Them's Fighting Words!! (update *already a fanshot*)
by mxpx5678 on Apr 3, 2009 9:40 AM PDT
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PrintSorry, I didn't see that this was posted as a fanshot already. Please comment in the fanshot.
http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/4/3/821236/ric-bucher-thinks-okc-has-a
But mine does have a poll, haha.
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So Ric Bucher in his infinite wisdom now thinks the "Thunder" have a brighter future than out Portland Trailblazers. He also says we don't have a superstar player.
"Ric Bucher left town convinced the Thunder has a bright future after spending a few days in Oklahoma City for an upcoming story in ESPN the Magazine. So bright, Bucher said the Thunder could be a more formidable playoff threat than Portland a few seasons from now. 'There are key components to building a championship team,' Bucher said. 'You have to have a superstar who dominates his position. And you have to have a point guard.' Bucher was referring to Kevin Durant, the reigning Rookie of the Year who is fourth in the league in scoring. The point guard is rookie Russell Westbrook, one of a handful of players close to averaging 15 points, five assists and five rebounds. 'Kevin can dominate his position to command a double team to try and stop him,' Bucher said. 'As good as Brandon Roy is, there are certain matchups you don't have to double him hard. The Thunder isn't at the same place right now. But their flexibility, their room to grow, is better. And they already have some key parts you have to have. Portland doesn't have that point guard, yet. And in my mind they don't have that superstar player.'"
This was in today's roundup on TrueHoop. So somehow a team that has won 21 games has a brighter future than a team that has won 48, while being younger....
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Why is Weaver in the D-League?
I can’t figure that out. He was doing well for them, wasn’t he? – Elgin
Blazers win BDL 2 on 2 tournament!
Skeets: i’ll close it down now … congrats. you bastards
Minus that no-look pass right to the ref.
by teenagemutantninjabayless on Apr 3, 2009 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh. Well, that sounds unfortunate.
Blazers win BDL 2 on 2 tournament!
Skeets: i’ll close it down now … congrats. you bastards
My buddy, who's the biggest cougar fan in the world
loves it when I remind him of that. It was hilarious. His reaction after the pass was so guilty it makes me smile just thinking of it.
(Though I have to say, I do love Weaver and was yelling at the tv every time the Blazers used one of those early 2nd round picks on Centers from Turkey and Antarctica instead of taking an awesome defensive-minded PG. In retrospect, I’m fine with Batum…)
by teenagemutantninjabayless on Apr 3, 2009 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions
It's official!
After years of excessive use of Dep hair gel, the protective epidermis has given way, the skull penetrated, and the brain sac broken through. As a result, brain damaged has set in… and poor Ric Bucher has gone mad.
Hurray, Dep!
Give the man his "M"!!!
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Apr 3, 2009 9:54 AM PDT reply actions
It's possible.
We, you, they, Bucher, everybody can sorta see Portland’s destiny. Most of the ingredients are already being combined. Take a sniff in the bowl and you can probably tell what it will be when it is cooked.
In OKC, the ingredients are still sitting on the shelf. As you peruse them, it is easy to imagine what extraordinary conconctions they will yield. However, there is also a greater likelihood that somebody will throw a handful of grub worms into the bowl, blend on the “frappe” setting (I don’t know what that is, but your blender has it…check it out) and then burn it all in a hot skillet.
The cowards never started
The weak died along the way
Only the strong survived
They were the Trailblazers
He's not being crazy.
Salary cap flexibility is the primary reason ESPN the Magazine writer Ric Bucher sides with Oklahoma City over Portland a few seasons from now.
The Thunder are in a magical place right now. It’s the place we had hoped the Blazers would be in next year with the ability to offer a free agent max money and a shot at a title.
Conceivably they could add a guy like Milsap and a top 3 draft pick. The Thunder are going to be ridiculously talented, especially if they keep surrounding Kevin Durant with good defenders. Worst case scenario, they land Paul Millsap and Blake Griffin and we have a bitter rivalry for the next ten years.
When I came here (in 2004), guys like Nick (Van Exel) and Damon, they were a breath of fresh air for me,'' Przybilla
by Nick Van Excellent on Apr 3, 2009 10:01 AM PDT reply actions
except that they're majority owner is broke!!!
Give the man his "M"!!!
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Apr 3, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
also...
we don’t need to take risks (i.e. use the draft) to find the rest of our roster… we already have most of it (if not all!).
Give the man his "M"!!!
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Apr 3, 2009 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah.
Portland on the other hand is a huge free agent destination.
