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April 14th Seeding Report

OK, so here's the grand seeding news following Monday night's games.  We can now pin down the exact possibilities remaining.  Drum roll please...

Everybody won tonight.

That means the standings look like this:

  • 2.  Denver  54-27 (@Portland)
  • 3.  San Antonio 53-28 (New Orleans)
  • 4.  Houston 53-28  (@Dallas)
  • 5.  Portland  53-28  (Denver)
  • 6.  New Orleans  49-32  (@San Antonio)
  • 7.  Dallas  49-32  (Houston)
  • 8.  Utah  48-33  (@L*kers)

The biggest development here from Portland's standpoint is that the Nuggets have now clinched the Northwest Division.  The best Portland can do is tie Denver with a victory on Wednesday.  Even though that would leave the teams tied head-to-head Denver would own the tiebreaker due to a 1-game advantage in division record. 

Because of this Portland can no longer get the 2nd seed in the West.  They could finish in the top four mix but they would always lose out to Los Angeles and Denver.  Portland is now locked into one of three seeds:  3rd, 4th, or 5th.

Here's how it shakes out.  As always...disclaimer...this is to the best of my knowledge and ability.  I can explain to you exactly why this works and exactly how we got here, but divining the rules and procedures is a strenuous matter even for people who should know better than I.  I am 99.999% certain this is correct, but we're not going to know for sure if there are any curveballs until Wednesday.

If Portland Wins Wednesday Night

If the Blazers win Wednesday night they cannot finish lower than 4th in the West.  Portland would finish with a 54-28 record.  One of three things would happen with Houston and San Antonio.

1.  Both Houston and San Antonio would win, which would invoke a four-way tie as Denver, San Antonio, Houston, and Portland would all finish the year at 54-28.  The results of such a tie are explained in detail near the bottom of the post here.  The order of finish would be

  • 2.  Houston (54-28)*
  • 3.  Denver (54-28)*
  • 4.  Portland (54-28)
  • 5.  San Antonio (54-28)

(*denotes Division Winner)

2.  One or the other of them would lose.  In that case the team that lost would be one game behind the Blazers, Nuggets, and the team that won.  The losing team would fall out of the top four, earning the 5th seed in the West.

Houston owns the head-to-head tiebreaker against Denver by virtue of a 3-1 season series.  Denver owns the head-to-head tiebreaker against San Antonio because they went 2-1 versus the Spurs.  Thus...

A.  If San Antonio loses but Houston wins the seeding would go:

  • 2.  Houston  (54-28)*
  • 3.  Denver  (54-28)*
  • 4.  Portland  (54-28)
  • 5.  San Antonio  (53-29)

B.  If Houston loses but San Antonio wins the seeding would go:

  • 2.  Denver  (54-28)*
  • 3.  San Antonio  (54-28)*
  • 4.  Portland (54-28)
  • 5.  Houston  (53-28)

Keep in mind in the second scenario that even though Portland owns the head-to-head against San Antonio division winners win ties with non-division-winners.  Therefore San Antonio would get the higher seed.

3.  Both Houston and San Antonio could lose.  In this case Houston would again claim the Southwest Division as explained above.  Now, however, the seeding would look like this:

  • 2.  Denver (54-28)*
  • 3.  Portland  (54-28)
  • 4.  Houston (53-29)*
  • 5.  San Antonio (53-29)

This latter scenario will cause some confusion among people because of the division winner thing.  There are two, separate issues which involve division winners.  One is the tiebreaker rules, which say a division winner comes out ahead in ties.  The other is the seeding rules, which say that the top four seeds in a conference shall consist of the three division winners plus the team with the best record among non-division-winners.  Those four teams will be seeded by record, regardless of division-winner status.

In Scenario 3 above Houston would make the top four seeds because it is a division winner.  But once there the Rockets would be seeded by record.  Since their record is worse than Portland, Denver, and L.A. they'd end up fourth.

In Scenario 2B above San Antonio and Denver both make it into the top four with L.A. by virtue of their division wins.  Portland also makes it as the non-division-winning team with the best record.  However in this case Portland and San Antonio are tied in record.  That tie is broken by the tiebreaker.  The first tiebreaker rule is that division winners prevail over non-division-winners.  Therefore San Antonio gets the nod.

