Game 68 Recap: Blazers 95, Pacers 85
General Observations
This was the second straight dominant win by the Blazers. That's a very encouraging sign. Every win counts equally at this point in the season, of course, whether it's by 2 or 20, but beating teams we're supposed to beat on the road has an extra savor when we make the game easy. It reminds you that you're supposed to beat them and it makes you feel like the team knows what it's doing instead of just riding on emotion, guts, or skill. All of those are key factors naturally, but they're so much more telling when your game is put together right.
If I were going to choose one reason why we won this game it would be one of the pre-game keys. We kept the Pacer guards out of the lane without utterly sacrificing the perimeter. Granted some of that was the return of Danny Granger and the 24 shots he attempted, which was as much as Jack and Ford combined. But you didn't see the slew of halfcourt layups and close-in fouls in this game the way you did in Portland, even from Granger. We made the Pacers earn their points and they couldn't earn enough. It didn't hurt that their guards turned the ball over 8 times between them.
This also points out one of the real strengths of this Blazer team: they take their game-specific lessons to heart. They're young and they repeat some overarching mistakes but when they've been beaten a certain way by a given team they're not going to fall prey twice...at least not without a fight. I guarantee the coaching staff had guard penetration circled tonight. The team listened and executed. Well done. This could also come in handy in the playoffs, provided we face a team that doesn't just overwhelm us no matter what we do. We'll have multiple chances to learn lessons.
In any case, the numbers of the game weren't necessarily offensive for Portland. Rather holding Indiana to 16 points in a quarter twice proved the difference. This is a good offensive team whose main star just came back and dropped 35 and they still never got close to beating us.
After starting out shooting jumpers up the wazoo the Blazers finally settled down into a nice mix of penetration, dishing for open looks, and rebounding. Nobody had a standout offensive evening but everything clicked when we were playing right. The key, as often happens, was simply getting our feet into the paint at least once before attempting a shot. We did to Indiana what good teams do to us: break the defense down with a nice individual move and then exploit the cracks their compensatory scrambling caused. We cruised through the first three periods with only minor hitches. We hit a turnover spell and went to three-happy land once or twice, but basically there were no worries.
Our bench stepped up and demolished theirs, outscoring them 34-11. We also dove on the ground for loose balls and hustled well in general which has become a pleasant habit lately.
This was another game where we had more field goals, three-pointers, and free throws made than the opponent. I'm still waiting for somebody to explain how we could ever lose doing that. And that's pretty much all there is to it.
Individual Observations
--Brandon Roy had his usual Brandon-like game, and by "usual Brandon-like game" we mean "performance that would make you pee your pants in joy if anyone else did it but it's Brandon and we're used to it so ho-hum". He didn't penetrate as much as he does in his true superstar outings and he shot 8-20 but he ended up with 20 points, 6 assists, 6 rebounds, 2 steals, and a block.
--LaMarcus Aldridge started out cold and never really got on track offensively, finishing the game with 12 points on 5-14 shooting. He played some pretty nice defense though and got 7 boards.
--Joel Przybilla: 11 rebounds, 10 points, 2 blocks, I still <3 U.
--Steve Blake found his stroke again tonight and also passed the ball with great timing. He stayed in front of his man most of the evening as well. I liked this game from him. 6-10, 2 threes hit, 8 assists, 2 steals, 14 points.
--After a break-out game a few days ago Nicolas Batum has returned to Planet Nic where 20 minutes and 4 shots per game are the absolute max. 5 points, 4 rebounds, 18 minutes, and a whole bunch of hard defensive assignments.
--Travis Outlaw wasn't connecting easily tonight but he still finished with 15.
--Rudy Fernandez scored off of the dribble a few times tonight! Zoinks! His three-point shot is still off though. You remember how Robocop had to screw his targeting device back into place after getting racked up by the bad guys? Somebody fetch Fernandez a power drill and Nancy Allen to help him. Overall he had a good game with 13 points.
--Greg Oden returned tonight and had a sad-looking run in the first half. Josh McRoberts outrebounded him consecutively, once on either end of the court. However a little over a minute into his second-half rotation Steve Blake fed him for a wide-open baseline dunk. After that the big fella perked up plenty and started rebounding like crazy. If that's what it takes, feed the dog! 4 points, 7 rebounds, and a block in 12 minutes.
--Jerryd Bayless played 17 minutes tonight. Every once in a while you get a glimpse of his sheer speed and ability but at this point it's only a glimpse.
--Channing Frye played 3 minutes, grabbed a rebound, and hit a shot.
Final Thoughts
1. There was a scary moment in the fourth when LaMarcus went down after banging into Jeff Foster and then another, slightly lesser one when Nicolas Batum appeared to turn an ankle. It's late in the season, bodies are tired, and every game is rough. When we're up by 19 in the fourth I'd prefer to see the deep bench earlier. Yes, there's a small risk of blowing the game but now we may have blown tomorrow's with LaMarcus' concussion and Batum's sprain. (See post right below.)
2. Jarrett Jack showed the good and bad of his game tonight, staying aggressive and hitting some nice shots but also making a couple mistakes and getting down on himself. Ahhh...memories.
3. I respect Coach Jim O'Brien as one of the best lesser-heralded coaches in the league. I think he's handling a challenging season pretty well. But tell me, what do you have to be drinking to go into your hair stylist and say, "Give me the Reverse Skunk"?
Check out the hubbub over at IndyCornrows.
Check out your Jersey Contest score and enter tomorrow's game here.
--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)
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Comments
If you didn't notice Greg's quickness on defending the pick and roll and all around great positioning
then you didn’t watch the game. This coming from a guy who has been out a month. I didn’t expect his game to improve so much after being out a month.
by BRoyInThe4th on Mar 18, 2009 9:08 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Rest?
The season is long and I’m sure he was plenty tired. Maybe a month of rest will do great things for the big guy!
by danielfarrell on Mar 19, 2009 4:18 AM PDT up reply actions
It seemed to me that he altered some shots making very difficult to Indy to go inside.
Sergio + Rudy = 16
Sergio + Bayless = 16
Batum 8+8=16
Well, Jeff Foster apprently did an outstanding job shutting down LaMarcus Aldridge out there.
Rasho Nesterovic, however, was seemingly invisible today, which makes me look like a total moron.
Foster was horrible too
except as a hack-o-matic. Had they called the game a little closer, he would have fouled out in 4 minutes. LMA just missed shots he usually makes. They doubled LMA in the post. Rasho played as you described
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Mar 18, 2009 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions
From the box score, it looks like Jeff Foster laid an egg on offense.
I, however, like his rough, hard-nosed style of defense, but that’s just me.
Regarding Rasho Nesterovic, Greg Oden is a very tough matchup for him. Still, in light of the Portland Trail Blazers’ weakness at the third-string center spot, I’d be more than willing to sign Nesterovic to a two-year deal — which’d be worth the bi-annual expection — come this off-season.
eh
I’d rather take a flier in the draft… low salary, locked in for four years.
draft dejuan blair
by Cablinasian on Mar 18, 2009 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Aldrich, possibly?
If only for the inevitable confusion with Aldridge, that’d be my ideal backup center we could take that could be around where we’re drafting.
Heck, a two-year, $4,139,200 contract (2009-2010: $1,990,000 & 2010-2011: $2,149,200) ...
wouldn’t be too hefty of a price to pay for Rasho Nesterovic, who’s proven himself to be a solid pivotman in the NBA.
I didnt find Greg's first half run "sad looking"
He blocked one shot and altered 3 others..
i like gregs
+/- at +21 he was a force tonight, the paint disappeared when he came in
"Howard, he know me" Rudy
Fun with Stats
Bayless has 0 assists in his last 38 minutes on the court, and 5 turnovers. Talk about earning your playing time.
"It's like, 'Urrrrrrgh!'" Rodriguez says, his cupped hands turning into fists. "It is a good feeling. Good feeling."
is ur name short for
sergio for the warriors?, cause that would be the perfect place for him not in super slow paced p-town
"Howard, he know me" Rudy
by phillyduck23 on Mar 18, 2009 9:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, and he played solid defense against two guards who burned the Blazers in Portland.
