What might have been... the Webster dilemna

by bow4meow on Mar 7, 2009 1:15 PM PST Comment 50 comments

Considering the success the Trail Blazers have shown this season, its to wonder what impact Martell Webster might have had if he had been healthy. Martell almost seems like a forgotten player, but it cannot be understated the effect he would have had as a likely starter at the small forward position.

Martell's development has been slower then many might have hoped, but he inconspicuously showed last season his growth and overall importance to the team- namely, a reliable deep threat and heady defender.

Its interesting to ponder how a healthy Martell might have functioned in the line-up with a healthy Oden. Not only would defenses be forced to pick their proverbial poison in either double teaming Greg and leaving Webster open, or manning up and allowing Brandon and Lamarcus more opportunities to bust their defenders ankles against a spread offense, or zoning up and allowing Webster the green light.

Its all a moot point now, but what dilemnas would Webster have created in the role he was envisioned to be in?

Poll

What would Webster's presence this season have done to effect the team?

At least 5 more wins then the team has now

57 votes

No difference really

16 votes

Would have made Batum and Outlaw more likely to be traded

16 votes

Would have had Batum riding the pine ala Bayless

96 votes

Made the Trail Blazers a serious playoff threat

16 votes

Caused 5000 or more trade scenarios to be posted

26 votes

All of the above

71 votes

298 votes | Poll has closed

1 recs | Comment 50 comments

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Comments

Ooops

All of the above does not include option B, unless you can explain how that would work.

"I'd rather be a could-be if I cannot be an are; because a
could-be is a maybe who is reaching for a star. I'd rather be
a has-been than a might-have-been, by far; for a might-
have-been has never been, but a has was once an are." -- Milton Berle

by bow4meow on Mar 7, 2009 1:22 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

ABP, baby, ABP.........

Pontiff of the Pryz for Prez Posse...

by timbo on Mar 7, 2009 11:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

hmmm….

and it made perfect sense to me.

GO
THE TEACHER ......come into my classroom "THE PAINT" for some tutelage.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The rancor reflected in that remark I won't dignify with comment. But I'll address your general attitude of hopeless negativism." – Everett "O Brother, where art Thou?"

by Blazer1342 on Mar 8, 2009 1:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

which is probably why I can’t hit the correct reply button?

by Blazer1342 on Mar 8, 2009 1:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Martell would have been amazing

i really felt that this was going to be his breakout year

Woof

by Charles Barkley McLovin on Mar 7, 2009 1:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

2-3 more wins

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Mar 7, 2009 1:26 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

really, that's all?

by bow4meow on Mar 7, 2009 1:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

yes

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Mar 7, 2009 1:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not even sure he would have helped us that much

I don’t think Webster has really proved that he is better than any of the players who are getting his minutes now (Batum, Outlaw, Rudy when we use 3 guard lineups). Webster is a better shooter than Batum, but Batum is already a better defender, rebounder, a and passer. Rudy and Outlaw both have a higher 3-point % than Webster had last year (or any year), and both of them also have some other skills that Webster does not have. If Webster were healthy he would probably be getting playing time instead of Batum, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that the Blazers would be doing better than they have been with Batum.

by trk on Mar 7, 2009 2:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd say 2 more wins

Batum has had games where his offense has been a major liability. Outlaw has had games where he’s a major liability on D. Webster would be useful as a guy who’s a more consistent 2 way player. 3 more wins is pushing it though.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Mar 7, 2009 2:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Consistent?

When has Webster ever shown any consistency? Isn’t Webster the guy who everyone was saying had problems with his confidence that often made him disappear when he was playing? With Webster we might win 2 games we would otherwise loose, but we could just as easily loose 2 games that we might have won by playing Batum or Outlaw instead.

by trk on Mar 7, 2009 3:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

consistency is a relative term with Blazer SFs

I believe Webster would indeed be much more consistent hitting corner 3s than Nic and less likely to make a defensive blunder than Travis.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Mar 7, 2009 3:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The numbers don't really agree with you

Webster last year shot the exact same % from 3 as Rudy, and rebounded and shot nearly the exact same % from deep as Trout (.7% worse on more shots, and .2 rpg fewer in nearly identical minutes). Assuming that he were to improve at all this offseason, he’d be having a better year than those guys, at least in terms of his ability to provide a deep threat.

