Oden VS Durant Poll (sorry, someone had to)
by mark twain on Feb 7, 2009 8:01 AM PST
84 comments
Take off the rose colored glasses and answer this question honestly. Knowing what we now know, seeing what we've seen, and given our current lineup, if you could go back in time would you really take Oden over Durant? I'm on the fence about this now. There is something about the passion and fire that Durant played with that made me very, very, very envious. His fluidity, quickness and size leave him virtually unguardable. I don't know guys, Odens lack of consistency at this point is starting to get worrisome, but what really bugs me is what was talked about before the draft; does his passion for the game measure up to Durants? I don't know, I know this is a serious loss hangover and I don't know if I'd be writing this had we won no matter how Ophone played. I do know this. A starting lineup of Pryz, LMA, Durant, Roy, and Blake seems like it would do pretty damn well.
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Durant is going to be a beast
We see it, we understand it. They told us that before the draft Durant is going to be a star in the NBA. Oden is underwhelming as everyone likes to say nowadays, he looks lost at times, unmotivated at times, really out of shape at times. I still take a potentially dominant center over a 3 even a superstar in the making type 3. Ask me this question at the end or even the middle of next season and my answer might be different. Durant looked mediocre at best last season and did not really turn it on till the last 20 games of the year. Durant has had an entire offseason to digest and work on the nba game. Durant was able to see the nba process and find out what worked and where he needed to improve. Greg needs to do the same thing this offseason, I bet he does not show up at camp at 290pnds. I bet he works on his agility and mechanics a whole lot this offseason.
I try to help with everything," Fernandez said. "If the coach says go rebound, I go rebound. I work for the team.
""If I'm playing this game to get media and attention, I shouldn't be here," Aldridge said. "I'm here to play basketball, and do what I can do to help this team win."
by Dragonage on Feb 7, 2009 8:12 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Right now, I'd have to say Durant
Ask me again in 3 years and hopefully my answer will be different.
Right now, I’m still recovering from what he did to us in the first half last night.
by JasonT on Feb 7, 2009 8:23 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
YEP
My sentiments exactly, couldn’t agree with you more
myspace.com/marktwainindians
by mark twain on Feb 7, 2009 8:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Good big men are hard to find, especially centers who have to shoulder alot of dirty work. Oden shouldn’t be judged so early but I like Durant better. He’s one of those freak of nature types whose build makes him an offensive juggernaut. The Thunder have a bright future, though I wish they were still the Sonics. Could you imagine the intense Northwestern rivalry that could have been?
by Fundefined on Feb 7, 2009 8:46 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Oden has been fine until...
this road trip. He had been awful. He has not been in foul trouble, he just hasn’t showed up on the trip and has yet to play (to my knoledge) in the fourth quarter of the trip
bayless leaves over my dead body
by thomasikehara on Feb 7, 2009 9:02 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
durant would be a rich mans martell webster
in the blazers system.
i could almost guarantee he would get 10-15 points per game on probably about 10-12 shots per game.
the seattle-OKC situation suited him perfectly, he got to be the man in his rookie year, and got to learn the NBA game while getting good shots and good minutes.
which is what we should be doing with greg oden. btw i voted for oden
by Yawnie on Feb 7, 2009 9:07 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I have wondered what Oden's #'s would have looked like had he been drafted there.
My favorite teams are the Blazers and any team that is playing the Lakers.
by OCBlazerFan1 on Feb 7, 2009 1:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Durant's too ideal of a first option
To be in our team. We don’t need scorers (although that was kinda questionable last night). We need defenders.
by Eventine on Feb 7, 2009 9:11 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Maybe with KD's offense on the Blazers
… Broy and LMA would keep some energy for the defensive end. Also KP would have selected more defensively skilled players in the draft and with trades.
by QuebecBlzrFan on Feb 7, 2009 9:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I like his enthousiasm... that would be nice on the starting unit
I still think you have to pick Oden at the time of the draft and his long term potential but personally as of right now I would swap the two of them and take my chances. Even if all the moves after GO was selected were made with him in mind I think at this point there is enough doubt about how he will turn out, and enough indication that KD has an NBA effective game, to make the swap.