As I mention in my post below, the logic and wisdom of Nate’s decision was readily observable tonight.
by upper left corner on Mar 18, 2009 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions
i didn't see the game, as i'm on the road
but if you are cool with zero production and several TOs from our Backup PG, then that’s cool wit me yo.
ps: Bayless logged 13 min in the home game against the Pacers, where their guards ate us (and him) up, so i guess his defense is improving really really fast.
"It's like, 'Urrrrrrgh!'" Rodriguez says, his cupped hands turning into fists. "It is a good feeling. Good feeling."
Agree heartily with sergioFTW here.
Bayless is worse than Sergio right now for sure to me. Sergio’s mistakes are on offense usually which kills, but at least he can play a bit of defense.
I’ll admit. Bayless looks like he could play awesome defense. His work ethic reads great defender. His attitude is that of a great defender. I still think he will be a reasonable defender.
But currently he may be our No. 1 all first team worst defensive player.
uh
Channing Frye?
Bayless hasn’t been that bad, he’s just inconsistent. He’s done a good job against Ford and Harris.
draft dejuan blair
Eh?
Harris murdered us one game and still had a solid game the 2nd time they played us. Ford hurt us 1/2. Ford was troubled by Greg more than anything else.
Let’s face it, the only reason the 2nd unit looked better on D’ tonight was because we had Oden instead of Frye. (Granted I agree with you that Frye is way worse on D’ than Bayless.)
I remember Jerryd having two or three great stops
at the end of the first NJ game. He’s just incredibly inconsistent.
We have no idea what he is. We might as well root for him to become good.
draft dejuan blair
I will root for him to become good
I will not praise him until he deserves it though. If that means going against people who do think he is already a God, then so be it. :-)
I don't think he is good yet
but rookie point guards rarely are. Heck, Rose hasn’t improved at all since November and Bulls fans are gnashing their teeth.
draft dejuan blair
by Cablinasian on Mar 18, 2009 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions
"I don't think he is good yet"
Right, this is why when people go on and on about how good he is, I feel the need to step in. I’m cursed with not being able to ignore reality. I’m also really bad at holding my tongue. :-)
I hope your talking about Jayless, cause Rose looks good, he was hitting everything is the second half
What's the point?
I didn't have any problems with Bayless' game at Indy.
He did his stuff defensively and the team didn’t nosedive when he was in. He’d have had a couple assists but the shots didn’t fall. He’s still very tentative about shooting, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing if your shot is clankish.
Pontiff of the Pryz for Prez Posse...
Our offense was playing 4 on 5
Luckily our guys are really good at 4 on 5. Shoot, we even can go Roy on 5 at times.
Bayless yeah
Rose is good, and unlike most rookies I think his stats are hurt by playing for Chicago.
I have seen Frye play some pretty good defense
There have been a few games where he actually looked like the Blazer’s best defender. He is inconsistent, but on his good days Frye is very effective at stopping the pick and roll, and he usually does a decent job at keeping the opposing post players out of the paint.
Your opinion is at odds with Nate and almost every journalist who covers the team.
It is almost universally acknowledged that Bayless is a much better defender than Sergio who lacks both speed and quickness. Do you wish to explain your comment?
by upper left corner on Mar 18, 2009 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Those stats are all wrong for whatever reason
This discussion has happened before. It always ends with, “Use your eyes.” That’s the common response when you can’t find a single stat to back up what you “know” to be true.
If you are correct, why do you think Nate has made the decision he has? Is he crazy, stupid, or perhaps he sees things differently than you.
by upper left corner on Mar 18, 2009 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions
No, in logic it is called "an appeal to authority"
I think Bayless is the best option for the back-up minutes
You and others disagree.
I am trying to make my case by pointing out that someone who knows more than either of us has come to the same conclusion I have. Simple logic.
by upper left corner on Mar 19, 2009 12:18 AM PDT up reply actions
It will be interesting to see where you stand on Nates next controversy,
and also weather you ever agreed with Nates decision to play Sergio over Jayless for much of the year.
What's the point?
True enough.
In general, I have been very supportive of Nate. When others were bitterly criticizing his ability to teach defense, I was on the side of patience.
I did criticize Nate decision to go back to Sergio when Blake came back from his injury because I thought Bayless had shown real improvement during Blake’s absence and felt he had more “blue sky” potential than Sergio. I was particularly frustrated when we got lit up by NO and Houston (Paul and Brooks) and Bayless was buried on the bench.
I’m glad Nate is giving Bayless a chance. I think we will need better PG defense in the playoffs, and Bayless needs all the playing time he can get so that he is at least somewhat ready for the playoffs. We will see what we will see.
by upper left corner on Mar 19, 2009 8:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh you
You get mad for using a 3 game sample size about Bayless, but then you go and use a 2 game sample size about Sergio. What’s worse is you’re even making up stats.
We got lit up by Brooks too? Haha. I will let a guy go 20/2 on us every day of the week if he’s shooting 8/20 from the field to do it and only dishing out 2 dimes. Are you the guy who hypes Kobe’s 35 points when he does it on 12/35 shooting?
so basicly your harrolding Nate becouse he seemingly agrees with you on this particular decision,
and you use that to bolster your own prejudiced arguments
What's the point?
It is pretty simple.....
I think Nate is a pretty good coach, and I think KP is a good GM and a proven evaluator of talent. I think it is legitimate to ask all those who think Bayless plays so poorly to ask themselves why Nate chooses to play him. Generally, I think the simplest answer is likely to be the best. Because he thinks Bayless has the most potential and may help give the team the best chance of winning.
How is this “prejudiced”, like I said this is a logical argument called an “appeal to authority.”
by upper left corner on Mar 20, 2009 6:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes, coaches and managers always know best
That’s why nobody ever makes a bad draft pick, nobody ever makes a bad substitution, and nobody ever calls a bad play.
They know best
It’s an execution problem.
“Isiah, WHY IN THE WORLD DID YOU TRADE FOR ZACH?”
“Oh, uh, sorry boss. My secretary said it was a 20/10 guy and I thought she was talking about Dwight Howard. That’s who I TOLD HER to do the deal for. My secretary never does the deals I tell her to do. It’s an execution problem, boss.”
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Got it!
Nate’s secretary was supposed to give him the memo all along to play Bayless. She’s really lazy and just got around to giving it to him. Makes sense.
KP's secretary
was supposed to make that draft day deal with Chicago, not Indiana, so we could get Rose. But she’s geographically challenged, and said, “It’s one of those Midwest places. Which one was it again?”
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
You are aware that some statement could fit into more than one descriptive category?
Insinuating that you know my thoughts on another individual and boiling them down to the few above is disrespectful to me. It is also a form of baiting/not polite. If it was a one time thing I’d ignore it, but you’ve treated a few people the same way already. For the record I do not see Nate as crazy, stupid, and while I’m sure we see some things differently, I would not trust my basketball knowledge over his.
A personal attack for upper left corner:
Your fandom for Bayless is beginning to appear a lot like the Kobe fanboys way of doing things. A bunch of personal attacks, can’t stand to say anything nice or take the time to try to reconcile your wild dreams with reality, and then acting like you were the clean one in the debate afterwards. Only difference is: Kobe is actually good.
Besides your enfant terrible attitude I would like to point out again that you are not listening to me at all. I have never said Bayless is not the best option for backup minutes. All I was saying is that he plays more poorly than Sergio. It is simply a fact. You and I can make all sorts of arguments for why he should get minutes now over Sergio. Like this one: KP is forcing Nate to play Bayless in the hopes that he will improve enough to have real trade value.
Puzzled
I genuinely and sincerely do not understand about 90% of your comment. I am not saying this in a defensive way because I am refusing to take responsibility, I am saying it because I do not understand how you can interpret what I have written in the way that you apparently have.
1) With the exception of writing one post that has pretty hard on SergioFTW because I thought he had posted inaccurate stats for the game when it turns out he was talking about multiple games (which of coarse was inconsistent with his statement “zero production”) I don’t see how I have attacked anyone in a personal way. I posed a question, how is that baiting?
2) I think Bayless is a better prospect and I think it make sense to give him the back-up minutes now. This is an opinion based on my observation of the two PGs. I have acknowledged repeatedly that Bayless is a rookie and has a lot to learn. I have repeatedly said that it is an open question as to whether or not he can learn to be a successful distributor. I have acknowledged Blake’s strengths and Sergio’s improvement. So how does this make me some sort of “fanboy”?