When I came here (in 2004), guys like Nick (Van Exel) and Damon, they were a breath of fresh air for me,'' Przybilla
by Nick Van Excellent on Apr 4, 2009 4:16 AM PDT up reply actions
That's absurd.
I agree that OKC has a promising future. I think both Durant and Westbrook have very bright futures. But that’s where I stop. Few people have shown the ability to stop Roy. LaMarcus is at another lever right now. How would OKC’s big two stop our big two? Roy/LMA >!>!> Durant/Westbrook. I would take that even farther and say dominant 2/dominant 4 >!>!> dominant 1/dominant 3. How many titles do 1/3’s win? 2/4 or 2/5 ALWAYS win… and we have both the 4 and the 5.
Silly Bucher.
Has our team already reached a point of buildup where national “experts” are ready to tear us down? We haven’t even gotten anywhere yet, and we’re already being bullseyed?
Give the man his "M"!!!
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Apr 3, 2009 10:01 AM PDT reply actions
I think
The best scenario to think of when you are talking like that is would you do the following trade,
Durant and Westbrook plus a draft pick for Lamarcus and Roy?
I wouldn’t even consider it, but on paper it is a little closer than i was expecting it to look.
I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden
NBA champions leaders
In the last 30ish years, men at these positions were the best player on their titles team.
Center 4, PG 3, SG 2, PF 2, SF 1. Expect Lebron to bump the SF number up to 2 eventually.
Second and third best players on their team.
SG 5, Center 4, SF 3, PG 2, PF 2.
PF 6, SG 4, SF 4, Center 3, PG 2.
So the best leaders in the NBA have been Centers. The best 2nd guys have been SGs, The best 3rd options have been Power Forwards. Interestingly enough, we have Oden/Roy/LMA. (Granted, Roy might be the leader on this team over Oden, even in a couple years.)
Overall, Centers and Shooting guards have been a top 3 player on a title team 11 times. Power forwards have been a top 3 10 times. Small forwards 8 and Point guards 7. I’ll stick with what we got, thanks sir.
THANK YOU
I preach exactly what you said over and over and over again. I have a friend from Seattle and we argue every day about the merits of Durant and I always tell him that you don’t build championship teams around small forward wing scorers. You just don’t. I’m curious, who was the one small forward you picked out? Looking back since Jordan, no team has won a championship without a dominating big man or point guard. Lakers, Spurs, Pistons, Heat, Celtics. Go back when Jordan retired and the Rockets won with the Dream in the middle. Even further back the Pistons won with Isaiah Thomas. This could go on.
Larry Bird
Fanshot I did a bit back. You can argue some of the 3rd stars, who was the true star, etc. But it’s close enough. Also keep in mind that of those 7 PGs, Magic counts twice since he was 2nd and 1st in different years.
http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/3/12/795352/what-makes-a-winning-team
Keep in mind that Bird was one of those freak SFs who grabbed a ton of boards (10 per game during his career) and dished out a lot of dimes (6.3 a game for his career.) Durant is not that kind of Small Forward. The only one who is… is Lebron James.
It seems like a lot of championship teams have a lockdown defender at the 3
It makes sense that it is very important to have a good defender at SF, since a SF can effectively defend against both guards and other SFs. You could instead try to plug in a defensive role player at the 1 or 2, but they just would not have the length and versatility of a defensive SF. This could end up being a significant problem for teams trying to build around Durant, since he is an awful defender and has fared poorly whenever he has tried to be a shooting guard.
by trk on Apr 3, 2009 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Cavs will only win if
they get the Miami in the finals treatment from the refs. TWEET…foul (2 shots) somebody coughed on lebron knocking him to the floor. The Cavs are good but their D has lapses and they’ll need homecourt throughout to have a chance.
Right now, Roy > Durant.
Roy puts up nearly as many points on a pace-adjusted basis, is a far better passer, and plays defense. Durant has the edge on the boards—but given the excellent rebounding from the Blazer bigs, I ain’t complaining.
I expect Durant to be, over his career, a better volume scorer than Roy is—he’s got far more offensive moves. But I don’t expect the gap to be much.
Will KD become a good defender? He could; he’s not there yet. Too early to write him off; just as it was (and is) too early to write guys like Bayless or Webster off after only one or two seasons.
Even if Greg Oden were to never touch a basketball again (Bucher, in his analysis, appears to have written off Oden completely, or else forgotten he exists); LMA + Prz is better than then the OK frontline in spades. I’m not entirely sure where these Paul Millsap rumors are coming from—why exactly would the Jazz trade Millsap to a division rival (and what would they get back in return?)
