The [Insert Adjective Here] Reffing
by Dave on Apr 23, 2009 12:01 AM PDT
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PrintBelieve me, I realize that the adjective that most of you would like to insert here rhymes, just without the "R". If it weren't against site rules I'd have thrown it in myself just for the humor quotient.
Following both games in this series we've heard a litany of complaints from the losing side regarding officiating. Some of that is expected. Referees are the fans' favorite out when their team falls short, edging out even the wildly popular head coach muckraking. With the crucible fired hotter for the post-season the impulse will naturally intensify.
I will not completely refute the various arguments here. The way the games have been called have had an affect on each. I personally have not seen any kind of surprising bias one way or another but ugly is in the eye of the beholder.
However, amongst our complaints we need to remember something important about this series:
It's a devilishly hard matchup to officiate.
Were I a ref, I'd want any series besides this one. You know it's going to be a long night trying to arbitrate between these two teams...a job verging on the impossible.
Consider that Houston and Portland are playing physical basketball with each other. You could probably call fouls based on icy glares alone.
Consider also that both teams play at a slow pace. You can count the number of non-halfcourt possessions for both teams in the first two games and still have a finger or two left to sip tea with. You might think a running game would be more difficult to officiate, but all you need to call that sort of affair is to be in reasonably good shape. Transition plays involve 2-4 players at most. They happen quickly but you have a clear field of view and contact is pretty well defined in most cases. When you've got ten guys jamming the court every possession, bumping every cutter, jostling on every screen, fighting for every inch of post space...there's no way to blow the whistle consistently. You have your choice of ten fouls or none every trip down the court. With that kind of range you're going to see some variance.
Given the combination of grinding and passion, I'm actually surprised the referees have done as good of a job as they have.
During the three regular-season games these two teams played the Blazers shot 17, 21, and 24 foul shots for an average of 20.7 per game. Portland attempted 24.2 free throws per game on average, so they were well below their usual mark against Houston.
During those same games the Rockets shot 23, 22, and 26 for an average of 24 foul shots per game. Houston attempted 23.2 free throws on average, so they were slightly above their usual mark when facing Portland.
Both teams held opponents to 21-ish free throws per game in the regular season, the Rockets being 2nd in the league in that category, the Blazers 4th. Some of this was due to pace, but for the most part you could say that neither team gave up free points much.
In the first two games of this series Portland attempted 16 and 36 foul shots. That averages out to 26, 2 more than the Blazers' season average and 5+ more than the Blazers' average against the Rockets. It's impossible to escape the night-and-day difference between those two numbers, however. 16 was well below any reasonable expectation, 36 well above. The average doesn't tell the story here. The Blazers got destroyed in Game 1 because, among other things, they couldn't draw foul shots. The Blazers won Game 2 because, among other things, they drew an enormous number of foul shots.
In the first two games the Rockets have attempted 28 and 32 foul shots, averaging to 30 per game. This is almost 7 above their season average and 6 above their average against the Blazers. Their free throw production has been more consistent. It's also been consistently higher (so far, anyway) than their normal production.
I don't think it's possible to come to a hard and fast conclusion based on what we've seen so far other than overall the Rockets have done better than the Blazers in this area. They've had more free throws and been farther above their averages both on the season and against the opponent. Make of that what you will. Blazer fans will probably go, "Aha!" even as Rockets fans say, "Of course." Either way, we'll need to see more games before we can argue about it intelligently or even know for sure how it's factoring in to victory or defeat.
As you consider, especially as a Blazer fan, I would suggest that the Rockets have a few natural advantages that are going to tip things their way.
Houston has the better defensive reputation and execution. Most fouls are called on the defensive end. The refs are going to accept some things from the Rockets as a matter of course that they wouldn't expect, and thus wouldn't let slide, from the Blazers. When Ron Artest bumps somebody it could be a foul but it could also be because he's a huge, gifted defender. When Nicolas Batum does the same thing it's probably just a foul.
Houston also has more experience in the league and in the recent playoffs. The officials have seen them before. They've seen them in this situation before. Nobody knows how the Blazers are going to react. That uncertainty opens a window of doubt. That window of doubt is always bad when whistle-blowing decisions are being made.
When there's doubt (and there's plenty in this series because of the reasons we discussed above) the officials will tend to give the benefit of that doubt to the player with the most star value on the floor. In this case that's Yao Ming by a mile. Part of it is the long-standing star system, which has eased over the past few years but isn't gone yet and tends to return strongly in the playoffs. Part of it is just human nature. If the Blazers lose and Brandon Roy fouls out--let alone Joel Przybilla or Greg Oden--nobody makes a peep. It just doesn't get mentioned except maybe as a small game-flow comment in the highlight packages for the night. If Yao Ming fouls out and the Rockets go on to lose it's the topic of discussion whenever somebody mentions the game. Half the audience is up in arms. Commentators are debating whether it should have gone down that way. It's unexpected, and therefore more noteworthy. So...if you do your job one way the complaints and negative notice are limited. If you do your job another way people are talking about you for days--perhaps months if it's perceived to cost a team the series--and the negative notice is prominent. After a while that's not even going to be a decision for you. Doing it the less controversial way is simply going to become the way it's done.
Note that this isn't going to make an official ignore a clear foul or change a decision that's otherwise obvious. Nobody is cheating here or fixing games. However the wiggle-room decisions are simply more likely to tip the Rockets' way for all of these reasons and Portland fans and players have got to expect that. In a couple years hopefully it's different for the Blazers, as they will be more established and have more star power. For now, you just have to shrug your shoulders and say, "This is the NBA."
Despite this, the Blazers need not concede the officiating battle to the Rockets. Remember we said that these factors only play in when there's doubt. The Blazers must take it upon themselves to leave as little doubt as possible. The one truth that trumps all of these by a mile is that the clearest and most frequently whistled infractions come from penetration. Almost always the team that gets inside the most aggressively and quickly will get the benefit of the calls.
Houston has a couple guys who can take the ball off the dribble but for the most part they're a post-and-kick team. Their offense runs best through Yao and his shooting sidekicks. Neither option maximizes charity tosses.
The Blazers, on the other hand, prosper when Brandon Roy, LaMarcus Aldridge, and sometimes Travis Outlaw handle the ball. All are capable of getting it inside, even though that's not always their priority. You don't have to change Portland's offense to penetrate, you just have to play it more aggressively.
The Blazers need to fix this firmly in their minds. The only way to overcome whatever handicap may exist is to aggressively get the ball in the paint and force the referees to make calls in your favor. That means absorbing contact. That means finishing at the rim instead of pulling up short. That means being persistent even if things don't work out in your favor the first time.
If the Blazers become, as Charles Barkley has so graciously termed them, "A nice little jump-shooting team" then they are going to get a nice little round of applause for their effort as they end up losing 4-1 or 4-2 in this series. If the Blazers are serious about winning in Houston, let alone winning 4 of 7, they must not leave their fate in anyone's hands but their own. That includes the guys in grey. And that means stepping up their foul-drawing game to a different level.
If the outcome isn't favorable people will no doubt still complain. But honestly you might as well complain about the rain falling. It is what it is. If you're going to go out in it, you better be prepared. If you don't bring an umbrella then it's no use griping about your dripping forehead.
In other words, if people are justified in their complaints and officiating really does play the deciding role in this series, whose fault will that really be?
--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)
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I hate playoff officiating
Why is it so blatantly different? As Jaynes said on Courtside, it’s like the whole regular season is thrown out and the players must learn an entirely different set of rules. He speculated that it’s to protect players from being ejected in high-stakes playoff games. But that’s no excuse. A foul is a foul.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
I haven't seen a massive disparity in the Rockets' favor
What I HAVE seen is that when Yao, standing in the restricted area, jumps in the air to defend a penetrating Blazer and makes contact, nothing is called. That’s just ridiculous; that play is ALWAYS a foul. You’re not allowed to stand under there MOTIONLESS and impede the penetrator, much less jump in the air. Come on!
