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How good is Denver?

I'm going to make this post short because I am sick. Both physically and mentally tired. So bare with me if I don't sound cohesive.

In all honesty, how good is Denver? I don't want to hear "They suck! Blazers FTW!" arguments here. It is obvious with a little less than half a season left before the playoffs that they are our main competition in our division. The te am, or atleast Nate and the coaching staff from my recollection, said that was the main goal of the season; not the playoffs. Inherently, winning the division would mean you would be in the playoffs anyways, so it's a pretty, for the lack of a better word, "nifty" goal.

Well, in the period of our 5 game win streak and now our loss to Dallas, we have been as close as 1 game away and now were 2.5. That's a little disheartening, considering they [Denver] have been defeating some serious teams we usual have some speed bumps dealing with. But then again they beat a Spurs team missing it's top trio and tonight barely squeezed a win out of OKC. 

In my mind, it all points to defense. They have more of it than we do but I don't want to go any further into that subject at the moment. 

Can we over take them, the rest of our schedule looks pleasing enough to get by the. Sooner or later? For good? They have a "difficult" schedule coming up but why is it that I don't see them failing substantially? They have proved themselves in my eyes, in a way. I do see them playing strong basketball. Chauncey has done wonders.

The one thing I would love for us to do is win our division and put Denver to shame. And maybe behind Utah, haha, wishful thinking. What are your opinions. This isn't a Portland vs. Denver game discussion (even if it were the case, were 1-1). This is about us versus our opposition/schedule and them versus theirs. And this might seem hypocritical and/or confusing but not records versus records, obviously they and we have beaten teams as underdogs. And if I remember correctly they have won more as underdogs than we have or are least consider so than us.

So, before I lose myself from illness, let me reiterate myself. How good is Denver and can we beat them to the top? Not short? Damn.

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They are about on our level.

If Spurs didn’t hand them a win and they played someone other than OKC (which if I heard right took a game winning shot to pull off anyway) tonight things would look way different. We’ve lost 1 out of our last 6, and even though it seemed like a disheartening game it’s only 1 game and our schedule favors us coming up.

Anyway, I don’t think they’re that much of a better team than us. I certainly wouldn’t put them in the elite yet. I think we can pass them, but if not just making the playoffs is good enough for me this year.

by Bskey on Feb 4, 2009 8:55 PM PST reply actions  

Yup

Nene has been the difference. Ultra-efficient man he is. He’d be the perfect back-up PF for us, except he’s paid a lot.

by Eventine on Feb 4, 2009 9:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Your probably right. He’s definitely give them that back-bone.

by dpnim on Feb 4, 2009 9:25 PM PST up reply actions  

+1

billups is really the glue that sticks denver together

by gorillas on Feb 4, 2009 10:14 PM PST up reply actions  

I think Dallas would give us more trouble in a playoff series than Denver

If we faced Denver in the playoffs it is a coin flip. Most likely whoever has home court wins that series.

I'm a little confused by your tactics

by oderiferous emanations 74 on Feb 4, 2009 9:18 PM PST reply actions  

Agreed

but that’s not what this post is regarding. Not so much the playoffs but more so the the top Northwest Division spot. which would mean we get home court advantage.

by dpnim on Feb 4, 2009 9:27 PM PST up reply actions  

The one thing I would love for us to do is win our division and put Denver to shame.

I really don’t care if we “shame” Denver by winning our division, as long as we show them who’s boss when it actually comes to the playoffs. How sweet would if we got matched up with them in the first round and sent them to their 8th straight first round exit?

Want more aggressiveness? Try less Baylesslessness.

by prezofdeath on Feb 4, 2009 9:21 PM PST reply actions  

sweet indeed

The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever

by Philthyanimal on Feb 4, 2009 9:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Enver? Not getting out of the 1st roun.

There shoul just be two conferences, 15 teams each, en of story. Really, you think the “Northwest ivision” promotes any kind of special rivalry? Not me. Enver is just one of 6-7 teams in the hunt.

And they won’t get out of the first roun. Enver is missing something. I can’t quite put my finger on it.

by chnews on Feb 4, 2009 10:13 PM PST reply actions   4 recs

Have you been paying attention?

Denver is sixth in the league in defensive efficiency, right after San Antonia and LA, and just above Houston.

I’d say that’s pretty good Defense.

Portland, on the other hand, is 18th, behind Chicago, just above Phoenix. That’s not good.

by TimG on Feb 5, 2009 2:01 AM PST up reply actions  

The irony is delicious here

Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Feb 5, 2009 12:26 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

just think about how much better denver coulda been if they kept camby…they basically gave him away for nothing

by gorillas on Feb 4, 2009 10:16 PM PST reply actions  

He'd be playing in front of Nene

Nene has helped them at center much more than Camby ever did. Camby was quite a bit overrated defensively, though he is a great rebounder. Nene’s defense and better offense has been a lot more help than Camby woulda’ been.

