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Around SBN: Iron Bowl Thoughts... Right Now

Summer Cap Space Options

Committed 2009-10 Salaries:
$41.3 million (9 players plus Miles)

Team Options (not exactly, but same thing cap-wise):
4.0 Million for Steve Blake
3.6 Million for Travis Outlaw

Cap Holds:
$9.5 million Channing Frye (if we give him the qualifying offer)

~$1.1 million 2009 1st round pick (estimated, if we don't trade it)
$824k Petteri Koponen
$824k Joel Freeland
$467k per roster spot under 12, if we don't have 12 (holds count towards the 12)
(something for Shavlick and Ruffins, but I'm assuming they are moot and will be renounced if/when needed)

Lowest Cap Number we can get: $42.7 million (release all holds and Travis/Steve and trade our pick)
Likely scenario: $51.646 (keep Travis/Steve, pick, and rights to Petteri/Joel)


What are our options?
Assuming the likely scenario above, we will enter summer as officially over the cap, since you have to include our $3.1 million trade exception, the Mid level exception (around 5.5 million), and the biannual exception (around 1.75 million) to our $51.646 cap total, which will definately be enough to push us over the new cap, whatever it ends up being.

At that point, we can use any or all 3 of these exceptions. the MLE and Bi-annual exception can be used to sign free agents, whereas the trade exception can only be used to acquire players via trade. None of these exceptions can be combined to bring back someone at a bigger salary.

The other option we have is to renounce the exceptions, which would then take us under the salary cap. How much under depends on what the cap is, and which of the several options and holds we decided to keep. Note that the Freeland and Koponen holds can be freed up at any point over the summer by renoucing their rights. This is not the case with any of our current 3 players listed above. We have to decide by the end of June whether or not to waive Steve and/or Travis, so once we decide to keep them past that date, we can't undecide later.  Channing is a similar situation, in that we have to decide prior to June 30 whether or not to extend him a qualifying offer. Once we do that, he starts taking up the 9.5 million in cap space until he signs the qualifying offer, signs a new contract (with us or someone else), or we try to rescind an unsigned qualifying offer (has a deadline for doing so)

So, if we got back to the likely scenario above, we enter summer with the 3 exceptions, at which point we can decide instead to renounce those and instead clear somewhere between 5 and 8 million dollars in cap space. it is important to note that even 5 million in cap space is potentially more valuable than a 5.5 million dollar mid level exception, because you can use the space to make unbalanced trades, which you cannot do with the MLE. For example, we could decide to trade away LaMarcus, Travis, and Sergio (10.9 million) in exchange for Chris Bosh (15.8 million).  Or, you could trade away Martell Webster and Sergio Rodriguez in exchange for Gerald Wallace.  Many other unbalanced trades are possible as well. And of course, you could instead use the 5 to 8 million to sign a free agent instead. The good news is that you don't have to actually decide and renounce the exceptions until you need to. You start with them in play, and if you work out an unbalanced trade you like, you renounce them and make the trade.  If you don't, then you maybe use the exceptions instead. Same thing applies to the Joel and Petteri holds - if you need that extra bit of space at the last minute, you can get it by renouncing them. But you don't have to decide until you have a deal done.

I think that about covers it for now, but I'm sure someone will correct me if I missed anything.

Thanks alway to Storyteller for the salary information (and reminding me about the cap hold for our upcoming draft pick)

15 recs  |  Comment 62 comments

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Awesome info

Many thanks for this.

Disappointed that there was no trade made as I feel there is now more pressure for the team to make a move this summer.

Oh well bring on the playoffs (hopefully).

by Bairdy on Feb 19, 2009 2:38 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

That is some good info right there. I was just pondering are moves at the trade deadline(or lack thereof)and wondering what Portland was really going to have money wise to work with this summer.
If I read this right we can package the 3 million doller trade exception along with another player to aquire a player in a trade correct?

I try to help with everything," Fernandez said. "If the coach says go rebound, I go rebound. I work for the team.

