Where is Dave's vaunted restraint?
by upper left corner on Mar 17, 2009 8:13 AM PDT
121 comments
We all know how our Fearless Leader rolls; he is restrained. He doesn't get too high, and he doesn't get too low. He is reluctant to heap praise and even more reluctant to hurl criticism.
So imagine my surprise when I read his comments about our back-up PGs in his recap of the Memphis game. Dave pulled his seldom used rhetorical sledge hammer out of his back pocket and smacked both Sergio, and especially Bayless, around.
Now I will be the first to admit that I am not a particularly objective observer to this debate. Somehow I seem to have adopted the role as one of the prime Baylophiles around here. I have done so less as a matter of any great admiration for the current state of Bayless' game, and more as a reaction to my constant concern that our PG defense is truly lousy and a hope that Bayless might be the answer.
In any case, I feel compelled to respond to Dave's broadside. So Dave, what gives? Usually you are quite restrained in your praise and your criticism. Tonight is Bayless' first night in the back-up role, and you bash the Bejesus out of him??????
Bayless' spring is wound very tight under the best of circumstances. Tonight, he had to be feeling the pressure. He had to know that he would be under a lot of scrutiny in his new role. Being a point guard is about making decisions. Thinking too much and trying too hard are not conducive to good decision making.
Three points:
1) Sergio has been struggling mightily on defense. Bayless is better now, and will improve with time on the court. Over the past month we have seen several teams target Sergio. Having him on the floor is a defensive liability that teams will exploit relentlessly in the playoffs. If Bayless is less of a liability on the defensive end, he needs time on the floor now, to be ready to contribute during the playoffs.
2) More than half the time Bayless is on the court, Roy is playing point. Bayless is essentially playing SF on offense. He goes and stands in the corner. Given that his shot is under reconstruction and he is obviously not comfortable shooting from the outside, this doesn't seem like very good use of his skill. Obviously he needs to find his outside shot. The best hope for that is to give him regular back-up minutes so that he can relax a little.
3) Obviously, this is a difficult time to make a change in the rotation, when every game counts and every mistake is magnified. But the bottom line is that Bayless needs time on the floor to gain confidence and to learn. In my mind, now is better than later. Next year the stakes will only be higher. I think Bayless showed he can play during the time Blake was out. He just needs to figure out what role Nate wants him to play.
Both Bayless and Sergio have struggled since Blake returned. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that both have been feeling the pressure and both have failed to find a groove in very limited minutes. Something had to be done. Nate chose defense over offense; I think that is the right decision. Give the kid a few games before you leap to conclusions.
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I don't know.
Dave’s reaction seems pretty tame to me. Bayless and Sergio have both been pretty terrible for a while now. I would have verbally eviscerated both of them by now if I was in Dave’s shoes.
Also, I agree with Nate’s decision to go with Bayless over Sergio. I mean, if neither is giving you anything on offense you might as well go with the better defender. At the very least Bayless probably will probably airball less shots.
by Nick Van Excellent on Mar 17, 2009 8:27 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The thing about Sergio is that he's been terrible for three seasons whereas Bayless is a rookie
Just sayin’
Sergio’s never going to be able to guard NBA players so it really comes down to: is his offense good enough to overcome his defense? The answer so far is obviously no.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Mar 17, 2009 8:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Defense, defense, defense....
It is amazing the amount of words that have been written on this topic and how few of them have been about the defensive end of the court. Many posters seem oblivious to defense.
Our PG defense is LOUSY, and Bayless seems like the best candidate available to offer some help.
by upper left corner on Mar 17, 2009 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yawns
Find me some evidence of this please, and not what you remember from 1-2 plays in a game.
by Zaig on Mar 17, 2009 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Evidence?
Defensive evidence? Sure, I’ll just pull out my defense STAT calculator and whip those up real quick. According to my computer Bayless has a scrapiness rating of 104, which doesn’t sound great until you pace adjust it. He also stays in front of his man 76.5% of the time which is good when compared to Sergio’s 65.8%.
Of course, I’m using North American formulas for all my calculations so maybe the numbers would be different if I did it in Spain… which on a related note is where Sergio is probably going to end up in the next three to five years.
by Nick Van Excellent on Mar 17, 2009 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
lol!
