Spend Those 12 Fouls, Nate!!
I've never written an anti-Nate fanpost, and I'm not about to start now. McMillan is a very capable coach, and I figure there are reasons for most of the things he does. But I do question one thing: what's the good of having two bonafide NBA centers, with 12 available fouls between them, if you're afraid of using those fouls?
Sunday's loss to the Rockets was no embarrassment: Houston is a tough, talented team with an impressive home record. And it's not like the Blazers got blown out: they were in the game until nearly the end. But the game followed a familiar, disturbing pattern of Blazer losses this season. Namely, one or both Blazer centers gets in early foul trouble, and while they're both on the bench the opponent takes control of the game. At game's end, the good news is that neither center has fouled out. But the bad news is that the Blazers have lost the game.
It's as though Nate were deathly afraid of having both GO & Przy foul out, forcing him to play Frye in the post. So his solution is...to play Frye in the post! It's almost as though, in his gut, Nate fears losing both of his centers to fouls more than he fears losing games. Ridiculous? Well, then consider this: the two centers have yet to both foul out of a game this season, but the Blazers have lost a number of games protecting against that eventuality.
As a child, I was told that a rich aunt of mine had been so emotionally scarred from growing up in the Depression that she hoarded her money and died of malnutrition. (I later learned this was a bit of a family myth, but never mind that.) Nate reminds me of that aunt. Like most NBA coaches, he's seldom had a legit NBA center, so even now that he has TWO of them, he lives in mortal fear of finding himself center-less.
Really, though, Nate's case is worse than that rich aunt's. Because a person who dies without having enjoyed the benefits of their money can at least give it away to their offspring, whereas unused post fouls (and minutes) are simply wasted.
The Blazers possess a rare weapon: two legit centers with energy and fouls to burn. Unless matchups dictate otherwise, it seems to me that one of those guys should be on the floor every single minute of every game. If, once in a blue moon, both of them happen to foul out, at least Nate will have gotten his money's worth. Then and only then should he send in a back-up finesse forward (Frye) to do a center's job.
14 recs |
74 comments
Comments
I agree with your post
We also have to give some credit to the ref’s for some touchy fouls, and to Greg for picking up at least 2 “rookie” fouls, which in the future shouldn’t be an issue. My only guess is that Nate was hoping to survive with Frye, because he didn’t want to face an end game situation with the game on the line and no center to turn to. Even so, I would rather Nate play them until they get #6.
by usmcr3049 on Apr 6, 2009 12:50 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Therein lies the problem
Do you want to not have a center when you’re tied with 2 minutes left.
OR
Do you want to have a center when you’re down 10 with 2 minutes left?
I think the answer is obvious!
by Zaig on Apr 6, 2009 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I've chirped these same sentiments in a couple of threads today...
I heart Nate… but last night I wanted more.
Give the man his "M"!!!
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Apr 6, 2009 1:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He's overly cautious
That’s just how he rolls. Leaving the starters in with a 20 point lead and 7 minutes left? Why not?
by robrun2 on Apr 6, 2009 1:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
No
Against a team like Houston, I don’t think you can afford to be liberal with foul fouls. Do you want to be down 6 points with 4 minutes to go and have to put Channing Frye on Yao?
Also, did you notice that once both Greg and Joel got into early foul trouble yesterday, that the Rockets went inside everytime? It kept happening until the refs just stopped calling fouls on Greg because he would’ve fouled out in less than 15 minutes.
by koyote on Apr 6, 2009 1:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Sure: if you're down 6 points with 4 minutes left and have to go with Frye on Yao, you're done
My point is that you’re far less likely to find yourself down 6 points with four minutes left if GO & Przy have played every single minute up until that point. Chances are you’ll be up 10+. The Rockets—like most NBA teams—simply can’t cope with a two-center tandem like GO & Przy. They get worn down by the third quarter.