""If I'm playing this game to get media and attention, I shouldn't be here," Aldridge said. "I'm here to play basketball, and do what I can do to help this team win."

by Dragonage on Feb 19, 2009 2:38 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

sure

that is what they did with that one guy in the Jason Kidd deal (sorry I am drawing a blank on the name)

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

by 92wastheyear on Feb 19, 2009 2:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Keith Van Horn

I’d like to make a few million to be filler in a trade.

by Salem Stephen on Feb 19, 2009 3:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That's the guy

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

by 92wastheyear on Feb 19, 2009 3:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

but then someone would have to carry that for 1 year. It might make sense is some kind of LaFrentz for Curry and Lee type deal (though Lee would have to be resigned, probably for quite a bit…), where a team is only concerned about the cap for 2010, but teams trying to shed money ASAP probably wouldn’t be interested.

by matthewcc on Feb 19, 2009 3:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, Raef LaFrentz could be included in a sign-'n'-trade deal.

Step #1:

The Portland Trail Blazers re-sign LaFrentz to a three-year, maximum-level deal — which’d pay him an annual salary that’s equal to 35% of next season’s salary cap — with only the first season of the deal at a guaranteed salary.

Step #2:

The New York Knicks re-sign David Lee to a hypothetical five-year, $50 million contract — which’d pay him a non-escalating annaul salary of $10 million per season — that has an early termination option he could exercise after the fourth season.

Step #3:

The Trail Blazers and Knicks agree to the following sign-‘n’-trade deal.

FROM PORTLAND & TO NEW YORK
PF Raef LaFrentz ($19,261,200)*

FROM NEW YORK & TO PORTLAND
C Eddy Curry ($10,500,423)#
PF David Lee ($10,000,000)^

*Approximated Maximum Salary
#Contract Has 15% Trade Kicker
^Base-Year Compensation Player

I wouldn’t do that move, though, nor is it likely that Paul Allen would sign off on it for financial reasons.

by AK1984 on Feb 19, 2009 9:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I wish the Blazers had Bird-Rights on me

Sign me to a ridiculous deal for trading purposes.

by as11osu on Feb 19, 2009 11:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It would be useful

if another team over the cap wanted to sign him for something other than the vet min, biannual, or midlevel.

In practicality, it’s useless.

Sixty-percent of the time, it works one-hundred percent of the time.

by rudydrops3s on Feb 19, 2009 3:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

One factor you failed to mention:

I think (and was discussing with Ben) that there is at least the outside possibility that the team manages to appeal and get the Miles cap room back. [This has been discussed previously as well.]

If we can get that space back, look out league.

(I know I was all depressed earlier. This is part of my attempt to rationalize my disappointment.)

by samuelleejackson on Feb 19, 2009 2:49 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

thought about that

but it still seems like such a long shot at this point, so I didn’t want to muddy the water too much. Obviously if that happens we can clear enough room for a max deal if we want. Or more likely, we just can absorb a lot more salary in trade.

Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.

by douglast on Feb 19, 2009 2:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think you're wrong (sorry to burst your bubble)

Portland’s appeal would not be to have the salary removed again, it would be appealing the decision to have it put back on their cap. A fine line, sure – but there is a difference between saying

“We want it off our cap again” (because he’s injured again)

and

“It should never have been put back against our cap”

by Storyteller on Feb 20, 2009 9:25 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

the appeal (look back a month or so where this was discussed at length) would essentially be arguing that the part of the collective bargaining agreement where this is addressed was intended to address a player returning to play for his own team, and not returning to play for another team. In essence, the PTB have been overly penalized by this rule, because not only does the money go back on their books, but they a) don’t have the services of the player in question, and b) have no ability to trade him (and his contract) away to another team.

It’s a long shot argument I think, but it is based in some sound logic.

Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.

by douglast on Feb 20, 2009 9:41 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Good job

Once we know what the cap hold will be for Portland’s 1st round pick, that will be added to the mix as well.

Right now, I’m estimating $1.099 million for the #20 pick.

by Storyteller on Feb 19, 2009 2:54 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

yep

I forgot to add that in this time, good catch. I"ll put a placeholder in for now.

Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.

by douglast on Feb 19, 2009 2:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You can renounce an exception?