Thanks for a bit of humor in a frequently grim morning!
by upper left corner on Mar 17, 2009 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In other words
You have none, because anything that can be used shows that Sergio is better than you think and that Bayless is worse than you think.
Bayless has the better game face, thus he has the better defense.
by Zaig on Mar 17, 2009 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Individual defensive stats are called eyeballs.
by Nick Van Excellent on Mar 17, 2009 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You only watch the guy with the ball
You don’t watch what they’re doing when their guy doesn’t have the ball. You also don’t know where players end up when they drive on a certain player. You also don’t know where picks and rolls end up.
Humans also remember the extremes, so an obvious mistake is remembered over a less obvious mistake, even if those both hurt the same amount.
If eyeballs were any good at picking players then coaches/recruiters wouldn’t need their formulas or stats to choose players.
by Zaig on Mar 17, 2009 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, to be more specific
We need ON POINT defense. We need to stop the opposing PG from driving right past the perimeter D and exposing our Center to fouls and/or a pass off and dunk to his man.
On the Pick and Roll, we need a guy who can and will fight through screens.
Both of these are quantified by using your eyeballs. And Bayless is the only one of the three who can do either of these things with regularity.
Better?
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Mar 17, 2009 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
regularity is a stretch
"Slum dunk? You just go to the rim, and crush.. crush the ball in the rim."
- Nic Batum
by idoltime on Mar 17, 2009 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"regularity" as in
more than once per game
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Mar 17, 2009 8:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
okay.. I'll buy an average of once per game..
"Slum dunk? You just go to the rim, and crush.. crush the ball in the rim."
- Nic Batum
by idoltime on Mar 17, 2009 11:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What individual defensive stats are you talking about?
Rafer Alston has a higher defensive win share % than Rajon Rondo. “On Court Defensive Impact” has Turkoglu rated above Bowen. 82 games rates Manu Ginobili as a better defender than Tayshaun Prince.
Show me an individual defensive statistical system that is accurate before you tell me it doesn’t take eyeballs to rate a player’s defensive impact. There is no formula that can calculate all the nuances that make a great defender.
It takes a real person.
by Nick Van Excellent on Mar 17, 2009 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like PER differential
and avg opponent PER
Blazer's fan since '84, Spurs fan when they are not playing Portland.
↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A B A START.
by HurraKane212 on Mar 17, 2009 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't the pick and roll destroy that?
I mean really, if Sergio is getting switched onto bigger guards all night that won’t show up in opponent PER, right? It will just look like Rudy ‘s or Roy’s guy is scoring a lot.
by Nick Van Excellent on Mar 17, 2009 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If any team ran the P&R
with their two guards that would be a valid concern. Also, if we defended it differently with the different PGs, then you’d worry about that. But we’re switching on basically every pick, regardless of who’s playing the point, so while a decent amount of the opponent PER can be explained by the fact that it’s Oden/Pryz/LA guarding the opposing PG, but since the situations are roughly the same in terms of our schemes, this isn’t really a good excuse.
by Royster on Mar 17, 2009 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who's to say what anybody sees when they watch
I absolutely watch off the ball. Bayless, to my discerning eyeballs is better than Sergio. No stats needed.
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
by iDea on Mar 17, 2009 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1 for making me laugh
Awesome post. Are flops included in the Spanish formula?
Bayless does foul too much on D on the perimeter, but I consider that a lot better than just having your man drive right past you to the hole. It’s pretty hard to quantify good defense ie Jason Kidd is averaging about 2 steals a game this year, but he hasn’t stopped anyone in a long time. Also see Bibby, Mike. He nearly leads the Hawks in steals, but they have to completely hide him on D so other teams can’t constantly take advantage of him. A lot of defense is scrapiness and being in the right place. Sergio has gotten better, but Bayless is quicker, stronger, and plays better D overall.
by KitIsh on Mar 17, 2009 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
foor for thought. Obviously defense is the most unmeasurable thing about basketball but.....
82games makes the effort. Their numbers show that Sergio’s own “production” is about 13 and his opponents about 16. That is about a -3. Bayless’s own production is about 10 and his opponents is about 19, thats -9. Both players generally play against the bench and in fact Sergio spent a small amount of time playing against starters, something that Bayless has rarely done.
RUDY > MJ
by myemic23 on Mar 17, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bayless also played really strange minutes.
