Ariza's Hit
by Dave on Mar 10, 2009 11:41 AM PDT
185 comments
Update: Rudy Fernandez is expected to be released from hospital later today. He has a bruised chest and right hip pointer. He is still listed as doubtful for Dallas on Wednesday. Quick and Freeman had it first.
Edit: No, wait! Upon further review Casey had it first, by a nose! Quick and Freeman are filing a protest but the judge from Outer Mongolia is known to be on the take, so it's unlikely to be upheld.
----------------------------------
You can't swing a cat around this morning without hitting someone who's talking about whether Trevor Ariza's clubbing of Rudy was intentional or accidental, punishable by further measures or should be left alone, part of the game or out of bounds.
I'll tell you what it was. This was the NBA equivalent of the helmet-to-helmet contact in the NFL. Is the helmet-to-helmet intentional every time? No. Does it cause injury every time? Of course not. But it's dangerous and that's why it's been outlawed and why it's punished every time.
That's why this was a Flagrant 2 instead of a lesser penalty. That's why further repercussions could be justified. Intent doesn't matter here. The risk-reward mechanic of the play and its safety are what count.
I don't believe the league will be happy with its high-flyers looking over their shoulders instead of throwing down fantastic dunks. Allowing that kind of play will diminish the game as much as allowing hand-checks on guards above the free throw line does. That's why I believe the league will uphold the Flagrant 2 and perhaps more, despite Ariza's intent or lack thereof.
Yes, this was part of the game. But it was a dangerous part of the game and a part which, if sustained, would take the focus away from the game itself. That's why it can't happen.
--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)
Edit: As a couple of you have pointed out, the league has said there will be no punishment beyond the Flagrant 2 but that the Flagrant 2 is upheld. Good enough.
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The league upheld the Flagrant 2
But no further penalties for Ariza. Still reviewing Odom.
"I saw him in the face" Sergio's quote on the latest alley-oop to Rudy.
by blazermaniac32 on Mar 10, 2009 11:42 AM PDT reply actions
What's there to review?
The dude clearly came off the bench.
"In other news, Spain has declared war on Los Angeles." -Dwight Jaynes
EPSN the magazine even says replays showed he came approx. 15 feet from the bench to enter the fracas
I’d say that’s a no-brainer, even by Stern’s limited abilites
Blazers win!
Don't underestimate...
…just how limited those abilities are. After all, maybe Odom was just “concerned”…….we can never know intent.
(sarcasm alert)
by antediluvian on Mar 10, 2009 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Exactly
Don’t give us bull about how Charles Oakley used to peg people 5x a game and this was normal back then and we should accept it.
This is a dangerous thing and a dude ended up in the hospital. Rec’d the post…good, short, and accurate analysis Dave.
Want more aggressiveness? Try less Baylesslessness.
Suspending any L*kers will hurt the Blazers.
Next three games for the L*kers: Houston, San Antonio and Dallas. As much as I hate the L*kers it will be beneficial to the Blazers if they win all three coming games.
Odom will be the only one suspended, and
He hasn’t exactly been a golden turd in their pockets the last few games….just a regular turd
Blazers win!
Yeah. But it will help the Blazers in the long term.
Sergio + Rudy = 16
Sergio + Bayless = 16
Batum 8+8=16
I'm not expecting much from the league against the l@kers....
Gosh, we wouldn’t want Stern to do anything that might throw a monkey-wrench in plans for an LA-Boston repeat.
by antediluvian on Mar 10, 2009 11:44 AM PDT reply actions 16 recs
Rec
There won't be clean officiating in the NBA until David Stern is forcibly removed by the US Congress in 2013 for fixing games.
by 123_G.O._RipCity on Mar 10, 2009 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Rec
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
Roses are red
violets in bloom
Sophia’s in love
with Nicholas Batum
-Bow4Meow
In an odd way, ante's comment is refreshing for me to see...
Because the way I’ve read it from certain folks elsewhere, you’d think Celtics are 49-0 against the NBA and 0-14 against the refs. This way of thinking gets to me a lot – and I’ll admit to doing more complainign about them this season than I have in the past, but not anywhere near that extent.
-sw
Manuel Aristides Ramirez is the greatest hitter I've ever seen.
by Steve Weinman on Mar 10, 2009 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions
In an odd way, it's refreshing to see this comment for me
Because the way I’ve read it from certain folks elsewhere, you’d think Celtics are 49-0 against the NBA and 0-14 against the refs. This way of thinking gets to me a lot – and I’ll admit to doing more complainign about them this season than I have in the past, but not anywhere near that extent.
-sw
Manuel Aristides Ramirez is the greatest hitter I've ever seen.
by Steve Weinman on Mar 10, 2009 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions
oops
don’t know why that posted again. Excuse my tech-unsavviness, please.
-sw
Manuel Aristides Ramirez is the greatest hitter I've ever seen.
by Steve Weinman on Mar 10, 2009 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Dude, you run a blog hear man, c'mon!!
Considering many call him a bust and injury prone and never amount to anything. If he plays one more game this regular season, he will have played one more game than any time in bynums career, the one non-playing year excepted. Yet NO ONE in LA complains about Bynum being injury prone, all they ever do is talk about how they can’t wait until he comes back.
