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Webster to return: help or harm the rotation?

This was linked in the fanshots and thought I would bring up here for some actual discussion since the fanshots get no love.

Gavin this morning on 955 The Game had Mike Barrett on as a guest. Besides showering Greg Oden with praise and then trying to explain Twitter to Mike, they spoke about Martell. I had to get into work so I missed the end of the conversation, but some interesting points were brought up by MB in regards to Webster and how he could be a disruption to the rotation if he comes back to play.

Everyone knows I <3 Nic Batum. His most valuable asset to the starting unit is his defense and movement. He's often in the right place and has been given some tough assignments that Travis cant be trusted with. Nic is needed and even though his offense is not here yet and his shot is flat most of the time, he spreads the floor and can be counted on for a 3 or 2 in each game. Even though Martell is better than Nic by a lot on offense, how much will Martell's presence hurt our defense? I think it will be a detriment and a tremendous one at that. Will his movement and conditioning be there? I doubt that after a whole year off and what, a month off the boot? Will Martell spot up for the corner 3? Of course, but is this upper body strength still there ?

 

I guess I pose the question, If Martell comes back before the post season, or in the post season, will he help or hurt the team more? If he is in the second unit, will he push Travis to the 4? Will Channing literally have -10 minutes or will Nic just get cut out the rotation and our 3's look like last year? Is that wise especially when Nic has proven to be such an asset to us?

 

I say No on the Webster. It just isn't worth it. He should recover, rest and be healthy and ready for next season.

 

What say you?

 

Sophia

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The team is thin at the 3. Need Webster as soon as he can go without aggravating his injury.

Batum is the only real small forward in the lineup and he’s a rookie!

Outlaw = skinny athletic power fwd with range

Dunk

by Billy Ray Bates on Mar 23, 2009 9:59 AM PDT reply actions  

Travis = a natural 3 but plays best as a Small Ball 4

I hope Marty can come back this year. Nate’s toolbox can always use another pure shooter.

Pontiff of the Pryz for Prez Posse...

by timbo on Mar 23, 2009 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

I agree in principle but

small ball 4 is where I like to see him.

Dunk

by Billy Ray Bates on Mar 23, 2009 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

Bring him off the bench.

We could use scoring from our bench. It will give him burn and he can try to abuse the other teams’ bench players.

IF he proves he can handle it and be productive this year, THEN we can talk about moving him to a more significant role.

Give the man his "M"!!!

by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Mar 23, 2009 10:00 AM PDT reply actions  

oh...

and make Travis the backup four (it’s what he’s best at anyway) with Marty at the backup 3.

That’d be a tough cover for teams.

Give the man his "M"!!!

by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Mar 23, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

oh yea. that is like solid starting 5 anyways

Przy/Outlaw/Webster/Rudy/Sergio

"shaq and zach randolph have the same trainer... "

best one liner i ever heard.

by bowdown on Mar 23, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed

Oden and Martell need to be on the same unit. Rudy and Martell also should be on the same unit due to the incredible chemistry they showed in Martell’s only pre-season outing. Pushing Frye out of the rotation sucks but he can be saved for nights when Travis isn’t giving us anything at the 4 or an injury to one of our big men.

Why?

by Idog1976 on Mar 23, 2009 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

If Webster can make it back

I’m hoping they’ll bring him back slow. I sort of see him just camping in a corner like Rudy. So maybe those days that Rudy’s shot is off we plug Webster in that spot. I don’t see a lot of minutes for Webster right away.

by DrivetheLane on Mar 23, 2009 10:06 AM PDT reply actions  

I don't think he'll mess up the rotation because he won't be in it

I think at this stage, Coach Nate isn’t going to change the rotation. Instead, he’ll plug Martell in when other guys on the team can’t make a 3 pointer and he’ll have Martell spread the floor. I would put money on Nic starting throughout the playoffs. Maybe if Martell is really hot, he might compete with Rudy and Travis as the first guy off the bench but I doubt that too.

by tominhawaii on Mar 23, 2009 10:18 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Yep

100% chance Batum starts through the playoffs. His defense is priceless to that unit.

by keepfryealive on Mar 23, 2009 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

And B-Roy

really likes him in the starting unit…I think Quick had a reference to that in one of his recent articles

by DucRider on Mar 24, 2009 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

rec

exactly. If he don’t insert Greg, he ain’t gonna insert Webby

Tweet me!

by prezofdeath on Mar 23, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

Wait

Gavin showered Greg Oden with praise?

Was that sarcasm? I might listen to the podcast if Gavin actually gave Oden some credit.

draft dejuan blair

by Cablinasian on Mar 23, 2009 10:30 AM PDT reply actions  

I'd say keep him out

I’d LOVE to see Martell come back and help us in the playoffs but we wouldn’t be getting the full package at this point. I don’t care how ballin’ you are, you can’t come back after missing an entire season and succeed right off the bat in the NBA playoffs. Remember last season when Arenas came back, right at the end of the season, tried to help his team against the Cavs in the playoffs, and ended up dragging the whole team down? I get the same feeling here. The team isn’t going anywhere Martell, we’ll be in the same spot next year, just wait.

"Travis has more hops than a bunny in a brewery. He elevates so high his seat doubles as a flotation device."
-Dave

by SabonisBonus on Mar 23, 2009 10:50 AM PDT reply actions  

I think I agree we use him as a Situational Sniper off the bench

limited minutes, don’t disrupt the rotation. And Sabonis’ example of Arenas’ late comeback is an excellent example we should learn from.

I love Martell and look forward to his contributions next year..

It's spelled "PRZYBILLA."
vanillathrillagorillaprzybilla

by RenoBlazerFan on Mar 23, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

yup

stick him in the corner and let Roy go to work on that side. Clear out for those two, forcing Martell’s man to help on Brandon. Let Martell shoot.

draft dejuan blair

by Cablinasian on Mar 23, 2009 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

you're assuming he comes back with that same magic stroke

I’d be amazed if that were the case

"Travis has more hops than a bunny in a brewery. He elevates so high his seat doubles as a flotation device."
-Dave

by SabonisBonus on Mar 23, 2009 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't be

he’s been shooting non stop for the last five months and doesn’t have tired legs.

draft dejuan blair

by Cablinasian on Mar 23, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe

If he has kept himself in as good of form as you say, he very well could be of use. I trust our coaches and training staff (they’ve been conservative and used good judgment thus far) so if they say he’s good, I won’t complain. But they’d really better be sure not just that he’s healthy, but that he’s mentally ready.

"Travis has more hops than a bunny in a brewery. He elevates so high his seat doubles as a flotation device."
-Dave

by SabonisBonus on Mar 23, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

Reports are that he's been taking the K*be approach to maintaining his health

That’s very serious.

I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich

by hobobob on Mar 23, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

He wasn't that magic last year

Batum makes him look good in comparison, but Marty missed open threes a plenty last season. James Jones showed him how it was done. But Marty’s form is great.

Karma

by Sabonis4Ever on Mar 23, 2009 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

Would there even be a spot for him on the bench?

I don’t think he could be effective coming in like that for short minutes. We’re already shrinking our rotation and if him coming back means pushing out somebody else who worked all season long to get here (not that Martell wasn’t working on getting healthy) and might be more game ready at this point, I don’t think there’s any question we should hold him out.

"Travis has more hops than a bunny in a brewery. He elevates so high his seat doubles as a flotation device."
-Dave

by SabonisBonus on Mar 23, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

you make a good point

I wouldn’t hurt my feelings to hold him out—we’ve made it this far without him.

It's spelled "PRZYBILLA."
vanillathrillagorillaprzybilla

by RenoBlazerFan on Mar 23, 2009 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

that seems like a pretty apple and oranges comparison as Webster has never been the team #1 option

Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.

by jonestr on Mar 23, 2009 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

If you look at their usage by the coaching staff

last year’s Webster = this year’s Fernandez

Webster is better suited for that role right now, especially in the playoffs. The upgrade in size is significant.

Dunk

by Billy Ray Bates on Mar 23, 2009 11:00 AM PDT reply actions  

He won't even have the stamina to be a starter. Situational player at best

Josh Howard has struggled all year to come back to old form for the Mavs, and he has a milder foot/ankle injury. I honestly don’t think Nate will play Martell unless another player goes completely cold from outside despite being left wide open on the perimeter. In that situation he could be valuable if he is really healthy (usual elevation, range of motion to be no liability on defense). Before the injury, Martell was a worse defender than Nic, and couldn’t create his own shot like Travis off the dribble. Any glimpse of improvement people perceived or hoped for in his game during pre-season will likely have to be postponed to next year.

by Norsktroll on Mar 23, 2009 11:04 AM PDT reply actions  

I think he could be incredibly valuable situationally

let him sit in the corner, with Brandon attacking the rim from his side. He can still shoot.

draft dejuan blair

by Cablinasian on Mar 23, 2009 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

Defenses would likely try to cover him closer than Nic, and attack him when they have the ball

Like the future draft pick and free agent acquisition, it’s the lure of the unknown. We think/hope he would be an improvement over the at times off shots of Nic and Rudy, but we don’t know that yet since we don’t know in what shape he will be come mid of April. Nate knows what he gets from the healthy players, and he will only bring Martell in if he is convinced of his form.

by Norsktroll on Mar 23, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's a question of whether he's in shape

or are you saying healthy Nic > healthy Martel at this point?

I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich

by hobobob on Mar 23, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

that's pretty unfair to Martell

he accomplished a lot more than Nic last season.

"Travis has more hops than a bunny in a brewery. He elevates so high his seat doubles as a flotation device."
-Dave

by SabonisBonus on Mar 23, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

I wasn't making that statement. It was a question.

I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich

by hobobob on Mar 23, 2009 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

i wasnn't accusing you

just responding to the assumption

"Travis has more hops than a bunny in a brewery. He elevates so high his seat doubles as a flotation device."
-Dave

by SabonisBonus on Mar 23, 2009 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

Martell is pretty much my favorite Blazer

stop dissecting his chances with this weird “logic” and “reason” garbage.

draft dejuan blair

by Cablinasian on Mar 23, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

He should take Nic's place as soon as he can (physically)

Martel absolutely crushes Nic on offense. There’s simply no comparison.

Nic is not that much better, if better at all, on D. I don’t know who’s better, but I think Nic’s current status is severely over-rated (I wish I could say that sounding like I just love the kid because I do). Martel can play very solidly and has a much better body for defending the position. Yes, Nic is known for his D, but that’s mostly because he’s not competent offensively (or hasn’t been for much of the season).

It looks like there’s a lot of forgettin’ goin’ on here. Martel brings much more to the table than Nic, at this point and when he’s healthy. I love Nic, and his game is getting better. He’s just not in the same ball park with Martel at this point. If Webster comes back in shape, can find his rhythm, start him. He’ll make this team an offensive juggernaught.

Nic may be the future. Martel may be. They both still have tons of potential.

I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich

by hobobob on Mar 23, 2009 11:30 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Agree completely

Nic has potential to be a defensive stopper, and sometimes he shows flashes of that potential. I’d say, because of strength issues, Martell is generally a better defender than Nic right now. And there’s no comparison on offense.

Think about how well the Blazers do when Nic contributes 10-12 points or when Blake puts up 15-18. Martell gives you another pure shooter to space the court for Brandon and LMA, another guy capable of being the third option who can put the Blazers over the top against good teams, and a stronger (physically) perimeter defender.

If Martell’s healthy, Nic’s on the bench. But that’s a big if.

Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.

by KP Corleone on Mar 23, 2009 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

I hear that

We don’t need no if’s come playoff time.

by tominhawaii on Mar 23, 2009 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

The whole post is based on ifs. I'm not sure how to talk about a hypothetical situation

with out being hypothetical.

I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich

by hobobob on Mar 25, 2009 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

And ifs aren't a bad thing

They’re can make things quite easy.

If you’re up by 50 pts in game 7 of the playoff series, rest Roy.

If you’re down by 50 pts in game 7 of the playoff series, strike a match and like the fuse.

I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich

by hobobob on Mar 25, 2009 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think that a year away from Martell made you guys forget about his defense

He’s average…at best. Not to say Nic is a great defender, because he’s not. But he’s better than Martell.

Blazer Fan

by leeroyjenkins on Mar 23, 2009 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not to mention...

Nic runs the floor like a frickin’ gazelle. Not to mention he has an uncanny knack to be at the right place at the right time on defense.

by DonkeyShins on Mar 23, 2009 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Martell's D is way under rated

I think we missed it this year…I am relatively new to Portland and only began watching them last season as i came out here during the jailblazer years, and they did not capture my imagine much then.

Anyhow, all the talk I heard webster in the 07 – 08 season was how bad his D was…I just did not see it that way, he harrassed the players he was matched up with more often than most of the blazers…he is by no means a shut down type of defender, but I do think struggles in earlier years have carried over into critiques of his D that do not match reality…

by PDXBuckeye on Mar 23, 2009 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Use all the tools you have at your disposal

If he is healthy and can give some quality minutes play him, Why not? If he gives you better minutes than Channing do it. I love Frye but Outlaw is better at the 4 even though he is undersized and skinny but Webster rebounds so well for a 3 it would work out fine.

- Neil

by Blazin'aTrail on Mar 23, 2009 12:01 PM PDT reply actions  

Make Martell the back up SF and keep Nic as starter...

move Outlaw exclusively to the back up PF, and give LMA more rest, he plays way too many minutes and his body wont hold up under that for long.

Blazer's Edge Ambassador to The Dream Shake Blog
LMA - Putting the POWER in POWER FORWARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LMA Rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I <3 LMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by LaMarvelous on Mar 23, 2009 12:28 PM PDT reply actions  

I'm agreeing

with this guy…you got to ease him back into the game.

I have my P.h.D in unreliable hyperbole.

by Eat Politicians on Mar 23, 2009 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

3M from the corner . . .

       in spots. I’ve been a Martell supporter since we
drafted him and as a young player he still has lots of room to
grow. We don’t want to see him rushed and reinjured, but if
healthy, bring him off the bench for some spot minutes. He would
help in spacing the floor and being available when GO is doubled
and running the double pick curl for the pull up.
       Get in shape and don’t try to do to much Martell !
2nd unit – GO, TO, 3M, Rudy & (Serg/BRex) – Nice !

It's GO time !

by walkoff41 on Mar 23, 2009 12:43 PM PDT reply actions  

Martell means no Frye

PF Aldridge 38, Outlaw 10
SF Batum 18, Outlaw 20, Webster 10

Outlaw plays PF the 10 minutes that Aldridge is out and his other 20 minutes are at SF. Batum plays his normal 18. Webster plays SF the 10 minutes that Outlaw is at PF.

by Zaig on Mar 23, 2009 12:48 PM PDT reply actions  

Keep Nic in!

Personally, I saw the drop in chemistry in just the past few games when Outlaw got the start. It takes well past half of the first quarter until Outlaw gets in rythym, and in that time Nic has probably blocked 2 shots and grabbed 5 rebounds.

So it stands to reason that inserting Matell this late could have some bad unintended consequences. Especially now, when we are fighting for playoff position and every game is critical. If we can take care of these games at home, we might end up with a decent seed.

I wish the best for Martell, but now is not the time to try and re-insert a rusty small forward in for a guy who hustles like a mad man.

Go Blazers! Beat Philly PLEASE!

Hi fans it Brandon Roy.
And ME.....LaMarcus Aldridge

by Derftron on Mar 23, 2009 1:07 PM PDT reply actions  

Nothing against Martell but it seems ridiculous to work him back in now

Spend 70 games creating something only to drastically alter it right before playoff time. Ludicrous.

Blazer Fan

by leeroyjenkins on Mar 23, 2009 1:14 PM PDT reply actions  

Martell could be worked into 2nd unit just fine

If the choice is him or Frye, is there really a choice?

The third option is go LA 40, Outlaw 35, and up Batum to 21 a game, which I’d also be okay with.
Do the same thing at guard Roy 40 Blake 30 Rudy 26
And obv split center. Although I still think Nate is going to throw in 4 mintues a half to Sergio to try and give Blake/Roy some actual rest. He’ll no doubt time it to go at the same time as the opponents 2nd unit.

by Zaig on Mar 23, 2009 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

I tend to agree although

I have seen many a championship team add that right player back in at the end of the season….

by PDXBuckeye on Mar 23, 2009 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Limited minutes behind Batum and Outlaw.

When all is said and done Martell is going to be a solid defender me thinks. He won’t hurt us defensively anymore right now than Outlaw or Rudy, and it would be Frye losing any playing time he had left, not Batum. So really if he’s healed up and ready to play I say let him get in a few games before the post season. The only way Batum loses playing time is if both Outlaw and Martell begin to outplay him, and in that case why, for the team, would that be a bad thing? Outlaw will be full time backup 4 with some minutes at 3, and Nic and Martell can split the remaining though at this point more should go to Nic than Martell.

