Salary vs. PER (UPDATED) Cleaned up post with more data

by mxpx5678 on Apr 6, 2009 5:12 PM PDT

Here are the top 15 PER players sorted by Salary / PER (Out of the top 50 PER)

Salary / Per Rank	Per Rank	Player	PER	EWA	Salary	Salary / Per	Salary / EWA
1	37	Paul Millsap, UTH	18.92	7.9	$797,581.00	$42,155.44	$100,959.62
2	44	Chris Andersen, DEN	18.75	5.1	$998,398.00	$53,247.89	$195,764.31
3	48	Marreese Speights, PHI	18.7	4.1	$1,542,600.00	$82,491.98	$376,243.90
4	39	Rajon Rondo, BOS	18.85	9.8	$1,646,784.00	$87,362.55	$168,039.18
5	36	David Lee, NYK	18.93	9.9	$1,788,033.00	$94,454.99	$180,609.39
6	28	Nate Robinson, NYK	19.6	8.9	$2,020,178.00	$103,070.31	$226,986.29
7	18	Danny Granger, IND	21.32	12	$2,329,804.00	$109,277.86	$194,150.33
8	7	Brandon Roy, POR	24.24	18.5	$3,084,240.00	$127,237.62	$166,715.68
9	44	Brandan Wright, GSW	18.75	2.8	$2,497,320.00	$133,190.40	$891,900.00
10	24	Andrew Bynum, LAL	20.05	6.3	$2,769,300.00	$138,119.70	$439,571.43
11	3	Chris Paul, NOR	29.87	25.8	$4,574,189.00	$153,136.56	$177,294.15
12	50	Kevin Love, MIN	18.57	6.8	$3,163,680.00	$170,365.11	$465,247.06
13	47	Charlie Villanueva, MIL	18.71	7.2	$3,448,050.00	$184,289.15	$478,895.83
14	20	Kevin Durant, OKC	21.07	14	$4,484,040.00	$212,816.33	$320,288.57
15	29	LaMarcus Aldridge, POR	19.59	11.2	$4,631,400.00	$236,416.54	$413,517.86

And here are the top 100 PER players ordered by Salary / EWA

(Looking at the bottom rank of this list you can see the players who are being paid the most for Wins added, most of them are either vets or defensive minded players, but some bad contracts show up)