Batum’s been such an offensive liability for what we ask our SF to do (sit in the corner and shoot threes), that we’ve been unable to play him down the stretch a lot of the time, and so we’re left with either a 3 guard lineup with Rudy out there or Trout at SF in order to generate points. Even last year Martell was a better perimeter defender than Trout, so I’d assume based on his intense set of offseason conditioning that he would have widened the gap. Even if you’re not willing to admit there isn’t a huge gap between Webster and Batum defensively (potentially there is, but not until Nic puts on about 25 lbs), I think you’d have to say he’d be better than either Trout or Rudy on D this year.

Like jk said, probably about 2-3 wins sounds right, but I have a feeling we’d be a little more competitive in some games as well.

by Royster on Mar 7, 2009 2:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The numbers certainly don't support Webster

Last year Webster had a lower adjusted +- than Batum, Outlaw, or Rudy have this year, he had a PER that is lower than Outlaw or Rudy and equal to Batum (who impacts the game in a lot of ways that don’t show up on the stat sheet), and he had a winscore/minute that is less than Outlaw, Rudy, or Batum. Are there any statistical models that support the idea that Webster is better than any of our current SFs?

by trk on Mar 7, 2009 3:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think people were assuming Webster would take another step forward in his play

we certainly don’t know for sure that he would have, but he made a big jump from year 2 to year 3, and he looked awfully good in preseason.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Mar 7, 2009 3:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

not really

the only game he played in was the blowout of Sac and he was 1-4 from 3 and while he did hit all of his other shots,

A. it was against Sac and

B. 2 of his buckets were on amazing passes from Rudy

And that was all we got to see of him for the season, one good home game against Sac in the preseason.

I have had this feeling that all some people can remember is that last game, which yes he did look pretty good, and extrapolate that out for the entire season, which is wrong.

He would still be that inconsistent 3pt shooter who would get burned on D.

"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08

by SpyderRyder on Mar 7, 2009 4:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think there is a lot of truth to what you wrote there

I still think Webster would have had a jump in his production. We’ll never know for sure.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Mar 7, 2009 4:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

He does get overly credited for his one game this preseason

but given how he gets so overly dogged on for being inconsistent, it evens out. He shot the exact same % from three as Rudy this year, essentially the same as Trout, and rebounds as much as Travis does also. The difference between his offense and Nic’s is massive, too. Maybe Martell hovered between below average and great on offense, but Nic has gone from solid, to flat out stinking on offense this year for extended stretches. Including one stretch with a total of 3 points from 6 games (on 12 shots!!), and 11 points from 7 games (on 13 shots). Unless you’re some sort of mutant hybrid between Scottie Pippen and Bill Russell, no amount of defensive performance can make up for those numbers.

For all the hate Martell gets, he was still our 4th leading scorer last year and probably our most dedicated offseason worker not named Brandon. Obviously he’s not CP or Deron, but he’s not exactly chopped liver out there.

by Royster on Mar 7, 2009 4:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

true but

if you look at the fact that both Rudy and Nic are rookies coming from Euro then that tilts the scales in their favor over Webster who was in his 3rd year last year.

Matrell is a career 11.6 PER with a high of 12 compared to Travis with a career 15 and high of 16.4 and Nic with a 12 currently in his rookie year. What is scary is that PER does not take into account D which elevates Nic over Webster and lowers TO a bit.

Lastly Nic has a .526 eFG and a .505 TS% compared to Websters career .535 and .501 so in all effect, they shoot close to the same percentage overall.

All in all it comes down to this question, Who would you rather have starting@ SF for us? Nic of Webster?

To me it is Nic.

"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08

by SpyderRyder on Mar 7, 2009 10:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

What do career numbers even matter?

Webster’s first two years he was thrown on some of the worst Blazer teams in history. You really think Batum’s numbers would be any better playing alongside Z-Bo, Miles and Bassy?

Travis, despite markedly improving his efficiency(TS/eFG) this year is still just below what Martell was at last year. Unless you want to operate under the assumption that Martell wasn’t going to improve at all over last year, you’d have to go with Webster.

