Turn Jerryd loose to attack from the get-go
by two4larue on Feb 4, 2009 8:27 PM PST
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PrintNate was just interviewed saying the team can't afford to keep putting themselves in a hole by getting off to these slow starts
Hello!?
Start Bayless, and "problem" solved.
Bring Sergio off the bench and reunite the Spanish Air-mada. Wasn't it Sergio's job to come in and "change the tempo" with the white unit, before Blake went down? Starting Rodriguez and having him set-up the offense (like Steve) doesn't seem to fit his strengths, and his "defense" on the opposing PG is helping the other team get rolling that much easier, in the opening minutes.
Make the change, Nate. Bayless and Roy are the future starting backcourt. Let's get them as much experience playing together as possible while Blake is on the mend.
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I think it's time to go with the rook and shop the Serge...
I will say that Sergio has really proved what he can do this year. He’ll be good somewhere.
The cilantro in your tapioca pudding since 2007.™
He's just not a good fit for our system, even the second unit
I just see Blake and Bayless splitting the time going forward…..bayless is too good of a talent to sit on the bench
I wouldn't conclude that Sergio will be good somewhere,
as there is nothing to base this on. I think the jury is still out on him.
That only showed it could go either way
Bobby Sura, Luke Ridnour about as likely as Terry/Payton/Stockton
Nate doesn't make mind-numbingly easy decisions like this
until a week or two weeks after the fact. Its like he needs to be thoroughly convinced of the completely and totally obvious.
lol
This is so lame. Nate spends 14 hours a day with the Blazers. I’m pretty sure he knows what’s going on.
by Nick Van Excellent on Feb 4, 2009 9:18 PM PST up reply actions
He may know whats going on...
but that doesn’t explain why people on this board make decisions about players weeks in advance of Nate, only to be proven right when he finally does make the switch.
Not arguing the decision here, but I've seen
a few people here make decisions ahead of Nate that would have been disasters. Personally, I’d give Bayless a few more games to see whether he comes back down or not. If not, then,….. time to roll.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
This happens
regularly, but then pretty much any possibility is also discussed on here, so the chances of the idea popping up on bedge first is likely in that respect. I agree that Nate is slow to move on things that are obvious but you can’t argue with the record, and at least he does it…………………
……….eventually.
by The Natural ala Mode on Feb 5, 2009 5:11 PM PST up reply actions
I'm pro Blazers
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out which player fits better on which unit. Long term I want Bayless starting and Sergio on the 2nd unit with Rudy, as I always have.
Yeah
And besides, I don’t want rocket scientists doing anything with our team except maybe working with the shooting coach on optimal trajectories.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
The mills of Nate's mind grind slow,
but they grind exceedingly in the right direction.
by Gargen on Feb 4, 2009 10:51 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm cool with that
There’s something to be said for not making rash decisions, even if they happen to be the “right” decision. I’d rather have Jerryd starting when there’s a consensus amongst the players that Jerryd should start. Until then, Sergio still has a few more chances to figure it out and make it work. Losing a close game to Dallas in Dallas doesn’t make me freak out.
"It all depends on where his growth will come and we think his growth will come within us" -- Kevin Pritchard on Jerryd Bayless
This is a sensitive political issue. If Bayless starts, that means logically that Sergio is the 3rd PG, and there's a whole lotta petulance to be expected if that happens...
I think the team needs 3 PGs due to the threat of injuries, but I really think Sergio is gonna have to be moved in the name of Peace, Love, and Understanding…
The cilantro in your tapioca pudding since 2007.™
agreed
i know nate likes to start the game going to our post players, but maybe we need to change things up a bit. i wanna see jerryd against some starters even if he doesn’t get the full starters minutes.
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
first possesion last night ---roy perimeter jumper
"..[Travis Outlaw] could jump, grab a rafter, eat a sandwich, and then dunk.."
tmundal 12/30/07
UGH
why oh WHY don’t we pound it into Oden for the first 5 posessions every game maybe mix it up with some LMA in the post. When they start doubling Oden/LMA THEN we can work on the perimeter and swing to the wing for penetration but first FIRST pound it into the freaking paint like a team that wants to win a ring does!!!!
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 5, 2009 12:20 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't agree with those who wanna lose Sergio,
but this plan makes a bunch of sense.
Sergio may still get the longer minutes coming in second and at least we’ll have some fire in our starting unit.
I don’t want to reconnect the Spanish because they tend to go tunnel vision when together. That plus Outlaw makes it like we have three different teams (Spanish, Outlaw, and the other two) on the court at those times.
This doesn’t work as well as we imagine though because of Bayless getting called for fouls and because early turnovers against another team’s starters will also create early deficits.
I still say do it.
".. is gumby an alien?"
Just another problem that would be solved by trading Outlaw.
Jerryd Bayless has two emotions: Kill and Win.
"I want to put points on your face."
-Rudy to Pau Gasol
NorrisHopper30: "someone injure pubert jones"
by rockingharder on Feb 4, 2009 9:14 PM PST up reply actions
travis' improvements
i dunno…to me travis has been giving us a lot less to complain about these days. he is doing a much better job about playing within the flow of the offense unless it is called upon for him to do his thing in the 4th quarter. he no longer is the black hole he was last year. he hasn’t really made that many blunders in the game that scream low bbiq anymore either. not only that he is penetrating and looking to score in the paint rather than take fadeaway jumpers. he may not be playing stellar defense but i like that he is making the effort to rebound every night now. if he keeps it up i’d be comfortable with him starting sometime down the road.
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Feb 4, 2009 9:24 PM PST up reply actions
He has been giving us less to complain about.
That’s good. But I don’t think he can go much higher; he’s pretty much hit his ceiling. We need a lockdown defender at the 3 (or at least someone adequate), and though his BBIQ has seemed better recently, it is still a huge weakness.
I think Batum and Webster will be a great tandem for years to come, and I don’t think Trout’s trade value is getting any higher than it is right now. When Martell is ready to go, Travis should be… well… ready to go.
Jerryd Bayless has two emotions: Kill and Win.
"I want to put points on your face."
-Rudy to Pau Gasol
NorrisHopper30: "someone injure pubert jones"
by rockingharder on Feb 4, 2009 9:49 PM PST up reply actions
trade values and ceilings
Travis’ trade value might be at its peak, but its hard to peg a ceiling on anyone. Blake and Pryz are both showing us that they are capable of improving when many have thought they have reached their ceiling. If you want to argue at you don’t think Trout is a good fit…then you have a point, but its kinda unfair to say he has hit his ceiling when he is still adding new dimensions to his game.
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Feb 4, 2009 10:02 PM PST up reply actions
Fair enough.
I personally believe that Trout is very close to his ceiling. However, that’s a pretty subjective assessment. You make a good point that it’s pretty tough to peg a ceiling on any player.
Perhaps you’re right; I should have argued that he isn’t a good fit for this team. Because I think that’s true as well.
Jerryd Bayless has two emotions: Kill and Win.
"I want to put points on your face."
-Rudy to Pau Gasol
NorrisHopper30: "someone injure pubert jones"
by rockingharder on Feb 5, 2009 12:01 AM PST up reply actions
BBIQ
is simply basketball instincts and good habits. Travis has only played real basketball for six years. Jerryd has probably played real basketball with real coaching for longer than Travis.