Yao Ming in particular possesses the stamina of a cheetah—minus the speed! He spends a considerable amount of time on the bench recuperating, and Adelman resorts to Scola as a sub. Scola vs Oden (or even Przy) is a matchup you HAVE to take advantage of! But you can’t do so with GO sitting on the bench.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Apr 6, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I just realized what the Blazers' 2-center tandem reminds me of
I haven’t watched pro wrestling since I was a kid. But I remember how, during a tag team match, the first member of the “good guy” team would be getting absolutely pummelled. He’d nearly get pinned a couple of times. But he’d somehow manage to reach out and tag his partner’s hand. Then here comes “good guy #1,” fresh as a daisy and ready to kick the living daylights out of “bad guy #1.” Of course, said “bad guy” is pooped from dishing out all that punishment to “good guy #1,” so he’s completely defenseless against the onslaught. He can’t even get over to his corner to tag his partner’s hand, and he’s quickly pinned. Match over.
Of course, in the case of Przy & GO, it isn’t that their opponent can’t tag his partner’s hand. In basketball, the opposing coach can call a time out and bring in his back-up center. But there are very few NBA backup centers who can deal with a fresh Przy or GO. So the result is the same as in a wresting tag-team match: “good guy #2” dishes out plenty of punishment. If Nate doesn’t send him to the bench first, that is…
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Apr 6, 2009 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Unless it is best 2 outta 3
and Sandy Barr gets distracted by someone in the crowd….cause then Bad guy # 2 runs in and bashs good guy # 2 with a folding chair ……game over.
I also liked this scenario ….good guy number # is Jimmy Snuka and he decides to finish off Bad Guy # 1 by jumping off top rope and Bad guy #1 rolls outta the way and then Snuka lands on the canvas (which we know is muuucchhh harder on the body than a nice soft wrestler) and is totally knocked out and BG #1 manages to lay on top of him and win
"You're welcome friend
I love you."
- Tom "Dragline" inHawaii
by 92wastheyear on Apr 6, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
and Sandy Barr gets distracted by someone in the crowd
All you had to do was poke Sandy in the chest and he’d fly out of the ring like he was hit by a cannon. He’d be out for 10 minutes, or however long it took for the bad guy to be in pinning position, whichever was shorter.
Sandy was so good at that.
by Timmay! on Apr 6, 2009 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh yeah
Also loved the “sleeper hold” especially the purely Portland version of it. I can’t remember who it was ….but one of the Bad Guys had a sleeper hold that would leave the guy knocked out …..but only the bad guy could wake him up….then he would just leave (of course) with the poor schmuck of a good guy in a (appearently permanent) coma.
"You're welcome friend
I love you."
- Tom "Dragline" inHawaii
by 92wastheyear on Apr 6, 2009 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Jimmy Snuka and Dutch Savage vs.
Bull Ramos and Jesse “the Great” Ventura was my favorite matchup at Portland Wrestling.
We also had the Iron Sheik in town for awhile. He was great.
by TallTimber on Apr 6, 2009 6:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm more than a little annoyed
That KPTV destroyed the Portland Wrestling tapes. (They’d tape the latest episode over the previous master every week). Neither they, nor Don Owen, had any idea there would be any long-term cash in archiving them.
I’ve been promising to do a Portland Wrestling fanpost one of these days. It may be time soon.
by Timmay! on Apr 6, 2009 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks Guys! You brought back many great memories of watching Portland Wrestling!
Timmay! that is great idea, but I am hoping that you will hold off until the we all start going through topic withdrawals during the summer. We are going to need something to blog about.
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LMA - Putting the POWER in POWER FORWARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LMA Rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I <3 LMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
38:55 Mins, 14-24 FGs, 7-8 FTs, +30, 7 Off, 18 Rebs, 2 Ast, 1 Stl, 1 Blk, 35 Points!!!! LMA vs OKC 4-3-09
by LaMarvelous on Apr 6, 2009 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I saw Playboy Buddy Rose
in the Denny’s in Medford
Brush with greatness (sorta)
"You're welcome friend
I love you."
