doesn’t play a big enough role to hurt the team too much on the court.
Outlaw, however, is still a hindrance to the team — even though it’s not to the extent of Randolph — and should thereby be dealt elsewhere.
Thats not what I see.
He is the single largest leaky hole in the hose and he gets lots of time to spill lots of productivity, energy and effort
"Both Anthony Carter and Jameer Nelson were downright jubilant in the Magic locker room postgame. Carter said to no one in particular, "Brandon Roy, that man is unstoppable, it's like he's playing NBA Live" and Nelson was cracking on his teammates for not being able to guard Brandon. The kinds of jokes you can make when you win."
In terms of leaks...
I think Blake and Sergio are much worse. Aldridge and Roy are only solid in spurts and Rudy has a long ways to go. This team was not built for defense. That might change if Oden can stop fouling every two minutes.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on May 1, 2009 3:11 AM PDT up reply actions
My sentiments exactly
Same as mid season. If there’s someone out there that can push us to the next level, and Trav is part of the deal, then yes. But there’s no need to dump him for nothing like some people have been intimating.
by zaruga on May 1, 2009 1:53 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Agreed
Travis’s problems are well documented. There seems to be a pattern – when the wheels start to fall off, and there’s the slightest bit of panic in the Blazers offense, Travis is ALWAYS there to take a horrible, off balance, out of rhythm jumpshot from a step inside the three-point line.
If Travis can be moved to bring in a major piece. Great.
But to suggest that one of the best bench players in the league should be “gotten rid of” as if he’s an overall negative to this team is preposterous.
Love him or not, the guy was a major part of the team this year, and the Blazers struggle to score points often when he’s not hitting. That wouldn’t change if he’s gone. You have to replace his production somehow, and if you think Rudy is creating the same shots off the dribble as Trout, you’re kidding yourself.
Trout has his problems, certainly, but he’s also an extremely talented offensive player who is now a deadeye three-point shooter when he’s open and is developing a little bit of a game attacking the rim. Sometimes his periodic mindfarts get in the way of recognition of the progress he’s made.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
Why unrec
If all teh 20 billion “i hate outlaw posts” land here, I’m a happy camper. I applaud the effort.
Outlaw has his clear weaknesses, but he also has his strengths. As an energy bench player, he’s okay.
That said, if we could get a good trade for him, i’d do it. I like Webster and Batum. Webster is a consistent player, can play decent defense and his steady. He’s also a player that would LOVE to attack the basket. (something I grumble about with Travis because he COULD attack and dominate, but doesn’t).
Frye will be one of the first players though. he needs minutes to be productive, and has become lost on the portland bench. I want him to leave so he can PLAY!
Sergio is also on my list. Nate’s pulling of Sergio speaks volumes. Sucks, but I’d love sergio to play on a team as well.
So, you need trade bait and you have Rudy or Outlaw. I keep Rudy. I like his experience and savvy. Upgrade teh point position and get a back-up PF that’s decent out of it. Some experience would be good too. Blake may also need to go and then Bayless can get his time, unless the coaching team doesn’t believe Bayless can take it to the next level.
I’d love an upgrade and point guard. I love blake, but we really do need an upgrade for next season.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
...
agree 100%
Travis is a bigger part of the team than what it seems sometimes, chemistry can be a big part of a team and everyone gets along with Travis. BUTTT I really felt the playoffs were a true test to see what Travis’ future would be. It took him years to develop into the player he is now but it could take years to develop him in the playoffs as well and that just might not work any longer. We need consistency and now that are competing it’s time to look into other players who already show promise… but lets not go the bad road and get players who are good basketball players but horrible personalities and have anger problems that could ruin the chemistry.
I have no problem with a trade with Outlaw now, I’ve always been a fan of him but he has been tested and he was an absolute no show in the playoffs… but so was pretty much everyone on our bench.
-brandonmitchell.org
by brandonmitchell on May 1, 2009 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions
...
To sum up what I said, Travis is a regular season guy… not a playoff guy.
-brandonmitchell.org
by brandonmitchell on May 1, 2009 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Agree
People need to accept that Travis is streaky, and yes, he sometimes makes bad decisions, just like Brandon or LaMarcus.
Not everybody can be a star, and hey, for the 8th-9th player from the bench that he’d be here…
He can be the best 9th pleayer in the league by far (Rudy, Oden, Martell will surpass him in the rotation soon)
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
That would make him 6th
Outlaw’s currently third.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
I honestly think this post-season was biggest chance to punch his long term ticket
for a long term contract with Portland. And he fell short. Woefully short.
Through the 6 games, he shot a horrible 31.8% from the field (21-66), 25% from 3 point range, and only made half of his 8 free throw attempts.
His defensive assignment, Shane Battier, isn’t well known for his offensive prowess, but still managed to shoot 50% from the field and 39% from deep.
He was widely seen as a huge X-factor and was relied upon to be that 3rd scoring threat Portland so desperately needed. And he was completely ineffective.
As much as I love the guy, I think his time with Portland has run its course.
"Respect everyone, fear no one." -TP
by Arby on May 1, 2009 12:24 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
So all it takes is one playoff series to pass judgement?
This was the first time this team expereinced playoff basketball. 6 games is a bit premature to conclude that any player, Travis included, is inadequate.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on May 1, 2009 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
He had a worse season than last year
Hype his season all you want, but except for his 2pfg%, and turnovers, he got worse in everything. The scoring I can understand, since we had Rudy at his side, but his rebounding, assists, steals, blocks, and 3pt% all dropped.
YES, HIS 3PT% WAS WORSE THAN LAST YEAR.
This is what Portland can get out of Outlaw, and it is not enough to make up for the lack of defense.
He shot more 3s this year
last year, he ONLY shot them when he had the perfect shot. His 3 is much better this year regardless of that %.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
i would say he will stay with the blazers
however i think his minutes and role may be reduced if martell comes back healthy and nicolas continues his improvement. if we get a solid backup 4 travis’s minutes might be the ones getting the squeeze
Webster
I might be wrong, and I might be crazy.
but I don’t believe in Webster, thats said, I don’t believe in high-schoolers.
Our 2R are basketball geniuses-Roy and Rudy
what do you call people who go to high school, then?
one-and-done at college doesn’t seem to be that great for the league either
Yellow Mamba FTW!
High schoolers represent some of the best players in the league
Lebron, K*be, GARNETt, Tracy McGrady, Jermaine Oneil.
"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein
by Garden of ODEN on May 2, 2009 7:58 PM PDT up reply actions
AK.
you like back to the future and the sandlot and freaks and geeks and the wonder years. takes me back to the good old days. classics. kudos.
"I don't know Twitter" - Rudy Fernandez
by RoodiePhirnandizz on May 1, 2009 12:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Sandlot
is all kinds of awesome. Except the barf scene. I get queezy during that one.
"Respect everyone, fear no one." -TP
"I don't know Twitter" - Rudy Fernandez
by RoodiePhirnandizz on May 1, 2009 1:18 AM PDT up reply actions
also Closing Time brings back great memories.
i used to request that song at the skating rink all the time. lol
"I don't know Twitter" - Rudy Fernandez
by RoodiePhirnandizz on May 1, 2009 12:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Nate's words to Travis as he leaves for the offseason:
WORK ON DEFENSE AND REBOUNDING. see you next year
Travis is good
at one thing shooting the ball. Unfortunately to get him on the court you have to play him at PF. That my friends is the problem he simply cannot defend or rebound like a PF. He doesn’t have it in him. Rudy had 8 rebounds in this game Travis had 2?..3? Rudy is like 6’5" and 175.Travis is like 6’9" and 220. How can you account for this?
You can't use 1 game as a referendum on Outlaw.
At least, not for rebounds. A few lucky (or unlucky) bounces can mean the difference between 4 and 8 rebounds.
"Respect everyone, fear no one." -TP
Travis
has not rebounded the ball well his entire career. He does not block out. He does not follow his shot for his own misses(see Roy) He does not stay in front of his man on D. Its not one game its a six year career.
+1
and for TIH, I don’t “hate” TO, I’m simply realistic about what he does and doesn’t do. Unfortunately the doesn’ts far outweigh the dos.
I can’t wait to get Martell back and keep grooming Nic. Both of them have something coming much closer to well-rounded games.
put a body on 'em
I would like to consolidate some talent
Combine TO and other lesser-appreciated players into one better player, hopefully. I think there is a market for a TO & Rudy / Frye trade for instance. Salaries for this past season and next season:
TO: $4.0M, 4.0M
Frye: $3.2M, 4.3M
Rodriguez: $1.0M, 1.9M
next year total salary: $10.2M
To answer your money question, there are some players that I think would be an upgrade, starting with a couple that are fresh in my mind:
Battier: $6.4M, 6.9M
Artest: $8.5M, FA (don’t think I want him though)
Caron Butler: $9.0M, $9.8M
James Posey: $5.5M, 6.0M
Hinrich: $10M, 9.5M (descending salary) – not sure I’m sold on him as answer though
Marvin Williams: $5.6M, 7.3M qual. offer
Devin Harris is a FA this year ($7.8M this past season)
I think backup PF (inside rebounder / put-back guy mostly which isn’t Frye so far) or starting PG (A. Miller, Felton?) are the main positions of need since I believe we will be pretty-well covered at SF even without Travis.
put a body on 'em
Devin Harris isn't a free-agent this off-season.
http://www.storytellerscontracts.info/resources/08-09salaries.htm
Also, a sign-and-trade involving Raef LaFrentz is more practical than a sign-and-trade of Channing Frye — which has to do with base-year compensation and qualifying offer type stuff — thus, my advice is for everyone to remember the former Arizona Wildcat for his laid back style and wish him well in his future endeavors.