I’ve never heard that before.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....

by pookeyguru on Feb 19, 2009 2:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yes, per Larry Coon’s site:

bq.
Teams have the option of renouncing their exceptions in order to claim the cap room. So in the example above, if the team renounced their Traded Player and Mid-Level exceptions, then the $10.5 million is taken off their team salary, which then totals $43 million, leaving them with $6.5 million of cap room which can then be used to sign free agent(s).

Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.

by douglast on Feb 19, 2009 3:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, and the Lakers with McKie for the Gasol trade

But it wouldn’t have to be Raef. It could be any veteran with the appropriate number of years in the league who has not yet formally retired.

Brandon is one of those quiet assassins. - Chris Paul

by Norsktroll on Feb 19, 2009 3:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

$9.5M for Frye?

As much as I love the guy, cut him or let him go!

"Respect everyone, fear no one." -TP

by Arby on Feb 19, 2009 3:20 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

keep in mind

this isn’t how much he’s ultimately going to get paid, it’s just the number that will count against are cap until we resign him to a real contract, some other team does, or we let him go.

I think right now it is highly highly unlikely that he will be giving the qualifying offer this summer and hamstring our summer by that 9.5 million dollar figure. Expect him to become an unrestricted free agent on July 1.

Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.

by douglast on Feb 19, 2009 3:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

What is the likelihood that he will take less money to stay in Portland?

Is there any conjecture about that? I like him as a fifth big man (unless he can step up his game and be the fourth one). – Elgin

Since when do we need to ponder to froth? - jscot

by 22baylor on Feb 19, 2009 4:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Minimum salary for Frye

would be $884,881, as a player with 4 years of service in the NBA.

If it were a one year deal, it would count as $825,497 against the cap since the Blazers would be eligible for a bit of a ‘rebate’ from the league.

by Storyteller on Feb 20, 2009 9:28 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

very little

There was a cover story about Frye in the WW or Mercury a month or so ago, and there was a quote in there where he said (paraphrase): “Portland is where I want to spend the rest of my life, but not the next 5 years.” He wants playing time a lot more than he wants money right now, I think… and he’s not going to get any PT here. So as much as I love the guy I seriously doubt he’ll be a Blazer next year.

by c'est bon on Feb 20, 2009 12:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And this whopping 5 to 8 mil in cap space

will bring back something better than a 12 million RLEC trade deadline deal? I’m skeptical.

Koponen - PG of the future. For Italy, that is. Book it.

by Blazerholic on Feb 19, 2009 3:25 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

did you read the final paragraph?

Will it? I don’t know, I’m not psychic.

Can it? Absolutely, yes it can.

Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.

by douglast on Feb 19, 2009 3:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

5 to 8 million

Plus Outlaw’s 4 million, and Sergio’s whatever-he-makes, yeah… it can get as much as RLEC could.

To a team looking to cut costs, we’ll be able to absorb a big salary and they only get 1 or 2 small ones back. Once you’re closer to the draft people start falling in love with people they wanna draft too, and we got a ton of picks to deal with as well.

If we were over the cap by a fair amount, then not using RLEC would probably be a failure. Take the Cavs for example— they got Wally Z’s expiring deal and aren’t doing a thing with it. If Vince Carter was as free as they say, he wouldn’t hurt the already dominant Cavs I’m sure. Now the trade deadline is past, they didn’t use the expiring deal, and all they get is to save some money next season.

Us, on the other hand, get to be under the cap because of letting RLEC expire, which gives us the same benefits of having RLEC in the first place— being able to trade small contracts to a team that wants to cut salary, and be able to absorb that salary. Instead of using RLEC to MATCH salaries, we just use the cap space as a buffer.

For all of the end of the world talk that was going on, it really isn’t all that different than before.

Can it get a better deal? Who knows. It can, for sure, get an equal deal, if a deal ever existed.