I value civility in discourse. I will not apologize for having a different opinion. If I have been uncivil, I will apologize and try to do better, however, I do not apologize for attempting to marshall reasoned arguments in support of my opinion. Again, I don’t understand your criticism. If you wish to clarify I will try to work it through with you. We are both fans, let’s treat each other with respect.
by upper left corner on Mar 20, 2009 6:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Several turnovers? The Boxscore says one.
The boxscore also does not say that Bayless had a number of very nice passes. I think two to big guys (Pryz and LMA) who were fouled on the subsequent shots and so he got no assist, and a nice one to Roy on the break that was relayed to Rudy for three. He also made several nice passes to guys open on the perimeter who did not make their shots.
But again, my point is defense, that is why Bayless is being given a chance. Your comments are blatantly one-sided, even factually challenged. It is fine to disagree on matters of opinion, but please don’t just make stuff up.
From late January till mid-February, when Bayless was getting decent, regular minutes, he had an assist/turnover ratio of 2.3 which is quite good for a rookie. Over the same time period he scored over 10/game on .480 FG% and a PER of over 15. Certainly he has struggled offensively over the last few games with limited minutes and trying to adjust to a new role. Sergio struggled as well.
by upper left corner on Mar 18, 2009 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions
i said over the last 38 minutes
where he had 5 TOs. So, i’m not so much factually challenged, and I’m not making stuff up. You can apologize when you see fit.
"It's like, 'Urrrrrrgh!'" Rodriguez says, his cupped hands turning into fists. "It is a good feeling. Good feeling."
Look, I don't want a flame war
Are you unable to see how many of your comments come across as incredibly one-sided and even hostile? It is fine to have a friendly disagreement, but your “style” makes it very challenging.
Can you at least acknowledge that there is some reason or logic to Nate having given Bayless a chance? I acknowledge that Sergio is a better distributor, but in my mind that is outweighed by his defense and limited scoring. If Bayless is as bad as you seem to believe, why do you think Nate is playing him?
by upper left corner on Mar 18, 2009 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Dude
Not discussing Bayless or Sergio at all here, but you do know that your comments come across just as one sided as Sergio’s right? The only difference is your name doesn’t have the word Bayless in it.
by Zaig on Mar 18, 2009 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I certainly think there is a difference.....
…..between taking a position and supporting it with a broad sample of representative stats on one hand, and cherry picking a couple of games to try to trash a player on the other.
I would be curious to hear your response to the question I posed. Why do you think Nate has chosen to give the back-up minutes to Bayless?
by upper left corner on Mar 18, 2009 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions
I answered that
And umm… you’re the one cherry picking “Late Jan to mid Feb” when you back up Bayless. It’s honestly the only argument you ever show for Bayless besides his mysteriously good defense that doesn’t show up anywhere on paper or the box score. (It does show up on his game face though.)
You are honestly a clone of SergioFTW only on the Bayless side. You just can’t see this.
by Zaig on Mar 18, 2009 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
No. Here is where I am coming from:
I took an initial interest in Bayless last summer because last season I observed that PG defense seemed to be a critical weakness for the team. Based on the scouting reports and what I say in SL, I thought that Bayless brought a different set of physical attributes to the game.
Throughout the season, I have followed his play closely along with the team as a whole. I have defended Oden in numerous discussions. I have been a fan of Batum. I advocated against most trades. I have participated in this community, and yes, as the PG wars escalated around here, I have been a strong supporter of Bayless getting more minutes. I do not know Bayless. I do not like Bayless. I see Bayless as the potential answer to a particularly vexing weakness of the team.
I have supported my position while acknowledging Blake’s strengths and Sergio improvement. I have tried to show fellow community members respect. I will admit that I have been irritated by the tone of many of the posts of those who prefer Sergio’s game. I think folks on both sides have lacked objectivity and have too frequently resorted to dissing the other side rather than making reasoned arguments for why they think one player should get more minutes.
For the most part I have tried to avoid these pitfalls. To the extent that I may have failed, I apologize to you and everyone else. This is supposed to be fun. I am not having fun. I will continue to try to be a constructive force in this little on-line world.
by upper left corner on Mar 18, 2009 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I apologize if I was part of making it not fun for you.
I’m afraid I did think you were a bigger than normal Bayless fan.
Frankly, I’ve been like Dave lately: really disappointed in the results of both our backup PGs. I really like them both though.
No title:
“Based on the scouting reports and what I say in SL, I thought that Bayless brought a different set of physical attributes to the game”
You want Bayless to succeed. Like you said you see him as the answer for this team. That means you can find him succeeding no matter what. It’s not hard to find positives in one player or negatives in another. Here is the issue with his “defense” that helped us tonight.
Oden had a +21 in 11 minutes. Oden and Bayless spent some time playing together. Bayless had a -3 in 17 minutes. This means that when Oden wasn’t on the court with Bayless, we got killed with Bayless in the game.
As I said earlier, our defense on Jack and co only looked better tonight because of Oden and Granger.
You are talking about garbage time in the fourth and it was not the guy Bayless was guarding that was doing the scoring.
Bayless was on the floor twice when the Blazers stretched the lead and then on again at the end when the lead was cut substantially that is what is reflected in the +/- numbers.
I watch PG play very carefully, often in slow mo so I can really “see” what is going on. Perhaps I am blinded, but the reality is that Nate seems to have arrived at the same conclusion that I have. Bayless has a better chance of developing into a complete PG than does Sergio. Bayless has more speed and strength, whether or not he can learn to use that to become an adequate distributor and a good defender is an open question.
by upper left corner on Mar 18, 2009 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Sergio FTW says above he DIDN'T SEE THE GAME and decided to fling it anyway...
I doubt he’d be quite so flippant about Bayless’ B-minus performance if he actually saw it.
Pontiff of the Pryz for Prez Posse...
Why?
It wasn’t an impressive performance. ULC would be hyping 0 players in the NBA for that game that don’t have the name Bayless. That’s fact.
You are behaving badly throughout this thread
We disagree. Fine. I may be wrong. You may be right. Nate may need analysis.
It is OK that we see things differently. It would be nice if you would marshall reasoned arguments, rather than personal attacks.
I have posted on many topics in this board and will continue to do so. I think Bayless is the best prospect for developing into a complete PG. Time will tell.
by upper left corner on Mar 19, 2009 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Personal attack?
I don’t know what you’re taking as a personal attack, but there wasn’t one. You’re a Bayless fan, that’s not an attack.
You have repeatedly misrepresented me in this thread
As I said in a post titled “No, here is where I am coming from”, I have posted on many topics on this board.
I have taken a position in the debate on who should get the back-up minutes. I have repeatedly acknowledged that Bayless has a long way to go. I have repeatedly acknowledged Blake’s strength and Sergio’s improvement. I have explained that to me this is primarily about DEFENSE. In my opinion, Bayless has the potential for better defense than either Sergio or Blake. He is faster and stronger. You may disagree, but that doesn’t mean you have a right to repeatedly demean me as some sort of “fanboy.”
Differences of opinion are fine. Demeaning others is not.
by upper left corner on Mar 20, 2009 6:27 AM PDT up reply actions
dearest timbo
I didn’t mean to be flippant about Bayless’ performance. As i volunteered in my second post, I was unable to watch the game, so I didn’t even endeavor to evaluate his entire game. I was simply pointing out that he had zero assists in the last 38 minutes on the court. i’m willing to bet that is the longest consecutive streak that any PG in the NBA has gone this season without a single assist—and that is very remarkable and worth noting.
"It's like, 'Urrrrrrgh!'" Rodriguez says, his cupped hands turning into fists. "It is a good feeling. Good feeling."
Hmm
Wouldn’t surprise me if it’s not the longest of the year, but proly up there.
My biggest concern is still that Bayless got the backup job after going 10 minutes with 0p,r,a,b,s and 1 turnover. Seems like it had already been decided before that game, but that Nate hadn’t pulled the trigger yet for whatever reason.
as you've pointed out
Bayless had already been getting more minutes than Sergio in March even though he was being outperformed by Sergio the whole time. It seems that Nate made this decision a while ago and was hoping Jerryd would step-up and ‘earn it’ in public view to make the transition more explainable. When that didn’t happen, he had to just give it to him.
