Trade Drawer for Sunday, February 8th
by Dave on Feb 7, 2009 9:50 PM PST
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PrintSince the deadline is approaching I figure we'd better have a trade drawer every day now. Consider this Sunday's. Please keep all prospective trade talk in this thread. Somebody else can start Monday's.
--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)
204 comments
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Comments
I just really want to see a trade of any kind.
They are always exciting and i love cheering for the new player. Hopefully KP can get something done that will aid us on the defensive/leadershipiveness end of the floor…
"I saw him in the face"
by RoodiePhirnandizz on Feb 7, 2009 9:53 PM PST reply actions
trade for trade sakes
to satisfy the fans… bad stragedy
"Every time a trade proposal goes up on Blazers Edge, a big man on the Blazers takes a long distance jump shot."--- Who else?
It's part of the Blazers TEV
“Total Entertainment Value” You know, like raising ticket prices and starting Greg.
I secretly question the fanhood of fans of trades
If they want a trade, then they don’t support the players that are on the team. If they don’t support the players on the team, then they don’t support the Blazers. If they don’t support the Blazers, then they are probably secretly a Lakers fan.
It's not offensive until someone reads it.
now that's just blowing the whole thing out of proportion...
I want a trade that will make us a better team, even if that means parting ways with Travis or Sergio. I support our players like none other and would be sad to see them go, but if KP could get us somebody that can play a lick of defense, get him. And only REAL secret L*kers fans come on this board and actually spell out the entirety of the Team-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named.
"I saw him in the face"
by RoodiePhirnandizz on Feb 8, 2009 1:58 PM PST up reply actions
Either you're with the Blazers or you're against them.
I like frogs.
by Dragline on Feb 8, 2009 2:03 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
You caught me, I hate the Blazers.
Against them.
"I saw him in the face"
by RoodiePhirnandizz on Feb 8, 2009 2:09 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe, but saying you want to see a trade "of any kind" because they are exciting
is pretty much like running out of your house naked waving a big red flag and yelling “Look at me, I’m a idiot.” You are bound to attract some sort of comment and it is unlikely to be positive.
hakkaa päälle !
A trade needs to happen anyways.
like jksnake said below me, not trading RLEC is a wasted opportunity. I was simply stating that i enjoy cheering for the incoming players of a trade.
"I saw him in the face"
by RoodiePhirnandizz on Feb 8, 2009 1:22 PM PST up reply actions
Worst case scenario is that we'll have the same opportunities next year.
Not trading RLEC is not a wasted opportunity. Its a strategic play. There are plenty of opportunities to make the team slightly better, but maybe not maximizing our value. Waiting for the right opportunity at the right price is a different thing entirely. I don’t think there would be anything wrong not trading RLEC and not signing a FA this offseason, seeing what we have on our team and what we need on our team, and then solving it at next years more lucrative trade deadline.
I'm not that patient as11.
I want a defensive stopper/ veteran leader for the young’ns for THIS years postseason so that we can possibly taste some success. I guess it all depends on whether KP sees a deal that he likes, he’s the professional. 11 more days…
"I saw him in the face"
by RoodiePhirnandizz on Feb 8, 2009 1:47 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, I agree with as11osu
The beaver may not be blessed with tact, but people impatient about success this year are only correct when that success this year helps next season’s team; my opinion.
If you argue that a veteran stopper will make our Blazers better for future seasons, then I OK with that kind of trade.
".. is gumby an alien?"
I see what you're saying and i agree with you.
I want success EVERY year obviously, and if we can get someone before the deadline that will improve our team this year and for years to come then KP should pull the trigger. I’m not looking for a one-postseason quick fix…
"I saw him in the face"
by RoodiePhirnandizz on Feb 8, 2009 3:49 PM PST up reply actions
I agree trades can be fun
but doing so just for the sakes of change & excitement without any real rationale attached to it is what scares me.
Roy Tribute
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.
the real rationale is getting a better player that can play defense.
"I saw him in the face"
by RoodiePhirnandizz on Feb 8, 2009 1:22 PM PST up reply actions
Not trading RLEC would be a major missed opportunity
This team needs defensive help, and it needs it pronto.
Boomshakalaka
I agree
Childress could be had in the offseason, should we choose not to trade Raef. His euro contract allows him to come over after every offseason if he so chooses. He would be a restricted free agent.
From what I've read he has been pretty unremarkable in Greece
Kind of scary… I hope he didn’t hurt his future in the NBA with that move.
This is what Lucas would do. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0aPkIE2qK0
by 123_G.O._RipCity on Feb 8, 2009 12:40 AM PST up reply actions
Completely agree
Difficult for me to believe RLEC won’t get moved. There has to be defensive help available. From somewhere. Anywhere.
The Blazers supposed “stopper” (Boom Boom Batum) would be considered a defensive liability on a lot of teams. He has plenty of potential, don’t get me wrong, but it’s a couple years from the realization stage.
Martell will help, when he finally returns healthy. But not enough.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
OK, like who?
Blazer’s need a veteran defensive stopper. Like it’s just that easy. Identify the need and then make the decision you are going to trade to fill it.
You’ve done the easy part. What any knowledeable 13 year old could probably do. Now comes the not so easy part. Actually finding a team you can make a deal with. One that has a player that fits your need, is a good fit with the rest of the team, is available and who won’t cost you an arm and a leg to acquire.
hakkaa päälle !
we have enough talent to get a Battier type player
I doubt we’d go get him… but he is that defensive stopper.
That sounds like it might be within reason.
I don’t see Houston having a lot of interest, but then again maybe they would. Battier looks to be one of the few guys that is a good fit.
One thing I would like to point to all the people who seem to be of the opinion that by adding a good defensive player, Portland is going to start playing better defense – think again. I’ve come to the conclusion that defense is far more a team thing, than it is one of having good to great individual defenders. The Blazer’s could add the best defensive player in the league and it would likely only improve their overall defense marginally, if at all. Battier’s defense won’t help much when the other 4 guys miss their rotations or don’t fight through screens or move their feet.
If Portland is going to become a good defensive team, it will be due to the guys we have learning how to play good D. And more importantly make a commitment to playing D.
hakkaa päälle !
right
I think a veteran defender like Battier would help to hold guys accountable, as well as playing great man on man defense.
ummm
Sunday is February 8.
Oh wwll, I’m not going to nitpick or split hairs.
Truth comes as a conqueror
only to those who have lost the art
of receiving it as a friend.
Rabindranath Tagore
by dwarfgoper on Feb 7, 2009 10:03 PM PST reply actions 4 recs
What is a nit, and how would one pick it?
Rec for owning the boss.
"I love the Spurs!" -Hitler
by TheTinfoil on Feb 7, 2009 10:04 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd for referring to Dave as "the boss"
Just sounds cool.
Want more aggressiveness? Try less Baylesslessness.
A nit is the egg of a lice
Lice affix their eggs to hair. Removing said lice eggs (nits) requires exhaustive picking through hair strands, one by one.
Truth comes as a conqueror
only to those who have lost the art
of receiving it as a friend.
Rabindranath Tagore
rec'd for fixing it.
"I saw him in the face"
by RoodiePhirnandizz on Feb 8, 2009 12:09 AM PST up reply actions 5 recs
Rec'd for realizing a good rec when you see one
I'm a little confused by your tactics
by oderiferous emanations 74 on Feb 8, 2009 12:58 PM PST up reply actions 6 recs
rec'd for rec'ing me
"I saw him in the face"
by RoodiePhirnandizz on Feb 8, 2009 1:48 PM PST up reply actions 5 recs
Stat padders
What are you Lebron in the MSG?