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
To be fair to Yao
He does have the same issue that lumbering big guys in the vein of Shaq and Oden have too. He gets bumped and pushed a lot harder than other players at the center position, and because he’s bigger than most of the others, a lot of things that would be fouls if done to other players, don’t get called.
That being said, he does get away with a few things that non-star players would get called for. But how is that different for other star players? It’s hard for us Blazer fans to have proper perspective on this, but Brandon is now starting to get the star treatment from refs. He’s not getting it to as big an extent yet, but he only really became a superstar this season. You’ll see a big change in the way he’s called next year.
Yes! Yes! In the face!
Da refs sux
Oden MAD
"The brownies,'' Fernandez said after the game. "The brownies are good for me to make three-points.''
This is a good point about game 2.
foul/free throw totals – skewed by final 39 seconds
one minor point…
Portland was called for more fouls (and Houston shot more free throws) for the entire game, except for the last 39 seconds, when Houston picked up 6 fouls while trying to prolong the game…
http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=290421022&period=4
Thus it’s a bit misleading when you look at the final box-score showing:
fouls: Hou 28, Por 26
Free throws attempted: Hous 32, Por 36.
Portland’s last 12 free throws came in the last 39 seconds
by jmerm on Apr 21, 2009 11:47 PM PDT reply reply actions actions 0 recs
"The brownies,'' Fernandez said after the game. "The brownies are good for me to make three-points.''
by Sabonis4Ever on Apr 23, 2009 12:27 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Exactly.
The fouls are being called preferentially for the Rockets. How many free throws did BRoy take in Game 1? You can say that he spent a large part of his time prone in the key, but I would remind you that the Rockets put him on his backside. That was not the results of a decision he made on the way to the hoop with the ball.
B-Roy: “Let’s see, it’s my first playof game and I would like to make a good impression. I am driving through the lane. So should I make a lay up, go to my left hand, do a reverse, pull up, dunk on Yao, fake and dish to the center, toss it to Rudy at the 3-pt line? Hmm, that floor looks real inviting. I think I’ll just plant my fanny down there and get some good rest.”
Maybe he was just having a sit-in with his fellow starters. Maybe the time they spent together on the floor was some form of mute protest.
How many And-1s did he not get on his way to 42 in Game 2?
How many fouls did our bigs get in Game 2? 5,5 and 6. And how many times did the Rockets “veteran move: grab a Blazer make him look like he is fouling me as I drag him one armed through the key” get seen correctly by the refs? 0.
I hope that this doesn’t get worse in Houston.
Watch DMKPDX's always excellent game videos
And you’ll see Yao constantly bump Roy on the drives and never get the and-1. Then Chuck Hayes blows on Roy the wrong way, and Roy gets the foul for the and-1.
My point is: not all fouls are equal. Getting LMA or our Centers out of the game is huge, tacking fouls on Chuck Hayes is not. So not only did their fouls all come in the last 39 seconds, but they came for their scrubs and bench players.
PS: for those game-extending fouls they use at the end of the game, why can’t we Chris Paul it? He’s famous for taking a ridiculous “shot” while being fouled at the end of games, netting 3 free throws instead of 2. If you get the ball inbounded to you and there’s a guy about to hack you, just jump and shoot after he fouls you.
OMG that foul on Hayes
was a complete non-foul. That was blatant.
It seems like they are protecting Yao at the expense of other post players that play for the Rockets. – elgin
Tonight felt like the day you open the mail and receive an acceptance letter to your dream school: the University of Playoffs. - Ben Golliver, Apr 15 2009
Great post
You should teach a course on basketball at a university.
The only reasonable thought I can muster after a loss due to “bad” calls is that you sometimes have to outplay the refs too.
It’s easy to blame outside forces for a loss. I felt especially robbed after game 1, with our guys never able to gain momentum or find our rhythm. We just have to find a way to do it without driving to the hoop and praying for a whistle (which we weren’t getting in game 1), no matter how much we feel that whistle was deserved.
Game 1 and Roy
I’m a huge Trail Blazer fan, but don’t let that skew your view of me because I try to be as unbiased as possible. But game was horribly refereed. People may argue that Portland settled for jump shots the whole game which is why the officiating was so lopsided…. But if you watch the first 7 minutes of the first quarter you will see Blazers driving to the hoop only to get hammered… And the officials swallowing their whistles like a python devouring a mouse. That set the tone of game 1 and deterred the Blazer players from executing the game plan which had been set.
My 2nd and most disgruntle point is, where is the Roy love???
Brandon Roy in route to 42 points only shot 12 free throws for the whole game. And he was all over the place, down the lane, mid range, long range. etc.
Yao Ming game one shot only 9 free throw attempts. But those all came off jump shots IN THE FIRST HALF. ( He only played a total of 24 minutes, 19 of which came in the first half)
My point is, Brandon has not got any of the calls an NBA player should, much less an all star. Stop choking on your whistle officials and call a foul on Yao. Brandon cant get hit more than he has the first 2 games in the paint, which is a good thing… Because I cant see how if this keeps up, David Stern doesn’t addresses the officiating bias.
by Parade in Portland! on Apr 23, 2009 1:28 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Very well stated
Its posts like these that will make a reader of this blog well after the Rockets kick the Blazers out of the series (hopefully ;) ).
Only a couple of points I want to touch on.
First, for a lot of the wiggle room Yao receives on the defensive end can better be termed as ‘a compromise reached over a career’ rather than ‘star power’. That is to say, he was out of position, and, as a result, in foul trouble a lot during his first years in the league. It may have been for a lack of star power, but more likely it was a result of just not knowing how to NOT foul. Over time, it seemed that he just learned what the refs would and wouldn’t call on him and adjusted to it. And for all the calls he doesn’t get called on him on the defensive end, you can point to all the fouls committed ON him on offense that are allowed to pass (which you did mention more eloquently than I could).
I just think its a unique situation that you just don’t see outside of Shaq and Yao.
The truth is you remember the officials a lot more on games in which you don’t win, and I do have gripes about the officials in Game 2. But I won’t let that take away from the fact that the Blazers came out with a great game plan that was carried out even better. I don’t think theres any shame in succumbing to that. Hopefully we find a way to counter.
PS. I could also write a book on why I think physical play in the playoffs is justified isn’t really a big jump. But I think my counterpoint would fall so short of the point made in the article, I’m not gonna embarrass myself.
I think Yao's treatment is magnified due to our experience with Oden
Oden gets called for contact fouls that Yao gets away with. In this series, you can directly compare how each player is being called differently. This isn’t to say Oden doesn’t commit deserved fouls, but seeing Oden get maliciously targeted by the officials this entire season has put a bitter taste in our mouths. All season, Oden has been called for the same fouls standing inside the paint while the guy with the ball barrels into him. Watching Yao commit similar contact without a foul being called this series is bubbling up that frustration of inconsistent treatment. I believe its naive to think that star power isn’t part of the equation. How much of a part is debatable, but it certainly plays a large role for a rookie like Oden.
I will say one thing about Yao. He gets away with that baseline spin and hook move. Yao used it twice this series and both times Oden got called for the foul. It just exemplifies Oden’s rookie season.
I fear for the day Paul Allen is no longer the owner of the Blazers.
He needs to reproduce soon so we have an heir in succession.