"It's like, 'Urrrrrrgh!'" Rodriguez says, his cupped hands turning into fists. "It is a good feeling. Good feeling."
If they think Bayless is the best bet for the future so be it
But it’d be nice if they’d just say it, instead of screwing around like this.
my last reply here
but i cant see how you can accuse me of being hostile, after calling me factually challenged and accusing me of making stuff up. All did was accurately cite Bayless’ horrendous stats in his last 3 games, and that’s it.
"It's like, 'Urrrrrrgh!'" Rodriguez says, his cupped hands turning into fists. "It is a good feeling. Good feeling."
Not answering my qustions?
I am trying to generate some substantive discussion about why you think Nate is playing some one who you seem to think is terrible.
by upper left corner on Mar 18, 2009 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions
i've discussed it at length elsewhere on the site.
and i’m ok not going into it again.
"It's like, 'Urrrrrrgh!'" Rodriguez says, his cupped hands turning into fists. "It is a good feeling. Good feeling."
Who knows
The last 6 games before Bayless got the job, he played 33% more minutes that Sergio and he had a worse +/- and stats that were actually as bad as the spew Sergio was putting out.
The game he took Sergio’s job he played 10 minutes, had 0 points, 0 assists, 0 rebounds, 0 steals, 0 blocks, and 1 turnover on 0-2 shooting. (And a -7, so don’t hype the D’)
So yeah… I’m sticking with I don’t know why he got Sergio’s job outside of possibly the fact that Nate has been big on him since day 1.
I believe it has more to do with Nate McMillan's disdain toward Sergio ...
Rodriguez than any supposed love for Jerryd Bayless. Then again, McMillan does have a tendency to like certain types of point guards — although those floor generals are more in the mold of Steve Blake, Antonio Daniels, et al. — which is one of many reasons as to why I advocate acquiring Kirk Hinrich.
Big on Bayless
Small on Sergio
Same end result. I would bet money that Sergio is something that KP and Nate don’t agree on.
I've always thought this
for awhile it seemed like KP was compiling a roster of versatile and athletic players who seemed destined to run. When we have pushed the tempo this season we’ve done fairly well. Nate has not only slowed down the pace of our starting unit, but our 2nd unit as well lately. I’m not really going to question his strategy, but it does seem like they might have different philosophies.
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Mar 18, 2009 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Hinrich is really expensive
but he’d be a good fit.
draft dejuan blair
by Cablinasian on Mar 18, 2009 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions
It's strange
I know we’ve hashed this out before, but Nate’s most successful year as a coach was accomplished by starting Ridnour (a decidedly non-Nate guy) over Daniels (a decidedly Nate guy). And yet, he seems pretty rigid now about wanting a specific PG prototype.
Nate is a very concrete sequential person
He likes routine, he likes what he is familiar with, etc.
An example: (This is an example I am not expressing any political views here.)
1. A conservative doesn’t vote for Clinton. Clinton wins.
2. The economy goes crazy good when Clinton is in office and this conservative makes lots of money.
3. The conservative will still hate Clinton when he leaves office, regardless of how well Clinton did.
I think Nate is a lot like this. He will keep liking what he likes, regardless of what he is shown. Naturally changes will be made, but they will be comfortable changes. Also, at times he has no choice but to make the change, kind of like the Conservative has no choice but to obey Clinton’s laws.
routines
not only is this what nate prefers, i suspect it’d be good for our players too, who are young and rather inexperienced. having a consistent coach allows them to concentrate on the game rather than the improvisation of the coach.
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Mar 18, 2009 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions
That's a good point
But in the long run I don’t like this strategy. I like the players being able to be ready for any kind of rotation, etc.
with a few more seasons under our players belt
i think they can be ready…our players are fairly versatile and can be interchanged easily. i would think in the near future our versatility would rival LAs.
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Mar 18, 2009 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Can it with Nate though?
I would love love love Nate as an assistant coach. I just don’t know about how good he is as a head coach. But that’s another topic and one that nobody can prove their points on unless we invent a time machine, go back, and redo these last 3 seasons with a different coach. Night!
IMO
Nate has done a fabulous job with this team so far, but there are still a lot of questions that need to be answered before we can crown him as the coach that will lead us to multiple championships. as long as he continues to show growth and improve as a coach i will give him the benefit of the doubt until he shows otherwise.
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Mar 18, 2009 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions
No coach is perfect
Nate has done an absolutely incredible job with Brandon, Blake, Joel, and James Jones last year. Brandon has obviously improved a ton, and Blake/Joel/James all performed well above their career numbers under Nate.
You could make a similar argument for Trout, probably, but I don’t think it would be as strong.
That being said, he’s done an equally awful job with our backup PGs. Obviously Brandon developing trumps Sergio/Jack/Bayless, but if there’s one major flaw with Nate, it’s been his inability to develop a young PG.
about trout
you can make that argument for him…over the past 3 months, i’ve begun to accept trout for who he is as long as his role will always be a 4 million per year 6th man. my opinion of him was low before bc he had aspirations of being a starter/all star and i felt that a lot of people were overrating his efforts while overlooking his faults. trout and rudy make the perfect 6th man tandem coming off the bench, but given trouts growth progression so far, i don’t really picture him ever becoming a long term starter.
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Mar 18, 2009 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Travis is what he is by now
but he could just have easily been a lot less after those first couple years. As a wing in the league for 6 years, it’s ridiculous to think Travis could be much more than he is now.
Will he improve some? Yeah, almost definitely, and he could start on a bunch of teams, but he’s already made his leap, for the most part.
I think Nate’s done a decent job with him, just not nearly as good as he’s done with the other 4 guys I mentioned.
defying logic
while i agree with your post, it was weird seeing pryz and blake as being 2 of the most improved players on the team during the first 1/3 – 1/2 of the season. i am still shocked at how much more polished pryz offense has looked this year compared to last year when his hands were made of stone and his biggest offensive contribution was setting the pick.
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Mar 18, 2009 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not surprised on Pryz
A year ago he spent the whole summer working on his FT’s, to noticeable improvement. Word was, he basically spent all day in the gym all Summer until he’d be forced to do other things.
Last summer, he reportedly worked on his offensive moves.
I wish everyone could improve themselves in the offseason like Pryz does.
Let me suggest, looking on the floor rather than between Nate's ears.
Perhaps the answer to my question is a simple as that Nate thinks Bayless gives the team a better chance to win.
Perhaps Nate agrees with me: Sergio is better at the offensive end at the moment, but that is outweighed by the fact that Bayless is better on the defensive end. Furthermore, Bayless has a better chance of developing as a distributor and scorer than Sergio has of developing as a defender and scorer.
I don’t know what goes on inside Nate’s head and I think it is easy to speculate too much. I prefer to keep my eyes on the floor and assume the simplest explanation is likely to be the correct one.
by upper left corner on Mar 18, 2009 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm sorry this is too broken recordy
Looking at the floor doesn’t show that Bayless is a better defender. J-Bay’s defense is overrated in the same way that both Sergio’s passing AND turnovers are overhyped.
Bayless makes really good looking defensive plays, which overshadow the total crap that is his off the ball defense, rotation, etc. People notice the good, but who really pays attention to a player’s rotation off the ball? No one.
This is why people think Sergio is such a crazy good passer, but that he also gets tons of turnovers. When he does get his turnovers and assists, they just look a lot flashier so people remember them.
Another example. I would bet you that not even 1/10,000 people would have put LMA as the most efficient passer in the NBA. He just isn’t flashier enough so we don’t notice that he never turns the ball over while passing.
This is why stats are needed are why 100% of teams in every sport are using them more and more.
Actually.....
I DVR every game so I can watch replays in slow motion and then FF through the commercials. I have even gone back and watched whole quarters when I notice problems with PG defense to try to get a better handle on what is going wrong. I often replay Bayless’ minutes to look at his defense and his passing.