Also, despite being rookies, Webster is younger than Rudy and only 2 years older than Nic, so let’s not make it out like we’re talking about a grizzled vet compared to some wet behind the ears high schoolers here. Nic’s allowed opposing SFs to have a PER of 17.0 when he’s been on the floor. For Webster last year, that number was 16.6 in far more minutes, which supports my thesis of Nic’s defense right now being a lot more about flash than straight up fundamentals.

While the rookie argument may hold water in the long run, we’re talking about who would be a better starting SF right now, and I’d start a healthy Webster over those guys in a heart beat.

Besides, your original argument was that he was an inconsistent 3 pt shooter who gets burned on D, when the numbers show Batum is significantly worse from deep, and about as effective in on ball defense, and yet you don’t hold that against him?

by Royster on Mar 7, 2009 11:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

so..

you want to compare Websters first few years in the league to Travis’? Travis was drafted in the heart of the JB era and had to fight through just as much if not more than Webster.

Secondly you are not actually comparing the defensive output of a first year euro rook to a 3rd year nba player are you? Even comparing 2nd year players to rooks is not fair, just look at the rookie/soph game and the rookies have won only once since its inception and that was the 2002 class of Wade, Lebron, Bosh and Melo.

I said that is what Webster is, not what Batum is. Batum has more blocks and steal per minute and is much better off the ball on D as well as being able to G quicker PGs. Do you think that Nate or any coach would even think of putting Webster on parker or Williams?

What I am saying and the stats back up, is that Nic is as good all around as a rook as Webster has ever been. Their shooting % are very similar, but his D is unquestionably better than Websters will be. And the great thing is that he will only get better.

His PER and shooting %s are the same in his first year and his D is just as good statistically and much better just eyeing it.

The same could be said of Jack v. Bayless but not many people would be willing to redo that trade and reverse the positions because of Bayless’ potential.

"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08

by SpyderRyder on Mar 7, 2009 11:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Nate has put Martell

on Monta Ellis before, just off the top of my head, so I think that signifies his willingness to put him on the quickest players in the league.

My point is, Webster would be better this year than Nic is this year, and probably next year as well. If we have this conversation in 3-5 years, the answer is probably different, but we’re not talking about 5 years from now, we’re talking about who would be better now. Nic unquestionably has benefited from playing on a much better team than Webster ever has, and only in some alternate reality is shooting ~39% from three “very similar” to shooting 35%.

The role of our SF has been primarily to shoot threes and stretch the floor. Nic hasn’t been able to do this, which has resulted in us being forced to play a lot of 3 guard lineups down the stretch of games, which are unquestionably worse defensively than a lineup with Webster would be.

As far as career stats, I never mentioned Travis’s, only focusing on his production this and his past year. And yes, it’s obvious that Travis gets a pass on those first two years because he’s essentially treated as an “equal” to these guys developmentally despite being our third oldest player in the rotation.

All of the assumptions you’re making are based on the assumption that Martell wouldn’t improve on his numbers at all from last year. If his efficiency numbers improved as much as Trout’s have this year, his TS% would be 59%, which would be a far sight better than Nic’s this year.

I’m not saying that Martell is definitely better in the long run, but the OP asked, would we be better THIS YEAR with Martell, and unless you think he would’ve regressed for some reason, I think it’s pretty clear that his numbers would be superior to Batum’s.

by Royster on Mar 7, 2009 11:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

No doubt.

If Webster was healthy Batum wouldn’t have seen the light of day. Webster was shooting 39% from three when apposing defenses weren’t nearly as stretched out. Roy gets more defensive attention this year not to mention Oden.

By all acounts, Webster worked hard over the summer and was tearing it up in camp. Even if his game only improved slightly he’s still miles ahead of Batum right now. I don’t think there is much question that Webster would have helped this team out quite a bit this year.

by Nick Van Excellent on Mar 8, 2009 7:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Nearly every Blazer's numbers

Not sure what numbers you’re looking at, but based on David Berri’s site, using the final numbers from last year and the mid-season numbers from this year, Webster’s WP48 last year is double what Trout’s is this year. Unless this has completely changed in the last 15 games or so, it’d help if you actually checked the numbers before you just posted generalities like that.