They're called reputation calls and Yao gets them like any other star. I noticed him hooking Oden too right in front of a ref. No whistle.
by BRoyInThe4th on Apr 23, 2009 6:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Yet after the hook Oden is called for the foul
I know I saw this at least once. Yao uses the baseline hook move almost everytime he is down there. It is very frustrating and I think most Blazer fans get especially frustrated because we received this same treatment from the refs for years whenever we played the “Shaq” Lakers. It feels eerily similar to the treatment Sabonis received. Another 2 plays that could be compare would be when Brandon drove straight through the key into Yao (who was inside the restricted area) and got no call. At the other end, Aaron Brooks drove straight into Oden who was basically in the same position and the whistle practically blew before the contact.
But Yao knows how to show that to the refs
He jujitsued Oden, hooking him and then holding onto his arm in an incriminating position and playing as if he was turned around, when he’s actually going with the force being applied and opening it up so the ref can see it. That was veteran schooling rookie, on that one.
I think a major area that Dave misses is not necessarily the consistency between teams, but the consistency between similar fouls. In Game 2 the first half was extremely loose, the second half—even before garbage—much tighter. And within the game you’d see ticky tack on the Blazers getting a foul, AND harder stuff not. And vice versa, reverse it, inverse it, whatever.
And most frustrating, I think it seems many agree, are the “ALWAYS supposed to get the call” calls that don’t get called. That topside handcheck foul is annoying, but it’s a rule and you never see players really complain about it because it’s the rule and they enforce it pretty well. Underneath, I suppose for Dave’s reasons it’s a much harder call, but in a lot of cases you can see the difference between contact and no contact.
Finally, I would agree in practice there’s nothing afoot here, but sadly it’s really not possible anymore to simply declare that there can’t be any fixing or shaving going on. That door is open now, and David Stern will have to wear that like a crown of thorns.
Points in the Paint
Game 1
HOU: 32 PTS
POR: 50 PTS
HOU: 28 FTA
POR: 16 FTA
Game 2
HOU: 28 PTS
POR: 40 PTS
HOU: 32 FTA
POR: 36 FTA, 26 FTA before the last 29 seconds of the game.
Houston is the jump-shooting team in this series. The Blazers have come up on the short end of the FTAs despite scoring in the paint. Rockets have primarily scored from the perimeter.
Two takeaways. One positive and one negative.
Positive, Rockets are due for a cool down shooting the ball. Negative, Blazers will unlikely buck the trend of a huge FTA disparity despite scoring more points in the paint on the road.
Last note. Some fans were a bit peeved about Game 1, particularly free throw attempts in the 1st half. Blazers had only 3 FTA with over 30 points in the paint. I think the complaint has merit, but I don’t think it ultimately affected the outcome.
I fear for the day Paul Allen is no longer the owner of the Blazers.
He needs to reproduce soon so we have an heir in succession.
this is exactly the stat summary we need
does anyone know where one could find points in the paint season averages? I’d like to see how well points in the paint correlates with FT attempts.
Even without that information, it just makes sense that more points in the paint should equal more FTA. It seems like the only way to explain the huge discrepancy in calls (without blaming bad reffing) is to say the Blazers foul so much in the paint that the Rockets end up going to the line instead of scoring. The problem with that is the Rockets are in the bottom half of the league in FTA on the season and the Blazers are a low foul team.
I agree with the positive note, the Rockets are going to have a cold streak eventually, especially Brooks. I disagree with the negative note, I think if the Blazers stay aggressive, continue to get into the paint, the calls will come even on the road (clearly it didn’t matter that the Rockets were on the road).
"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"
The Rockets have been penetrating too
Their points in the paint have been masked by the foul calls they get, which transfer those inside points (or at least potential inside points) from the points in the paint category to free throws.
I will say this about Portand’s forays inside. Many of them have ended up in jumpers instead of hard finishes (or attempted finishes) at the rim. Part of that is because Houston seems to have 2-3 defenders ready at the end of any drive and they’re big. Nevertheless, it’s hard to get the ref to blow the whistle when you stop and elevate instead of finishing strong.
—Dave
A big question
Why is it that basketball has to be played with only the refs in mind, instead of the fans and the love of the game itself? The refs should be incidental to the game and free throws should not dominate a performance—that’s bad basketball and ugly to watch. I prefer to see fewer free throws, less contact, more free-flowing offense.
I’m not saying you think this way, Dave, but rather asking your opinion on the question which is not rhetorical—I’m really curious why people would rather watch these incredible athletes shoot free throws all game. Teams that shoot a lot of free throws are not fun to watch. Would people really want to watch a game with 107 points scored on 107 free throws made if it meant that their team won?
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
no, no one wants to watch a parade to the free throw line.
When the refs call that many fouls, they are afraid that someone is going to yank someone’s head off. (Eat The Head!) They call the game tightly and the players quit grabbing and holding and close-dancing and etc.
That’s the idea anyway. In Tues night’s game they called a lot of fouls but that didn’t dissuade the players from continuing to foul each other. – Elgin
Tonight felt like the day you open the mail and receive an acceptance letter to your dream school: the University of Playoffs. - Ben Golliver, Apr 15 2009
I also think these stats might be skewed
because Yao often takes turn around hooks or jumpers that are just outside the paint, so technically (as far as I know, I could be totally wrong) they don’t count as “Points in the Paint,” yet getting him the ball in that position is just as effective. Do you see where I’m going with this?
BTW, to the topic creator. Excellent read. I honestly don’t see what all the fuss is about on the officiated. It’s the playoffs… they call them the same way every year. Everyone should be used to it by now.
I also can see where some of you are coming from on Yao (even though I don’t mind it because I’m a Rockets fan.) It sometimes seems like he turns around and barely starts to shoot and draws the foul with little contact.
I think what happens to Yao (and other star players) is that the refs KNOW they can knock down that shot when they want to – and worse, the defender knows they can as well. So when they see the defense nervous and scrambling to guard him they make a judgement call knowing that if the defender doesn’t foul Yao is going to make the shot. Thus, they are prone to blow that whistle right away.
It sucks on one end, but it’s the luxury that star players enjoy. If the other players don’t like it, then they should get the point where referees expect them to make shots. I bet like would be a lot better.
I have 1 issue with the lack of calling on Yao
When a defender leaves his feet and their is contact in the paint, it should be a foul on the defender almost 100% of the time. (Barring the driving player leading with an arm etc.)
Yao has left his feet and made contact numerous time with Roy without a call. Meanwhile Przybilla is not leaving his feet and being called for fouls. It doesn’t matter who initiates contact, if the defender leaves his feet, he is at fault. This is how it’s called for 95% of the big men in the nba. Please include Yao here.
I agree
Yoa should have fouled out of that game of at least finished with 5 fouls. I stated this in an earlier blog. They had no problem fouling out GO. I think this was a way to keep the game close by the officials. If Yoa’s gone the game is over for the Rockets.
You said:
“It’s the playoffs… they call them the same way every year. Everyone should be used to it by now.”
Problem for us is that we’re not used to it. We haven’t been in 6 years! Fans, players, all of us are like, wait what? They officiaie differently in the playoffs? Guess we need make sure and stay in the playoff’s so we get used to it :)
Man standing on toilet is high on pot.
This is the correct analysis not Dave's
You have to account for when the fouls were called. Houston was trying to foul becuase they were behind in game 2 and how many free throws did the Blazers have in game 1 before the “scrubs” were in? I would have to look it up, so I am not quoting.. but it seems that about 80% of our free throws in game 1 came in the 4th quarter. Also notice the difference in how the game was called once the game was out of hand and the “scrubs” were in in game 1. You cannot tell me that their is a conscious difference from the refs.
Our society believes in "Policital Correctness" in other words we tear down the best of our society and make them live according to the lowest common denominator. It won't be long until Harrison Bergeron is declaring himself emperor!
Yep!
Call me a troll, Dave, but this post, free of military metaphors, is a very sensitive, cogent, and compelling piece.