Lastly, anyone who considers Andre Miller or Raymond Felton a better option than Kirk Hinrich at point guard isn’t recognizing the importance of three-point shooitng from that position.
In any event, Felton is a restricted free-agent and Miller is an unrestricted free-agent — with the latter one being an aging player, while both would fit better in a dribble-drive or flex motion offense than a high/low zone offense like the Trail Blazers run — so I don’t get why anyone thinks that they’re realistic options.
My mistake - I was looking at Hoops Hype
which apparently hadn’t been updated. I was just looking at Storyteller when I came back and saw your post.
put a body on 'em
That's strange
I just had this feeling that someone was looking at me, but I’m the only one in my office.
Now I know……
just hypotheticals on the PGs
I’m not sold on MIller as the answer for the age reason. Hinrich might be OK. Otherwise I’m still looking for something that is a definite upgrade but also able to be attained (i.e. unlikely NO trades CP3 to us despite their apparent $$ issues).
put a body on 'em
My problem with this
Is that fans act like trades in the NBA are like going to the supermarket and in reality it is like asking someone to dance at a bar. Not everyone is available or interested.
understood, but I saw this as hypotheticals, not actual trades
You asked how much I would pay his replacement. Personally, I don’t think we need a one-to-one replacement for Travis. We have Martell and Nic who I believe can cover the three reasonably well.
put a body on 'em
Shoot, DeJuan Blair is a guy we've been talking about for awhile on here.
The dude can probably be had during the 2009 NBA Draft, with conditioning being the only concerns surrounding him — since he could pull a Michael Sweetney or Robert “Tractor” Traylor and screw up his chances — still, his offensive reboudning prowess and efficiency on putbacks is perfect for the Portland Trail Blazers.
I’m kind of scared of his abilities as a defensive player — although his 7’3" wingspan calms my nerves, particularly as a shot blocker or when providing weakside help — but a traditionalist like me would feel more secure with a solid man-to-man interior defender at that spot.
At any rate, though, Blair is substantially better than Outlaw on the whole—no matter how much some hardcore, steadfast homers cream their jeans over “Trout” and whatnot.
great
another 19 year old to bring along like Nic… I will be paralyzed in a nursing home before this team’s window finally opens… sweet!
The team's window will open regardless of a back up PF
If the team’s chances were hinged to a back up PF, they wouldn’t have made the playoffs this year, because Channing didn’t exactly light up the league.
Blair would be perfect for the role he would be plugged into – a rebounding, garbage man off the bench would could play alongside Joel, Greg, or even Lamarcus (he would mask LMA’s timidity on the glass).
I hear you that the Blazers don’t need any more young players, but back up PF is one spot where you could pencil a rookie in without regressing in terms of overall development.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
Wrong
The answer is Tyler Hansbrough. A whole bunch of short Rockets just beat up the Blazers. Every fan from every other team would hate Hansbrough so much that he’d probably be my favorite Blazer.
please Tom
I’ve been sticking up for you… but if you play the Hansrough card, you’re making it hard for me
but did you see when he caught a pass flying thru the lane
and Dickie V said: “Wow baby, he’s got nice hands, bro”
Get it? Hands, bro, like Hansbrough?
You only like him because he's white.
You probably think he out-hustles people and has a good work ethic. He’s a real good character guy, solid locker room presence, etc.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on May 1, 2009 3:27 AM PDT up reply actions
actually I hate Hansbrough
he’s white trash though… his family probably owns a tobacco plantation or something that would make me cringe
Yeah.
He really hustles out in the fields though. He’s not super athletic, but he makes up for it with his high tobacco IQ. He’s a cerebral harvester who’s not afraid to get a little dirty. He has a great skill set and is a real team leader.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on May 1, 2009 3:53 AM PDT up reply actions
I think backup PF (inside rebounder / put-back guy mostly which isn’t Frye so far) or starting PG (A. Miller, Felton?) are the main positions of need since I believe we will be pretty-well covered at SF even without Travis.
I share the concern, as noted above. If he was a little cheaper I’d love think someone like Haslem would be nice, but he’s probably a little rich for what the position calls for (until LA gets hurt). I like the idea of bringing back Shav next year as a third-string guy, or maybe he could be good enough as backup PF (??).
put a body on 'em
I wouldn't mind Collison
but maybe it’s just that he always seemed to have big games against us when they were the Sonics. He’s $6.35M next year. Doesn’t seem to bad for a quality veteran PF who still has some years left.
put a body on 'em
Hypothetically, I could get an invite to the Playboy mansion ....
…. and have sex with dozens of young women until my pecker falls off.
Very low chance of it happening and very high chance that most people aren’t interested in hearing about it.
hakkaa päälle !
ironically
all the people on here bashing Travis are hurting his trade value when other GMs read Bedge.
They are only ensuring that he doesn’t get traded soon.
If they had brains, they would be hyping him right now… but I guess that’s too much to ask for, eh, TiH?
I'm not sure other GM's are reading BE but it's a charming thought
Also most GM’s have eyes
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on May 1, 2009 7:18 AM PDT up reply actions
fine analogy
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on May 3, 2009 1:02 AM PDT up reply actions
this is where i really don't get the 'get rid of T.O.' argument
because it seems people are assuming that we can just go pick up Tuff Juice and our team will be that much better.
that being said, consolidation is a good idea at this point.
Yellow Mamba FTW!
Does anyone think that Artest was sweet talking Roy
Artest might be interested in joining blazers? I wouldn’t mind his game and I think we have the players to control him
"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein
by Garden of ODEN on May 2, 2009 8:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Can you use the whole season and or his career as a referendum?
You can? Ok good. Then Outlaw sucks at rebounding.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on May 1, 2009 7:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Rebound are alot instincts too
this is having a good feel for the game which outlaw don’t got.
"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein
by Garden of ODEN on May 2, 2009 8:00 PM PDT up reply actions
the problem with travis is
that he doesnt have a true position.
hes not good enough defensively to check quick small forwards, and not strong enough to take physical 4s……….. however normally his offense negates some of these dificiencies.
Man....
I personally agree that Outlaw seems like the awkward piece to the puzzle. I actually thought he played some of his best defense of his career this series, I guess that isn’t saying much though. My problem with Outlaw is that he is far too one dimensional. I don’t think it would be hard to find a swing man that can score 10 points a night and suck on defense if you do trade Outlaw. Heck, you might even get one that can play some D.
Dont get me wrong, I am ok with keeping Outlaw too. If he is happy coming off the bench and willing to continue to improve(even if it is quite slowly), I am sure there will be a place for him. I just think the smart move is to fill Outlaw’s role with a more experienced player. A guy like Ime Udoka would be cheap and just as effective IMO….
RUDY > MJ
There's a lot more to D than just staying in front of your own guy
Like rotating to help (he’s awful) and rebounding (also awful)
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on May 1, 2009 7:20 AM PDT up reply actions
How about when he acts like he cant get through a screen
because the guy he is gaurding has pinky on him? He acts helpless to get through a screen. As if someone has touched him so his job on the play is over.
Watch Artest fight through screens when gaurding Roy. That is an inherent example how his style of play and decisions on how to handle situations are far from helping.
"Both Anthony Carter and Jameer Nelson were downright jubilant in the Magic locker room postgame. Carter said to no one in particular, "Brandon Roy, that man is unstoppable, it's like he's playing NBA Live" and Nelson was cracking on his teammates for not being able to guard Brandon. The kinds of jokes you can make when you win."
Hey, look, I found a couple of threads about Outlaw from preseason.
http://www.blazersedge.com/2008/10/8/631395/travis-outlaw
Here’s what I wrote about him in October.
I’ve always been open to trading Outlaw
I think it is an overreaction for anyone to change their mind about Outlaw in one pre-season game. With that said, I have never been a big fan of Outlaw’s game. He is an inefficient scorer and a mediocre defender. Inefficient scorers will lose you more games than win them. For some reason, inefficient scorers are valued around the league, so if we can get a good asset coming back, I would be completely in favor of it.
People need to face this reality, Outlaw is a veteran in this league. His game is not going to evolve much from this point forward. Potential is no longer a word that should be associated with Outlaw.
.
.
I was a bit cranky towards zaruga in this one. Hope he didn’t take it personal.
http://www.blazersedge.com/2008/10/11/632848/regarding-that-outlaw-guy
People are legitimately raising concerns about Outlaw’s role and fit with the team. You should not dismiss them as emotional doubts, unrealistic expectations, or some personal vendetta against him. Last year, we had three shot creators in Roy, LMA, and Outlaw. This year we have Oden, Roy, LMA, Rudy, and Bayless, include Sergio if you believe his improvement. His strength, which is creating a shot, is not needed as much. Outlaw is an inefficient scorer who takes bad shots and makes them occasionally (43% FG). His weaknesses in regard to BBIQ, passing, rebounding, decision making, and defense are exactly what’s needed at SF. If you are an Outlaw cheerleader, please keep it on the court, and not make wide sweeping assumptions of people who scrutinize Outlaw, or any player for that matter.
Outlaw has been the same player the last two years. I don’t see any reason for people to change their mind based on this series. Opinions on Outlaw, the player, are not very fluid.
Life is not by chance. Basketball is life.
I like those posts then....
and I like them now. I have been saying close to the same thing since the beginning of last year. I have been saying for Blazer fans to not be mad when he costs the team a big one.
The take on inefficiency is great. There are many guys out there who score but their points dont mean anything or are a negative. These guys are inefficient. Billups gives you great efficiency and changes games in a positive. Iverson, that stat machine ruines teams. This year is a perfect example.
Did I mention we are only talking about Travis’ inefficiency on Offense. Offense is his STRENGTH btw.