Bottom line, everyone has made huge jumps forward in their stats this year according to wins produced. Being on a better team does that. Even if Webster only improved as much as Outlaw, even that is unlikely, given his professed offseason commitment and the fact that he’s younger, he’d still be more productive than Batum and Outlaw.

As far as adjusted +/-, if you’re using that to measure Batum’s effect on the team, then something’s wrong. I direct you to the following explanation from 82games.com explaining its limitations:

It is important to note that the adjusted +/- rating is not a "holy grail" statistic that perfectly captures each player’s overall value. The ratings reported here are limited by a number of factors. First, because they are estimates calculated using a complex statistical model, such ratings tend to be somewhat "noisy" with substantial estimation error unless a very large sample of games is used. In practice, even a full NBA season does not provide an adequate sample size to fully eliminate this issue. The use of only half a season’s worth of data exacerbates the problem, as indicated by the relatively high standard errors presented below. Additionally, the estimates suffer from the issue of skewed sampling – the fact that most players usually find themselves on the court in the company of certain teammates and not others. As a result, it can be difficult to accurately tease out the individual effects of two players who almost always appear on the court together

Given the small sample size and that Nic plays 90% of his minutes with our best players, I think it’s safe to say his data would be skewed there.

But I will grant you that if Martell were to come in this season and not improve at all over last we wouldn’t see a huge difference in the win total.

by Royster on Mar 7, 2009 4:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You are right about win score

It turns out that the stat I was looking at was win share, which is different (why do basketball stat gurus have to use such similar names for their metrics). I guess it makes sense that Berri would favor Webster over Outlaw, since he undervalues scoring and greatly penalizes players for playing at PF rather than SF. I wouldn’t put too much faith in Berri’s stats though, it has been shown by Lewin and Rosenbaum that Berri’s Wins Produced metric is significantly outperformed by other metrics like PER, and even by “naive” stats like NBA Efficiency and points per game.

As for Adjusted +-, you are right that it has a lot of noise which makes it difficult to separate out the contributions of individual players. That is why there is always a “standard error” provided with adjusted +- numbers. In this case, Rudy and Batum both outperform Webster to the point where if you sum the standard errors on their +- ratings with Webster’s standard error, the resulting sum is still significantly less than the distance between their ratings and Websters. It is possible that Batum/Rudy are overrated and Webster is underrated by adjusted +- to the point where Webster is better than they are, but the odds are heavily against it.

by trk on Mar 7, 2009 5:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

While true that WP48

does have some issues, saying it undervalues scoring is misleading. It penalizes inefficient scoring more harshly than other metrics, which I see as a good thing, and you’d have to have some serious Trout-colored glasses on to say he’s an efficient scorer. It does tend to overvalue rebounds, as the presentation (thanks, hadn’t seen that before) linked state, but given that Travis has been mediocre at best when playing SF (13.7 PER the last two years according to 82games.com), I’d say it’s fair to give him the PF position adjustment, even if it’s not entirely clear that Berri does. Plus, the fact remains, if there was a clear difference between their numbers, the adjustment wouldn’t matter. Trout was a lot worse than Webs last year, and his numbers this year are still significantly worse than Webster’s were last year.

My issue with adjusted +/- has less to do with the small sample size argument against it, but this stated flaw:

Additionally, the estimates suffer from the issue of skewed sampling – the fact that most players usually find themselves on the court in the company of certain teammates and not others. As a result, it can be difficult to accurately tease out the individual effects of two players who almost always appear on the court together

Literally, something like 90% of Nic’s minutes come with Brandon and Lamarcus on the floor, so I’d expect his rating to be closely tied to those two’s, which is stellar. Even if some of the effects can be teased out by looking at Brandon’s +/- without Nic on the court, I still have my doubts about how much that’s able to compensate for it. Plus, the adjusted +/- stats for us last year have some extremely strange idiosyncrasies, i.e. Channing as our 2nd best player, Blake as our third worst (not counting Sergio), Brandon behind Trout, Joel, Channing and James Jones. Something strange is obviously going on with that team’s numbers.

