Canzano on Rubio: Would you or wouldn't you?
by bforsythe on Apr 8, 2009 10:27 AM PDT
120 comments
I know, I know. We finally have something more to look forward to this time of year than the draft. But I just can't help myself. Why not continue to stay young and improve while competing in the playoffs? I'm down.
Below is a link to this mornings article:
Word on the "internets" is that Ricky's hefty contract buyout will scare most NBA teams away from drafting him in our current economic climate.
Sounds like the perfect opportunity for Mr. Allen and Co. to offer one of the lottery-bound teams an offer they can't refuse.
I leave it to you, bedgsters. What would it take to get Rubio in a Blazers uniform? Could we trade RLEC for a draft pick? Further, could we trade RLEC and one or two players for a draft pick? What if we made an arrangement with a team ahead of time? Does that affect what we could offer for him? Would you even be interested? You know where to comment...
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Me?
If possible, I’d give up any combination of RLEC, draft picks, Frye and Bayless. I may be willing to put either Outlaw or Webster into this mix as well. I’d hate to lose either of them but I value Batum more and we will just plain need to clear up some room at the wing. If Frye goes, no way I give up Outlaw though. Love him as a back-up 4 against smaller lineups (aka most of the league).
this has been a message from: "The People's Alliance to give Greg Oden at least a couple of seasons."
by bforsythe on Apr 8, 2009 10:31 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
RLEC???
You can’t trade his contract anymore…
Founder of the "Crash Batumcoot" Movement.
by damir on Apr 8, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Sign and Trade.
Seems weird that you can do that though.
I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden
by mxpx5678 on Apr 8, 2009 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
no need to sign and trade
we’ll have cap space.
LMA: 35 points, 18 rebounds against "OKC." Beaste!
by prezofdeath on Apr 8, 2009 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's assuming we're taking back a hefty contract from someone else
it might not take that…
LMA: 35 points, 18 rebounds against "OKC." Beaste!
by prezofdeath on Apr 8, 2009 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was talking about how RLEC could be involved in the deal.
I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden
by mxpx5678 on Apr 8, 2009 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reaf could be resiged and traded
and I think most posters here have just started called Reaf, RLEC. At this point they are pretty much the same thing in many peoples minds.
While this could happen, I don’t see it happening unless Reaf still wants to play somewhere, because for this to happen he would have to go to the new team, take a physical and stuff and actually try to make the team. That is what the NBA made whats-his-name do for the Dallas J.Kidd trade.
Oh it was Keith VanHorn! Good job rusty memory!
by usmcr3049 on Apr 8, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
RLEC has basically expired
Why would I acquire a non-player trading the hottest international prospect or any other rookie of quality?
The premise makes no sense!
The way this did make sense is if a non-playoff team had quality players with hefty contracts, and maybe a pick they did not value. The time for anything involving RLEC has past.
by LaoTzu on Apr 8, 2009 7:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read my words...
I said I didn’t know if we could. I’m not going to sit here and pretend to be as savvy about this stuff as Tom Penn like you obviously are. (Or aren’t – thanks mxpx5678).
this has been a message from: "The People's Alliance to give Greg Oden at least a couple of seasons."
by bforsythe on Apr 8, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
RLEC - Reaf LaFrentz's EXPIRING Contract
there is no way to Trade him as the trade deadline has passed.
Signing and trading could and would not happen as he’s not playing. The value to his contract comes from the Open Cap Space it will provide at the end of this year.
OH! HE JAMS WITH TWO HANDS! You gotta be kidding me!
Now don't get too excited Bayless, We'll let MB do that -
No get excited! TELL EM WHERE YOU'RE FROM!
by Portland89 on Apr 8, 2009 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can sign and trade players who aren't playing
RLEC would be larger than our cap space, so it is possible that we would need to do a sign&trade to make a deal work.
by trk on Apr 8, 2009 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cannot trade him this year -- trade deadline right???
Cannot sign and trade him as he has no value as he is broken down and can’t play.
Let dead horses lay.
by LaoTzu on Apr 8, 2009 7:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would not be the first time that a retired player has been sign&traded
The value of a resigned RLEC would be if the Blazers need to send out a large contract in a trade for salary matching purposes (if they are taking in more salary than they can absorb with the cap space). Since RLEC is coming off a big contract, he would not become a BYC player if he were resigned which makes it a lot easier to trade him. RLEC is broken down and can’t play, but he would only have one year on his new contract. If another team has a broken down player with a similarly large contract that lasts 3-4 years instead of only one, they would be very happy to exchange their long-term contract for Reaf’s new expiring and might be willing to throw in a good lottery pick to get the Blazers to take on their bad contract.
by trk on Apr 8, 2009 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's actually no reason to do this for Raef this year
because we’re under the cap. It’s a zero-sum game. If we re-sign Raef to trade him, say for $2 million, then we can only accept an extra $5 million in salary above what we send out because Raef’s contract eats into our cap space. If we don’t resign him, we can just accept $7 million in extra salary, and so the other team can dump the $2 million without having to pay Raef for a year.
The reason it was necessary for McKie and KVH is that the L*kers and Mavs were over the cap, and so they needed the extra salary to match their incoming salary. No such reason in our case.
by Royster on Apr 8, 2009 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Raef made $12,722,500 this year
It makes no sense to re-sign Raef for less than $7 million if we have $7 million in cap space. There might be situations where it would make sense to resign him for $13 million though, because then we could take on a contract that is much too big to be absorbed by our $7 million cap space.