Westbrook is a stud. The strength of Bucher’s argument is that so far, the Blazers have failed to develop a quality PG, despite numerous attempts (Telfair, Jack, Sergio, Bayless)—some of which didn’t pan out, and some of which are still works in progress.
The Thunda are where the Blazers were two years ago—a growing team with a budding superstar and a lot of promise. They may fulfill that promise. Or not—lots of teams have had Great Young Talent, and found themselves stuck in the lottery as said talent failed to develop.
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
by EngineerScotty on Apr 3, 2009 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Is Green part of the Thunder's future?
He’s a natural SF, playing out of position at power forward. He’s done reasonably well there; and can cause mismatch problems with his ability to hit the 3—but is he a long term fit?
He’s probably too good to come off the bench, and if the Thunder get an upgrade in the post (a Blake Griffin, should they win the lottery) I could see Green traded elsewhere.
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
by EngineerScotty on Apr 3, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
How
would they win the lottery? they are like 6th worst, they dont have a great chance.
I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden
We did it two years ago with the 6th best record
Lightning can strike twice.
BTW—we had a 5.3% of winning that year. Hollinger thinks we have 5.9% chance of winning the NBA title (or his projections say that, at least…)
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
by EngineerScotty on Apr 3, 2009 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions
He's taller than Elton Brand, Carlos Boozer, Emeka Okafur
and a bunch of other dudes playing PF and center, plus he can jump over all of them.
why are you surprised by his thoughts on Roy?
Face it, the kid just doesn’t have “it.” That’s why he came up short in roty voting his rookie season, why he’s never been invited to the all star game, and why he continues to drag his team down in crunch time. Oh wait… everything I just said is wrong and so is Bucher.
PLAYOFFS... sounds good, don't it?
by SabonisBonus on Apr 3, 2009 10:27 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
blame Rice!
Blazers win BDL 2 on 2 tournament!
Skeets: i’ll close it down now … congrats. you bastards
If Blazing Saddles is the best comedy ever
then Young Frankenstein is 2nd best.
You still don't get the joke
and even if you were right you are wrong because you forgot the umlaut.
You can’t win. I am the oldest of three brothers.
I have never liked this guy...
Now it all makes sense to me. The guy is entitled to his own opinions but come on, in no way shape or form would I say Durant is a superstar in the league right now. What does he do score a lot, well where has that got them? Ohh thats right 11th in the West, and furthermore Brandon Roy is 7th in the league in PPG only 3 spots behind Durant. The rest of the stats are pretty much even but it is the little things that Brandon does that has obviously been overlook by little Ricky here. When it is crunch time down the stretch who do you want with the ball? Uhh seeing how many close games we have one I would have to Say Brandon. He has a calming effect on the rest of the team and his leadership can never be overlooked.
I don’t even know why I am getting all worked up by this cause Blazer fans that have followed them the last couple years know that with all the talent we have there is no question who is going to be the better team. This should be no suprise to anyone that an article like this has come out, people love to hate on the Blazers, let them, we don’t want trash like this guy on our side anyways. Ohh by the way Rick who, on the Thunder is going to be gaurding Oden in the next couple of years and in the playoffs? Yeah thought so.
Not to mention...
that Roy is currently #7 in PER and considered by many to be in the top 10 for MVP.
Give the man his "M"!!!
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Apr 3, 2009 10:49 AM PDT reply actions
Repost: And if KD should opt to leave them in 2011 to play for [insert nicer market here], all else is academic
Acquiring Griffin in the draft would be great for them (local boy, good talent), but a) it’s far from certain that they will land him since their record while bad is “too good” this year, and b) that creates more roster imbalances with who plays PF (Green or Griffin) or moving Durant back to shooting guard which is demonstrably not his position. Thabo was a nice addition, but is levels and levels below Roy. They got next to nothing out of Wilcox and Smith since their owners didn’t want to take the flyer on Chandler with his bigger contract and turf toe. Leaving them without a franchise center. And Bayless can be on just the same level of "good combo guard" as Westbrook in the future.
As for their assets, they are good but not that amazing:
- Enough cap space for one max. free agent and a bit more (about $38 million in committed salary), which might be their most valuable asset. But who is out there: Boozer? AI? Marion? Hedo makes no sense on a team with Durant and Green. And are their owners willing to spend?
- Might trade Earl Watson if Livingston is healthy again
- 2009 first round draft pick from San Antonio (top 15 protected in the 2009 Draft, top 10 protected in 2010, top 5 protected in 2011, top 3 protected in 2012, and unprotected in the 2013 Draft).