- Tom "Dragline" inHawaii
by 92wastheyear on Apr 6, 2009 8:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
PBR was a little harsh to look at.... (disgusting actually)
Blazer's Edge Ambassador to The Dream Shake Blog
LMA - Putting the POWER in POWER FORWARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LMA Rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I <3 LMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
38:55 Mins, 14-24 FGs, 7-8 FTs, +30, 7 Off, 18 Rebs, 2 Ast, 1 Stl, 1 Blk, 35 Points!!!! LMA vs OKC 4-3-09
by LaMarvelous on Apr 6, 2009 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
"You're welcome friend
I love you."
- Tom "Dragline" inHawaii
by 92wastheyear on Apr 6, 2009 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My wife saw him on a recent AWA episode on ESPN classic
She wanted to make sure that pro wrestling really did name guys ironically, and that he wasn’t considered a playboy. I alleviated her concerns.
by Timmay! on Apr 6, 2009 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, I was leaning toward a Summer JD for a Portland Wrestling thread
I almost did one recently when Steve Doll passed away, since I figured some people here would know him, and probably would miss the news.
by Timmay! on Apr 6, 2009 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You figured correctly... I completely missed that piece of news....
Blazer's Edge Ambassador to The Dream Shake Blog
LMA - Putting the POWER in POWER FORWARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LMA Rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I <3 LMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
38:55 Mins, 14-24 FGs, 7-8 FTs, +30, 7 Off, 18 Rebs, 2 Ast, 1 Stl, 1 Blk, 35 Points!!!! LMA vs OKC 4-3-09
by LaMarvelous on Apr 6, 2009 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I know it's a downer
I’ll try to make up for it with some fun content when I do the JD thread this summer.
by Timmay! on Apr 6, 2009 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me three!
My dad and I used to watch Portland Wrestling together every Saturday night.
When I was 10, the neighbors invited me to live wrestling at the Corvallis Armory. I threw a wadded up Pepsi cup into the back of Dutch Savage (he was still bad at the time and thrashing some poor guy). It was the best throw of my life, from like twenty rows. He came storming out of the ring up the aisle yelling “Who threw that!” While everyone jumped over rows of seats to get away from him, I screamed “I did!” and held my ground. The ref was yelling out the count. It got to 6 before Dutch turned and ran back into the ring, flying under the ropes. He smashed that poor guy one more time and pinned him and stormed out.
I just realized that he probably wasn’t even mad! Such a showman. He was probably using it for effect.
Needless to say, I was not invited anywhere by the Wardles again!
by LaoTzu on Apr 7, 2009 12:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oops
Of course, that’s “good guy number TWO” who prances in fresh as a daisy and wreaks revenge on “bad guy #1,” who’s plumb tuckered out from slamming “good guy #1’s” head into the turnbuckle. Turnbuckle-slamming must be hard work…
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Apr 6, 2009 7:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Turnbuckle-slamming ... must be hard work."
Ala Frankie!
by LaoTzu on Apr 7, 2009 12:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They are going to put Scola on Aldridge
The bottom line, is that Joel and Greg are not going to get the calls, even at home. The Blazers are going to have to make Yao play defense early on if we are going to beat the Rockets.
by koyote on Apr 6, 2009 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
If you are down 6 with 4 minutes to go
The best option is to go small with the offense-oriented lineup that we usually use anyway. Put Aldridge on Yao and hope that the mismatches created on offense out way the mismatches on defense.
by trk on Apr 7, 2009 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree 100%
It’s almost like Nate doesn’t realize you get 6 fouls in the NBA. I can’t even count the number of games this year where Nate pulled Oden early due to fouls, and Oden ended up only committing 4 or 5 for the game. The only way to maximize Oden’s minutes is to let him foul out.
I have one other (related) criticism of Nate – it’s time to shorten the rotation in preparation for the playoffs. We don’t need to throw Channing or Sergio out there, except for garbage time or emergencies. We frequently get slaughtered when those guys check in.