For instance, lets say the Wizards win the lottery and are willing to give us the #1 pick if we are willing to take Gilbert Arenas’ monster contract off their hands. Arenas + #1 for nothing doesn’t work because the cap space isn’t large enough. Arenas + #1 for a resigned RLEC could end up working though.
by trk on Apr 8, 2009 11:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course
but the odds of that kind of deal happening are slim to none. Simply put, almost no team in panic luxury tax mode needs to cut more than $7-8 million off their salary, because if they had to, they’d be planning on being in the luxury tax anyways. Also, guys of the caliber to be on that kind of deal (except maybe T-Mac) don’t get traded for a pick and cap relief alone. Even if it just meant throwing in Bayless, that’d give us about $9 million in total salary to send out, which, given the 125% rule, would be enough to snag a $12 million player, which would be about the max salary level of player I could see being involved in a deal.
Besides, every other “retired” player deal has been relatively small, of the $3-5 million contract level. It’s hard to imagine a team willing to pay $15+ million for one year simply to be rid of the salary obligations of some star, at least any star that we’d want (obviously Z-Bo is the exception). I mean, unless we REALLY want Andrei Kirilenko, and Utah is willing to flat out give him away, I just don’t se it happening.
Still, you’re right that there could technically be a use for it, so props there, my bad from above.
by Royster on Apr 9, 2009 12:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Wizards would be very happy to give up Arenas or Jamison for cap relief alone at this point
In a RLEC for Arenas trade, even if the Wizards had to take back RLEC and pay him $$ for a year they would still end up saving around $80 million in salary. Add in luxury tax and that could end up being $160 million saved for them. That is a huge amount of money in this current economy. I think the Wizards would be willing to give up almost anything they have to any team that is willing to take that contract off their hands. That is why I suggested Arenas + Griffin/Rubio for RLEC trade. Actually, that is probably still too favorable to the Wizards and I think they would need to find a way to add more value to their side (maybe more future picks?).
by trk on Apr 9, 2009 12:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please tell me you're joking
While I agree Arenas has an awful contract, when healthy, the guy can ball. I mean, in like his first game back after over a year off, basically, he racks up 15 assists.
Not too mention that Abe Pollin isn’t exactly George Shinn, and the Wizards would never sell another ticket after delivering that big middle finger to their fans. We joke about the Gasol trade being a salary dump, but that’s jArenas + Rubio/Griffin for Raef not being enough is just a joke.
by Royster on Apr 9, 2009 6:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has only played 15 games in the last 2 years
And during that time he has had 3 surgeries on the same knee. There is no guarantee that he will regain his full pre-injury explosiveness, and I have heard that there is a good chance that he could reinjure that knee again too. He is good when healthy, but his health is very questionable and he has the type of contract that should only be given to MVP caliber players.
by trk on Apr 9, 2009 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get that they'd want out of his contract
but I don’t get that they’re willing to gamble right now that he’ll never be healthy again. Grant Hill played 18 games in his first two years for the Magic, and they kept him for the length of his contract, and he managed to play a couple solid (although overpaid) years for them later on.
What is ridiculous to me is the idea that, not only would they gamble that he’s never going to be healthy again by dumping him (not completely out of the question), but that they’d also give up an elite prospect to do that, and then even that wouldn’t be enough. This is without even taking into account the fact that he’s a huge ticket draw.
by Royster on Apr 9, 2009 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love your post bforsythe because you shockingly didn't stick Sergio in the trade mix
like so many others would do. I don’t want to give up Outlaw or Webster at this time. Too much upside and rising talent at that and both seem part of the group and know what they have here. We don’t really have much to trade then other than that so that leaves Bayless. I love him and I want him on our team but he’s hurting on this team. He would be as highly thought of as Westbrook and others if he were playing 30 minutes per for a sub 500 team. For Rubio though, I let him go. Frye is gone but not likely tradeable unless sign and trade. It will have to be a team that wants Bayless, cash and lots of low first round and 2nd round picks that will draft Rubio and send him to us. I dont’ think it’s enough to get it done. Maybe if he falls below top five, maybe even top ten.
Players I can bare to part with…
Roy, Rudy, Sergio, Webster, Outlaw, Batum, LA, Prizbilla, Oden.
I can live without Blake but I also love him and think he does very well with this team and he compliments Roy so very well. I don’t think he’s going anywhere.
Shavlik and Ruff are likely gone.
by Blazersaurus on Apr 8, 2009 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Idea
But we don’t really have the ability to draft him. I don’t think a team is going to take on a bunch of our leftover players for an elite PG prospect.
I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden
by mxpx5678 on Apr 8, 2009 10:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Washington might
There are a lot of rumors out there that they will trade there lottery pick with a bad contract attached to it to get under the luxury tax next year. If they do decide to do that I say that we jump all over it.
by ggassen85 on Apr 8, 2009 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right.
Washington is intereted. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/151728-the-washington-wizards-select-rick-rubio
Recently as I had been surfing the web I read a lot about how teams wouldn’t be able to afford the buyout. But I;m reading a different tune today. Looks like NBA teams can only contribute $500,000 towards the buyout…leaving the player to foot the rest of the bill. I didn’t realize that.
this has been a message from: "The People's Alliance to give Greg Oden at least a couple of seasons."
by bforsythe on Apr 8, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Paul Allen should pay Rubio a 5 million dollar endorsement deal obviously...
To you know.. endorse umm… Charter? wink wink
by Zaig on Apr 8, 2009 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As that sort of deal worked out so well for the Timberwolves...
That would kill most of KP’s mojo not geting to work on draft day since we’d lose our picks for years to come.
by NWfan on Apr 8, 2009 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
are you saying
the Joe Smith debacle was related so a side endorsement? I have never heard that angle. I thought it was McHale negotiating with Smith before July 1, but maybe I am wrong.