They shoulda’ got more for Camby than they did, but Nene being healthy and Camby not getting Nene’s minutes (which he surely would have) is a huge reason they are good now.

And Billups, of course.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Feb 5, 2009 1:10 AM PST up reply actions  

They are better than us right now

Their players are older and more seasoned, and they mesh well together since the arrival of Billups. The “Enver” jokes are a little outdated, since their defense is significantly better than ours. I think it’s unlikely that we’ll beat them out for the division, but it would be worth celebrating if we do.
I’m thinking, though, with Paul being out for NO, that we have a real good shot at the 4th seed. I would NEVER have guessed that we’d be in that position this far into the season.
If I had to guess, I’d put the top playoff seeds as:
1) LA
2) SA
3) Den
4) us
And that’s pretty awesome. I still don’t think we’ll get out of the first round, but it’s a season to be proud of for sure.

by kickbrass on Feb 4, 2009 10:25 PM PST reply actions  

Depends

We need Utah or Houstan to make a run at that 5 spot!

by Zaig on Feb 5, 2009 9:21 AM PST up reply actions  

If we can surpass Denver and win our division

then we’ll likely be a 3 seed and have a much better chance of making it to the second round of the playoffs. If we finish as a 4 or 5 seed i think we’ll probably lose in the first round.

I’d say our chance of beating out Denver is about 50-50. Wouldn’t bet against it.

Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds.

-Ralph Waldo Emerson

by MT Suit on Feb 4, 2009 10:31 PM PST reply actions  

lol

I love how the “Northwest Division” tag made SB Nation suggest I go read hockey posts that are also tagged “Northwest Division”

Want more aggressiveness? Try less Baylesslessness.

by prezofdeath on Feb 4, 2009 10:59 PM PST reply actions  

Its hard to say

I live in Colorado and the Nugs are always on TV. I try not to watch because it gets tiring rooting specifically against a team night in and night out and I kind of like them in spite of being the Blazers biggest obstacle right now.

I agree that Nene has been the key for them this season. He gives them their toughness and identity. Chauncey has been huge obviously. JR Smith has really emerged as a legit sixth man (I would say he is on about the same level as Travis, maybe better even). Carmelo is back from a months absence and is playing with a chip on his shoulder- and it is truly scary when he figures it all out. Birdman is not a joke either, even though everything he does outside of basketball would imply otherwise. I also love their ex Blazer Kleiza’s game too as well as Anthony Carter’s.

I think after they got Chauncey and started winning immediately everyone kind of expected them to fall back down to earth. But the thing is they havent. They know they can’t let up all season with Portland getting better daily, so they in turn have stepped it up a notch. They can play with the best and they know it, being 3rd in the west and having a bunch of quality wins so far.

Baring an injury free rest-of-season I would say the Blazers CAN overtake them…. But it isnt likely. However these are two injury-prone teams so who knows. But still both Portland and Denver are pretty deep….

I think anyone who follows the Nugs would be lying if they said they knew how good their team was until the first round of the playoffs is over. Whereas our team’s goal is to make the playoffs, theirs is to WIN. They are a group of battle-tested veterans and they expect to go out and win every night. Thats where the real difference lies between the two clubs, and it is what is making Denver better right now. For the stretch run I think they will be neck-and-neck with the blazers and the final game of the season when the two square off will determine the winner of the division

by FreeDamon on Feb 4, 2009 11:35 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

That would be eipc

The final game of the season. At the Rose Garden. Winner take all. I would lose my voice by the first timeout.

Karma

by Sabonis4Ever on Feb 5, 2009 12:08 AM PST up reply actions  

He'd lose his voice

on national TV?

When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.

by jscot on Feb 5, 2009 6:23 AM PST up reply actions  

Denver is very good

They were 1-3 before Chauncey arrived. Since then, they are 32-13, which would be clearly the second best in the conference. That is 71%, which over the course of a season is 58 wins. Because of the 1-3 start, they will perhaps win 56-57 games, but maybe even one or two more. It is extremely unlikely that we will beat them for the division title unless they lose some key time to injury.

I like the matchup if we face them in the playoffs, I think there is a legitimate chance to beat them. This is not the same team that has lost in the first round repeatedly, though. Billups knows how to win in the playoffs, and Nene is not the Nene of the past couple years.

They have road wins at Boston, S.A., and Dallas. They aren’t a great road team, in fact, they just aren’t great against winning teams (3-9 at home, 9-6 on the road). But they take care of business against losing teams better than anyone in the West (21-1, everyone else has lost at least 3 games to losing teams, Portland has lost 4).