Travis is still improving precisely because his basketball instincts and habits are improving. Specifics:
1. Travis has done a better job rebounding for us this year. He is still not a great rebounder, but has improved this year. Until Travis became a pro, he never had to work at rebounding or learn how to really do it. He is obviously still learning. This is one specific area where Travis is still improving, and still obviously has more room for improvement. Thus, he is likely not at his ceiling as far as rebounding is concerned. He has the physical tools to be very good at this, and is still moving towards that.
2. 3 point shooting. Travis has taken a good step forward in this area. However, how much more can the guy improve? Unlike rebounding, where his hops show he could be very good, there is nothing here to say Travis should definitely improve further. We might expect a marginal improvement. He might become better, but it is optimistic to assume he will.
3. Going to the hoop. Anyone who watches Travis knows he could be devastating taking the ball to the hoop. We’re seeing a little more of this, which shows that he is working on improving this area. There is no way he is at his ceiling here. Will he reach that ceiling? Don’t know, but he’s going in the right direction.
4. Passing. This was arguably the weakest part of Travis’ game. He will never be a great passer, but his improvement this year is substantive. There is no reason this can’t improve further, and since he is obviously working on it, there is no reason to assume it won’t. His ceiling may not be high in this area, but he certainly hasn’t hit it, and again, is improving.
5. Defense. Travis can play superb defense, and then lapse horribly. As far as physical tools, there is no doubt that he is not anywhere near his ceiling. Does he have the desire and the mental concentration to be a good defender? I would argue that much of good defense is good defensive habits, and that we see some improvement in this, too.
Travis’ obvious strength is scoring. So many of the other areas of his game are so weak that it is very questionable to say he has hit his ceiling. A pathetic defender can become a mediocre defender (if he has the physical ability) through consistent effort. Likewise with poor passers and rebounders. It is safe to assume that a poor defender, passer, or rebounder can at least upgrade to average unless A) they simply don’t have the physical tools to do the job or B) they have stopped improving, indicating that they don’t care about working on that aspect of their game.
Neither A nor B applies to Travis. Therefore, I would say he is not even close to his ceiling, because if he could become consistently even average in his rebounding and defending, he would be much more valuable to us. There is no reason to assume he won’t accomplish that, at least.
A Travis Outlaw who becomes a consistently average defender and rebounder, and who learns to regularly drive the ball to the hoop, will be a very valuable player on any team, if not as a starter, as a threat to come in off the bench and destroy you on any given night.
I do agree that his trade value is probably very high right now. But I wonder if Nic’s emergence puts Martell on the trading block rather than Travis. It’s valuable to have a totally different look coming in off the bench.
If Travis improves his rebounding, we could go with him as backup PF, and keep all of them. But we definitely need a better rebounder at backup PF than the Travis we have right now. I don’t think anyone doubts that Travis has the physical skills to be an adequate rebounder at PF — it’s the technique and the desire that are lacking. An entire summer spent working on rebounding positioning, etc, would be invaluable.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
by jscot on Feb 5, 2009 3:02 AM PST up reply actions 5 recs
As usual, we agree.
Travis’ recent play has changed my opinion. His shot selection has been noticeably improved: lots more going to the hole, lots less off-balance, fade-away, mid-range jumpers. He has also been grabbing more offensive boards. If he can figure out how to box out, and how to not loose his man every third possession, he can become the kind of “sixth man” we have always hoped he would become.
I’m still not sure how Travis fits into the big picture. Depends on what happens when Martell returns. He is clearly a very valuable asset.
Different players develop at different rates. Travis is definitely a bit of a late bloomer, and continues to improve in his sixth year.
by upper left corner on Feb 5, 2009 6:55 AM PST up reply actions
Travis is that guy off the bench
All good playoff teams have an almost unstoppable scorer off the bench.
It's not offensive until someone reads it.
very well stated
Outlaw, Webster, and Batum all have their gifts. Outlaw is particularly valuable because he has been doing well at 4, also.
I will be sorry to see any of them go if any of them are traded. Whoever we trade for needs to be a very special player. Not a player whose best time is behind him (Jefferson) and not a player who is prone to get concussions (G. Wallace).
Another thing that makes me not want to trade them is that they all seem to get along nicely. They are not at each other’s throats. Sure, there is competition, but there is also respect and friendship between them. At least that’s what I am perceiving. So if we trade any of them for some guy with freaky skills, but everyone on the team hates them, it’s a net loss. – Elgin
Since when do we need to ponder to froth? - jscot
one thing to think about
Last year T.O. had his trade value the highest towards the end of the season when he started to figure it out. It seems to be a pattern where he picks up his intensity and smarts towards the end of the year. By this reasoning I think trading him should ONLY occur just prior to the trade deadline. If we want to move Trav, this is the time to do it. However I agree with you Philthy, he has been helping more than hurting lately. Could he take it to another level in the playoffs? That sure would be nice!
by The Natural ala Mode on Feb 5, 2009 5:16 PM PST up reply actions
good observation
we’ve heard that travis has come into camp out of shape for a few seasons now. maybe its cuz he doesn’t have the off season work ethic our other players do that takes him so long to get into his groove every year?
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Feb 5, 2009 6:04 PM PST up reply actions
And who will play backup PF
I still think Travis will get 10-12 mins a game as PF (subbing for LA) just like he’s doing right now.
He’s playing a lot, because some time is as a SF, and some is a PF.
My Depth Chart:
PG: Blake/Bayless (not sure who yet); Sergio
SG: Roy; Rudy
SF: Batum; Martell (when he’s better); Travis
PF: Aldridge; Travis; any of Frye, Diogu, or Shavlik
C: Oden; Pryz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj8DgWnbVng&feature=bz303
MVP *** MVP *** MVP
I've never scored more than 38 ..... not even in Little League.
My argument is that we need a bruiser.
A trade of Trout for a Maxsap type would do the trick for me.
Jerryd Bayless has two emotions: Kill and Win.
"I want to put points on your face."
-Rudy to Pau Gasol
NorrisHopper30: "someone injure pubert jones"
by rockingharder on Feb 5, 2009 12:00 AM PST up reply actions
+1
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Feb 5, 2009 12:06 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah
Why trade for that kind of player when they always come along in the draft.
I’d love to have Travis improve his rebounding and get 10-15 mpg backing up LMA on most nights, with the nights when we need a bruiser bring in a guy in his first three years who doesn’t expect a lot of minutes, because he just isn’t that good, but will leave it all out on the floor when he does come in.
So most nights, you use Travis at backup PF, but if you need it, you’ve got this thug sitting there waiting to knock anybody around who dares to get in his way when there’s a rebound to be had.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
I lean toward a wily, vet type bruiser
Rather than another young’in, I would prefer a wily vet, who knows how to play very physical defense w/o getting called for too many fouls.
by upper left corner on Feb 5, 2009 7:01 AM PST up reply actions
As long as he doesn't expect a lot of minutes
Doesn’t matter much to me.
Late first round or second round rookies are cheap, which means if they pan out and become good, they are also attractive trading assets, or potentially a key rotation player down the road.
I think you want one rookie every year to develop, even if he sits a lot for his first two years.