I think some of it is that Portland remembers Bowie, and secondly that donkeys always REMIND us of that when they talk trash and it angers us that Oden cant prove them wrong until he is healthy. - GreatOden'sRaven
trust me, I'm rightfully embarrassed
:-D
-sw
Manuel Aristides Ramirez is the greatest hitter I've ever seen.
by Steve Weinman on Mar 10, 2009 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Here is a great question, what if Batum was ariza and Rudy was k*be? Going to the hospital
I garuntee there would be a suspension, for that reason alone there should have been a suspension
There won't be clean officiating in the NBA until David Stern is forcibly removed by the US Congress in 2013 for fixing games.
by 123_G.O._RipCity on Mar 10, 2009 11:44 AM PDT reply actions 10 recs
correct
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
Roses are red
violets in bloom
Sophia’s in love
with Nicholas Batum
-Bow4Meow
batum would be suspended and kobe would be receiving a get well card from david stern
Ball Don't Lie
Just call me Ruffin Tumble- Michael Ruffin.
speaking of colorado,
hasnt k*be had a couple adventures there before…?
The only reason i shoot 3's is cuz there ain't no such thing as 4's.
by cpt.morgan.ahoy! on Mar 10, 2009 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Great point
and unfortunately, not surprising at all that my opinion of the powers that be in the NBA office is this low
I believe in Greg Oden. To all the haters - get down with the program or stay off the wagon for all time. #52
by blazeraddict on Mar 10, 2009 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I believe Stern influences the game altho its pure conspiracy theory
That being said, I have to give righteous props to Dick Bavetta who didn’t seem to have much l*ker bias or kobe sympathy going after the Rudy hit. I got the feeling Bavetta was ashamed by the entire incident and wasn’t going to let the game get out of hand… at the Fakers expense. Kudos Bavetta for a job well done.
"I'd rather be a could-be if I cannot be an are; because a
could-be is a maybe who is reaching for a star. I'd rather be
a has-been than a might-have-been, by far; for a might-
have-been has never been, but a has was once an are." -- Milton Berle
To be honest,
the more I think about it, the more I think the refs were trying to force Phil to take Kobe out at that point. Phil had clearly given up, as witnessed by him pulling all of his starters for the rest of the game despite the 10 minute rest they got dealing with the Rudy injury. I think reports out of LA were that he wanted to pull Kobe, too, but he insisted on staying in. Plus, the game was over, even if the Lakers managed to turn everything around and score 38 in the 4th, they would have had to hold the Blazers to a season (if not record)-low 10 points. That wasn’t going to happen.
As long as Kobe was in, I could see the refs worrying about retaliation from the Blazers, given how physical the game had become. Realistically, no garbage time guys were going to do anything to each other. By putting Kobe on his fifth, I think they were just trying to force Phil’s hand with Kobe and get all the starters out of the game to prevent further issue.
I mean, let’s be honest, in what other situation would Kobe ever get called for 2 off the ball fouls on one possession?
by Royster on Mar 10, 2009 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
It doesn't really matter if it wan intentional
Add it probably wasn’t. It was sloppy, which is just as dangerous. We ask these professional athletes to do a lot. One of those things is to be careful, especially when another player is vulnerable. It was the same thing with the Bynum/Wallace foul. When you make a sloppy foul, players can get hurt. That’s why it absolutely was an F2.
it wasn't intentional it was carless and
dangerous. He just doesn’t care, that’s not good
Sophia
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
Roses are red
violets in bloom
Sophia’s in love
with Nicholas Batum
-Bow4Meow
It's the difference between murder and manslaughter
If you drive drunk and kill someone, you probably didn’t mean to. That may save you from a murder rap, but you’re still probably going to jail for a good long time.
If Ariza had intended to injure Rudy, or the tape showed no play on the ball—he would be looking at a suspension. As it is, they play was bad enough, so he gets a Flagrant 2.
There is no charge for awesomeness. Or attractiveness.
by EngineerScotty on Mar 10, 2009 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions
So...
Murder = 1-2 game suspension
Manslaughter = Flagrant 2
I’m not sure I like that. How about this.
Murder = 7 game suspension
Manslaughter = 1-2 game suspension
I wouldn't mind....
but the league’s treatment of the foul doesn’t seem to be inconsistent with its treatment of other fouls.
There is no charge for awesomeness. Or attractiveness.
by EngineerScotty on Mar 10, 2009 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
How about this?
I think that if there is an F2 foul and the player is hurt, the guy who committed the foul should be out as long as the injured player is out.
by BlazerBarb on Mar 10, 2009 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would love that
as it makes common sense. Except then you’d get into medical arguments about fitness to play that would make Dariusgate seem like a stroll in the park. Let’s say B-Roy takes a swing at Ariza last night and, since Roy is basically a superhero, knocks him silly and gives him whiplash. OK, so now Roy is out until Ariza can play again. But then Ariza starts showing up to games in a neck brace and limping for, say, the next two months…or at least until the Blazers play the L*kers again. He looks fine from here, but he’s not able to play somehow. Hmmmm…
—Dave
Suspensions should be for the next Blazer game
I’ve always thought that if someone earns a suspension during a game, it should served in the next game against that team. Why should some other team benefit from having to play the short-handed Lakers? If Ariza was suspsended he would serve that suspension for the next Blazer game.
by zach2046 on Mar 10, 2009 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
i like that
Considering many call him a bust and injury prone and never amount to anything. If he plays one more game this regular season, he will have played one more game than any time in bynums career, the one non-playing year excepted. Yet NO ONE in LA complains about Bynum being injury prone, all they ever do is talk about how they can’t wait until he comes back.