Their schedule is marginally tougher than ours. We have one more home game against losing teams than they do, which should be a win. Count us as being two games behind them, instead of 2 1/2. We have the same number of games left (15) against winning teams as they do (everyone else has at least three more), but seven of those 15 for us are on the road, and 9 of their 15 are on the road. Both of us are bad at road games against winning teams (we’re 4-10, they are 3-9), so count that as an edge which is probably worth a game, possibly two games.

They have 8 back to backs left, but only five of them are on the road. We have seven left, and all seven are on the road.

They are in the middle of a 4 in 5 nights stretch, having won the first two. If Billups misses with his ankle problem and K-mart with strep throat, they could drop one or even both of those, which would improve our chances. I still think it unlikely we beat them out, but if they manage to lose both, that really puts it in a toss-up.

Some people are looking at their upcoming schedule the rest of this month, and it certainly is tougher than ours. We may have a chance to surpass them. But overall, their remaining schedule is not significantly more difficult, so if we do surpass them, that does not mean we will stay ahead of them, or be favored to win the division. If we don’t get an edge of a game or so by the end of February, I think this one is probably theirs to lose.

When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.

by jscot on Feb 5, 2009 12:24 AM PST reply actions  

It's not true

We’re 6-3, and those games have included some relatively easy competition.

When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.

by jscot on Feb 5, 2009 12:31 AM PST up reply actions  

Didn't we start 1-3 too?

A 4 game “pre Chauncy” sample size is pretty small.

by Zaig on Feb 5, 2009 9:22 AM PST up reply actions  

It's not the pre-Billups I care about

I don’t really care how bad or good they were. What I care about is how good this current team is — so you leave those first four games out, because they tell us nothing about how good the current team is.

Their current team has not lost against a team below .500, home or away. They have been awesome at winning the games they should.

If you wanted to factor out the four games we were without Brandon, that would be a reasonable comparison. We were 2-2, so our with-Brandon record is 28-16. Of course, with the quality of opposition, we might have lost two of those anyway….

When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.

by jscot on Feb 5, 2009 9:51 AM PST up reply actions  

Plus. They've been good without Carmelo!

Their stellar record was compiled even though Carmelo has missed 15 games out of 49. Its pretty scary what they will do with him being back. Allowing for a few games while he shakes the rust off — though rust didn’t hold him back form hitting the game winner against OKC.

by FromAfar on Feb 5, 2009 4:22 PM PST up reply actions  

btw...

I really like your site and am envious of it. I wish the Nuggets had one that had this kind of participation.

I am the eggman...they are the eggman...I am the Mermaid...Goo Goo Gajoob!!!

by PosterNutbag on Feb 5, 2009 12:28 AM PST up reply actions  

Rec

Thanks for the thoughts. I think you are right about the next seven. Stay ahead of us during those, and your in the driver’s seat.

Any idea whether Billups and/or Martin will be playing this weekend?

When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.

by jscot on Feb 5, 2009 12:33 AM PST up reply actions  

Thanks guys.

I expect Chauncey to play. I believe they kept him out tonight more as a precuationary measure than out of necessity.

KMart has step throat so I’d imagine he’d be ready to play by the weekend although I don’t really know for sure.

Both players were considered game time decisions tonight.

I am the eggman...they are the eggman...I am the Mermaid...Goo Goo Gajoob!!!

by PosterNutbag on Feb 5, 2009 12:43 AM PST up reply actions  

The only other think I'd add...

is that even though Denver (Enver? very funny chnews) fans are ‘cautiously optimistic’, I think many of us also have a sense that if Denver can start firing on all cylinders at the right time then we may be able to beat anyone in the league in the playoffs (I can hear the scoffs…lol). We have a lot of weapons and if they were all to find their groove heading into the playoffs then the Nuggets are definitely dangerous. Heck…if Arizona can make a Super Bowl then anything is possible. ;-)

I know that’s a big “if”….but?

I am the eggman...they are the eggman...I am the Mermaid...Goo Goo Gajoob!!!

by PosterNutbag on Feb 5, 2009 1:05 AM PST up reply actions  

Divisional rivarly aside, good luck to the Nuggets for the rest of the year.

In all honesty I wasn’t sure Denver would make the playoffs post-Camby and pre-Billups. Once that trade went down I thought ok, they’re back to battling for 8th seed. To be fair I thought the Blazers would be battling for 7th-8th seed as well.

I must admit Denver has surprised me and they are looking like a much better team than last year obviously. The next 7-8 games are big for this division, and although Blazers have a relatively easy schedule I would not be surprised to see Denver remain at the top.

I love Nene, and I’m happy he’s doing good, he’s been huge for you guys this year. Good luck in the play-offs when they come around so long as you don’t face us!

by Bskey on Feb 5, 2009 1:16 AM PST up reply actions  

same to you guys...