Not confusing the effect of the division win in Scenarios 2B and 3 is important.

If Portland Loses Wednesday Night

This is where things get more hairy.

First of all, if the Blazers lose to the Nuggets then Denver will have sole possession of the 2nd seed.  Houston and San Antonio would finish at least a game behind them no matter what.  So we can take Denver out of the equation here and just deal with the Rockets, Spurs, and Blazers.

We'll run our scenarios again.

1.  If Houston and San Antonio both win then Houston would take the Southwest Division and the standings would look like this:

  • 2.  Denver (55-27)*
  • 3.  Houston (54-28)*
  • 4.  San Antonio (54-28)
  • 5.  Portland (53-29)

2A.  If San Antonio loses but Houston wins then Houston would win their division.  San Antonio and Portland would finish with identical records and neither would be a division winner.  Portland wins that battle by virtue of the 3-1 head-to-head edge versus the Spurs in the regular season.  Thus:

  • 2.  Denver (55-27)*
  • 3.  Houston (54-28)*
  • 4.  Portland (53-29)
  • 5.  San Antonio (53-29)

2B.  If Houston loses but San Antonio wins then San Antonio would claim the division.  Portland and Houston would go head-to-head with a tie record and Houston would come out ahead by virtue of their 2-1 regular-season mark against the Blazers.  Thus:

  • 2.  Denver (55-27)*
  • 3.  San Antonio (54-28)*
  • 4.  Houston  (53-29)
  • 5.  Portland (53-29)

3.  If both Houston and San Antonio lose alongside the Blazers then Houston would win the division over San Antonio for reasons explained above.  Portland would also win the tiebreaker with the Spurs.

  • 2.  Denver (55-27)*
  • 3.  Houston (53-29)*
  • 4.  Portland (53-29)
  • 5.  San Antonio (53-29)

The Cliffs Notes Version

If you just want to keep it simple, here's the shorthand.

IF PORTLAND WINS they get the 4th seed UNLESS both Houston and San Antonio lose, in which case it's the 3rd seed.

IF PORTLAND LOSES they get:

--The 5th seed if San Antonio wins.

--The 4th seed if San Antonio loses.

Conclusion

The best thing to root for would be a Blazer win, of course, but after that root for New Orleans to win on the road against San Antonio.  If you can get that, then be greedy and root for Houston to lose also.

Potential Opponents

In each case where Portland wins the 4th or 5th seed you can already see their matchup listed, as 4 matches up against 5 in the playoffs.  In every scenario but one listed above the opponent is Houston or San Antonio.  However there is that one scenario where both Houston and San Antonio lose their final games while Portland wins against Denver, leaving the Blazers in the 3rd seed.  Who could be the opponent in the 6-slot in that scenario?

Looking at the current standings you see New Orleans and Dallas tied in the 6-7 spots with 49-32 records.  However if you look at the opponents of those two teams in their final games...gasp!  They are none other than our old friends Houston and San Antonio.  In order to make our Blazers-in-3rd-seed scenario work both Houston and San Antonio must lose.  That would leave the Hornets and Mavericks with identical 50-32 records.  Neither would be division winners.  The Hornets hold a 3-1 season series edge over the Mavericks.  So in that scenario Portland's opponent would be the New Orleans Hornets.

The Spurs, Rockets, and Hornets are the only possible opponents left for the Blazers.

Mere mortals can feel free to stop reading at this point, as you now know everything you need to know about Wednesday's games and the potential outcomes.  Those who are truly gluttons for punishment can click past the jump.  I'm going to add an appendix of common mistakes I've seen when determining seeding, leading to all of the confusion and wrong information you're seeing.

--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)

Star-divide

Common Mistakes We're Seeing

1.  Forgetting that Tiebreakers only Break Ties

With all of the talk about the tiebreakers it's easy to forget they're not all-powerful.  If I finish with 54 wins and you finish with 53 I beat you even if you have the season series between us 3-1 and every other tiebreaker in the book.

2.  Mixing up the Use of Division Winner Status in Seeding and in Tiebreakers

We covered this one above.  There are two separate ways winning the division becomes important.

First, winning the division breaks all ties in your favor unless that tie is with another division winner.