I think some of it is that Portland remembers Bowie, and secondly that donkeys always REMIND us of that when they talk trash and it angers us that Oden cant prove them wrong until he is healthy. - GreatOden'sRaven
Rec, I totally agree.
That makes a lot of sense.
"My teammates like me, they enjoy me. I'm not being too dominant in the locker room or anything like that. As long as all the things are good, I'm having fun." ~Brandon Roy
by hisblazergrrrl on Mar 10, 2009 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Another alternative that I have thought of is:
If you cause an injury to a player with a flagrant (excessive force, putting player at risk of injury) foul, and the injury causes the fouled player to miss games, then the suspension on fhe offending player is equal to the number of days the injured player is unable to play due to the injury he caused. The guy is still getting off easy, as he is not injured, but his team looses the player so they can “share the pain”, which they caused. That could give a little added motivation to not hurt someone. You would have to not allow the injured player to “extend” the injury period, just in case a distinctly “low minutes” player is injured and is “unable to play” the rest of the season, keeping out the star who commited the foul. But, still, it would have to be a flagrant, and they could get a doctor to verify the injury and a minimum disability time. I just think if you recklessly injure someone, which can be pretty easy to do when dealing with a guy well in the air, and you cart wheel him into the ground, hey, you and your team can wait for him to get well and loose a player as well. We have seen people commit the hard foul to stop a layup and send a guy to the stripe (legit play) and then help the fouled guy land safely. That shows consideration for avoiding an injury. If someone needs help in being motivated to protect another player, then the injury suspension could be useful. I also really like Dave’s point about not killing the drama of high flying plays by players not feeling protected from this type of foul.
Just convince LeBron
to throw a ball to him (in court preferably)….Trevy will stand up from his wheel chair…..he won’t be able to resist. How do I know this?…..I saw it it on TV of course
"You're welcome friend
I love you."
- Tom "Dragline" inHawaii
by 92wastheyear on Mar 10, 2009 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions
What?
This might help
"You're welcome friend
I love you."
- Tom "Dragline" inHawaii
by 92wastheyear on Mar 10, 2009 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Then, afterwards, send the tape into
America’s Funniest Home Videos and win $10,000 because the winner is always some poor schmuck takin’ a shot to the nads…comedy gold!!!
"You're welcome friend
I love you."
- Tom "Dragline" inHawaii
by 92wastheyear on Mar 10, 2009 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Such and ugly play, what an ugly scene it was
I literally went numb, and got cold sweats, no one should be on the ground in pain from being fouled while up 30 points in a BLOW OUT!
Welcome to the Terror Dome
by BlazermaniacAndy on Mar 10, 2009 11:49 AM PDT reply actions
Yea I liked how it was said in the write up
That it was probably not intentional, and he certainly didn’t mean to injure him. But he didn’t care if he did.
The reaction afterwards is what got me, and I was glad to see Brandon and Trout as well. You don’t start talking trash after that kind of foul, that would be the only way that I could see the NBA possibly making this into a suspension.
From the back of Travis Outlaw's Franz card: Travis leads the team in monstrous thunder dunks, wins awards for post game interviews, and often gets extra points for degree of difficulty.
From the back of Greg Oden's Franz card: Nickname: Jaws. Has an insatiable desire to tear rims apart while cruising the open court, and was once interested in using head-gear for his profession.
Yeah! The next game against the Lakers and Kobe we´ll only need to make it seem an accident.
Oh wait, did you tell me if it´s Kobe can´t be an accident?
Sergio + Rudy = 16
Sergio + Bayless = 16
Batum 8+8=16
(as Kobe is spitting out teeth)
Sorry man! I was aiming for Ariza! – Elgin
Blazers win BDL 2 on 2 tournament!
Skeets: i’ll close it down now … congrats. you bastards
I do believe it was intentional
The intent was the hard foul, which was completely unnecessary. Given Rudy’s speed and that he was in front of Ariza, I don’t see how you can make a play on the ball. I’ve seen it done before but usually at an angle where a guy can block the shot without making contact. When a player is directly behind another player like that, it’s not going for the block, it’s going for the foul and any piece of the ball is only an excuse.
by BarelyLegal on Mar 10, 2009 11:56 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I can't wait to see what you chose for an avater
Considering many call him a bust and injury prone and never amount to anything. If he plays one more game this regular season, he will have played one more game than any time in bynums career, the one non-playing year excepted. Yet NO ONE in LA complains about Bynum being injury prone, all they ever do is talk about how they can’t wait until he comes back.