- 2009 first round draft pick from Denver (top 20 protected in the 2009 Draft, top 15 protected in 2010, top 10 protected in 2011, top 5 protected in 2012, top 3 protected in 2013, top 1 protected in 2014 and unprotected in the 2015 Draft).
- 2010 first round draft pick from Phoenix
The OWE their worst 2009 first round pick to Chicago for the Sefolosha trade. Likely it will be the San Antonio one. The also owe their own 2009 second round pick to Denver.
I see them as a playoff team, but their question marks are bigger than ours.
I would draft Harden if I were OKC.
That would create an unbelievable lineup for years to come. On second thought, I hope they don’t draft Harden…
Tony Luftman Is an Animatronic Robot created by Cyberdyne Industries for the purpose of the destruction of the entire human race, no one shall be spared.
This load of crap from Ric Butcher reminds me of...
The many discussions that we have had regarding potential vs potential realized.
OKC Plunder = Potential
Blazers = Potential Realized!!!
Blazer's Edge Ambassador to The Dream Shake Blog
LMA - Putting the POWER in POWER FORWARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LMA Rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I <3 LMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
36:12 Mins, 11-16 FGs, 7-8 FTs, +22, 3 Off, 12 Rebs, 2 Ast, 3 Blks, 29 Points!!! LMA vs Suns 3-26-09
34:30 Mins, 10-16 FGs, 6-6 FTs, +27, 1 Off, 5 Rebs, 2 Ast, 1 Blk, 26 Points!!! LMA vs Jizz 3-31-09
They look they have a nice future...but this is what you write about when your team has 21 wins
Let’s take care of business tonight and then focus on beating out Denver and Utah for the division title. We’ll worry about 2013 when it rolls around.
But if the Blazers need extra motivation tonight…maybe tape the article to Roy’s locker before the game?
How dare you forget the great Nenad Krstic and Malik Rose duo
But yeah, sending out Smith and Wilcox set them back in that department. Collison is the only really good guy left, and Green is a SF/PF tweener. They need to find a quality big man in draft or free agency.
They have a 1st round PF called D.J. White who might be a player!
After missing most of the year to have a tumor removed from his jaw he has started playing in Tulsa. Some people are quite high on him… although he isn’t a sure thing he is a smart physical player and adds to a list of good young assets that they have stockpiled. Think they still need another big man.
Although landing a healthy Chandler would have made better use out of Smith and Wilcox I think moving them had to do with moving forward, once they had basically traded them it makes it awkward to take them back since they are obviously not in the plans.
by QuebecBlzrFan on Apr 3, 2009 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions
He's just sucking up to the local media
He would say the exact opposite if asked the same question by the Oregonian.
Tony Luftman Is an Animatronic Robot created by Cyberdyne Industries for the purpose of the destruction of the entire human race, no one shall be spared.
Bucher=Idiot
Don’t listen to this moron. We are about five steps ahead of the Thunder, and it is going to take more than a couple seasons for them to catch up. No one can predict the future and they could end up being better but as of now we have more talent, a better record and a brighter future. Roy is a two time all star and recognized as the second best SG in the league, but clearly not a super star because he doesn’t hog the ball night in night out. Bucher get real, you see two games and make a snap decision about the future of two complex franchises? This guy should be taken behind the shed with the sonics, I mean thunder and given a whooping just like the Suns, Lakers, Spurs etc.
by The Natural ala Mode on Apr 3, 2009 2:52 PM PDT reply actions
I guess
if you really count Wade as a 2 he is one step of Roy at this point. I think of him more as a 3.
by The Natural ala Mode on Apr 3, 2009 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions
You would take Wade over Kobe? I still think that Roy has advantages over Wade, he is much more of a team guy and isn’t about individual accolades.
I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden
FWIW, Roy has generally outplayed Wade
in head-to-head games the past couple of years.
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
by EngineerScotty on Apr 3, 2009 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Needs a Superstar to dominate their position.... How about 2?
From the post a few days ago “How good are these Blazers” I really like what self-proclaimed In the closet Stat Geek usmcr3049 had to say:
"I took a look at the Teams 1-7 in the west, (I left off the Mavs because I hate them, and don’t want to give them any air time) what I was looking for was one stat, PER, and how each teams players ranked using the stat. I calculated the average per for the Western confrence, broke down by position, and I calculated the PER of each western confrence bench to see if Portland really does stack up, and who has the best bench in the league, (according to PER). Here are the results!