Lotsa things can happen between now and the end of the season. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of us feel silly for thinking VC or Jefferson are what we needed to do well in the playoffs. I personally would love to have Gerald Wallace, but again… who knows what Charlotte was asking for.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Feb 19, 2009 3:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

exactly

and Sergio, Blake, and Travis will all be 2010 expiring contracts, so if a team wants to trade a $14 million dollar guy and end up with nothing on their cap in summer 2010, there you go

Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.

by douglast on Feb 19, 2009 3:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Teams are going to be even more desparate

next trade deadline since the summer of 2010 will be so close. Everyone will want to off their salaries at that point, and I’d bet even better players will be on the market.

by as11osu on Feb 19, 2009 3:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That...

and we’ll have a better idea of what we have and what we need at that point. All these things are positives. KP listens well. If you can’t sucker one of these teams out of a Bosh type guy, we’re better off waiting.

by as11osu on Feb 19, 2009 3:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, there actually is a difference

to a team that is in luxury tax territory this year – if RLEC could have gotten them out of that tax.

We can take back a salary next year, but that may or may not be as attractive as saving money this year…it’s a gamble.

I’ve maintained all along that the Blazers are banking on getting Miles back off the books through appeal. In that case, they make out big this summer, but again its a gamble.

Koponen - PG of the future. For Italy, that is. Book it.

by Blazerholic on Feb 19, 2009 3:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If Portland appeals Miles contract

the league probably would not make a ruling on there decision until after the finals. Thats mid June. The way Stern treats small market teams he could hold up any decision until mid July by that time Portland would be chasing leftover fa’s, and any team panicking about dumping salerie in a trade will probably already have done so.

I try to help with everything," Fernandez said. "If the coach says go rebound, I go rebound. I work for the team.

""If I'm playing this game to get media and attention, I shouldn't be here," Aldridge said. "I'm here to play basketball, and do what I can do to help this team win."

by Dragonage on Feb 19, 2009 4:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

"Chicago instead will look to move Hinrich this summer, when his trade value will be higher, the Bulls believe."

Everybody thinks the summer is better :)

Brandon is one of those quiet assassins. - Chris Paul

by Norsktroll on Feb 19, 2009 3:54 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

The only thing I'm wondering about

RLEC was partially insurance paid and was worth $12 million in cap space + $5 million or so(not sure about the math for 30 games) in $‘s saved this year. We’re going to end up with 5-8 million dollars in cap savings for another team. Is the economy going to be so much shittier that $8 million in savings in July is going to seem better than ~$17 million in savings before.

Of course since the cap is lowering and panic hasn’t set in with the owners yet this may be true. I’m just not sure we’ll be able to get the deal we want if we want to deal.

by boppitywop on Feb 19, 2009 3:55 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

That's the thing I have a hard time seeing

Now e.g. Canzano points to Outlaw as our trade bait:
http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/john_canzano/index.ssf/2009/02/as_blazers_stand_pat_outlaw_ne.html

What player not available right now exactly are we going to get for Travis and pieces and $6.5 million in cap space (I assume that will be the number), when the owner could have paid much less already now by taking on the same player and Raef’s "super expiring contract"? Wallace again? Deng? Granger? Josh Howard? I have a hard time seeing that at the moment.

Brandon is one of those quiet assassins. - Chris Paul

by Norsktroll on Feb 19, 2009 4:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

if the incentive was to clear cap space (and dollars) for 2010 and beyond, that incentive won’t really have changed much. Let’s say Milwaukie really wanted to dump the last 2.5 years of Jefferson’s contract now, you can sure as heck bet they are going to want to dump it just as much (if not more) this summer when they need to sign Sessions and Villanueva to new deals. If anything, they are going to be more desperate, because they could be under an owner mandate that says they can’t sign those new deals until something is down to lower their obligations into the future. Enter Portland, who can take Jefferson’s remaining 19.2 million over 2 years and send back Outlaw’s 3.6 and Blake’s 4.0 over 1 year. That’s 11.6 million in actual cash savings, not counting any luxury tax saving Milwauikie may get by doing the deal. yeah, they didn’t get the $5 million in insurance savings, but they still need to do the deal. And now they need to do it even more.

This is just one example.

Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.

by douglast on Feb 19, 2009 5:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

and of course

the other play is that players who were NOT on the market right now (playoff contending teams) might be on the market this summer. Maybe one or more of those players ends up being a much better fit for us then the options we had now.

Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.

by douglast on Feb 19, 2009 5:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

good point

there are a few more teams that will be in the market this summer. I’m guessing Houston, Phoenix, New Jersey, Detroit and maybe Dallas may be getting ready to blow up and go younger, Plus Utah needs to figure out what to do with Boozer and may be trading pieces(although probably not to a conference rival)

by boppitywop on Feb 19, 2009 7:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't forget

that some of the guys we seem to be most interested in will be off their sticky base year compensation rules.