".. is gumby an alien?"
by staylost on Feb 8, 2009 2:11 PM PST up reply actions 5 recs
rec'd
Got ta keep it going, keep it goin full steam!
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 8, 2009 2:12 PM PST up reply actions 6 recs
rec'd for sheer determination
"I saw him in the face"
by RoodiePhirnandizz on Feb 8, 2009 5:41 PM PST up reply actions 6 recs
rec'd for any thread with a beastie boy lyric
I'm afraid Chiekh Samb's kids are going to be born ducking
by GreatOden'sRaven on Feb 8, 2009 9:24 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
rec'd for having a will ferrell avatar.
GREAT ODEN’S RAVEN!
"I saw him in the face"
by RoodiePhirnandizz on Feb 9, 2009 11:41 PM PST up reply actions
I agree
Give us tradeoholics some kind of fix…..we need somegthing to take off the edge please….how about shavlik Randolph for 2 super bowl 2 shirts and Labrons headband…plllleeeeessseee man…
with the impending PHX firesale
I gotta believe KP is working the phones trying to get in as a 3rd team. PHX needs expiring contracts and young players. check and check. We just don’t really need Amare or Shaq. Theres gotta be another team out there that has something we want but doesn’t have what PHX wants in return for those guys.
The Blazers as a whole are far more like my wife than like me in the sense of their physicality on defense.
-Dave
Chicago
KP wants Deng and and Chicago wants to get rid of a short player via Heinrich Gordon Hughes not Rose. all but Rose have a large amount of money attached to them….Maybe Gordon/Deng sounds right but I heard Chicago is tired of waiting for Portland to make up there mind….I am guessing on all of this but I bet they want Lafrentz plus two non starters…..via Outlaw and Fernandez…..I wouldn’t do this deal maybe for Fry instead of Fernandez …
Deng/Hinrich
I wouldn’t do a package that included Rudy for either/both of those guys, and I think they’d both fit well with the Blazers. Rudy is already very valuable B ROy injury insurance, and I don’t think we can fully evaluate him until next season (year of NBA + no crazy Euro/Olympic/NBA trifecta schedule)
Jerryd Bayless = Marlo Stanfield
- Early stage Marlo at this point, but Bayless is the emotionless killer new to the game. He will take over, and there will be casualties – it’s just a matter of time.
by blazeraddict on Feb 7, 2009 11:49 PM PST up reply actions
Weak Trade
Chicago does not have assets. They have a balence sheet full of liabilities.
by Webbed Toes on Feb 8, 2009 8:42 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Picking up Deng/Hinrich would be huge.
Those guys are both really good defenders. They’re not good as the first/second/third option on the Bulls, but would they do just fine as the fourth/fifth options on the Blazers.
Um, yes. Absolutely.
If a trade adding Deng and Hinrich and not giving up any starters (or Bayless) wouldn’t satisfy you, then there are few feasible trades out there that would. Put down the trade machine and slowly back away.
I wouldn’t want to give up Rudy, either. And I don’t think KP will – not after they spent so much time persuading Rudy to go stateside, in the first place. Seems kinda suspect to turn right around and package him. Almost a breach of trust.
But if he did include Rudy in a deal, for those two guys, make no mistake – it would improve the team. A lot. The difference is on D.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
Sessions
Sessions had 44 points on 13-18 shooting, 13 dimes tonight. That Jefferson/Sessions for RLEC/Outlaw/Sergio, etc. is sure looking better and better.
You won't get him
he’s their only PG right now.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
If
They are having a fire sale, and if they want to get rid of Jefferson’s contract, and if they take Sergio in a trade, then I suppose they would do it. They would still have one PG, and Bell as backup.
Agree if we can
but I’m thinking the Portland-Memphis relationship might need some more cooling time. Hopefully something like the Miles episode wouldn’t hold up a deal, but people can be pretty petty
Jerryd Bayless = Marlo Stanfield
- Early stage Marlo at this point, but Bayless is the emotionless killer new to the game. He will take over, and there will be casualties – it’s just a matter of time.
by blazeraddict on Feb 7, 2009 11:47 PM PST up reply actions
The only reason to mess with Memphis....
Is to hold their feet to the fire. Conley is way too weak with no added benefits to be worth discussing. Memphis is a glorified NBDL team. Give me a break guy. Maybe for Shavlick…but that might be too much
Actually
The whole reason Memphis signed Darius was to punish Portland for backing out of a trade of Conley. Think about it.
I agree... Nokstroll
posted this yesterday and now I see his point with Jefferson and Sessions. This trade makes the best sense right now. My dream is to get Calderon, but that ain’t reality.
RLEC for big expiring contract from Eastern team out o the money...
…………………Think along those lines…
The cilantro in your tapioca pudding since 2007.™
A trade drawer with no trades posted in 2 hours...wow.
Here goes.
Philly gets a PF this year and a C for next year opposite Brand, in Stoudamire. They still have Dalenbert. And get a starting PG in Blake.
Portland gets 3 good to great defenders. Iggy, Evans and Miller.
Phoenix gets cap relief and two good young players. RLEC, Outlaw and Sergio.
Phoenix sounds desperate…they want to trim 40 million by the trade deadline. O’neal, Stoudamire and Nash are the only way to do that and they (reportedly) want to keep Nash.
Stoudamire is (also reportedly) already packing his bags.
Oh, Philly is not sure if they are going to be able to sign Miller in the summer.
They get Blake and he’s no chump.
Not sure Iggy
Is on the block. Wouldn’t mind having him though.
Also not sure anyone in the league besides us sees Blake as any kind of starting PG. Even as a placeholder.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Feb 8, 2009 1:32 AM PST up reply actions
that would leave th 76ers
with Amare, Brand, & Spreights as PF’s.
They’d be paying 33 million in salary next season to the PF position, almost 57% of the total cap.
They won’t be that financially irresponsible
Did PHX REALLY just trade Amare for the same package we've been offering for Hinrich or Deng?
If RLEC + Trout + Sergio = Amare, lets go ahead and take Amare ourselves.
I am in if we could get him that cheap but
where do we play Amare? Starting or behind LMA?
I would do this in a second
…but I don’t think there is any way phili would do it. It tears the heart out of their team. Iggy is awesome & has some toughness. Evans also tough. Miller is solid. I like it. …but i think it would be too disruptive for Phili to lose 2 starters.
We all know what K*be did in Colorado to that girl. Dear Lord, please let whatever team that plays the LA Clankers beat them to oblivion. Amen.
Philly and Phoenix get screwed
Amare is an all-star and an olympian. Phoenix isn’t letting him go for that cheap. Philly gets their team ripped apart, not likely… and the #1 reason I don’t like this? EVANS IS A B*TCH!!!!!!!!!! Easily in my top ten most hated players
#5
New York & Memphis
I like the two trades that were rumored earlier this season. Sergio & Frye for David Lee and Travis for Michael Conley Jr. There could probably be a three way trade with those teams that would get us another helpful guy or two if we add Raef into the deal to NY.
Conley would be a substantial defensive upgrade from Sergio. And David Lee is a very good at both PF and C positions. We could go big sometimes with Greg or Joel at center, David Lee at PF and LA at SF. David Lee can also play center in games where Greg or Joel are out for an injury, or both are in foul trouble.