Second, division winners are guaranteed to be somewhere in the top four seeds in their conference.  The top seeds are the three division winners plus the non-division-winner with the best record.  But those four seeds are seeded by record, regardless of who won the division.

The exception to this is if the records say a division winner and a non-division winner are tied for one of those top four seeds.  Then a tiebreaker is invoked and the division winner prevails in that tiebreaker.  But that's ONLY if the teams are tied!

Using the example above, the 54-win team is going to be seeded higher than the 53-win team even if the 53-win team was a division winner UNLESS the 54-win team didn't make it into the top four seeds in the first place because another non-division winner won more.  (That "UNLESS" can't happen this year, so don't worry about it.)

3.  Trying to Invoke Criteria Farther Down the Tiebreaker List After the Tie Has Already Been Broken

Once a tie has been broken by one of the tiebreaker rules, the process is done.  The team that won the tiebreaker is no longer considered tied.  Criteria #1 on both the two-team and multi-team tiebreaker lists is Division Winner.  Therefore all division winners are automatically removed from ties with non-division winners regardless of head-to-head record or anything else.

4.  Not Knowing When to Invoke Multi-Team versus Two-Team Tiebreaker Rules

I bolded this one because it's the most obscure.  Even I had to think for a couple hours before I understood it.

Here's the first part of the multi-team list:

  • 1.  Division Winners
  • 2.  Best Head-to-Head Among All Teams Tied
  • 3.  Highest Winning Percentage in Division (if teams are in the same division)
  • 4.  Highest Winning Percentage in Conference
  • Etc.

Here's top of the two-team list:

  • 1.  Division Winners
  • 2.  Best Head-to-Head
  • 3.  Highest Winning Percentage in Division (if teams are in the same division)
  • 4.  Highest Winning Percentage in Conference

If three or more teams are tied, you instinctively go to the multi-team list.  But before you can do that, the rules say Division Winners must be determined. 

This could be done using the multi-team list if all three or more teams tied are in the same division.  If Dallas, Houston, and San Antonio all tied at the top of their division then you'd use the multi-team tiebreaking list to determine a division winner between the three.

However if, as could happen this year, you have a multi-team tie where a division crown is undecided but not all of the teams involved belong in that undecided division, you have to break down the tie into its component parts and resolve the division winner question first, before anything else.  Therefore if San Antonio, Houston, and Portland tie and the Southwest Division lead is involved, you put Portland aside for a moment and resolve the tie between Houston and San Antonio for the division.  And THAT resolution happens under two-team rules, not multi-team.  Only once the division crown is established do you plug Portland back in and switch back to the multi-team rules.

In the event of a four-way tie between Denver, San Antonio, Houston, and Portland with division crowns at stake you'd do the same thing.  Set the four-way aside and run the numbers for the two sets of division rivals to determine a division winner in each race.  Once you've determined that, put them back together and run the four-way.

But wait, there's more.  A team is removed from the multi-team tie situation when a tiebreaker is resolved.  And the rules state that at the moment enough teams are removed to whittle the remaining tied teams down to two, you switch to the two-team tie rules.

For example, in the case of that three-way tie between Portland, Houston, and San Antonio you'd resolve the division winner question first, as we said.  Let's say it was Houston.  So now you take the three teams to the multi-team chart.  Tiebreaker #1 is division winner.  Houston is a division winner.  Portland and San Antonio are not.  Therefore Houston's part of the tie is resolved.  They finish ahead of both others.  They are now considered out of the tie and their part in this whole process is done.  Now you are down to just two teams in question.  Therefore it's not a multi-team tie anymore.  So you abandon all other multi-team criteria and switch to the two-team rules.  Neither of the remaining two teams are division winners.  Portland owns the second tiebreaker under the two-team rules...head-to-head record.  Therefore Portland wins the tie over San Antonio and you have your final order:  Houston, Portland, San Antonio.

This is also how we resolved the ultra-tricky four-way tie scenario.  It breaks down to two division races:  Portland vs. Denver, Houston vs. San Antonio.  Once the divisions are determined you mush them all back together and run the multi-team rules.  Two of them are division winners, so they are considered out of the tie with the other two.  You run the two, two-team ties using the two-team rules.