It’s hard to get a feel for the NBA game as a rookie. It’s even harder when you play in 5 minute spurts.
by Nick Van Excellent on Mar 17, 2009 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But this excuse doesn't work for Sergio?
The only regular minutes he got was as a starter, which was when Bayless got regular minutes too.
by Zaig on Mar 18, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It does work for Sergio.
He has played better this season since Jack left and Sergio started getting more than 10 minutes per game. I would just argue that Sergio has finally got his shot and hasn’t made the most of his minutes. Now Bayless will get his chance and he may or may not blow it for himself. That’s just the way it works.
by Nick Van Excellent on Mar 18, 2009 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Y'know, that really about sums it up for me -- bearing in mind "terrible" is hyperbole. They both have been sucking, but Rex's horizons seem broader...
The thing about Sergio is that he’s been terrible for three seasons whereas Bayless is a rookie
Pontiff of the Pryz for Prez Posse...
by timbo on Mar 17, 2009 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It feels like it's been a month since I've seen Bayless do more help than harm.
I’m rooting for the kid but I thought Dave’s comments were well warranted.
Spanish Main: The point of departure for enormous wealth in the form of gold, silver, gems, spices, hardwoods, hides, alley-oops, assists and three pointers.
by LaughingJon on Mar 17, 2009 8:33 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This should have been a comment in Dave's post
Now, hear me out, this FanPost is passé and cliché.
by tominhawaii on Mar 17, 2009 8:34 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for the slack......
I thought about posting it there, but felt like I had a larger point to make about the back-up minutes.
Must confess that posting long comments in recap posts is a bit frustrating because they get little response, especially if they are not made on the night of the game.
by upper left corner on Mar 17, 2009 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I got an answer for that two
The second part of your discussion could have been covered here: http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/3/16/800793/was-there-a-backup-pg-deci
As the Kobe of Blazers Edge, I gotta tell you that it is not the size of the comment that reduces its reply count, rather the content of the comment that reduces its reply count.
by tominhawaii on Mar 17, 2009 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is there some particular reason you are trash talking me?
Usually you seem like a fun lovin’ guy. Did I dis’ your momma or your sister?
Seriously, this was intended to be a bit of light hearted ribbing of Dave. It was not an uber-serious piece of criticism. I think I am a generally constructive member of this community, and am pretty confident that my writing is above the median.
I think the issue of PG defense is a real one that deserves discussion. You are correct that it would have been appropriate to post this in the other thread. I did not see it until after I posted this. Peace brother.
by upper left corner on Mar 17, 2009 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like a poker player that says he's always unlucky...
am pretty confident that my writing is above the median.
by TPfor3 on Mar 17, 2009 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't trash talking
It’s just that this is the 5th point guard related FanPost in the last 55. 6th, if I count the shot Basketball Fan took at Sergio in his Kneepad FanPost. If I understood the internet tubes better, I would have posted that dead horse animated gif. I’m not hating, just a friendly reminder. We take turns being that guy here.
by tominhawaii on Mar 17, 2009 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now hold on....
a little over 10% of posts on by far the most divisive and (in my opinion-maybe not yours) important issue for this team. That’s probably fewer than it should be…
by TPfor3 on Mar 17, 2009 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who gets minutes at backup PG is the .....
…. most important issue for this team?
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Mar 17, 2009 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can care less if 10% is less divisive
What bugs me is when it’s 10% of the same thing. It’s at least one complain about the point guard posts a day. And no offense to the author, but this here post is the type that bothers me more than repeatedly bringing up the same topic. I hate posts that basically say, “I got an idea that should have been a comment in another post but I want comments so I’ll just post my comment as a FanPost.”
The recent point guard posts are irritating as well. We know Sergio can’t play defense, Bayless is a rookie, Blake is probably better suited as a backup and nothing is going to change until the off season. So why keep bringing it up to get people to take sides as either, “I’m a Sergio supporter” or “I’m a Bayless supporter.”
I know I said I was boycotting divisive FanPosts but this one fished me with with the title.
You’ll
by tominhawaii on Mar 17, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Tom you have a right to your irritation, and I have a right to post, until Dave tells me I don't.
Wow! With all due respect to your exalted status around here, this comment really rubs me raw. Who died and appointed you the arbiter of post appropriateness?
