Introducing The Gentlemen From BeyondBowie.com

by Ben Golliver on Apr 22, 2009 11:35 PM PDT

As jksnake99 noted in the fanshots yesterday, the TrueHoop network has added a Blazers Blog; BeyondBowie.com is written by Erik Barmack and Max Handelman, two smart, successful Portland transplants currently living outside the pdx fishbowl.

In the post-Game 2 euphoria, I exchanged brief emails with Erik and Max in hopes that we might get an introduction to them as writers and people.

(Basically this was a test to see if they were cool enough to respond. They passed! Kidding about the test. Sort of. Not really. It was cool how quickly they responded!)

Erik handled the heavy lifting during this interview presumably because Max was busy today taking out restraining orders on those of you googling pictures of his wife.

Here's our conversation...

Blazersedge: It seems like blogging duos get compared to either Batman/Robin or Pacino/Deniro. Does one of those comparisons fit?

Erik:

I'd say that we're more like Waldorf and Statler, only younger:

S: Is your hearing aid fixed?

W: No.

S: Then how do you know what I'm saying?

W: I don't!

S: Oh. (does double take)

I'd say I'm Waldorf.

Blazersedge: How would you describe your writing styles and background?

Erik:

We try to balance analysis, humor, and good-natured fandom. We wrote a book WHY FANTASY FOOTBALL MATTERS that was sort of a look inside the petty machinations of our fantasy football league, and we sprinkled in tons of pop culture and historical sports references. I've also written a novel, THE VIRGIN.

Max has produced a number of films in Hollywood.

Blazersedge: BeyondBowie.com is the go to site for....

Erik:

I'd say that we're not trying to be the most comprehensive Blazer site out there (that's BE) or the most analytical (again BE). But we are trying to consolidate a lot of chatter about the Blazers, sprinkle in some humor, and conduct some reasonable analysis about the direction of the team.

We're also shameless fans -- so we want to share the psychology of fandom with others who are frothing up over the Blazers. But we're not going to do play-by-play, cover every post-game interview, and so on. We're going to try to create highly opinionated, somewhat funny, somewhat insightful pieces that consolidate many feelings/thoughts for each game.

Blazersedge: Favorite current Blazers? Favorite all time Blazer?

Erik:

I'm a Batum guy. I look at him and I see Prince and Pippen, and I truly believe that he can be an all-star someday. As far as all-time greats ... both of us were huge Drazen fans.

One of my favorite Blazer plays ever was when Drazen was on a two on one during a regular season game, and he dribbled away from the key so that he could hoist a three (he missed). Pure hubris.

Max:
I think Erik pretty much captures it when it comes to favorite players. I'm a huge Batum fan, and was a huge Drazen Petrovic fan. In fact, my Instant Messenger name is an homage to Petrovic - [IM Screen name deleted to protect again a BE Army swarm].
My personal favorite Blazer memory/experience was running into and chatting with Paul Allen at an event. And him going on and on about how excited he was to resign a player and make him the cornerstone of the franchise.

That player? Darius Miles.

My, how things have changed.

Blazersedge: I noticed on your site that you make frequent reference to an oft-forgotten period of Blazer history -- the 1980s. Any favorite personalities or memories from those years that you feel get short-shrifted in the telling of Blazers history?

Erik:

Billy Ray Bates was way ahead of his time.

He once slept through an entire first-half of a game. He once scored 64 points for the Crispa Redmanizers.

He said things like this (from wikipedia): "Those people, they loved me," Bates would tell The Oregonian. "There, I was like Michael Jordan. I could have anything I wanted. All I had to do was snap my fingers. I had my own condo, my own car and my own bodyguard with an Uzi. I had to fight off the women."

He allegedly drank beers before games.

Jerome Kersey claimed:

After picking Bates up at the Portland airport, then-Blazer trainer Ron Culp advised Billy Ray not to carry large amounts of cash around, but rather to open up a checking account so that he could pay bills with checks. Bates had a quizzical expression on his face, Culp recalled, and finally worked up the nerve to ask, "What are checks?"