The important thing to remember here is that the league doesn't want a team finishing above another team on a technicality.  When a tie is down to just two teams they want direct head-to-head record to determine it, if applicable, not head-to-head involving third parties who aren't really a part of the tie anymore.

5.  Making Mistakes Counting Up Stats and Records

I've done this too.  It's easy to do.  It also messes things up something fierce.

--Dave

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Dave I think you replaced portland with houston in the 1 of 3 things can happen portion
1. Both Houston and San Antonio would win, which would invoke a four-way tie as Denver, San Antonio, Houston, and Utah would all finish the year at 54-28. T

by tevisthe4th on Apr 14, 2009 1:37 AM PDT reply actions  

LOL

I actually replaced Portland with Utah. You replaced Utah with Houston. It’s easy to do at 2 a.m. eh?

Thank you for pointing it out. I fixed it. This is hard enough to understand without typos messing things up.

—Dave

by Dave on Apr 14, 2009 1:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

isn't past your bedtime?

cute cat, but the smile freaks me out…

I have my P.h.D in unreliable hyperbole.

by Eat Politicians on Apr 14, 2009 1:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

I likes our chances versus San Antonio

and I likes them RAW

I have my P.h.D in unreliable hyperbole.

by Eat Politicians on Apr 14, 2009 1:42 AM PDT reply actions  

Y'know, I've spent my day drafting amendments to lease agreements

and this stuff STILL makes my eyes glaze over.

Well done, Dave – I think this is the most comprehensive write-up of the tiebreaking rules on the web. I certainly don’t think anyone at the Worldwide Leader could figure this out.

by samuelleejackson on Apr 14, 2009 1:44 AM PDT reply actions  

Here is the most super-simple way to sum this all up:

Our Magic Number is 1.

Any combination of a Blazers win or a Spurs loss will give us home court advantage.

by conspirator5 on Apr 14, 2009 1:51 AM PDT reply actions  

The problem with the Magic Number

is that you don’t usually think of it in terms of not happening. Meaning it’s usually used in the context, “Our magic number is 3 (and there are 12 games to go).” In this case our magic number is 1 and there’s 1 game left. If it doesn’t happen, tough luck for us.

Also there’s the small 3rd seed possibility in there worth noting. Still homecourt like you say. Probably better homecourt though.

—Dave

by Dave on Apr 14, 2009 1:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

indeed

homecourt FTW…

I have my P.h.D in unreliable hyperbole.

by Eat Politicians on Apr 14, 2009 2:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

I like the 4th or 5th seed better than the 3rd

as I don’t see New Orleans as that much of a downgrade in the playoffs with Chris Paul & co. Furthermore, I would rather face the Lakers or Utah in the second round than Denver or Dallas, who look to be 2 and 7 seeds.

That being said, all other things being equal, of our three possible 1st-round opponents, I would prefer them in this order: San Antonio, New Orleans, Houston. Luckily, S. A. appears to be the most likely opponent.

THAT being said, I don’t care who our opponent is so long as we are playing winning basketball and acquit ourselves on the court. I hope the Blazers play loose and free with a “shock the world” mentality.

Honor Alaa Abdelnaby.
First in the NBA. At least alphabetically

by OhOhOden on Apr 14, 2009 3:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Nah bring on Denver

I wanna show those chumps who the real division champs are.

by Zaig on Apr 14, 2009 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

Probability of Seeding and Matchup

Using pure 50/50 toss up on games.

  1. seed – 12.5%
  2. seed – 62.5%
  3. seed – 25%

Homecourt – 75%

Likely Matchup

Rockets – 25% w/ 50% of homecourt
Spurs – 62.5% w/ 90% of homecourt
Hornets – 12.5% w/ 100% of homecourt

I fear for the day Paul Allen is no longer the owner of the Blazers.

He needs to reproduce soon so we have an heir in succession.

by blzrfan on Apr 14, 2009 2:46 AM PDT reply actions  

Arg...

1. seed = Number 3 seed – 12.5%
2. seed = Number 4 seed – 62.5%
3. seed = Number 5 seed – 25%

Format mucked it up. Wooo! Playoff Lottery.

I fear for the day Paul Allen is no longer the owner of the Blazers.

He needs to reproduce soon so we have an heir in succession.

by blzrfan on Apr 14, 2009 2:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

So...