But the vet has his value, too. Especially if he’s never had a championship, and all he wants to do is get one, no matter what he has to do to accomplish it.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Meh
I think we have plenty of rookies/young guys. We need to draw the line here and not waste our time developing more talent. We’re not going to get an NBA ready top 10 pick again and anyone lower tends to take time to get going.
Yeah, that's what I said
We should be drafting one long-term project a year to keep cheap role players feeding through. Two years on the bench or in Idaho, two years starting to contribute, then re-signed if he works out.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Ye of little faith!
We’re going to get all kinds of NBA-ready top 10 picks. We have KP manning our draft board.
Jerryd Bayless has two emotions: Kill and Win.
"I want to put points on your face."
-Rudy to Pau Gasol
NorrisHopper30: "someone injure pubert jones"
by rockingharder on Feb 5, 2009 3:45 PM PST up reply actions
I agree
it is unlikely K.P. will use his “vet” money for a bruiser who will play behind LMA.
by The Natural ala Mode on Feb 5, 2009 5:18 PM PST up reply actions
Hasborough is a bruiser around 18yo college Kids....at the pro level he is slow and undersized
"..[Travis Outlaw] could jump, grab a rafter, eat a sandwich, and then dunk.."
tmundal 12/30/07
Why would you draft Hasborough
When we need to bring Freeland over this year for contractural reasons?
by southern oregon on Feb 5, 2009 11:24 AM PST up reply actions
By Euro standards
Freeland is an above average defender,rebounder and a hustle monster by any standard
by southern oregon on Feb 5, 2009 11:37 AM PST up reply actions
Euro's are so backwards, they don't even know what a mile is. They're out of it, man.
It's not offensive until someone reads it.
TiH?
Is that you?
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Can't believe
I’ve been answering some of your stuff without checking links.
Perhaps one of my stupidest moments….
Is there a story behind this miracle?
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
lol
i was thinking the same thing…it took me awhile to come to that conclusion tho. i should have clicked on the profile.
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Feb 6, 2009 8:49 PM PST up reply actions
trade him and sergio
would be amazing….we would probably never lose another game.
"Great Oden's raven!" - Ron Burgandy
You either have a plan
to get Lebron/Wade/Cp3 or just an idea for how to waste incredible talent. Most likely it’s the latter. Bayless is the future of this team. The spurs would not have the rings they are collecting without Tony Parker.
I don’t even like TP, I think he’s a pansy. He cries whenever he takes a hit. However a PG that is fast enough to get past any defender means they can collapse the lane drawing fouls, points in the paint, and wide open three point shots. These are the most effective forms of offense on a per possession basis.
Bayless is also the best defending PG on the team, and is only 20. Playoff basketball demands good defense on the opposing PG to disrupt the flow of the other team. There is no reason to move bayless if it is not part of a package to acquire an MVP candidate. Even then, it is highly questionable. (I would not trade him for Kobe, because of age)
I’m a fan of seeing sergio develop, but bayless shows better work ethic, and more desire on the court. He cared about improving his defense, and fits better with what the coach wants out of the position.
TP plays no defense
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Feb 5, 2009 8:45 AM PST up reply actions
I never watched Terry Porters game but you make him sound crappy. Ben won't like you talking that way about TP.
Bayless is a one trick pony. Sergio is a matador and Bayless is the bull. The matador can learn new tricks, the bull cannot. Bayless has the highest trade value on the team and we need to cash that in for a real point guard while his value is high.
It's not offensive until someone reads it.
TP - tony parker
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Feb 5, 2009 9:45 AM PST up reply actions
I think he changed his name just to fool people all over again.
Karma
by Sabonis4Ever on Feb 5, 2009 12:18 PM PST up reply actions
OMG
best humorous comment on Bedge today!
Bayless is a one trick pony. Sergio is a matador and Bayless is the bull. The matador can learn new tricks, the bull cannot. Bayless has the highest trade value on the team and we need to cash that in for a real point guard while his value is high.
You must be a professional comedian! Or well…the alternative is better left unsaid!
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
So, you're saying Sergio has a higher bball IQ than Jerryd?
Jerryd Bayless has two emotions: Kill and Win.
"I want to put points on your face."
-Rudy to Pau Gasol
NorrisHopper30: "someone injure pubert jones"
by rockingharder on Feb 5, 2009 3:47 PM PST up reply actions
I believe everyone has the same BBIQ
I’m mostly playing devils advocate because the Bayless fans are the Jonas Brothers fans of the NBA. Bayless is a hot young boy band and his fans act like throngs of screaming prepubescent girls in the front row of his concert.
It's not offensive until someone reads it.
i don't think we've seen enough of JBay
in tough situations to say he has a high or low bbiq. so far his mistakes have been from being inexperienced and pressing but its not fair to say he has a low bbiq since the sample size is too small.
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Feb 5, 2009 10:21 PM PST up reply actions
No one cares about the actual facts of the situation
Bayless gets a pass on the defensive end because of “potential”. When he’s playing physical he’s constantly getting nailed with fouls. When people talk about how quick he is they constantly neglect the fact he’s still getting beaten on the defensive end. When Deron Williams abused him as bad as any player ever has, people gave him a pass.
Meanwhile Sergio is not only statistically our best defender individually, he’s our best defender on the team level as well. He’s only giving up a PER of 14, and we’re 5 points better per 100 possessions on the defensive end when he’s out there, yet all anyone has to say about him defensively is that he sucks. People underrate the steals he’s able to come up with, cutting into other teams possessions. He’s consistently the best player on the team at getting steals (2.2 stls/48) and creating breaks.
Per 48 minutes stats suuuuuuuucckkkkkkkk!!!
They should be banned and never be mentioned again. Thank you. I needed that. Even Per 36 minutes is an extrapolation for players only playing backup minutes.
Sergio could be one of the better defenders on the team if he gets more time (preferably with Joel behind him), but for all I care, Blake and Roy are better at defending and stealing than Sergio. If only because if he doubled the number of minutes he played to their level, he would also tire more and not be able to ball hawk as much as when he plays spot minutes.
Yesterday Sergio was losing sight of Barea who ran circles around him. Riddle me how that is worthy of the label “our best defender”. While the worst thing I saw from Bayless was getting switched on Dirk because our big man stopped at the pick and said “oh well, let Bayless try to do that”. At least he once got an offensive foul out of it before the half, and actually created some scoring threat on the other end of the court.
You may hate per minute stats
But Bayless/Sergio scored at the same rate, albeit Bayless on better shooting.
I didn't say our best defender
I said he gets the most steals per minute (you have to admit he has a nose for the ball (both rebounding and steals)). Also… per minute stats are all the same, whether they be per 20, per 23, per 7, or per 180494. Its just easier to tell the differences in players if you extrapolate out further magnify players differences. There are 48 minutes in a game, its a nice number to work with.
Understood
I just don’t like the misleading aspects of it. If only this and that player doubled his minutes he would be so great. Per 48, guys like Leandro Barbosa or Mareese Speights among the rookies look much more dangerous than they really are (not even accounting for weird things like Jerome James “perfect score”). If they actually played 30-35 minutes instead of 15-20, their numbers would be much more mediocre and realistic.