Rank	Player	Wins Added	Salary	Cost Per Win Added
1	Paul Millsap, UTH	7.9	$797,581.00	$100,959.62
2	Ramon Sessions, MIL	6.9	$711,517.00	$103,118.41
3	Brandon Roy, POR	18.5	$3,084,240.00	$166,715.68
4	Rajon Rondo, BOS	9.8	$1,646,784.00	$168,039.18
5	Chris Paul, NOR	25.8	$4,574,189.00	$177,294.15
6	David Lee, NYK	9.9	$1,788,033.00	$180,609.39
7	Danny Granger, IND	12	$2,329,804.00	$194,150.33
8	Chris Andersen, DEN	5.1	$998,398.00	$195,764.31
9	Brandon Bass, DAL	3.7	$826,269.00	$223,315.95
10	Antonio McDyess, DET	4.4	$995,794.00	$226,316.82
11	Nate Robinson, NYK	8.9	$2,020,178.00	$226,986.29
12	Ronnie Brewer, UTH	7.5	$1,834,680.00	$244,624.00
13	Brook Lopez, NJN	8.5	$2,098,560.00	$246,889.41
14	Leon Powe, BOS	3.1	$797,581.00	$257,284.19
15	Will Bynum, DET	2.4	$711,517.00	$296,465.42
16	Kevin Durant, OKC	14	$4,484,040.00	$320,288.57
17	Marcin Gortat, ORL	2.2	$711,517.00	$323,416.82
18	Marreese Speights, PHI	4.1	$1,542,600.00	$376,243.90
19	James Singleton, DAL	2.1	$797,581.00	$379,800.48
20	LaMarcus Aldridge, POR	11.2	$4,631,400.00	$413,517.86
21	Marc Gasol, MEM	7.2	$3,000,000.00	$416,666.67
22	JaVale McGee, WAS	3.2	$1,392,240.00	$435,075.00
23	Deron Williams, UTH	11.6	$5,069,448.00	$437,021.38
24	Andrew Bynum, LAL	6.3	$2,769,300.00	$439,571.43
25	Hakim Warrick, MEM	4.7	$2,119,101.00	$450,872.55
26	Joakim Noah, CHI	5	$2,295,480.00	$459,096.00
27	Kevin Love, MIN	6.8	$3,163,680.00	$465,247.06
28	LeBron James, CLE	30.8	$14,410,581.00	$467,876.01
29	Charlie Villanueva, MIL	7.2	$3,448,050.00	$478,895.83
30	Dwyane Wade, MIA	28.7	$14,410,581.00	$502,110.84
31	Luis Scola, HOU	6.2	$3,142,800.00	$506,903.23
32	Anthony Randolph, GSW	3	$1,709,280.00	$569,760.00
33	Devin Harris, NJN	13.4	$7,800,000.00	$582,089.55
34	Renaldo Balkman, DEN	2.2	$1,320,960.00	$600,436.36
35	Al Horford, ATL	6.5	$4,026,720.00	$619,495.38
36	John Salmons, CHI	8.1	$5,104,000.00	$630,123.46
37	Dwight Howard, ORL	20.6	$13,758,000.00	$667,864.08
38	Craig Smith, MIN	3.4	$2,300,000.00	$676,470.59
39	Carl Landry, HOU	4.4	$3,000,000.00	$681,818.18
40	Antawn Jamison, WAS	13.8	$9,923,285.00	$719,078.62
41	Ben Gordon, CHI	8.8	$6,404,749.00	$727,812.39
42	Gerald Wallace, CHA	10.5	$8,287,500.00	$789,285.71
43	Leandro Barbosa, PHO	7.5	$6,100,000.00	$813,333.33
44	Tony Parker, SAS	13.6	$11,550,000.00	$849,264.71
45	Jameer Nelson, ORL	6.3	$5,555,555.00	$881,834.13
46	Brandan Wright, GSW	2.8	$2,497,320.00	$891,900.00
47	J.R. Smith, DEN	6.2	$5,585,001.00	$900,806.61
48	Caron Butler, WAS	9.8	$8,999,980.00	$918,365.31
49	Jason Terry, DAL	9.8	$9,075,000.00	$926,020.41
50	Andre Miller, PHI	10.6	$9,999,999.00	$943,396.13
51	Al Jefferson, MIN	11.5	$11,000,000.00	$956,521.74
52	Andre Iguodala, PHI	11.7	$11,300,000.00	$965,811.97
53	Pau Gasol, LAL	15.6	$15,080,312.00	$966,686.67
54	Emeka Okafor, CHA	9.6	$9,537,500.00	$993,489.58
55	Mo Williams, CLE	8.4	$8,353,000.00	$994,404.76
56	David West, NOR	9.9	$9,862,500.00	$996,212.12
57	Nene, DEN	9.7	$9,680,000.00	$997,938.14
58	Michael Beasley, MIA	4.3	$4,314,960.00	$1,003,479.07
59	Chris Bosh, TOR	14.2	$14,410,581.00	$1,014,829.65
60	Yao Ming, HOU	14.7	$15,070,550.00	$1,025,207.48
61	Chauncey Billups, DEN	10.7	$11,050,000.00	$1,032,710.28
62	Mehmet Okur, UTH	8	$8,500,000.00	$1,062,500.00
63	Marcus Camby, LAC	7.5	$8,000,000.00	$1,066,666.67
64	Stephen Jackson, GSW	6.6	$7,140,000.00	$1,081,818.18
65	Kevin Martin, SAC	8.5	$9,260,335.00	$1,089,451.18
66	Kobe Bryant, LAL	19.4	$21,262,500.00	$1,096,005.15
67	Dirk Nowitzki, DAL	16.1	$18,077,904.00	$1,122,851.18
68	Andris Biedrins, GSW	8	$9,000,000.00	$1,125,000.00
69	Greg Oden, POR	4.4	$5,011,680.00	$1,139,018.18
70	Tim Duncan, SAS	16.7	$20,598,703.00	$1,233,455.27
71	Steve Nash, PHO	9.6	$12,250,000.00	$1,276,041.67
72	Vince Carter, NJN	11.9	$15,200,000.00	$1,277,310.92
73	Joe Johnson, ATL	11.1	$14,232,566.00	$1,282,213.15
74	Manu Ginobili, SAS	7.3	$9,900,000.00	$1,356,164.38
75	T.J. Ford, IND	5.8	$8,000,000.00	$1,379,310.34
76	Troy Murphy, IND	7.2	$10,126,987.00	$1,406,525.97
77	Shaquille O'Neal, PHO	12.8	$20,000,000.00	$1,562,500.00
78	Richard Hamilton, DET	6.6	$10,562,500.00	$1,600,378.79
79	Carmelo Anthony, DEN	9	$14,410,581.00	$1,601,175.67
80	Corey Maggette, GSW	5	$8,275,862.00	$1,655,172.40
81	Josh Smith, ATL	6	$10,000,000.00	$1,666,666.67
82	Amare Stoudemire, PHO	8.7	$15,070,550.00	$1,732,247.13
83	Jason Richardson, PHO	7	$12,222,222.00	$1,746,031.71
84	Zydrunas Ilgauskas, CLE	6.2	$10,841,615.00	$1,748,647.58
85	Paul Pierce, BOS	10.3	$18,077,903.00	$1,755,136.21
86	Ray Allen, BOS	9.7	$17,388,430.00	$1,792,621.65
87	Brad Miller, CHI	6.1	$11,375,000.00	$1,864,754.10
88	Andrew Bogut, MIL	3.2	$6,294,306.00	$1,966,970.63
89	Josh Howard, DAL	5	$9,945,000.00	$1,989,000.00
90	Zach Randolph, LAC	7.3	$14,666,666.00	$2,009,132.33
91	Jose Calderon, TOR	8.3	$17,180,000.00	$2,069,879.52
92	Lamar Odom, LAL	5.3	$11,400,000.00	$2,150,943.40
93	Mike Bibby, ATL	6.8	$15,225,000.00	$2,238,970.59
94	Rashard Lewis, ORL	7.4	$17,238,000.00	$2,329,459.46
95	Jason Kidd, DAL	8.4	$21,372,000.00	$2,544,285.71
96	Andrei Kirilenko, UTH	5.5	$15,080,312.00	$2,741,874.91
97	Kevin Garnett, BOS	8.7	$24,750,000.00	$2,844,827.59
98	Michael Redd, MIL	4.5	$15,780,000.00	$3,506,666.67
99	Carlos Boozer, UTH	2.9	$11,593,817.00	$3,997,867.93
100	Tracy McGrady, HOU	3.4	$21,126,874.00	$6,213,786.47