"Both Anthony Carter and Jameer Nelson were downright jubilant in the Magic locker room postgame. Carter said to no one in particular, "Brandon Roy, that man is unstoppable, it's like he's playing NBA Live" and Nelson was cracking on his teammates for not being able to guard Brandon. The kinds of jokes you can make when you win."
by loyal_blazer on May 1, 2009 2:24 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
That just about sums it up.
Did I mention we are only talking about Travis’ inefficiency on Offense. Offense is his STRENGTH btw.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on May 1, 2009 3:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Wow--a whole thread got deleted in this post...someone was naughty.
I had a brilliant defense of Travis nested in that thread that is now lost forever.
In short, if Travis got traded, it would be a bummer, but I would get over it if we improved the team.
This inexperienced team took a veteran Houston team to 6 games in the first round, and won 54 games in the regular season. No one’s head should be on the chopping block, there is plenty of blame to go around for losing the series. You can’t single out Travis.
It's spelled "PRZYBILLA."
vanillathrillagorillaprzybilla
by RenoBlazerFan on May 1, 2009 1:56 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
So much hate on this site, it's basically turned into O-live
this is the last comment/post for me.. Peace
by trailblazersfan on May 1, 2009 4:40 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Because people are rightly pointing out how horribly Outlaw played this series, and if we're honest, throughout his entire career?
9 pts, 3 rebs. less than 1 assist – career averages. WOW!
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on May 1, 2009 7:28 AM PDT up reply actions
that's not fair
Travis basically didn’t play his first three years. Between last year and this year, he played well enough.
Yellow Mamba FTW!
Travis has hit his ceiling imo and its not good enough
Travis really needed a strong finish and it just wasn’t there. He more than any other Blazer was responsible for the poor series showing. Disappeared. Totally.
Blazer Fan
He's not good enough... as what?
Travis did not play well this series. That’s no secret.
But what’s the role for which he’s not good enough?
He certainly is good enough to be a primary scorer off the bench. In that role, he’s one of the top 5 or so players in the league.
He’s NOT good enough to be the primary option at the SF spot (which he clearly is and will be even when Web comes back) and he’s certainly not good enough to be the primary back up PF (as he’s a terrible rebounder, and kinda soft, even for a SF).
The Blazers need to fill those two holes – they need a starting SF (unless you think Nic can grow into the role) and they need a back up PF. But as a back up SF, who you’re not dependent upon as the primary option at the three spot, he’s great.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
Travis Outlaw will never play a key role on a championship team
He’s a very one-dimensional, inconsistent, low bbiq player. A good team could possibly get away with playing him under ten minutes a game. More than that and he’ll kill your chances to win with poor shot selection, bad defense, lack of boxing out his man/skill at rebounding, poor overall effort at times, and the inability to understand how to play the game of basketball.
Hope that clears it up!
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on May 1, 2009 7:16 AM PDT up reply actions
That's not to say he won't have a good game every fourth or fifth game and make people go wow
But I can’t defend the guy any longer. It’s year six. He’s peaked.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on May 1, 2009 7:17 AM PDT up reply actions
People said that last year
And yet he didn’t peak – he did improve this year.
Put it this way – if the options are to trade Martell and keep Trout as a back up three, or vice versa, would you really advocate Webster?
Trout has been better than Martell in pretty much every way. Martell’s younger, for sure, so you never know, but he hasn’t put up a season anywhere near as good as Trout’s last three years. There’s nothing to suggest you could rely comfortably on Martell for the bench scoring you get from Trout.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
Give Travis his props
He started actually taking the ball to the basket this year, whereas in years past he would only take jump shots or do that jab-step thing off the dribble. He clearly adds spark to the team offensively off the bench.
But is that enough? His perimeter defense is still a liability. His man to man defense in the post is perhaps even worse.
This is going to be an interesting summer of evaluation for many of the Blazers – and Travis is, IMO, near the top of the list.
Travis barely took the ball to the basket at all, this is false
Check his FT stats if you disagree
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on May 1, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
He actually took more shots close in this year
19% of his shots were “inside” this year compared to 14% last year, which is more of an indictment of how he was in no way a “slasher” last year (Webster took a greater number of close in shots than Trout last year).
He did improve his eFG% on jumpers a ton, mainly by shooting twice as many threes, but as you said, that’s about it.
He improved his three point shooting, thats it
check his stats if you disagree
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on May 1, 2009 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions
No he didn't
He shot 2% less from behind the arc this year. Granted, he took a lot more, but he still shot worse.
ALL Outlaw improved on was his 2% percentage. He went from 43 to 48%. The problem is, he took over 200 less 2 point shots this year. He took 100 less shots overall and 130 more 3 point shots.
The idea that Outlaw improved this year is a myth.
No discussion needed, Outlaw sealed his own fate with his horrible play in this series.
The guy has had 6 years in the league, we are over a third of the way through his NBA career anyone who says keep him. What are you waiting for? He is done developing. Streaky shooting, weak defense, zero rebounding, Basketball IQ is below average, can only play his un-natural position of PF. As a guy coming off the bench he needs to adjust to the team the team should not have to adjust to him when he comes off the bench. I will take my chances and say things will not be much better in his 7th year in the league. Ugh.
This post doesn't seem so positive to me.
The misplaced Jarrett Jack hate has all been put on Mr. Outlaw.
For all the bad Outlaw has done, he’s done just as much good. He was in the discussion for 6th Man of the Year for crying out loud!
Why isn’t Rudy getting skewered by anyone? People left and right were calling for more Rudy… you got it. What did he do with his big promotion and extended time? A measly 1-7, with terrible turnover after terrible turnover. Meanwhile Artest goes off for 27… Batum maybe could’ve switched from Battier and cooled him off in the first quarter, but Rudy wasn’t even an option cuase he flat out can’t defend skilled players. And don’t give me the “He’s a rookie” BS either… his vaunted experience in hyper intense competitions gave him the experience necessary to come in and produce yada yada yada.
That argument I just laid out right there… sounds ridiculous, right? Rudy had a poor night in a less than stellar series, just like everyone not named Roy or Aldridge.
This is why we didn’t want Houston, remember? It’s not Outlaw or Blake or Oden or McMillan… it’s that other team.
But I like to be here. Oh, I like it a lot! Said the Cat in the Hat. To the fish in the pot.
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on May 1, 2009 9:29 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Rudy was good the rest of the series when he got playing time.
Plus he doesn’t nearly get the amount of touches that Travis does. Rudy is hurt by the lack of ball movement, consistent screens, and lack of trust Brandon has for him.
Meanwhile Outlaw got up 60 something shots in this series and was terrible.
I don't agree with the argument that he doesn't get as many touches or playing time.
On average he played 1 minute less per game than Outlaw in the series. He gets the ball often on the offensive side. He then defers. Part of it is being selfless and part of it is not being able to create his own shot. Travis can create his own shot, and therefore takes more of them. And the “lack of trust Brandon has for him” is hogwash.
More importantly, the Rudy thing was a faux-argument to show how ridiculous it is to pinpoint this loss and the series loss on one player.
Outlaw clearly didn’t shine. But no one else did either, including Rudy.
But I like to be here. Oh, I like it a lot! Said the Cat in the Hat. To the fish in the pot.
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on May 1, 2009 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Outlaw didn't shine in any of the games
Rudy had his moments
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on May 1, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
nice analysis.
Steal on Artest followed by dunk. Steal on Scola followed by dunk. Three pointer late in game 5 to help seal it.
He had his moments…
The point I’m making here is that NO ONE BUT ROY AND ALDRIDGE CARRIED THEIR WEIGHT.
But I like to be here. Oh, I like it a lot! Said the Cat in the Hat. To the fish in the pot.
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on May 1, 2009 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree with that point, but I think what people are saying is that much more was expected out of Travis
Which is why his total disappearance is a real bummer. He’s like the guy who cries wolf except instead of wolf he says “I’ve got potential!!”
Then we all believe it and he disappoints us. Again and again.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on May 1, 2009 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions
My honest opinion...
when we finally have the starting 3 we currently lack (be it Webster turning the corner, Batum blooming early, or someone else) and Travis’ role is clearly identified as 15 minutes off the bench for a punch of offense, he will be able to meet expectations.
He’s not our starting 3 for a reason.
But I like to be here. Oh, I like it a lot! Said the Cat in the Hat. To the fish in the pot.
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on May 1, 2009 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions
it seems like your line of thought is the one wraped up in the "potential" perspective
accept 25 for what he is, a scoring backup 3/4, and he’s fine. Blazers just need someone to take over that 3rd scorer position.
Yellow Mamba FTW!
...
Rudy got us back into 2 road games by hitting clutch threes. He kept moving to keep Battier busy which made open looks for Roy.
i thought he should’ve started the last game but then I realized that the Blazers are so used to their current line up that it hurt more than helped. Rudy is a keeper, he has been the biggest difference for this team and a big reason why we won 54 wins. He is also still adjusting to the nba and I expect next year when he isn’t injured and not having Ariza body slamming him to the ground that he will shine and not rely on his three so much (reason why he took so many threes was for a role player position and injury).
Rudy showed what he can do in the playoffs, he just had a bad game.
-brandonmitchell.org
by brandonmitchell on May 1, 2009 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions
...
I’d also like to point out while Rudy did go 1-7 he did manage to get 8 rebounds in the game.
-brandonmitchell.org
by brandonmitchell on May 1, 2009 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Rudy's an NBA rookie whether you like it or not. Outlaw is in year six of his NBA career and has barely improved.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on May 1, 2009 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Rudy had people all over his junk because he's not "the typical NBA rookie"...