Winning = :D

Losing = :(

Got it.

by alacritybagel on Apr 14, 2009 2:50 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Losing not so bad if SA lose too!

But your’s is the best long term strategy… you should be a coach!

by QuebecBlzrFan on Apr 14, 2009 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Shouldn't the current standings be

3. Houston
4. Portland
5. San Antonio

ESPN has it wrong too, but NBA.com has it this way link. Because Houston beat a division opponent last night they have the same division record as SA so they have the tiebreaker because of more wins against western conference playoff teams.

by trailblazersfan on Apr 14, 2009 3:30 AM PDT reply actions  

Dave SHould Work for Obama

Thanks Dave, President Obama could use you in explaining his economic policies!
Just keep winning and let SA and Houston worry about the Trail Blazers !

"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot." - Bill Russell

by NOWINE on Apr 14, 2009 7:07 AM PDT reply actions  

So the Mavs and Hornets...

still have something worth playing for i.e. a reason to win, in their last game. Good.

The cowards never started
The weak died along the way
Only the strong survived
They were the Trailblazers

by lukeyhere on Apr 14, 2009 7:08 AM PDT reply actions  

CRazy

With one game left we could end up playing Houston or SA on the road
Or Houston, or SA or NO, or UTah, OR Dallas at home

"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein

by Garden of ODEN on Apr 14, 2009 7:36 AM PDT reply actions  

Looks right to me

My head hurts too much to think about this anymore. I regurgitated what our sports communications department gave me last night in this blog post, though it doesn’t have the eloquence or explanatory strength of Dave’s

by Lance Uppercut on Apr 14, 2009 8:03 AM PDT reply actions  

This is an extremely well written explanation of the most confusing and

tangled mess basketball has seen in a while. Well done! I was trying to explain the seeding battle to my mom and midway through she just looked at me and said, “You know, I don’t care that much to sit here and listen to an explanation for an hour. This is too confusing. You let me know when its all over.” I could not agree more with her.

I Blazersedge daily, nightly and ever so rightly.

by Claire on Apr 14, 2009 8:40 AM PDT reply actions  

It scares me that

I’m starting to be able to do some of this in my head.
In my walk from the bus to work today, I actually determined that there’s no way we would end up with Dallas in the first round. I was proud and a little disturbed.

by Section323 on Apr 14, 2009 8:59 AM PDT reply actions  

Yup!

Dallas maxes at 6. So the only way for us to play them would be us at 3 and Dallas at 6. BUT, the only way for us to get to 3 is for NO and Dallas to beat the Spurs/Rockets. And if NO wins, they clinch the 6 spot.

So even though we can get the 3 seed, and Dallas can get the 6 seed, both can’t happen together.

by Zaig on Apr 14, 2009 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

You're scaring me too.

I’m very relieved though to know that we will avoid Dallas in the first round. That was among my biggest concerns. Also, I think I’d rather we played the Spurs w/o home court as opposed to Houston with it.

Brandon Roy just destroyed everything in his path. There's your rational analysis -- Dave

Also: COMCAST SUCKS!

by TwoDeep on Apr 14, 2009 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

Harvey and Allen

Since I went to the game last night, the post game show was on for the drive home. I was disgusted at how little about the tie breaker these guys actually knew. It wasn’t just that they couldn’t explain it good… they simple DID NOT understand how the tiebreaker scenarios work.

Seriously guys… do a little research. If you’re too lazy to do that, go read BE and see breakdowns by guys who don’t get paid, and can still do a better job of explaining things to people.

by Zaig on Apr 14, 2009 9:05 AM PDT reply actions  

The NBA should release playoff brackets to bet on about each April 1st

I am happy that my teams avoid each other in the first round. If Dallas still wins, San Antonio has to win too to put them in 6th place, so we would still get out of the way.

Greg Oden = Robert Parish (HOF, 4x NBA champion, 9x NBA All-Star). The only other rookie with more than 500 points, 400 rebounds, and 65 blocks in under 1400 minutes played. Since 1946.

by Norsktroll on Apr 14, 2009 9:52 AM PDT reply actions  

Remember way back when

Pop decided to give Denver a game and rest his starters?

Think they’re regretting that now?