I think this should be a pretty good rivalry for years to come. Portland is a very young team and Denver a little older; however, I think Denver and Portland have many of the seeds necessary to keep them a contender for some time to come.

I am the eggman...they are the eggman...I am the Mermaid...Goo Goo Gajoob!!!

by PosterNutbag on Feb 5, 2009 11:21 AM PST up reply actions  

Dear nuggets fan

We’d love to be able to surpass your team, and we feel it’s a very close battle right now. We understand the reason your team is doing so well is this thing called defense. We usually spell efense. Is there any chance you would send some tapes this “pick and roll” and “avoiding the defensive mismatch” idea? We aren’t sure it really works, and it might be a myth. However you guys seem to be doing well on avoiding letting the opponent score lots of points. In exchange for this, we’ll give you advice on how to have chauncy guard dirk, or how you can get nene on the the three point line defending chris paul. This would give you some other options for things to do in the playoffs that noone would expect from a team with a good defensive rating.

by lurtsman on Feb 5, 2009 9:50 AM PST up reply actions  

Honestly,

The Nugs are terrible at playing the pick and roll too. Karl has long been a very vocal fan of man to man defense and despises zones (he even went as far as to say recently that “(he) doesn’t really understand how zones work”). Other teams, knowing this fact, take advantage of it by using the pick to set up mismatches all day long. Also, we tend to be slow on the exchange and often give up wide open shots. It feels like the Nuggets must lead the NBA in number of wide open threes allowed. Further yet, when the Nugs are being the “bad Nugs” it only takes a single pick to send our entire defense into disarray. We’ve got three defenders chasing one guy, nobody covering another two, Birdman just starts flying every which way, JR getsl the puppy dog look and starts twirling in circles, the rafter start crumbling, Pepsi Center burst into flames, and soon Denver is in the midst of an apocalypse. That may be a little meladramatic…but not by much.

I am the eggman...they are the eggman...I am the Mermaid...Goo Goo Gajoob!!!

by PosterNutbag on Feb 5, 2009 10:40 AM PST up reply actions  

Oh wait...you asked for film.

This is a video put together by Jeremy from Roundball Mining Company (formerly with Pickaxe and Roll):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAC1L2i9S-U&eurl=http://www.roundballminingcompany.com/page/2/

I am the eggman...they are the eggman...I am the Mermaid...Goo Goo Gajoob!!!

by PosterNutbag on Feb 5, 2009 11:28 AM PST up reply actions  

Rec'd! Thanks for stopping by. I think you are right about the next seven / eight games determining the division winner.

My hope is that we are .5 games behind Denver for our last home game of the season vs the Nuggets. That would be FIERCE!!!!

by dario argento on Feb 5, 2009 5:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Denver typically gets a 4, 5 seed and bombs out in the first round

This year due to injuries to Utah, they may get a higher seed and bomb out in the first round.

I don’t think Billups is enough to enable them to advance. Sorry ,I’ve been here and seen this Nugget bandwagon many times before.

Blazer Fan

by leeroyjenkins on Feb 5, 2009 7:15 AM PST reply actions  

You are always so positive

Whatever, I don’t care how Denver does as long as we beat them in the end.

Rudy for ROY
Campaign 08-09

"Rudy is not everyday a shooter." ~Rudy Fernandez

by twiggs on Feb 5, 2009 7:57 AM PST up reply actions  

I get what you mean

But this Denver team is pretty sizeably different and better— a good defensive team now, with Nene’s quickness and athleticism anchoring the middle, and Billups veteran savvy and size holding down opposing guards as well.

If this was still the same team, for the most part, as last year, I’d agree with you. If you say it about Houston, I’ll agree— they ain’t any different it seems, even with Artest.

Denver, however, has really changed for the better.

I still think we can beat them in a 7 game series, but they could take on almost any team in the 1st round and I wouldn’t be shocked if they won.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Feb 5, 2009 3:50 PM PST up reply actions  

I say the Blazers are .5 games back by All-Star weekend

Though I believe the collective roster of the Blazers is more talented, the Nugs have experience (Billups, etc) on their side. In my opinion, both teams are somewhat erratic and lack a true team identity so it’s really a toss up.

"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany."

by dcblazer on Feb 5, 2009 8:59 AM PST reply actions  

Nuggets has no future

As they are now they can grab 3-8 seeds in the playoffs and lose in round 1 or 2.

by Zaig on Feb 5, 2009 9:23 AM PST reply actions  

Denver is good right now, pretty darn good. Better than the Blazers I think.

They’re just more consistent, play better defense, and get to the line more. I still think we may break out this year and rise like a phoenix to shock some people,

by dario argento on Feb 5, 2009 5:46 PM PST reply actions  

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