You can’t have it both ways, dude.
Also, they were both new to the playoffs. Travis hadn’t been there before either.
But I like to be here. Oh, I like it a lot! Said the Cat in the Hat. To the fish in the pot.
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on May 1, 2009 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
"barely improved" is not true
He was glued to the bench his first three years. He has come a very long way.
He has further to go and he’s not finished improving. This off season is a big one for him – if he doesn’t improve, he will be dealt or be sent back to the bench in favor of Webster and Batum.
I think he sees what is happening on his team and will return next season an improved player yet again. – Elgin
Brandon Roy: Strengths-remarkably efficient player who appears to effortlessly score and facilitate. Weakness-he’s just a figment of your imagination. - Canis Hoopus
Not finished improving?
Statistically, he hasn’t improved in 3 years:
2007 PER: 15.26
2008 PER: 15.64
2009 PER: 15.15
It is delusional to think he’s improving, and further will continue to improve.
"Respect everyone, fear no one." -TP
Hey guess what?
Rudy also grabbed 8 boards in his bad night. You can actually effect the game in a positive way if your shot is falling.
Travis hasnt figured this out.
You also see he took 7 shots, they werent falling—- do you see him jacking up 19 shots?
In basketball the shots dont fall sometimes. Your intelligence would have you work on other aspects of your game and bring them to the table— wether or not your shot falls. Travis lacks this completely….unless his family is in the stands.
"Both Anthony Carter and Jameer Nelson were downright jubilant in the Magic locker room postgame. Carter said to no one in particular, "Brandon Roy, that man is unstoppable, it's like he's playing NBA Live" and Nelson was cracking on his teammates for not being able to guard Brandon. The kinds of jokes you can make when you win."
by loyal_blazer on May 1, 2009 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't get it.
Rudy took 7 shots, made only 1, went 0 for 3 from range (his ONE AND ONLY specialty at this point), took ZERO free throws, had 8 rebounds, turned it over 3 times, and had a team worst -22. Am I correct that you feel he added positively to this game, just because of the rebounds?
If Rudy garnered 8 boards a game there would be a legitimate claim here… but he’s no rebounder, less than 3 per game on the season. Last night was a fluke, an abberation, an outlier… whatever you want to call it. He was in the right spot at the right time when shots caromed off the rim for long rebounds. It’s not as if he was boxing bigs out for those boards.
Travis took 9 shots, not 19. He took 4 free throws, likely meaning he was being aggressive taking it to the rack. This is what players should be doing when their shot isn’t falling. When you’re a regular source of points for a team and and you’re missing shots, NOT SHOOTING doesn’t help. Trying to get some easy points does.
Could Travis do more rebounding or defend better? Of course.
But my point stands… only Roy and Aldridge showed up for this series.
But I like to be here. Oh, I like it a lot! Said the Cat in the Hat. To the fish in the pot.
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on May 1, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions
That was one of Rudy's 2 off games
If LMA had showed up in games 3 or 4, we’d a won them. Instead, LMA showed up for 3/6 games, which wasn’t enough for us.
This series was Roy > Aldridge > Rudy > Blake > Everyone else > Outlaw.
I understand you points fully
I really do, so I don’t want to take from that. The thing is I do not have a problem with bad games, they happen to everyone.
It’s the lack of hustle/effort, lack of attention to detail, bone-head plays in Outlaw’s game that make his good games slightly passable and his bad leaving your nerves fried up.
If you live and die by the jumper and that is the only thing you have in your game, you lack the ability to add to the team with the other aspects— then when the jumper is not falling, you are really killing your team.
"Both Anthony Carter and Jameer Nelson were downright jubilant in the Magic locker room postgame. Carter said to no one in particular, "Brandon Roy, that man is unstoppable, it's like he's playing NBA Live" and Nelson was cracking on his teammates for not being able to guard Brandon. The kinds of jokes you can make when you win."
I find it hard to question his effort...
and can find boneheaded plays by everyone on the roster.
If you live and die by the jumper and that is the only thing you have in your game, you lack the ability to add to the team with the other aspects— then when the jumper is not falling, you are really killing your team.
That was most of our team last night, and most of our team throughout the series. To say this without implying that it pertains to not just Travis is not fair. I would go as far as to say it better describes Rudy’s game at this time… Travis has more than a spot up three to his game, whereas that’s the only constant to Rudy’s game right now.
But I like to be here. Oh, I like it a lot! Said the Cat in the Hat. To the fish in the pot.
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on May 1, 2009 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions
this is funny
i was thinking that someone should do this right after the game finished last night because i knew there would be 5 Fanposts up instantly. GOOD CALL!
- Neil
One thing about Outlaw also is that I don't believe he possesses the love of the game that a Brandon Roy does for example
I think today Travis is perfectly happy going home to Miss. and throwing his pole in the water.
To those of you who think Travis Outlaw is a passionate basketball-loving competitor, I’d be curious to hear what you base that on.
Blazer Fan
This would help explain why in year six he's still basically the same player he was in year three when he started getting minutes
The one thing Outlaw has improved since 06-07 is his three point shooting which I will admit is pretty good. But the rest of his game? The same, arguably worse. Some guys burn to get better. Some guys don’t.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on May 1, 2009 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm curious to know what you're basing his nonlove for the game on.
That’s a baseless claim.
Has he ever come out and said, “yeah, basketball is just okay.”? Maybe I missed that article.
You may very well be right, but I don’t think you have anything to substantiate that claim.
But I like to be here. Oh, I like it a lot! Said the Cat in the Hat. To the fish in the pot.
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on May 1, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm basing that opinion off of countless interviews and his body language
Also his play. And yeah it’s an opinion only, I didn’t state it as fact.
Still, deep down most of you know I’m right.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on May 1, 2009 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions
And feel free to counter my argument with quotes of Outlaw saying how much he loves hoops and how much he hates to lose
Also by providing examples of Outlaw showing emotion and leadership on the court. Don’t worry I’ve got plenty of time for you to find those examples. I have a feeling you might need awhile.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on May 1, 2009 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions
I read his body language as someone who so badly wants to succeed...
someone who so badly wants to deliver for himself, his family, and the “fans” (quotes here because I’m not sure who qualifies as a fan sometimes) that he feels like he let everyone down.
To me, that’s the sign of someone who IS passionate about what they’re doing.
But I like to be here. Oh, I like it a lot! Said the Cat in the Hat. To the fish in the pot.
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on May 1, 2009 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Baseless claim?
He comes into camp outof shape every year because he eats like crap in the off season. He isn’t required to stay in shape, but if he loved the game, he probably would.
Lame.
So you’re saying that because Clyde Drexler and Allen Iverson weren’t believers in giving it their all in practice, they didn’t love the game?
That’s crap, dude. Weaksauce argument.
But I like to be here. Oh, I like it a lot! Said the Cat in the Hat. To the fish in the pot.
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on May 1, 2009 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Giving their all in practice?
I’m talking about Outlaw coming to camp EVERY season completely out of shape. Drexler and AI must have found some time to practive because they both got pretty dang good. Outlaw improves DURING the season every year, but then regresses at the beginning of the next season because of his lack of work ethic.
He’s no Darius, but if you’re going to argue for or against work ethic, it’d be easier to go against it.
On this point
I am in full agreement. I love his attitude, but Outlaw is not a killer.
Whatever happens, I think he’ll be just fine. He seems like a very easy going, life lovin’ dude.
“Travis, do you want to go get the team doughnuts”?
“Yeah, sure coach.”
“Travis, do you want to take the last season-deciding last shot of game 7?”
“Yeah, sure coach.”
Love me some Trout!!!
This is insane
you have no basis for making that claim. it’s insulting to him and to the team.
Yellow Mamba FTW!
I never understood the Outlaw hate
sure he can be frustrating to watch, but he is a great personality, he’s had so many big games and shots for Portland, and everyone on the team seems to genuinely like him.
Great personality? I mean I agree if you're saying he's probably a nice guy but I wouldn't think a conversation with him would be all that interesting.
I don’t think we hate him as a person, just hate him constantly sabotaging our team with his inconsistent play.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on May 1, 2009 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions
so he's constant and inconsistent?
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on May 3, 2009 1:14 AM PDT up reply actions
PUT IT TO BED PEOPLE.
Anyone with one eyeball and a basic understanding of Basketball can see Outlaw hurts more than he helps. Maybe he won us a few games, but he easily lost us more.
“BUT HE’S A GREAT GUY!!!!!!!! TEAM CHEMISTRY!!!!!! OFF THE COURT VARIABLES!!!!!”
Maybe he is a great guy. Invite him to your BBQ this summer. It’s obvious we need a starting PG and a backup PF to be succesful. Travis is expendable, just like Channing, Sergio, Bayless, etc.
There’s no point in having this argument because he WILL NOT BE A BLAZER after the summer. So keep talking about how nice he is, how good of a player he is and that secretly you wish he’d hold you in his long, weak arms every night before you fall asleep but when all is said and done the people upstairs that KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT WE NEED TO WIN will have traded him because he has hit the ceiling and does not fit the team.
Life is hilarious.
Rec'd
Because I want this to stay up top, and limit the Trout bashing to one post. I definitely have man-love for Outlaw and would love to see him stick around.
by T$ 225 on May 1, 2009 11:07 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
How much do you think we would have hated Luol Deng?