Think Denver might return the favor this week? (Yeah, me either.)

by LicketyBrindle on Apr 14, 2009 10:40 AM PDT reply actions  

Remember after the trade deadline

when some folk were saying that we wouldn’t make the playoffs? hahahaha. KPFTW!

"We have a different style, a European style," he says adjusting his jacket for emphasis. "They know it's cool.''

by sergioFTW on Apr 14, 2009 11:54 AM PDT reply actions  

Kenny Smith is a genius

Best analyst that TNT has by far.

by Zaig on Apr 14, 2009 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

8 scenarios: Root for the Spurs to lose, Blazers to win; and if neither happens HOU to win

NOH @ SAS actually has more impact than the Blazers own game on the playoff matchup
In order of best to worst scenarios they are:
(Spurs/Rockets/Blazers)

L/L/W – (NOH@POR) Get 3rd seed and won’t play LAL until Western Conf Championship
L/W/W – (SAS@POR) Bragging rights – 2 way tie for 3rd in West
W/W/W – (SAS@POR) All things equal; ending on a win is best!
L/L/L – (SAS@POR) Bragging rights – 3 way tie for 3rd in West
L/W/L – (SAS@POR) Homecourt advantage & avoiding HOU
W/W/L – (POR@SAS) Play SAS; albeit not @ home
W/L/W – (HOU@POR) Play @ home
W/L/L – (POR@HOU) Worst scenario POR @ HOU

6 of 8 scenarios are home court
5 of 8 scenarios are vs. Spurs
4 of 8 scenarios are SAS @ POR

Again in order of importance:
Root for the Spurs to lose, Blazers to win; and if neither happens HOU to win

by Mad Matt the Road Warrior on Apr 14, 2009 12:14 PM PDT reply actions  

Blazers' game is after the other two games so

for those rooting for teams to win or lose they will have to decide before they know the outcome of our game.

I hope both Houston and SA lose their games and that we beat the Nuggets to finish in 3rd place… otherwise I hope the odds you mention will pan out!

by QuebecBlzrFan on Apr 14, 2009 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is what I explained in the after-the-jump part

Multi-team tiebreakers only occur when multiple teams are still in the tie. If at any time a tie is down to two teams the multi-team criteria no longer apply. It goes down to two teams.

In the case of a four-way tie the first step, before anything, is to determine division winners. That pits Denver against Portland and Houston against San Antonio. Neither of those contests involve multiple teams. They are two, two-team races and the two-team criteria will be used.. In this case Houston and Denver would be determined division winners.

Now that you know division winners you can go back to the four-team tie. The first tiebreaker in a multi-team tie is division winner. You have two teams that are and two that aren’t. The two teams that are divsion winners are removed from the four-way tie. They are no longer tied with the teams that aren’t division winners. They cannot finish behind teams that aren’t divsion winners. That’s what the first tiebreaker says.

So now you no longer have a four way tie. You have a two-way tie between Houston and Denver as division winners and another two-way tie between Portland and San Antonio, the non-division winners.

Both of these ties will be resolved using the two-team rules, not the multi-team rules.

It’s somewhat confusing, I suppose, because the multi-team rules are used only briefly in this huge multi-team tie. But because it involves exactly two division winners and exactly two non-division winners, that’s the way it shakes out. The sole, brief moment you use the multi-team criteria is after you’ve determined the division winners and smoosh them all back together. The multi-team tiebreaker splits them immediately back into two.

By the way, as I re-read your comment I’m seeing that you appear to be using old rules. Division Winner is now the first tiebreaker. Winning percentage among the four is second (and never used in this scenario, as I just explained),

—Dave

by Dave on Apr 14, 2009 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Considering both Houston and San Antonio will have finished playing their game by the time Portland start his

Things should be presented this way :

- If both teams have won, let’s root for the win but it’s not a big deal if we lose since we’ll play against San Antonio either way. Homecourt advantage if we win.