Questions as to Availability
What teams say publicly and what they say behind the scenes is very likely two different things. However, Hollins has changed the approach to Conley and has stated publicly that it’s time to give him his head and find out how well the #5 pick plays. As a result, I’m not sure that Conley will be going anywhere until this plays out, meaning summer at the earliest. Chicago has also been playing better lately. Hinrich is back, and it’s no longer clear that they are in the market to trade him as the three guard rotation they now have of Rose, Gordon and Hinrich is working well. Whether or not they can keep and resign Gordon is their #1 problem. And, until they resolve this, they may not be willing to pull the plug on Hinrich, if only because their backcourt would be non-existent if both were gone, and if they didn’t get an equivalent player back. Then, of course, the other team with an extra PG is Charlotte, but Augustin’s injury seems to have taken Felton off the market at least until summer.
Philly has Miller, and he fits the “experienced” veteran role that KP is reported to be looking for – and would fit our windown nicely as we bring Bayless along in the next two or three years. However, again, there have been reports that they aren’t enthusiastic about moving him right now because they’re playing well – without Brand. But, whether that translates into a playoff – or is just talk, we don’t know. The SF position is easier to see than PG. Marion with Memphis, Carter with New Jersey, Salmon with Sacramento, and perhaps – given the front line is playing better – Deng with Chicago, and Wallace with Charlotte, might all be available.
Swings are certainly more available than PG’s, which is why even though the report is out that KP is looking for a veteran PG and a solid backup PF, that may be just one line he’s pursuing.
Webster’s injury, after all, definitiely punched a hole in our plans this year, and Outlaw’s inability to pick up the slack at the starting SF slot pushed us to use Batum, and although Batum has shown that he’ll be around – he’s simply not able to give us both the offense and defense at that slot we should have from a starter. All year we’ve been plugging the hole first with Batum, and then with Rudy and Outlaw. But it’s definitely not ideal.
Excellent summation
so what do you think about Jefferson and Sessions. I’ve been saying Jefferson does nothing for me but that isn’t fair because I know nothing about his defense. Can someone drop some knowledge on me? I know Sessions would be great but that gives us 3 potential starting PG’s in Blake, Bayless and Sessions. It would seem to me that KP would have to follow it up with another trade dealing either Blake or Bayless if he is indeed sold on Sessions.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
The consensus around the league GMs
is that Jefferson all but has a giant fork sticking out of his back from what I gather. I was always skeptical of him to begin with since his best years were always playing alongside Kidd in his prime, which is even more of a stat inflator than Mike D’Antoni. I would love Sessions, but Jefferson is one name I see thrown around that nauseates me.
Nocioni is horrible though
I wouldn’t want him on my team, and then throw in his horrible contract… yuck.
Nocioni is horrible
Double whammy. You hit it on the head
yup
I don’t know if hanging out at BaB has soured me on him more than I ought to be. But I would throw myself off of a tall building after lighting myself on fire like a Buddhist monk if we traded for Nocioni.
by BlazersOrBust on Feb 8, 2009 8:43 AM PST up reply actions
No kidding
I want a keyboard shortcut that automatically skips past any post that mentions Nocioni coming to the Blazers. Ctrl-Z-N or something.
by Corvid on Feb 8, 2009 12:02 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I have a wild theory
it’s a two-parter.
First, we know that the Blazers have targeted Salmons in the past: if you’ve been living under a rock, you can read about it here or here.
So I’m expecting something like this. He’s a versatile veteran who will bring three-point shooting, defense, and toughness to our small forward position, and Thomas is an expiring contract next season who will let us be active at the deadline to acquire one more piece, if necessary, despite being over the cap after the summer of 2009.
The primary objection has been, “But what about the glut of SF/PF we now have?” It’s fine for this season because Martell isn’t coming back for any substantial time (just my opinion, but I think the evidence thus far has borne me out) which leaves us starting Salmons, Batum getting his 18 minutes off the bench, and Travis getting a slight minute cut but still playing a little at the 3, mostly at the backup 4, and next to LMA if Nate wants to go small. Next season with Martell’s return it gets dicey though….
Which is why I think we could sign and trade with Utah to get Millsap. Utah inks Millsap for about $8 mil and trades him to us for Martell and Travis (this assumes, of course, that they resign Boozer). Travis can step right in to Millsap’s backup PF position, and Martell is cheap, young, and potentially better than any of the glut of mediocre swingmen that Utah has (Price, Miles, Almond, etc). We get some much-needed toughness at PF and consolidate our talent. Our roster now looks like this:
Blake/Bayless
Roy/Rudy
Salmons/Batum
LMA/Millsap
Greg/Joel
That looks like an excellent rotation for the next several years, with Bay stepping in and taking the reins in the next couple of seasons. It gives us defense, three-point threats, and makes our frontcourt one of the best in basketball. Thoughts?
Boozer is not signing before the trade deadline unless there is some sort of a sign and trade deal where he’s leaving… so I don’t see how this proposal is possible.
I like Millsap (he would be a perfect backup 4), but couldn’t care less about Salmons.
Also, I always veto any trade that uses “consolidate our talent” as a primary consideration. :-) Good effort though.
MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)
by The Cactus Leaguer on Feb 8, 2009 9:36 AM PST up reply actions
I didn't mean
that this would be a trade deadline deal — I was thinking summer of ‘09. They resign Boozer (in this hypothetical) and trade Millsap to us in a sign and trade. For us, Millsap + Salmons >>>>>> RLEC + Trout + Martell…the problem would be getting Utah to agree. They’ve gotta do SOMETHING with Boozer/Millsap, and this would address their situation while adding a couple of nice pieces, but they can probably find something better.
by BlazersOrBust on Feb 8, 2009 10:11 AM PST up reply actions
Right – but RLEC becomes RLE’dC next summer, so the deal doesn’t work then either.
MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)
by The Cactus Leaguer on Feb 8, 2009 10:16 AM PST up reply actions
Salmons at the deadline
and Millsap in the off-season, for the purposes of the hypothetical. The only problem is I’m not sure if Martell is a BYC player this summer or not, which monkey-wrenches the whole thing.
by BlazersOrBust on Feb 8, 2009 10:21 AM PST up reply actions
Got it, thanks
Can’t see us dumping RLEC for Salmons though, but again I’d love to get Millsap somehow.
MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)
by The Cactus Leaguer on Feb 8, 2009 10:29 AM PST up reply actions
Love Milsap, but so does Utah
No way Utah even picks up the phone, and Milsap’s probably getting paid more than $8 mil. He’s had a double/double in like 28 of 30 since he entered the starting line up. Sloan has said publicly that Milsap will be on the Jazz next year no matter what.
I like where your head’s at, but it would take a lot – a LOT – more than that to get Utah to consider giving up a young PF playing that well. This may sound crazy, but I bet including Lamarcus in a deal STILL wouldn’t get it done. Milsap has been objectively better up to this point in their careers. It’s a fact.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
You're probably right
Even if he signs for $10 mil/per, it would still work cap-wise, but I’m probably undervaluing Millsap’s worth to Utah. Like I told Cactus above, Utah has to do something with Boozer/Millsap, and if they don’t want to let Boozer walk for nothing (and I’m quite certain they don’t) then one or the other is going to get moved. This idea sort of sprang from that basic premise.
by BlazersOrBust on Feb 8, 2009 10:13 AM PST up reply actions
Not Bad.