Of course that can’t happen so I just hope that GO will continue to grow to his potential and that the team will develop an effective way of using him.
As far as how KD would be used with the Blazers… I suspect he would lead the team in shots taken at around 18 and then Roy and LMA would follow at slightly less. KD is too much of an offensive force not to the No 1 option. Of course his game might have developed slower with us. I bet the other players would have a lot more freedom on offense with him on the floor!
by QuebecBlzrFan on Feb 7, 2009 9:12 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Durant
Imagine he was on our team. He wouldn’t be putting up 30 points, he would be standing in the corner watching our isolation-based offense and getting 10 shots a game on penetration kickouts.
Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.
by douglast on Feb 7, 2009 9:25 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I laughed.....
People don’t seem to understand Durant is put in the best possible situation right now to succeed. No pressure to win. A up-tempo team that gets lots of easy baskets. If Durant were asked to play Blazers slow down half-court ball, he would be struggling with his FG percentage. It would be exclusively isolations.
The cake is a lie. Do not bake it.
by blzrfan on Feb 7, 2009 10:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What's troubling is that I'm not sure I'd vote for Oden
over Kevin Love, Marc Gasol, or Brook Lopez at this point.
Oden just looks kind of uncoordinated and seems to have very poor anticipation. I expected him to be poor on offense, and I’m really not too worried about that. I am alarmed and shocked at how poor he is defensively.
I’m not sure how much of that can be attributed to physical condition, recovery from surgery and the year off. I sure hope a lot of it, because right now, my pretty low bar of hoping that he’s one day as good as Alonzo or Dikembe is looking like a bad joke.
by howlingfantods on Feb 7, 2009 10:00 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
come on man
Oden’s been better than Gasol and Lopez already, at a fraction of his former athleticism. We don’t know for sure whether or not he’ll get that athleticism back, but there is hope.
You are more down on Oden than is justified, in my opinion. I think Oden is being badly misused on defense, almost as badly as Durant was used in his rookie year.
Hey, I voted for Durant also. He’s a sure thing and Oden is far from it. I still think Oden is going to be really good.
Boomshakalaka
by jksnake99 on Feb 7, 2009 11:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
disagree completely about gasol and lopez
Oden looks to be a better rebounder, by a little bit, over Gasol and Lopez. Defensively, they are much much better so far than Oden.
Misused…. It’s so hard to tell how much our defensive problems is coaching or the staff, but all I know is that Oden when he jumps on pick and rolls looks just as clueless and slow on reaction time now as he did to start the season. Maybe more so.
The thing that’s really troubling is that the way he’s a bad defender has absolutely nothing to do with athleticism. Closing out hard to prevent passing lanes on the pick and roll, or anticipating the pass to the roller and swinging back to cut off the lane — this stuff is something that you don’t have to be able to leap tall buildings to be able to do, yknow? But it looks like Greg either can’t change directions quickly enough, or sees everything too slowly, or has poor recognition. Maybe those things improve. I sure hope they do. But this stuff is supposed to be pretty basic and every other big who’s getting major minutes knows what they’re doing here.
When’s the last time you watched a game and thought to yourself afterwards, “Greg really came through defensively for us in that game?” Isn’t it troubling that you probably can’t answer that question, when he was supposed to be a defense-first center, Bill Russell incarnate, and all that jazz? Not even one signature game, I can’t even say he’s even had a signature defensive play period.
by howlingfantods on Feb 7, 2009 12:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oden's been a better rebounder than those guys by A LOT
19.2 rebound rate vs. 16.1 for Lopez and 14.2 for Gasol. That’s a big difference.
Also, Oden has had plenty of signature defensive plays. The opening night block on Bynum. The swats of Amare and Jermaine. The open court steal against Milwaukee.
Oden is being forced to switch so many pick and rolls that he doesn’t know what to do when the guard actually fights through a pick for once. Whether that’s Oden’s fault, Nate’s fault or the guards’ fault, I’m not sure. However, I thought we agreed perimeter D wasn’t how you judge bigs on D?