Oden and Pryzbilla can play 48 minutes combined. They’re not going to both foul out. Outlaw can play all of the backup power forward minutes. Blake can play 38-40 minutes, and Roy can handle the point guard duties for the 8-10 minutes that Blake sits out. It’s time for an 8-man rotation, with Rudy backing up Blake and Roy, Trout backing up Nic and LMA, and Oden backing up Pryz.
by OKBLAZER on Apr 6, 2009 1:09 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
You have to remember
1. Rudy is still fighting a back injury and needs time to recoup (also Roy’s knee needs some healing), so Sergio is a necessity to spare them 40 minutes a night running up to the playoffs
2. When playing a bigger team (like Houston), Outlaw at the 4 is a liability. He’ll have to guard Scola or Hayes, both of which will kill him on the boards.
3. As for Oden and Pryz, Nate’s darned if you do, darned if you don’t. If he plays them both a lot and they’re both in foul trouble at the end, they may give up easy shots in the lane not trying to get the 6th foul (they will lose some aggressiveness). If he doesn’t, then he has to play Frye early risking giving up points early which the team has to come back from. I for one agree that I would rather both foul out and play small ball, then play small ball with both on the bench.
...things go well I might be showing my O face...O...O...O...you know what I'm talking about.
by Matt Daddy on Apr 6, 2009 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, it's really pretty simple...
You want to maximize the number of minutes your centers are on the floor—especially against a physical team like the Rockets. When Przy and GO were both on the bench, the physical Houston forwards (not to mention Yao) had a field day.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Apr 6, 2009 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Outlaw at 4 can be a liability, but...
Frye at 4 is almost always a liability. At least Outlaw gives you a threat on offense. Frye is shooting 41% on the season. That’s incredibly bad for a power forward. He’s also a terrible defender. He may give you a little better rebounding than Outlaw…
I agree that we need to give Roy and Rudy some rest if possible, but we need to make as big of a push for a top-4 seed as we possibly can. And I’d like to get a few minutes of Roy playing the point during these last few games so that he’s a little more comfortable doing it in the playoffs.
Good point about if both Pryz and Oden do foul out of the same game (which has never happened, GO has only fouled out of 5 all year), you can always go small ball with Aldridge, Trout and Batum as your front line.
by OKBLAZER on Apr 6, 2009 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think one things missed in all of this is how is Oden EVER going to learn to play with foul trouble
if he is constantly getting yanked with a couple fouls. Sometimes you just have to leave him in a little longer and let him learn when to back off and not pick up the extra one. When Nate yanks him with 2 in the first half and 4 in the second he isn’t learning. You have to think long term with his development and learning to play with a couple fouls is a big part of that (especially if he keeps getting the crap calls he gets).
...things go well I might be showing my O face...O...O...O...you know what I'm talking about.
by Matt Daddy on Apr 6, 2009 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly! You nailed it! Oden needs to be in there longer even if it means he gets 4 in the first half.
He needs to know that he can keep playing even if he gets a couple of quick fouls. Otherwise all he is thinking about is “Dang It ! I another foul!”. Instead he should going “That’s OK, I will do it better next time.” He isn’t being allowed to focus on the game instead of focusing on his fouls.
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LMA - Putting the POWER in POWER FORWARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LMA Rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I <3 LMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
38:55 Mins, 14-24 FGs, 7-8 FTs, +30, 7 Off, 18 Rebs, 2 Ast, 1 Stl, 1 Blk, 35 Points!!!! LMA vs OKC 4-3-09
by LaMarvelous on Apr 6, 2009 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is why the Blazers MUST GET A BEEFY POWER FORWARD!
We need muscle off the bench, and a guy who pounds on the opposition.
Sergio and Oden in there to start the 2nd quarter is a huge liability. Together, in 3-4 minutes, the opponent is already in the penalty. It is like a freaking parade, especially on the road.
How tiresome!