I understand what you're trying to say
but its actually been the opposite with Sergio. He’s been better per minute, when he’s getting more minutes not less. I think someone pointed out a study on this with Millsap as the example. Players that get more minutes usually increase their production per minute not decrease it. No one is ever going to say we should be playing guys more than 35-40 minutes per game, that’s just common sense.
the same can be said of greg and jerryd
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Feb 5, 2009 11:32 AM PST up reply actions
Agreed
which is why I have a hard time with people saying per minute stats don’t matter or per minute stats suck. Like it or not, per minute stats matter. They’re probably the second most telling stat to per possession stats. But for most of us that don’t have access to all possible information, per minute stats are much more easily derived.
Hmmm, time to flush whatever set of "statistics" you're working with...
Meanwhile Sergio is not only statistically our best defender individually, he’s our best defender on the team level as well.
The cilantro in your tapioca pudding since 2007.™
Pass the ball to Greg
I don’t know what the question was, but that is my answer.
Karma
by Sabonis4Ever on Feb 4, 2009 8:45 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
I agree, and no one loves Bayless like I do.
I understand Nate’s hesitancy though. For real…starting THREE rookies? Greg, Nicolas, AND Bayless?
That’s unheard of for high-caliber teams. I think things are going swimmingly right now, and Nate just doesn’t want to upset the ship. Wait until Blake gets back and then we’ll see what happens.
Want more aggressiveness? Try less Baylesslessness.
upps
that wasn’t really meant to be a reply.
My reply to you was suppose to be:
Isn’t your answer for everything give it to the big man? Whether it be Greg, Sabonis, or Chris Dudley, I’m pretty sure you just want to pound it into the post.
Want more aggressiveness? Try less Baylesslessness.
Agreed
Championships are won in the paint. Even if the dagger comes from deep the game is won in the paint.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
with the exception of the bulls
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Feb 4, 2009 9:11 PM PST up reply actions
agreed
sabas + adelmans blazers = no MJ era (1st 3 peat).
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Feb 4, 2009 9:26 PM PST up reply actions
yeah
everyone kinda agrees that had Sabonis played in his prime with Drexler and them it would’ve been at least one championship for us.
Sabas in his prime > Shaq.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj8DgWnbVng&feature=bz303
MVP *** MVP *** MVP
I've never scored more than 38 ..... not even in Little League.
Umm not quite
No way Sabas prime > Shaq prime. He’d a been good enough for us to beat up those pesky Pistons and Bulls though.
Yep, better than Shaq
Think inside and outside. More mobility and speed. Like Dirk with toughness, thickness and 4 more inches.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
...
Dirk with more toughness, thickness, and 4 inches still can’t stop Shaq in his prime.
Don’t get me wrong, Sabonis would have been a rival to Ewing/Hakeem/Robinson. However, in terms of raw domination, Shaq was ahead of all 3 of them as much as I hate to say it.
Again, even with a player that was the caliber of one of those 3, Portland wins at least 2-3 titles.
au contraire
the bulls used to start their games by going in to bill cartwright.
they didnt start winning championships until they traded charles oakley to ny for cartwright (and used horace grant at pf).
ignacio
And
Jordan certainly didn’t I don’t know…collapse the defense and kick out to a wide open Kerr or say draw a foul or two. I mean Jordan was purely a perimeter player right? Right?
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
i assume by paint
he meant post presence.
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Feb 5, 2009 6:06 PM PST up reply actions
that was S4E was reffering to at least.
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Feb 5, 2009 6:07 PM PST up reply actions
I agree dude
It’s pretty hard to win without a big man. I think that’s part of the reason the Lakers, everyone’s sure-fire pick to win, lost to the C’s. KG > Charmin’ soft Pau Gasol.
Pistons had at least some post presence, Spurs, Lakers with Shaq, etc. etc.
Bulls can’t really be in the conversation fairly. MJ just blows everyone and everything out of the water.
Want more aggressiveness? Try less Baylesslessness.
sorta like current day Cavs
they’re not bad, but don’t have any exceptional big man.
Lebron is just a 7-footer and a 6-footer at the same time in a 6-8 frame.
literally he’s got the perfect basketball body. bit more length than MJ, but just as quick. rediculous.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj8DgWnbVng&feature=bz303
MVP *** MVP *** MVP
I've never scored more than 38 ..... not even in Little League.
If lebron ever wants to take the greatest player of all time title
He will sign with portland in 2010 for a smaller contract. Greatness comes in championships. Jordan led his teams to 6. Despite lebrons incredible performances, he needs ring to enter the discussion of legends. If he signed with Portland, he’d have all the weapons that championship teams look for. Most championship teams get there without all the weapons, just utilizing the ones they do have. The celtics locked down in the finals because Bynum was out, and pau is completely over rated. No big man locking down the paint and getting to the rim, no ring. Since MJ retired, the common denominator in championships are Duncan and Shaq. However in each instance, they had an explosive slasher that helped collapse the defense. (Parker/kobe/wade)
For the cavs to win, Lebron will have to play at the level of Jordan for the post season. Even then, his supporting cast is not that great.
For Lebron to be MJ
He needs to win titles WITHOUT an awesome big man. He can’t do that in Portland.
i've always felt that
Kobe has stronger aspirations to being the best (or the next MJ) than Lebron. I dunno…to me Kobe’s only motivation is to win championships on his own…while Lebron wants to be a global icon (bball accomplishments, fame, and amassing a huge fortune).
I’m not sure how accurate my opinion is, but I was totally in the same boat when it was the topic of the day on either the MSP or Canzano (not that their opinion means all that much).
Who knows…maybe near the tail end of Lebron’s career he will change his tune if he doesn’t have any rings.
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Feb 6, 2009 9:02 PM PST up reply actions
+1
Get Greg in the game early. When he scores about 4-6 points early on he gets into the flow of the game much better. Helps him stay out of foul trouble and makes it easier for our shooters later in the game. I hate games like tonight where Nate seems to forget he has Greg.
YES!
I have noticed this too. I also desperately want to see Bayless and Oden together early. Almost as much as I want Bayless to get time beside Roy, actually maybe even more then that…
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
Has it frustrated anybody else that there have been zero Sergio and Oden pick and rolls?
And rarely ever a (insert name here) and Oden pick and roll? I think Oden could shine there but he seems planted firmly on the low block hoping for an entry pass…
RUDY > MJ
Portland rarely Pick and rolls period
Except when Zilla decides to do it every now and then. There is a reason the guy is shooting 70%. Guess Nate thinks it’s his jump shot.
Very frusterated
This is one of the biggest things missing from our offense. Maybe they can’t practice it in the gym because no one knows how to defend it? Where are those stockton to malone tapes. Stockton was an all time great, however this one particular facet, running an isolated pick and roll, is not difficult. They did it very well, and theres no reason our PGs can not learn to copy that one piece of his game. We have a big man to dump it to.
This brings up two issues though. First off (and I’m not a sergio homer), noone but sergio uses the pic effectively. They give way too much room going around it instead of cutting fast and accelerating. Sergio does it well, and that’s what would get him into the lane. Except for prizbilla, noone on the team sets a good pic. Oden/LA don’t lock into place quick enough and close enough. If channing wants playing time, he just needs to spend 4 hours a day practicing the pic.
Big Sergio supporter saying....