Boomshakalaka
by jksnake99 on Feb 7, 2009 12:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
keep in mind that Oden gets the
rebounding-next-to-the-pf-who-doesn’t-like-to-rebound inflation.
yeah, perimeter d — I don’t care that Oden gets destroyed playing one on one against a guard on an island on the perimeter. But being able to recover to protect the basket on a pick and roll? That counts.
by howlingfantods on Feb 7, 2009 12:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and Gasol and Lopez play next to rebound machines?
Oden’s defense is a problem, no question. I put it more on the coach, you put it more on him. I think we both agree there’s enough defensive blame to go around. I think we agree on what the problems are, but I’m a little more optimistic about how fixable they are.
Boomshakalaka
by jksnake99 on Feb 7, 2009 12:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hah, I knew you'd object to that.
I just stuck that in there since I couldn’t resist getting a little dig into LMA, who is miraculously avoiding all the finger pointing.
by howlingfantods on Feb 7, 2009 1:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not from me
LMA has GOT to rebound and defend the post better. His helpside defense when he puts effort into it is amazing. His perimeter D is exceptional for a PF but he gets destroyed in the post by powerful PF’s.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 7, 2009 6:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and i dunno, can you have a "signature defensive play" in a game as disastrous
as the opening nighter against the lakers? I don’t even remember that block, but then again, I did try to forget that entire game by drowning my sorrows the rest of that night.
by howlingfantods on Feb 7, 2009 12:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
TNT hadn't even switched over to the Blazer game yet
but it was a great, great block. Whether or not it counts as “signature” is up to you.
Boomshakalaka
by jksnake99 on Feb 7, 2009 12:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
These aren't signature defensive plays.
Those are just highlights from three losses, one of them an embarrassing blowout.
Signature plays are plays that preserve a victory or win a game or turns the game around. Like Havlicek steals the ball or Bird steals the inbound, not nice but non-meaningful highlights from losses.
Those three plays didn’t even lead to loss of possession for the opposing teams.
by howlingfantods on Feb 8, 2009 2:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You've lost your marbles
fantods. Really Kevin Love? Marc Gasol?
OK now with Brook Lopez you might have a point as I’m convinced he will be in the tier of Centers just below Howard/Yao and whomever is up there with them. Thing is I’m convinced Oden will be there and has the potential to be the BEST center in this league. It’s only potential right now and he really couldn’t tie Dwight’s shoes currently but he has the physical tools. He needs experience, a system that relies on him more, confidence and conditioning.
When he has the above things Oden will dominate I guarantee it. The question is not WILL Oden be any good but HOW good will Oden be?
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 7, 2009 6:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oden is already better than Durant according to WP48
The folks at Wages of Wins has every player ranked by their wins produced at mid-season.
While Durant ranks higher based on total wins (52nd vs 102th). His wins produced per 48 minutes is lower than Oden’s (.125 vs. .152)
Take it for what it’s worth. Rebounding centers can help win more games than volume shooting small forwards unless they bring a lot more than scoring to the table.
by tucsonhanny on Feb 7, 2009 10:11 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
OK, so you're a wages of win guy.
So I suppose you’ll be outraged that Brandon Roy’s in the allstar game over Przybilla and start calling for LMA to be benched or traded immediately? And don’t forget the infamous chart showing that Rodman contributed to more wins than Jordan in 96.
by howlingfantods on Feb 7, 2009 10:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
hmmm... Durant is closing the gap
A couple weeks ago a Celtics fan visited our fair site and put up the same poll. Oden won in a landslide.
Now Durant appears to be catching up fast. Hmmm…
Let’s monitor this race with regular polls. I think the next “Oden or Durant” poll should be taken right after All-Star weekend. The Rookie-Sophomore game will be our next chance to see them play against each other. If no one else puts up a poll then I will.
If it’s any consolation, I bet there are less than five GMs in the Association who would have had the balls to draft Durant at # 1, given all the hype surrounding Oden and the truism that championship teams are built around dominant centers. heck, come to think of it, I bet there are only a couple GMs who would have pulled the trigger and drafted Durant over Oden. Very few GMs would have been willing to endure the public excoriation that would inevitably have resulted.