I like the thought. I imagine the only fly is whether or not Utah decides to keep Millsap and trade Boozer. And, I suspect the first piece is why the trade surfaced as one possibility for Sac and KP. Salmon give us two years, while we bring Batum along. And then, at 31, given a contract that ends at $5.8 million, he’ll still be a very tradeable – keepable piece. At the same time, we keep all the other pieces, to include Webster, Outlaw, Sergio, Frye etc., which enables us to get a solid backup PF for Aldridge – even if it’s not Millsap. Granted, he’s more of a swing than a prototypical SF – but its still an upgrade.
As I pointed out, there’s a lot more talk about swings being available – than PG’s. So even though a PG is probably on the top of KP’s list, a more likely result is the SF slot.
The only PG that seems certain to be moved by summer is Felton – given Charlotte doesn’t think they’re going to want to bid on his new contract. Hinrich too – but again, summer seems more likely.
Of course, with Chicago in the Stoudamire hunt, you can never rule out a 3 way trade.
my thoughts
if we trade for another tweener guard or tweener swingman i think it would give the team a much more solid rotation, the same could be done for the frontcourt.
we could have a
roy-bayless-tweener (1-2) for guards
roy-(webster/batum)-tweener (2-3) for swingman
lamarcus-webster-travis for forwards
lamarcus-oden-tweener big for the frontcourt
My (weak) case for trading Rudy
-Other teams in the league values him highly, especially in the larger markets where he can attract a big international audience. In fact, his value might be as high now as it ever will be during his tenure in Portland.
-He is going to waste away as a perpetual backup to BRoy… and will probably get frustrated and leave when he becomes a FA
-KP and the coaching staff, since they work with him every day, may have spotted deficiencies in his game that other teams have not (yet).
-Solid backup shooting guards are not hard to find in the NBA. Heck, if Rudy went down, we could easily plug in Bayless or Webster into that spot for 15 minutes a night and we’d be just fine.
I’m not saying that we trade him for a bag of balls, or toss him in on one of those stupid trade proposals suggested by Bill Simmons or another national hack (who was that guy who suggested we trade RLEC and half our roster for Vince Carter?). Rudy is a valuable commodity and I’d hate to see him go, but if he can be the piece needed to swing a deal for any of our missing links (top flight PG, lockup swing defender, backup banger at PF, etc.), you’d be crazy not to at least consider it if you were KP.
MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)
by The Cactus Leaguer on Feb 8, 2009 9:31 AM PST reply actions
at least you know it's weak... Rudy just isn't some ragtag backup SG
In his prime he will be a top 10 or top 15 SG. Given his diversity, and Roy’s diversity of game, there is no reason that he can’t play 30-35 minutes per game here in Portland. The fact that his game is built around his energy, and movement, he might be best playing slightly less minutes at a higher pace. Although their games are slightly different, there is a reason he’s compared a lot to Manu Ginobli’s. Rudy will be a 6th man of the year one day IMO, and a team that wants him as their starter would be disappointed. Add all this to the fact that Rudy is almost untradeable because of the KP going and recruiting him stuff, and his sheer popularity with the fan base, and it’s really not even worth discussing. Rudy will not be traded. After Roy and Oden, he’s as embedded here as a player can be.
…(ignoring your snide little “at least you know it’s weak” remark)….
Championship teams are not built around having TWO top 10-15 shooting guards. They are built by having a complete roster that can score and more importantly can shut other teams down when they need to. I love Rudy but when you have BRoy and, potentially, Webster and/or Bayless who can hold down the fort at the two, if the right deal comes along to complete the roster, you’d have to consider it.
As far as his popularity with the fan base goes, that’s nothing that a few rings won’t cure.
Will he get traded? I highly doubt it, and honestly I think they can fill in the missing holes without having to deal Rudy (at least I hope so). But untradeable? Ummm, no.
MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)
by The Cactus Leaguer on Feb 8, 2009 10:26 AM PST up reply actions
He's the third most untradable on the team right now
…(ignoring your snide little "at least you know it’s weak" remark)….
That is what you said yourself.
My (weak) case for trading Rudy
Championship teams are not built around having TWO top 10-15 shooting guards. They are built by having a complete roster
I COMPLETELY agree. COMPLETE roster. Like when Manu Ginobli comes in 6 minutes into a game and becomes immediately the most important player on the court. Having 5 great starters is less important than having that “complete” team. With Rudy we have a dynamic player at the 2 when Roy leaves the court. That is important, not to give teams a break. He also is a great player to have late in the game when Roy takes over. Having one of the best shooters in the game, that can pass, rebound and anticipate passes is something winning teams need. Once he’s more comfortable with Roy, they match stylistically. Add all this to the fact he’s making next to no money compared to his talent level and its a no-brainer.
When did I ever say that Rudy was some ragtag backup shooting guard? That’s not the point. Part of my trade scenario was the fact that although he is a valuable commodity, maybe he’s not the all-star that you are assuming he is. It’s called buy low, sell high. His international appeal and low salary only serve to make him that much more valuable of an asset (especially in a larger market which can exploit his appeal better than Portland can).
And your example of Ginobili only proves my point. San Antonio does not have two stellar shooting guards. They have Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, and a bunch of effective role players. They don’t have two marquee players at the same position.
MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)
by The Cactus Leaguer on Feb 8, 2009 10:56 AM PST up reply actions
You stated that Rudy is just some backup SG
-Solid backup shooting guards are not hard to find in the NBA.
Rudy is not just some solid backup SG. He’s already among the 20-25 best at his position, and he’s just a rookie. In his prime he’ll be top 10 or top 15, which is far from a “solid backup SG”.
And your example of Ginobili only proves my point. San Antonio does not have two stellar shooting guards. They have Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, and a bunch of effective role players. They don’t have two marquee players at the same position.
Ginobli backs up because that’s how you best spread around the wealth (talent and minutes). That is how it will work with Rudy. We have a top SG playing against other teams scrubs, or against tired starters. Either way that’s a win win for this team. With guys like him, we can focus on finding players that fit roles, because we already have the dynamic players we’ll need to compete for a Championship someday (Roy, Oden, Aldridge, Rudy).
Again, I didn’t say Rudy was a solid backup SG. But when you have Brandon Roy as your starting SG, then you don’t really need anything more than a solid backup SG (or maybe someone who could actually guard an opposing 2 or 3 off the bench).
Let’s assume that Rudy is already a top 20 SG as you claim. Wouldn’t it be better to have a top 20 PG or a top 20 SF, as opposed to being stacked at SG and weak at other positions?
As far as the Ginobili “spread the wealth” argument goes, it’s a lot easier to spread the wealth when you are dominant at more positions instead of being stacked at one position and so-so at the other. For example, I can take care of a team like Miami a lot easier if I have Brandon and a dominant point guard than with Brandon and Rudy. Brandon and DWade can offset each other while the point guard exploits his matchup.
MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)
by The Cactus Leaguer on Feb 8, 2009 1:29 PM PST up reply actions
Good points. It’s a shame no one wants to hear it though.
by Nick Van Excellent on Feb 8, 2009 10:51 PM PST up reply actions
Each of those points have exactly zero merit on THIS team.
With multiple players, Roy and Rudy especially that can play different positions and compliment virtually every type of teammate what does any of the positional stuff matter? Roy has been better at the 3 this year anyway.
And wait, aren’t you guy who was swearing up and down a few weeks ago that Sergio was a defensive whiz and the greatest thing since sliced bread?
MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)
by The Cactus Leaguer on Feb 8, 2009 11:07 AM PST up reply actions
What does that have to do with anything?
No one thinks Sergio is a defensive “whiz”, but he’s underrated on here. Bayless is a poor defender as well, and he gets a total pass on BE.
sold!