I think some of it is that Portland remembers Bowie, and secondly that donkeys always REMIND us of that when they talk trash and it angers us that Oden cant prove them wrong until he is healthy. - GreatOden'sRaven
by maid tu rek on Mar 10, 2009 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
i dont think it was intentional
just dumb. he was frustrated and tried to wack the ball away from behind. it deserved a flagrant 2, but ariza doesnt seem like a player who would do something like this on purpose. hopefully this teaches not to do it again. now if robert horry had been two steps behind rudy on the break…
I am starting the coalition to BRING BACK IKE.
First off, thanks for beating the Lakers into the ground last night. I’ve got to believe it was an intentional foul. Why would you foul Rudy that hard in the midst of a blowout? Don’t we all know that the Lakers play dirty when they’re losing and frustrated?
And excellent further point…if this was Kobe, Lebron, D-Wade, or Chris Paul who went down and were fouled by Rudy, holy heck. Rudy’d be suspended for the remainder of the season.
"Nothing can stop the man with the right attitude from achieving his goal, but nothing on Earth can help the man with the wrong attitude." -Thomas Jefferson
http://myspace.com/eme0916
http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/profile.php?id=569220294&ref=profile
Update on Rudy
Oregonian is reporting Rudy is being released from the hospital today with a bruised right chest and a hip pointer.
http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2009/03/fernandez_to_be_released_from.html
Here are inks for information on hip pointer injury, looks like Rudy could be out up to 10 days, maybe more:
It's times like this I wish this team was in Chicago....
They send one of our men to the Hospital we send one of theirs to the MORGUE! That’s the Chicago Portland way!
Why?
Just like a Laker...
brings a knife to a gunfight.
There is no charge for awesomeness. Or attractiveness.
by EngineerScotty on Mar 10, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
They bring a knife to a debate
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
That reminds me of something MB said on the TV broadcast last night
He said the only way K*be would pick up his 6th is if he brought a knife on the floor
Blazers win!
Yeah, I heard that too.
I think he said it about Odom though, didn’t he? Like Odom would have to stab someone to get his fifth? Either way, hate the lakers, love the Mikes.
nope, K*by
Considering many call him a bust and injury prone and never amount to anything. If he plays one more game this regular season, he will have played one more game than any time in bynums career, the one non-playing year excepted. Yet NO ONE in LA complains about Bynum being injury prone, all they ever do is talk about how they can’t wait until he comes back.
I think some of it is that Portland remembers Bowie, and secondly that donkeys always REMIND us of that when they talk trash and it angers us that Oden cant prove them wrong until he is healthy. - GreatOden'sRaven
I think it was Rice who made the comment
after kobe cheap shotted Batum twice in the ribs… My hatred for the l*kers has never been more justified
"I'd rather be a could-be if I cannot be an are; because a
could-be is a maybe who is reaching for a star. I'd rather be
a has-been than a might-have-been, by far; for a might-
have-been has never been, but a has was once an are." -- Milton Berle
Ohhh good one
I was thinking we should just draft Luca Brasi, but this would be better.
Sorry missed that
Great minds think alike I was LOL all night waiting to post this today :) Can’t believe no Rec’s :(
Why?
Good thing the league is not in charge of
making sure motorists don’t kill each other on the highways.
I think intent does matter
simply because Ariza has played long enough that he knows full well (regardless of if he actually makes the block) that Rudy is going to get hurt when his going full speed and gets swiped at from behind. So he made a conscious decision to commit an act that was likely to get another player injured. More importantly he made that decision knowing that it was not going to impact the final score (since the game was out of hand). From that perspective it was an extremely malicious act that deserves a further suspension.
a picture speaks a thousand words
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
Roses are red
violets in bloom
Sophia’s in love
with Nicholas Batum
-Bow4Meow
B-Roy was not happy
Want more aggressiveness? Try less Baylesslessness.
by prezofdeath on Mar 10, 2009 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
yeh, it is
i am glad he stood up and told Ariza that he’s a jerk though
Want more aggressiveness? Try less Baylesslessness.
where did you find that?
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
Roses are red
violets in bloom
Sophia’s in love
with Nicholas Batum
-Bow4Meow
i had to pay 50,000 dollars to the popparazzi who were threatening to post it on the front of people magazine
Want more aggressiveness? Try less Baylesslessness.
Why would you post a picture like that?!
Brandon Roy just destroyed everything in his path. There's your rational analysis -- Dave
Also: COMCAST SUCKS!
Interesting
that ESPN’s story mentions Roy & Outlaw, but nothing about Aldridge. It was very obvious that Aldridge pushed Ariza and he did get a T for it, but why are they looking further at Roy & Outlaw, but not Aldridge? Or was that lack of mention simply an oversight? Or ESPN injecting their own comments…
Odom & Aldridge have exchanged words & shoves in the past. Personally, I want this rivalry fought with basketball skills not fists or fouls, but then I’m not overloaded with testosterone so I’m not comfortable with schoolyard battles.
The Blazers' winning streak over Minnesota is the longest active run in the NBA.-Associated Press 03/08
agreed
but I do like the passion :)
Sophia
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
Roses are red
violets in bloom
Sophia’s in love
with Nicholas Batum
-Bow4Meow
Much medical research has shown
that testosterone isn’t liked to aggressiveness (see this wikipedia article). It may make us guys burly, and it definitely makes us horny… :), but it ain’t what makes us angry.