A player with about the same age and experience as Travis (1 year less) who was rumored to be high on the list of Blazers targets . He did not exactly deliver delivering much more production. He has been bad from outside and has taken just a tiny fraction of Travis shots. He is also more “injury-prone” (back, leg). As much as I hate that label, Travis is many things but that he is not. Let’s see how they compare:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/tiny.cgi?id=NVL55
Yes, Deng plays slightly better defense and gets 1 or 2 rebounds more (per game or per 36 minutes). But the Bulls have now secured his services seemingly forever at the following price tag beginning next season: $10,365,000; $11,345,000; $12,325,000; $13,365,000; $14,275,000
I agree that there are small forwards in the league I would like to have above Travis (Granger, Prince, Wallace, …). But since those are not exactly available for cheap, we can be very happy with what Travis brings.
His production comes at $4 million per year, and it’s likely the Blazers could then extend him to a similar deal like Martell got. As has been hinted above already, a number of opposing GMs would run the doors of KP’s office in to get that player as their sixth man if he put out a “for sale” sign.
A Luol Deng or a Richard Jefferson (also rumored) brings you a little more, but at three times the price.
Before the season I thought small forward was a position of weakness for the Blazers. Now I’m fairly convinced it is a position of strength. If anything, they can try to convert Travis and/or Martell into a super player when they feel like it. If that is not possible, we have a very good rotation for that spot with a lot of youth going forward. It’s likely one of those three guys will pan out into a great player.
Congrats to Houston. Beat LA!
Going forward Blazers have 5 draft picks, and Rockets have none :)
by Norsktroll on May 1, 2009 11:19 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
P.S.: If you think that’s not fair since Deng was injured late in the season (which is part of my point though), compare cumulative seasons Per 36 http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/tiny.cgi?id=3bNr9
Congrats to Houston. Beat LA!
Going forward Blazers have 5 draft picks, and Rockets have none :)
Never wanted Deng
I think a lot of his hype was from the fact that he’d a come in with Hinrich. Most of the guys we looked at weren’t really upgrades IMO.
I still see posts for Hinrich and Deng today. But yes, I'm also not a big fan of him since I doubt he puts us over the top
Completely unlike Travis, he also has a nasty habit of disappearing in final minutes. Travis goes to the ball. Sometimes he bricks it, but nobody can claim he doesn’t want the responsibility.
Congrats to Houston. Beat LA!
Going forward Blazers have 5 draft picks, and Rockets have none :)
I've never wanted Luol Deng, Richard Jefferson, et al.
I did support acquiring Vince Carter, however, although I’ve now backed off of that position.
There were some good arguments for considering Carter.
Of course that doesn’t make up for you claiming we should have traded Outlaw for Mike Miller.
hakkaa päälle !
I have never wanted Deng, for the record.
But yes there are those who did. I am in favor of trading Outlaw for an upgrade however I’m not an “Outlaw hater”.
I’m sad that he played so poorly in the playoffs. He did try, but failed pretty bad. My issue is that he is supposed to be the scoring punch off the bench. Which he was during the regular season. In the playoffs though he suddenly lost his touch. I’m willing to give him another chance but I still say if a deal comes along that looks decent enough take it.
I disagree
It’s likely one of those three guys will pan out into a great player?
First, there is virtually zero chance Trout becomes a great player. He might continue to develop. But he has shown virtually no signs of being a competent defender or defender, much less great.
Martell hasn’t shown much of anything. He’s never had a PER over 13. I guess theoretically anyone could develop into a great player, especially anyone who’s had a 21 point quarter. But there’s no reasonable basis for believing it’s likely he’ll be very good, much less great.
Nic is very young. Hard to say with him. He seems to have by far the best chance of developing into the type of complete SF the Blazers need, as he certainly seems to have the physical gifts, provided he can gain strength. But he has a LONG way to go.
Deng and Outlaw have similar stats this year. You’re right about that. But it’s similar to the Blake/Hinrich comparison – that’s not a bad thing. If you could get the same offensive production from Outlaw, without the mindfarts and the bad shots, and with strong defense and rebounding, that’s a great player for the Blazers to pencil in every night.
He is expensive though. I doubt it’ll happen for that reason. Too much money to take on in these uncertain economic times.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
If you think SF is a strength you should watch more games
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on May 1, 2009 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions
There were not more. I agree there are better players, I still don't think that's our biggest problem right now with three solid players next year to figure things out. Maybe at the deadline.
Congrats to Houston. Beat LA!
Going forward Blazers have 5 draft picks, and Rockets have none :)
I love reading threads a day late!
You insult him, twice, and he responds with intelligence. Pearls before swine
He’s watched a few games
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on May 3, 2009 1:25 AM PDT up reply actions
One of the many reasons your name comes to mind ....
…. when I think of BEdger’s who actually comment from a knowledgeable perspective.
hakkaa päälle !
I've said it before, and I'll say it again
Travis is a useful weapon. The problem with Travis is that we have to play him even when he is “off”. This past season, we had only one other legit 3 (Batum), and our other backup 4 (Frye) is a mediocre player. So Trout has to play even in positions he’s not cut out for.
Going against Houston’s physical forwards was not Travis’ style. And Outlaw isn’t (yet) good enough to force his style, and may not be.
THUS—-
I view Travis as expendable. Not in the “get rid of him ASAP” category, not in the “fire sale!” categor,y but in the “he can be had for a reasonable price” category. If trading Trout can get us a player who is a better fit long-term, so be it.
Barring that—what Travis needs is a backup PF (whether a 3/4, a 4/5, or a straight 4) who can come in, muscle people around, post up, get boards, not screw up, and hit jumpers if unguarded. These players aren’t hard to find—most teams have one. That way, if Travis come out and is cold as ice, he can be sent back to the bench. If he’s on fire, though, watch out.
In some ways, Trout is like our Von Wafer; except overall he’s a better player. The difference is, Von wasn’t being guarded by anyone who is all that good at defense, whereas Travis was being defended by a bunch of elite defenders. Houston is a good fit for Von, as they have the depth and defensive chops in the backcourt so his strength (scoring) is emphasized and his liability (everything else) is minimized. Trout needs that here, if he is to be successful.
Having Martell back will help; but I’d like one more good stout forward for the rotation.
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
by EngineerScotty on May 1, 2009 11:21 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
In some ways, Trout is like our Von Wafer; except overall he’s a better player. The difference is, Von wasn’t being guarded by anyone who is all that good at defense, whereas Travis was being defended by a bunch of elite defenders. Houston is a good fit for Von, as they have the depth and defensive chops in the backcourt so his strength (scoring) is emphasized and his liability (everything else) is minimized. Trout needs that here, if he is to be successful.
Very interesting comparison.
Expendable is a good term to use. It’s not required that he leaves. KP should make sure he gets good value for him if he’s traded. And if he stays, we need to make sure the team around him fosters his offense and covers for what he’s missing.
(You get a rec for the post too. Good stuff)
Couldn't say it better myself...
Having a consistent player at the three and/or backup four means that the team doesn’t have to push Outlaw into large minutes when his game is off.
As an aside, do Travis’ defensive woes have anything at all to do with his pigeon-toed, goofy gait? His footwork always looks like a tangled mess to me. Aside from his crazy leaping ability, I’ve never been excited by his body mechanics.
Considering Travis is off at least half the time and you never know when that will be
That’s a problem
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on May 1, 2009 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions
The Blazers big decision
this off-season will be at the 1 and the 3 spots.
Ideally, to pair with an Awesome All-Around Offensive Weapon like Roy, you will have a) 1 slasher, and b) 1 perimeter gunner who can shoot quickly. (Guys like Jason Kopono who can’t shoot with a hand in their face, need not apply).
The Blazers big problem is that they mostly have gunners, and not enough slashers.
Blake is an outside shooter, but not a threat to penetrate. Same with Rudy, though he’s getting better. Webster is all about outside shooting. Batum right now is mainly a shooter, though he might improve. Trout can penetrate, but his ballhandling is weak—and he can get shots off on anybody. Sergio doesn’t really do either well. Bayless has shown he can penetrate, but he hasn’t developed a second trick (either good passing skills or good outside shooting) to merit honest defense.
The Blazers need to decide—who, in their starting lineup, will be the shooter, and who will be the slasher.
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
by EngineerScotty on May 1, 2009 11:36 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Webster and Batum
I feel that both of those guys can pick up slashing, and probably do it a little bit better than Outlaw. It’s kind of sad that I remember the times that Batum drove to the basket more than the times Outlaw did it.
I think Trout will be gone this offseason.
He still has value, and I think some team would love to have him. He simply does not have a game that is optimal for a slow, grind it out physical playoff series that we need. I am not a Trout hater, as I have learned to live with what he does, but watching this series I think the flaws in his game have become magnified. He is a shooter, and not much more. If he played the 2 maybe he could be a match-up nightmare, but not the 4. If we keep him I hope he proves me wrong. But I think we have seen the zenith of his play.
his game is fine...
his mental toughness and shot selection are the biggest problems offensively for me. i don’t even want to mention his defense.
I got 6 years of playoff blue balls going on, and I'm ready to release. GO BLAZERS. ~Mortimer
by Philthyanimal on May 1, 2009 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Calm down People!
I cant believe the hate coming towards Catfish Outlaw, as if he was the reason we lost.
It seems that most of you have forgotten that he almost won 6th man of the year, and has multiple game winners to his name. Yes he has lapses in his defense, needs to penetrate better, and needs some post moves. But outside of Roy, who is perfect on this team?
Blake played HORRIBLE.
Oden was mostly USELESS.
Is Batum alive?
Frye is a one trick pony
Rudy didnt do much either.
Outlaw was not the reason we lost.
We got beat by a more experienced team that executed far better than the Blazers. To be championship material we need upgrades at a lot of positions, and that might include Outlaw. But having a guy that can get his own shot off the bench isnt so bad. Im not an Outlaw lover, but I find it funny that a bench players gets blamed for all the ills of the team.
Hi fans it Brandon Roy.