This seems like an obvious decision. Roy is not getting it going early with Sergio at the point. I like a lot of the things Sergio does, but unfortunately, they seem to get in the way of Roy’s game. Bummer for me, I love some Sergio, but Roy and him just aren’t meshing. I love what the Sergio was doing with the 2nd unit, I still think he is a better option than Bayless at that spot when Blake gets back. But until Blake is back in the lineup, all of Bayless’s minutes should be when Roy is in the game…
RUDY > MJ
i'm for the change as well
but…to be fair roy usually doesnt make his presence known in the first quarter over the past few years (with blake starting). As long as we can use Bayless effectively while getting Greg and LMA their touches, I’m all for it. Nate said he went back and forth in regards to deciding who to start at first when Blake went out…why isn’t he switching things up now that we are starting the games so poorly?
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Feb 4, 2009 9:29 PM PST up reply actions
I agree (mostly)
I think I’d like to see Bayless continue to get good court time when Blake gets back, which will cut into both Sergio and Steve’s minutes. Other than that, I’m totally with you, Sergio and Roy don’t seem to work well together. Unfortunately for Sergio (or any Blazer PG for that matter), if his game doesn’t complement Roy’s, that means it’s either 2nd unit or another city.
Jerryd Bayless = Marlo Stanfield
- Early stage Marlo at this point, but Bayless is the emotionless killer new to the game. He will take over, and there will be casualties – it’s just a matter of time.
Sorry but I think the point is something different
It has nothing or very little to do with the offense. Where we are really struggling (as much as a 30-18 team can struggle) is the defensive end of the court. We allow other teams to get to a fast start shooting the ball and get comfortable within there own skin (so to speak) and never get them uncomfortable.
We can’t just continue to have better offense then the other team. We need to make them work to get to there spots, have a hand in there face when they shoot and then control the defensive boards. Until we start doing that, we will always have slow starts. Nothing to do with the offense.
This is all about defense. Nothing else as much as we may want it to be about point guards, etc….
"I saw him in the face" Sergio's quote on the latest alley-oop to Rudy.
by blazermaniac32 on Feb 4, 2009 9:50 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
?
whats qft?
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Feb 4, 2009 9:52 PM PST up reply actions
thx
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Feb 4, 2009 9:54 PM PST up reply actions
But usually it's accompanied by a quote :)
by pualo on Feb 4, 2009 11:24 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for explaining this.
I will never use it in my entire life.
Sticking up for Travis Outlaw since 2008.
Saves space
You don’t actually quote it because it takes up too much room! It’s how you rec stuff on sites without recs.
your right
this is something that isn’t getting as much attention on BE as it should.
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Feb 4, 2009 9:51 PM PST up reply actions
Most of the time yes
We discuss the offensive abilities, but man we really really struggle defensively. Some of our guys have spurts of being decent, but more often than not they just are really really bad at playing defense both on the ball and off the ball. And a lot of it is effort and some of it is just not knowing how to play the game the right way.
I don’t worry about our offense one bit. I know that we can find someone to run it effectively depending on matchups or who is hot. But I am not comfortable with any of our players on the other end.
"I saw him in the face" Sergio's quote on the latest alley-oop to Rudy.
by blazermaniac32 on Feb 4, 2009 10:00 PM PST up reply actions
will vs ability
Do you think that our lack of defense is due to lack of effort or the absence of ability? If it is effort all it might take is the right player who is committed to playing defense the way KG got the rest of the Celtics to buy in.
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Feb 4, 2009 10:14 PM PST up reply actions
sometimes both but mostly
I think it is an experience thing (at least I hope it is). I think we have some natural ability and at times we have the effort. But not the smarts (yet) to put it all together. That being said I do think that we don’t have any natural defenders (with the exception of Batum) so in order for our defense to be solid, it will take a team effort. But that means that each individual will have to do there part and read and react appropriately. That is where we have a long ways to go.
"I saw him in the face" Sergio's quote on the latest alley-oop to Rudy.
by blazermaniac32 on Feb 4, 2009 10:17 PM PST up reply actions
I think Oden is a natural defender.
Next season, I expect the defense to improve even if we stand pat with our roster.
Jerryd Bayless has two emotions: Kill and Win.
"I want to put points on your face."
-Rudy to Pau Gasol
NorrisHopper30: "someone injure pubert jones"
by rockingharder on Feb 5, 2009 12:03 AM PST up reply actions
Agreed
Good habits as far as being in the right position, experience recognizing plays as they develop and recognizing where you need to go, etc.
Look at it this way. If we have five more possessions per game where guys are in the right position defensively (either because of better habits or because they recognize the play and rotate in a timely fashion), that might convert to 3 more stops. We get 3 more stops per game and we’re a reasonably good (not great, but good) defensive team.
That’s all it takes, five more defensive plays made properly in the course of a game, resulting in 3 more stops. Experience should bring that level of competence. It takes more than experience to make a great defensive team, of course, but the tools are there, with Greg and Joel to anchor the defense.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
+1
Some truth is being said here.
Doesn’t matter who the PG is on defense when Oden ends up guarding the opposing PG on a switch. The pick and roll has been atrocious all season long. They are not hustling on the defense at the beginning of the game. No intensity. This goes to the entire starting 5.
BINGO, BANGO, BONGO
i'm not sure what its due to
but i’m seeing effort on the defensive end and hustle…i think our defensive woes come from helping too much on defense. often times it seems like a player will leave his man to help the on ball defender. if the opponents make the extra pass it usually ends up being a wide open shot.
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Feb 4, 2009 10:10 PM PST up reply actions
I think they do hustle sometimes
But it’s misplaced hustle. In other words they don’t know how to properly react and rotate. And you are correct it usually (actually mostly) ends up being an open shot for the opponents. Or a foul from being out of position.
"I saw him in the face" Sergio's quote on the latest alley-oop to Rudy.
by blazermaniac32 on Feb 4, 2009 10:13 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah our rotation blows.
We rotate too often and we help out at times when there is no need. I’ve been griping for a while about our guards collapsing when a post guy gets it. They get there too late to help if the guy shoots, but if they do get there the guy kicks it out for an easy 3. EVERYONE does this so I’m assuming they’re being told too…
Doubling down low is okay at times, but not every damned play.
ya
they are making the right read, yet they are acting way too slow when they are helping out in the post.
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Feb 4, 2009 10:24 PM PST up reply actions
One point in particular
Roy rotated off the Josh Howard as he was receiving the ball to go guard someone else at the 3 point line
And our pick and roll defense in particular is also atrocious…mostly due to miss-communication it seems. Bad switches, both players sagging off the ball, both players doubling the ball, people going over screens when they should go under, people going under when they should go over…it’s a MESS
Rooo-D!
Pick n Roll defense
Nate once explained in an interview that we always switch to force Greg to “learn” to move his feet. According to Nate, Greg’s best games are when he moves his feet. I guess this is the type of teaching method Nate used with Jerryd as well. If Greg wanted more PT he has to move his feet.
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Feb 5, 2009 8:51 AM PST up reply actions
Sergio can't play defense
I like what Sergio has been able to do on offense in Blake’s absence. He’s shown that he can start games, run the offense, set guys up, and even make some shots. However, he’s just too much of a liability on defense—so much so that it negates anything positive he’s contributing on offense.
BRex’s defense is far from perfect, but he’s always energetic and physical, and he’ll learn to not pick up those ticky-tacky fouls with time. On offense, he’s a firecracker, and he just brings so much energy when he’s on the floor, it lifts up the rest of the team. I’d like to see him starting right now and maybe splitting minutes with Blake when he comes back. It’s not going to happen, I know… but I can dream :-)
This is the Real problem.