Still, I appreciate getting to look at Levin’s presentation. Good stuff.

by Royster on Mar 7, 2009 6:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The problem with penalizing inefficient scoring as much as Berri does

is that volume scorers tend to make their teammates more efficient. The volume scorers receive more attention from the defense and are more likely to end up taking difficult shots at the end of the shot clock if the team can’t set up an easy shot. If a team fields a lineup which consists only of low-volume but high-efficiency scorers, it will find that now that those low volume scorers have to create their own shots they will become less efficient. Some studies, like this one, have been done to try and measure this effect.

by trk on Mar 7, 2009 7:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Really interesting study

although looking through some of the discussion on the sonicscentral board that I can understand, being an engineer but without much statistics background, it seems as if the only real conclusion that can be drawn from this is that a lineup solely composed of low usage high efficiency guys won’t perform as well as you’d expect it to, while there are potentially some gains for the lineups consisting of more higher usage players.

However, where it seems to fail in my eyes is that the main conclusion plotted on the graph is that one performs better than expected based on the efficiency numbers, while the other performs worse than expected, but if the efficiency numbers for one lineup are already significantly higher, than the overall efficiency should still be greater with a slightly lower usage lineup than a lineup consisting of entirely high usage players.

For example, if you surround Roy with a bunch of high usage-low efficiency players, maybe they’ll have an expected ORtg of 105, but in actuality, this may be 106, according to the research. However, if you have Roy, and then a bunch of low usage-high efficiency players, the expected ORtg may be 110, but is actually 108.

Until the data can get expanded out over a couple years and we see a more pronounced effect, I see this as mainly of use in terms of finding which lineups to avoid. Since the effects on lineup offensive rating are comparatively small, it’s still preferable to have higher efficiency-low usage role players around a star, just not as as much of a hit to have higher usage-slightly less efficient guys out there also.

Of course, the high usage-high efficiency guys are the stars of the league, so you’d want them out there anyways.

by Royster on Mar 7, 2009 9:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

He looked so good in that first game.

He was cutting to the basket more than I’ve ever seen him. He’s a dynamite 3 point shooter who plays better defense than Rudy or Outlaw. I think he would have made a bigger impact than any of our rookies except maybe Greg.

by Nick Van Excellent on Mar 7, 2009 5:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think the impact would have been that great (for the team, it likely would have been big for Batum)

Maybe if the opposition would leave Martell as open as they sometimes leave Nic for set shots, he could make considerably more of those but on the other hand they likely would cover him closer. With his slow lateral quickness I didn’t yet see Martell as a consistently better defender than Travis, much less Nic. Or a better transition and isolation scorer than Travis off the dribble. Hopefully next year we can see that he has added a lot to his game until then. Like all our wings it seems like he still has to work on fundamentals to reach his full potential.

by Norsktroll on Mar 7, 2009 1:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

He was supposed to be much improved this year according to Kevin Pritchard.

I think we would have seen a new Martell.

by Nick Van Excellent on Mar 7, 2009 5:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Disagree on lateral quickness . . .

Martell has more lateral quickness than Batum or TO. I think
Batum may be a slightly better defender than Martell, but certainly
not more physical. The improvement Martell made last year was buying
into the concept of being a defensive stopper. In my experience of working
with young athlete’s 15 – 24, I’ve found the mental aspect of accepting a
difficult task and application of work, fundamentals and desire takes a little
time. Martell has undeniable athletic tools, especially after two straight summers
of strength/core training, sports mental psychology training and playing at Pauley.
I was at the Fan Fest and continued to be impressed by Martell’s athleticism
and conditioning. He still had some elements of not exerting himself offensively in the 1st
half, but came out in the 2nd half by turning up his aggression.
I’ve long been a Martell fan and think he, LaMarcus and BRoy are the three
most well rounded players on this team. Size, strength, athleticism, shooting/scoring
ability and intelligence (BBIQ if you want) to become very good players. With the consistant
improvement I’ve seen in driving to the bucket (w/ openings), natural shooting form, ability
to run the curl (catch & shoot) and unselfishness, his foot injury is a major setback to
the team in my mind. He was aggressive with his defensive rebounding, showing excellent
ability to get up the court and could finish at the basket. He just needed another year to
really blossom. Get well 3M !!

