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The Pick and Pop Must Stop

I can't have been the only one to notice that the Blazers do not really have a pick and roll play. If they do, then they barely ever use it, and that I cannot understand.

 

The most common Blazer play I've seen this year has been the pick and pop. In that play, TheMarcus sets a pick for a driving Brandon, LMA then drifts about 20 feet from the basket and waits for Brandon to kick him the ball back. It's a long jumper that isn't a 3, but he's very good at making the shot. It's not the worst, but it's an easy play to scout, and the better defensive teams have shut it down. What does Aldridge never do? Roll hard to the hoop.

 

The other two most common Pick-setters for Portland are Joel and Greg. Time and time again after they've set their screen, the run straight into the middle of the paint, arms high looking for the entry pass/lob that (almost) never comes. And that is what is driving me bonkers.

 

There have been only a few times this season that the Blazer guards have seen this, and made the play. In fact I remember reading a Jason Quick article early in the season where Nate showed tape of just this thing. I believe it was specifically about Joel getting into the paint, and no one looking for him. Brandon Roy obviously listened, because the very next game he had at least 3 pick-and-roll plays with Przybilla that the VG dunked hard on. Sergio and Rudy are the only Blazers to exploit this with any consistency, and even then it's not much. Dwayne Wade, when paired with Shaq, got probably two extra assits per game with this sort of play.

 

I will have to search the O-Live archives. I'll update this later with a link to the article and game once I've found it.

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I agree

we run too many pick and pop plays, and we don’t look for Joel or Greg enough off the pick and roll.

by jksnake99 on Apr 19, 2009 2:00 PM PDT reply actions  

It's not like they don't know the play exists

I mean, Utah runs it every single play. The Nugs ram it down our throats all game long. The L*kers, the Celts. You name it.

I know less than half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.

by haildablazer on Apr 19, 2009 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hornets Run it the best.

And Oden, once again, is a rookie, so non-stop fast break basketball is like fast-forwarding a song while he's trying to learn the lyrics.

by RipCity on Apr 19, 2009 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

whenever they do it

joel and greg are wide open in the lane and blake never throws the ball

bayless leaves over my dead body

by thomasikehara on Apr 19, 2009 2:39 PM PDT reply actions  

Precisely

Sergio will… occasionally.

I think Brandon has intentionally done it three times with Joel, and only once that I saw with Greg.

I know less than half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.

by haildablazer on Apr 19, 2009 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

The pick and pop will be a very effective play once Aldridge learns how to shoot 3's

Right now it almost always ends with an open 20’ jump shot for Aldridge. Aldridge can make that shot often enough that it isn’t a terrible option, but it isn’t efficient enough to really force the other team to try and defend against that shot. When Aldridge becomes able to hit the 23’9" shot reliably, teams will be forced to defend the play differently allowing more dribble penetration by Roy and also increasing the probability of success when Aldridge decides to go to the hoop instead of taking a jump shot.

by trk on Apr 19, 2009 3:02 PM PDT reply actions  

exactly

You picked up on something I implied.

Think of the extra space that would be created. At least an extra 3 ft of driving lanes for Roy. He’d be a machine.

I know less than half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.

by haildablazer on Apr 19, 2009 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

LaMarcus Aldridge isn't an efficent mid-range shooter and is totally worthless from beyond the arc, ...

so this line of hopeful, yet intellectually dishonest thinking needs to stop immediately. With an 41.6 eFG% on jumpers, I don’t care on bit about how allegedly pretty Aldridge’s stroke is with his face-up game. For both the Trail Blazers and Aldridge’s sake, Nate McMillan needs to sit the soft one down and tell him to go inside at all costs. If Aldridge is unwilling to make that necessary change in his game — or, in the case of last night, laughably incapable of doing it — then his shots and overall role in the offense must dwindle.

by AK1984 on Apr 19, 2009 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

You aren't thinking basketball

The reason LMA takes those shots is because it’s about spacing. Because LMA’s defender has to commit to him, Brandon Roy’s driving lanes are opened up.

But then, you’re the one who’s been calling for Nate to be fired after a 54 win season.

If Aldridge is unwilling to make that necessary change in his game — or, in the case of last night, laughably incapable of doing it — then his shots and overall role in the offense must dwindle.

Come on man. Have you even WATCHED a Blazer game before last night?

I know less than half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.

by haildablazer on Apr 19, 2009 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

I just detest Nate McMillan's simplistic, yet shockingly efficient high/low zone offense. While ...

my calling for his head was hyperbole on my part, it’s a major point of contention that I’ve had this entire season — as well as during his duration as head coach of the Seattle SuperSonics — and that’s not going to change anytime soon.

Also, this whole mumbo-jumbo about “spacing” is total tripe. In all reality, the lack of motion within the Portland Trail Blazers’ offense is the true issue at hand. As other posters have already brought up in this thread, the failed pick-‘n’-pop centered around LaMarcus Aldridge needs to be replaced with more pick-‘n’-rolls for the centers, backdoor cuts for Nicolas Batum, et cetera.

Travis Outlaw playing one-on-one basketball and shooting contested mid-range jumpers needs to stop, too, for it’s killing the second unit’s flow — especially that of Oden and Rudy Fernandez — yet, he’s all buddy-buddy with McMillan and Brandon Roy, so he’ll probably be allowed to get away with his selfish play.

by AK1984 on Apr 19, 2009 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wait
I just detest Nate McMillan’s simplistic, yet shockingly efficient high/low zone offense. While

Did you mean to type “inneficient?” Because if not, I don’t understand what there is to “detest” about Nate’s offensive system.

High/low zone is an NBA staple.

I know less than half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.

by haildablazer on Apr 19, 2009 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

So is spacing

Mumbo jumbo my left cheese.

I know less than half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.

by haildablazer on Apr 19, 2009 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

I've never argued the efficiency of the high/low zone offense, but rather how the basic ...

nature of it would be problematic come playoff time. Nate McMillan’s playbook hasn’t ever included enough variety in it — which was plainly evident during his tenure with the Seattle SuperSonics — and now it’s coming back to bite him.

McMillan, moreover, has a penchant for giving mid-range jump shooters too much leeway in taking stupid field-goal attempts. Without a doubt, that’s a big problem when inefficient scorers in LaMarcus Aldridge and Travis Outlaw make up a sizeable portion of the team’s offense.

Lastly, constant motion and low-post scoring is more important than spacing on offense.

by AK1984 on Apr 19, 2009 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

41.6% eFG% on 20' jumpers is actually pretty good

Any player that doesn’t take a lot of 3’s is going to have a low eFG%, even if they are a good shooter. If you take out their 3-point shots, Roy and Outlaw have about the same eFG% on jumpers that Aldridge has.

Most players in the NBA gradually expand their jump-shooting range over time. Right now, Aldridge’s range extends out to just short of the 3-point line. He isn’t super efficient at scoring off of such shots, but neither is anyone else; long 2-point shots are inherently inefficient, and Aldridge actually shots them better than most players do. Given his relative effectiveness at shooting long 2’s, it is reasonable to think that in a couple years Aldridge will be able to extend is effective range out beyond the 3-point line.

Look at Travis Outlaw: in 2005-06 he had an eFG% of 40.5% on jumpers, and in 06-07 he had an eFG% of 41.0% on jumpers. In 07-08 he extended his range to include the corner 3, and the 3-point shots raised his eFG% to 43.2% on jumpers. This year the whole 3-point arc is inside his range, and because of that the increased volume of 3-pointers he shoots has raised his eFG% on jumpers to 47.9%. Aldridge is basically where Outlaw was 2 years ago: he almost has enough range to hit the 3, but not quite.

by trk on Apr 19, 2009 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Brandon Roy has a 46.5% eFG% on jumpers, which is substantially better than LaMarcus ...

Aldridge’s mark. Travis Outlaw, moreover, has 47.9% eFG% on jumpers — although that’s mostly due to his long-distance shooting than mid-range shooting — so there’s another big disparity. It’s one thing to compare Aldridge to teammates, although it’s even more damning to compare him to some fellow power forwards in the NBA.

Effective Field-Goal Percentage On Jumpers

Rasheed Wallace: 48.8%
Dirk Nowtizki: 48.2%
Pau Gasol: 46.1%
Kevin Garnett: 45.1%
Amare Stoudemire: 44.5%
Luis Scola: 43.9%
Chris Bosh: 43.6%
LaMarcus Aldridge: 41.8%
David West: 41.6%

Now, while your optimism regarding Aldridge’s potential to eventually become an efficient shooter with his face-up game, nobody can deny that he’s not yet there. Then again, I’m of the mindset that a power forward should actually have a “power” game. That’s definitely not the case with Aldridge, who doesn’t have a developed back-to-the-basket repertoire (e.g., Pau Gasol) nor draws fouls at a high rate (e.g., Chris Bosh) ’cause of an aversion to dribble-drive plays.

So, although Aldridge may miraculously pull a Rasheed Wallace and become deadly from beyond the arc, it’s neither prudent nor desireable for him to become that type of player. Instead, Aldridge should work on his back-to-the-basket game down on the block and his first step from the elbow.

With Wallace, however, it must be noted that he came into the NBA as a small forward who could knock down three-point buckets with the Washington Bullets, is a top-notch man-to-man interior defender — which isn’t a part of Aldridge’s skill set — and is a poor offensive rebounder (i.e., the Portland Trail Blazers staple) by being such a perimeter-oriented player offensively. Y’know, I’ve always thought Aldridge was way more comparable to one of Wallace’s old teammates, Juwan Howard, than Wallace himself; those are the reasons.

by AK1984 on Apr 19, 2009 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sheed, Dirk, Outlaw, Roy, all bring up their jumper eFG% significantly by shooting 3's

If you just compared their eFG% of 2-point shots with Aldridge’s, it would be a lot closer. Before he started taking a lot of 3’s Outlaw actually had a lower eFG% on jumpers than Aldridge. Which is the point: pretty much any player who shoots 3-pointers frequently will have a higher eFG% on their 3-point shots than they do on their 2-point jumpers. Even players like Z-bo who really aren’t very good 3-point shooters are still more efficient shooting 3-pointers than they are shooting 2-point jump shots. If Aldridge practices his 3-point shooting it is pretty much guaranteed that he will be more efficient shooting three pointers than he is shooting the 20’ shots that he takes so frequently right now.

With regards to Rasheed Wallace’s 3-point shooting with the Bullets: yes he hit a significant number of threes that year, but the 3-point line was closer to the basket back then, and he still wasn’t able to hit 3’s with the same frequency or accuracy that he hits them now. Rasheed is another example of a player who came into the league without being able to hit the 3-point shot (or at least not the 23’9" current NBA 3-point shot) reliably, but developed that capability over time.

I don’t like the argument that LMA should not develop a 3-point shot because he should stay in the paint more. Even if LMA learns how to shoot 3’s that does not mean that he won’t spend most of his time in the post. All players, even guys like Oden and Przybilla who have no face up game and can’t hit a shot if they are more than 5 feet from the basket, still end up outside the 3-point line on some plays. Having the ability to hit a 3-point shot on those plays is very useful, and adding a 3-point shot to LMA’s game would constitute a significant improvement even if he ends up spending most of his time in the paint.

by trk on Apr 19, 2009 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

What are you talking about?!!

LMA’s inside game has improved by leaps and bounds. It gets better every year. I don’t see how you can say he’s not a legit inside player. He’s only in his third year. And the guy can shoot the J from 21 feet very well.

Wallace never had a legit three point shot until about the ‘99 season. He didn’t have the range before that and rarely took 3s.

Don’t you think that LMA’s ability to take his defender, a PF, away from the basket has something to do with the PTBs being a good offensive rebounding team?

by Benjamanic on Apr 19, 2009 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

No kidding

I mean, we’ve all seen the Blazers throw lobs. Why can’t they do it to the guy camping out under the basket?

I know less than half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.

by haildablazer on Apr 19, 2009 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Is this a suggestion

or is their a link where someone said that?

"Death is not final," Gita says. "If any man thinks that he slays, and if another thinks that he is slain, neither knows the truth. The Eternal in man cannot kill: the Eternal in man cannot die. The soul in man is neither born nor does it die. Weapons cannot cut it; fire cannot burn it. .. What makes you think that you can destroy the soul?"

The Bhagavad Gita

by Idog1976 on Apr 19, 2009 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

You get three guesses...

…and the first two don’t count. What, are looking for a link to Bayless’ mom’s blog?

this has been a message from: "The People's Alliance to give Greg Oden at Least a Couple of Seasons"

by bforsythe on Apr 19, 2009 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

LOL!!!!

I know less than half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.

by haildablazer on Apr 19, 2009 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes!

+/- is the only stat you need!!!

I know less than half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.

by haildablazer on Apr 19, 2009 6:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

It would be useful to bring him in for some minutes to drive and defend

But he won’t solve the problem of passing inside to a cutting man. Sergio and Rudy could be capable of making that pass, while Blake is in theory but rarely does it. I could rather imagine Roy and Rudy starting, than Bayless.

by Norsktroll on Apr 19, 2009 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Aggression is good.