So far, this post has generated nearly 60 comments, which suggests that it addresses issues of concern in the community. I can’t imagine responding to you in the way you have addressed me in your comments here. Show a little respect for a fellow BEdger.
by upper left corner on Mar 17, 2009 6:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was going to say "I did" but I didn't die
To each is own cuz. I can’t really write anything else without getting snarky.
by tominhawaii on Mar 18, 2009 1:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would guess that maybe half of the comments are "concerned"
and the other half, irritated. We get it, your but hurt cause Dave wasn,t loving on Jayless, they both suck, and for different reasons. dude, the premise of your fanpost, is “Dave didn’t say it right, I don’t understand how what Dave thinks he sees and what I think I see are two different things, I better write a fanpost and admonish him.” There’s nothing different, nothing new, its all been said allready
What's the point?
by maid tu rek on Mar 18, 2009 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Perhaps you can't or won't read.....
…….I have attempted to make it clear that the title of this post was intended to be humorous. Yet, you continue to misconstrue it for your own purposes.
by upper left corner on Mar 19, 2009 12:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shouldn't you be a Heat fan?
by Nick Van Excellent on Mar 17, 2009 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't even know where Florida is on the map
by tominhawaii on Mar 17, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You and about 40% of high school seniors.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Mar 17, 2009 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right near the beach... BBOOIIIII!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RUDY > MJ
by myemic23 on Mar 17, 2009 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Leave Tom's mother and sister out of this.
It’s already hard enough for him dealing with the fact that his mom is a recovering addict and alcoholic and his sister is a crack whore. He doesn’t need your insensitive remarks.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Mar 17, 2009 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Close
My sister is just kind of like Dog the Bounty Hunter’s wife.
by tominhawaii on Mar 17, 2009 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
She sounds hot
care to introduce? Does she wear spandex?
Hello Dum Dum
by ryryslyry on Mar 17, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I totally disagree.
It is my opinion that what we need is a discussion on the backup PG position. We hardly ever discuss such an important issue. I say it’s about time we do.
And my opinion is that the backup PG should ………….. get less minutes than the starting PG.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Mar 17, 2009 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but what if there are two backups?
Blazers win BDL 2 on 2 tournament!
Skeets: i’ll close it down now … congrats. you bastards
by 22baylor on Mar 17, 2009 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then they both should get less minutes than the starting PG.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Mar 17, 2009 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But what if Starting PG goes oh for ten
and PG 2 has 16 assists and PG 3 goes for 30? – Elgin
Blazers win BDL 2 on 2 tournament!
Skeets: i’ll close it down now … congrats. you bastards
by 22baylor on Mar 17, 2009 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Get back to me when that happens.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Mar 18, 2009 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Slow and steady. Bayless is the turtle and Sergio is the hare.
Bayless has a very steep hill to climb. I see several obstacles that he’ll have to overcome before I stop cringing.
1) His best attribute, driving into the paint and finishing strong, isn’t as easy in the NBA as it was in school. Bayless has hops for sure, but lets face it, he’s short. He’s a SG in a PG’s body. Lately he hasn’t been able to get to the hoop. Maybe this is because he’s playing off the ball, but I think it’s because word is out on him and his skill set as it currently stands is pretty easy to negate. He drives into the paint and rarely gets the call let alone the bucket. This is an adjustment he’ll be able to make with more playing time.
2) He isn’t comfortable running the sets. Or just isn’t confident enough to do so. It seems to me that the problem here might be that he doesn’t know his teammates habits well enough. He seems to be a hard worker. It worries me that he is a bit to inwardly focused. He needs to know where the screen is going to be, what pace Brandon wants, where LMA will be open for the shot and when Travis has a hot hand. If he fails to get his head out of his shell he’ll never work well with others. Which leads to the next problem.
3) The shooting guard likes the other guy better. Brandon prefers to have Steve Blake in there as Blake knows exactly what Brandon likes and Brandon knows he can drive and pitch it to an open Blake for the outside shot. Rudy prefers to have Sergio in there as Sergio knows what Rudy likes and he can drive and pitch it to Rudy for his outside shot.
4) Nate is hard to please, and so are the fans. I liked me some JJ, but last year when Jack had the ball in the 4th he was about to turn it over. I worry that Bayless could be on a downward spiral if he continues to be tight when on the ball.
meh coffee is calling…
"It was White vs. Purple that's all I know." - B Roy
by pxilpooshr on Mar 17, 2009 8:35 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Is there a highly vicious turtle in nature?