It is interesting to see how much Boston is paying their top guys for each win added.

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Comments

Like I said, the guys in their first 4 years autowin.

Well, I said 3 years, I goofed on the resigning. Either way 2nd through 4th year players are going to dominate this list from top to bottom.

The only guys who stand a chance otherwise would be 5th through 8th year guys who didn’t realize their potential until after resigning.

(Seeing Kobe as the most overpayed player out of these does the body good though, although I bet KG even tops him.)

by Zaig on Apr 6, 2009 3:29 PM PDT reply actions

Yup

I don’t think there is anything too earth shattering here. This would be better used during the off season i think to evaluate a players worth among peers (and to see what teams should be offering them. Like I said I will put together a more complete list tonight.

I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden

by mxpx5678 on Apr 6, 2009 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions

I was curious about KG

And ran his numbers real quick. He is the worst one i have done so far…

His salary is 24,750,000 and it costs 1,158,707 for each PER point and 2,844,827 for each win added, ouch!

I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden

by mxpx5678 on Apr 6, 2009 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions

Next season his salary goes down a few million

by Norsktroll on Apr 6, 2009 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions

This could be easily adjusted for

We could segregate the 2-4 population, or assign a metric to give their salaries some logical weight.

by T$ 225 on Apr 6, 2009 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions

Let me know if you come up with any ideas of weighting the salary based on years played or something, that could be interesting….

I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden

by mxpx5678 on Apr 6, 2009 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions

The 2-4 population is weird all together

I believe their salary is based on where they got drafted. So effectively that’s a “draft pick vs per” list. (I could be wrong, not a guru about salary.) The 5th year + list would be interesting though. Or a list of free agents/per/salary. See which guys out there are the best deal and so on.

I bet you most GMs have extensive lists about this type of stuff.

by Zaig on Apr 6, 2009 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions

Manu only makes 9.9 million? Hope we can get that kind of discount for LA

by trailblazersfan on Apr 6, 2009 3:39 PM PDT reply actions

I really want to know

who has the WORST salary/PER and EWA is? In other words, which players have the worst contracts?