I'm afraid Chiekh Samb's kids are going to be born ducking
by GreatOden'sRaven on Feb 8, 2009 9:20 PM PST up reply actions
You thought he was a defensive whiz – superior to Blake and Bayless.
Bayless is no Rajon Rondo defensively (yet), but at least he didn’t look like a ratballer trying to guard Barrea.
MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)
by The Cactus Leaguer on Feb 8, 2009 1:32 PM PST up reply actions
Bayless looked like a ratballer against Earl Watson two nights ago
He got absolutely lit up. Sergio is just as good or poor or whatever word you want to describe it as Bayless is. Also, a quick note on JJ Barrea. He absolutely lit up Kirk Hinrich last night.
Bayless gets lit up because he doesn’t understand the intricacies of NBA defense.
Sergio gets lit up because he doesn’t have the physical skill and/or the desire to be an elite defender.
You made this argument a few weeks back and you were alone on an island. Nobody agreed with you then, none of the commentators agree with you, and nobody agrees with you now.
I didn’t see the Dallas/Chicago game but Barrea torched Sergio because Sergio was being a matador, not because Barrea was some kind of an elite point guard.
MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)
by The Cactus Leaguer on Feb 8, 2009 6:30 PM PST up reply actions
Intricacies of the game?
Bayless gets beaten flat off the dribble just as often as Sergio does. People around here hyped up Bayless because they thought athleticism translates to defensive athleticism, which it more often than not DOESN’T. Bayless is just as bad a defender as Sergio is. Sergio’s the smarter player that gambles more, creating more turnovers, but often leaving work for the big fellas, Bayless is the guy that gets beat and commits fouls so his guy doesn’t score (6.2 fouls per 48).
I don’t care that no one believes me. If people would pay attention, like to the last 2 weeks or so, they would start to realize that I’m right. Bayless is FAR from good defensively right now.
You need to stop watching the game with Rex blinders on, and start objectively looking at things. I like Bayless and think he (out of our 3 PG’s) should be our starting PG of the future, but the sheer denial a lot of fans are in about things frustrates the heck out of me. There is a lot of scapegoating of Sergio right now, and most of it is done because of peoples, as of yet, unfounded love for Bayless.
I don’t care that no one believes me. If people would pay attention, like to the last 2 weeks or so, they would start to realize that I’m right. Bayless is FAR from good defensively right now.
There’s a reason no one believes you. Interestingly enough It’s actually called reason.
by Nick Van Excellent on Feb 8, 2009 10:49 PM PST up reply actions
So you believe that Bayless has been good defensively these last 2 weeks?
If you believe that, it isn’t called reason, its called insanity. Feel free to ask around the people that actually understand the game around here. You’re not going to find very much company on the Bayless plays good defense train.
Again, who said Bayless was a defensive whiz?
MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)
by The Cactus Leaguer on Feb 8, 2009 10:58 PM PST up reply actions
Definitely not me
right now we have three below average defensive point guards. One of them is hurt. Are you keeping up with this?
Neither was I. I just enjoy how you try to twist my words around in order to win your arguments.
MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)
by The Cactus Leaguer on Feb 8, 2009 11:02 PM PST up reply actions
Feel free to ask around the people that actually understand the game around here.
Thanks coach.
Bayless makes rookie mistakes much like the sort of mistakes that Batum makes. He messes up on hand-check rules and he rotates poorly sometimes. Sergio makes different, less correctable mistakes like not fighting through screens and getting beat by his man.
Sergio has certainly been improved this year, but even Nate McMillan says Bayless is already the best defensive PG on the team. Is Nate one of those “people that actually understand the game” that you alluded to earlier?
by Nick Van Excellent on Feb 8, 2009 10:59 PM PST up reply actions
Oh yah, I forgot about Nate's stellar record for coaching defense in the NBA
Ask the knowledgeable people on this site. Bayless lately, is a turnstile. HE is getting beat as much as anyone. He commits nearly constant fouls on all types of plays. He’s more athletic. He’s also never been good at forcing turnovers.
What’s your record for coaching defense in the NBA?
by Nick Van Excellent on Feb 8, 2009 11:22 PM PST up reply actions
Really? We might as well not discuss anything anymore....
since Nate is the only person who has coached.
Also, saying you’re the best defensive PG of this bunch, is like saying you’re the best Jackson brother, or the best kind of poison to die from.
You can’t honestly tell me that you think Bayless is playing good defense out there. I really don’t believe that you even think that.
saying you’re the best defensive PG of this bunch, is like saying you’re the best Jackson brother, or the best kind of poison to die from.
That is actually another great point. Batum gets the starting nod because he is the BEST defensive wing on the team. It doesn’t mean he’s perfect by any means. I think Bayless is a lot the same way. He will get minutes because this team is starved for defense, and he looks pretty good considering the alternative.
by Nick Van Excellent on Feb 8, 2009 11:46 PM PST up reply actions
Not sure what you mean by Dallas/Chicago
but I’ll jump in here and assume you mean the Christmas day Dallas game. It should be noted, that the guy Barrea was destroying was Blake, although almost all of the damage came off our horrendous pick and roll defense in the 4th quarter of that game (with all three of Oden, LA, and Pryz involved).
as11 is right. You couldn’t call anyone even passable at D right now, but it’s ridiculous to assert that Sergio is noticeably worse than the other two based on this season.
I didn’t assert that Sergio was noticeably worse. as11 asserted that Sergio was noticeably better than Blake or Bayless, and he cherrypicked stats that made it appear so (the same stats that made it appear that Sergio was better than Chris Paul and Chauncey Billups defensively).
I’m talking about the game the other day, and specifically the play where Barrea blew right by Sergio for an easy layup while Sergio sat there looking disinterested, and then both the announcers and the coaching staff were all ripping him (Sergio) to shreds for his lackadaisical play.
MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)
by The Cactus Leaguer on Feb 8, 2009 10:48 PM PST up reply actions
After watching the Thunder event
I wondered if Rudy would “get frustrated” by Brandon’s game and decide to “leave when he becomes a FA”
My sweet wife just peeked over my shoulder
and asks The Cactus Leaguer: Are you out of your mind? – Elgin
Since when do we need to ponder to froth? - jscot
You have a lot of good points.
It’s strange to think that Rudy’s future with the Blazers depends a lot on him not becoming too valuable. If he eventually commands a top contract there is probably no chance we keep him. Dražen Petrović faced similar obstacles; good enough to be a starting shooting guard but buried behind Clyde Drexler.
Rudy has an advantage over Dražen in that the Blazers don’t have one of the top point guards in the league stealing the other guard minutes.(Terry Porter) So… as long as the Blazers continue to have mediocre talent at the one spot then Rudy will continue to see decent minutes. If Bayless breaks out and starts to play 35+ a game there could be problems.
Rudy is not going to be happy playing 15 minutes a game. A top tier starting point guard is not going to be happy playing less than 30 minutes. Plus, the Blazers are probably better defensively with Roy and Bayless on the floor as apposed to Rudy and Roy.
At any rate Rudy is probably a keeper until they decide what to do with him. His trade value is probably not going down… even though I think the disgruntled Dražen was only traded for a first round pick. Angry players tend not to have great trade value.
by Nick Van Excellent on Feb 8, 2009 10:47 PM PST up reply actions
Rudy plays 30 minutes regardless of position
he’s our 4 most talented player, and is capable of playing alongside Roy, who has thrived not only playing the point, but while playing the 3 this year. In fact while he’s played the 3 for us this year, we’re twice as good (+9.9/48) as when he plays the 2 (4.4/48). Now Rudy is better coming off the bench which makes it better for everyone involved. There is zero problem for playing time now or in the future for Roy and Rudy. They can play together, or not, at multiple positions. They both have dynamic games, that go well with virtually every player on this team.