It's GO time !

by walkoff41 on Mar 8, 2009 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like him and sure hope he improves/has improved, but I didn't see enough evidence yet

He might be the best spot up shooter on the team (catch and shoot or around a pick)
But he has never scored more than 30 points in a game despite his one monster quarter
He has the tools to be a good defender, but hasn’t proven yet that he can do it consistently. He often gets out of position like Travis, which also doesn’t help his rebounding
I think he is rather slow laterally while extremely quick in straight lines
Like Travis he doesn’t dribble all that well with his off hand
Unlike Travis he has problems creating separation for iso shots

That’s what I meant with having to work on fundamentals. He can do it and I liked how he collaborated with Rudy in pre-season, but it’s too early to know if he will be a real upgrade for us to bring that position to above average starter quality.

Check his DraftExpress profile from last September and Hollinger’s take on him if you don’t believe me. Other people are seeing it as well: “Decent” lateral movement, “Not a good ball handler”, hoping that he improves his midrange game, “lacks foot quickness”, “lacks some experience and savvy on this end”, etc.

by Norsktroll on Mar 8, 2009 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was stoked to see Martel this season.

The guy is a huge threat out there. Instead of having Batum out on the 3 line we would have an assassin lurking that would have to be followed closely. This would open up everything for Brandon and L.A. in the middle. It just hurts we probably wont see that this season.

by JmarcL4 on Mar 7, 2009 1:53 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

6-7 wins

bayless leaves over my dead body

by thomasikehara on Mar 7, 2009 2:50 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

"Only" 2-3 wins

As in the difference between 2 and 6 seed right now.

by Zaig on Mar 7, 2009 3:25 PM PST reply actions 2 recs

+1

I miss Marty. Come back soon!

by mannyfresh1 on Mar 7, 2009 3:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh snap!

by Eventine on Mar 7, 2009 4:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

three to four wins,

and Batum doesn’t develop as quickly, Outlaw plays better, with lees confidence issues, everyones is more successfull in the paint. We see alot more effort in the paint from the starting lineup, namely Aldridge. Batum misses a rediculous amount from three, I literally hate seeing him with the ball beyond the arc. This has adversly affected our offence. I also no longer subscribe to the illution that Batum is any kind of premier defender, it’s now more of an idea we subscribe to to comfort ourselves. Sure he has the body, and can grow into our perception of him, but he’s not imune by any means from losing his man and being out of position. I agree with the sentament that he’s fundamentaly better then outlaw, but not Webster. I think Webster would be playing an all around better game then either of these two offer combined.

Q: Do you feel the city of Portland still wants you?

A: I know this team does, the organization does. Everybody else, I don't worry about that. We worry about our family right here (in the locker room). I know I got their back and I know they're behind me.

by maid tu rek on Mar 7, 2009 5:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Webster playin the whole season?

UNDEFEATED.

The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out burns out farms and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.

by faith on Mar 7, 2009 6:50 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

It's 86-79 Portland over Minnesota as I write this

It would be closer to Chalupa time with Webby. I miss the young feller.

I voted all of the above. Here’s the thing: there are all these alternate universes. In one of them, by the way, the Blazers drafted Durant, but he got run over by a bus just before the first regular season game of the 07-08 season. Brandon and the other guys still visit him once a week when they’re not on the road, but he hasn’t yet come out of the coma.

I would like the Blazers to keep all four of Webster, Batum, Outlaw, and Frye. I admit it would be difficult to find enough minutes for all of them.

Geez, the game is 90-88 now. What the heck? Wow, Travis! 92-88 now, 1:23 to go. McHale covertly takes a sip from the bottle in his suit pocket.

More great plays by Travis! Say B4M, thanks for providing this little forum where I can post my own commentary — such as it is — without getting overwhelmed by all the Bedgers, some of whom must type at least 500 words/min.

Oh, man, it’s a 1-point game! 10 seconds left. How can this be???

Doh! Mike Barret jinxed ’em! Rowy missed the 2nd freethrow.

OMG, the Blazers win!!! Wow, sooner or later this lackadaisical play is gonna come back to bite them. Oh, well. A win is a win.

Adios, amigos.

by CatMan2 on Mar 7, 2009 9:27 PM PST reply actions 1 recs

No problemo, Catman. Anytime.

Woke up to see lots of good exchanges and takes on the Martell issue.