Just a guy firing away on all cylinders.

Blazersedge: Who are your must read writers online or in the paper? Both Portland and national?

Erik:

BE (of course), Quick, Canzano, Center Court, TrueHoop, HoopsHype, The Daily Dime, Vescey, Scott Howard-Cooper, Dwight Jaynes.

Blazersedge: Anything else I forgot to ask? Open your souls...

Erik:

We know we're going to have earn the trust of new readers. We just want to be one of many great Blazer blogs, and we hope to bring a slightly different voice to the debate.

Blazersedge: It's still cool if we call Henry the Blogfather, right?

Erik:

Yes, he is the Blogfather.

So there you have it. Two cool guys that are ga-ga for the Blazers. What's not to like? A big thank you to Erik and Max for chatting.

Commence incredibly witty, pithy cracks about your unique dislike for the name of their blog in 3, 2, 1 ... NOW.

But, seriously, don't do that. That's so Tuesday.

Instead, welcome them to our corner of the internetz. And update your blogrolls accordingly.

-- Ben (benjamin.golliver@gmail.com)

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Comments

lol

"I don't know Twitter" - Rudy Fernandez

by RoodiePhirnandizz on Apr 22, 2009 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions

The bigger question is

is the correct grammer “blogrolls” or “blogsroll”?

—Dave

by Dave on Apr 23, 2009 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions

Dave

You prove once again why you are the classiest blogger out there.

How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009

by douglast on Apr 22, 2009 11:56 PM PDT reply actions

Technically this was Ben

but we’re all good. I was going to throw a mention their way tonight too. This is better.

—Dave

by Dave on Apr 22, 2009 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions

yeah my bad

but what i said goes for both of you

How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009

by douglast on Apr 23, 2009 12:35 AM PDT up reply actions

In a way, Ben is like a part of Dave.

I think we all know which part.

by pualo on Apr 23, 2009 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions

Conjoined twin?

Like that episode of the X-Files with the circus freaks…

by DonkeyShins on Apr 23, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions

oh man

that was such a good episode

How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009

by douglast on Apr 23, 2009 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions

Don't let the Fiji mermaid get you

You’ll have to excuse my brother…he’s a little shy

(big laugh)

by two4larue on Apr 23, 2009 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions

Uh-oh, I think I hear a lawyer ringing the doorbell...

Didn’t know they worked this late. :)

Seriously, welcome to the Blazerblogosphere, gentlemen.

I have not yet begun to defile myself.

by EngineerScotty on Apr 22, 2009 11:58 PM PDT reply actions

I find it hard to believe any self respecting Portlander would name their blog something that dumb

You guys are the Blazers representation on the big ol’ ESPN network. The content looks good and all Blazer fans stick together….but the name….why? Just why? I guess we will just have to love you anyway. (I kind of thought Bustabucket would join the truehoop blog network.

"The brownies,'' Fernandez said after the game. "The brownies are good for me to make three-points.''

by Sabonis4Ever on Apr 23, 2009 12:01 AM PDT reply actions

At least you gave their content a chance.

My only thought is i’m too dumb to get that this is forced irony or something. I mean seriously? seriously? Beyond Bowie?

by NateMcMillan's Suit on Apr 23, 2009 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions

As I said already in the fanshots, I think it's catchy and that's the main point. Nobody would understand RamsayRamblers or RaysofBilly or something like that

I too don’t really like the ring to it, since it brings back all the “we should have taken MJ” and “is Oden the next Bowie” trash.

That stop and go by Roy is straight sick. I'm calling him "The Flu" from now on. - Wendell Maxey

by Norsktroll on Apr 23, 2009 2:53 AM PDT up reply actions

"Jailblazers" is a catchy term

Doesn’t mean it’s one I like or want associated with my hometeam.

by NateMcMillan's Suit on Apr 23, 2009 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions

Out of Jail would have been an interesting name :)

Maybe for a Michael Vick blog

That stop and go by Roy is straight sick. I'm calling him "The Flu" from now on. - Wendell Maxey

by Norsktroll on Apr 23, 2009 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions

How about

Petro goes Batum!