So we also need a reliable back-up for Blake, unless we luck into a better starting PG (good luck). Especially since neither Roy nor Rudy can guard quick opposing PGs. Against Williams or CP3 or Parker, we would be defenseless. We had a hard time even guarding Houston’s PGs.
by LaoTzu on Apr 7, 2009 12:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are somewhat right
Both Cs won’t use all 6 fouls. Oden uses 6, but Joel uses 2 Ts.
by T$ 225 on Apr 6, 2009 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Frye had to go in last game
He gets DNPs when the big guys aren’t in foul trouble.
Sergio has been playing fine as of late, and protecting the ball better than Blake even. (Minus that 5 turnover blowout, but Sergio also goes into flash mode during blowouts.)
by Zaig on Apr 6, 2009 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good post--you very clearly enunciated some of my frustrations---
Your ultimate point: there’s no difference between them fouling out or sitting with 4 fouls…it’s still small ball with Channing pretending to be a center who can hit 3’s. Coach may be surprised, and one or both of his centers may end up NOT fouling out, but finishing with 5 fouls. And along the way, the opposing center has been affected, and we have a better chance of a win.
P.S. I love Coach Mcmillan, just sayin’….
It's spelled "PRZYBILLA."
vanillathrillagorillaprzybilla
by RenoBlazerFan on Apr 6, 2009 1:44 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
and rec
It's spelled "PRZYBILLA."
vanillathrillagorillaprzybilla
by RenoBlazerFan on Apr 6, 2009 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, there IS a difference
If you let the centers play until (on rare occasions) they both foul out, they’ll end up logging a lot more minutes. And those are minutes during which they’re making things very tough on opposing teams—even physical ones like the Rockets.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Apr 6, 2009 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that's what I was trying to say....
It's spelled "PRZYBILLA."
vanillathrillagorillaprzybilla
by RenoBlazerFan on Apr 6, 2009 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
add Frye's fouls in there
and we have 18 to use at the center position.
If only Yao were a poorer FT shooter. – Elgin
Blazers win BDL 2 on 2 tournament!
Skeets: i’ll close it down now … congrats. you bastards
by 22baylor on Apr 6, 2009 2:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Since Frye does not play down low on offense
… it hurts our defensive rebounding.
by LaoTzu on Apr 7, 2009 12:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oden's conditioning
I’m still hoping to see the incredible athlete that Oden was before the knee surgery. We’ve heard (and seen) that Oden has not yet regained the speed and explosiveness he had before surgery or maybe even before coming back from the cracked kneecap.
The only way he is going to get into “game shape” is to play more minutes; the only way he is going to learn to play with fouls is to play more minutes. Greg was protected in college when he was pulled after getting his second foul, but that was without a good back-up.
I’m all in favor of trying to win the final games, but Oden should be playing 20+ minutes a game; if he fouls out before then so be it. Even if Joel fouls out, I’d rather see Frye come in at the end of the game than “protecting” Greg (and Joel) early.
As a complete aside, did anyone else notice that Greg looked small when compared to Yao? Or how incredibly tiny Aaron Brooks looked when he was next to Yao? Maybe both Greg and Joel would have fouled out if Houston pressed the issue, but let’s use the fouls rather than Channing Frye.
by vcubed on Apr 6, 2009 3:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Or how when Brooks runs into Yao
It’s a foul on Blake.
by Zaig on Apr 6, 2009 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I saw what you did there......and I liked it!
Blazer's Edge Ambassador to The Dream Shake Blog
LMA - Putting the POWER in POWER FORWARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LMA Rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I <3 LMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
38:55 Mins, 14-24 FGs, 7-8 FTs, +30, 7 Off, 18 Rebs, 2 Ast, 1 Stl, 1 Blk, 35 Points!!!! LMA vs OKC 4-3-09
by LaMarvelous on Apr 6, 2009 8:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
to play devil's advocate
I pretty much agree with you guys. But the argument against playing players until they foul out is that players change their game at 5 fouls and become much less efficient.