There is no charge for awesomeness. Or attractiveness.
by EngineerScotty on Mar 10, 2009 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
no, cheap shots by Ariza make us angry!!!!!
...things go well I might be showing my O face...O...O...O...you know what I'm talking about.
Oh, OK
I bought into a stereotype. But I was interested in what does make men generally more aggressive than women (and aggression does not equate to anger. You may become aggressive when you are angry, but they are not interchangeable.) The wikipedia article on aggression says one reason women are less aggressive is because they are physically weaker.
But what made me smile was in the part about two different kinds of aggression : hostile (there’s the anger) and goal-oriented. “Some research indicates that people with tendencies toward affective aggression have lower IQs than those with tendencies toward predatory aggression” which I interpret to mean (with tongue in cheek) that those who advocate using basketball skills to beat them have a higher IQ than those who advocate retaliatory fouls …
The Blazers' winning streak over Minnesota is the longest active run in the NBA.-Associated Press 03/08
How awesome would it be to use that argument on the street.
“Yeah go ahead and hit me, but aggressive people are also stupid people. Take that!”
when will the league realize they can't allow these types of plays to continue?
What’s it going to take? season ending injury? career ending injury?
It’s so ridiculous!
Probably a death
….to a superstar. Kobe, CP3, Wade, LBJ, dead from this kind of action…. nobody else would do
Blazers win!
Well, I could be easily a death if the player was TJ Ford. You know he has a very serious neck problem.
Sergio + Rudy = 16
Sergio + Bayless = 16
Batum 8+8=16
Street ball baby
It will be taken care of at a later date.
Bank it.
I try to help with everything," Fernandez said. "If the coach says go rebound, I go rebound. I work for the team.
""If I'm playing this game to get media and attention, I shouldn't be here," Aldridge said. "I'm here to play basketball, and do what I can do to help this team win."
You think that Michael Ruffin will make an appearance
in the first quarter, on April 10? :)
Or should we have Shavlik be the goon?
(Or—what the heck—activate Raef LaFrentz for the honor?)
There is no charge for awesomeness. Or attractiveness.
by EngineerScotty on Mar 10, 2009 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Raef for the Flagrant.
i like it.
Rip City Baby...People have no idea what is coming.
Follow my twitter www.twitter.com/PDXBlazersFTW, @PDXBlazersFTW. Lots of random Blazer Posts from links I find around the blogosphere.
earn that 13 mill!
Rip City Baby...People have no idea what is coming.
Follow my twitter www.twitter.com/PDXBlazersFTW, @PDXBlazersFTW. Lots of random Blazer Posts from links I find around the blogosphere.
How bout the next time we play them, we give Kobe the lane
and let Pryz send him to the hospital. Flagrant 2 precedent has been set.
...things go well I might be showing my O face...O...O...O...you know what I'm talking about.
It would be sweeter to send their season to the undertaker
in the playoffs.
id rather keep Przy in the game....
we need him.
Rip City Baby...People have no idea what is coming.
Follow my twitter www.twitter.com/PDXBlazersFTW, @PDXBlazersFTW. Lots of random Blazer Posts from links I find around the blogosphere.
Activate Shavlik
Rondolph ftb (for the bruising)
by drexlerdreamer on Mar 10, 2009 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions
lol, or Raef! =)
Rip City Baby...People have no idea what is coming.
Follow my twitter www.twitter.com/PDXBlazersFTW, @PDXBlazersFTW. Lots of random Blazer Posts from links I find around the blogosphere.
my crystal ball says channing frye
because if it’s someone who never plays you escalate to a whole different level
ignacio
I was hoping this would happen last night
Joel entered the game right after all this happened. I was hoping we’d go an eye for an eye.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Mar 10, 2009 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions
You nailed it.
That’s why this was a Flagrant 2 instead of a lesser penalty. That’s why further repercussions could be justified. Intent doesn’t matter here. The risk-reward mechanic of the play and its safety are what count.
That’s the best reasoning I’ve seen regarding this escapade. People are getting caught up in arguments like “He did or didn’t mean for his foul to be so potentially harmful ". As you said, "Intent doesn’t matter here”. I think a suspension would have been a bit much, though I understand the other side’s arguments. You’ll never please everyone. Example: Basketbawful has already put the fact that Ariza was ejected in his “wussification of the league” category.
By the way, Dave — do you swing cats around on a regular basis?!? =)
Aren't the T-Wolves colors red and black?
I believe
the league is too wussified. However this was not an example. This kind of thing has been a no-no since the Rambis clothesline days.
—Dave
I'm with you on this one Dave
First off…I wish all the best heartfelt wishes to Rudy for a speedy recovery. Ariza’s play was a “no-no” as it always has been, but if you ask me, I prefer the 80’s style of NBA ball when men were men and if you bring it soft to the cup then you will pay the penalty by a hard foul. This was certainly not an example of that, as you point out, but there is an overall wussification of the league for sure.
The 80's game was out of control
Kareem was throwing punches and Kermit Washington’s smashing of Rudy T’s face are a few examples. We don’t want to go back to that. Rudy T could have been killed by that punch.