Okay, but if I could get an equal or better player who is actually a PG or SF (not someone who swings over there for a few minutes so that minutes can be equally distributed) in a deal that includes Rudy, I’d have to consider it.
MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)
by The Cactus Leaguer on Feb 8, 2009 11:01 PM PST up reply actions
Can you really?
Howbout a guy who is 23 years old, who we don’t have to do ANY work to keep for the next 8-9 years, the first 4 of which at less than 2 million dollars per? I’d love for you to point me to the top 20 players at any particular position (PG and SF specifically) that are both available at his price on a team willing to trade them, and right at the beginning of their prime as a player.
Sure, I’ll just drop everything and do extensive research on who the top 20 PGs and SFs are… oh yeah, and they have to be 23 and available for trade (as if anyone in here knows who is actually available for trade and who isn’t).
Seriously dude, what is your problem? I said IF… that’s called a hypothetical. IF I can have a top flight player at every position (as opposed to be stacked at the two guard and have, for example, a bunch of PGs who can’t guard anybody), then I’m going to get a well balanced team.
In the playoffs, you are only as good as your weakest link. If I have Rudy and Roy out there for 35 minutes every game, I’m going to get hammered by a team that has a superior point guard or small forward who is drooling at the thought of going against someone who is playing out of position. If you can’t grasp that concept, then I don’t know what else to say except good night and Go Blazers.
MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)
by The Cactus Leaguer on Feb 8, 2009 11:16 PM PST up reply actions
Don't sweat it.
He get’s entrenched in his opinions. He’s the only guy I know who continually quotes defensive STATS like they mean something. You got to love the passion though.
I’ve been thinking the same thing about Rudy for a while. The parallels between Rudy and Dražen Petrović are a little spooky. Hopefully Rudy will be able to swing enough time between the 1,2, and 3 spots.
by Nick Van Excellent on Feb 8, 2009 11:28 PM PST up reply actions
I think the saving grace for Bayless and Rudy
is that Roy’s so incredibly versatile. He can play 1 through 3 without a hitch. If you’ve paid attention to how Roy has excelled while playing the 3 (another word for wing, of which there are two on the court), you’d see that there is no need to classify them to a specific “only” position that they can play. I think the thing that also helps Rudy’s case, is that he excels, and probably thrives coming off the bench. His Spanish coach realized this, and Nate is utilizing it. His energy whether against those backup 2’s that can’t defend him, or the starters who are tired, is enough to get him the open threes that will be his calling card. He’s an even more dynamic player when you throw in his finishing ability on alley oops.
That is true.
Drexler was a two guard and that was it. Rudy is also a lot more popular then Dražen was, making any future contract he gets easier to swallow.
by Nick Van Excellent on Feb 8, 2009 11:43 PM PST up reply actions
thats my favorite part...
4 years of 1 or 2 million dollars. Then if we want, we can let the market set his price, and just match a 4 or 5 year offer. Either way, it won’t matter much because of how much we’ll be over the cap in 4-5 years.
Yes.
No way Portland trades him now.
by Nick Van Excellent on Feb 8, 2009 11:50 PM PST up reply actions
well thats good
because while Rudy has been at his best this year defending SG’s this year, Roy has been at his best defending SF’s.
if you traded me
you wouldn’t have any good siggys
"Every time a trade proposal goes up on Blazers Edge, a big man on the Blazers takes a long distance jump shot."--- Who else?
I'd let KP trade me
If it helps land Bosh or Prince…
"Hightide was the only "Yes" vote" - parkinglotj
Joel Freeland=Stud
That probably won't help
But the good karma you’ll get from putting plastic wrap over all your toilets might help us get both of them.
I am the Simon Wiesenthal of Blazers Edge.
I only partake in legal drugs
Like NyQuil.
"Hightide was the only "Yes" vote" - parkinglotj
Joel Freeland=Stud
I did and I came out ahead
The rock heads love their little private jokes
by southern oregon on Feb 8, 2009 7:12 PM PST up reply actions
If the Blazers wanted Ime, they would have kept him
I don’t like to equal veteran experience with “really on the old side”. That’s a good one-year move for a team like Boston or Cleveland for the playoffs, not for our young team.
The cake is a lie. Trade the cake!
If that doesn't make us the favorite in the West
or at least #2, I don’t know what trade will.
NJ won’t bite for that deal though. After Harris, there’s not really a PG depth, they would be more inclined to move Carter.
Nice trade.
I just don’t think that Stoudamire will ever wear black and red as long as KP runs the show.
i don't think
KP would make that big of a roster shake up mid season, but I have to say that is a trade all sides would have to think about… nets probably get the short end of the stick on this one though
The end is in the beginning and yet I go on....
-Beckett
If that trade went down, we could throw in Travis Outlaw
Channing Frye, our first round pick in 2009, 2011, 2013 and it’d still be worth it.
keep it simple
Here are two simple trades that I like:
(plus any draft pix or cash req’d to make it happen). Or:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=45430251726849&teams=23232222&te=&cash=
(again, plus any draft pix or cash req’d to make it happen).
Why do I like them? Neither trade can change team chemistry much. We get a starting 3 out of either trade, plus an end-of-the-bencher, while putting Sergio in a position where he can get some real playing time somewhere else. He’s the one person who will have a legitimate gripe later in the season if we stand pat, since his time is likely to get squeezed by Bayless. Batum will get spot minutes at the three, and continue to contribute — I don’t think he’ll be unhappy, given how much time he’s had this season already. Webster will be back with the team late, and will also just see spot minutes from this point forward. With another starting caliber player, we can rest Brandon and LaMarcus more (get them down to 35MPG) and spread the time around to others. Both wing players (Jefferson/Salmons) are good perimeter defenders and very capable offensive contributors. We would have to sign a 3rd string PG from the D-league or Europe, to fill out the roster. Our team would improve, we would have a happy locker room, and we could do our roster consolidation over the summer, at our leisure.
Also, I like these trades, because I think the other teams would be more-or-less motivated to make it happen. Word is out that both players are available. Both teams have throwaway seasons at this point, and saving money by dumping salary will be attractive to them. These moves make us even deeper, with much more experience in our rotation. I’d be pretty happy with either of them.
can't
click the link.. (blocked for me)
but we could always move rudy to point in the game sometime.. and we got the FINLAND hopefully comin over next year.. or so..
"Awesome! Totally awesome! All right, Hamilton!"
in plain text
Jefferson/Malik Allen for RLEC/Frye/Rodriguez
or
Salmons/Kenny Thomas for RLEC/Rodriguez
by BrailleTaser on Feb 8, 2009 12:14 PM PST up reply actions
That might take Sergio out of the number crunch, but our 2 and 3 positions get the ultimate numbers crunch.
Roy, Rudy, Jefferson/Salmons, Martell, Travis, Batum
Take 12 minutes from the PF position, and then try to split up the 108 total minutes (SG – 48, SF – 48, PF – 12) between those 6 players.