I think Nate should let Oden foul out but pull Pryz any time he’s in foul trouble. I’d rather play Channing in the middle of games than play a 5 foul Pryz or Oden at the end of games.
by boppitywop on Apr 6, 2009 3:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Not if Nate tells them to play normal
Assuming it’s not 6/5, just tell the guy with 5 to play his game. If you foul out, no biggy.
by Zaig on Apr 6, 2009 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually agree with you on this
Not so much with Pryz, but with Oden. Let him foul out. Pencil it in and let him learn and give him that time on the floor. Give him two time periods on the floor and keep him there until his time expires or he hits three fouls. Greg needs consistent time (as do most people) to get his groove going. Stopping and starting isn’t efficient in most lines of work.
Pryz, I believe being a little more prudent with.
Still, I’m a back seat driver here and I recognize that Nate may know something I don’t. Based on what I do know, I definitely agree with you though.
The goal is not to be better, the goal is to be the best.
by ratbastird on Apr 6, 2009 3:24 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
He pulls them
so they can figure out what they are doing and how to change it. Its not like a miracle occurs and they all of a sudden stop fouling in the second half. They change their mentality while on the bench, and then when they come back in they play more cautiously. If Nate left them in their they would just continue doing what they were doing and foul out in 5 minutes.
Plus the refs need to forget about them, for a little while so that when they do go back in the zebras aren’t just keeping focused on the big men who just committed 2 fouls in 30 seconds.
From the back of Travis Outlaw's Franz card: Travis leads the team in monstrous thunder dunks, wins awards for post game interviews, and often gets extra points for degree of difficulty.
From the back of Greg Oden's Franz card: Nickname: Jaws. Has an insatiable desire to tear rims apart while cruising the open court, and was once interested in using head-gear for his profession.
by TheOdenator on Apr 6, 2009 3:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I disagree that, if Nate left 'em in, they'd foul out in five minutes
Refs may call a quick pair of fouls on a guy, but they seem loath to follow that up with ADDITIONAL foul calls. That is, unless said player does something really dumb—i.e, he commits a foul so blatant that he leaves the ref no choice but to call it.
On the other hand, Nate’s approach of pulling the offending player the instant he gets the two fouls takes the onus off the official. We’ve seen this a lot this season: GO gets the quick two and Nate gives him the hook. GO gets in again just before halftime (or just after) and immediately gets called. Out he goes again. GO ends up racking up 5 or 6 fouls in only six or eight minutes of play, but because it’s spread out over the course of the game, the officials don’t really seem to be picking on him.
Importantly, I’m not questioning Nate’s general policy of pulling players after two fouls. Rather, I’m suggesting that in the case of the Blazers’ “two-headed center,” he should make an exception. That’s because, in effect, GO/ Przy is one guy, with 12, not 6, fouls to use. So give whichever guy is in the game a chance to break a sweat and find his rhythm, even if he picks up a few fouls in the process. Ultimately, he’ll have a much better chance to impact the game than if he gets the quick hook.
The Blazers’ can seriously wear down opponents with their two active, physical centers. We’ve seen this. But it only works if one or the other big is on the court at nearly all times. (Again, as I mentioned in the poll, the obvious exception is when matchups favor going center-less.)
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Apr 6, 2009 7:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand the sentiment
and in some ways i agree with you.
But Nate has a standard: 2 fouls and you’re out. No special privledges, not even to Brandon.
Sophia
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
Roses are red
violets in bloom
Sophia’s in love
with Nicholas Batum
-Bow4Meow
by BlazerFan1 on Apr 6, 2009 4:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Oden specifically needs to work on
keeping his hands up and not swiping at the player when the ball i 1/2 way down. He’s almost a step slow behind each play. He cant anticipate, a foul happens. So Greg needs to work on this.