I know that Sergio has really improved his A/TO ratio this season, to around 2.3. I do disagree with your comment about Bayless and defensive rotations. What you are saying is based largely on his play during the first part of the season and the first few games after Blake got hurt. IMO, he has gotten quite a bit better at recognizing where he needs to be over the past month and a half. Again, I suspect that this improvement has a lot to do with why Nate is giving him a shot.
by upper left corner on Mar 18, 2009 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Wow, you actually revisit every play on perimeter ...
defense and still think that Jerryd Bayless is a solid defender.
Dude, that’s sad stuff.
Bayless can’t fight through screens, is a moron when it comes to rotating on defense, and is absolutely way too overaggressive during one-on-one matchups with point guards.
How can’t you see that?
You and I disagree.
I don’t expect to change your mind, but I also will resist the urge to ridicule you for seeing things differently.
I do not think that Bayless is good defender, yet. I think he is better than Sergio and hope that he will eventually be substantially better than Blake. Bayless is already the best of the three at fighting through screens. He is the fastest and the strongest of the three.
You have been one of Bayless’ biggest critics since draft day. Why do you think Nate is giving him the back-up minutes? I suspect that he shares my point of view more than he shares yours.
by upper left corner on Mar 19, 2009 8:32 AM PDT up reply actions
You've asked the same question like 8 times
Even when you get answered you keep asking each and every person.
Antonio Daniels brought a lot more to the table than Luke Ridnour.
http://82games.com/0405SEA.HTM
Daniels, who closed out games, was a main cog for the 2004-2005 Seattle SuperSonics, which wouldn’t’ve won the Northwest Division that season without him.
Of course, but Ridnour still
started every game and played 4 more minutes per than Daniels. Compare that to now, when no one besides Blake can regularly get more than 10 mpg.
I contend that Nate McMillan was force-fed Luke Ridnour ...
by the likes of Wally Walker, Rick Sund, et al. Even when the team selected ol’ Ridnour with the 14th pick during the 2003 NBA Draft, McMillan had reportedly wanted Reece Gaines to be the choice.
If McMillan’s bosses didn’t have their voices screaming in his ear, he’d’ve probably played Daniels for somewhere around 36 minutes per game.
Force-fed or not
my only real point is that Nate has seen that it’s possible to win with a second-year offensive minded point playing big minutes, and yet we still seem to be force-fed this idea that he needs a “Nate guy” to win.
Admittedly, he hasn’t done anything nearly as heinous as the other role player PG from the ‘90s did as a coach by wasting the first 5 years of one of the most dynamic PGs in the league’s career. I’m sure Mavs fans are loving the end result of the Avery years.
by Royster on Mar 18, 2009 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
recced
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Mar 18, 2009 10:53 PM PDT up reply actions
nate was quoted
as saying that he didnt see ridnour becoming a great pg. no link though sorry
I am starting the coalition to BRING BACK IKE.
Force fed Ridnour, but he was winning
If someone forced you to do something a certain way, and it worked, don’t you think you’d start to see the light?
No, Antonio Daniles was superior to Luke Ridnour.
I’ve taken tons of shots at Nate McMillan in the past, but he was totally correct in that instance.
Didn't follow those teams, so I can't say
But if that was his most successful team, Ridnour must have done something right? Unless the Sonics just kicked butt off the bench every game!
Daniels was a really good defender
he could lock up the opposing point.
draft dejuan blair
by Cablinasian on Mar 18, 2009 11:18 PM PDT up reply actions
agreed
last year it was Taurean Green who got more interview love than Sergio…and this year its Bayless. I think it’s great that Bayless has a good work ethic and we always hear about how great of a work ethic he has, but why don’t we hear anymore about Greg’s or Sergio’s work ethic? According to Medina on multiple occasions they both are gym rats.
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Mar 18, 2009 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions
If you read back through it you made it personal first by mocking SergioFTW's posts.
That is not a good way to generate substantive discussion but it is a great way to start a flame war.
But that is beside the point. You’re a Bayless fan, be proud of it. I’m glad he’s doing better too.
+1
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Mar 18, 2009 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions
SergioFTW wins original post with osolated cherry picked stats are what started this conversation
by upper left corner on Mar 18, 2009 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions
He posted the most recent stats
That’s not cherry picking. Which makes more sense to you?
“I think Bayless will succeed in the backup position because he did good during a 10 game stretch from Late Jan to Mid Feb.”
OR
“I think Bayless is going to have a rough time at the backup position because his last 10 games have been terrible.”
Dude, you and I have gone through a battle similar to this before here.
1. SergioFTW is a major Sergio Rodriguez homer.
2. You, upper left corner, are a Jerryd Bayless homer.
3. I, of course, am an unabashed Kirk Hinrich homer.
Oooh, can I be the guy who has unrealistic pipe dreams?
I want Devin Harris for Sergio. Maybe Rubio for Freeland if KP can’t work his magic.
draft dejuan blair
by Cablinasian on Mar 18, 2009 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Air Norv
already has you beat there.
It's really only a matter of time
before we see a post about how Blake Griffin would be the perfect banger for our second unit.
Ha-ha!
I like having him around here, though, since his posts make mine look much more rational most of the time.
You were born in 1984
Nothing you say is rational! (That’s an assumption, that year could be for many other reasons.)
You are correct, sir.
It’s got absolutely nothing to do with Eric Arthur Blair (a.k.a., George Orwell), even though he’s one of the all-time greatest novelists in history.
Correction
SergioFTW and Upper left corner are the same person. They… I mean “He” has Dissociative Identity Disorder. One of these sides love Bayless and one equally loves Sergio. It is unheard of for a person to switch between identities rapidly, but in this case it is apparently happening.
Please have the decency to read my post above entitled "No. Here is where I am coming from:"
I’m afraid your “humor” escapes me.
by upper left corner on Mar 18, 2009 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions
You do realize I posted this first
So it would have been impossible for me to read your post before posting what I did. Also, I read from bottom to top, so I already read your post before getting to this one.
You said you’re not a Bayless fan and that you just think he’s best for the team. This in itself isn’t logical because you should be a fan of the player who is best for the team, assuming he’s not a jerk. Thus, I can only assume that you are a Bayless fan and that you’re trying to prove a point with that post. The problem is, you can’t prove a point to me when you’re telling me that you don’t even understand your own feelings. Sorry, we’re not going to see eye to eye on this.
Am trying to avoid snarky response.....
I always find it a bit odd when others presume to understand my feelings better than I do.
I guess I am a fan of Bayless’ strength, speed, and work ethic. I do hope that he is successful in developing into a reasonably complete PG. It would be good for him, and good for the team. I also cheer for Sergio when he makes great passes and when he surprises me by playing good defense for stretches.
Bottom Line: I think the Blazers are going to need improved perimeter defense in general, and improved PG defense in particular, if they are going to get to the elite/championship level.
by upper left corner on Mar 18, 2009 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions
If you're a big fan of perimeter defense, then you ...
ought to so watch some tape of Kirk Hinrch. I’m dead serious, too, for you’ll actually have an understanding of what lockdown one-on-one defense is at that point.
"I always find it a bit odd when others presume to understand my feelings better than I do."
People are really bad at knowing their own feelings. This has been proven time and time again. People are also really bad at knowing the flaws of people they like. This has been proven time and time again.
You seem to think you’re not a Bayless fan and yet you watch tape of the guy in slow motion to prove his worth to… who? Yourself? Us? Him? You’re a bigger fan of a guy you’re not a fan of than I am of any player in the league.
No worries
But he was mocking Bayless’ first strech of games as the official back up, not you. Your correct that it takes two to fight, but you’ve gotta admit that SergioFTW never attacked you and he’s the one who backed off.
You have a point
I did escalate, because I misinterpreted one of his comments. When he said “zero production and several turnovers”, I thought he was talking about tonight’s game. Not his smushed up combination of the “Very Worst of JBay”.
by upper left corner on Mar 18, 2009 11:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Just a hunch
But SergioFTW’s original post clearly stated in the last 3 games/38 minutes. If you misinterpreted his comment, it was probably because you built yourself into a frenzy the moment you saw him insulting Bayless. Otherwise I don’t see how you misunderstand his statement.
You are a fan of Bayless. You do like Bayless. You do want Bayless to succeed. You should accept this as it is a part of you!