Darn thing is, though, I think Sam Presti might have been one of those very few brass balled GMs. I wish KP would have had the cojones to do it, but then again, the decision to take Oden might ultimately have been Paul Allen’s.
Truth comes as a conqueror
only to those who have lost the art
of receiving it as a friend.
Rabindranath Tagore
by dwarfgoper on Feb 7, 2009 10:27 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Do KP and Greg know you hate them?
The cake is a lie. Trade the cake!
by Norsktroll on Feb 7, 2009 10:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He was kind of public about it a couple of years ago IIRC.
Famous website and all.
by howlingfantods on Feb 7, 2009 11:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Here is another way of phrasig the question:
WOULD YOU TRADE ODEN STRAIGHT UP FOR DURANT?
Let’s be honest, folks. Who would answer that question with a “No”? My answer is “Yes! In a heartbeat!” Anyone who says no, anyone who would refuse to make that deal if Sam Presti offered it, has got to be smoking crack with Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt (after choosing a night with them instead of a PTB championship).
And anyone who says no to that deal has some serious explaining to do.
Truth comes as a conqueror
only to those who have lost the art
of receiving it as a friend.
Rabindranath Tagore
by dwarfgoper on Feb 7, 2009 11:01 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
My answer is
no. Oden is a better fit for the team and will be a bigger factor in the NBA in 3 years then Durant. His number may never be better but he will be a 25 and 15 with 2.5 block talent in 3 years while Durant may be a 30 point 12 rebound 6 assist 2 steal guy. Both will be wonderful it’s a false dichotomy. The real question is who do you want during the title run that starts in 2 years. Oden or Durant for me it’s unquestionably Oden. If he ends up being mentally weak for the rest of his career or injury prone I would obviously be wrong. I don’t think either of those will happen and I don’t see Durant and Roy being on the same team, they are both Alpha’s Oden is not and he compliment Roy perfectly.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 7, 2009 6:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No explanation
Durant would not get the looks on this Portland team he gets on that Thunder team, there is zero chance I trade Oden for Durant, way too early to pass judgement on Gregs game. Portland can trade for an all-star sf without giving up any of our core group.
My question back is would you take Durant or Howard today to finish out the season.
I try to help with everything," Fernandez said. "If the coach says go rebound, I go rebound. I work for the team.
""If I'm playing this game to get media and attention, I shouldn't be here," Aldridge said. "I'm here to play basketball, and do what I can do to help this team win."
by Dragonage on Feb 7, 2009 11:16 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
good followup question
I would take Howard. I suppose you would view my answer as validating your point about Oden being a better choice than Durant because Oden is supposedly a once-in-a-generation dominant center and those are very rare.
But Oden is not Howard. Howard is the real deal. Durant is the real deal. Oden is completely unproven. And Oden has exhibited some very troubling indications of having the heart of a mouse rather than a lion.
Truth comes as a conqueror
only to those who have lost the art
of receiving it as a friend.
Rabindranath Tagore
by dwarfgoper on Feb 7, 2009 11:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I just asked the question because there are fans who really enjoy offensive players and dont really care about paint production, which is cool or there are fans that like the nasty style of play that good post players can provide,,,
I try to help with everything," Fernandez said. "If the coach says go rebound, I go rebound. I work for the team.
""If I'm playing this game to get media and attention, I shouldn't be here," Aldridge said. "I'm here to play basketball, and do what I can do to help this team win."
by Dragonage on Feb 7, 2009 11:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
TO > KD
Durant sucks, I wasn’t impressed last night. He’ll be out of the league in 3 years. Oden on the other hand is half way through his first season. How was Crapant playing at this time last year? Some guy on this blog always freaks out when people compare players at different ages. I think ages don’t matter as much as stages of their careers. It doesn’t matter because Kevin Crapant sucks anyhow.
It's not offensive until someone reads it.
by Dragline on Feb 7, 2009 11:39 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Lets Sum it up....
Durant will put up some numbers (T-mac)
ODEN will put up some RINGS (Russell)
:)
Damn it feels good to be a BLAZA
"Awesome! Totally awesome! All right, Hamilton!"
by B-ROYalty on Feb 7, 2009 11:50 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Anyone who picked Durant has a low basketball IQ
If someone picked Durant, then I don’t trust their basketball knowledge.