I agree
and that is not at all what I am saying. Going back to the 80’s style of basketball is as likely as network tv returning to the pre-PC days of Red Fox’s comedy. It will never happen.
It’s just that today’s NBA game has enough primadonna millionaire brats as it is. The whining to the refs after every play, the constant barking at one another… it has become laughable how tough today’s players act without the ramification of hard fouls to keep them in their places. I would never wish harm on a player, even a L*ker, but some part of me wishes that these young players today paid some sort of a price for running their mouths… something that Charles Oakley, Lambeer, etc would have been happy to do.
Kareem was throwing
punch-like substances.
Yeah, he’s a 7 foot tall big man, but he punched like my sister.
by antediluvian on Mar 10, 2009 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions
He didn't punch like it...
that’s all I’m saying. Probably more of a function of being 7 feet tall…..
by antediluvian on Mar 10, 2009 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn't want the big guy angry at me.
Blazers win BDL 2 on 2 tournament!
Skeets: i’ll close it down now … congrats. you bastards
I wonder how serious Rudy's injuries would've had to be to make the suspension not wussified
I’m kind of disgused that I share a planet with people who think this way.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Mar 10, 2009 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't like using end result
How you fall is just a fluke. I’d like the same penalty whether or not Rudy got hurt. That said, it was pretty clearly a bad hit, and the ejection was not at all unwarranted.
I like cats more than most people
And CERTAINLY more than any Laker.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
I agree
My wife likes our two cats better than me. Just kidding. Talked to a L@ker’s homer a little bit ago. He told me every shot we took last night went in. He then made a tossing motion with both arms as if throwing a ball over his head. The things us Blazer fans have to put up with!
April 10th
will be interesting…
will the Blazers be called for a foul every time a l@k&r shoots?
the calls will be different, no way k@be gets 5 fouls.
the league will have something to say to the refs before that game…
i hope the l@k&rs need that game to secure home court and we take it away from them.
Cant do that!
Dirty or not, you cant swing that recklessly ay somebodys head in mid air, AT FULL SPEED! Had Batum done that to K*be in L.A, Batum would be getting the Passion of the Christ treatment.
I will say that this is the first time I have seen Bavetta not call the game blatantly in LA’s favor.
The other thing that sucks about Rudy getting injured (other than the obvious, RUDY GETTING INJURED), is that all the talk is about that foul and not about how we laid the smack down on the “best” team in the league. B Roy was a stud, Outlaw played with aggression, Joel & LaMarcus were monsters inside, and Rudy was all over the place. So instead of heavy praise for the Blazers on ESPN fast break or Sportscenter, I got treated to nothing but “was it dirty, was it not?” for 10 minutes……sheist.
Its bad enough that the Blazers dont even get mentioned in Western Conference playoff discussions, but now our statement win of the season has turned into a flagarant foul 2 discusstion.
Get better Rudy.
Hi fans it Brandon Roy.
And ME.....LaMarcus Aldridge
you're right though
last night on espn the substance of the game was ignored
ignacio
This one's pretty easy, one one side you have idiots and Laker fans and on the other you have people with brains
Clearly a cheap shot. But apparently the NBA encourages this sort of things judging by the fact that THERE’S EVEN A DEBATE about whether smacking a guy in the head from behind on a fast break when you’re beat on the play and down 30 points is ok.
Blazer Fan
P.S. I drive drunk, but I don't mean to hurt anyone...so it's ok.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Mar 10, 2009 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I hope you don't smoke Leeroy :-)
I kid you not, I saw a lady talking about how great MADD is while she blew smoke in her kid’s direction. I wanted to uppercut her right there.
I shocked at how many people don't understand a flagrant foul 2
Many people are saying that its just a hard foul and Rudy’s fall was the main reason for the flagrant, not so much the act of the foul. Here is a clear definition from the NBA.
Flagrant Fouls: These fouls are considered unnecessary and/or excessive. There are two types of flagrant fouls, 1 and 2. A flagrant 1 is unnecessary contact. This is usually when a defensive player swings and makes hard contact with the offensive player or makes hard contact and then follows through. A flagrant foul 2 is unnecessary and excessive contact. This usually has a swinging motion, hard contact, and a follow through. Both fouls carry a penalty of two free throws and the team that was fouled retains possession. A flagrant foul 2 also results in an ejection of the player committing the foul. A player also is ejected if he commits two flagrant foul penalty 1’s.
Note the bolded part. Ariza’s foul was a textbook flagrant 2. I wouldn’t be surprised if the league used this foul to teach officials how to call a flagrant 2.
The cake is a lie. Do not bake it.
you type faster
Blazers win BDL 2 on 2 tournament!
Skeets: i’ll close it down now … congrats. you bastards
Good to know Casey has a big, big fan looking out for him! Kudos!!!
Pontiff of the Pryz for Prez Posse...
It was intentional
L@kers Coach J@ckson would have had a coronary if Rudy got the run out dunk with a 30 point lead. He has taught his players to put a player down in a situation like that. Coach should take part of the blame too. When someone is that alone on the break it should be understood that you just have to let them go!