PG defense is a HUGE problem for the team. Blake is, at best, mediocre. Sergio is inadequate. Bayless is green and makes mistakes, but at least he is strong enough and fast enough to fight through some screens and apply some on the ball pressure.
Whatever weakness Bayless has as a distributor, is counterbalanced by his ability to score, and his potential on the defensive end.
by upper left corner on Feb 5, 2009 7:49 AM PST up reply actions
Bayless hasn't fought through a screen for weeks
I’ve watched every one of these for the last 10 games, and not once have I seen him effectively fight through a screen. Switch switch switch switch. Not that that is any different from any other guard, but it should be noted. His reputation for going through screens is entirely undeserved.
"It's like, 'Urrrrrrgh!'" Rodriguez says, his cupped hands turning into fists. "It is a good feeling. Good feeling."
Ssshhh
It’s unacceptable to speak ill of Bayless’ defense. If you do, you have to at least mention potential.
You also have to ignore that the PG is the toughest position to play defense on, hence why so many All-Star PGs are considered bad defenders.
Why bother?
Blake will be back soon and people want to flip Sergio and Bayless around when the team has been playing relatively good while Blake is down. Fans just want to switch them around so they can complain when things go wrong and blame the coach for screwing with a lineup that was working.
From Freeman's article
And, more significantly, it was the eighth time in their last 13 games that the Blazers started poorly, which all too often has necessitated second-quarter or second-half comebacks. In six of those games, they’ve trailed after the first quarter and in five of them, including their last two, the Blazers have trailed at halftime.
That’s the point. You said they’ve been plyaing “relatively” good. The competition has alowed them to comeback, until last night. If CP3 had gone down, they’d be looking at a 2 game losing streak. Jerryd is coming in and “fixing” Sergio’s problem (the “horses” are out of the barn) Why not let Bayless disrupt the other team from the opening tip? Where’s the negative?
Started poorly
That means the entire first quarter/first half, that is when Bayless is in the game too.
Second quarter comebacks
That is, 2nd quarter, or…when Bayless is in the game?
I suppose you could look up the +/- differential between Sergio and Jerryd, but all you really need to do is watch the games and you’ll see Bayless getting after it (disrupting defense, leading to transition offense) when he comes in the game.
My question is, why wait until you’re behind to deploy the T-Rex?
"All you really need to do is watch the games"
I’ll try and be nice here, but that’s a dumb statement. Humans are so prone to bias that it’s not even funny. You say Bayless disrupts defenses and leads to transition offense, I say that per possessive he gives up more points than Sergio. For now.
Two person could watch the same player for the same 3 plays and one person could find 3 positive things they did and one person could find 3 negative things they did. Forgive me if I have trouble accepting your comment as worth anything.
Oh
And the only reason we didn’t fall behind 14-2 was because of Sergio. You’ll notice it was everyone else missing the shots.
Inevitable
On Travis, let’s not forget that he’s getting 1/2 or more of his minutes playing the backup PF to Aldridge, not playing the SF slot. Rudy and he are splitting that time right now. When Webster comes back, if we continue to want to give Batum 15 – 20 minutes a game, then either Rudy or Travis will lose minutes.
We should not forget, however, that Travis is one of the more effective off the bench scorers in the league – and that’s not always easy to replace. In part because he creates mismatches with the other teams second unit.
As far as Bayless, I suspect that when Blake comes back – we’ll see more of him than we did in the first 1/2 of the season. Mac, after all, brought him along very slowly, but in the last 10 games or so, we’ve seen Mac increase his time, whereas Sergio does not seem to be stepping up given he’s been starting with the first unit.
All of which implies that what KP said at the beginning of the season is likely to become increasingly true – and that was that Bayless would need 1/2 a season to get acclimated. Well, that appears to be happening.
What we may see is that give Roy is averaging 37 minutes a game, then Blake will start and pick up 20-22 minutes with Roy, Bayless will then pick up another 15 or so minutes with Roy, and Sergio will get the rest with the second team. 10 minutes or so won’t make Sergio happy, but at some point, this was likely inevitable.
Bayless – to put it bluntly – can get points when we need them. In fact, if we look at Fernandez, Outlaw, Pryz and Bayless, it’s tough to see how we can keep such a weapon on the bench. However we use him. He can score – and other teams have a real problem stopping him. He can’t distribute like Sergio – but he is improving. And when you need points – you can’t leave him on the bench.
I'd like to see Roy
averaging under 35 mpg until the playoffs, which could give another 3-4 mpg to spread around somewhere.
Use the depth (no one else has it like we do) to keep guys fresh through the regular season.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
So you're OK with Roy resting, but not Tim Duncan resting?
It's not offensive until someone read it.
Tim Duncan
has averaged 35 mpg or less for five years. I have no problem with that at all. I think it is brilliant coaching.
I would not have a major problem with Duncan resting a game on a back to back when he’s got a minor knock, even if he could play. It’s reasonable to avoid aggravating an injury and let a guy get really well. Blake came back too soon, and I wasn’t happy about it.
I wouldn’t even have a major problem with Duncan resting a game on a back to back when you’ve got your other big guns in the game.
I don’t have a problem with playing your guys normally in the first half and then resting them if they are struggling with fatigue, or if you are down by ten and not going well — send the reserves out in the second half and tell them to try to win it.
It’s resting all three of your all-stars at once, holding them out of the game entirely, when two of them are healthy, that is tacky and inappropriate.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
???
I said all along my objection wasn’t to resting Manu if he had a ding, but to resting all of them at once. I also said it’s no big deal to rest Shaq on back to backs, but it would be to rest Shaq, Nash, and Amare when two of the three are healthy.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Trawling or trolling?
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Country folks can survive
I don’t really see the difference between resting Roy each game and what Pops did with Duncan. Rest is rest.
It's not offensive until someone reads it.
Difference is pretty clear
between resting a player 3-4 mpg and resting three all-stars. But it’s rather off-topic here.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
35 mpg would be ideal.
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Feb 5, 2009 8:53 AM PST up reply actions
Bayless – to put it bluntly – can get points when we need them. In fact, if we look at Fernandez, Outlaw, Pryz and Bayless, it’s tough to see how we can keep such a weapon on the bench. However we use him. He can score – and other teams have a real problem stopping him. He can’t distribute like Sergio – but he is improving. And when you need points – you can’t leave him on the bench.
If that is the lineup you’re looking at Sergio is the man for that job. That team doesn’t need scoring, it needs a guy that can find these guys to score. Especially when Martell is able to return. Sergio with those 3 weapons roaming the court (Rudy, Travis, Martell), with Joel protecting the paint is a much more effective lineup than throwing in another me first scorer that doesn’t make the most of his teammates yet.
Take a look at how effective Sergio is when he's surrounded by 3 shooters
http://www.82games.com/0809/USORT13.HTM
In the entire NBA this year, the group of Sergio – Rudy – Outlaw – Aldridge – Przybilla has been the 2nd best overall lineup in the league, averaging +28 points per 48 minutes. That is incredible. Its a shame we haven’t seen more of it this year.
Portlands 2nd best
Blake-Roy-Batum-Aldridge-Przybilla
Ouch, this says Zilla just owns Oden all around.
Third best
Rodriguez-Roy-Batum-Aldridge-Oden
Finally got some Oden in there! LA happens to be in all 3 too, take that haters.
It's settled.
Trade Brandon Roy! We’re better off without him!
Jerryd Bayless has two emotions: Kill and Win.
"I want to put points on your face."
-Rudy to Pau Gasol
NorrisHopper30: "someone injure pubert jones"
by rockingharder on Feb 5, 2009 3:51 PM PST up reply actions
Questioning Conventional Wisdom
CW around here is that Bayless fits with Roy, because Roy can take much of the distribution responsibility, and that Sergio and Rudy are a great fit with the second unit.
This makes sense from a distribution standpoint, but I think it may not make sense in terms of spacing and pace:
1) Spacing: Both Roy and Bayless are slashers who are at their best taking it to the hole. Roy works well with Blake because Blake can hit the three and helps space the floor and keep the lane open for Roy. When Roy and Bayless are on the floor together, who is the outside threat? Hopefully, Bayless’ shot will come around, but right now he is not a legitimate threat. Batum is hesitant and streaky. Martell returning could be a huge help, but that is hypothetical at this point.
2) Pace: BRoy seems to be at his best playing slow and picking his spots. Bayless is definitely at his best being aggressive and pushing the pace.
What does this mean? To me, it suggests that perhaps it would be best to keep Blake and Roy together on the first squad, and that Bayless should be given a chance with the second unit. Bayless and Rudy are both high energy guys. Travis is also quick enough to beat almost all 4s down the floor, and his ability to create his own shot would help Bayless out in terms of late clock distribution.
Eventually, when Bayless finds his shot, and Martell has returned or Batum has developed into a consistent offensive threat, I think BRoy and Bayless are going to be great together, but maybe Nate should consider some experimentation in the short run.
What do the rest of you think?
by upper left corner on Feb 5, 2009 7:42 AM PST reply actions
I've thought about this, too
I don’t think I agree (entirely).
1) Jerryd is Jarrett Jack on steroids, so they say. Roy and Jarrett were reasonably effective in the half court game last year. Roy is such a threat that when he has the ball, people are cheating to be able to double team or help out. This can create seams for Jerryd to exploit, just like Jarrett did last year.
2) Jerryd is a good shooter, he’s just been struggling this year. It’s actually been improving, though. He’s not Blake, but he’s coming along.
3) Bayless needs to learn to be effective in the half court game, and I think he’s progressing on this.
4) Our starters right now get few easy buckets, most of it is out of the half court set — if it is easy, it is because we’ve run a good play or exploited a defensive breakdown. Jerryd provides the threat for easy buckets by pushing the ball, which gives Batum/LMA the opportunity to fill the lanes.
So, I think the CW that Roy and Bayless are a great fit is correct. The problems with it (1- Jerryd’s shooting 2- the fact that he’s best pushing the pace) are 1- already starting to resolve and 2- something he needs to work through, and will.
That said, once Blake is back, you are right. Blake still brings more than Jerryd to the starting unit. And I actually think Sergio does, too, right now. Nate wants to start the game by establishing Greg or LMA inside, and Sergio is probably a better PG for the time being to accomplish that.
So, in my opinion, the conventional wisdom (that Bayless is a perfect fit with Roy) is right, but it is wisdom for the future. We’re seeing them effective together at times, certainly, but I don’t think he’s what Nate wants at the start of the game, and I think Nate’s reasons are fairly sound. Sergio is probably better right now with Brandon, and Blake certainly is. That may change within 5 games, 10 games, or 80 games, but I think that is where we are right now.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
I mostly agree
Blake is a better fit with Roy this year. Bayless should get a lot of minutes off the bench, but he takes the game away from Roy, and that isn’t really positive overall.
For Bayless to be the right fit, he needs to be a better shooter and distributor. If he can do that, then the team has a great kind of hybrid offense — capable of fast-breaking on anybody, but also great in the half court. Right now, the half-court offense has become a little monotonous because there’s only one play: Bayless drives the lane. It’s a great play, but it neglects a lot of other strengths.
Sticking up for Travis Outlaw since 2008.
Bayless is effing phenominal on the break compared to Jack
In that aspect alone I’m glad we have him over Jack. Oh and he doesn’t step out of bounds 60 times a year.
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Feb 5, 2009 8:54 AM PST up reply actions
"Oh and he doesn’t step out of bounds 60 times a year."
But he did yesterday. Oops!
Sticking up for Travis Outlaw since 2008.
with jack you expect him to do it
with jerryd you don’t.
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Feb 5, 2009 6:02 PM PST up reply actions
Spacing would be an issue, but no less of an issue than Roy/Sergio....
I don’t think anybody wants Bayless to take Blakes starting job, this post is about him taking the starting role until Blake is back. We won’t find out who gets the 2nd string minutes until then.
1) I think spacing is an issue with the Roy/Bayless backcourt. Bayless has to develop a consistent 3 point shot to be a long term point guard next to Roy. My money says he will develop and incorporate the deep ball. I am not a shooting coach, but I think Bayless needs to reconstruct his shot sooner rather than later. It simply takes too long to get it off, and also seems a little too far out in front of him which makes it a relatively easy release to block. Townsend can fix this to be sure…
2) I don’t see this as an issue. Right now, Bayless is a one man fast break anyway. He shines when he gets the ball and runs it down the opponents throat. He is not the type of guy who is going to wait for his teammates to catch up and fill the lanes, he is going to drop his head and get to the rim. That shouldn’t really cross onto Roys territory much as long as Rex learns to pull it out and set up Roy when the numbers aren’t there.
Bayless is still making a ton of mental mistakes out there. Entry passes for turnovers, getting lost rotating on defense, dropping his head and forcing the ball when the opportunity isn’t there, stepping out of bounds, etc… I don’t really think he has supplanted Sergio for the backup job(if Sergio is still with us in a couple of weeks)…
RUDY > MJ
think Bayless needs to reconstruct his shot sooner rather than later. It simply takes too long to get it off
I noticed this back in summer league. Watch Jerryd on the FT line. He cups his hand and shoots the ball from “around” the RH side. It takes longer to load up and I’m not sure if his backspin is 180 degrees, like it should be
ASU11
That wasn’t a reference to a line-up – but to scoring. Mac told Frye prior to the season’s start that when the game’s on the line – he wants his scorers on the floor – and if he wanted to up his minutes – he had to improve. And to MAC – that means all 5 positions – not three or four. Injuries aside, Sergio will never be on the floor at the end of a game or during crunch time if he doesn’t take it up a notch. Some talk about the fact that it’s easier to be a scorer – than a distributor, but if that’s the case, then given Sergio has had three years, why hasn’t he been able to develop that “easier” component? Assuming it’s so easy?
As far as one who suggested that Bayless should be traded now for a “real” PG because he has the best trade value, perhaps the question should be "why does he have the best trade value?’ assuming one agrees with that assessment. Not only does this imply that Bayless is considered superior to Sergio by possible trading partners, but that he may also be perceived to be better weapon in a few years than either Outlaw, Webster or Fernandez.
And, in any case, there are no “real PG’s” that teams are going to give up for Bayless – and likely not for any price most Blazer fans are willing to pay.
It’s a tough role. And, we may end up with a hybrid – but never that “pure” point some seem to crave. However, teams have been winning with hybrids for years. San Antonio, Chicago etc.
Sergio has shown he can be a scorer
And there is usually a spot on the bench for him afterwards. There are 2 explanations.
1. Nate thinks Bayless is the future, in which case trade Sergio please because you’re wasting his time.
2. KP wants Bayless to get PT to up his trade value, in which case trade Bayless please.
as one of sergios biggest fans
i still can’t make the argument that sergio has shown he can be a scorer.
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Feb 5, 2009 11:33 AM PST up reply actions
Right
Sergio can make some shots, but that isn’t the same as being a scorer, if you know what I mean.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
agreed
Brandon and Travis are scorers. Blake and Webster are shooters.
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Feb 5, 2009 11:38 AM PST up reply actions
And Sergio
isn’t really either (although I think his shooting is improved).
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Sergio is okay when he drives it and shoots it. The question isn't whether he's competent or incompetent, it's whether a circus will ensue if he becomes the 3rd PG...
Honestly, it’s a decision that doesn’t even need to be made this season — but Nate has GOT to stop with the DNPs for Rex. That much is clear. But there’s no reason you can’t have 3 PGs IN THE SHORT TERM.
The cilantro in your tapioca pudding since 2007.™
For us Sergio fans this is the worst part
If Sergio had a single place on the court where he was an effective scorer/shooter people would have a vastly different opinion of him. He simply hasn’t been able to develop that one thing yet.
Again, Nate doesn't want him to be one.
So he doesn’t even try to score most of the time. Granted his 3 point shooting could use some work, but it’s now good enough that teams can’t cheat. (Jason Kidd in the opening minutes of the Dallas game.)
Counter argument
I’ve used the rationale that “maybe wants Nate to start/showcase Sergio right now to increase Rod’s trade value”
We may never know, unless there’s a deal
Agreed almost across the board
When Roy is out there Bayless is my preference at PG. If Rudy and Outlaw are out there I’d prefer Sergio be on the court. Its pretty clear how Nate prefers to end games based on his past decisions, and I’m okay with that. As long as Roy’s out there, like I said, Bayless is the way to go.
When Blake comes back I think people are going to have a hard time accepting the fact that Bayless simply won’t see the court much. Sergio plays better with the players on our 2nd unit, and gives us the best chance to win. Without a trade Jerryd can only hope that one of the two guys in front of him gets injured so he can get his minutes (as he has with Blake’s injury).
Long term out of our 3 PG’s Blake should be the one to go. I think Bayless and Sergio are perfect compliments to the 1st and 2nd units respectively. Of course if we can get someone much better… go do that.
Sounds like you're using basic logic here
and I’m not sure that’s going to play into it. Sergio is better with the 2nd unit most of the time. Bayless can be the more effective at other times. Both are most effective when on the attack. I think Bayless will get more time than Sergio because Nate hates/doesn’t trust Serge.
I would like to see either A: Get them both time in each game and stick with the one who is on his game or being more effective. B: How about putting Sergio and Bay on the floor together. Rudy at 3, Travis at 4 and Zilla cleaning it all up? You can still LA in there as well to get him running up and down the floor but you get my point. Attack team one with Alien AND predator.
by Blazersaurus on Feb 5, 2009 10:53 AM PST up reply actions
Sergio and JayBay together is pure disaster.
Too small, have a hard time defending their positions anyway. Offensively they thrive in different styles of games.
It could only work if Bayless plays the off guard
And even that not well since like Sergio he isn’t an outside shooting threat. And as you said, on defense that would be an awfully small lineup.
No, that's ALWAYS a bad combination.
Sergio works best with Rudy.
Rex work best with Rudy.
The cilantro in your tapioca pudding since 2007.™
Everyone works best with Rudy
because he moves without the ball, which helps any PG a lot. Rudy can go 0/5 from the field and he’s still a valuable piece of the offense.
Bayless should definitely be starting over Sergio
And I don’t understand not playing Sergio and Rudy together exclusively since they are a hundred times more effective that way.
Blazer Fan
And if we are being honest with ourselves the reason we start slow is that we start three non-scorers
Batum, Sergio, and Oden
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Feb 5, 2009 11:03 AM PST up reply actions
Nate on 95.5 the game this morning
Nate said that Bayless is making the most of the playing time he is getting. He felt that Bayless’ PG play will develop, but that right now he is bringing a lot of good energy to the floor. He felt that Bayless was the best defender of the pick and roll, since he has the body strengh to do it. He also said that he knows how to score.
My take is that Nate is pretty high on Bayless at the moment and he will continue to get playing time when Blake returns. The question is where will the playihng time come from and I think both Blake and Sergio’s minutes will be reduced depending on the match ups.
Has Nate been watchign the games
Bayless gets burned on the pick and roll as much as anyone. He switches almost everytime. I’ve been watching very closely the last 10 games and not a single time does Bayless fight through a screen and recover enough to have any impact on the play, in fact, by far the majority of times he switches. So, a serious question: What is Nate referring to when he says Bayless is the best defender of the pick and roll? Maybe Bayless does great on it in practice or somehting.
"It's like, 'Urrrrrrgh!'" Rodriguez says, his cupped hands turning into fists. "It is a good feeling. Good feeling."
My theory
is that Bayless is still overwhelmed by the speed of the game. He probably is good at fighting through picks, but doesn’t recognize when the pick is coming in actual game time. Nate has to be talking about what he’s doing in practice.
much agreed
his turn overs are very rookie like….not being in the right place at the right time and passing to the wrong place at the wrong time (sometimes right place wrong time). Look how far he’s come in a month. More playing time will only make him better.
by keepfryealive on Feb 5, 2009 3:20 PM PST up reply actions
watch closer
if he goes under, he gets back in time to affect the pg shot…if he switches he does a better job than Blake and Sergio at making the posession difficult for the larger mismatch player he switched to.
the P and R D may not be what you (andy most of BE) would like to see. But that doesn’t mean he’s not the best P and R defender they have.
by keepfryealive on Feb 5, 2009 3:16 PM PST up reply actions
Bayless on the pick and roll
Bayless gets burned on the pick and roll as much as anyone. He switches almost everytime.
I disagree. I think he fights through picks but doesn’t always get through. I don’t see him switching at all — not on purpose.
I do see Sergio getting spun around and left in the dust by other point guards. I’m not impressed with his defense much and I don’t think this is the area where Sergio has an edge.
Sticking up for Travis Outlaw since 2008.
oh, i said nothign about Sergio having an edge here
only that Bayless is ineffective also. He might be fighting through, but if he doesn’t get through in time to prevent a switch and/or his man getting to the basket, then it doesn’t really matter how hard he ‘tried.’
"It's like, 'Urrrrrrgh!'" Rodriguez says, his cupped hands turning into fists. "It is a good feeling. Good feeling."
So, why didn't Gavin (or whoever) ask Nate
The question that I started this fanpost with? If the team is getting off to slow starts, why not start Bayless?
How about it, Portland media and blog-masters? Somebody ask Nate this question directly, please?
Nate is reading too much BE
He has already assumed that Bayless is already Harris/Parker caliber. Trade Sergio to Orlando please and lol as they win the title!
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