The kind that takes down antelope or something? ‘Cause that’s the only turtle I can see Bayless being…the Chuck Norris of turtles.
by DonkeyShins on Mar 17, 2009 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah - a Maryland terrapin.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Mar 17, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
snapping turtles
alligator turtles etc.
Blazer's fan since '84, Spurs fan when they are not playing Portland.
↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A B A START.
by HurraKane212 on Mar 17, 2009 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I don't understand
is Bayless was a good shooter in college, and he shot the ball well in summer league. I was pretty impressed with his mid-range game during those summer league games even. Those shots he needs to take and hit to be able to drive the ball, and for whatever reason he won’t take them anymore. Teams are giving him 10-15 foot jumpers, which he should take and hit.
by usmcr3049 on Mar 17, 2009 8:51 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think his shot is "under construction"
They are trying to change his release point and quicken his release. I think it is a bit like Tiger Woods trying to change his golf swing it takes time to develop the muscle memory necessary to do the same thing every time.
I also think Bayless has lost “game confidence.” He needs to relax. Hopefully, more regular minutes will help him to relax and regain his confidence. I think it will happen by next fall, the question is whether or not it will happen this spring.
by upper left corner on Mar 17, 2009 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He doesn't have as much time
so he rushes his shot. You can tell just from how often the ball goes blasting toward the front or back rim and bounces away in a line drive. He gets his shot blocked a fair amount of the time, so he just needs to figure out how to out-craft his opponent to give himself a little more time and create some space.
Chris Dudley for three!
by wilbjammin on Mar 17, 2009 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
His confidence was probably
quite a bit higher when he was playing in the summer league. It helps when you know you’re the best player on the court. Now in the regular season Bayless is more like the 10th best player on the court. I also don’t think mid-range is where he needs to be. I think he’s been best when he’s aggressively driving the lane. If the refs gave him any sort of calls that would help too.
by DrivetheLane on Mar 17, 2009 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to say
That the things that a lot of folks around here hated about Jarret Jack are the things that Bayless does in spades (other than stepping out of bounds). The only difference I see in comparing the two is that Bayless can jump higher and might be a step quicker. The more I see of Bayless, the less enamored I am of him. Now I will definitely give him the benefit of the doubt being that he is a rookie and his playing minutes have been inconsistent at best, but other than two or three games he produced the rest have been pretty much stink bombs. Not to say that Sergio is better, nor will I attempt to defend him. And everyone saying that Bayless defense is so good is seeing something I am not. He fouls, he gets burned about 80% of the time and he doesn’t know how to play off the ball defense. Not that any of our point guards do.
"I saw him in the face" Sergio's quote on the latest alley-oop to Rudy.
by blazermaniac32 on Mar 17, 2009 8:53 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I haven't noticed Jerryd leaving his feet to pass
that’s something that Jack would do, occasionally
Of course, when Jerry leaves his feet to shoot and gets his shot blocked, the end result is similar)
by two4larue on Mar 17, 2009 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Call me a genius..
but his comment was: “Nevertheless it’s looking more and more like the real answer to the great Bayless vs. Sergio debate is "no”."
Isn’t he saying that neither is the answer? Which has been proven out by both players awful play of late. I also think it was 100% fair to call out Bayless play in that particular game as he was bad.
Most importantly, though- it’s absolutely wrong to assume Dave shouldn’t put forth strong opinions, why would he run a blog if he didn’t?
by TPfor3 on Mar 17, 2009 9:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think you missed my point.....
This was Bayless’ first game being given the back-up role. Shouldn’t we give him a little more play before drawing conclusions?
Secondly, my post was intended to be a bit of light hearted ribbing of Dave. It was not meant as a piece of uber-serious criticism. Dave is great.
by upper left corner on Mar 17, 2009 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
again- I'm a genius.. what can i say?
my two cents would be that if you make the kinds of mistakes both Sergio and Bayless have made you simply can’t be afforded more play. Their mistakes don’t just result in missed possessions. They result in immediate points for the opponent. At this point, we can’t afford those- It’s time to just run the Rudy/Roy lineup out there.
If you look at boxscores, most teams in the playoffs win with 8 man rotations. Shorten the rotation and run our “young” players out their for big minutes. Stop using “youth” as an excuse and use it as an advantage.
by TPfor3 on Mar 17, 2009 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Defense?