And ME.....LaMarcus Aldridge
by Derftron on May 1, 2009 11:51 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
In terms of value, what Outlaw gives in offense production for his $$$ his stellar. As Derfton pointed out, we’re talking about a vote-recipient in the TOP 6-TH MAN IN THE NBA. To judge his future value based on one playoff series is absolutely ludicrous.
That said, we know Outlaw has some weaknesses – his defense can improve, his fundamentals on rebounding aren’t there yet (boxing out, rebounding IQ, etc.), and up until his outburst of emotion in game 5, I haven’t been impressed with his drive. But unless we’re going to get a VERY, VERY GOOD swingman in the 3-position, TROUT is a perfect weapon to pull off the bench.
Not to mention that he’s a likeable, humble character that fits in very well with what the Blazers are trying to project in this rebuilding process. Unless we’re going to get outstanding value for him, there’s little value in dumping him or hating on him.
Lastly, I personally think the matchup & lingering hand injury didn’t help TROUT at all in this series, but I’m going to jump on the hate bandwagon because TROUT still has plenty of room to grow, and not only will TROUT grow from this, but hopefully Sarge will better learn to use his strengths and avoid his weaknesses in the future.
My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives
You are comparing Outlaw to four non-scorers and a rookie from overseas. Why?
Travis Outlaw is a six-year NBA vet
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on May 1, 2009 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah we need more vets
"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein
by Garden of ODEN on May 2, 2009 8:24 PM PDT up reply actions
watching john salmons last night made me regret not trading for him, he has a nice blend of inside out game
Blazer fan in NYC!! REPRESENT!!!
I LOVE Outlaw the person.
Outlaw the basketball player……not so much. I would not lose much sleep if we traded him this summer. As long as we get something of equal value in return. Not a fire sale trade.
My favorite teams are the Blazers and any team that is playing the Lakers.
In the last game of the series
we needed Outlaw, Blake, and Rudy to step up. Neither of them did.
I’d like to see all three of them work hard this off season to improve their game, so all three of them will make a larger contribution within the context of this team.
Outlaw will be on the team next season if KP can’t swing a deal to improve the ball club. Otherwise he will be back. Deal with it haters! – Elgin
Brandon Roy: Strengths-remarkably efficient player who appears to effortlessly score and facilitate. Weakness-he’s just a figment of your imagination. - Canis Hoopus
I'm going to start a campaign to rec the hell out of at least 4 fanposts
in order to drop this embarrassing post into oblivion.
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
by annthefan on May 1, 2009 12:24 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
It's a service to the site
You knock this off, there will be 7 more that come up in its place. Consolidation’s the name of the game.
I object to the title and the sentiment. He's not a piece of trash to be discarded.
If Travis needs to be traded so be it. He’s the resident scapegoat at the Bedge and if he goes you’ll just find someone else to berate and castigate for the faults of the team. I’m sick of the unwarranted name calling where Travis is concerned. Every time I see it I understand that those comments are a reflection on the name caller who probably has the IQ of a mollusk but it doesn’t make the stupidity any easier to digest.
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
by annthefan on May 1, 2009 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Case in point. Here's a mollusk comment.
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
I'd argue that you are doing mollusks a disservice.
This guy is more like whale poo.
hakkaa päälle !
There has to be a million ways better than this
to state your opinion. Try being less obnoxious.
Whether Travis should be on the team or not next season is an interesting discussion. Calling him a piece of trash ends the discussion. Let’s try to keep the discussion going by making positive statements rather than trashing the guy. – Elgin
Brandon Roy: Strengths-remarkably efficient player who appears to effortlessly score and facilitate. Weakness-he’s just a figment of your imagination. - Canis Hoopus
travis is not an addition by subtraction situation....
I think he is replaceable and likely upgradable, but to say he needs to go regardless of the circumstances is not very smart IMO…
RUDY > MJ
Can't argue with that
Trout is one of the top 10 bench players in the league, who’s 25 years old, makes $4 million per season, has a 40+ inch vertical, and is universally considered one of the most well liked locker room guys on the team.
The idea that anyone would want to “get rid of him” (as opposed to necessarily including a valuable contributor in a trade to consolidate talent) is ridiculous and unappreciative of Trout’s contributions.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
Ann, I think you're great!
Always loved how you stand up for Trout whenever he takes a pounding and you’ve had to do it all year.
I also like how you never lose fact that these players are people and not some objects that we own just because we are fans of the team.
A lot of fanatics don’t have that sensitivity… so your posts almost always make me smile… always make me smile when the tone is very negative.
by QuebecBlzrFan on May 1, 2009 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions
lol this is silly. why do you hate reality? stop being a homer
There’s nothing stupid about this thread
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on May 1, 2009 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Mollusk
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
Some have shells,some dont
Could you be more specific?
by southern oregon on May 1, 2009 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree about the title
Its too harsh to treat Outlaw like an old bag of socks. He’s been a Blazer for 6 years and an integral part of the turnaround.
Life is not by chance. Basketball is life.
More like a hanger-on
With all due respect nothing Travis Outlaw does on the court has propelled us anywhere
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on May 1, 2009 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Outlaw has been the 2nd leading scorer in the 4th quarter for the Blazers
He’s the only reliable player outside of LMA and Roy who can create their own shot. Outlaw improved his FG% to 45.3% and doubled his previous season high of 3-pointers made. I’m not a big fan of Outlaw, but to dismiss his contribution as something of a cancer is wholly inaccurate.
Life is not by chance. Basketball is life.
Outlaw can fit a role
The problem is the role the Blazers ask him to fill. Yes he is a scorer. No, he did not score in the playoffs. If all he was to this team was a scorer, he would have just been moved aside for someone else. The problem is that as soon as he enters the game at SF, he is immediately asked to guard the opponents best player (and there is no question he is a terrible defender). As soon as he enters the game at PF, his asked to rebound (and there is no question he is quite possibly the worst rebounder on the team).
If you look at Detroit when they had Vinny Johnson, they were extremely well rounded and balanced at every other position defensively. They could afford a pure scorer. The Blazers are not well round at every other position defensively.
Correct, sir.
We need a starting 3 that is legit on offense and defense. With true bench limits (15-20), Outlaw can fulfill his role of pure scoring punch to the T.
But I like to be here. Oh, I like it a lot! Said the Cat in the Hat. To the fish in the pot.
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on May 1, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Indeed
Outlaw has been great coming off the bench this season. The guys was in contention for the 6th man award. It’s also easy to try and blame the series woes on him, but look at what he was up against. Artest and Battier had to be some of the toughest guys for him to do his thing against.
Also, Travis isn;t the only bench guy who struggled. Rudy had his ups and down this series, and Sergio had his…um downs. Bottom line, the guy had a great season and had a tough 1st time playoff series against a good defensive team.
There are 18 recs for this thread and there should be 18 e-mails in my inbox
Tominhawaii: [(Standing in the rain outside of Blazers Edge Hall] ) Cowards!
The bottom line is that Travis Outlaw is irreplaceable and should not be traded under any circumstances. End of discussion.
by tominhawaii on May 1, 2009 1:50 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Well I wouldn't go that far.
If KP trades him straight up for LeBron, I don’t think we can be upset about that deal.
Not too much anyway.
But you’re probably not serious.
A lot of people think he’s the reason why the team is not still playing in the playoffs, though, and that’s several bridges too far. – Elgin
Brandon Roy: Strengths-remarkably efficient player who appears to effortlessly score and facilitate. Weakness-he’s just a figment of your imagination. - Canis Hoopus
I'm serious
People who blame the 4th or 5th best player on the team for being out of the playoffs are delusional. The NBA is a team game.
I think that is exactly why people dont like Outlaw's game....
The nba is a team game, and Outlaw is for the most part a one on one. offensive player. He doesnt seem to fit into the system very well. He needs lots of iso plays run for him and that generally isnt a recipe for success. I agree he didnt lose the playoffs for us, but he contributed as much as any single player towards the losses IMO…
RUDY > MJ
Bahahahahahah
HahahahahahahahHahahahahahahahHahahahahahahahHahahahahahahahHahahahahahahahHahahahahahahahHahahahahahahah
Thats a good one. Irreplaceable?
BahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahBahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahBahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahBahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
"Both Anthony Carter and Jameer Nelson were downright jubilant in the Magic locker room postgame. Carter said to no one in particular, "Brandon Roy, that man is unstoppable, it's like he's playing NBA Live" and Nelson was cracking on his teammates for not being able to guard Brandon. The kinds of jokes you can make when you win."
Mollusk
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
Thanks!
"Both Anthony Carter and Jameer Nelson were downright jubilant in the Magic locker room postgame. Carter said to no one in particular, "Brandon Roy, that man is unstoppable, it's like he's playing NBA Live" and Nelson was cracking on his teammates for not being able to guard Brandon. The kinds of jokes you can make when you win."
Well deserved.
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
Actually, the vaguely incoherent "I cun whup alls of youse" post with the email address seems to have been (not surprisingly) deleted...
There are 18 recs for this thread and there should be 18 e-mails in my inbox
Tominhawaii: [(Standing in the rain outside of Blazers Edge Hall] ) Cowards!
Pontiff of the Pryz for Prez Posse...
I tried to skim through to find this, but I didn't see it mentioned
Brandon Roy and Travis Outlaw are best friends.
Doesn’t that mean anything to the people calling for his head? Things would not go well, chemistry-wise, if the Blazers dumped Outlaw.
Sorry, but I just don’t see how the Blazers get rid of this guy.
I know less than half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
Off-court chemistry is of no substantive value.
There’s a definite difference between being friends and co-workers — although some folks can be both with each other, in spite of it being an unnecessary quality for success in the workplace — regardless if the work environment is an office or a professional sports franchise.
is this true where you work?