(consolidates their two favorite Blazers?)

by two4larue on Apr 23, 2009 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions

What's wrong with David Bowie?

And what does he have to do with the Blazers?

by DonkeyShins on Apr 23, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions

uggh, now i'm going to spend the next hour on utube watching Bowie videos instead of getting my work done!

<3 David Bowie

by NateMcMillan's Suit on Apr 23, 2009 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions

Turn to the left! ( Fashion )

Right! – Elgin

Tonight felt like the day you open the mail and receive an acceptance letter to your dream school: the University of Playoffs. - Ben Golliver, Apr 15 2009

by 22baylor on Apr 23, 2009 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions

hahahahaha

Ground Control to Major Tom

Here is my Playoff mode signature, that I thought up myself: "Just Do It".

by johnv59 on Apr 23, 2009 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions

and

the papers want to know whose shirts you wear

Here is my Playoff mode signature, that I thought up myself: "Just Do It".

by johnv59 on Apr 23, 2009 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions

This name is great

More David Bowie Blazer Blogs!!!!

by TheThinWhiteDuke on Apr 23, 2009 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions

They are the goon squad and they're coming to town

Beep Beep – Elgin

Tonight felt like the day you open the mail and receive an acceptance letter to your dream school: the University of Playoffs. - Ben Golliver, Apr 15 2009

by 22baylor on Apr 23, 2009 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions

Beep Beep

dah dah dah dah, dah dah dah dah

Here is my Playoff mode signature, that I thought up myself: "Just Do It".

by johnv59 on Apr 23, 2009 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions

fa fa fa fa

Fashion – Elgin

Tonight felt like the day you open the mail and receive an acceptance letter to your dream school: the University of Playoffs. - Ben Golliver, Apr 15 2009

by 22baylor on Apr 24, 2009 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions

The name

just totally turns me off, honestly.

Here is my Playoff mode signature, that I thought up myself: "Just Do It".

by johnv59 on Apr 23, 2009 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions

shout out to drazen petrovic

Travis Outlaw is Mr. Clutch

by two buck chuck on Apr 23, 2009 12:21 AM PDT reply actions

I would have preferred BeyondAlaaAbdelnaby

If only so people would be forced to bookmark the site instead of typing it out.

I fear for the day Paul Allen is no longer the owner of the Blazers.

He needs to reproduce soon so we have an heir in succession.

by blzrfan on Apr 23, 2009 3:17 AM PDT reply actions 3 recs

wow I totally forgot about that guy!

thanks for the memories.

Do not let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
If you train hard, you'll not only be hard, you'll be hard to beat.
-Herschel Walker

Go Blazerss!!! Playoff time!

by DaNoose on Apr 23, 2009 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions

Best comment of the day material.

rec

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Apr 23, 2009 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions

+1

Here is my Playoff mode signature, that I thought up myself: "Just Do It".

by johnv59 on Apr 23, 2009 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions

Before today, I'd never heard of Billy Ray Bates. I now know where Bonzi Wells got his inspiration, though.

Rather than the Philippines, however, Wells instead decided to peddle his wares in China. Ah, that’s the life.

by AK1984 on Apr 23, 2009 5:18 AM PDT reply actions

Bates > Wells

Hell…my dog > Wells

I was honestly disappointed that the “Network” and the Blogfather chose to go with this blog (friends of his? seriously?) instead of a local purveyor of Blazer Truth. Damned disappointed that BEdge wasn’t the one… Don’t like the name…brings up bad memories and future comparisons that serve no positive purpose.

I guess it’s up to me to write a blog called “Dunk on your Face”… (love that quote).