I’d like to think Martell’s presence in the starting line-up would have made a significant difference. (I’m angling off other’s posts so if its seems plagiarized, I’m also tipping my hat to ya) Lets say Martell contributed to just two more wins as it stands. Two wins would be HUGE right now in the Western Conference race and create some possible separation and breathing room and make the difference between home court advantage first round and not. 3 wins? Even better. 4 wins? Wow. 5 wins? Are we that good? More? (My reality is getting delusional at this point.)

Seems to be seem heat generated over the Webster-Batum difference. Batum has really been a Godsend at the 3 for the PTB considering Martells injury. As much as I love Travis, he just doesn’t fit in the starting line-up at the 3. Batum has really filled that role nicely as a complimentary player by focusing on defense and letting the offense come to him, and its worked pretty well. He is a NBA rookie after all, so I’d have to give the edge all things being equal, to a healthy Martell. Martell would have been a major component of the offense. His curve has been progressing upward, led the team in 3’s last year, signed a modest contract to STAY as a Trail Blazer, and was excited about the team. Martell was on the verge of a breakout season, I have to believe that.

What role would Batum have had coming off the bench? One reality suggests there would’ve been no love poem for Sophia. Batum’s diminished role would likely have the consequences of a waned fan interest, and since Batum getting drafted by the PTB when he expected to go the Spurs (as I recall,) he may have packaged in the trade that didn’t happen.

Here’s something else that I could use an answer to. Webster is out for the regular season, so, if he could play in the playoffs, would he? Should he?

Anybody dare to speculate on Webster’s role next season?

by bow4meow on Mar 8, 2009 8:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I dare

Webster will start at sf. He will be aaaaaaaaawwwwwweeeeesssooooommmmeee. Batum will kick butt as your 2nd option with his stellar D. Both will help each other improve by practicing against each other. Travis will get spot minutes at 3 and 4.

But who will play at the end of the forth? Well Nate doesn’t use the same logic I would so I can’t speculate. I would wait and see who is playing the best or being most effective against whatever match ups are out there. Next year is going to be a nightmare of playing time issues as all our young studs are going to start coming into their own.

by Blazersaurus on Mar 8, 2009 10:07 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Blazerssaurus quit talking out your backside

Clearly Batum will and should start as he is a better fit for the first unit as Web is for the 2nd. Webster can bring scoring to the 2nd unit more than Nick and thus must come off the bench.

As far as your shot at Nate, clearly you don’t know that Nate is the best coach for this team. I hate you Blazersaurus.

by Blazersaurus on Mar 8, 2009 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

quite the dilemna

When it comes to 4th quarter needs, especially tight games near the finish, I’d have to say Nate would have Martell out there. He’s too good a shot to give a free look, and would loosen up the D when the ball is in Roy’s hands.

I agree the minutes distribution is going to be a nightmare, which leads me to believe the roster is going to be thinned somewhat during the off-season. I dare not speculate who that might be at the time, but Webster’s return is going to shrink somebodies time drastically.

by bow4meow on Mar 8, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Batum has saved our bacon

but Martell is awesome. The stats may say one thing about Martell but your eyes tell you differently. He’s easily the best athlete on the Blazers. His shot is the truest on the team and he absolutely does not get burned on defense like his team mates. He’s not the best player but he’s easily top five on the team. By the way, Mike Rice was saying (on the new radio show with Wheels I think) that Batum is a Scotty Pippen type player in body and defense, but not offense. That’s a pretty nice comparison.

by oregonslee on Mar 8, 2009 10:11 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Mike Rice on Batum

Although Batum shows glimpses, he’s no Scottie Pippen at either end of the floor. Will he turn into that, I doubt it. Scottie is a Hall of Famer and Batum is just too young to apply that analogy to, despite the potential.

I heard KP say on the radio awhile back, the goal was to build a deep young talented team that will grow into contention. Well, he’s got what he wants, can PTB fans be patient enough?

by bow4meow on Mar 8, 2009 12:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Right

he was definitely suggesting only the potential; but I do remember a young and raw Scottie Pippen flying around the court blocking shots from behind, etc…. Scottie could nail the 3 pointer.

by oregonslee on Mar 8, 2009 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs