Webster to return: help or harm the rotation?
This was linked in the fanshots and thought I would bring up here for some actual discussion since the fanshots get no love.
Gavin this morning on 955 The Game had Mike Barrett on as a guest. Besides showering Greg Oden with praise and then trying to explain Twitter to Mike, they spoke about Martell. I had to get into work so I missed the end of the conversation, but some interesting points were brought up by MB in regards to Webster and how he could be a disruption to the rotation if he comes back to play.
Everyone knows I <3 Nic Batum. His most valuable asset to the starting unit is his defense and movement. He's often in the right place and has been given some tough assignments that Travis cant be trusted with. Nic is needed and even though his offense is not here yet and his shot is flat most of the time, he spreads the floor and can be counted on for a 3 or 2 in each game. Even though Martell is better than Nic by a lot on offense, how much will Martell's presence hurt our defense? I think it will be a detriment and a tremendous one at that. Will his movement and conditioning be there? I doubt that after a whole year off and what, a month off the boot? Will Martell spot up for the corner 3? Of course, but is this upper body strength still there ?
I guess I pose the question, If Martell comes back before the post season, or in the post season, will he help or hurt the team more? If he is in the second unit, will he push Travis to the 4? Will Channing literally have -10 minutes or will Nic just get cut out the rotation and our 3's look like last year? Is that wise especially when Nic has proven to be such an asset to us?
I say No on the Webster. It just isn't worth it. He should recover, rest and be healthy and ready for next season.
What say you?
Sophia
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The team is thin at the 3. Need Webster as soon as he can go without aggravating his injury.
Batum is the only real small forward in the lineup and he’s a rookie!
Outlaw = skinny athletic power fwd with range
Dunk
by Billy Ray Bates on Mar 23, 2009 9:59 AM PDT reply actions
Travis = a natural 3 but plays best as a Small Ball 4
I hope Marty can come back this year. Nate’s toolbox can always use another pure shooter.
Pontiff of the Pryz for Prez Posse...
I agree in principle but
small ball 4 is where I like to see him.
Dunk
by Billy Ray Bates on Mar 23, 2009 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Bring him off the bench.
We could use scoring from our bench. It will give him burn and he can try to abuse the other teams’ bench players.
IF he proves he can handle it and be productive this year, THEN we can talk about moving him to a more significant role.
Give the man his "M"!!!
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Mar 23, 2009 10:00 AM PDT reply actions
oh...
and make Travis the backup four (it’s what he’s best at anyway) with Marty at the backup 3.
That’d be a tough cover for teams.
Give the man his "M"!!!
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Mar 23, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
oh yea. that is like solid starting 5 anyways
Przy/Outlaw/Webster/Rudy/Sergio
"shaq and zach randolph have the same trainer... "
best one liner i ever heard.
Agreed
Oden and Martell need to be on the same unit. Rudy and Martell also should be on the same unit due to the incredible chemistry they showed in Martell’s only pre-season outing. Pushing Frye out of the rotation sucks but he can be saved for nights when Travis isn’t giving us anything at the 4 or an injury to one of our big men.
Why?
If Webster can make it back
I’m hoping they’ll bring him back slow. I sort of see him just camping in a corner like Rudy. So maybe those days that Rudy’s shot is off we plug Webster in that spot. I don’t see a lot of minutes for Webster right away.
I don't think he'll mess up the rotation because he won't be in it
I think at this stage, Coach Nate isn’t going to change the rotation. Instead, he’ll plug Martell in when other guys on the team can’t make a 3 pointer and he’ll have Martell spread the floor. I would put money on Nic starting throughout the playoffs. Maybe if Martell is really hot, he might compete with Rudy and Travis as the first guy off the bench but I doubt that too.
by tominhawaii on Mar 23, 2009 10:18 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Yep
100% chance Batum starts through the playoffs. His defense is priceless to that unit.
by keepfryealive on Mar 23, 2009 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
rec
exactly. If he don’t insert Greg, he ain’t gonna insert Webby
Tweet me!
by prezofdeath on Mar 23, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Wait
Gavin showered Greg Oden with praise?
Was that sarcasm? I might listen to the podcast if Gavin actually gave Oden some credit.
draft dejuan blair
You should take into consideration that when Martell couldn´t play he was still practising his French and Spanish too. He´s like Charles Martel, the grandfather of Charlemagne, who gained his byname from the force with which he struck down his enemies in
In the Conference Finals Kobe´ll try to block his shot, putting his hand on the ball, but Martell will knock both them down together into the basket. Be aware of the Martel.
Sergio + Rudy = 16
Sergio + Bayless = 16
Batum 8+8=16
by amlmart1 on Mar 23, 2009 10:31 AM PDT reply actions 5 recs
I'd say keep him out
I’d LOVE to see Martell come back and help us in the playoffs but we wouldn’t be getting the full package at this point. I don’t care how ballin’ you are, you can’t come back after missing an entire season and succeed right off the bat in the NBA playoffs. Remember last season when Arenas came back, right at the end of the season, tried to help his team against the Cavs in the playoffs, and ended up dragging the whole team down? I get the same feeling here. The team isn’t going anywhere Martell, we’ll be in the same spot next year, just wait.
"Travis has more hops than a bunny in a brewery. He elevates so high his seat doubles as a flotation device."
-Dave
He wouldn't be a starter, he'd be a situational sniper this year...
Pontiff of the Pryz for Prez Posse...
I think I agree we use him as a Situational Sniper off the bench
limited minutes, don’t disrupt the rotation. And Sabonis’ example of Arenas’ late comeback is an excellent example we should learn from.
I love Martell and look forward to his contributions next year..
It's spelled "PRZYBILLA."
vanillathrillagorillaprzybilla
by RenoBlazerFan on Mar 23, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
yup
stick him in the corner and let Roy go to work on that side. Clear out for those two, forcing Martell’s man to help on Brandon. Let Martell shoot.
draft dejuan blair
by Cablinasian on Mar 23, 2009 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions
you're assuming he comes back with that same magic stroke
I’d be amazed if that were the case
"Travis has more hops than a bunny in a brewery. He elevates so high his seat doubles as a flotation device."
-Dave
by SabonisBonus on Mar 23, 2009 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn't be
he’s been shooting non stop for the last five months and doesn’t have tired legs.
draft dejuan blair
by Cablinasian on Mar 23, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Maybe
If he has kept himself in as good of form as you say, he very well could be of use. I trust our coaches and training staff (they’ve been conservative and used good judgment thus far) so if they say he’s good, I won’t complain. But they’d really better be sure not just that he’s healthy, but that he’s mentally ready.
"Travis has more hops than a bunny in a brewery. He elevates so high his seat doubles as a flotation device."
-Dave
by SabonisBonus on Mar 23, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Reports are that he's been taking the K*be approach to maintaining his health
That’s very serious.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
He wasn't that magic last year
Batum makes him look good in comparison, but Marty missed open threes a plenty last season. James Jones showed him how it was done. But Marty’s form is great.
Karma
by Sabonis4Ever on Mar 23, 2009 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Would there even be a spot for him on the bench?
I don’t think he could be effective coming in like that for short minutes. We’re already shrinking our rotation and if him coming back means pushing out somebody else who worked all season long to get here (not that Martell wasn’t working on getting healthy) and might be more game ready at this point, I don’t think there’s any question we should hold him out.
"Travis has more hops than a bunny in a brewery. He elevates so high his seat doubles as a flotation device."
-Dave
by SabonisBonus on Mar 23, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
you make a good point
I wouldn’t hurt my feelings to hold him out—we’ve made it this far without him.
It's spelled "PRZYBILLA."
vanillathrillagorillaprzybilla
by RenoBlazerFan on Mar 23, 2009 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
If you look at their usage by the coaching staff
last year’s Webster = this year’s Fernandez
Webster is better suited for that role right now, especially in the playoffs. The upgrade in size is significant.
Dunk
by Billy Ray Bates on Mar 23, 2009 11:00 AM PDT reply actions
He won't even have the stamina to be a starter. Situational player at best
Josh Howard has struggled all year to come back to old form for the Mavs, and he has a milder foot/ankle injury. I honestly don’t think Nate will play Martell unless another player goes completely cold from outside despite being left wide open on the perimeter. In that situation he could be valuable if he is really healthy (usual elevation, range of motion to be no liability on defense). Before the injury, Martell was a worse defender than Nic, and couldn’t create his own shot like Travis off the dribble. Any glimpse of improvement people perceived or hoped for in his game during pre-season will likely have to be postponed to next year.
I think he could be incredibly valuable situationally
let him sit in the corner, with Brandon attacking the rim from his side. He can still shoot.
draft dejuan blair
by Cablinasian on Mar 23, 2009 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Defenses would likely try to cover him closer than Nic, and attack him when they have the ball
Like the future draft pick and free agent acquisition, it’s the lure of the unknown. We think/hope he would be an improvement over the at times off shots of Nic and Rudy, but we don’t know that yet since we don’t know in what shape he will be come mid of April. Nate knows what he gets from the healthy players, and he will only bring Martell in if he is convinced of his form.
It's a question of whether he's in shape
or are you saying healthy Nic > healthy Martel at this point?
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
that's pretty unfair to Martell
he accomplished a lot more than Nic last season.
"Travis has more hops than a bunny in a brewery. He elevates so high his seat doubles as a flotation device."
-Dave
by SabonisBonus on Mar 23, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
I wasn't making that statement. It was a question.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
i wasnn't accusing you
just responding to the assumption
"Travis has more hops than a bunny in a brewery. He elevates so high his seat doubles as a flotation device."
-Dave
by SabonisBonus on Mar 23, 2009 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Martell is pretty much my favorite Blazer
stop dissecting his chances with this weird “logic” and “reason” garbage.
draft dejuan blair
by Cablinasian on Mar 23, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
He should take Nic's place as soon as he can (physically)
Martel absolutely crushes Nic on offense. There’s simply no comparison.
Nic is not that much better, if better at all, on D. I don’t know who’s better, but I think Nic’s current status is severely over-rated (I wish I could say that sounding like I just love the kid because I do). Martel can play very solidly and has a much better body for defending the position. Yes, Nic is known for his D, but that’s mostly because he’s not competent offensively (or hasn’t been for much of the season).
It looks like there’s a lot of forgettin’ goin’ on here. Martel brings much more to the table than Nic, at this point and when he’s healthy. I love Nic, and his game is getting better. He’s just not in the same ball park with Martel at this point. If Webster comes back in shape, can find his rhythm, start him. He’ll make this team an offensive juggernaught.
Nic may be the future. Martel may be. They both still have tons of potential.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Mar 23, 2009 11:30 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Agree completely
Nic has potential to be a defensive stopper, and sometimes he shows flashes of that potential. I’d say, because of strength issues, Martell is generally a better defender than Nic right now. And there’s no comparison on offense.
Think about how well the Blazers do when Nic contributes 10-12 points or when Blake puts up 15-18. Martell gives you another pure shooter to space the court for Brandon and LMA, another guy capable of being the third option who can put the Blazers over the top against good teams, and a stronger (physically) perimeter defender.
If Martell’s healthy, Nic’s on the bench. But that’s a big if.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
by KP Corleone on Mar 23, 2009 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
there is a whole lot of ifs in that post
Oderint dum metuant
by WhiteRabbit on Mar 23, 2009 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I hear that
We don’t need no if’s come playoff time.
by tominhawaii on Mar 23, 2009 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions
The whole post is based on ifs. I'm not sure how to talk about a hypothetical situation
with out being hypothetical.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
And ifs aren't a bad thing
They’re can make things quite easy.
If you’re up by 50 pts in game 7 of the playoff series, rest Roy.
If you’re down by 50 pts in game 7 of the playoff series, strike a match and like the fuse.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
I think that a year away from Martell made you guys forget about his defense
He’s average…at best. Not to say Nic is a great defender, because he’s not. But he’s better than Martell.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Mar 23, 2009 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Not to mention...
Nic runs the floor like a frickin’ gazelle. Not to mention he has an uncanny knack to be at the right place at the right time on defense.
Martell's D is way under rated
I think we missed it this year…I am relatively new to Portland and only began watching them last season as i came out here during the jailblazer years, and they did not capture my imagine much then.
Anyhow, all the talk I heard webster in the 07 – 08 season was how bad his D was…I just did not see it that way, he harrassed the players he was matched up with more often than most of the blazers…he is by no means a shut down type of defender, but I do think struggles in earlier years have carried over into critiques of his D that do not match reality…
Use all the tools you have at your disposal
If he is healthy and can give some quality minutes play him, Why not? If he gives you better minutes than Channing do it. I love Frye but Outlaw is better at the 4 even though he is undersized and skinny but Webster rebounds so well for a 3 it would work out fine.
- Neil
Make Martell the back up SF and keep Nic as starter...
move Outlaw exclusively to the back up PF, and give LMA more rest, he plays way too many minutes and his body wont hold up under that for long.
Blazer's Edge Ambassador to The Dream Shake Blog
LMA - Putting the POWER in POWER FORWARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LMA Rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I <3 LMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm agreeing
with this guy…you got to ease him back into the game.
I have my P.h.D in unreliable hyperbole.
by Eat Politicians on Mar 23, 2009 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions
3M from the corner . . .
in spots. I’ve been a Martell supporter since we
drafted him and as a young player he still has lots of room to
grow. We don’t want to see him rushed and reinjured, but if
healthy, bring him off the bench for some spot minutes. He would
help in spacing the floor and being available when GO is doubled
and running the double pick curl for the pull up.
Get in shape and don’t try to do to much Martell !
2nd unit – GO, TO, 3M, Rudy & (Serg/BRex) – Nice !
It's GO time !
Martell means no Frye
PF Aldridge 38, Outlaw 10
SF Batum 18, Outlaw 20, Webster 10
Outlaw plays PF the 10 minutes that Aldridge is out and his other 20 minutes are at SF. Batum plays his normal 18. Webster plays SF the 10 minutes that Outlaw is at PF.
Keep Nic in!
Personally, I saw the drop in chemistry in just the past few games when Outlaw got the start. It takes well past half of the first quarter until Outlaw gets in rythym, and in that time Nic has probably blocked 2 shots and grabbed 5 rebounds.
So it stands to reason that inserting Matell this late could have some bad unintended consequences. Especially now, when we are fighting for playoff position and every game is critical. If we can take care of these games at home, we might end up with a decent seed.
I wish the best for Martell, but now is not the time to try and re-insert a rusty small forward in for a guy who hustles like a mad man.
Go Blazers! Beat Philly PLEASE!
Hi fans it Brandon Roy.
And ME.....LaMarcus Aldridge
Nothing against Martell but it seems ridiculous to work him back in now
Spend 70 games creating something only to drastically alter it right before playoff time. Ludicrous.
Blazer Fan
Martell could be worked into 2nd unit just fine
If the choice is him or Frye, is there really a choice?
The third option is go LA 40, Outlaw 35, and up Batum to 21 a game, which I’d also be okay with.
Do the same thing at guard Roy 40 Blake 30 Rudy 26
And obv split center. Although I still think Nate is going to throw in 4 mintues a half to Sergio to try and give Blake/Roy some actual rest. He’ll no doubt time it to go at the same time as the opponents 2nd unit.
I tend to agree although
I have seen many a championship team add that right player back in at the end of the season….
Limited minutes behind Batum and Outlaw.
When all is said and done Martell is going to be a solid defender me thinks. He won’t hurt us defensively anymore right now than Outlaw or Rudy, and it would be Frye losing any playing time he had left, not Batum. So really if he’s healed up and ready to play I say let him get in a few games before the post season. The only way Batum loses playing time is if both Outlaw and Martell begin to outplay him, and in that case why, for the team, would that be a bad thing? Outlaw will be full time backup 4 with some minutes at 3, and Nic and Martell can split the remaining though at this point more should go to Nic than Martell.
Webster helped this team last year much more than any of you are giving him credit for, I for one really miss him. And this coming from a gigantic Batum fan. Really just give Marty some minutes here and there when he’s ready, maybe dip in to a couple Rudy minutes even.
A lot depends on how well he plays
I wouldn’t want to give him a lot of minutes at the 3, however. Not at this point. Given the status of players, the only players who I’m really willing to give him minutes from are the backup PGs – which means that if Martel wants in the rotation, he’ll need to play SG in a line-up with either Blake or Roy and Batum or Outlaw.
"Slum dunk? You just go to the rim, and crush.. crush the ball in the rim."
- Nic Batum
I say yes to give him a chance.
But you forgot that Rudy’s also threatened to lose playing time, specially with the he’s playing lately.
I just read up a little on Webster...
Tell me if I’m wrong but he seems like a slightly more athletic Rudy Fernandez.
by TrentEdwardsHoF2018 on Mar 23, 2009 3:05 PM PDT reply actions
Much more physical than Rudy . . .
6’7", 235/ 225 and a more physical rebounder & defender.
Rudy is a better passer & more experienced player/creator.
Rudy will take some bad shots and can’t shoot on the move.
6’6", 185. Big difference against the physical SF’s of the league !
It's GO time !
I love Martell.
The goal this year was an early playoff exit and experience in that intense an environment. Channing’s gone. His experience will not contribute to our collective knowledge next year and beyond. Martell is far more likely to be a critical piece two or three years for us. Let him get small tastes at the backup SF. Let him sit in the corner at first. NAte will put him in a position to succeed without compromising what we have working. Then he hits the fall as a vested, more veteran member of the core.
Bedge or go home.
Batum's 18MPG will still be intact
Either way. Frye or Blake might lose minutes.
give him a chance
if Martell says he can and desperatley wants to play, and the doctors say he can play why not play him off the bench. I doubt he can hurt us.
Momma.....der go dat man
I hear there are some backup pg minutes that Martell could get in line for.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
i say
OH GOD PLEASE WE NEED MARTELL BACK, ARRGGGFGRRGGGGGHHHHH>>.hh..
then after rolling around on the floor clutching at my stomach for a while I would reiterate the same thing, only a little saner.
It will be nice to have Martell back, cause we need him at the 3. Once he is back we will be hell on wheel (if we can get Oden in shape :)
I have my P.h.D in unreliable hyperbole.
by Eat Politicians on Mar 23, 2009 3:44 PM PDT reply actions
martell has looked better the more he doesnt play
but despite his beautiful-looking shot he often was unable to get it off or timid about shooting. certainly if he started out a game 0-3 or 1-5 he would run from the ball and be extremely reluctant to shoot the rest of the game.
he was not clutch at all — easy to forgive because of his youth. but i remember him being fouled on a 3 pter and clanking all 3 fts when we needed them… but he’s so young.
batum however seems to have much better nerves.
ignacio
I hate it when players stop shooting shots they're not making
Give me Michael Redd
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
spot him minutes if he's healthy
if he’s healthy and can contribute to the team, why not give him some minutes in the second unit? it’s not like he’ll take some really precious minutes away from any of the players. nate needs all the tools he can get. having him as another offensive option will help.
I miss Martell. Come back soon!
It's not about this year...
Protect Martell’s health, come back in the fall.
Nic is doing great, in fact, I believe that Nic will be the starting 3 on this team for the next 10 years and be mentioned for all NBA defense his 3rd or 4th season.
Nic has as much of a killer instinct as there is on this team and has become my favorite player.

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