Of active/non-injured players (and those who haven’t been bought out), I’m guessing our old friend Z-Bo is pretty high up there.

by T$ 225 on Apr 6, 2009 3:51 PM PDT reply actions

And rec

This is an interesting topic to explore

by T$ 225 on Apr 6, 2009 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions

That will be interesting to see.

I will try and do like the top 100 players in here and then sort by Best 10 and worst 10.

Also does anyone know a site that shows a list of all players and their salaries?

I have been using hoops hype but you have to select a team before you see that teams salaries, i was hoping for just a long list of players and salaries.

Hope some of you find this useful.

I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden

by mxpx5678 on Apr 6, 2009 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions

I know there are top salary figures

That would probably be the best place to start from.

by robrun2 on Apr 6, 2009 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions

Storyteller:

Link

"They didn't know it was impossible, so they did it"

by amlmart1 on Apr 7, 2009 8:14 AM PDT up reply actions

Nice thanks!

I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden

by mxpx5678 on Apr 7, 2009 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions

starbury?

The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever

by Philthyanimal on Apr 6, 2009 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions

Bought out

There’s a class of player whose ratio is so bad, that it is more cost effective to simply pay them not to play

by T$ 225 on Apr 6, 2009 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions

Worst Salary/PER ratio should be defensive players like

Raja Bell, James Posey, Bruce Bowen and Samuel Dalembert. I’d also expect Wally Szczerbiak to be on there because of his gigantic salary. Other guys who are way overpaid include Quentin Richardson, Andres Nocioni, and Rasho Nesterovic.

by trailblazersfan on Apr 6, 2009 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions

Ben Wallace

would have to be up there, right?

by T$ 225 on Apr 6, 2009 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions

I'd think so

Richard Jefferson has a terrible PER if I remember so he might be up there too

by trailblazersfan on Apr 6, 2009 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions

Raef

It’s infinite.

by Royster on Apr 6, 2009 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions

This is only looking at players with a PER so it is only players who have played a minimum number of games. This is meant to show more how much a team is paying for the production and wins they are getting.

I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden

by mxpx5678 on Apr 6, 2009 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions

Martell actually has a negative PER this season, whatever that means

by trailblazersfan on Apr 6, 2009 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions

touche

by Royster on Apr 6, 2009 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions

So Far

I have only done the top 50 players by PER.

I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden

by mxpx5678 on Apr 6, 2009 4:24 PM PDT reply actions

For this to be a decent assessment some type of scaling/translation needs to be done

For example if you have a player with a PER of 9 and he gets paid 4 million that isn’t that good of value. But that ratio is actually better than LeBron James.

by trailblazersfan on Apr 6, 2009 4:38 PM PDT reply actions

Yeah

I don’t think this works to look at players like Kobe Bryan, Lebron James and D-wade, they make a lot of money but they are also really good. I think it works better for the midrange players to see how much people are paying for average production. Though I am open to suggestions if you have any ideas on how I can throw in some more metrics.

I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden

by mxpx5678 on Apr 6, 2009 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions

One quick way to fix this is to

take (Salary+constant)/PER=Salary/PER+constant/PER the term constant/PER will then add very little to players like LBJ but more to guys with smaller PERs.

by trailblazersfan on Apr 6, 2009 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions

What if I used average Salary of the group as that constant? If not that what would you suggest?

I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden

by mxpx5678 on Apr 6, 2009 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions

You can try that

the constant should be pretty big, the larger you make it the more you are weighing PER. I don’t have experience/knowledge in stats, so this method probably isn’t the most elegant way to spread out data.

by trailblazersfan on Apr 6, 2009 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions

Hmmm, yeah it definetly spreads out the rankings quite a bit (B-Roy and CP3 jump to the top of the list). But I am not sure it improves anything. Really all this list is showing is how much you are paying for production and wins. This is definetly a case where stats won’t show you everything. No matter what this chart shows the top 15 PER players are going to be worth every penny. I will play around with it some more….

I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden

by mxpx5678 on Apr 6, 2009 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions

here is one way to mess with the formula

Salary=s in millions PER=p

Rating=S/P+(15/P)^n-1

I let the constant be 15 since that is what Hollinger normalizes the average PER to, I subtract 1 because this new formula will not change a players rating if they haver PER of 15 and penalize players who have a low PER and help players with a large PER. The extent to which you want to weigh PER is determined by n.

by trailblazersfan on Apr 6, 2009 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions

in the last sentence I mean

if you want to weigh PER a lot pick n large if you don’t want to weigh it much pick n small

by trailblazersfan on Apr 6, 2009 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions

for n \geq 0

by trailblazersfan on Apr 6, 2009 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions

Hmm it’s not really giving me good results

This is how I have it in excel,
PER = p
Salary = s
Weight Factor = n

(s/p)+((15/p)^(n)-1)

At the end of the day I don’t really want to take PER out of the equation because we are really trying to see how much teams are paying for production, in a lot of cases it is warranted though.