The portland trailblazers could lose a game by officiating, but they won’t lose the series because of it.
by Bandwagon Fan since 1972 on Apr 23, 2009 2:17 AM PDT reply actions
Great post.
When I came here (in 2004), guys like Nick (Van Exel) and Damon, they were a breath of fresh air for me,'' Przybilla
by Nick Van Excellent on Apr 23, 2009 2:37 AM PDT reply actions
it's just not something i'm going to dwell on
as i get no kicks out of prolonged righteous indignation. life is unfair. always has been, always will be. i leave the action to brandon and nate, and hope for the best.
ignacio
Or,
the battlefield is life, and it is in places explosive.
by Bandwagon Fan since 1972 on Apr 23, 2009 3:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Firesign Theatre fake restaurant ad
Bob’s Brazerko Lounge! Refuel yourself in an atmosphere of righteous indignation. – Elgin
Tonight felt like the day you open the mail and receive an acceptance letter to your dream school: the University of Playoffs. - Ben Golliver, Apr 15 2009
Why can't we have better refs?
I understand reffing is a tough job and no one is perfect. I’ve done it before – as a job. I tried really hard and think I did a pretty good job. But that was college intramurals.
This is the NBA. These guys are supposed to be the best refs in the world who have spent entire careers calling games. How is it that I can see a wrong call from the 300-level only to have my view confirmed by replay and echoed by the media across the country? These refs are closer than any of us and have multiple angles at every play. Why can’t they do a better job.
These guys SUCK AT THEIR JOBS. They aren’t volunteers. FIRE THEM and get some new refs.
This was a great post, Dave. If I were a coach, this is exactly the point I would make to my team. You can’t control the refs, so try as hard as you can to make that not matter. As a fan, I can take some comfort in knowing that refs will be refs and its not necessarily Oden’s fault that he is on the bench with foul trouble. Ce la vie.
However, I can’t accept your explanation for WHY our refs suck. WTF, David Stern. You see bad calls just like we do, but you have the power to do something about it. Get new refs. Get better training for them. Institute replay or a replay official. Do something. FIX THIS CRAP.
Get over it
Yes they suck, but if there was anyone better at it, they would be doing it. I’ve officiated many many high school/middle school games and its an unbelievably hard job. I can’t imagine doing NBA games which are about 100x faster than a high school game. Have you ever watched a game from courtside? It looks completely different than watching from further away, you can really see how much faster and physical the game really is.
Honestly people, if there were officials who could do a better job than they ones currently employed by the NBA, they would hire them.
No they wouldn't
They have the number of refs they want. They won’t hire more refs unless current refs quit or are fired.
There are no doubt people who CAN do it better that will never be given a chance to prove it.
Maybe we would need a ref who sits further away - like the head umpire in tennis
That stop and go by Roy is straight sick. I'm calling him "The Flu" from now on. - Wendell Maxey
I've wanted that for years. A ref who's above the action, who is on headset to the refs on the floor.
Of course, I also want a replay-ref in baseball, who does nothing but immediately reviews every call within seconds.
That's actually..
a really good idea. I’m a huge tennis fan too, I can’t believe I’ve never thought of that…
by Artest4Prez on Apr 23, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions
It's a lot easier in Baseball or Football
(Which is why I’m surprised they don’t handle replays better… they have lots of gaps in action to work with).
Basketball (and Hockey) is a lot harder. It’s free-flowing action. If the refs don’t call a foul, the play continues. And you can’t go back and change it afterwards, because it may have already changed strategy for the team who went on offense at the other end.
Replays can be used in a live NBA game, but under strict rules and only in certain conditions. For everything else, replays should simply be used to grade refs and help them learn from their mistakes.
Good stuff, Dave, thanks for another great article
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Rockets have lost in first round last 6 times!
This is the first time the Blazers have even been there. The refs are going to help the Rockets. Refs have always demanded that players “earn” respect. It “should not” be this way, but it is, it always has been and will not change. This was a part of the game even for the 90-92 teams.
What was really remarkable with this current Blazer team, is that they are rising above the reffing. We won game 2 despite the refs. There was a stretch in the 4th quarter that 4 consecutive bad calls went against the Blazers. That could have been an 8 point swing late in the 4th quarter and could have been devastating to the confidence of a young team. Instead, they fought through and won the game.
There is plenty of reason to complain even after a victory. In fact it is usually better to complain after a victory, so it doesn’t sound like sour grapes. Constant complaining is also how the game is played. Phil Jackson, Doc Rivers are very good at manipulating the refs from the sideline. This is how they extend the edge of the envelope. Lets say that your reputation gets you just 4 less calls than you should have, from 80 to 100 opponent attempts, thats a really small number. But that is also a 4 pt advantage to the opponent, assuming 50% efg%. In a close paly-off game that is huge.
Reffing made a huge difference in both games. The TONE of the game is set by the refs, again that is not how it “should be”, but it is. In Game 2, Scola was called early for aggressive defense in Game 2 and it changed the tone of how Scola played Aldridge. That was also a part of why Aldridge got going. But the refs will go back to allowing Scola to do what he is known to do; and LMA will have to rise above it.
There is a pecking order and bias will be applied according to the pecking order. Houston is higher than the Blazers. Lakers are higher than Houston. But in a Lakers/Cavs final, the Lakers are not higher than the Cavs. If we are to win, we will have to do it despite the refs! Oddly enough that is what it takes to earn their respect.
Bottom line:
- it is important to complain to the refs all year long (LMA should be doing it too) and right now, win, despite the refs!
-
newbie. dont know what i did to get second last line crossed out.
it was expected to be part of the post.
Why?
The refs have had 60 games to watch film and see how Oden plays. The whole “rookie treatment” issue is complete crap. If it takes these guys 2 years to learn how to referee a player (especially during playoffs) they aren’t fit to ref in this league.
it was funny, too!
Tonight felt like the day you open the mail and receive an acceptance letter to your dream school: the University of Playoffs. - Ben Golliver, Apr 15 2009
Re: crossed out text
You have to be careful using hyphens, because the computer reads hyphen—words—hyphen as the code for strikeout text. It happens all the time — not just with newbies. If you get in the habit of hitting the hyphen key twice to create a dash, you shouldn’t run into problems.
I really wish
the games would be called the same way in the playoffs and the regular season, and that every player was treated the same by the refs. Has a person working for the NBA ever actually admitted that the playoff are different? Or for that matter that stars get special treatment? I was just curious.
Great article Dave. Great comments as well.
Case in point:
—LeBron has never fouled out of a game. Never.
—Kobe has fouled out only 5 times in his career.
Hmmm? These guys are really so amazing that they never (rarely) commit 6 personal fouls in a game? Or are the refs keepin’ em in?
It's spelled "PRZYBILLA."
vanillathrillagorillaprzybilla
by RenoBlazerFan on Apr 23, 2009 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
how often does ANY guard foul out of a game? Or even a small forward? Since they aren't in the paint very often, they don't have the opportunities that a big man does.
Unless you’re Batum. Then you can foul out.
Diet. Dr. Pepper.
Wait wait wait....
Lebron not in the paint? Hes built with the speed of a pg and body of a PF. Hes always in the paint.. so ur not in the paint very often point is mood.
by Parade in Portland! on Apr 23, 2009 7:44 PM PDT up reply actions
There's no for us or against us, NBA refs are just bad
I’m sure there are one or two you never hear of who are competent but the simple fact is many NBA refs are not good at their jobs. At least what you and I think their jobs are supposed to be.