Sophia
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
Roses are red
violets in bloom
Sophia’s in love
with Nicholas Batum
-Bow4Meow
by BlazerFan1 on Apr 6, 2009 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think you give Nate enough credit
Nate has shown the ability and willingness to change course (sooner or later) when an approach isn’t working. At that point, he tries a different approach—even if that approach violates of one of his “rules.” For example, it took Nate awhile to accept that splitting the back-up point guard minutes wasn’t working. Nate was loath to award the slot to either Sergio or Bayless when neither had clearly beaten out the other. But eventually Nate bowed to the reality that in splitting those minutes, BOTH players’ performance suffered. So Nate awarded the minutes to Sergio and glued Bayless to the bench. (Sergio hasn’t exactly excelled since then, but he’s certainly played better than either guard did during Nate’s “platooning” phase.)
My point is that Nate may be stubborn, but not to the point of being rigid & unbending. I expect that eventually he’ll start spending those 12 post fouls more freely. I’m just hoping the change comes sooner rather than later.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Apr 6, 2009 7:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't have a problem with Nate resting his bigs and trying something new or old or different
But then I’m a freakin’ homer.
How about SCENARIO, Bill?
by tominhawaii on Apr 6, 2009 5:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Sort of Agree but...
I think the point of pulling them isn’t just to save them but to try to change the flow of the game and get them to change their approach to what is happening on the floor. I think Nate changes the match ups to see what kinds of adjustments the Rockets make and to see if he can get some mismatches at the other end of the floor.
He probably should have come back with either one of them a bit sooner but they kept it close and had them both ready for the second half with 2 fouls each, so I think he achieved his goal. They just couldn’t make it happen in the second half.
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
by tssbro on Apr 6, 2009 5:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Anbother thing I have noticed...
Invariably Greg gets in early foul trouble but for the most part once he picks up 4-5 fouls the refs start letting him play. I know there have been several games where he has played 5+ minutes after picking up his 5th foul.
Rooo-D!
by truls on Apr 6, 2009 5:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I had meant to note that too
I’m not sure if it’s because Greg backs off a little, or if the refs are trigger-shy when he has five fouls. Probably a bit of both.
But Greg seems to stay in the game longer with 5 fouls than he does with 1.
by Timmay! on Apr 6, 2009 6:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Both Oden and Pryzzy ended with 4 fouls -- and Nate only had them on the court for a combined 31 minutes against Yao Ming's team.
Something is messed up.
Pontiff of the Pryz for Prez Posse...
by timbo on Apr 6, 2009 8:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He was resting them for the playoffs
How about SCENARIO, Bill?
by tominhawaii on Apr 6, 2009 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he didn't want to give up his game plan
In case the Blazers match up with the Rockets in the first round.
How about SCENARIO, Bill?
by tominhawaii on Apr 6, 2009 8:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You didn't disclose Nate's master plan, Tom
Namely, to play Przy and GO simultaneously when Yao is in the game. The two combined are actually as large as Mr. Ming.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Apr 6, 2009 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I liked it when I saw it the first time.
Double low post action!
by LaoTzu on Apr 7, 2009 12:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was at that game (vs the Celtics @ the Rose Garden)
The tactic really seemed to throw the Celtics off and switch the game’s momentum. It would only work in certain matchups. No doubt Nate will experiment more with it in the future, though.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Apr 7, 2009 1:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think part of the reason Nate is so cautious with Oden
is for psychological reasons. I think we all know that if Oden had fouled out of multiple games, national media would promptly be citing statistics about how much he had fouled out and the cameras would be zooming in on his frowning face on the bench. Even though Oden ends up losing a lot of time to foul trouble, he never has that “throw the towel in” moment when he knows he has no chance of getting on the court for the rest of the game. By keeping Oden with at least one of two fouls remaining every game, Nate is forcing Oden to stay plugged into the game – he could sub in at any moment, even in the last minute or thirty seconds of the contest.
by dblieberman on Apr 6, 2009 8:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It's like getting a spending spree of 120 bucks
And only spending 80. You can’t take the fouls you save from game to game, just like the spending spree… so why not take it to the limit?
Good Post.