I have thought about the “What if an owner sponsors an athlete on their own team and thus pays them outside of the league structure.” scenario before, but I am not sure if it has been done or if there is something in the CBA disallowing it.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
by jonestr on Apr 8, 2009 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joe Smith
had nothing to do with side endorsements, it was about the T-Wolves promising him a larger deal in the future to take a lesser one at the time (because of bird rights). Basically, they could only offer him like a $2 million deal to stay under the cap, even though he was worth more, but basically at the time they agreed (in writing, I think), that after that deal was up they’d re-sign him to a $30 million deal or something. This was back when Bird Rights triggered after only one year.
So, rather than sign him to a $32 million 4 year deal as an FA, which would have violated the cap, they got around the rules by structuring it as two separate deals, which was a definite violation.
As far as the sponsorship situation, it’s pretty clear that this is a no go, otherwise rich owners could just set up shell companies and hire players as “endorsers”. Any kind of conflict of interest there would be monitored (and punished) the same as the Joe Smith fiasco.
by Royster on Apr 8, 2009 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would
need to see something specific that says having an independent company that the owner has an interest in sponsoring a player on that owners team violates the CBA. I get that it violates the spirit, but I would be surprised if Stern could directly punish an owner for this. He could probably make life tough on them for violating the spirit of the CBA, but I would be surprised if the CBA was that far reaching.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
by jonestr on Apr 8, 2009 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know
That the economic climate is different now but when has a team ever traded out of a high draft pick and gotten nothing in return? (I am basing this on the fact that we wont trade any of the following, Roy, LMA, Oden, Batum)
I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden
by mxpx5678 on Apr 8, 2009 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Chicago?
They traded the 2nd draft pick (LMA) and ended up getting hardly anything in return. I would take Outlaw and Bayless over Tyrus Thomas any day.
this has been a message from: "The People's Alliance to give Greg Oden at least a couple of seasons."
by bforsythe on Apr 8, 2009 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, the #4 pick
is hardly “nothing”, especially given how weak overall that draft was, which lessens the value of the #2 pick. Besides, LaMarcus was anything but a can’t miss prospect at that point, especially considering he was coming off getting eaten alive by Tyrus and Big Baby in the tourney.
by Royster on Apr 8, 2009 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Etan Thomas?
First of all. if Rubio somehow comes onboard, Segio will be gone. This should be a no-brainer
The Blazers need a big guy to backup PF/C. Etan Thomas isn’t great but they don’t really need a “great” player, they just need a banger who can fill in when needed.
I’m not sure how all the sign-and-trade rules work. I just know KP has 2nd round draft choices to burn, a trade exception in his pocket and PA’s money to spend. If the Wiz want to dump some salary, they should be looking Portland’s way
by two4larue on Apr 8, 2009 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even if teams don't want the buyout
why wouldn’t they draft him for his trade value? I’m no expert on this years draft class, completely ignorant actually, but from the buzz and it seems like you need the number 1 pick to be sure of landing him, and trading a big pile of talent for a draft pick that might not get him seems like a bad gamble.
by raoulduke on Apr 8, 2009 10:59 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He won't go 1
All of the teams likely to get the number 1 pick want a real inside threat. Griffin should go 1, although I’d big on Thabeet!
by Zaig on Apr 8, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely.
this has been a message from: "The People's Alliance to give Greg Oden at least a couple of seasons."
by bforsythe on Apr 8, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
BUT even though...
…there are on-going negotiations to lower Rubio’s buyout, NBA teams may still be wary of drafting him and being left empty handed if he decided to return to the ACB league. Of course, the fact that he is leading the ACB is both steals and assists this season might make that an easier gamble for some NBA execs to take.
http://nbaroundtable.wordpress.com/2009/02/24/rubios-contractbuyout/
this has been a message from: "The People's Alliance to give Greg Oden at least a couple of seasons."
by bforsythe on Apr 8, 2009 11:11 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
6 million Euros to buy out a lousy 160,000/year is total BS
That’s a terrible deal. If DKV holds hard on this, they’ll likely start losing any player with potential and a dream of playing in the NBA.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Apr 8, 2009 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Over at RealGM...
…I’ve asked severa washington fans about trades to guage their interest.
Since we’re banned form trade talk for now, I won’t ellaborate, but suffice to say that while not a piece of cake, there were several workable deals.
by JordanLeDoux on Apr 8, 2009 11:22 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
When you wanna save money
And you somehow think that their big 3 will EVER stay healthy for a season… good things can happen for us.
by Zaig on Apr 8, 2009 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
…it was also about giving them a better deal than they could work with other teams that have cap space (Sacramento, OKC, Detroit, etc.)
I will say that no matter the combination of players it always included:
-A draft pick
-A rotation player
-A prospect
And we always received back:
-Rubio
-Songaila
-Stevenson (who would probably be waived)
The thing I like about Rubio is that he has handles at least as good as any PG on our team, but he plays very good DEFENSE, especially for the position he plays. He has lots of length and athleticism as well. Absolutely worth considering and investigating IMO.
by JordanLeDoux on Apr 8, 2009 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah we need a good defensive PG
Momma.....der go dat man
by AllHailRoy on Apr 8, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I voted for "no matter the cost"
Assuming that implied obvious thing such as keeping Roy/LMA/Oden etc. But I’d gladly get rid of our 1st rounder, a second rounder, Outlaw, Bayless/Sergio for Rubio and trash that we could drop.
They like Outlaw to play SF and PF off the bench and to start with Butler/Jamison get injured as per usual.
They like a backup prospect PG of course.
They still get some picks.
They save cash.
This relies on a million other issues. Rubio coming over, buyout issues, wizards getting a high enough pick, etc.
by Zaig on Apr 8, 2009 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
defence?
from watching him play in the olympics that would be my major concern. Sure he picked up some steals, but as Cananzo mentioned, he gambles a lot. I’m worried about teams running ISO’s against him. It didn’t show up to much in international ball because of the constant use of zone defence, but he is going to get punished in the NBA by stronger guards, at least for his first few years.
"Great Oden's raven!" - Ron Burgandy
by danevan on Apr 8, 2009 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rubio has a lot of potential as a defensive player
He has good size for a point guard, and he hes long arms relative to his height. He also is really good at anticipating what the offense is going to do and has good reflexes. He does gamble for steals a lot, but I think that is mostly due to the team he plays on. Aíto García Reneses, who coached DKV Joventut before this year and was also the coach of the national team at the Olympics, is Spain’s equivalent of Mike D’Antoni. His teams are fast-break oriented and his defensive philosophy it to create as many steals as possible so that there are more fast break opportunities.
by trk on Apr 8, 2009 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's a very good defender
Remember, he was playing against All-World players in the Olympics.
He’d be at least as good as any PG we have, with better handles than any PG we have.
by JordanLeDoux on Apr 8, 2009 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely
I think he will be a great point guard and I would love to have in here, but I don’t think people can expect to be a defensive stopper right out of the gates. It is going to take him time to build an NBA body to handle stronger NBA players, he is only 18 remember, and it is going to show.
"Great Oden's raven!" - Ron Burgandy
by danevan on Apr 8, 2009 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would assume they ask for Rudy. Would KP give up Rudy to get Rubio? I have my doubts.
by Norsktroll on Apr 8, 2009 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Several of the Washington fans actually wanted Rudy, Outlaw, and two picks...
… I told them where to stick it.
They came back with something more reasonable. Again, mortorium on trade talk and all. :)
by JordanLeDoux on Apr 8, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL at the deal
We want Rubio, but not at the expense of our entire bench.
by Zaig on Apr 8, 2009 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's my theoretical draft day deal involving the Porltand Trail Blazers and the Washington Wizards.
FROM PORTLAND & TO WASHINGTON
PG Steve Blake ($4,250,000)
F Travis Outlaw ($4,000,000)
G Jerryd Bayless ($1,993,560)
FROM WASHINGTON & TO PORTLAND
PF Darius Songaila ($4,235,000)
SG DeShawn Stevenson ($3,616,072)
F Dominic McGuire ($711,517)
PG Ricky Rubio (Draft Rights)
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=d7nly8
For the Trail Blazers, Ricky Rubio would be the team’s long-term solution at point guard, Darius Songaila would be LaMarcus Aldridge’s backup at power forward, and DeShawn Stevenson would ride the pine as the team’s third-string shooting guard. Dominic McGuire would be waived after the trade — since he’s got a non-guaranteed salary for next season — as there’d be no use for an offensively inept player like him in Portland.
For the Wizards, Travis Outlaw would be the ballclub’s sixth man as Antawn Jamison and Caron Butler’s backup at the forward positions, Jerryd Bayless would join up with Javaris Crittenton to form the team’s second unit backcourt, and Steve Blake — who’s got a non-guaranteed salary for next season — would be wavied for financial reasons. Blake, moreover, could subsequently sign with the Trail Blazers to a one-year deal worth the mid-level exception. Similarly, McGuire could conceivably return to the Wizards via the bi-annual exception.
by AK1984 on Apr 8, 2009 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That sounds totally reasonable.
Except, what do you do with Sergio?
When I came here (in 2004), guys like Nick (Van Exel) and Damon, they were a breath of fresh air for me,'' Przybilla
by Nick Van Excellent on Apr 8, 2009 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
nevermind.
I’m not sure you want both your point guards being terrible three point shooters. Blake has to stay.
When I came here (in 2004), guys like Nick (Van Exel) and Damon, they were a breath of fresh air for me,'' Przybilla
by Nick Van Excellent on Apr 8, 2009 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, the deal would be contigent on a backroom agreement that the Washington Wizards ...
waive Steve Blake — who, in due part to having a non-guaranteed salary for next season if cut by 6/30/2009, would likely be released by the money-conscious Abe Pollin — and, in turn, he’s up for signing with the Portland Trail Blazers to a one-year contract via the mid-level exception.
by AK1984 on Apr 8, 2009 11:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or we could just not inclide Blake in the trade
The Blazers will be enough under the cap that they would not need to match salaries.
by trk on Apr 8, 2009 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope, the Portland Trail Blazers will not be under the salary cap before at least ...
7/1/2009. Besides, I’d be more inclined to not renounce Raef LaFrentz’s Bird rights — which’d leave the team with a gigantic cap hold — and potentially use him in a sign-‘n’-trade deal to acquire an asset such as, oh, Kirk Hinrich.
by AK1984 on Apr 8, 2009 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think waiting until 7/1/09 is a big deal
Since we can’t make a trade this season anyway.
by trk on Apr 8, 2009 11:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 2009 NBA Draft, however, is held on 6/25/2009, so it's kind of a big deal.
by AK1984 on Apr 9, 2009 12:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can't you agree to deals on draft day that don't become offical until July 1st?
by trk on Apr 9, 2009 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope, here's some of the problems with that.
1. Steve Blake’s salary for the 2009-2010 becomes fully guarnateed if he’s not waived by 6/30/2009.
2. The NBA has a moratoriumfrom 7/1/2009 through 7/7/2009, which is when it does the financial stuff necessary to determine the salary cap and luxury tax for the upcoming season.
3. An organization’s plans can change drastically in a two week period.
by AK1984 on Apr 9, 2009 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In all likelihood, Sergio Rodriguez would stick around one more year and once again do the ...
old song-‘n’-dance routine with Nate McMillan. Obviously, though, Rodriguez wouldn’t be too overly pleased with being the third-string point guard.
by AK1984 on Apr 8, 2009 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would DeShawn be bought out?
I can’t see him being a good fit mentally.
When I came here (in 2004), guys like Nick (Van Exel) and Damon, they were a breath of fresh air for me,'' Przybilla
by Nick Van Excellent on Apr 8, 2009 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
One option would be to flip DeShawn Stevenson to a team that could use his thuggish ...
intensity on defense — such as the Denver Nuggets, which could swap out the remains of Steven Hunter’s broken down body for him — otherwise, that’d be something the franchise would need to deal with over the off-season.
by AK1984 on Apr 8, 2009 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would be surprised if the Wizards were willing to give up a prospect like Rubio that cheaply
It seems like teams usually put a very high value on players who are drafted first or second overall.
by trk on Apr 8, 2009 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There'd be massive financial-based motives behind making a trade such as this hypothetical.
Fiscal prudence is a major factor for some NBA franchises nowadays—there’s no doubt about it.
by AK1984 on Apr 8, 2009 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The contracts of the Wizards players involved aren't that big
Dominic McGuire is expiring and makes less than $1 million, while Songaila and Stevenson are 2 year ~$4 million players. If Arenas or Jamison were involved that would be one thing, but Songaila and Stevenson have shorter contracts and make chump change in comparison.
by trk on Apr 8, 2009 11:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Washington Wizards reportedly want to still build around Gilbert Arenas, Caron ...
Butler, and Antawn Jamison, while cutting some of the fat on its payroll by dumping dudes on the roster who are overpaid. On the Wizards, there are four guys who fit that description (i.e., Etan Thomas, Mike James, Darius Songaila, and DeShawn Stevenson).
Yet, Thomas and James have contracts that expire after the 2009-2010 season, while both Songaila and Stevenson are signed through the 2010-2011 season. Thus, trading either Songaila and/or Stevenson in lieu of Thomas and/or James would provide more long-term financial flexibility.
by AK1984 on Apr 9, 2009 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We traded up to get Aldridge, Roy, Batum, and Bayless.
It would only work if Sacramento doesn’t think Rubio will come over right away, in which case there aren’t a lot of prospects better than what we can offer them.
When I came here (in 2004), guys like Nick (Van Exel) and Damon, they were a breath of fresh air for me,'' Przybilla
by Nick Van Excellent on Apr 8, 2009 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Out of those 4, Aldridge was the only top 2 pick
Picks #6 (Roy), #11 (Bayless), and #25 (Batum), are all worth a lot less than a #2 pick. Even all three picks together probably would not have as much value as a top 2 pick. The only reason we were able to get Aldridge is because we had the #4 pick to start out with and in that draft the #2-#5 prospects were all considered to be about equal (a lot of people though Aldridge would have still been there at the #4 pick if we hadn’t traded up). The situation this year is different: there is a clear #1 and #2 in the draft (Griffin and Rubio), and any team with a top 2 pick is going to expect to get significant value back if they trade down to a lower pick.
by trk on Apr 9, 2009 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rubio is a clear #2 pick by default.
If the Wizards land the second pick I can’t imagine them wanting to draft another PG. That leaves them sifting through a big pile of mediocre prospects. I think Portland can offer them a package better than a guy like Jordan Hill.
When I came here (in 2004), guys like Nick (Van Exel) and Damon, they were a breath of fresh air for me,'' Przybilla
by Nick Van Excellent on Apr 9, 2009 12:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They could just go with Thabeet
They could use a center who can run. He’s pretty raw right now, but his athletism impressed me for a guy his size.
by Zaig on Apr 9, 2009 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I donb't think so.
They already have Haywood and McGee. Both of which I think are better center prospects.
When I came here (in 2004), guys like Nick (Van Exel) and Damon, they were a breath of fresh air for me,'' Przybilla
by Nick Van Excellent on Apr 9, 2009 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rubio is great, but I doubt Portland gets him.
A lot of things would have to shake Portland’s way to get Rubio. Even if teams near the top of the draft board don’t want to sign him for his buyout costs and other issues, someone near there is still going to do so, because they know they can get more in return by trading him than they could by just making their draft pick. His trade value is going to be quite high because of his youth, decent size and well-rounded skill set.
That being said, if Portland could make a good deal to get him that didn’t hurt the team’s core, I’d be pretty freaking ecstatic. The starting lineup of the future would be set:
PG: Rubio
SG: Roy
SF: Batum
PF: Aldridge
C: Oden
is that scary, or what?
Yes! Yes! In the face!
by LeafHawk on Apr 8, 2009 11:56 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Poor LMA
4 Olympians (possibly) and him.
by Zaig on Apr 8, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was on the team playing against them in training, it was never in discussion that he would replace Bosh/Boozer/etc.
So he is kind of on the “extended list” of USA Basketball. But so were Bayless and a number of really odd names.
by Norsktroll on Apr 8, 2009 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I suppose it's possible
That Roy/LMA/Oden all make the 2012 or 2016 team, but I seriously doubt it happens. Unless maybe Portland wins 2-3 titles and they think we are worthy of having 3 Olympians.
by Zaig on Apr 8, 2009 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and the funny thing is
LMA’s the perfect Olympic team center. He can hit from outside, and cover the other team’s center’s who can also hit from outside.
With Kobe and LeBron and Wade all leaning heavily towards reupping for 2012, adding Roy as a 4th wing player is a bit more of a longshot. and USAB love the way Melo fits as a 3/4 as well in international ball. In a lot of ways, you could say LMA has a better chance in ’12 than Roy does.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Apr 9, 2009 12:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm down with drafting him and bringing him over when he's ready
Most likely when he’s 25 or so.
This signature intentionally left blank.
by tominhawaii on Apr 8, 2009 12:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Rudy & Ricky are great friends. He would fit.
What does a Blazer do? He blazes! Where? Up the trail. Why? Portland dunks the ball! Believe RubiOden will happen.
by by on Apr 8, 2009 12:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
is that a shirt of Ricky and Rudy?!?!
the RR???
where do you get those shirts?!
Rip City Baby...People have no idea what is coming.
Follow my twitter www.twitter.com/PDXBlazersFTW, @PDXBlazersFTW. Lots of random Blazer Posts from links I find around the blogosphere.
by lanepete on Apr 8, 2009 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
coincidentally
the sound Bayless makes – Elgin
Blazers win BDL 2 on 2 tournament!
Skeets: i’ll close it down now … congrats. you bastards
by 22baylor on Apr 8, 2009 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh, of course.
I’d love to have him, but he’s a top three pick.
draft dejuan blair
by Cablinasian on Apr 8, 2009 12:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Here is the list of who I would not give up to get Ricky...
LMA
BRoy
Oden
Przybilla
Batum
Blake
Anyone else and as much SPAM as it takes KP!!!!!!!!!!
Blazer's Edge Ambassador to The Dream Shake Blog
LMA - Putting the POWER in POWER FORWARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LMA Rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I <3 LMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
38:55 Mins, 14-24 FGs, 7-8 FTs, +30, 7 Off, 18 Rebs, 2 Ast, 1 Stl, 1 Blk, 35 Points!!!! LMA vs OKC 4-3-09
by LaMarvelous on Apr 8, 2009 12:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Blake is big
I’d say throw out Sergio/Bayless both. Start Blake for 1 year with Rubio getting good minutes off the bench. Then Rubio’s time to shine.
(Basically, what people said we should do with Bayless, only Rubio is… you know… amazing.)
by Zaig on Apr 8, 2009 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like what Steve Blake provides to the Portland Trail Blazers, but his non-guaranteed contract will ...
most likely be a must-have for the other team in any deal involving Ricky Rubio’s draft rights—especially the Washington Wizards.
by AK1984 on Apr 8, 2009 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather see a veteran point guard over the baby-faced wonderboy.
It's spelled "PRZYBILLA."
vanillathrillagorillaprzybilla
by RenoBlazerFan on Apr 8, 2009 1:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
with a talent like Rubio
I would be perfectly okay with going with the younger guy.
draft dejuan blair
by Cablinasian on Apr 8, 2009 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I have heard lots of buzz about him, but honestly haven't seen much of him, outside of Olympics.
Is he really good enough to make an impact playin with the big boys? Better than a proven veteran? How tall is he?
It's spelled "PRZYBILLA."
vanillathrillagorillaprzybilla
by RenoBlazerFan on Apr 8, 2009 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
6'4''
The thing is that he is a great defender and passer. The Blazers need both of those skills badly.
draft dejuan blair
by Cablinasian on Apr 8, 2009 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like the idea
of a 6’4" point guard playing for Nate. – Elgin
Blazers win BDL 2 on 2 tournament!
Skeets: i’ll close it down now … congrats. you bastards
by 22baylor on Apr 8, 2009 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's in many ways a Nate+
type of player. More offense, but a big, defensive minded PG, Nate would be over the moon for Ricky
I believe in Greg Oden. To all the haters - get down with the program or stay off the wagon for all time. #52
by blazeraddict on Apr 8, 2009 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Need to wait for the lottery. If hypothetically KP wanted to acquire a high draft pick, the biggest obstacle I can see are the Kings
If they land on 1 or 2 in the lottery, the rest of the league can say goodbye to Rubio. They have no big need for Griffin, but a lot of need for the point guard spot. And KP already maneuvered around them last year when they hoped to land Bayless/Augustin.
Washington might be willing to trade their pick if a team takes a mediocre contract off their hands. Same with the Wolves, although they would likely look to trade not their best but one of their later first round picks (they will have 2 or 3). OKC would take a big man, ideally Griffin or maybe Thabeet/Davis. The Clippers are hard to read, they might go with a wing player like Hardin or DeRozan since they have no real need at PG or C/PF.
If teams don’t go according to need but best player available, Rubio shouldn’t last past #2 anyway.
by Norsktroll on Apr 8, 2009 1:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
but the Kings love Bayless. They need another scorer on that team more than they need a good distributor. Bayless wouldn’t have to defer to anyone except Kevin Martin and would would add strength and athleticism to their back court that Rubio would not. The Kings can afford to wait for Bayless to develop in a way that the Blazers can’t.
The Blazers are in a funny position because they don’t need a scoring PG. They need a distributor who can throw nice entry passes to Oden and LMA while playing good defense and making good decisions. Bayless doesn’t really fit that mold and would probably be better off playing like he did in summer league. Unfortunately, driving to the basket 15 times a game is not going to happen on the Blazers.
When I came here (in 2004), guys like Nick (Van Exel) and Damon, they were a breath of fresh air for me,'' Przybilla
by Nick Van Excellent on Apr 8, 2009 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely no way
that the Kings, or any other NBA team right now would rather have Bayless than Rubio.
by Royster on Apr 8, 2009 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I was the Kings I would rather have Bayless than Rubio.
1.) There is a good chance that if you draft Rubio he won’t come over right away. Especially if the Kings draft him.
2.) Rubio probably won’t help the Kings much much anyway. He’s a badass role player but I don’t see him as a super scoring star, at least right now.
3.) Bayless can do what he did in summer league if he plays for the Kings. Clearly Bayless can put points on your face. I also think he fits in the back court with Martin better than Rubio would. The Kings could use some bulk and athleticism.
4.) It would probably take more than Bayless, but I doubt much more. Maybe Bayless, cash, and a couple picks? If the Kings or Wizards sent back a bad contract it would be a fair deal for both teams.
When I came here (in 2004), guys like Nick (Van Exel) and Damon, they were a breath of fresh air for me,'' Przybilla
by Nick Van Excellent on Apr 8, 2009 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Regardless of whether he comes over this year or not
It’s ridiculous to say that Bayless could do for the Kings what he did in Summer league. In summer league, he was basically the first, second, and third options. For the Kings, that role is filled by Kevin Martin, one of the most efficient players in the league (a polar opposite of Bayless right now). The Kings issues don’t so much need scorers as they need a coherent offense. Martin is one of the best scorers in the league, Hawes is more of a scorer than anything else, the only thing Beno is halfway decent at is creating offense for himself, Garcia is a decent complementary scorer, Greene pretty much only exists as a scoring prospect, Nocioni is a decent third option they just have no one facilitating an offense to get those guys decent shots.
To me, that doesn’t scream out that they’re desperate for Bayless. They desperately need defenders and a facilitator. As I quote from StR (from a post debating whether to take Rubio/Griffin at no. 1):
I think Rubio’s passing and court vision are desperately needed on this team.
Given that Rubio would have been drafted ahead of three guards that went ahead of Bayless last year, I don’t buy that Bayless + late first rounder = Rubio. Especially when the Kings don’t have any pressing need to cut salary (not close to the lux tax next year).
by Royster on Apr 8, 2009 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bayless could do for the Kings what he did in Summer league.
He won’t score 30 points a game, but he will get to the basket in a way that Martin can’t. K-Mart scores 18% of his points around the basket compared to Bayless scoring 48% of his points around the basket. It’s not ridiculous to imagine Bayless scoring an efficient 15+ a game on a bad team like the Kings, especially in his second year.
It doesn’t work the same way on the Blazers because Roy can already gets to the rim. (38% of all points in the paint) Bayless pretty much duplicates the strongest points in Roy’s game minus playmaking. What the Blazers need is a good role player not a superstar. In other words, a guy like Gilbert Arenas and Monte Ellis might be fantastic on the Kings, but would probably just be superfluous offense on the Blazers.
If I’m the Kings I’m going to bet on Bayless being a superstar before Rubio. Sure, he won’t sell as many tickets because he’s not Caucasian, but I think Bayless would be terrific on a team where he gets shots.
When I came here (in 2004), guys like Nick (Van Exel) and Damon, they were a breath of fresh air for me,'' Przybilla
by Nick Van Excellent on Apr 8, 2009 7:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bayless doesn't score 48% of his points around the basket
assuming you’re using the 82games.com (with the hilarious misspelling of his first name, I might add), he takes 48% shots around the basket, where he gets blocked every 1 in 5 shots. And the only reason this stat is so skewed is that he hasn’t taken a jump shot in two months. This makes him predictable, and is a huge reason why he’s been in a huge slump.
The point isn’t where his shots come from, but how efficient he is. Just because K-Mart’s “inside attempts” are such a low percentage doesn’t mean he’s not taking it in, he’s just one of the absolute best players in the league at drawing fouls, which is the main advantage of taking it to the rim. Even without in the rest of the guys on his team (note nearly every single one of them being a scorer plus McCants, who I forgot before, like I outlined above), you simply don’t want to take touches away from one of the most ridiculously efficient guys in the game. You want to help his game out so that he gets the ball in better situations and can continue to convert at a 60+ TS%.
If we can ignore the common meme of “Bayless would be ROY if only he were on a bad team” and actually look at the Kings roster rather than just assume they’re generic bad team X, it’s pretty clear that Rubio fits their needs perfectly. Spend 20 seconds over at SactownRoyalty checking out what people who watch that team on a regular basis think. It’s basically a consensus that Rubio could not be a better fit.
And if the Kings were betting Bayless is going to become a star before Rubio, they’d probably be the only ones. I’d venture that Rubio would have gone in the top 5 if he’d been eligible last year, I don’t get what Bayless has done this year that would have changed any team’s mind.
by Royster on Apr 8, 2009 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
SactownRoyalty?
Yeah, they were also deliriously excited about getting Bayless last year. Anyway, I don’t trust fans when it comes to evaluating rookie prospects, especially when that rookie is a charismatic Caucasian from Europe.
I don’t get what Bayless has done this year that would have changed any team’s mind.
What has Rubio done? Both Bayless and Rubio’s value is wrapped up in potential. At the very least Bayless has shown glimpses of what he can do in the NBA. He’s already an above average PG defensively, which is rare. Who knows how Rubio’s game translates to the NBA. I think Rubio will be fine, but it’s still a big risk either way.
I think the talent level between Bayless and Rubio is closer than most people think. Couple that with the fact that the Maloofs are desperate to save money and think they might be willing to make a deal.
When I came here (in 2004), guys like Nick (Van Exel) and Damon, they were a breath of fresh air for me,'' Przybilla
by Nick Van Excellent on Apr 8, 2009 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well,
What has Rubio Done?