Who is going to defend the 1 in a Roy, Rudy back-court? Neither has the quickness to do so effectively. Defense is the reason Bayless is being given a chance.
Bayless’ 2.3 A/TO ratio in the month of Feb., along with a 10 point/game scoring and .480 FG% suggests that he has potential on the other end.
I agree that both have struggled since Blake returned. It is obvious that neither was comfortable or could get a flow in limited minutes. It was time to try something different.
by upper left corner on Mar 17, 2009 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
............................
So do you think Wade has the potential to average 40ppg in a season because he did it for a month?
by Zaig on Mar 17, 2009 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't get this..
At this point in the season we almost exclusively have Outlaw or Batum guarding the one. Now regardless of whether or not it works, that’s what this teams defensive strategy is based on (length not speed). So it doesn’t matter if Bayless or Sergio plays- we still put our SF on the oppositions PG
by TPfor3 on Mar 17, 2009 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We must be watching different channels
Outlaw has been tried for short stints with bad results. Batum has guarded a fair number of 2s, but I have not seen him on PGs for extended runs against 1s. Rudy has been tried at various points in the season and has been consistently burned by 1s.
Bayless is on the court for his defense. He is green. He makes mistakes, but he is the best answer we have on most nights.
by upper left corner on Mar 17, 2009 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do Bayless' parents have a tv station?
That’s the channel you must be watching.
Every single time we play a quick point guard, Batum or Outlaw is on him. Parker, Paul, TJ Ford…
Now, cross switches and the like make it so that a lot of times Blake, Sergio or Bayless end up on the opposing PG. But our primary strategy (and this is what you see out of time outs) is to have our SF on that PG.
by TPfor3 on Mar 17, 2009 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
First game in backup roll?
I think he had 11 of those earlier in the year, of which he did good in 2-3.
by Zaig on Mar 17, 2009 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
See stats in my post immediately above...
Bayless played very well after the first few games of Blake’s absence. His stats were improving fairly steadily.
by upper left corner on Mar 17, 2009 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's not make too much of last night being Bayless' .....
… first game as backup.
He received significant minutes when Blake was out and since Steve has returned to the lineup, Bayless’ minutes have not been much different than Sergio’s. To suggest that his performance may have been effected by nerves over being “officially” the backup point seems a bit weak to me. By this point, Bayless should be familiar with being on the court.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Mar 17, 2009 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahhh...
You have to remember, though, (and part of it is my fault for writing quickly and not making this clearer) that the comments are in the context of this season and this time of year. In other words, the answer being, “No” doesn’t mean that neither of these PGs are suitable for the team or the NBA. I have high hopes that one or both will turn out to be exactly what we need. But for this season and particularly this high-intensity playoff run they aren’t ready yet. That’s where the “no” comes in. While either or both could have great games yet, more and more Coach is going to have to rely on Steve Blake to carry us through.
—Dave
by Dave on Mar 17, 2009 9:35 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Can we sub in Rudy to run the breaks though?
by Zaig on Mar 17, 2009 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like hit a pause button, replace Blake with Rudy, and then go
by Zaig on Mar 17, 2009 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
nope
Go with Aldridge. He led the break better than any Blazer in the last 5 yrs, last night.
by TPfor3 on Mar 17, 2009 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He had a dumb turnover on one though
His only turnover of the night. He shoulda dunked it!
by Zaig on Mar 17, 2009 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oops!
My “True Enough” post below was meant to be a response to you, Dave. I forget to hit the reply button with humiliating regularity.
by upper left corner on Mar 17, 2009 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
True enough....
….but, the situation is the situation. The roster is the roster, and I think Bayless is probably the right call. His defense is better, and he showed pretty consistent improvement during Blake’s absence. Besides, I don’t think the stakes are going to be any lower next year.
I hope you took my post in the light-hearted manner it was intended. Some seem to have taken my comment as something more than a bit of teasing. I greatly respect you and appreciate this community….. Thanks!
by upper left corner on Mar 17, 2009 9:46 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
his point is
there is no “right call” because right now, both are sucking.
by kickbrass on Mar 17, 2009 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Time is needed
but right now, the answer is still… no. Let’s hope that changes this year because we really do need a back-up pg who can play or we’re dying in teh play-offs.