(Free Psych evals to anyone else who wants one… tomorrow, bed for real now.)
a more dramatic ending
would have been (drops the mic and walks away slowly) or in our circumstance keyboard.
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Mar 18, 2009 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Technically I think everyone here wants Bayless to succeed.
It’s just a matter of whether each person thinks he’s earned his current playing time.
We can disagree about who should play, but at the end of the day, I’m pretty sure we’d like everyone on the team to be successful.
All Bayless baby
We’ll ignore that once when Bayless came in the Pacers had already gone 4 minutes without making a shot. Clearly that was all Nate’s decision to play Bayless too.
why can't we just root for all of the players?
I don’t understand why some posters hate players on their favorite team.
draft dejuan blair
by Cablinasian on Mar 18, 2009 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I've said this before, you should pay attention
I don’t hate Bayless, I see him as being here longer than Sergio, but I’m not about to throw my blinders on and worship anything the kid does just because of his summer league play and his game face.
SergioFTW is right. He’s had 4 points and 0 assists in 30 minutes since taking Sergio’s job. 4 turnovers to go with that. Playing Blake level defense against Ford doesn’t give you a free pass for that.
(Oh, the 6 games before Bayless took Sergio’s job, Bayless played 33% more minutes than Sergio anyway, but I won’t count those games against Bayless’ production as the backup PG.)
I don't worship everything he does
I just refuse to judge a PG until he has a few years in the league.
draft dejuan blair
by Cablinasian on Mar 18, 2009 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe you are confused.
I really like Bayless.
His defense that everbody touts is not found in the stats or when I watch the game. He is a much bigger foul machine than Oden and he allows the opposition to score more than Sergio. Plus he was usually playing against weaker players when he was racking up his bad defense.
His defense ain’t great at all right now. Frye is better in my opinion, he’s just stuck guarding the center when he should be on a PF.
However, and this may tick SergioFTW, I still think he is our future point guard. Our championship one. He is just trash right now. It’s possibly because every time he tries to play defense he gets a foul called because he’s a rookie.
+1
sometimes as fans of certain players we look for the faults of others rather than the fault of our favorite players. we as a fan base are all guilty of this…how often do we blame brandon when he’s having a bad night? practically never these days.
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Mar 18, 2009 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions
well
actually there was a fanpost after the Atlanta game about him not doing enough… but I get your point. He gets a free pass.
draft dejuan blair
by Cablinasian on Mar 18, 2009 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions
my bad
i realized that after i typed my comment up…but still thats like 1 game out of 220 now? LMA has at least 100 games where comments come up about how he is soft, shoots too many jumpers, should be traded, inconsistent, etc.
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Mar 18, 2009 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions
the be community as a whole didn't
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Mar 18, 2009 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Roy goggles!
I have no issue pointing out when guys do awful, doesn’t mean I hate em.
A while back Greg and Joel played 48 minutes combined. Joel had a +22 and Greg had a -21. We won by 1 point obviously. A terrible game for Greg, and I think it’s okay to point that out. Doesn’t mean I don’t still <3 Greg!
i'm not saying we have to hate them
but the only people in our entire organization that don’t really get criticized are KP and Roy.
Everyone else…LMA, Greg, Sergio, Nate, Bayless, Blake, and PA gets criticized from time to time.
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Mar 18, 2009 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions
"Every win counts equally at this point in the season, of course, whether it's by 2 or 20"
as opposed to earlier in the season where blowouts get you 2 Ws?… j/k. I’m a smart alec. Also, where is Sergio?! Stop the hate Nate!
"Travis has more hops than a bunny in a brewery. He elevates so high his seat doubles as a flotation device."
-Dave
Interesting disconnect....
Dave, you praise the Blazers collective ability to stop dribble penetration by the Pacer guards, then appear to give Bayless little if any credit for his part in accomplishing this task.
Bayless was certainly quiet on the offensive end, and obviously is still trying to figure out his role. But I think tonight we saw the logic and wisdom of Nate’s decision to switch up the back-up minutes. Bayless played nice solid defense tonight against a pair of guards who burned the Blazers badly in Portland.
It was great to see Greg back on the floor. He makes the team much better on the boards, much better on defense, and he helps open things up for the perimeter guys.
I can’t wait till Martell comes back, it will be great to see the whole team.
by upper left corner on Mar 18, 2009 9:18 PM PDT reply actions
Yup
+1
I also didn’t think Oden had a bad first half. That pushed towards 20 included him at the core of the defense.
Disconnect?
Apparently Bayless played 13 minutes vs Indiana when they “burned our guards.”
Indiana went 4 minutes without a shot against Blake, Bayless had nothing to do with this.
Jack penetrated just fine one play, Oden affected the shot to the point of an airball, and Jack shied away.
Granger decided to chuck shots tonight, why didn’t he vs us last time? (That’s a joke.)
When Oden wasn’t in the middle, Jack took Bayless for an easy 8 footer to end a quarter. One play I know.
I already called this happening. Oden comes back to replace Frye right as Bayless gets the backup job, so people will try and credit Bayless for the improved D’, completely ignoring the Oden >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Frye.
Do we really have to go through this in every recap post?
Yes, Bayless made a couple decent plays that Dave didn’t mention, so did every other player. He also made some bleh plays that Dave didn’t mention, just like every other player. His writing a recap, not a play by play.
His write ups for Bayless have been consistent with his writeups for every other player throughout the season. Bayless has been underwhelming the last two games after getting the backup job. That’s a fact. Is he still going to get backup minutes? Almost definitely, because that’s what making a decision means. It would be ridiculous for Nate to make this decision and not give Jerryd at least 4 or 5 games to settle into a rhythm.
I get what you’re saying, but this is really trying to some to put lipstick on a pig, to some degree. When our standards are: “he didn’t get lit up by guys when he came in, but gave nothing offensively”, that’s a bad sign. Until we start getting production better out of Bayless alone than we were getting out of the disastrous Bayless/Sergio 5 min/each experiment, the constant reminders about how he’s actually having decent games are ring hollow.
Explanation
I was simply trying to point out that almost everyone thought that one of the keys to this game was keeping Ford from going off the way he did against the Blazers in Portland. Nate chose to leave Bayless on Ford for about 6 minutes in the second quarter after Diener sat, and Ford made several attempts to score on him and did not score a bucket or draw a foul.
A lot of posters seem to think that Nate has gone crazy for deciding to give Bayless a shot for at least a few games. I thought tonight’s game was a good illustration that even though Bayless is still feeling his way on the offensive end, there does appear to be a method to Nate’s madness.
I don’t expect Dave to go out of his way for one player’s small contribution to the overall team victory. However, given the level of controversy and Dave’s rather negative assessment after the Memphis game, it might have been appropriate to give a little acknowledgement to Bayless’ defensive play.
I promise I will not get on Dave’s back again (unless I can’t help myself).
by upper left corner on Mar 19, 2009 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Bayless' defense was excellent and I did not see him make one of the ticky-tack perimeter fouls that he has been getting whistled for in multiples...
He still hasn’t proved he can shoot the ball.
He got massacred with a no-call on one drive to the rack.
This is a massive frenzy started by someone who didn’t even see the game based on reading a line of a boxscore. Lesson: you can’t always see what’s happening in a boxscore.
Vse.
Pontiff of the Pryz for Prez Posse...
Hey, no hard feelings
I posted this before a lot of the argument above. My point was really just that it’s unrealistic and somewhat biased for Dave to go into that kind of detail for a single player without doing it for everyone on the floor, and while I appreciate Dave’s insight, that’d be something really more suited to a professional scout (no offense, Dave).
He’s obviously feeling his way out, and you’re right, he didn’t mess things up, defensively, but even Bruce Bowen at his offensive worst didn’t put up these games. As promising as the progression that he showed defensively today, it’s troubling that he’s continued to regress offensively. He’s obviously terrified to shoot from outside of 3 feet, and it’s killing his game right now. Unless this changes in the next 3 to 4 games and he starts to contribute offensively, I would expect to see Nate go back to Sergio for the final stretch run, and revisit the issue in the offseason.
To be fair to you, though, Nic has put up plenty of similar games (playing okay D, doing nothing on the offensive end), and he would get a free pass.