Another simple fact – that amazes me to no end – is that people are paying hundreds of dollars to go see games that could be rigged. They could be going to the WWE and not even know it. Stern promised accountability and transparency but gave us neither of those things. He hired some army sergeant who prompty faded into obscurity. Wow, thanks Dave…I can rest easy now. It’s why despite all the good stuff surrounding the Blazers I won’t go pay to go see an NBA game until I’m satisfied I’ll get my money’s worth from the product (there are other reasons including the obnoxious Ronald McDonald circus-like atmosphere at the arena and the constantly way-too-loud music/sound-effects but that’s another topic altogether.)
Disclaimer: I will, however, accept free tickets (but won’t buy concessions) ;)
All that said I will watch the NBA on TV because I get nearly every game with my cable package with the understanding that the refereeing is going to be bad. It might be bad in favor of my team, it might be bad against my team.
BUT IT WILL BE BAD.
And complaining about it while continuing to make a choice to watch the games is just silly and ridiculous and all the other bad adjectives you can think of.
Blazer Fan
fwiw if Portland didn't have a team the NBA would be an afterthought and not something I would watch at all
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Apr 23, 2009 6:57 AM PDT up reply actions
I've got it: complaining about NBA refereeing is like going for groceries at rush hour and then complaining about traffic
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Apr 23, 2009 6:59 AM PDT up reply actions
you couldn't be more right
Getting upset at an individual play or instance is understandable because it is in the heat of the moment. Complaining about the overall game or series is asinine.
...things go well I might be showing my O face...O...O...O...you know what I'm talking about.
I disagree
Referees will always miss calls, they are human. That doesn’t mean they are bad. As I’ve said before, I accused the refs of being “bad” 8 times this year. 5 against us (3 may have cost us the game), and 3 for us (1 may have given us the win.)
They’ve been bad 2/2 times in the playoffs. Why did they go from 10% failure to 100%? Simple. They change the way they ref in the playoffs. It’s ridiculous but it’s there. The refs aren’t missing calls. They are CHOOSING not to call fouls that they see, which is what is making them bad.
How did we get here???
I have some thoughts on how this refing situation evolved.
First, there’s the philosophy that the refs shouldn’t decide the outcome of the game; the players should. I think everybody agrees with that in a general sense. Things start to fall apart though because of the perception that refs calling a foul is them deciding the outcome – which is why they often let last second fouls go uncalled. In the playoffs that philosophy is stretched out over the course of the game since “in the playoffs every posession counts”.
The fallacy is, of course, that when a ref DECIDES to not call a foul they are still deciding the outcome of the game by giving an unfair advantage to the fouling team. But it’s simply in our nature to stronger criticize actions taken rather than those not taken.
The other thought points to why the refs job is tougher during the playoffs. I think it’s because veteran teams tend to make the playoffs and veterans know how to work the refs, particularly in how to draw fouls. The two most frustrating plays to watch are those where a “wiley” veteran flops on defense and draws a foul and the other (though more accepted) is when an offensive player creates contact in order to draw the foul.
Since the refs are working hard to not decide the outcome and they are as aware of players attempts to draw fouls (i.e. work the refs rather than work the game) they tend to call flops less (yea!) and also tend to not call fouls when the offensive player is trying to draw a foul.
I think it’s this not calling the attempts to draw a foul that results in the more physical play and also results in the frustrating arbitrary officiating that causes fans of the losing teams to feel they were jobbed by the refs who decided the outcome of the game – which is ironically exactly what they’re trying to avoid.
Spanish Main: The point of departure for enormous wealth in the form of gold, silver, gems, spices, hardwoods, hides, alley-oops, assists and three pointers.
Excellent point that the veterans are well-versed in working the system of refs and calls.
It's spelled "PRZYBILLA."
vanillathrillagorillaprzybilla
by RenoBlazerFan on Apr 23, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
If the site rules are impeding humor, there is something wrong with the site rules.
The [Insert Adjective Here] Reffing
Believe me, I realize that the adjective that most of you would like to insert here rhymes, just without the “R”. If it weren’t against site rules I’d have thrown it in myself just for the humor quotient.
Pontiff of the Pryz for Prez Posse...
Wait wAit wait....
?? lemmee see if I got this straight…..
Ref’s Blow right? :)
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out burns out farms and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
How many times?
“The Blazers need to fix this firmly in their minds. The only way to overcome whatever handicap may exist is to aggressively get the ball in the paint and force the referees to make calls in your favor. That means absorbing contact. That means finishing at the rim instead of pulling up short. That means being persistent even if things don’t work out in your favor the first time.”
How often do the Blazers have to do this? I remember them doing just exactly this 4 or 5 times in a row at the start of game 1. How many times does a post player have to be bumped off their shot? How many times does Roy have to get clobbered by Yao (or Artest or Battier)? How many shoves in the back on rebounds? How come it is OK to “thug it up” against a superiour Basketball team (and the blazers are the superiour Basketball team…they just aren’t as good at street fighting)? I really want to know. How many times do you have to get ripped off by these refs before it is OK to bitch about the officiating? How much do we have to put up with?
These are the question I want answered
"You're welcome friend
I love you."
- Tom "Dragline" inHawaii
I wish I could answer it for you
but all I can say is that I agree 100%. I am very tired of Roy getting mugged.
Open to playing some ping pong (uh - table tennis) with anyone who's interested. cdd37@yahoo.com
Rules are rules. Regular season and playoff should be no different.
This whole “refs are gonna call it differently in the playoffs” business is ridiculous. Younger, more exciting teams don’t have a chance when the officiating balance tips towards veteran squads just because they know how to exploit the unique playoff rules.
This smashmouth defensive basketball is ugly basketball, and it’s not how the game was intended to be played. Defense should win Super Bowls – not NBA Championships.
I’ll change my opinion when WE become the crafty vets, but for now I’m pretty sure I’m right.
by levelhed on Apr 23, 2009 8:27 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
That's it, I suppose
You know, despite the O’Donnell controversy Clyde and company really did get all kinds of calls during most of their game, especially Drexler, especiially after the Blazers made the Finals in 1990. Someday when this is an advantage for us we’ll just accept it. And if some young team plays with enough fire and guts to overcome it, more power to them. We shouldn’t have been relying on it to win anyway.
But for now, we need to be that team with fire and guts that’s just crazy enough to win this thing. Otherwise we can complain all we want, but it’ll still amount to a series loss.
—Dave
It's the same thing in boxing.
A challenger has to beat a champ decisively — sometimes nothing less than a TKO will do — or the champ will win on points.
Who's the challenger?
We are the 4 seed. And we did make the playoffs based on this year, not past years performance.
Man standing on toilet is high on pot.
That's one way to look at it
but that’s not the way the refs, other fans, and the NBA media look at it.
by MiledAnimal on Apr 23, 2009 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Totally agree
I want to see great basketball, not a freaking wrestling match. If the defense is allowed to, say, hold a cutter coming off a screen, then we are denied the privilege of seeing a beautiful thread-the-needle pass. I really wonder if the ‘77 Blazers could have succeeded in the current playoff officiating environment. After all, much of their success was predicated on constant motion, cutting to the rim and Walton’s superior passing skills. The way it’s called now, that motion wouldn’t exist. At least, not at the same level. Twardzik would not get to the rim, because the defender would have impeded his progress by holding him.
It may be the “way it is”, but I don’t have to like it.
Open to playing some ping pong (uh - table tennis) with anyone who's interested. cdd37@yahoo.com
Dude...
back in ’77 guys were beating the crap out of each other. I would think the ’77 Blazers would have it easier this day in age.
by Artest4Prez on Apr 23, 2009 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
exactly
forget hand checking those guys were straight bashing each other..
the only thing hard about coming forward in time as an nba player is the increased athleticism and speed that players seem to have…
"Slum dunk? You just go to the rim, and crush.. crush the ball in the rim."
- Nic Batum
Another great post Dave.
One of your best perhaps. You capture the reasons why I try not to blame the officials (not always successfully) or criticize their performance, and the reasons why I often get so frustrated with them.