Starters:
(Blazer player PER – Avg of west top 7 = difference)
PG: Blake 14.78 – Avg 18.96 = -4.18. Blake is above Brooks, (13.23) and Fisher, (12.52)
SG: Roy 24.32 – Avg 17.39 = 6.93. Roy is under only Kobe, (24.50).
SF: Batum 13.17 – Avg 14.32 = -1.15. Batum is above Battier, (10.44), Peja, (13.01), and Mason, (11.81)
PF: LMA 19.25 – Avg 18.21 = 1.04. LMA is under only Duncan, (24.80). Yes I listed him at PF, deal with it.
C: Joel 15.34 – Avg 18.00 = -2.66. Joel is above only T. Chanlder, (13.44).
If you moved Duncan to Center than LMA would be the highest rated PF of the top 7 in the west according to Per.
If you put Greg as the starting Center his PER of 18.19 would place him 5th behind, Duncan, Yao, Gasol, and Nene in that order.
It is pretty easy to see that some players like Joel and Battier are ranked lower than they should because PER don’t take defense into effect accept for blocks and steals, and in Joel’s case it doesn’t take Rebounding into effect enough.
As for the benches of the top 7 in the West, the overall avg bench PER is 13.14. But the best and worst benches might suprise you. Here they are in order of best to worst.
Denver – 15.15 (2.01 from avg)
Portland – 15.02 (1.88 from avg)
Jazz – 14.1 (.96 from avg)
Houston 14.1 (.96 from avg)
Spurs 12.38 (-.76 from avg)
Hornets 11.57 (-1.57 from avg)
Lakers 10.98 (-2.16 from avg)"
So…. Aside from Kobe (at SG) and Tim Duncan (at PF) the Trail Blazers have the BEST shooting guard and power forward among the Wests top contenders. Also, Portland has the second best bench. It would be atrocious to see where Oklahoma City actually ranked on this list.
Next year LaMarcus Aldridge will finally get his due now that he is consistently taking it to the rack early in often in games… and Brandon Roy is a full-fledged super star already as he is two highlight clips of the TNT NBA Playoffs preview commercial and two-time All-Star and former Rookie of the Year, Roy is definitely being noticed around the country.
Bucher is an idiot. Kevin Durant hasn’t shown to be anything but a Carmelo Anthony. Granted, Carmelo Anthony is a great shooter and effective scorer and has a long frame, but similar to Durant, Anthony isn’t a mutlifaceted dominator like a Kobe or LBJ, both of whom do a lot more than scoring. Who else comes to mind when you think of doing a lot more than scoring??? B-mother-grabbin’-Roy that’s who! Passing, Leading, Defending, controlling the pace of the game, being a stone-cold closer… yeah that is a lot more B-Roy than Durant.
The Blazers also have two little secret weapons named KP and Nate. KP’s magical GM touch teamed with Nate & his crew’s knack for setting the right culture and developing talented youth is an unsung big advantage that the Blazers still have over OKC… oh I also failed to mention Uncle Money Bags Paul Allen as our resource man. Check Mate!
Bucher is just doing that article because the hype-machine wanted to get some more press out there on the next Grant Hill…. hello Kevin Durant.
Kevin Durant drinks Sprite.
by Portland Dynasty on Apr 3, 2009 3:43 PM PDT reply actions
Head Bop
No wait, that’s in Memphis these days.
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
by EngineerScotty on Apr 3, 2009 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Violet Palmer No-Call
Blazers win BDL 2 on 2 tournament!
Skeets: i’ll close it down now … congrats. you bastards
"(the Thunders) flexibility, their room to grow is much better".... ahem, Horse Puckey!
I wanted to pick on this line as it is clear that Bucher hasn’t spent near as much time playing around with the potential line-ups of the Blazers roster which really couldn’t get more flexible…
Steve Blake — PG or SG
Brandon Roy — PG or SG or SF
Rudy Fernandez — SG or SF
Martell Webster — SF or SG
Nic Batum — SF or SG or PF
Travis Outlaw — PF or SF or SG
LaMarcus Aldridge — PF or FC
Channing Frye — PF or FC
Jerryd Bayless — PG or SG
So much “ideal” size on the Blazers roster, just simply full of “prototype” built players: Two 7’0+ centers, 6’11" long and athletic 4’s who spread the court, wings that range 6’5" to 6’9" and all are extrememly long, 6’6" starting gaurd who plays the 1 thru 3, all other guards are 6’3", taller than the average.
by Portland Dynasty on Apr 3, 2009 3:53 PM PDT reply actions
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