Key difference is that Batum isn't a PG
If he sits in the corner and creates a 4 on 4 he is doing his job. A PG doesn’t have this luxury.
Did you miss the memo?
we made a trade right at the deadline for a 6-8 beast out of Tulsa. this is Ruffin’s game and he’s going to make you forget all about lamarcus… watch out cavs
"Travis has more hops than a bunny in a brewery. He elevates so high his seat doubles as a flotation device."
-Dave
by SabonisBonus on Mar 18, 2009 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions
................... as long as LeBron is also out of the game.
Pontiff of the Pryz for Prez Posse...
And someone figures out
how to slow Mo.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
no kidding!
we could have picked up a game on 3 of the teams we’re closest to… I guess this is just what to expect in the western conference
"Travis has more hops than a bunny in a brewery. He elevates so high his seat doubles as a flotation device."
-Dave
by SabonisBonus on Mar 18, 2009 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions
That's why
this young team needs to learn to play hard on every night to avoid some of those earlier bad losses. I know, I know. We got a couple of wins we may not have deserved, but to lose to the Clips and OKC, etc. while showing no fire at all is a sign that this team has some maturation to do. It’s not toughness, it’s more like consistent focus to attack, attack, attack.
Agreed
And fortunate wins. However, experienced teams know they aren’t just playing the team opposing them on the floor, they are playing (even in November), against the teams in their division/conference. That’s every night all the time.
Sure, on a given night, even the best teams shoot poorly or run into a hot team. But, rest assured, on most nights they know to rip your heart out and stomp on it. Doing so practically assures good play off seeding.
we probably have fewer bad losses than the other contenders.
one loss to a sub-.500 team at home. Every Western contender matches that or eclipses that, including LA.
Houston has lost to Memphis twice and Washington at home. New Orleans has lost to Chicago and Sacramento at home. LA lost to Charlotte at home. San Antonio just lost to OKC. Dallas lost to OKC. Denver has a slew of bad losses, including a 44 point blowout at NJ.
draft dejuan blair
by Cablinasian on Mar 18, 2009 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions
We're actually one of the most consistent teams
in the league this year. KP2 did a study over a basketball prospectus, but I can’t remember the link. Basically, we almost always beat teams we’re supposed to bear and lose to teams we’re supposed to lose to, strangely enough.
Two observations
1. Portland made Indiana play at a methodical. When we go on the road and dictate tempo, that’s a good thing.
2. Oden looked quicker out there, one month farther from microfracture. In the game thread, I likened it to an infant. Sure, it’s hard to see growth on a day to day basis, but once you leave for a week and come back, the baby’s growth is obvious. Same with Oden. After a month more to recuperate, he was noticeably faster and more fluid.
draft dejuan blair
by Cablinasian on Mar 18, 2009 9:36 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
It was shocking really how mobile he was in his first game back.
Clyde the Glide, the greatest player ever
Cliff Robinson got mad at my brother who was trying to sell him a cellphone when my brother called him Uncle Cliffy. Apparently, he doesn't like that name very much.
by BeaumontTXBlazerFan on Mar 18, 2009 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed to both of you
He actually looks quicker than he did the game before the injury. His line doesn’t show it, but airballs from both Jack and that 7’3 dude of theirs do. Just some crazy good D’ that even Przybilla can’t do. (Of course, Oden can’t block dunks yet!)
He was quick alright
And fast down the court too. I kept looking for him to be the last guy lumbering into the offensive set, waiting really, as that was his MO earlier in the season. Then I wouldn’t see him, and think “my god, he’s REALLY slowed down now,” then suddenly I see he beat the camera down the court and had been setting a pick for the 3 to 5 seconds I was looking for him to enter stage left.
Was great to see him so active for sure, but tomorrow is going to be a real test for him. Indy was just a warm-up, or at least thats what I’m hoping.
"I don’t have the first clue who he is talking about, because all I worry about is Jerome." – Jerome James, on comments by coach Nate McMillan about Seattle SuperSonics players being selfish.
He could almost dunk from the free throw line in college
just wait til his Howard-esque athleticism shows up.
draft dejuan blair
by Cablinasian on Mar 18, 2009 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions
He had a 38 inch vert. Crazy
OHHHHH Brandon! Do it, do it, do it til your satisfied!!!!!! - Wheels
"We ran the football. We could run it all day long, and again that's what we do." -Mike Bellotti, 65 - 38
Agree with everyone also
Greg was fast, fluid, and surprisingly coordinated after a month off. I didn’t think he looked sad in the first half. He affected how the Pacers had to play— even when he didn’t do something directly, like score. You could sense that the Pacer players were aware of him when he was in the game.This is just a glimpse of the Greg Oden we we’ve been waiting for.
Agreed and the Indy announcers pointed it out as well.
How many times did Ford drive to the hoop? I wasn’t keeping track, but it wasn’t as many as in the game up in Portland.
I think Portland can live with Granny Danger bombing away from the outside since no one else could do anything.
Portland’s pick-and-roll defense looks a lot better when the opponents have to roll into Oden.
in all fairness
ford drove to the hoop a lot in portland probably is a combination of our defense and the fact that granger wasnt playing.
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Mar 19, 2009 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Good point.
The offense does change when Granny is playing and hittin’. However, I will still argue that Oden helped shut the middle down.
sad looking run in the first half for Greg?
I feel I watched a different game. He was at least as good as Joel out there and the numbers back it up. Greg looked really good for missing a month. He made a huge difference in this game and was the reason our bench dominated. Give the dude some credit.
Not to pile on..
but I liked Oden in the first half. McBob got a couple boards, but one OReb was because GO helped, effectively. Greg’s own offensive board work was less because Indy had EVRYONE in the lane and to the glass (they read scouting reports, too!). He moved well and was in position on D. Did you notice the three times Hibbert got the ball in post against GO? One airball and two times passed back out. Hibbert went right at Joel tonight, and scored.
I obviously paid a little extra attention to the Big Fella
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
Hibbert, that's the dude!
Oden’s D on him in the first half was borderline unfair. Granted, Hibbert isn’t a good offensive player, but you’d think he’d be able to at least get off a shot that got somewhere near the rim.
Hibbert had success against Joel (with a little ref help)
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Mar 19, 2009 6:08 AM PDT up reply actions
to totally pile on...
I was thrilled with Oden’s first half. nothing forced. great box outs. Solid defense without dumb fouls. even before this latest injury, foul trouble was the greatest issue for greg, and it was good to see in his less than 100% state that he could move his feet enough to avoid that.
I think coming off the bench will really help with the foul trouble issue as teams seemed to always start games trying to get greg in foul trouble
Bring back the Uncle Cliffy!
he was faster
which enabled him to rotate better, methinks.
draft dejuan blair
by Cablinasian on Mar 18, 2009 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Faster and Quicker
much different man on the P n R this time around.
by keepfryealive on Mar 18, 2009 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions
he is regaining his speed
and actually played the pick and roll very effectively tonight. When he has his full athleticism back, he’ll be a fearsome defender.
draft dejuan blair
by Cablinasian on Mar 18, 2009 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions
I was about to rant how Oden had a good first half...
but I see everyone else felt the same way. Barely any boards in the first half because he was boxing everyone else out and LMA and others were cleaning up.
OHHHHH Brandon! Do it, do it, do it til your satisfied!!!!!! - Wheels
"We ran the football. We could run it all day long, and again that's what we do." -Mike Bellotti, 65 - 38
I"m confused...is this the Rex/Sergio thread? Go Blazers!!!!
Yes on Proposition #9 (RLEC must go!!!!)
I just want to know what the Bayless experiment will end
It’s obviously not working and Nate needs to go back to Sergio. The real question is when will fan realize that KP mad a mistake drafting an undersized ball hog shooting guard to play point guard.
I'm tominhawaii, was dragline, and have never been tominrehab.
So, Tom......
…….it turns out that the reason you gave me such a hard time on my Fanpost yesterday, isn’t because it was “inappropriate,” or because it was a topic that had already been discussed, the real reason you gave me such a hard time is that you disagree with my point of view. How cliche.