I know less than half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
by haildablazer on Apr 6, 2009 8:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ever watch "Survivor?"
I’m thinking about the food auction they have every season. Nate reminds me of the guy who saves his money for the perfect food item, but then the auction ends and he’s got no food—just a pocket full of worthless cash (worthless on the island, that is).
Nate also reminds me of all the survivors who have found the “hidden immunity idol” but failed to play it at tribal council. So they exit the show with no million dollars, just a wonderful trinket (probably worth a couple hundred bucks on eBay).
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Apr 6, 2009 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it had as much to do with offense as defense
we were getting beat by Yao regardless who guarded him, but he was sagging way off the centers on defense and the lane became real congested. Nate might have been trying to draw him out. It might have worked
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Apr 7, 2009 5:22 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Memphis game -- QED!
A perfect example of your thesis, my fine man. With Pyrz at minus 1 on the plus-minus chart and Oden +13, and the box showing 42 independent minutes between the two centers, a couple of simple subtractions show that in the remaining 6 minutes of the game, the Blazers were -9 to the Griz. By game’s end, Pryz and GO had 7 personals between them, meaning Nate underspent by 5 fouls. It cost him a point and a half a minute … and nearly the game!
by blazerwizard on Apr 8, 2009 5:31 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Glad someone noticed. Normally, I enjoy being proven right
Not so last night. When Nate once again put Frye into the post and the opponent once again took control of the game, I winced. And when the Blazers had to make a miraculous comeback to win—with the “two-headed center” ending up with 5 unspent fouls—I felt sick.
Please, Nate: re-think your “avoid fouling out both centers at all costs” policy. That’s NOT the worst eventuality: LOSING GAMES IS!
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Apr 8, 2009 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And another point not yet made, though more controversial
As you point out hurryup09, our typical play in the foul-problem case is to bring in our third-string power-forward Channing Frye to play the post. Missing in this entire scenario is our third-string center Shavlik Randolf. Obviously, this guy is not the all-around player Frye is, but where is it written you put your best available all-around player in the game. Good coaching in this league is replete with cases of putting otherwise journeymen role players into specific roles on the floor, and Randolph’s role in subbing for Pryz and Oden would not be to score but to keep a body on the opposing big man and clog up the defensive paint. Granted, we’re not talking an optimal situation here — optimal, as you point out, is playing the two main guys and using up their fouls when necessary. But clearly, putting our third string power forward in to play third-string center is not working. Randolph is at least an alternative worth trying for a couple of minutes at a time. He is our 12th man — if we’re not going to use him, there are lots of other poor stepsisters around the league and the globe to bring aboard.
by blazerwizard on Apr 8, 2009 6:49 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Interesting
Shav does seem a bit more at home banging than Frye does. Frye is taller, but he’s a shooting guard in a post player’s body. It’s not that he lacks heart; he really does try to bang in there. It’s just not in him.
Of course, some of us hoped the Blazers would keep a third true center on the roster—Stephen Hill—this season. I was among those Hill advocates. My thinking at the time was mainly that he would be injury insurance in the event either GO or Przy got hurt. Given that both guys are currently healthy, I don’t feel Hill is needed. The real problem is Nate’s apparent phobia regarding EVER finding himself in crunch time with both his centers fouled out.
Granted, if Nate let his centers play with fouls, eventually a night would come when both guys would foul out by crunch time. On that night, if the game were close, the Blazers would quite likely lose. But that eventuality would only occur once in a blue moon. Nate’s current policy—benching his bigs at the first hint of foul trouble and bringing in Frye—is resulting in losses or near-losses on a regular basis.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Apr 8, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And by the way, hurryup09,
. . . after reading your various comments in this post I now hereby bestow upon you my unofficial Blazers Edge Award — Master of the Analogy!
Mind you, you receive no benefit for the Analogy Award, merely the obligation to keep coming up with more of them.
by blazerwizard on Apr 8, 2009 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs