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on May 3, 2009 1:32 AM PDT up reply actions
wrong
Brandon Roy’s best friends are from Seattle…
He’s more of a family guy anyway.
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
DREW GOODEN
10ppg in 16 minutes for the Spurs.
We need him to be our backup PF banger. You heard it here first.
OK but when he shows up with that ugly beard
etc, it will be your fault. O_0 – Elgin
Brandon Roy: Strengths-remarkably efficient player who appears to effortlessly score and facilitate. Weakness-he’s just a figment of your imagination. - Canis Hoopus
Bill Simons really nailed it for once.
“Know when I knew it was over for the Spurs? When they signed Drew Gooden. Good rebounder, decent inside scorer, total knucklehead. He grew a mini-beard on the back of his neck three years ago. He let down LeBron so many times that LeBron developed an actual “Drew Gooden disappointed me yet again and I might have to kill him soon” frown. When he went to Chicago, Cleveland immediately became a better team. The Bulls dumped him and they immediately became better. He’s exactly the type of player the Spurs NEVER sign: someone who looks better on paper than he actually is. I just thought it seemed like a desperate move. And it was."-Bill Simmons
He’s like a poor mans Zach Randolph.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on May 1, 2009 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Cleveland got better without him?
They ended the season 11-11 that year and then lost in the playoffs. Not exactly a great success once they ditched him. They got better this year because they added Mo.
Chicago was also a .500 team with him and a .500 team without him this year.
Spurs ended the year just fine as well, they did no better or no worse with Gooden. They lost in the playoffs because they didn’t have Manu. Granted, Gooden sucked in the playoffs but he was also playing injured, something he shouldn’t have been doing.
None of these 3 teams got better immediately after ditching Gooden. The one team that has improved since his departure did so because of off-season moves. And yes, Chicago is doing good in the playoffs now, but does anyone think this series would still be going if Garnett was playing?
(I’m not hyping Gooden to be some kind of savior either, but Simmons didn’t bother to look at actual results when saying “Cleveland immediately got better”)
Thay all got better.
Their records may or may not reflect that, but both Cleveland and Chicago are better without him. It’s also interesting that none of those teams cared if he stayed or not. General managers were more than willing to trade him or just let him out of his contract. Not exactly the kind of attitude you usually see towards productive players.
Roy is the best player in the world with the exception of Incarcerated Mike from Queensbridge .
by Nick Van Excellent on May 1, 2009 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Cleveland did get better
Mo helped out, but Cleveland immediately became much, much better without Drizzle fingers. I live in Ohio, watched every game, and went to a few of them.
They got much better, in fact. Lebron got hurt and missed a few games, and they had a few other injuries that caused them to go 11-11.
You say they “lost in the playoffs”… a little simplistic, no? They took Boston to 7 games, killed them in point differential, and were neck and neck down the stretch in multiple games Boston won, including the last one. Without a few incredibly timely eighteen foot jumpers by PJ Brown’s temporarily revived corpse, they would’ve knocked off the champs.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
I'll take your word for it
I seriously doubt that all they did was boot Gooden to go from “500 team” to “Celtics Caliber team” though.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s not an “addition by subtraction” situation per se. They improved because Delonte West, Big Ben, and Joe Smith are all MORE valuable than Gooden.
Maybe my criticism of Drizzle Fingers goes too far. I don’t think he’s one of those guys who doesn’t care, nor is he “bad” exactly. He just has a low BBIQ. Not somebody you want as a starting PF, but maybe not a bad back up for a reasonable price, I guess. I’m starting to come around to that idea.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
Same with Chicago, actually
They had like the ninth best record in the league after the all-star break. They weren’t anywhere close to .500 sans Gooden.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
...........
15-16 in games Gooden played
Meaning they were 26-25 in games he did not play. That is pretty close to .500.
1st post keep outlaw
Okay guys here it goes my first post …. We need to keep Travis Outlaw! While i acknowledge that he certianly has his flaws, as dose every bench player in the league, but he has something that few other player off the bench have and that clutch scoring ability. How many games did travis win with a clutch shot. If we don’t have outlaw at the end of games the blazers become quite a bit more predictable, teams will double brandon and make it hard to get it to LA, so who takes the shot then? We need Travis for that reason he is a good scorer at the end of the game.
by NickyB on May 1, 2009 2:50 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
His clutch ability is overrated
How many times did he shoot us out of a game the way Artest did in game 2? Its the game winners we remember bc of the large comebacks…but in the end how many times do we remember losses over the long run? I know for a fact many of us cursed Outlaw just as much as we praised him.
I do like what Travis brings and I don’t mind keeping him, but I don’t think he is a cornerstone of this franchise and I would not be disappointed if he was not in a Blazer uniform.
I got 6 years of playoff blue balls going on, and I'm ready to release. GO BLAZERS. ~Mortimer
by Philthyanimal on May 1, 2009 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions
This whole fanpost needs to be deleted.
Any reasonable conversation has been overwhelmed by stupidity, personal attacks and hate. Disappointing.
It's spelled "PRZYBILLA."
vanillathrillagorillaprzybilla
That's right!
Let’s get rid of all the opinions around here!
"Both Anthony Carter and Jameer Nelson were downright jubilant in the Magic locker room postgame. Carter said to no one in particular, "Brandon Roy, that man is unstoppable, it's like he's playing NBA Live" and Nelson was cracking on his teammates for not being able to guard Brandon. The kinds of jokes you can make when you win."
God, shut up
Most of the annoying whining is coming from the homer Outlaw fanboys
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on May 1, 2009 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Mollusk
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
Seriously there's nothing stupider than coming onto a thread you disagree with and calling the people posting stupid
without giving any sort of constructive opinion about why you think they’re wrong. It’s exactly the sort of garbage that has come to pollute this site.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on May 1, 2009 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I just thanked annthefan
and moved on. I have been called worse. Dont worry about her you damn Mollusk!
"Both Anthony Carter and Jameer Nelson were downright jubilant in the Magic locker room postgame. Carter said to no one in particular, "Brandon Roy, that man is unstoppable, it's like he's playing NBA Live" and Nelson was cracking on his teammates for not being able to guard Brandon. The kinds of jokes you can make when you win."
I commented on my opinion on Travis on this thread up towards the top (late last night).
But now the whole thread is pretty ugly, and there is a lot of posters here I really like…it’s just gotten too O-live-ish here.
Do I need to explain what is wrong? Really? How is a bunch of name calling a constructive conversation? I didn’t single anyone out, I said it’s generally stupid and disappointing. If you take it personally I can’t help that.
Constructive opinion: follow Dave’s guidelines on discussion. Simple.
It's spelled "PRZYBILLA."
vanillathrillagorillaprzybilla
by RenoBlazerFan on May 1, 2009 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions
People are just venting
I’m just happy it’s not spilling into everywhere else. That’s what would happen without this.
You called people who like Outlaw "homer Outlaw fanboys"
That’s what normally draws me into this stupid argument because anyone who likes Outlaw gets mocked and called a homer. Half the Outlaw haters have trouble comprehending that there are fans of a Blazer player on a Blazers Fan blog and dismiss them as “homers.”
Haha. The pot calling the kettle black.
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
Eat the[mollusk] head
feed them cornmeal for 24 hours and sautee in butter
by southern oregon on May 1, 2009 8:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Even sauteing in butter wouldn't make them palatable.
There’s not enough cornmeal in the world to clean out the excremental effluvia these mollusks are filled with.
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
..... off.
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
leeroyjenkins dont worry about this one
I was called a Mollusk too just a little bit ago.
Looks like we know who the TO homers are.
"Both Anthony Carter and Jameer Nelson were downright jubilant in the Magic locker room postgame. Carter said to no one in particular, "Brandon Roy, that man is unstoppable, it's like he's playing NBA Live" and Nelson was cracking on his teammates for not being able to guard Brandon. The kinds of jokes you can make when you win."
Travis haters!
I like him. He has some fire in him. And some courage. And I think he had a great season. Travis Outlaw is an excellent 6th man. He may not have improved statistically that much, but I think he carried more responsibiity this year, and I think he zones out far less than he used to.
And in this series, I think he is catching the flack for our ineffective offense.
Am I the only one who saw the whole team struggle to get good looks? Especially on the wings? The way to play Houston is to break down the defense through effective, quick passing and movement. We sucked at that. So why should Travis catch the flack for our offensive problems in general?
In this series, the wings received the ball out of rhythm, often with dwindling time on the clock and with the defense fully rotated. Sure, LeBron can do something in these circumstances, but no one we’re gonna get is gonna do much better.
Travis has demonstrated to be an integral part of the team. And if he is a good locker room guy, that is important too.
I wanna see improvement first at the PF. And I want to see this team learn how to move the ball.
So pipe down! ;)
Well, if we look at stats .... blah
Everyone wants an easy answer. For most fans, improving isn’t something they can see. Especially not team improvement on the things you mentioned. They just see guys that already learned how to do this and that, and say, “let’s just get that guy.” It makes a lot of sense, but it’s incredibly myopic and a little disloyal. Disloyal in that the laziness with the thought process should be overcome before turning on one of our own. All other reasons should be exhausted and explored before advocating trades.
First and foremost, we need to consider his age. He’s young still. The ability to improve, mature and learn is there. Maturity is probably inevitable and will significantly increase his game. I’d like to watch him get there just cause it’s fun… and a little crazy. Love you trout.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
thank you hobobob!
For calling out the statistically addled. I call it the forest through the trees syndrome. It’s as if basketball is the sum of 5 individual match-ups. Such a dim understanding of the game!
Guess we’re generalists!