Since the draft he’s led the second best league in the world in assists/minute, started in an olympic final for a Spain team that nearly upset the best US team in recent memory, which featured the two best PGs in the league today, and was named the best European basketball player by an Italian magazine.
I’d say his Olympic experience trumps the glimpses that Bayless has shown for us this year, given that Bayless’s best game was largely the result of getting to play against Antonio Daniels’ corpse, while Rubio was playing against the best PGs in the NBA.
Arguing the Bayless is an above average defender right now is pretty specious, especially when Rubio is considered possibly the best defensive PG prospect since Rondo. JBay right now is a fouling machine, who’s an okay one on one defender at times, and awful at team defense. He has potential there, but he’s not “already above average defensively”.
As to StR’s Bayless obsession last year, there’s kind of a huge difference between desperately hoping a guy falls to you at 12 vs. desperately hoping for a guy as the no. 2 pick. Going into the 2007 lottery, I was desperately hoping for one of Green/Brewer/Conley. I still wanted Oden or Durant over any of those guys.
Besides, none of this addresses the crux of my argument, which is that the Kings don’t need a player like Bayless. They need someone to run an offense and create for others. More than anything they need a real PG to get their scorers easier shots and provide some perimeter defense, Rubio’s two greatest strengths. They don’t need a (currently) low efficiency guy to come in and dominate the ball and take away shots from K-Mart, Hawes, Garcia and Thompson.
by Royster on Apr 8, 2009 11:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d say his Olympic experience trumps the glimpses that Bayless has shown for us this year
I don’t know, maybe. He certainly looked good, but Rudy also looked spectacular. It’s hard to judge a Euro prospect until they play actual games in the NBA.
They need someone to run an offense and create for others.
Create for who? Are you being serious about “taking shots away” from Hawes, Garcie, and Thomson? Good Lord that’s depressing for Sacramento.
Besides Martin I don’t know if you can really “take shots away” from anyone on that roster. Give him minutes and I’m willing to bet Bayless would be the second best player on that team. I guess that’s not much of an argument though considering Rubio would also probably be the second best player on their roster.
I give Rubio a better shot to succeed on the Blazers roster. He’s more prepared to run an offense and gives us the perimeter defense we need. I don’t think his ceiling is as high as Bayless, but that doesn’t matter as much for the Blazers since we’ve already moved past the rebuilding stage.
The Kings don’t need role players. They already have 13 of those.
When I came here (in 2004), guys like Nick (Van Exel) and Damon, they were a breath of fresh air for me,'' Przybilla
by Nick Van Excellent on Apr 9, 2009 12:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, if we're operating from the standpoint
that a guy drafted 11th is definite star, and a clear number 2 pick is a role player, then what’s the point of arguing?
Each of those three guys has a TS% around or greater than LaMarcus’s (Hawes is the only one below, at 51.1% to 53.3%, and each of has an eFG% equal to greater than LaMarcus. Plus Nocioni, who’s been surprisingly efficient offensively for them (better than LaMarcus).
Just give me a break on calling Rubio a role player and Bayless a star.
by Royster on Apr 9, 2009 6:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
agree to disagree.
When I came here (in 2004), guys like Nick (Van Exel) and Damon, they were a breath of fresh air for me,'' Przybilla
by Nick Van Excellent on Apr 9, 2009 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm also amazed that Andres Nocioni hasn't done too poorly so ...
far with the Sacramento Kings, although I still think that the ballclub should try to acquire a starting small forward during this upcoming off-season.
A trade of Kenny Thomas to the New York Knicks for Jared Jeffries and Wilson Chandler would do the trick. That’d clear up an extra $9,014,282 in salary cap space for James Dolan to spread around come the summer of 2010, while Nocioni could thereby slide into a sixth man role for the Kings.
by AK1984 on Apr 9, 2009 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't be a straight up deal
Probably Bayless, 1st round pick, maybe a 2nd rounder, and cash or something for Rubio.
Seeing as how we don’t need picks, we’d love it.
Seeing as how they need everything, they might, especially considering that Bayless = now, and Rubio might wait a year. (Especially if it is the Kings, ick.)
by Zaig on Apr 8, 2009 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The kings
would take Griffin, there is no way they would pass him up, it would be a huge mistake if they pass on Griffin.
I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden
by mxpx5678 on Apr 8, 2009 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We need to draft the guy who ninja slammed Griffin
Save him for if the Kings ever become good.
by Zaig on Apr 8, 2009 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe a team would be willing to trade down a spot or two this year if they don't really need Griffin. We will see.
by Norsktroll on Apr 8, 2009 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Griffin is the most developed franchise player in this draft
and even he is at best 2 years away from being a solid 20 10 performer. Almost every other player is a guaranteed project or role player, including Ricky Rubio who I think will show flashes of superstar ability next year but won’t really produce like the franchise cornerstone he’s meant to be until 2nd or 3rd year. Griffin is head and shoulders above anybody else in this draft, and the only way to get to the #1 pick would be to either win it in the lottery or trade your pick plus a really good player (a la the ex sonics being willing to trade the #2 plus rashard lewis for the #1 pick during the Oden/Durant sweepstakes).
by premthegrem on Apr 8, 2009 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No disrespect to Canzano
But what team in their right mind would trade a point guard of Rubio’s caliber for our lousy late first round pick and a handful of reserves or borderline starters?
by nikolokolus on Apr 8, 2009 10:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
well, Charlotte trade K*be for Vlade Divac
so you never know…
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Apr 9, 2009 12:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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