Check the Basketball Jones at 12:20, they pick Oden too. Any fan with even a passing knowledge of NBA basketball knows you go with the big man. At this point 41 people at Blazers Ege don’t know the %^^& from a hoop.
It's not offensive until someone reads it.
by Dragline on Feb 7, 2009 11:52 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Do you think Travis would pick Oden or Durant?
Probably Oden, since with Durant he would be out of a job with the Blazers. Dude is smart.
The cake is a lie. Trade the cake!
by Norsktroll on Feb 7, 2009 11:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Outlaw would say that decision is out of his hands
It's not offensive until someone reads it.
by Dragline on Feb 7, 2009 11:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Any fan with even a passing knowledge of NBA basketball knows you go with the big man.
So you’d have picked Darko over LeBron?
by howlingfantods on Feb 7, 2009 12:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Did anybody compare Darko with the top big men in the league ever?
I mean he was overhyped, but not that hyped.
The cake is a lie. Trade the cake!
by Norsktroll on Feb 7, 2009 12:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
they said Oden would be good
they did not say they would pick Oden over Durant.
Big difference.
The whole “SFs and SGs can’t win titles” logic is absurd. Larry Bird proved it. MJ proved it. Dwayne Wade proved it.
Boomshakalaka
by jksnake99 on Feb 7, 2009 12:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wade
had Shaq in his prime! Bird is a legend as is MJ.
MVP type centers that won titles with second tier wing support greatly out number then MVP caliber wing players without a top shelf big man. If you take MJ out (and you should it’s Michael freaking Jordan!) the wing players winning without excellent centers/pf’s really plummets.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 7, 2009 6:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention
Bird had McHale and Parish both excellent (not MVP level) post players for their time.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 7, 2009 6:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Shaq was in his prime in 06?
Alert the presses! All the Hall Of Fame talk is totally wrong! Shaq was never a dominant 30 and 13 guy, his prime season was apparently his 20 and 9 season!
by howlingfantods on Feb 8, 2009 2:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He was still
the most dominant center in the league. That championship was as much refs whistles and Sterns hatred of Cuban as anything Wade did. D. Wade is incredibly talented no doubt but he is not an MJ type wing that can take his team to the promised land without a reliable big next to him. He hasn’t even come close to repeating, that tells me alot.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 8, 2009 2:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with MJ
Bird had Parrish and McHale that was the dominant frontline of that generation as a whole, there was Jabbar in LA and Hakeem in Houston but that celtics frontline was fantastic.
Wade has not done much winning without Shaq, there certainly not a title contender right now.
I try to help with everything," Fernandez said. "If the coach says go rebound, I go rebound. I work for the team.
""If I'm playing this game to get media and attention, I shouldn't be here," Aldridge said. "I'm here to play basketball, and do what I can do to help this team win."
by Dragonage on Feb 7, 2009 12:21 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
if you think Shaq won Miami that title, you are crazy
Shaq was way, way less than 100% and was a modest factor at best. That was Wade’s team.
Boomshakalaka
by jksnake99 on Feb 7, 2009 12:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Then why
hasn’t he returned to the ECF let alone the Finals?
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 7, 2009 6:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, his right arm was ripped out of its socket.
I’m no medical expert, but i believe having an arm attached to your shoulder helps a lot in this game of balls in baskets.
by howlingfantods on Feb 8, 2009 2:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Too early to see if KP was right or wrong.
Durant this time last year, sucked.
And even last night—the best player on the floor played for our team (Brandon). It’s just that quite a few of his mates didn’t bother to show up.
by EngineerScotty on Feb 7, 2009 1:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
You know, I have been fairly unimpressed with that Obama guy so far since he took office. What has he done for me lately? Are we playing better? Maybe Hillary or McCain would have been the better choice
I already put my thoughts on the issue e.g. here, I think both will be good players and the Blazers got what they wanted and needed. http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/2/5/751201/oden-vs-durant-i#12027281
The cake is a lie. Trade the cake!
by Norsktroll on Feb 7, 2009 2:08 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Greg Oden shot attempts rookie year: 5.7
Kevin Durant shot attempts rookie year: 17.1
Greg Oden minutes per game rookie year: 22.8
Kevin Durant minutes per game rookie year: 34.6
How many of those Oden attempts are offensive rebound put backs?
Give Greg the damn ball.
Karma
by Sabonis4Ever on Feb 7, 2009 2:46 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Part of that
is Greg (the larger part), part of it is the refs calling him incredibly tight, and part of it is that the coaching staff and “perimeter defenders” on this team other then Batum (I’m almost crying I’m laughing so hard). Our perimiter defense is soft like yielding dough. Paper mache also comes to mind when I think of the way our guards keep penetrators out of the paint. If I see one more switch on the pick and roll I will cry I really will.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 7, 2009 6:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Let us not forget
Przybilla fouled out CONSTANTLY last year and he had similar guys defending the perimeter. Joel is having a career year and should be applauded but even he has had some serious foul trouble this year (coming off the bench!) due to our glorious pick and roll and general perimeter defense.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 7, 2009 6:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah. Joel fouled out CONSTANTLY last year.
He fouled out once. March 25 against the wizards.
Dude, he only had 7 games where he got 5 fouls and the once he fouled out. Can you check facts every once in a while please?
by howlingfantods on Feb 8, 2009 2:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In fact, you just destroyed the greg defense.
All season, oden partisans have been arguing that all the defensive problems are the fault of the perimeter guys – “it’s all sergio” or “it’s all roy” or whatever. “oden is always in foul trouble because the guards can’t stay in front of their guys.”
But Thrilla did just fine staying out of foul trouble last year. So if Thrill could stay out of foul trouble, why can’t Greg?
by howlingfantods on Feb 8, 2009 3:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh..I dunno....
Microfracture? Rookie?
Karma
by Sabonis4Ever on Feb 8, 2009 1:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, so you're conceding that it *is* Oden's fault
that he can’t stay out of foul trouble, and it’s for surgery/rookie reasons?
If you’re conceding that, then you’re conceding that it’s not all sergio’s fault or all roy’s fault the way oden partisans like to claim? Since Thrilla can stay on the court and Oden can’t?
by howlingfantods on Feb 8, 2009 2:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
he fouled out the
same way Oden fouled out. Which is to say he was benched by Nate for foul problems. Przybilla played just one more minute per game then oden and got 0.8 less fouls per game. Mind you Przybilla was our only legitimate center last year and yet he only got one more then Oden who has joel backing him up. How many games has Oden fouled out of this year? 4 Games thus far with the season 60% over. He is on pace to get around 6 foul outs this year. This is his rookie season and so some mistakes are to be expected. I assume you want to trade Oden, and think KP is an idiot for taking Oden is that right? I just want to hear a strong position from you. You are excellent on the attack regardless of who you are attacking (Nate, Oden, KP or PA) but lets see you stake a position here. A clear position such as KP is an idiot for not taking Durant and Oden is a bust. That’s what you are saying right?
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 8, 2009 2:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This should have read.
Mind you Przybilla was our only legitimate center last year and yet he only got one more then Oden who has joel backing him up.
He only got one more minute then Oden.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 8, 2009 2:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you watch the games last year?
Thrilla played limited minutes because Nate always preferred the pure offense lineup, not because of foul trouble, get outta here. This isn’t exactly ancient history, it’s just one year ago, cmon man.
by howlingfantods on Feb 8, 2009 2:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well dude
I guess you are always right. I watched about 99% of the games and nate did unto Joel what he does unto Greg. You get fouls sit on the bench and watch LMA and Trout bolster our front line.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 8, 2009 2:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Joel's mpg in the 7 games he had foul trouble (5 or 6 fouls):
23 mpg.
His mpg in all the other games where he had no foul trouble:
23 mpg.
See where I’m going with this?