Here
Don’t forget the stretches of smallball, and periods with Rudy and Roy in the backcourt. Here is one rough way you allocate minutes. Batum and Webs (as detailed in the original post) get spot minutes:
Center: Greg – 20 minutes; Przy – 20 minutes; LA – 8 minutes
PF: LA – 27 minutes; Outlaw – 21 minutes
SF: Jeff/Salmons – 30 minutes; Outlaw – 8 minutes; Batum/Webs – 10 minutes
SG: Roy – 27 minutes; Rudy 21 minutes
PG: Blake – 25 minutes; Bayless 15 minutes; Roy 8 minutes
Total time:
Roy: 35 minutes
Aldridge: 35 minutes
Jeff/Salmons: 30 minutes
Outlaw: 29 minutes
Blake: 25 minutes
Rudy: 21 minutes
Greg, Przy: 20 minutes each
Bayless: 15 minutes
Batum/Webster – spot time, about 10 minutes a nite
So, this is basically a 9 man rotation, with some spot time to a 10th person at the 3. None of this figures in possible injuries or whatever, that having a deep team can surely help with. Take a strong team to the playoffs this year, figure out the logjams in the summer. I don’t see either Batum or Webs causing any locker room issues to get playing time.
by BrailleTaser on Feb 8, 2009 12:34 PM PST up reply actions
Yuck in regards to
Oden, Przy, Batum, Webster, Rudy….
Honestly, its not even an upgrade IMO. Jefferson is an overrated bum, who is shooting 42% from the floor this year. That’s not good from any position. Salmons is better, but leaves a lot to be desired defensively. If you just want him for the shot, Martell is going to be just fine in the future anyway.
Current MPG for the year
Oden: 22.8; Przy: 22.0; Batum: 17.7; Webs: 0.0; Rudy: 26.4
doesn’t seem like much of a diff to me, and the above are just estimates. a third of a season (plus playoffs) at that rate is not bad. The key disagreement seems to be as to whether these would be an upgrade. And I do disagree — either one of these guys would be a massive upgrade to the starting unit, and not just to sit in the corner and hit the three. But I can see your perspective — I like the team as it stands, too. Still, I do these trades, they would make the team much stronger IMO.
These moves seem to be adding for the saking of adding
as opposed to adding what we actually need. Neither of these guys really fit the description of what you’d ideally want out of the position. Why waste valuable pieces on them, when you could possibly do a trade that adds the right players at different positions.
well
I guess we have different ideas of what is needed at the 3 position on this team, and what these guys would bring. Fair enough, we’ll see how it plays out.
Does
Anybody think that KURT THOMAS kinda looks like oden in some way???
say older brother..
we should pick up kurt, he would do wonders in a blazer uni.
"Awesome! Totally awesome! All right, Hamilton!"
He is exactly the type of player we need
He is an older veteran who seems well respected, has played on some good teams, is known for his defensive game but he is also very much part of the SAS. Playing 18+ minutes against Boston right now!
by QuebecBlzrFan on Feb 8, 2009 12:23 PM PST up reply actions
Spurs are winning and Thomas is playing in the final 30 seconds
Other players which would probably help as a valuable veteran presence, as much off the floor as on it, are James Posey, Shane Batier, and Bell. Probably not really available or cost effective but the type of solid vets who could help settle this team down and help the coaches to instill a winning attitude.
Why
I am no expert on him but he has a few rings and takes his defensive responsibilities seriously. I think he is the type of player who could have a huge impact on this young team. If he has crazy flaws then some other player who has those qualities… there aren’t a ton of them available.
by QuebecBlzrFan on Feb 8, 2009 12:56 PM PST up reply actions
in what way? cuz he kills the teams he plays against?
hes better than what we got.
Posey >>> Outlaw
I'm afraid Chiekh Samb's kids are going to be born ducking
by GreatOden'sRaven on Feb 8, 2009 9:18 PM PST up reply actions
I want:
Gerald Wallace
Kirk Hinrich
David Lee
Andre Iguodala
Andre Miller
Quentin Richardson
Amare Stoudamire
Shaq
Aaron Brooks
Rasheed Wallace (Will never happen, but that would be sweet)
I’d be willing to give up Travis, Sergio, Raef, Channing, Ike for sure.
Possibly be willing to give up Batum, Oden, Blake.
David Lee and Gerald Wallace are my most coveted picks. I still wouldn’t be surprised to see Lee squeak his way in there.
Life is hilarious.
give up.. batum/oden??
seems like you want a championship NOW.
i’ll take the Journey/time and ENJOY THE CHAMPIONSHIP’S*
"Awesome! Totally awesome! All right, Hamilton!"
you want Sheed, and would trade Oden
you should probably go ahead and ban yourself.
"I love the Spurs!" -Hitler
make it happen...
DAVE/BEN? you got the power to do this right?
"Awesome! Totally awesome! All right, Hamilton!"
I would so give up Oden/Batum
For Amare Stoudamire. Batum is going to be a decent player like a Bowen or Finley but doesn’t deserve the man-crush status he has right now. Oden is obviously going to be really good but I’m starting to wonder how we’re handling his training and if he’s going to reach full potential in our system.
Amare Stoudamire needs no special focus training wise and doesn’t get into weird, emotional cry-baby ruts like Oden does.
Life is hilarious.
You must not watch the Suns much...
Why do you think the Suns are putting a 25-year-old (or whatever) four time All-Star, former first-team All NBA guy on the trading block?
Two reasons: 1) Money, 2) his weird, emotional cry-baby rut (spanning the entire season).
I guess Oden’s are more “weird” because they’re related to playing well and winning. Amare’s are more rational because they relate to the number of shots/points he’s getting and, indirectly, the size of his next paycheck.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
They could acquire Amare
just so everyone would know what a locker room freak he is, and then get rid of him next year. – Elgin
Since when do we need to ponder to froth? - jscot
Two that I like
Pull off both these trades and our roster looks like this:
Hinrich/Bayless
Roy/Fernandez/Sefalosha
Salmons/Webster/Batum
Aldridge/Gooden
Oden/Pryzbilla
Better defensively, better offensively.
"I'm polymerized tree sap and you're an inorganic adhesive, so whatever verbal projectile you launch in my direction is reflected off of me, returns to its original projectory and adheres to you." - Sheldon
If your trade makes us better both defensively and offensively,
which I really doubt, looking at the players we’d be getting (as a Cleveland fan, whatever bonehead defense you think Outlaw plays, Gooden will do worse, but without the offensive burst, and Hinrich is a worse offensive player than Blake, and overrated as a defender, at least on this site), why would the other teams, who would presumably get worse offensively and defensively, agree to it?
Travis Outlaw is an alien, but in a good way.
Awesome Graphic was provided by CIC, because he felt like he should be hazed.
by Clevelander among roses on Feb 9, 2009 1:24 AM PST up reply actions
Just because one team gets better offensively and defensively doesn't mean vice versa for the other teams involved
It’s about the fit- what positions are lacking talent and what players aren’t contributing enough to keep on. A player could be close to worthless on one team but improve the team he is traded to
I see the incentive for all teams involved, I love the consolidation of Portland talent and would celebrate this trade
#5
Trade the cake. That whole baking strategy is not working as it should
The cake is a lie. Trade the cake!