Webster helped this team last year much more than any of you are giving him credit for, I for one really miss him. And this coming from a gigantic Batum fan. Really just give Marty some minutes here and there when he’s ready, maybe dip in to a couple Rudy minutes even.

by Bskey on Mar 23, 2009 1:31 PM PDT reply actions  

A lot depends on how well he plays

I wouldn’t want to give him a lot of minutes at the 3, however. Not at this point. Given the status of players, the only players who I’m really willing to give him minutes from are the backup PGs – which means that if Martel wants in the rotation, he’ll need to play SG in a line-up with either Blake or Roy and Batum or Outlaw.

"Slum dunk? You just go to the rim, and crush.. crush the ball in the rim."
- Nic Batum

by idoltime on Mar 23, 2009 1:51 PM PDT reply actions  

I say yes to give him a chance.

But you forgot that Rudy’s also threatened to lose playing time, specially with the he’s playing lately.

by Falcao on Mar 23, 2009 2:03 PM PDT reply actions  

I just read up a little on Webster...

Tell me if I’m wrong but he seems like a slightly more athletic Rudy Fernandez.

by TrentEdwardsHoF2018 on Mar 23, 2009 3:05 PM PDT reply actions  

Much more physical than Rudy . . .

     6’7", 235/ 225 and a more physical rebounder & defender.
Rudy is a better passer & more experienced player/creator.
Rudy will take some bad shots and can’t shoot on the move.
6’6", 185. Big difference against the physical SF’s of the league !

It's GO time !

by walkoff41 on Mar 23, 2009 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

I love Martell.

The goal this year was an early playoff exit and experience in that intense an environment. Channing’s gone. His experience will not contribute to our collective knowledge next year and beyond. Martell is far more likely to be a critical piece two or three years for us. Let him get small tastes at the backup SF. Let him sit in the corner at first. NAte will put him in a position to succeed without compromising what we have working. Then he hits the fall as a vested, more veteran member of the core.

Bedge or go home.

by Ojala John on Mar 23, 2009 3:10 PM PDT reply actions  

give him a chance

if Martell says he can and desperatley wants to play, and the doctors say he can play why not play him off the bench. I doubt he can hurt us.

Momma.....der go dat man

by AllHailRoy on Mar 23, 2009 3:17 PM PDT reply actions  

I hear there are some backup pg minutes that Martell could get in line for.

Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.

by jonestr on Mar 23, 2009 3:22 PM PDT reply actions  

i say

OH GOD PLEASE WE NEED MARTELL BACK, ARRGGGFGRRGGGGGHHHHH>>.hh..

then after rolling around on the floor clutching at my stomach for a while I would reiterate the same thing, only a little saner.

It will be nice to have Martell back, cause we need him at the 3. Once he is back we will be hell on wheel (if we can get Oden in shape :)

I have my P.h.D in unreliable hyperbole.

by Eat Politicians on Mar 23, 2009 3:44 PM PDT reply actions  

martell has looked better the more he doesnt play

but despite his beautiful-looking shot he often was unable to get it off or timid about shooting. certainly if he started out a game 0-3 or 1-5 he would run from the ball and be extremely reluctant to shoot the rest of the game.

he was not clutch at all — easy to forgive because of his youth. but i remember him being fouled on a 3 pter and clanking all 3 fts when we needed them… but he’s so young.

batum however seems to have much better nerves.

ignacio

by ignacio on Mar 23, 2009 7:07 PM PDT reply actions  

I hate it when players stop shooting shots they're not making

Give me Michael Redd

I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich

by hobobob on Mar 25, 2009 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

spot him minutes if he's healthy

if he’s healthy and can contribute to the team, why not give him some minutes in the second unit? it’s not like he’ll take some really precious minutes away from any of the players. nate needs all the tools he can get. having him as another offensive option will help.

I miss Martell. Come back soon!

by mannyfresh1 on Mar 24, 2009 1:21 AM PDT reply actions  

It's not about this year...

Protect Martell’s health, come back in the fall.
Nic is doing great, in fact, I believe that Nic will be the starting 3 on this team for the next 10 years and be mentioned for all NBA defense his 3rd or 4th season.
Nic has as much of a killer instinct as there is on this team and has become my favorite player.

by DucRider on Mar 24, 2009 12:21 PM PDT reply actions  

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