To end on a less sour note…these guys obviously love the Blazers and the writing is solid…but Brooklyn? Hard to get the right perspective out there… (ex-Flatbusher)

by raggmopp on Apr 23, 2009 7:46 AM PDT reply actions

No need to be disappointed

They’ll do a great job! You can have your BE and BB too.

—Dave

by Dave on Apr 23, 2009 8:03 AM PDT up reply actions

And I shall!

Still…Beyond Bowie? shakes head

so it goes… Bring on the Rockets!!!

by raggmopp on Apr 23, 2009 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions

It's political

ESPN vs. Yahoo, everyone knows who the best Blazer blog is – but the suits are making moves

Here is my Playoff mode signature, that I thought up myself: "Just Do It".

by johnv59 on Apr 23, 2009 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions

?

clyde and bonnie
jerry and tom
cash and tango
chong and cheech
cher and sonny
honey and milk
louise and thelma
costello and abbot
judy and punch

dinasour type of guys choir boys

by mittsabishy on Apr 23, 2009 8:39 AM PDT reply actions

Cheney and Bush

Oh wait, that one was right after all.

by DonkeyShins on Apr 23, 2009 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions

The Clark and Lewis expedition?

Oops, Alaska Airlines already beat me to it

I wonder if the voice actors on their radio commercials are from Brooklyn?

by two4larue on Apr 23, 2009 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions

I'm pretty sure that the voice actors are

puddy and the neighbor friend from mad about you.

dinasour type of guys choir boys

by mittsabishy on Apr 24, 2009 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions

Ben...since you say it's OK...

I’ll add BB to my regular Blazer consumption. And it’s great to hear guys talking about the 80’s Blazers….sort of the forgotten Blazer era. Jim Paxson, Mychel Thomson, Calvin Natt, and the incomparable Billy Ray Bates.

And for those of you that aren’t aware of BRB (I be talking to you AK1984)…Google is your friend. There are a million BRB stories…all worth a read. BRB was a naive young guy that had a ton of talent….but absolutely without a clue.

by antediluvian on Apr 23, 2009 8:46 AM PDT reply actions

I'll say it, it's an unfortunate name

The Blazers are known nationally for only a handful of things: the Ja*l Bl*zers, Bill Walton, and how we drafted Bowie instead of MJ.
So to name the Blazer Blog on Truehoop after something like that, it just feeds into a narrow-minded national perception of Blazer history.
After 25 years, It’s time to let go of the Bowie talk, but the way to do that isn’t naming yor blog after him.

The inbound to McGinnis, drives, stops, pumps, shoots, short, no good...AND THE GAME IS OVER! ~ Bill Schonely

by SandbergOnSports on Apr 23, 2009 8:52 AM PDT reply actions

BeyondBowie.com

Okay, that’s it — we’re changing our name, it’s either going to be:

1) BlazerBandwagon-eers
2) BlazeOfFury
3) BlazerBunker
4) BlazerBoostersRaRaRa
5) FauxBlazersFansinBrooklyn

Ah, wait ~~- those names are all taken! I guess we’re back to BeyondBowie. Shoot. (And, to be clear, the reason why we chose the name is to have something that would inspire debate about a throwback era -~~- to that end, we’ll do our Bill Laimbeer faux-bow and get back to writing.)

Thanks Dave/Ben for the support!

by Erik Barmack on Apr 23, 2009 9:03 AM PDT reply actions

Ah, wait – those names are all taken! I guess we’re back to BB. Shoot. (And, to be clear, the reason why we chose the name is to have something that would inspire debate about a throwback era — to that end, we’ll do our Bill Laimbeer faux-bow and get back to writing.)

by Erik Barmack on Apr 23, 2009 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions

i'll take any of those names

over beyond bowie.

The goal is not to be better, the goal is to be the best.

by ratbastird on Apr 23, 2009 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions

After all the comments about the name ....

… I’d never change it now.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Apr 23, 2009 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions

unfortunately

you have a point. it’s definitely created noise.