I often remind myself of how difficult a job they have. Furthermore, I realize that watching on TV does not give me the best vantage point and that the ref’s do not have the luxury of slow motion and instant replay. But this doesn’t always work when I see evidence such as you and blazrfan provide. I figure the only solution is to do exactly what the players have to do – not get caught up in the officiating.
hakkaa päälle !
Funny was just gonna mention Clyde
and the guys, Malone and Stockton, Mike and Scotty,Clyde and Jerome even Terry and Buck, all those teams went to the hole they forced the call to be made. Someone needs to start going to the rack besides Broy on a consistent basis, the occasional Blakey or LMA move that is soft at best is not gonna get it done, When you talk about physical basketball that means both ends initiate contact , make them blow the whistle.And for the love of all that is good feed the ball to Greg when he has his guy on his back at the box ,Good things will happen. Forget the refs, is just the way its gonna be. nice read Dave.
Roy's gotten better at that
LMA has to some extent as well. I agree though, force the contact, make them call the foul…
Proud member of Duck nation!
The only important thing
Is that the Blazers don’t become focused on the officiating. They’ve got to do their share of lobbying, but they’ve got to remained focused on executing. That is – executing the Rockets! (ba-dum-dum.)
True.
Nothing will derail a game like getting caught up sniping at the officials. Part of what’s got the Blazers so far has been their remarkable cool when the calls aren’t going their way. Just get back on defense and leave the complaining to Nate.
Sometimes I find myself wishing Nate would get a T.
In the NBA it normally helps more than hurts. What does the other team get, 1 free throw. What do the Blazers usually get, a make up call (2 free throws or a foul on one of their important players).
...things go well I might be showing my O face...O...O...O...you know what I'm talking about.
Yet Steve Blake got a T last game
For doing what? It’s hard to imagine Blake really ripping into a ref…
Proud member of Duck nation!
you just don't know Blake well enough then :-)
""Look. I can touch the rim on my tippy toes.. " – Greg Oden
Which is what Yao did to Oden
Actually, Yao pushed. Should have been a T for sure.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
Every time I'm
tempted to com-
plain about the refs,
I simply remember the 2002 Kings
And then I don’t fee-e-e-e-el, so, bad!
by MiledAnimal on Apr 23, 2009 9:19 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
wow
good point
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
These refs still stink
For about the first three quarters of game 2 Roy was carving up the defense and getting hacked almost every time, almost never getting the ‘and 1’ call. This was followed up on the other end multiple times with a call for incidental contact that had no impact on the play whatsoever. I find it to be outrageous that the Blazers have to beat both the Rockets and the refs to get the win. Hats off to them for pulling it off in game 2!
Just be consistent
That’s all I care about. If its a foul at one end, it should be the same at the other. Whatever the standard, make it clear and consistent…
Proud member of Duck nation!
(DAVE: that was a looong read)
Basically, it’s just part of the game. Even though they are trained professionals, there will ALWAYS be human error in the game, and there will always be controversy.
Just as the players in the NBA are expected to perform at great levels, there are many times throughout a season, series, even game when mistakes are made.
Not being able to predict every outcome is what peaks my interest to watch and participate in whatever way I can. That’s why I enjoy coming to BE every day and reading others opinions and thoughts and predictions. They all vary and they are all debatable.
Reffing is something similar. A good call, a bad call, a lucky call… It all depends on your angle and your perspective. It always has been that way and it always WILL be that way. Constantly complaing will not change anything.
You nailed it on the head Dave.
you nailed it
Now you gotta eat it.
Eat The Head, – Elgin
Tonight felt like the day you open the mail and receive an acceptance letter to your dream school: the University of Playoffs. - Ben Golliver, Apr 15 2009
We have a real advantage at Houston
if GO comes to play and the refs let him play. This should be put under the microscope by all of us in games 3 and 4. Then let’s make a judgement on both GO and the refs. After those games discussion concerning both should be very interesting.
It'll be hard having advantages here in Houston
Like you, we’ve only lost 8 home games this season too :-)
by UHoustonFan on Apr 23, 2009 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
LeBron's Cavs had a series of 31 home game wins, and we still took them to overtime without Aldridge :)
That stop and go by Roy is straight sick. I'm calling him "The Flu" from now on. - Wendell Maxey
That has nothing to do with the game tomorrow.
by Artest4Prez on Apr 23, 2009 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
That we improved on the road over the course of the season has nothing to do with playing on the road?
That stop and go by Roy is straight sick. I'm calling him "The Flu" from now on. - Wendell Maxey
I think it’s safe to say that how the Blazers played the Cavs at home has nothing to do with how they will play the Rockets at home.
Yes, the Cav’s a very good team and an even better home team, but it’s a very different match up – thus, it has nothing to do with tomorrow’s game.
It’s works the same for the Rockets too. I think the Blazers have a better shot of beating the Lakers based on match ups, but I think the Rockets have a better chance of beating Portland based on matchups.
Funny how it works.
by Artest4Prez on Apr 23, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions
LOL matchups
The biggest reason that we are supposed to “match up bad” with you guys is that Artest and Battier can stop Roy. Apparently that is no longer true…
Why is the reffing so bad?
It could be:
1) the refs have an agenda and after 6 dissapointing 1st round losses these refs are determined to appease 500 million fans overseas.
2) Its hard for the refs to make good calls in the first round as they are getting used to the “new rules” of playoff basketball.
3) these guys are doing the best they can with a tremendously difficult job where no matter what call they make on many plays, half the fans watching the game are going to feel they screwed up.
As for me I just don’t get people who think David Stern should just fire all the refs. Where are all these perfect refs hiding out? Why are they choosing to ref division II games for $100 bucks a game instead of reffing in the NBA already? Imperfect as they are, these guys are the best there are at this thankless job.
That said, I still yell like crazy at every game, convinced that they can hear my angry screams and favor the Blazers on the next close call. I don’t think we got many of those “home court calls” in the first two games. The numbers in Dave’s original post support that idea. I’m afraid things are going to get even worse for us as the Houston fans sway the refs to give the Rockets even more of those close calls.
As for me I just don’t get people who think David Stern should just fire all the refs. Where are all these perfect refs hiding out?
I’d personally like to see refs re-trained from scratch. If the existing ones can be retrained, great, otherwise replace them. Make reffing their full time job. They need to use as much video training as, say, Shane Battier to know the teams they’re reffing and their tendencies and tricks. And every summer, training upon training so they’re ready for fall.
No more “I know Traveling says one thing in the book, but we call it how we want.” You’ll call it how it’s written, or you’ll be replaced.
Then, in order to make sure the instant-call mistakes in games are mitigated when possible, use replay in situations where it will not significantly slow the game down (using a fourth ref who’s off the court and on headset to the guys on the court).
And separate them from David Stern. His company (the NBA) funds the refs, but a separate firewalled entity controls them, reviews them, and gives them pay increases/decreases based on their performance.
And they have to take questions from reporters after the game, while watching replays of their calls. If they can’t handle that, then get people who can.
I’m big on preparation, transparency and responsibility. Neither of those are particularly obvious in the NBA referee’s profession. If the NBA showed right NOW that they were doing the best they could in these areas, I’d immediately lay off the refs.
But that’s just me.
by Timmay! on Apr 23, 2009 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Timmay--you should be running the NBA--rec
It's spelled "PRZYBILLA."
vanillathrillagorillaprzybilla
by RenoBlazerFan on Apr 23, 2009 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
You don't want travelling called as it is written
For a year, every possession would end in travelling. Do I really mean every? Yes. 0-0 games would happen.
I totally get your point here.
I understand what you’re saying, and am not dismissing it. I’m going to disagree… I’ll definitely explain why though.
First, let’s make a big assumption: That up until say, 1980, traveling was called properly. This could otherwise turn into a much bigger discussion.
So, if traveling calls could be handled by Jerry West, Wilt Chamberlain, Pete Maravich and Bill Russell, they can certainly be handled by LeBron James, Shaq, Dwyane Wade and Dwight Howard. But like you hinted, they’ve been trained by the refs that more steps are acceptable and allowed.
There’s two ways to fix this. One is to update the rulebook. I’d be ok with simplifying the rule, while not changing the spirit of it. It’s become too complicated. But I don’t believe the step-and-a-half rule, nor the pivot-foot rule, should be changed. Let every player now deal with the same rules that Bill Walton did. This isn’t a situation where “the game has evolved”, as some people have said, but instead it’s a situation where the refs let control get away from them and the players used it to their advantage (understandably so).
Second, you’re right. Everyone would get called for traveling if it was changed tomorrow. But that’s not what has to happen.
Change the rule after the Finals. Inform the players that the rule will revert to the basic form. no more 6-moves-of-the-pivot-foot while standing on the perimeter, or during an up-and-under move in the paint. No more double-pivot-foot-shift on a drive. No more “crab dribble” (ugh). They know all summer.
Offer players classes all Summer, supervised by the senior refs, so they can get reacquainted to the proper rules for traveling. Show them video, get them on the court, help them learn the rule.
In the fall, send senior refs to every training camp, to teach every team in person.
Use preseason to get them accustomed to the new rules. Make sure the fans know there will be more traveling in preseason games, and explain why. Most fans will appreciate it! They’d probably learn what traveling really is, in the process.
By the time the season starts. The players will be ready. It’ll take them a while to get comfortable with it, and traveling calls would increase, but they’ll know exactly what they can’t get away with.
This would all require the NBA to care about enforcing the rules properly and fairly on all players and teams. I personally think they prefer the status quo, and they’ve given hints as such.
It really is absurd though
You could probably call fouls based on icy glares alone.
I would be fouled out in 2 seconds :)
Dave for owning the other blog… you rule <3
Sophia
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
Roses are red
violets in bloom
Sophia’s in love
with Nicholas Batum
-Bow4Meow
Thanks Dave
You paint an eloquent picture that mimics what I see also. In a perfect world, one ref crew would be consistent with the next ref crew. In the NBA, that’s not the case. The officials are one season removed from having a guy who was deliberately effecting the outcome of games amongst their ranks, and what kills me the most about that is he was rated as an above average ref. Davey Stern doesn’t recognize how bad his refs are, and seemingly thinks everything is hunky dory in his league. Until Davey takes some ownership of the craptastic referees, this problem isn’t going to be solved.
I hate to agree with Mark Cuban about anything, but in this case his crusade to bring to light the horrific officiating in the NBA is absolutely valid. He’s a billionaire, and Davey didn’t budge. What chance do we have? Unfortunately, us complaining about it isn’t going to do much. The only answer I can come up with to get Davey’s attention is to stop showing up to games, and stop spending money on merch. I don’t think I could do that due to my emotional attachment to the Blazers…..
Golly Gee, I sure hope I didn't huwt anybody's feewings.... sniff...sniff....
I'm an elitist jerk, and I won't lie about it.
The WAVE is bad karma. When we lose, I'll blame it on our fans doing the wave......
This section seems completely unreasonable to me...
“The refs are going to accept some things from the Rockets as a matter of course that they wouldn’t expect, and thus wouldn’t let slide, from the Blazers. When Ron Artest bumps somebody it could be a foul but it could also be because he’s a huge, gifted defender. When Nicolas Batum does the same thing it’s probably just a foul.”
One thing I have never understood is this type of justification. A bump is a bump no matter what. It is either a foul or it is not. I do believe in letting teams play, but a Batum bump is no different than an Artest bump and that is that. That shows obvious bias and I struggle why people fail to see that.
by dfoz3 on Apr 23, 2009 10:52 AM PDT reply actions 3 recs
REC
rec rec rec rec rec rec rec rec rec rec
NO MORE (EXPLETIVE DELETED) DOUBLE STANDARDS!!
Open to playing some ping pong (uh - table tennis) with anyone who's interested. cdd37@yahoo.com
indeed
if a foul is called on Batum for bumping Artest, and Artest bumps Batum the same way, it should be a foul on both ends.
Mostly, I think it is. It’s just when the double standards come in that it is so frustrating. – Elgin
Tonight felt like the day you open the mail and receive an acceptance letter to your dream school: the University of Playoffs. - Ben Golliver, Apr 15 2009
The opposite of this...
And why I think people are upset, is the Rockets are just driving to the rim and getting fouls called for them. Kyle Lowry and Von Wafer both attempted 6+ free throws in game 2. We aren’t getting those calls because Yao isn’t receiving those fouls.
If the refs are favoring valuable players than we should be able to club Kyle Lowry like a baby seal and not get a foul called.
I am reminded of boxing, where it is generally understood
that the challenger has to TAKE the championship from the champ. If the fight is too close, the champ keeps his crown – when in doubt, give it to the champ. Now the Rockets are not exactly the champs, but they are the established contenders, and the Blazers are the challengers. So, there is something to the respect/disrespect factor for established/new player/team. And all Dave’s points on how to deal with that are good. Not to get carried away blaming the refs for the outcome, but nothing wrong with generating a bit of “feedback” with suggestions for possible improvement in calling what’s going on on the floor. We do have several “rounds” with the same team, with days in between to assist the refs in noticing factors that may have somehow escaped their notice. Part of the game is playing the refs. The players can do it, the coaches can do it. The fans can do a bit of it too. So, some bellyaching about the bad calls, is legit activity for fans supporting their team. Legitimate gripes have their place. Some of you are doing a good job at trying to keep ’em honest.
We would be the champs
Playoffs are based on the current years performance, NOT past years records. Prior years records/playoff experience are irrelevant. We are the 4 seed, they are the 5 seed. It’s not like we’re playing Boston here.
Man standing on toilet is high on pot.
It looked pretty relevant when we stole game 1.
by Artest4Prez on Apr 23, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn't call it a steal; more like a beatdown!
It's spelled "PRZYBILLA."
vanillathrillagorillaprzybilla
by RenoBlazerFan on Apr 23, 2009 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Please stop using a boxing analogy because it doesn't apply
"Kobe you empty headed animal food trough wiper! I fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!" - Nicolas Batum
by Sexual Tyrannosaurus on Apr 23, 2009 9:18 PM PDT up reply actions
The problem wasn't disparity in fouls.
It was who the fouls were charged to. I saw at least one, maybe two, that Yao should have been charged with. When BRoy made contact with Yao in the circle, Yao was off his feet and his arms weren’t straight up. Oden got the same thing called against him all season, mostly because of the position of his arms.
I took issue with several ambiguous calls, the ones where guys are driving the lane and get bumped or whacked by two or three players. More often than not, they got charged to our bigs rather than a guard or wing player. In a game like that, all three of our main bigs either fouled out or were about to. If officials are going to defer to Yao, they should also show some respect for top-notch defenders like Pryz.
One of the problems that the NBA has had forever
is that their rules don’t deal well with huge, huge men. The refs didn’t know what to do with Kareem and Wilt in their days, we all saw how they handled Shaq (free pass), and Yao—while not nearly at the level of favoritism as those other examples—creates many of the same problems. What is a foul for or against a 7’6" supertanker of a man? The game just looks different and flows differently at that size. Refs process things instantaneously and visually, to the point it becomes instinct. Players Yao’s size mess up that visual processing something fierce. So there’s a lot of weird stuff that goes on.
What tends to happen in these extreme cases is that if a huge player is bad he gets far more fouls called on him but when he’s good, somewhat fewer. I believe at least part of that is the refs being at a loss, guessing, and erring on one side or another based on talent level.
—Dave
They made the paint wider after Wilt, and the NCAA outlawed dunking after Kareem for a while. Maybe they have to adapt the rules again in the future.
That stop and go by Roy is straight sick. I'm calling him "The Flu" from now on. - Wendell Maxey
I'll also throw this out.
I think racism had something to do with controlling Wilt and Kareem’s game. If they weren’t African American’s do you think the rules would have changed during that period of time?
I agree Zaig
It wouldn’t matter if those men were green. They so totally dominated the game at that time that the people who ran the league felt like some rule changes were in order to maintain a competitive atmosphere. – Elgin
Tonight felt like the day you open the mail and receive an acceptance letter to your dream school: the University of Playoffs. - Ben Golliver, Apr 15 2009
I can't stand how Yao is allowed to leave his feet and make contact while in the restricted area
but its somehow not a foul because his arms stay relatively straight up.
A lot of times in this series, Roy has initiated contact, but with Yao in the circle and leaving his feet, those still ought to be fouls on Yao. They certainly would be for Oden.
This sereis is going to be close
So it deserves solid officiating. As a Rockets fan, I’m used to the refs showing us no love. But I don’t even think we were slighted or that there was bias; the calls were just bad on both sides.
What I noticed was as the game wore on, whenever a team went on a run, the refs made more calls. When things were tight, they let them play thorough. They should at least look consistent in their calls.
And Dave, you are spot on about the big men. They get more scrutiny, and sometimes get some slack. Yao doens’t get as much for free as Shaq, but I think sometimes during the playoffs, the refs ease up on him. This creates the inconsistency.
they tend to give Yao's fouls to his team mates
Battier picked two of his 4 the other night that way…
Goodbye Deke. The NBA will miss Mt. Mutombo
Support families in crisis in Portland www.give10tell10.org
Bailout
PDXBuckeye is exactly right. It’s not about how many fouls are called so much as who they are called on. Chuck Hayes picking up his fourth impacts the game very little. In fact, it may benefit the Rockets by forcing them to play a superior player for longer stretches. My biggest gripe is an obvious Yao contact foul being assessed to a Shane Battier or Hayes. To the Blazers, a foul on Yao is worth two given to any other Rocket. You can see that for the most part, Houston agrees. After a Blazer drive and a Rocket foul, Battier or some other wing player is the first to raise their hand for the bench to see. I’ve yet to see Yao volunteer to take the call for obvious reasons.
Great Post Dave!
Hopefully, now that we’ve had a couple games of experiencing playoff reffing (and basketball), we can go into Houston with an appropriate mindset. Funny thing is, I’ve read very little in terms of complaints about the refs from either players or coaches (some in game moaning) after Games 1 & 2. All of the complaining has come from the fans!
‘OK Nic, swag on out on ‘em!’
There is a financial cost to them when they complain
probably larger than normal during the playoffs. These guys are trying to earn a living here. Plus commenting on officiating by players and coaches in the media hurts their reputation with the officials, making it even harder to get a fair call.
Goodbye Deke. The NBA will miss Mt. Mutombo
Support families in crisis in Portland www.give10tell10.org
You know what I'm saying...
They often don’t get too specific, but players and coaches comment about the refs without getting fined all the time. It’s a matter of how you say it…
‘OK Nic, swag on out on ‘em!’
Robots
We need robot refs…then if they screw up we can beat them with hammers to alleviate frustration…
I have my P.h.D in unreliable hyperbole.
by Eat Politicians on Apr 23, 2009 1:10 PM PDT reply actions
more Firesign
Pit your mettle against these common household appliances! (Want to go a couple rounds with this toaster? How about this water heater?) – Elgin
Tonight felt like the day you open the mail and receive an acceptance letter to your dream school: the University of Playoffs. - Ben Golliver, Apr 15 2009
This section right here is my problem
Houston has the better defensive reputation and execution. Most fouls are called on the defensive end. The refs are going to accept some things from the Rockets as a matter of course that they wouldn’t expect, and thus wouldn’t let slide, from the Blazers. When Ron Artest bumps somebody it could be a foul but it could also be because he’s a huge, gifted defender. When Nicolas Batum does the same thing it’s probably just a foul.
I get the star power argument, does not make me happy, but I get it. I get the agressor gets the call bit. I get that it is a fast game and getting every call right is impossible.
This whole ‘team reputation’ argument baffles me. You have a reputation as a good defensive team and that means you are allowd to hold arms and jerseys while the other team gets callled for a hand check? It is not good defense to hold, it is defined as a penalty, that means it is bad basketball defense. Good defense is filling the space your opponent wants to occupy, denying them the good shot or open passing lane, Holding is illegal, if you have to do it to deny position, the shot or passing lane you are not good at it. You are just a bad defensive team that gets away with playing illlegally.
Houston holds a lot.
Goodbye Deke. The NBA will miss Mt. Mutombo
Support families in crisis in Portland www.give10tell10.org
Only moan I have is give Yao his 5th
The team that has played better has won in both these games despite reffing. There have certainly been some calls that were terrible but I like(and have liked) all year this young Blazer team hasn’t really let the “bad” fouls get to them.
Remember the " ’sheed and gang" years where one bad called happened, the team fell apart, stopped playing basketball, just got all the madder which just tempted the officials to call more fouls..
Yes great post Dave. Truth is I see 2 things here, 1st that hasn’t been as much talked about in the comments is the Blazers are doing a decent job of not letting it affect their game(a la Jailblazers implosions), and in game 2 I think they learned a bit about how to over come it.(albeit they are going to do more of some of the things talked about in regards to reffing to bring game 5 back 2-2)
The only issue I had, and honstely the only one, was not giving Yao his 5th game 2. I saw 2 occasions that warranted it but they didn’t do it. They had our 3 players likely to play center down the stretch all with 5 fouls(or 6th depending on what point of the 4th we are talking about). Needed to give Yao the 5th so at least he had to hold back a little as well. It satisfies this “star power” nonsense(they could choose when to give him a 6th if at all) but at least keep the game looking honest as I believe one of those 2 fouls should have been a 5th.
Either way, there have been some head scrathers both ways but nothing like that Golden State circus that made the NBA look like a joke earlier this year, that friends was an embarassment to the sport.
I can deal with the bumping,,.
but I can’t deal with Yao’s D at the rim. It’s a huge advantage for Houston if Yao is allowed to jump inside that circle and make hard body contact every time a Blazer drives. It makes me wonder what that circle is for.
If Yao can do this than Joel and Oden ought to be able as well. Call it the same at both ends.
I didn't think the refs were bad in Game 2
While the non-call on what would have been Yao’s 5th was a bad one, I didn’t think the refs blew too many calls. I don’t think that any offensive player should be able to initiate contact into the body of a defender and expect to get a free call. BRoy totally jumped sideways into Yao on a few of those, and I think that’s a good no call, regardless of where Yao is standing. Nothing frosts me more than someone like Kobe careening into the lane and seeking out someone to jump into to draw a cheap foul, so even though I’d love to see Roy fouling out Yao on those drives, I actually like how they reffed it for the most part..
On the other end, it seemed like a lot of the fouls called on Portland on penetration were the result of a reach in by somebody who didn’t have good position-and those are just so easy to see, they get called a lot.
on an idle sunday a couple of months ago i looked up some vintage nba on youtube
and i was amazed by how many stars had 5 fouls or fouled out in big games. here’s a shocker: pete maravich fouled out of the game in which he scored 68 pts! i think there were more than 2 min left. this would never happen in the david stern-led starpower nba.
just so, there was a piece in cnn/si a while back about how few fouls lebron james is whistled for. only slightly above one per game.
ignacio
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