Let’s keep looking at this though….

I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden

by mxpx5678 on Apr 6, 2009 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions

if you're working in millions the 1 should be 1 million

If you take n large it will weigh PER quite a bit. To exaggerate this even more you could do something like multiply the second term in the sum by a number c to get (s/p)+c*((15/p)^(n)-1), again a PER of 15 is unchanged but for players with PER>15 and for n large c*((15/p)^(n)-1) is approximately -c.

by trailblazersfan on Apr 6, 2009 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions

and the 15 should be 15 million

by trailblazersfan on Apr 6, 2009 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions

ok i will try that in a bit.

I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden

by mxpx5678 on Apr 6, 2009 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions

It's Further evidenced

By the Worst Salary / Wins added list. Those are 15 players that anyone would want on their team, and would probably pay them what they are getting now. But it looks bad because they are making so much money. (Though like I said Bedrins jumps out on that list as a player who doesn’t belong)

I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden

by mxpx5678 on Apr 6, 2009 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions

As much

As I hate Birdman, he really jumps out on a Wins added vs. Salary basis.

I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden

by mxpx5678 on Apr 6, 2009 5:14 PM PDT reply actions

Wouldn't be surprised if he sacked his agent

by T$ 225 on Apr 7, 2009 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions

What other stats

Would be interesting to look at on a per salary basis??

I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden

by mxpx5678 on Apr 6, 2009 5:31 PM PDT reply actions

Do you have coach salaries?

http://saboner.mybrute.com

by Sabonis4Ever on Apr 6, 2009 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions

They are hard to find but i could get them.

I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden

by mxpx5678 on Apr 6, 2009 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions

What would you want to see about them??

I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden

by mxpx5678 on Apr 6, 2009 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions

How Nate stacks up against the other winning record teams

http://saboner.mybrute.com

by Sabonis4Ever on Apr 6, 2009 8:23 PM PDT up reply actions

What is EWA?

How about SCENARIO, Bill?

by tominhawaii on Apr 6, 2009 6:35 PM PDT reply actions

Estimated Wins Added (Taken from Hollingers Stats) It shows you how many wins a player adds.

I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden

by mxpx5678 on Apr 6, 2009 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions

VA / 30

VA Value Added is the estimated number of points a player adds to a team’s season total above what a “replacement player” (for instance, the 12th man on the roster) would produce. Value Added = ([Minutes * (PER – PRL)] / 67). PRL (Position Replacement Level) = 11.5 for power forwards, 11.0 for point guards, 10.6 for centers, 10.5 for shooting guards and small forwards

EWA Estimated Wins Added is Value Added divided by 30, giving the estimated number of wins a player adds to a team’s season total above what a “replacement player” would produce.

by Norsktroll on Apr 6, 2009 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions

Thanks for adding more detail.

And again if you can think of other metrics to add I am open to ideas!

I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden

by mxpx5678 on Apr 6, 2009 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions

Do they divide by 30 because that is how many days are in a month?

How about SCENARIO, Bill?

by tominhawaii on Apr 6, 2009 6:52 PM PDT up reply actions

Per Hollinger....

EWA is just VA divided by 30, since it takes about 30 points over the course of an 82-game season to add another win.

I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden

by mxpx5678 on Apr 6, 2009 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions

Why do they divide by 67?

How about SCENARIO, Bill?

by tominhawaii on Apr 6, 2009 7:14 PM PDT up reply actions

more from hollinger.

There’s one more step. We want VA to mean something, and in this case we want it to be the approximate number of additional points the player has been worth to his team, over the course of the season, relative to a replacement level player. To get to Point A from Point B requires us to divide the result by 67. Yes, 67. Sorry, that’s what works. (If you’re curious, a point of PER over the course of 2,000 minutes is worth about 30 points to a team, meaning that one point of PER over one minute is worth 1/67th of a point.)

I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden

by mxpx5678 on Apr 6, 2009 7:25 PM PDT up reply actions