Stages of Development

by NoGame on Mar 3, 2009 1:18 PM PST

The earlier article about age related development made me think of the stages of athletic development. There are well defined stages of development in sports. Sometimes authors divide the stages into three stages and sometimes four. Ken Mannie, strength and conditioning coach at Michigan State University, published an article with three stages of development:

http://bsbhc.goalline.ca/files/skill_development_whole_vs_part.doc

The three stages of development are 1) the cognative stage; 2) the associative stage; and 3) the autonomous stage.

In the cognative stage, the players need specific direction on tasks. The players are often still learning basic skills and the fundamentals of the game.

During this stage, the learner needs specific information to assist him in making correct adjustments. You will know that the athlete is still in this stage when he makes a mistake and is aware of "doing something wrong", but has no idea how to correct it.

A player in the associative stage has mastered most of the basic skills and fundamentals.

As the athlete enters this stage, many of the basic fundamentals and mechanics of the skill have been learned. The mistakes are fewer, less serious and, more importantly, the athlete is capable of recognizing many of his errors and is aware of how to take the proper steps to correct them. The goal now is to refine the skill.

The autonomous stage is characterized by the skill being automatic, or a habit. This stage can take years to develop, depending upon the complexity of the skill.

Research has been conducted into how to teach skills depending upon the complexity of the skill. Skills are on a continuum from closed to open. Closed skills are simple while open are very complex. Skills also vary on the amount of organization required to complete.

How to teach these skills depends upon the complexity and organization require for the skill. Complexity refers to how many components are involved in the skill. Organization refers to how many components of the skill are related. Skills that are simple, but require organization are best practiced as a whole. Skills that are complex, but require little organization are best learned step by step. If the skill is both complex and requires organization, then the skill is best learned in the progressive part method, where the first step is taught as a whole. Once it is mastered, the second step is taught. When step two is mastered, it is joined up with step one. Repeat the process as much as necessary.

This can form endless discussions. Where are the Blazers in this description on offense or defense? How about individual players?

Professional basketball is concerned with complex and highly organized skills. I think we should examine the team (or individual) and evaluate where they currently are on the skill, then look for improvement in one area in that skill. For example, maybe the Blazers are focusing on pick and roll defense. We should probably ignore the remaining weaknesses and focus on the specific skill they are working on. Once that skill is up to an acceptable level, they should start working on a new skill. Focusing on the entire defense will cause us to miss the real improvement taking place. This also explains why older teams/players are quantifiably better.

We should also recognize where most of the players began, in the cognative stage. BRoy's willingness and ability to start calling players out for defensive problems is a sign of his growth where he is now able to recognize problems and come up with solutions.

Unfortunately, I do not know enough about Basketball to have intelligent discussions about what is good and bad and where real improvement is taking place, so I will leave that to all the knowledgeable members of BE. I would like this to become a new way of talking about the team and identfying improvement.

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great post, this should have been more readily received

Brandon would be autonomous. im guessing he could almost coach himself.since high school, he’s forced his own direction.

LA would be in the associative stage. I think he see’s his mistakes, and is looking for consistancy in there correction, plus he is still adding to his offencive arsenal. He has much to learn on defence, but at least he’s not foul happy.

Oden is seamingly obviously in the cognative stage. He has much to learn in any direction he can look, he hasn’t mastered any aspect of the game that I can tell. Althow he’s got a pretty good handle on that whole rebounding thing, but I’m guessing his size and strenght help a little with that and I still think he could improve.

Looking at the team like that gives me a little more patience. Of course Travis seams like he is still in the cognative stage sometimes, but I’de guess he knows what he’s doing wrong, and against the spurs, he made a real case for effort being the primary ingrediant lacking in his underwhelming preformances.

Man, we should forfeit before roy’s hammy explodes, knocking him into LMA’s ear who loses his balance and hits Greg’s knee… - HurraKane212

http://www.nba.com/news/miles_10_080919.html

by maid tu rek on Mar 3, 2009 4:05 PM PST reply actions

I think the level depends upon the skill

Brandon’s offense is clearly in the autonomous stage, but I am not sure about his defense. Comments made by Dave and others indicate that he still makes mistakes, but that he is now able to recognize those mistakes.

This could also explain why Sergio plays in front of B-Rex. Sergio may be in the associative phase where he still makes mistakes, but can recognize and correct. B-Rex still may need someone to tell him what he did wrong.

I think the importance of a seasoned veteran is the level of knowledge and performance, particularly on defense. The vet is either high associative or autonomous and can tell the cognative or low associative what to do, thereby improving the team more than just the individual’s direct contributions. The proverbial making others around them better.

by NoGame on Mar 3, 2009 4:22 PM PST up reply actions

i dunno, broys d can be outstanding,

when the game is on the line. He just (seamingly untill recently) chooses to use the time the opponent has the ball as a chance for a quick breather between his offencive bursts. In that regard, maybe he’s somewhere between high associative and autonomous, but at least he seams to have made that decision. But Brandon, CAN play effective defence, and even excell, again, when he sees fit.

I think you might be on to something with the Sergio/Bayless thing. I was struggaling to assign them myself. I can’t help but think that Sergio’s been stunted somewhere down the line, and I don’t really know how that would effect his placement. But he deffanatly seams aware now of what nate wants, not allways giving it, but aware non the less. Bayless is instinctual when he’s great but heavaly limited in his skill set. He looks sloppy most of the time when he’s trying to extend his abilities in game.

in a way, this allmost puts bayless and greg on the same leval to me. I’m curious what you think of rudy. He certainly quite carebral, and plays like a vet at times, but hes phisicaly deficient, in size strenght, and endurence.

Man, we should forfeit before roy’s hammy explodes, knocking him into LMA’s ear who loses his balance and hits Greg’s knee… - HurraKane212

http://www.nba.com/news/miles_10_080919.html

by maid tu rek on Mar 3, 2009 4:44 PM PST up reply actions

Remember this is skill based

I think Rudy is probably in several different levels depending upon the skill. The skills that translate directly from Europe are probably autonomous. Learning Nate’s system is probably associative.

I have heard the offense described as simple for an NBA team. This is probably because they are going through the learning progression of learning a complex, highly organizational skill. I recall an interview with Nate in the preseason when there were 100 turnovers. He said it was time to slow it down. Thus, the Blazers play a slow, ball control game. But it seems that they are getting out and pushing the ball more now. I think they have mastered the slow, control game and are now working on adding the next step: pushing the pace. Maybe an outstanding pick and roll offense with passes into the post will be the next step.

Adding complexity is that team development also has to match the individual player development. Substituting whole units may be a good thing with a young team because different groups of players have picked up different skills. But I could be completely wrong, also.

I think looking at the Blazer’s development in this manner really helps understand why the team does what it does.

by NoGame on Mar 3, 2009 5:18 PM PST up reply actions

ive been subconshusly aware of your second parragraph for a while now, but havnt been able to put it to words

I agree with that 100 percent. I do however disagree with your assesment of rudy. I think the number one factor in his play is his lacking of endurence and sise. the skills are there, but he has to learn to translate them into play with a different style of opponent, which he did quite admirably durring his olimpic run. I truely believe that the majority of his short comings can be attributed to the cross over

Man, we should forfeit before roy’s hammy explodes, knocking him into LMA’s ear who loses his balance and hits Greg’s knee… - HurraKane212

http://www.nba.com/news/miles_10_080919.html

by maid tu rek on Mar 4, 2009 5:00 PM PST up reply actions