- If both teams have lost, that’s where it’s up to you. In my opinion : LET’S ROOT FOR THE LOSS AGAINST DENVER !! Let’s throw that game and the 3rd seed, unless you believe New Orleans is easier to beat than San Antonio. In my opinion the 3rd seed is the worst thing that could happen to us. Just remember the last game against the Hornets and how it was hard to play until Chris Paul got injured. Still the Hornets are beatable like any team in the west. Another benefit from throwing the 3rd seed is we would play the Lakers in 2nd round of the playoffs and in my opinion this would bring a lot of recognition even if we lose. Losing in 2nd round to the Lakers (which I don’t expect to happen) would be better than losing to Denver in 2nd round after beating New Orleans in 1st round.

- If Houston loses and San Antonio wins, ouch we’ll play Houson in the first round so let’s root for the win against Denver and get the homecourt advantage. But this is not too bad since we would play the 2nd round against the Lakers.

- If Houston wins and San Antonio loses, we’ll still get 4th seed and play against San Antonio with homecourt so I’ll just turn off my TV. Just kidding. Only Denver can be insterested in winning the game as they would get a homecourt advantage for the 2nd round.

by chuky on Apr 14, 2009 4:41 PM PDT reply actions  

HCA against SAS in WCF?

Dave,
I have been trying to run through this in my head and with others (especially on the OregonLive forums).

Assume tomorrow night, POR/SAS win, HOU loses.

Seeding becomes 3-SAS, 4-POR, 5-HOU.

Assume SAS and POR win their first two series and meet in the WCF.

Based on tiebreaker scenarios listed at http://www.nba.com/statistics/playoff_picture.html, wouldn’t POR get home court advantage against the SAS, even with a lower seed since you don’t use the division title as a tiebreaker after the seeds are set but instead use H2H?

by MasterSun1 on Apr 14, 2009 5:15 PM PDT reply actions  

That NBA.com thing

is screwed. In general I’ve found them to be the WORST source of information about this stuff, which is ironic.

Either that or both the Blazers and I independently came up with the same completely wrong answers.

Here is the part that’s funky about the NBA.com link. In the upper part of the explanation they list “(1) Division leader wins ties from team not leading a division.” Then they omit that criterion completely from their tiebreaker list in parts “a.” and “b.” below. Unless the NBA just changed their rules back without telling anybody, that’s wrong.

Their explanation just above parts “a.” and “b.” is also confusing, as they state “Ties for playoff positions (including division winners) will be broken…” What they mean here, I’m sure, is “Ties for playoff positions (including ties to DETERMINE division winners) will be broken…” Their wording leaves ambiguity as to whether they mean that division winners are subject to these tiebreakers when facing non-division-winners. Again, that’s not the case as far as I know, or anyone else authoritative I’ve heard from.

There should be a big, fat “(1)” on top of both of those lists that says, “Division winners win ties over non-division winners.” Every other criteria should be moved down one number.

As far as I understand things, their paragraph “d.” is correct. Homecourt advantage ties will be broken the same way as seeding ties. That means if a Team A is seeded higher than Team B BECAUSE OF A TIEBREAKER it will also have homecourt over Team B should they meet.

—Dave

by Dave on Apr 14, 2009 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

ESPN has explained the possibilities nicely now too.
Western Conference
• Lakers are the #1 seed
• Nuggets (currently #2)
   Clinch #2 with win or HOU loss
   Clinch #3 with loss and HOU win
• Rockets (currently #3)
   Clinch #2 with win and DEN loss
   Clinch #3 with win and DEN win
   Clinch #3 with loss and POR and SA losses
   Clinch #4 with loss and POR win and SA loss
   Clinch #4 with loss and SA win and POR loss
   Clinch #5 with loss and POR and SA wins
• Blazers (currently #4)
   Clinch #3 with win and HOU and SA losses
   Clinch #4 with win and HOU win
   Clinch #4 with win and SA win
   Clinch #4 with loss and SA loss
   Clinch #5 with loss and SA win
• Spurs (currently #5)
   Clinch #3 with win and HOU loss
   Clinch #4 with win and HOU win and POR loss
   Clinch #5 with win and HOU and POR wins
   Clinch #5 with loss
• Hornets (currently #6)
   Clinch #6 with win or DAL loss
   Clinch #7 with loss and DAL win
• Mavericks (currently #7)
   Clinch #6 with win and NO loss
   Clinch #7 with loss or NO win
• Jazz are #8

I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden

by mxpx5678 on Apr 15, 2009 10:24 AM PDT reply actions  

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