The future is bright, but we have a giant hole in the ship as it chugs into the harbor.
The goal is not to be better, the goal is to be the best.
by ratbastird on Mar 17, 2009 10:17 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Frustrating
This topic ends up just getting so frustrating. It’s like the animated horse (miledanimal, that was hillarious). Too see both sides of the fight stick up for their players so intently is very frustrating. Watching these two try to run the offense is frustrating. Seeing both their potentials and short falls is very frustrating. Watching Blake begin to fall down that hole is very very frustrating.
Hopefully time will turn frustrating into rewarding.
by keepfryealive on Mar 17, 2009 11:29 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Watching Frye shoot 3's is more frustrating than any of that.
by TPfor3 on Mar 17, 2009 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LMAO
I think there’s a better word for it.
by keepfryealive on Mar 17, 2009 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean this one?
Sorry, wasn’t me.
by MiledAnimal on Mar 17, 2009 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Keepfryealive
Just to set the record straight. I know Frye sucks. I would like to see the guy get a ring here in Portland though.
by keepfryealive on Mar 17, 2009 11:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He doesn't "suck" exactly.
He just needs minutes and he’s probably not going to be getting a lot of those.
by Nick Van Excellent on Mar 17, 2009 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
sergio was backup pg most of theseason
with no bayless at all. then when blake was hurt we got sergio #1 and bayless #2. add to this mass of data in nate’s mind whatever he has seen in practice.
he’s giving bayless a chance. i think we should wait and see for a few games. it’s a new situation, a new role. backing up blake is different than backing up sergio when blake is hurt.
jerryd drove to the basket twice with good results last night. good. i don’t think he’s a turnover machine. he needs to hit some jumpshotsbadly though to free up his drives.
but when a decision like this is made you see what happens, you don’t reverse yourself after just one or two games.
ignacio
by ignacio on Mar 17, 2009 11:50 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This is what I mean by selective memory
He drove to the basket twice with good result last night.
He dorve to the basket more than twice with BAD results last night.
Whatever this topic bores me. Bayless won everyone over with his 29/1.5/2.5 in Summer League and his cute little T-Rex face.
by Zaig on Mar 17, 2009 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I stopped reading right hear
smacked both Sergio, and especially Bayless, around.
Jayless sucks dude, he’s got potential, but he’s not doing it.
Superman wears Tyler Hansbrough underwear. - JTDuck22
by maid tu rek on Mar 17, 2009 2:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
in this thread, the dregs of BEdge
Superman wears Tyler Hansbrough underwear. - JTDuck22
by maid tu rek on Mar 17, 2009 2:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The bitterness of the Sergiophiles is palpable in this thread
Sorry you are so grumpy. I am not sorry that Nate appears to have made a decision with which I agree.
PG defense is a critical team weakness.
by upper left corner on Mar 17, 2009 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
fixed
The bitterness of theSergiophilesJaylessphiles ispalpable inthis thread
What's the point?
by maid tu rek on Mar 17, 2009 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
See....
now your just sort of making his point.
by Nick Van Excellent on Mar 18, 2009 2:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, I know, It works both ways,
difference being that I didn’t get all upset about something on the front page that didn’t line up with my oh so clever and insightful take on potential and write a fanpost calling out the proprieter of this blog, as though he were somehow accountable specifically to me.
What's the point?
by maid tu rek on Mar 18, 2009 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bayless is still in a shell
I say give the oportunity to bust out of it right now.
Play him all the backup PG minutes for the next week or so. If he does get them, then yes, let’s revisit. this subject.
A very nice post this was U.L. C. I will be looking for more from you on Mr. Bayless’s progress in the near future.
The Oden Era, Day 633
by Heymoe on Mar 17, 2009 2:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Lets face it.
Either you like Stallone movies, and you are a Bayless supporter
Or you like Antonio Banderas and are a Sergio supporter.
Or you think both those actors suck and just want a back up point guard to PLEASE play well.
by twggyy on Mar 17, 2009 3:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The NBA is filled with pressure.
How long can it be used as a scapegoat for poor performance? This, if any game from here til the end of the season, was not a game that should have had tons of pressure. It was a midweak game against a sub-par opponent in an arena that was 10% of capacity. The blazers maintained around a 10 point lead for most of the evening. If he can’t handle the pressure of that, then he certainly can’t handle what lies ahead.