Meh I'm all for fouling, make him shoot free throws.
But swing at their arms in a sideways motion, not their head. It’s actually really easy to make someone miss a fast break layup without risking an injury, Ariza just chose to ignore that.
When someone is the air,
leading the break and that vulnerable, he or she should be left alone, period. Contact of any sort should be considered flagrant and the offending player should be tossed. No questions asked.
Gotta say Jordan F. was raised up a bit in my book.
Only guy who seemed to be more worried about Fernandez than anything else.
Ariza definitely took a dive. Dangerous play with attitude after it. That is Bruce Bowen plus a bad attitude. That is enough to make me dislike someone for the rest of their career. As others have said, if he wanted to make a statement foul he could’ve just held Fernandez down and wrapped him up. Verdict: Ariza is on my most disliked basketball players list.
The foul was intentional in my opinion as well. At least in this sense: Ariza is a basketball expert who reasonably knew the likely results if he swung his arm at forehead level from behind another player raised up in front of the basket.
Maybe this is the attitude Jackson wants to practice if they make the finals this year?
".. is gumby an alien?"
by staylost on Mar 10, 2009 3:00 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Also about Jordan F.
He didn’t challenge Roy on his throw down later in the game when he could have undercut him. There was nothing to be gained. It was an intelligent decision.
Dont expect the retaliation in April
The league will have that game under a microscope,besides the lakers pulled that stunt in our house. Portland needs the payback to come in there building. The playoffs would be perfect but I look for Portland to send a message next season in there building.
I try to help with everything," Fernandez said. "If the coach says go rebound, I go rebound. I work for the team.
""If I'm playing this game to get media and attention, I shouldn't be here," Aldridge said. "I'm here to play basketball, and do what I can do to help this team win."
Agree on Farmer
While I thought that was a terrible foul and I think Ariza needed to be ejected, out of ALL the people on the court – the only person who immediately came over to see if Fernandez was OK was Farmer.
While the passion takes over and the Blazers were defending their teammate, no one came over to see how Fernandez was except for the opposing player. Everyone was stacked in a corner pushing and shoving. Basketball players nowadays never really land anything except a bunch of posturing and trash talking.
Fernandez was by himself longer than he should have been. I’m just saying.
by Gwen on Mar 10, 2009 4:00 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
for that matter
Why did the team doctors wait so long to come out?
And yes, I also don’t get why it’s more important to be manly than to check on Rudy. Props to Farmer.
I read somewhere today
that one of the officials not involved in the fracas signaled to the bench about the injury, that the Blazers’ bench and everyone on it was too focused on the scuffle to notice Rudy was still down.
And credit Farmar for pointing it out for the ref to see.
Blazers win!
SportsCenter just said that Odom is suspended for 1 game.
no links yet i guess…
"I saw him in the face"
by RoodiePhirnandizz on Mar 10, 2009 4:08 PM PDT reply actions
That was a 100% predictable guaranteed take it to the bank inevitability....
The mystery is why it took the league longer that 30 seconds to make that determination…
Pontiff of the Pryz for Prez Posse...
here it is PIMP
Sophia
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
Roses are red
violets in bloom
Sophia’s in love
with Nicholas Batum
-Bow4Meow
dang Roodie this was supposed to be a reply to you
:)
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
Roses are red
violets in bloom
Sophia’s in love
with Nicholas Batum
-Bow4Meow
thanks brophia.
cool nickname, yes?
"I saw him in the face"
by RoodiePhirnandizz on Mar 10, 2009 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions
try again BRUH
Sophia
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
Roses are red
violets in bloom
Sophia’s in love
with Nicholas Batum
-Bow4Meow
joke
that was a joke
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
Roses are red
violets in bloom
Sophia’s in love
with Nicholas Batum
-Bow4Meow
Rudy has now just been elevated to Blazer Cult Hero status in our house!
He joins Drazen Petrivic,Billy Ray Bates,and Jerome Kersey who actually knew how to block a fast break from behind!
I Love Him
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
Roses are red
violets in bloom
Sophia’s in love
with Nicholas Batum
-Bow4Meow
Speaking of Kersey
do you remember the game in LA when one of the L@kers cut him and he flipped upside down and landing smack on his head? I remember thinking he broke his neck. It was the ugliest fall I’ve ever seen.
batum knows
as we all know batum makes this kind of play all the time without hurting or touching anyone. that seems to me to make the point that players of this caliber know exactly what their doing. you cant tell me this was an accident, i dont believe it.
Even Batum is only able to get blocks in situations like that if the player goes for a layup
Rudy looked like he was going for a dunk, and blocking a dunk from behind in that sort of situation is pretty much impossible to do without fouling.
It was not an accident
He said he went for a hard foul. Down 30 that’s just frustration, totally inappropriate and classless.
And no, Batum, AK, Prince and LBJ don’t go for balls like that, ever, it’s looks quite different to actually go for a block in that situation.
It only hurts when he laughs
Says Sergio via olive
The Blazers' winning streak over Minnesota is the longest active run in the NBA.-Associated Press 03/08
Was the officiating last night outstanding?