And I can’t help liking Trout too. He’s such a dork! And seemingly very good-natured…
If Travis has a career ending injury while fishing this summer
does KP get insurance $$$ to play with?
First of all, I do not hope this happens. I would never wish injury on somebody.
This is just a contingency I want to cover. I want to do our due diligence before the draft.
For what Trout is...i say keep him
Sure he drives me crazy and all that…but for the production he gives at such a decent salary, I see no reason to put him on the chopping block. He has learned to adjust to his role on offense much better this year. He has also improved in many areas offensively that he was weak in, and started to become a more complete scorer for us. I would be happy if he stayed, but if Nate reduced his role to maybe that of Rudy’s current role now (25 mpg). If Nate wouldn’t use him as a primary scorer but as a 2ndary option I don’t mind him being here. If we could net an impact player for him, I wouldn’t be sad to see him go either, but by no means should we make it a priority to get rid of him.
I got 6 years of playoff blue balls going on, and I'm ready to release. GO BLAZERS. ~Mortimer
Reading this thread kind of makes me sick
Ok…I understand that we are all a bit emotional after yesterdays loss. I have my issues with Trout, but at the same time he is currently wearing a Blazers jersey…and we are all Blazers fans. It sickens me to see so much hate for someone on our team and for our fellow fans who back that player up. I’m not going to blindly defend Travis, Roy, or anyone else on that team, but it disturbs me when people want to see certain Blazers fail, so that their favorite Blazer will have a chance at success.
I got 6 years of playoff blue balls going on, and I'm ready to release. GO BLAZERS. ~Mortimer
by Philthyanimal on May 1, 2009 4:58 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
I don't want to 'get rid' of Travis
But if a trade came along for a true power forward I would be ok with letting him go. Rudy is the new Travis. If we do trade him though, it better be to a team in the east. It would be too painful to play against him 4 times a year.
"The brownies,'' Fernandez said after the game. "The brownies are good for me to make three-points.''
by Sabonis4Ever on May 1, 2009 4:58 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
as usual
agreed
I got 6 years of playoff blue balls going on, and I'm ready to release. GO BLAZERS. ~Mortimer
by Philthyanimal on May 1, 2009 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, if Rudy is the new Travis does that mean he's the new scapegoat too? I hope not.
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
Trade Rudy!
Listen, I know there are a ton of you out there that feel the way I do, so I wish to try to help Blazers Edge by just making a designated thread for all the Rudy Fernandez hate that will be coming out during the next few days. Let’s try to restrict it to one post, so we don’t annoy those blind Rudy backers. We know that Rudy is the biggest weakpoint on this team, and both the franchise and Rudy himself would be better apart.
All I’m saying with this is, let’s reduce the Fan Post population, and just vent our Rudy feelings here.
Oh, and trade Roy too. A real superstar would have vaporized Artest with his laser vision, and then dominated in the resulting game of 5-on-4.
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
by EngineerScotty on May 1, 2009 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
It's about time someone got a around to hating Rudy
He’s not playing D, takes crazy shots, and frankly I question his citizenship.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
Ok--that was funny
It's spelled "PRZYBILLA."
vanillathrillagorillaprzybilla
by RenoBlazerFan on May 1, 2009 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Get rid of the guy
I cannot take another horrible shot taken without looking at the rim first. UGGHHH him playing against Houston was HORRIBLE
Every time Outlaw fades away in a shot, a kitten dies. Save the Kittens, don't fade!
I hope he addresses his shortcomings. He's beloved and loves his team.
He’s 24. If you remember how dumb you were at 24 and how quickly you learned around this age, give him a break.
There’s a decent chance he’ll address D and rebounding. That’s the best case scenario here, not trading him. Trav, please please please address these problems. They will make the team better and make us love you more.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
C'mon guys,
best guess on the chances he’ll stay with us?
30%?
I hope he goes, he’s a good guy but he’s like a (poor man) Jamal Crawford of the SFs. And there are some people that wanna bring Crawford to the Blazers.
Yeah, Travis Outlaw is to forwards as Jamal Crawford is to guards.
Anyhow, the one guy who vocally supports acquiring Crawford is off of his rocker. Other than the pointless rationale that Crawford would fit well with the Portland Trail Blazers due to being Brandon Roy’s buddy — which is the absolute WRONG reason to acquire a player — he’s got nothing of substance to support his position.
New rule:
Never acquire any one of Brandon Roy’s buddies.
Especially them Seattle ballplayers—mindless chuckers the whole lot. (Webster, Crawford, Brooks, N-Rob, Terry…)
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
by EngineerScotty on May 1, 2009 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Jason Terry is actually a pretty efficient gunning sixth man off of the bench, which is a good ...
role for him with the Dallas Mavericks—especially when he’s finishing games beside Jason Kidd in the backcourt. Terry can play shooting guard on offense and defend point guards on defense, while Kidd can play point guard on offense and defend shooting guards on defense.
For the Mavericks, Mark Cuban and Donnie Nelson just need to make a few mild adjustments this off-season to shore up its ballclub.
1. Draft an offensive-minded swingman in the first round.
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Chase-Budinger-502/
2. Prior to 7/1/2009, trade Matt Carroll to the Milwaukee Bucks for Dan Gadzuric.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=d6834j
3. Prior to 7/1/2009, trade Erick Dampier, Jerry Stackhouse, and $3 million in cash considerations to the Phoenix Suns for Shaquille O’Neal.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cofwst
4. Tender restricted free-agent Ryan Hollins to a one-year, $1,215,726 qualfying offer (i.e., 125% of his previous annual salary).
5. Re-sign Jason Kidd to a one-year, $10 million contract.
6. Re-sign Brandon Bass to a five-year deal with his Early Bird rights.
7. Move Jason Terry into the starting lineup in lieu of Antoine Wright, who’ll move to the backup small forward spot behind Josh Howard.
8. Release Shawne Williams, who’s officially a bust.
8. Sign a few experienced veterans (e.g., Sean Marks, Damon James, & Kevin Ollie) to one-year, minimum-level contracts.
C: Shaquille O’Neal
C: Dan Gadzuric
C: Ryan Hollins
PF: Dirk Nowitzki
PF: Brandon Bass
PF: Sean Marks
SF: Josh Howard
SF: Antoine Wright
SF: Devean George
SG: Jason Terry
SG: Chase Budinger
SG: Damon James
PG: Jason Kidd
PG: Jose Barea
PG: Kevin Ollie
Another move I can see the Dallas Mavericks making this off-season is signing combo ...
guard Raymond Felton — who’s a wonderful perimeter defender, but substandard long-range shooter and occasionally careless with the basketball — to a five-year deal worth the mid-level exception.
If the Mavericks signed Felton, then he’d split time with Jason Terry at shooting guard; in turn, whatever swingman the Dallas Mavericks select in the 2009 NBA Draft — who I expect to be Chase Budinger — would compete with Antoine Wright for playing time behind Josh Howard at small forward, while over-the-hill, washed-up has-been Devean George would be released from the team.
Yes, I'm an advocate of Jamal Crawford, but it doesn't really have anything to do with his friendship with BROY.
I just think he’s a vastly underrated player at this point in his career with a huge offensive skill set who is hungry to win (he’s never even made the playoffs) and has been stuck on bad teams his whole career. He’s 6-5 or 6-6 and can play full-time PG or SG. He’s 29, so he’s not washed up like Andre Miller, but is probably at the point in his career where he’d be willing to sacrifice some individual stats for the team. Bascially, he’s like Blake in that he can shoot the 3 ball, and like Travis in that he is freakish athletic, but also excells at taking it to the rim and can distribute… I kind of formulated this idea from an article from SI that came out a couple weeks ago… http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/phil_taylor/04/21/jamal.crawford/?eref=sircrc
I’d say get rid of (trade) Outlaw with a one of Blake, Sergio, or Bayless, and plug Crawford in as the starting PG.. He’s someone we could probably get for relatively cheap who we can take a chance on due to our depth. Personally, I think Hinrich is gonna be really expensive both trade wise and contract wise. While he’d be an upgrade over Blake, it wouldn’t be by a huge amount.
BTW, AK1984, not sure if it was me you were referring to as “off his rocker”.. but coming from you I take it as a complement .. LOL ;-)
"There goes Brandon Roy... the best there ever was in this game"
by two buck chuck on May 2, 2009 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions
This argument could go on for ever.
The question that we all really should be asking is what is the return that we would get for Travis. It is clear to me that he has reached his top value. He is cheap on our cap room and for that he is a good dollar value to the team. However, he is what he is and after six years the team needs to look and see if this is the level that will WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP or not. When he is on he is on. However that same argument could be use with every player in the league. Remember he is paid to preform. If he is not able to preform to the level that is required than he needs to be moved so that the team can win a championship. That is what the end goal is. KP already has said in the past that he likes this team as is but that some of the players will not be with us when we go on that championship run. I believe that Travis is one of the players that will NOT be receiving a NBA Championship RING with the Blazers. Call it cold harted if you want but the bottom line is WINNING A CHAMPIONSHIP! Is Travis the guy that will get us there?… NO!
Bring back Franz Bread Cards!
I don't know if this is really a true "junk drawer"
but i’ll use it as one anyway
Blazers are marked men.
Goodbye Deke. The NBA will miss Mt. Mutombo.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Days of NBA Lives: Wherein Roy Hibbert tap-dances to Maine
- Grizzlies Valentine’s Day cards are the key to love
- Kevin Love would like the NBA to take the MLB’s approach on All-Star games
- Kobe Bryant fires a few hilarious salvos at Jeremy Lin
- Brandon Jennings states the obvious regarding his 2014 free agency, everyone goes nuts
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