"Respect everyone, fear no one." -TP
by Arby on Mar 17, 2009 3:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh and we should have gone for Conley when we had the chance.
"Respect everyone, fear no one." -TP
by Arby on Mar 17, 2009 4:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Dave and I have butted heads many times over his analysis of players...
and I slowly realized that most of the time, he is right. He somehow maintains an ubiased eye and writes wha he sees. Plain and simple. Sergio isn’t ready, Bayless isn’t ready, thats all he was saying. Its my personal opinion that Sergio would help our 2nd unit more than Bayless, and that is purely for the reason that Rudy tends to play better with Sergio on the floor over Bayless. Choosing between these two backups is like trying to decide whether you want a cat to pee on your favorite shirt, or a dog. Either way there isn’t much good coming out of it…
RUDY > MJ
by myemic23 on Mar 17, 2009 4:33 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I know we disagree.....
……but, I appreciate that you generally do so in a moderately amiable way. I hope I do the same.
I do think you are a bit hard on both guys. Personally I would make the analogy to mouse pee……
by upper left corner on Mar 17, 2009 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I find it weird
How poor Bayless is performing, when George Hill was excellent when he took over for the all star Tony Parker.
Westbrook beat out Earl Watson who was a solid role player in Seattle.
Rose easily beat out Heinrich.
You are telling me Bayless can’t beat out blake?
by Air Norv on Mar 17, 2009 6:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Rookie PG's
So far in the rookie PG class:
Rose(1st overall)
Westbrook(4th overall)
Chalmers(34th overall)
Hill(26th overall)
Bayless(11th overall)
Taylor(55th overall)
Dragic(45th overall)
Singletary(42nd overall)
by Air Norv on Mar 17, 2009 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forgot Augustin
So far in the rookie PG class:
Rose(1st overall)
Westbrook(4th overall)
Chalmers(34th overall)
Augustin(9th overall)
Hill(26th overall)
Bayless(11th overall)
Taylor(55th overall)
Dragic(45th overall)
Singletary(42nd overall)
by Air Norv on Mar 17, 2009 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I am not mistaken, five of your top six.....
……play for teams with loosing records. Playing for a team in a playoff struggle and one with two more established points is a tougher situation than the one that Bayless has faced this year. Also, having a perfectionistic former PG as a coach does not make it any easier.
by upper left corner on Mar 17, 2009 7:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oops, garbled syntax. Hope you get the drift.
by upper left corner on Mar 17, 2009 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rose, Chalmers & Augustin
All are in playoff contention in the east. Hill would be if he didn’t have Parker ahead of him. All of them beat out PG’s in their way, just wondering why bayless can’t.
by Air Norv on Mar 17, 2009 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My humble thoughts
Seems to me PGs have to perform three major functions: defense, scoring, and distribution. Bayless came into the league knowing how to do two of those things pretty well, for a rookie. The distribution componenet is the one that is the most difficult to learn, and the area where he lacked the most skill. I don’t think it is surprising that given limited minutes and a demanding coach, that it has taken him a bit longer to catch on. Playing limited minutes and fighting for playing time can mess with a guy’s head. If Bayless is given consistent minutes, I am reasonably confident that he will find his rhythm.
On the other hand, Sergio’s weaknesses are defense and inability to finish at the rim. I suspect that his limitations are mostly physical, lack of speed and strength. I think Bayless’ chances of learning to distribute are better than Sergio’s chances of becoming a complete PG. Obviously, others disagree. Time will tell.
by upper left corner on Mar 18, 2009 7:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Difference
Despite the age difference, Bayless has already grown into his body, I don’t think Sergio has.
Now, maybe Sergio will have a 16 year old’s body forever, who knows, but until Sergio actually “grows up” you can’t judge him as a finished project. As I’ve said many times, Sergio needs to spend the summer in the gym.
PS: Bayless can only do .5 of those 3 things now.
by Zaig on Mar 18, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, uh, you really don't have an understanding of perimeter defense.
Oh well, I’m done with you. Honestly, libertarians > liberals—and that’s that!
by AK1984 on Mar 19, 2009 2:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Libertarians are great except when they aren't.
I voted for Bob Barr but I’m not sure he would have done a very good job in the long run.
by Nick Van Excellent on Mar 19, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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