Bayless has something the other PGs lack—it’s something we miss from Jack’s absence. He takes the ball aggressively to the rim and gets contact. Sergio and Blake look to pass or opt to shoot a teardrop. Bayless might be good for getting a couple cheap fouls on Yao and his physical defensive style would be less likely to get fouls in the playoffs.

by Benjamanic on Apr 20, 2009 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

If Pryz and Oden set picks then roll, who is going to be clogging the key?

Yao.

Not a recipe for success. You need to get him away from the basket.

by Benjamanic on Apr 19, 2009 7:09 PM PDT reply actions  

If Yao stays in the Key

That means he’s not covering Brandon. Which means that Brandon takes his man one-on-one.

That’s the classic definition of a pick-and-roll.

The reason you dump it off to Oden or Zilla, is that the opposition switched on the pick, allowing the quick entry pass.

Here. This is what the pick and roll is supposed to do.

I know less than half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.

by haildablazer on Apr 19, 2009 7:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

I Think If Thrilla or Oden will set pick and rolls its not that good cuz Thrilla has hard time catching the ball in action, and Oden is too slow to take advantage.

Yao will not come out all the way, and will be in the middle territory even if Thrilla will set a screen and roll. and will be able to recover. Why would Yao come out Joel or Greg cant shoot like Okur or something.

And Oden, once again, is a rookie, so non-stop fast break basketball is like fast-forwarding a song while he's trying to learn the lyrics.

by RipCity on Apr 19, 2009 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Steve Blake cant use the screen right cuz he is slow too.

When Oden sets a screen Blake should be quick to get inside so his man has to switch on Oden, who is now rolling to the hope, and Yao would then would have to commit to Blake cuz he would have a lay-up. At the point Oden is close to the rim and Blake throws a lob. But Blake is not quick or something cuz most off the time his defender recover on him after he goes around the pick, and Yao remains on Joel.

And Oden, once again, is a rookie, so non-stop fast break basketball is like fast-forwarding a song while he's trying to learn the lyrics.

by RipCity on Apr 19, 2009 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Artest and Battier will get through the screens.

I wouldn’t bet on getting a lot of mismatches with elite defenders like Artest and Battier fighting through. Probably the best you’ll get is a jumper out of Roy.

by Benjamanic on Apr 20, 2009 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

The pick and role could be a useful weapon against Yao

 If you can get LaMarcus to clear the paint and wait for a kick out you leave the paint free, providing you stick Blake and small forward on wings waiting for kicks too drawing help defenders away from the paint.

 Use a high pick and role, if Yao is drawn upward to show on the screen only slightly (he’s not going to come all the way up) it might leave Brandon with enough space for a pull up jumper providing the screenee goes under leaving a precious second on the fight through. If the screenee goes over the pick the same result is likely but with another possibility for a foul as the screenee scrambles to get back to Roy.

 If Yao stays closer he is not Laterally quick enough to keep up with a driving Roy and that can result in fouls and lay-ups, the screenee would be cut off by a big Yao if he goes under and if he goes over it is over, he can’t recover. If help comes from the corner Blake or Outlaw are capable of hitting the outside shot. If it comes from a Houston PF hopefully LaMarcus is on enough to hit the jumper as it’s unlikely he’ll take the dribble drive (that would be beautiful). The cut is unlikely to be open for LaMarcus with Yao, Screenee, wing defenders and Houstons love of swarming.

 If Yao gets sucked in to the drive it leaves the big man free to role quickly, as quick as possible to avoid rotations or help defenders for easy points/fouls.
 If Yao hangs back and Roy gets a step on his defender, with the big man rolling to on the other post it leaves Yao with the dilemma of which threat to pick. He helps on Roy it leaves cutting big men and if he stays you know Roy is going to finish it over him.

 There is the possibility to diversify it and involve the three spot up shooters in some off ball screens for threes in the corners and maybe even if the pick and roll fails some screens and cuts as a secondary stage to the offense.
 
 Is this team capable of implementing it so quickly? Normally I’d but into that, but these are proffesionals they should know it all all ready and if they don’t then they should be able to pick it up in seconds. It’s not hard.

Land was created to provide a place for boats to visit.

by The Pirate on Apr 20, 2009 10:31 AM PDT reply actions  

Rephrase last line...

 Is this young team……mally I’d buy into that

Land was created to provide a place for boats to visit.

by The Pirate on Apr 20, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

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