The goal is not to be better, the goal is to be the best.

by ratbastird on Apr 24, 2009 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions

Petro goes Batum

I’m telling you, it’s sure to be combustible

by two4larue on Apr 23, 2009 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions

Looking forward to reading the content

Count me among the “hate the name crowd”. Why not just go with www.RememberThe2000WCF.com ?

How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009

by douglast on Apr 23, 2009 9:27 AM PDT reply actions

i think you actually found a name

that could have been a little bit worse. congrats.

The goal is not to be better, the goal is to be the best.

by ratbastird on Apr 23, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions

Old-school SNL skit

And with a name like Fluckers…it’s got to be good!

Hold on there, I’ve got a jam here called ____________

by two4larue on Apr 23, 2009 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions

UUUUUUUUUUMMMMMM! Beyond Bowie ????????????

With due respect to Ben and Dave the only way BB is going to be a success is if they bring FRESH content and a FRESH perspective. Otherwise having a Hot wife and connected to the East Coast Sports Network just won’t do it for me. Bandwagoner’s aren’t my favorite type of fans either!

Remember presence breeds conviction …hard to do from such a long distance.

"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot." - Bill Russell

by NOWINE on Apr 23, 2009 9:41 AM PDT reply actions

Yea

We have Ben at practices and games, what is BlahBlah going to do? I wish them well, but it can’t compare to Dave and Ben’s coverage.

Here is my Playoff mode signature, that I thought up myself: "Just Do It".

by johnv59 on Apr 23, 2009 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions

kick pix from the east coast?

I don’t think so.

Here is my Playoff mode signature, that I thought up myself: "Just Do It".

by johnv59 on Apr 23, 2009 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions

"what's not to like"

………… um the title of their blog.

They seem really nerdy, which is just as well.

Sophia

Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare

Roses are red
violets in bloom
Sophia’s in love
with Nicholas Batum
-Bow4Meow

by BlazerFan1 on Apr 23, 2009 9:57 AM PDT reply actions

I like nerdy

I find it hot… mostly in women, but i like guys with brains too. You know, in that manly totally secure way that a man likes a man…

how about them blazers?

The goal is not to be better, the goal is to be the best.

by ratbastird on Apr 23, 2009 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions

how bout them blazers!!!!

well we gotta steal on in Tex… not sure im too confident about that.

Other than that… woo hoo! Go Blazers!

Sophia

Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare

Roses are red
violets in bloom
Sophia’s in love
with Nicholas Batum
-Bow4Meow

by BlazerFan1 on Apr 23, 2009 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions

Name sugestions

Begginings ( you know, a fresh new beginning for a dominate era of blazer basketball)
Banging Basketball (if you don’t draw in the blazer crowd, you can at least draw in some interesting and amusing commentary from people with interesting fetishes)
Bountiful Blazers (I think this sucks but you seem fixated on the BB and the blazers WILL be bountiful)
BlazerBound (another BB that’s a bit cooler. Also could draw in some S&M crowd. Do not underestimate the site traffic from a good fringe festish)
AnotherBlazerBlog: (simple and honest)
JustBlazers: (The only issue i have with this is the close resemblance of my courtrivals team name)
ReignofBlaze: (Our mascot is king snicker. I can see why you didn’t pick this one as the misspellings would be numerous. I do like the RB though. Think of it as an ode to me)
BlazerBelievers: (well, you admit you’re doubters, so that’s right out)
DestroyerofDoubt: (It has destroyer in it and for that reason makes me think of some heavy metal songs)
BlazerRevival: (you get some hope, optimism, and belief. Also doesn’t use ripcity)
BuffBoys: (horrible name, but maybe it’ll snag you some hopeful girls? Either that or you’ll be laughed out of town and at least you’ll have brought humor to the lives of others)
WaltonWalkers: (if you’re going back in time, go to a winner! Also inspired by the Charles Barkely game making commercial I saw where the video game is “Old School” as in really old..)
WaltonandBeyond: (that’s where the mania really started)
77dreamers: (Dreaming of that day again. To bad we didn’t win in 69. the double entendre would greatly amuse the 6 year old in me.)

The goal is not to be better, the goal is to be the best.

by ratbastird on Apr 23, 2009 10:30 AM PDT reply actions

Labor of Love

short form LoL

Seriously, they’d be kinda of cool.

The goal is not to be better, the goal is to be the best.

by ratbastird on Apr 23, 2009 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions

Sorry fellas, I'm always going to have a hard time getting past the name

If you want people to take your kid seriously, don’t name him Bozo.

by Corvid on Apr 23, 2009 10:43 AM PDT reply actions

Or Boozer

That stop and go by Roy is straight sick. I'm calling him "The Flu" from now on. - Wendell Maxey

by Norsktroll on Apr 23, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs

haha

rec

draft dejuan blair

by Cablinasian on Apr 23, 2009 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions

How about naming it BeyondHouston until the series is over?

Do not let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
If you train hard, you'll not only be hard, you'll be hard to beat.
-Herschel Walker

Go Blazerss!!! Playoff time!

by DaNoose on Apr 23, 2009 10:53 AM PDT reply actions

or beyondbelief

because you know the blazers will be!

The goal is not to be better, the goal is to be the best.

by ratbastird on Apr 23, 2009 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions

heck, even beyond bust would be better

and there’s another double entendre to make me giggle.

The goal is not to be better, the goal is to be the best.

by ratbastird on Apr 23, 2009 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions

I like the name

Pretty funny writing as well. I just can’t get used to the true hoop format. Once I do, I’ll add them to my regular reading. If they can get Bowie to do an interview, I will be really impressed. Has anybody been able to track him down for an interview in recent history? dude is like a sasquatch with bad knees.

by pippenainteazy on Apr 23, 2009 12:06 PM PDT reply actions

He was interviewed after Oden needed microfracture by ESPN and declared himself a big fan of the current Blazers and Oden

That stop and go by Roy is straight sick. I'm calling him "The Flu" from now on. - Wendell Maxey

by Norsktroll on Apr 23, 2009 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions

Interesting read

Lame name

by southern oregon on Apr 23, 2009 12:49 PM PDT reply actions

My last take on this

Seriously, I wish them well. However, everyone complains about the East Coast media bias and their excuse is always that “well, people on the East Coast can’t stay up late to watch the West Coast games”.

So now we have a new BlahBlah blog, based on the East Coast, that is supposed to be informative about the Blazers, with no access to games, practices, or locker rooms in person? Sorrry, I’m not buying this at all ESPN. Not even a nice try. They can review tapes, etc. and post opinions late the next day or two but it doesn’t taste well on my pallet. I know they are good guys, cute wife, but sorry…. I won’t be visiting them. I prefer my Blazer coverage from the West Coast, local, live, and on time. Just my humble opinion.

The World Wide Leader made a huge mistake.

Here is my Playoff mode signature, that I thought up myself: "Just Do It".

by johnv59 on Apr 23, 2009 2:34 PM PDT reply actions

Nah

There’s no mistake. They’re going to be fine, and different. We need different. Give them a chance.

—Dave

by Dave on Apr 23, 2009 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions

I don't mind the name...

I think it avoids the pitfalls of obvious boosterism which can be tired and tacky. Also it makes both new and old fans do some mental work, requires us to know something about Blazer history and it works like an inside joke… sports writers and geeks who aren’t Blazer fans will get it because that’s what they do, but it will likely go over the heads of most others, except us dedicated Blazer fans. Those of us who get it… were in. Those that don’t just shake their heads and wonder.

nice site, curious if your East Coast presence and ESPN affiliation will garner the blazers more mainstream coverage… but to be honest the best sports writing, with some notable exceptions, happens on the blogs not in the mainstream.

by Professor on Apr 23, 2009 9:32 PM PDT reply actions