You Cant trade for Lee
Lee is a free agent this summer and you will lose to highest bidder. so basically you would trade a player away to new york and then lee could leave and you have nothing to show for it….You better off to see if he will sign with the blazers this summer to see if he even wants to play here…But you better have some cap space to do it….so you must create cap space how to create cap space is to trade for a player now that there contract runs out this summer NOT LEE …someone we don’t want but is overpaid then cut them loose and take the money sign a better player via LEE……SO FIND A OVERPAID FREE AGENT THIS SUMMER….HMMMMMMMMM
He's restricted this summer
if we wanted to keep him, then we can match any deal and he can’t do anything about it.
not to mention
you never trade for a player in his final year of a contract without working out a deal ahead of the trade. if you cant work it out, you dont trade for him. this line of reasoning is mute in almost all trades, superstars excluded. Sometimes they get traded but know they have the upper hand and the team NEEDS them for this one year
I'm afraid Chiekh Samb's kids are going to be born ducking
by GreatOden'sRaven on Feb 8, 2009 9:16 PM PST up reply actions
Players KP likes that I know of
I heard since this last summer
D Harris New Jersey Nice Point guard for this team Brandon Roy type can take players off the dribble create his own shot and good floor vision smart player
L Dang Chicago Strong SF who can score when needed in low post not a ball hog works well with star players not a three point shooter but has knocked down a few. Hustles smart player
M Conley Memphis Young talent who needs playing time to develop pure point guard good court vision needs experience.
Lee New York Low value for great talent but contracts runs out this year….Will command a big contract from a team. Can play 3 positions sf pf c Rebounds very well shoots mid shot well he is one of those smart players that understands the game of basketball.
KP loves smart players that understand the game…..Players that know when to set plays and how to set play…players that can read other players well….They don’t have to be superstars per say….but know what it takes to be a winner…..they just need the tools around them….Kobe Labron Duncan Parker Garnette Peirce Allen….are all very smart players they understand how too push fall pass lob cut…thats what portland is looking for and needs…..NOT YOUTH….ROY IS READY TO WIN NOW….Trade some of the youngs for smart vets….NOT OLD VETS….SMART 23 to 28 year old Vets…thanks for letting me vent….
Not a huge Marion fan
Personality and priority-wise, but I’d do that trade, if for nothing other than “Asset Acquisition”.
Plus he’s a SERIOUS upgrade at the 3 for the Playoffs. And he’s playing for a contract, so we’ll get some good effort from him.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Feb 8, 2009 7:26 PM PST up reply actions
wow
you do realize they would have no reason to do that.
miami needs a Center, or a legit pg. … legit, they have 2/3 not top flight pg’s already, why take another one and pf which they also have multiple of. only way we get marion is prizbilla
How bout this?
Its a two part trade:
Part 1
Part 2
We become a championship contender right off the bat. Keep all our starters. Might have to throw in a draft pick (2nd round) or cash
I'm afraid Chiekh Samb's kids are going to be born ducking
by GreatOden'sRaven on Feb 8, 2009 9:06 PM PST reply actions
I approve
of the first trade. That would make us a very impressive team, but it is not possible. We would have to give up more, probably Blake instead of Rodriguez.
The second trade is not one that I would approve, and yes, I’m on the Rudy bandwagon. It doesn’t improve the team in my opinion. It just swaps backups.
the 2nd part isnt really a trade in itself
but crittendon has a trade restriction that he cant be traded with any other players. That trade is heavily in favor of Washington to help make up for them getting shafted on the first one. So you do them at the same time in different trades.
I'm afraid Chiekh Samb's kids are going to be born ducking
by GreatOden'sRaven on Feb 8, 2009 9:14 PM PST up reply actions
the 2nd trade is part of the first trade. I guess I should have explained that
I thought thats what i did above, but apparently not.
RLEC, Trout, Sergio and Rudy
Butler, Thomas, Crittendon
I'm afraid Chiekh Samb's kids are going to be born ducking
by GreatOden'sRaven on Feb 8, 2009 9:25 PM PST up reply actions
curious.. why?
I'm afraid Chiekh Samb's kids are going to be born ducking
by GreatOden'sRaven on Feb 8, 2009 9:36 PM PST up reply actions
You're trading 8-9 years of having Rudy Fernandez
a top 10-20 SG during those years, for 3 years of Caron Butler, at the end of his career. This team is a forward thinking team, and I doubt anyone would trade this year and next years benefits at the expense of years 3 through 8. It just doesn’t make any sense. Also, Crit isn’t any good.
Agreed
That’s not enough for Rudy, much less the other assets being given away.
MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)
by The Cactus Leaguer on Feb 8, 2009 10:57 PM PST up reply actions
well..
i think we overvalue rudy a bit here
It was "mascot night" at the Rose Garden, which apparently translates to a dozen inflatable versions of various NBA mascots being chased around the arena by Portland's "Blaze", which is some breed of rapist dog. -PostingandToasting
by GreatOden'sRaven on Feb 9, 2009 10:42 AM PST up reply actions
Caron isnt that old
Rudy is a backup.
It was "mascot night" at the Rose Garden, which apparently translates to a dozen inflatable versions of various NBA mascots being chased around the arena by Portland's "Blaze", which is some breed of rapist dog. -PostingandToasting
by GreatOden'sRaven on Feb 9, 2009 10:42 AM PST up reply actions
also crittendon is a 3rd string PG, but they would want Rudy in that deal
and i dont see anyone else that would be worth it
It was "mascot night" at the Rose Garden, which apparently translates to a dozen inflatable versions of various NBA mascots being chased around the arena by Portland's "Blaze", which is some breed of rapist dog. -PostingandToasting
by GreatOden'sRaven on Feb 9, 2009 10:42 AM PST up reply actions
I was just saying
I like the idea of Salmons cheap
by southern oregon on Feb 8, 2009 10:11 PM PST reply actions
Salmons has never been on a winning team
I’d much rather have Martell and Nic learning how to play than an average veteran who scores on a bad team.
You could say the same about Martell
When do you think he wiil=average veteran?
by southern oregon on Feb 8, 2009 10:29 PM PST up reply actions
WE ONLY NEED A VETERAN POINT OR KILLER 3 MAN
The only two positions we need any kind of help at are the point guard and the 3. If the blazers could move a combinaiton of some of these guys: Sergio, Travis Outlaw, Raef Lafrentz’s expiring contract, draft pick? ….they could end up scoring a ridiculous 3 like a rudy gay or something. AMARE STOUDEMIRE is the wrong player for us, and while its always is exciting to know you might be able to get a player like that, he doesn’t fit our team really.
Also, Pritchard is no idiot, and he’s not going to make a trade just to make it. We’re 4th in the West right now with 4 rookies in our rotation. Thats not too shabby. If we could get an amazing player thanks to Raef’s contract then we should, but otherwise we should just keep getting better!
by rip_city_swagger on Feb 9, 2009 12:05 AM PST reply actions
If the Suns don't trade Amare to the Bulls/Heat/Pistons, we'll get Shaq
for RLEC, Sergio, Joel, and Channing.
The Suns are trading Shaq or Amare in order to get under the luxury tax next year. Their owner is cheap, and our economy is a disaster. It is going to happen.
Trading Shaq to the Blazers for RLEC and spare parts the only way (without giving up Amare) that the Suns get under the luxury tax next year. And the Suns, unless they are crazy, should keep Amare. As a bonus, the Suns get a good backup PG and a defensive center to play alongside Amare — 2 things which they’ve needed forever.
Shaq gives Oden the ultimate role model on how to be a dominant, championship center. If you think that Oden is more likely to be a championship center from playing alongside Shaq for 2 years, then the Blazers have to make this trade. If you think that Shaq’s swagger might rub off even a little bit on Greg, then you have to make this trade.
Everyone's first thought is "NOT SHAQ"
But this is a business, very little of it has to do with rivals and personal grudges, especially in the front offices. If KP talks to Shaq and believes Oden will benefit from having Shaq here for a couple years, I say why the hell not.
Yes, Shaq in a Blazer jersey would be weird….for about three seconds
Good trade
#5
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