It seemed like the calls were actually…. right. The srekaL (hold to mirror) play like that all the time and last night they found out what it’s like when refs actually call fouls for what you’re doing wrong. It was refreshing.
Life is hilarious.
No kidding!
I heard Rice comment that one of the 10 or 11 cardinal rules of the NBA was “Thou shalt not call travelling on K*be”….but they did, and correctly so
Blazers win!
I posted this on Penguin's "aggression will not stand" thread
but this thread is getting more hits so I’ll fly it here as well:
The foul was intentional and Ariza is a liar for saying otherwise.
Dude swung his arm to generate momentum for the collision he intended to happen on Rudy’s noggin. There’s never any need to swing the arm in order to block a shot; in fact, it takes way longer to swing the arm to reach a target than simply to poke at the target. The ball is not a cannonball that requires substantial effort to divert from its trajectory. Any part of the body, even a finger, making any contact with the ball will do that. If Ariza were "going for the ball" as he said, he only needed to reach straight forward and get his hand on top of it as Rudy went up with it. The only reason to swing your arm is when you plan to use it as a club against your opponent. By swinging his arm, Ariza made it clear that he wanted to clobber Rudy, not block the shot.
Why did Ariza not just block the shot?
He was ticked-off that the Blazers were humiliating his team.
Phil Jackson had just told the team they needed to get tougher.
He wanted to enhance or build a reputation as a tough guy.
He knew if he blasted Rudy hard enough the shot would fail.
He figured he could get away with it.
He knew the foul had the potential to seriously hurt Rudy, but he just did not give a rat’s patootie about it.
That foul would have been bad enough had it happened on the floor, but up in the air like that, it became life-threatening. Reckless endangerment and blatant disregard for the well-being of a peer… the league should take incidents like this way more seriously than it does.
by MiledAnimal on Mar 10, 2009 6:00 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
+92
"You're welcome friend
I love you."
- Tom "Dragline" inHawaii
by 92wastheyear on Mar 10, 2009 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Nope, he sure isn't
He’s looking at the back of Rudy’s head to see if he got him hard enough
Blazers win!
seems like all he had to do was get his hand under the ball and lift up.
"There are a few teams you have to watch out for in the fourth quarter."
"Yeah, but Portland definitely is not one of them."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters at the end of the third quarter with the Hornets leading 74-59. Portland later ends up winning 97-89.
"They don't mind him shooting that shot at all. Rudy Fernandez is not that great of a 3pt shooter."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters right after a Rudy Fernandez missed 3pter. Rudy Fernandez finished the game with three 3pters on six attempts.
by Tofu Anonymous on Mar 11, 2009 12:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Fantastic job, Dave
Really liked the helmet-to-helmet contact in the NFL analogy especially as well as the risk-reward thought, a sentiment which I echo in the Daily Babble set to come out tomorrow afternoon at CB.
My only minor quibble is that I don’t see the flagrant 2 as good enough. The league needs to do more to encourage players to think twice before taking that sort of swing, no matter the intent. As you say, there’s too much risk. I think the flagrant 2 plus a one-game suspension would have done more in that direction and still been fair.
-sw
Manuel Aristides Ramirez is the greatest hitter I've ever seen.
by Steve Weinman on Mar 10, 2009 6:24 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Thanks, Steve
Hey, what say we meet in the Finals this year? Think you could arrange that? Do you have that kind of pull?
—Dave
right on Steve
my sentiments exactly. – Elgin
Blazers win BDL 2 on 2 tournament!
Skeets: i’ll close it down now … congrats. you bastards
At what point does/should a coach or organization get scrutiny ...
"Sergio and I obtained chalupas to understand their power. Then Sergio showed that each one has 427 calories and 27 grams of fat. Leaping upwards, we reviled the accursed chalupa and its pressure. – Rudy Fernandez
It hasn't been very long since the Lakers sent Gerald Wallace to the hospital
"Sergio and I obtained chalupas to understand their power. Then Sergio showed that each one has 427 calories and 27 grams of fat. Leaping upwards, we reviled the accursed chalupa and its pressure. – Rudy Fernandez
just get the full body suit.
"There are a few teams you have to watch out for in the fourth quarter."
"Yeah, but Portland definitely is not one of them."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters at the end of the third quarter with the Hornets leading 74-59. Portland later ends up winning 97-89.
"They don't mind him shooting that shot at all. Rudy Fernandez is not that great of a 3pt shooter."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters right after a Rudy Fernandez missed 3pter. Rudy Fernandez finished the game with three 3pters on six attempts.
by Tofu Anonymous on Mar 11, 2009 12:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Dirtyyy
was supposed to go to the game tmrw. not happening.. looks like buffalo wild wings.. here i come!
"Awesome! Totally awesome! All right, Hamilton!"
I'm watching the game at home for a change
One of the few times that they’re showing the game on KGW since I got my new TV with the HD tuner, so I don’t have to watch it all fuzzy-like, like I did the last New Orleans game.
Get to finally watch the TV for what I actually bought it for!
Blazers win!
Well good thing rudy is not hurt too bad.
That coulda been the game that brought rudy back to his form in the olympics.
But mabey this little rest will get him through the wall and ready to contribute down the homestretch
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