The “undersized ball-hog” meme has been thoroughly disproved on the floor. Bayless has clearly shown his willingness to share the ball, and is in the process of showing that he can be reasonably effective defending the 1. Clearly, whether or not he can become and effective distributor is an open question, but he is clearly showing a willingness to try. Time will tell whose perception is more accurate.
by upper left corner on Mar 19, 2009 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions
He's trawling
and you took the bait.
He doesn’t troll, but he does trawl.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
I stated my case clearly
You wrote a two part FanPost that should have been two comments, one in Dave’s post and the other in the half-dozen point guard FanPost. I didn’t like it because it was a typical FanPost of that nature which for some reason gets under my skin.
I have been saying all year that Bayless would at some point take the back up point guard job from Sergio. I think it was actually just given to him because he either didn’t earn it or Sergio didn’t do much to prevent losing the job. I don’t think Nate is agreeing with you. I just think he’s cut bait with Sergio.
And as jscot said below, since I’ve been on this blog, my role has been to take the opposite position of the most vocal poster in a thread and say something stupid to see if I can fish him or her in.
I'm tominhawaii, was dragline, and have never been tominrehab. I am the Kobe of Blazers Edge, I'm a devil on the run, a six pack lover, a fart in the wind.
Oh snap
jscot said it above, but it was below when I was typing.
I'm tominhawaii, was dragline, and have never been tominrehab. I am the Kobe of Blazers Edge, I'm a devil on the run, a six pack lover, a fart in the wind.
j scot has ESP
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Mar 19, 2009 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions
I told you to type that
and you didn’t even know it.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
I laughed out loud
when I saw you take tih’s bait and THEN I saw that jscot already commented on that eliciting a belly laugh.
I’m happy you’re a passionate and knowledgable fan but after plowing through your Baylust comments I’m thinking you might want to go sit in your upper left corner for a while and let the waters calm a bit.
Spanish Main: The point of departure for enormous wealth in the form of gold, silver, gems, spices, hardwoods, hides, alley-oops, assists and three pointers.
by LaughingJon on Mar 19, 2009 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
BAYLUST FTW
someone lock that screenname up and sell it on ebay.
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Mar 19, 2009 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions
both backup pgs
are worrying me at this point. both dont look they have much confidence. over the last few weeks the two have become the glaring personnel weakness on this team
I am starting the coalition to BRING BACK IKE.
We just had one of our better road wins in the last few months
and people are arguing about the backup point guard.
draft dejuan blair
“This was another game where we had more field goals, three-pointers, and free throws made than the opponent. I’m still waiting for somebody to explain how we could ever lose doing that.”
foul out all your players and forfeit?
"When jumpers are outlawed only Outlaw will take jumpers"-LoadedOrygun
by DominicanAvenger on Mar 18, 2009 11:58 PM PDT reply actions
Something to distract us from the PG debate.
Oden updated his blog. A quick except (since I presume he would rather we read it at his blog):
I was suprisingly not as out of breath as i thought i would be. My knee felt good while i was out there it got pretty sore at half time and after the game but it wasnt anything that i couldnt deal with. So we have a game tomorrow and i plan on playing.
Stay on topic! ;-)
This is a point guard thread.
I'm tominhawaii, was dragline, and have never been tominrehab.
kill me for saying this
but LMA doesn’t seem to serve much purpose other than scoring and some replaceable defense. we can win against Cleveland without him simply because it seems like anyone can do what he does.
That's not true, his shooting percentage is actually 100%...he just 'missed shots he normally makes'
Normally he makes all his shots. He just missed them this one time.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Mar 19, 2009 7:28 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
We wouldn't do that
You may post the stupidest things we’ve ever seen, but we still wouldn’t kill you. We wouldn’t even shoot at you in a strip club parking lot. Those days are gone.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
That might've been my favorite win of the season
People are still arguing about Sergio? lol
Blazer Fan
Wow, I'm a troll?
I just pointed out some remarkable, and accurate stats, and that’s it. I don’t think that makes me a troll. I can recall you posting far more inflammatory comments about sergio with much greater frequency.
"It's like, 'Urrrrrrgh!'" Rodriguez says, his cupped hands turning into fists. "It is a good feeling. Good feeling."
Yeah, but everyone knows he's a troll
Nobody even has to say it.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Yeah
We’ve locked down at least a seven seed with that one, and probably six, unless Utah suddenly figures out how to win tough games on the road. Great win.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Not yet
We need to go 3-2 on this trip. Assuming Cleveland is an autoloss, we put ourselves in the hole by losing the first one. Until we finish up the trip in Milwaukee, I am not satisfied by this win!
Agree and disagree
We needed two wins to lock down top 7. We need 3 to keep ourselves in the thick of the hunt for 3-4. If we steal a Cleveland win and get Milwaukee as well, we’re a favorite for the third seed.
So I’m not satisfied with this one either, because our sights are higher than 7th or even 6th. But Utah and Dallas needed to make up major ground on us this week, and now it won’t happen. Dallas finishes behind us, and Utah probably does, too.
One more win on the trip and we’re favored for at least a top 5 spot.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
I want to stay in the hunt for 3-4 seed
That means I can blow more money on playoff tickets and help the economy!
So yeah, in my point of view we need to go 3-2 since I see less than a 4 seed as a bad thing! If you just want the 5-6 seed to avoid Spurs/Lakers then yeah 2-3 proly fine.
2-3 would be a decent performance for a young team
at this point in the season. But it wouldn’t be what you would call good, or what would show you are ready to be a threat in the playoffs. And after starting 2-1, it would be a little disappointing.
3-2 would be good, very good.
4-1? If we somehow get to 3-1, then we could talk about that.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
If we get to 3-1 and don't get to 4-1 I am going to cry.
I don’t care about letdown games after emotional wins. If we pull out a miracle and beat Cleveland then our guys better realize they got a shot at the 3 seed and be ready for the Bucks.
That said, I expect our guys to be ready for the Bucks after being 2-2.
That's what we did at home
Beat L.A., then lost to Dallas when they were on a back to back.
Although I think the Rudy injury was a significant factor there, both in not having his skills and the emotional impact of it and how it happened. Veteran teams should overcome that kind of stuff, but we aren’t there yet.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Dallas game was more Rudy's skill than the emotional aspect I think
That was the game where Outlaw had 20 and NO ONE else on the 2nd unit scored IIRC. That just doesn’t happen if we have Rudy.
Oh well, all teams gotta deal with injuries.
Isn't it good that the fans offer critique during the good and bad?
It’s a lot better than dancing around in a circle while playing Shining Happy People in the background during wins, but wanting to fire Nate and trade everyone during losses.
It’s called balance!
Rebecca Haarlow
Did anyone else notice that during one of her sideline reports, Rebecca Haarlow came one syllable away from referring to the Pacer’s star player as “Granny Danger”?
AWESOME. That is my new nickname for that dude, for sure!!
Anyone notice.....Again...
The stinking blue top that she wears on TV…I think her contract should say red, black, white..on non-opposing team colors only….She must have gotten a compliment one day..“Your eyes just pop so blue with your outfit”…….If she is there for eye candy..then let’s get the wrapper right!
Yeah, we brought it up in the
gameday thread and you’ll notice it sprinkled throughout. I will use it to refer to him exclusively.
coach of the future
i say that once we lock up home court advantage in the playoffs this year, we move to coaching by committee. the blazers could do live polling to determine substitutions, matchups, and plays run. it’ll be a great marketing ploy and as well as fun interaction for the fans. that way no one can ever complain since the majority has decided. when the blazers win their rings this summer than PA can spring for rings for everyone who has voted as well as we contributed to this teams success.
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
Haha
I trust Nate more than I trust a majority of the fans. A committee of 12 should be created with Jscot and Ben serving as the chairs for the first group of 12. Rotate 1 member out every 2 months to keep fresh blood in there.
can we campaign for slots on the committee?
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Mar 19, 2009 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Especially since I'm one of the two current members
I accept dollars, yen, British pounds, or Swiss francs. I expect the Euro to implode soon, so that’s not of particular interest to me. Failing that, gold bullion will also catch my attention.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
I figure since you're going to rule the world someday...
You need to get committee experience! (Remember who nominated you for one of the two chair spots wink wink.)
Benevolent dictators
always remember who their friends are.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.

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