Nate didn’t base his rotations with Joel on how he was fouling; he based it entirely on how much he wanted to have shooting at every position.
by howlingfantods on Feb 8, 2009 2:44 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Well we may
have some agreement about Nate’s use of big men then eg benching Oden and Przybilla to play small ball. My other question is do you really think it’s wingmen who win you rings? I mean how do you explain Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, Walton, Kareem, Wilt, Russel? I think they were the superstars on their teems with the exception of Kareem and Magic.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 8, 2009 2:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's a good point by the way
about Joel’s minutes not varying a very good point. Nate attackers are starting to get my attention. I will tell you this though. If Nate goes bye bye and is replaced I bet you see Oden set up in the post and pick and rolls defended differently.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 8, 2009 2:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Gonna say it?
Greg is garbage and KP is a moron who buckled under pressure from PA?
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 8, 2009 2:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just curious
cause you find nits and pick but rarely take a position other then harsh smiting of Nate’s Defensive understand KP’s drafting, Greg’s ability to play baskeball. I want to see you take a position I really do. I get your implicit statements but i’d like to see you stake it out.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 8, 2009 2:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I've stated my position pretty damn clearly over the last couple of years.
Yes, I wanted us to draft Durant. Yes, I continue to think it was a mistake to draft Oden instead. No, I don’t consider Oden a bust yet, but I do have much lower expectations of him than others around here do. I hope he’ll be as good as Alonzo or Dikembe, but truly expect him to be around as good as Bogut or Okafor – not bad, like 5th or 6th best center in the league at his peak.
Lately, I worry that he won’t even reach that very low expectation I have for him.
And lastly, it pisses me off that people keep repeating “centers win titles” despite all the historical evidence to the contrary because that’s exactly the thinking that led to our making what I think is going to turn out to be a pretty major draft error.
by howlingfantods on Feb 8, 2009 2:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You really think
Wing players win Championships? I’m stunned!
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 8, 2009 2:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you for stating your position
I strongly disagree and I think we see things a bit different about wings vs. big men. I mean I think that’s crystal clear. Oden has fouled out 4 times which is about 10% of games too high but also I am not suprised given his Rookieness, MF, missing a year and porous guard defense. He needs to get better I don’t think anyone thinks he has arrived but I think you are shooting way way low on expectations.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 8, 2009 2:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Uh yes. Michael Jordan
Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas, Chauncey/Rip, and Dwyane Wade would all like to say “hi.”
And within the next couple of years, LeBron and/or Kobe would like to do the same.
by howlingfantods on Feb 8, 2009 2:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So then
maybe both great centers and great wings win you rings. See my post above. It sounds like an equal distribution between great Centers and great wings for rings. So then it comes down to which position is the more rare and do you think Durant will be MJ good? I don’t think Durant will be LeBron or MJ good personally and think he benefits from being on the team he is on. I also worry about his Physique. I also think Oden will be one of the best big men in the game (not all time but current time). With Roy on our team it seems Oden was the logical choice unless you were looking to repackage Roy or Durant for another player.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 8, 2009 2:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree
Sabonis totally agree. Oden will be a better defender and all around player if he gets jazzed up by being fed the ball in the post. I know this because that has happened virtually every game we have done it.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 7, 2009 6:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Kevin Durant averages more shots in his rookie year than Greg Oden's career high.
Karma
by Sabonis4Ever on Feb 7, 2009 8:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
That doesn't matter
Sabonis, neither does the MF surgery or the missed year, or our horrid perimeter defense (we had Martell last year and James Jones who had savy vet play). It’s all on Oden and that Moron KP!
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 8, 2009 2:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey Fantods
I just wanted to say, I realize I’ve been wrong about some of my facts such as Joel’s play vs. Oden. To be honest I didn’t go and check. I was relying off of memory from last year where we would routinely get killed as soon as he went to the bench for foul trouble. You and I disagree about Oden and Durant’s ceilings and as to the relative importance of a good center vs a good wing. That being said you made lots of excellent points and I want to agree to disagree with you about the importance of the Post vs. Perimeter. How does that sound? Sorry if I got heated above, that’s my bad.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 8, 2009 3:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
it's all good, was a fun conversation.
And actually I liked that you brought up the thrilla/oden comparison – I hadn’t even thought of that before, in terms of all this hand-wringing about our perimeter defenders.
by howlingfantods on Feb 8, 2009 3:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I still think it's
an experience/confidence/conditioning/use thing with Oden.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 8, 2009 4:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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