"I'm a buffet of goodness."

by TP43 on Feb 19, 2009 5:41 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

The most surprising find if you list it now against the expected cap is that with all the cap holds and exceptions you have to figure in, the "big cap space" that was rumored even after the Miles comeback was just a myth

The league office currently projects the salary cap to be 57.3 million as per their memo and David Stern’s announcement over the All-Star weekend. With the MLE and BAE and the ca. 3 miliion TPE from the Diogu deal we would be over that. Even if we renounce those exceptions and Channing (which I’m not sure KP is willing to do), it wouldn’t be much more than the MLE at ca. 6.5 million. That would provide a bit more flexibility in trades, but less in total than keeping those 3 exceptions. Not a very rosy outlook, unless they find a way to appeal Darius coming back on the books.

Brandon is one of those quiet assassins. - Chris Paul

by Norsktroll on Feb 19, 2009 7:31 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

That is not worded very well, but yeah it’s not much flexibility with either $6.5 million in cap space or the exceptions.

Brandon is one of those quiet assassins. - Chris Paul

by Norsktroll on Feb 19, 2009 7:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

How is it possible that $6M in cap space this summer will bring us more than a $13M expiring contract right now? All it means is that in order for a deal to get done we will have to trade more players to get the same deals we could have gotten today.

I think KP is vastly overvaluing the guys he has (cough Batum cough) and was afraid that they would go on to stardom elsewhere. He has yet to make the mental transformation from “acquiring assets” to “building a championship team.”

by AndrewD on Feb 19, 2009 8:46 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

That's what I've been saying, but no one is listening.

I’d like to know if the rumors were true that deals didn’t get done because KP was holding out for too much (a draft pick or Ramon Sessions for example). Now people are talking we give up to players for one. No draft picks, no additional players.

I have never doubted KP until now. If KP pulls something off this summer, I will never doubt him again.

Makes me wonder if he was directed to take the payroll savings by PA.

Koponen - PG of the future. For Italy, that is. Book it.

by Blazerholic on Feb 20, 2009 1:01 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Todays move says alot

The association essentialy said they want to stick with their top 10-12 guys. Any of these players with expiring contracts(Travis, Steve, etc) will stick around, if they want to. I know this because contracts like Outlaw’s and Blake;s would have been far more valuable in a recent trade, rather than freeing up cap in the summer. Think more like a manger, and look further into the future. No big moves will be made in summer 2009, and no major pieces will be lost in 2010.

by Twin Lakes on Feb 19, 2009 8:55 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

The Blazers are the Devil Rays of the NBA

The Blazers will most likely be in the Finals.

"I determined early in my career, the only important statistic in basketball is the final score." Bill Russell

by Dragline on Feb 19, 2009 9:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That's what worries me

Without a big move this team is simply not championship caliber.

by AndrewD on Feb 19, 2009 9:04 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I don't know about that

For the Blazer’s not to be championship caliber, several things have to be true.

1. Brandon Roy has peaked.
2. Greg Oden does not develop or is injured too much to go forward.
3. Not one of Rudy, Martel, Bayless and Batum show significant progress and reach a borderline all-star status.
4. LaMarcus has peaked and never develops much further.

If any of the above things happen we will have a team with solid players at every position , top third of the league starters, and one all-star/super-star with at least 1-2 allstars at his side, and a bench with 3-4 players that would start on over half the teams in the league.

While we may not win championships that’s certainly the description of a championship caliber team.

by boppitywop on Feb 19, 2009 9:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

If all of those things happen to be false, the Blazers will be championship caliber for many years to come. The word dynasty comes to mind.

by Twin Lakes on Feb 19, 2009 9:37 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

2009 Free Agents

Complete list of 2009-2010 free agents

Restricted:
Marvin Williams
Raymond Felton
Linas Kleiza
Jamario Moon
Ramon Sessions
Charlie Villanueva
David Lee
Nate Robinson
Paul Milsap

Unrestricted:
Mike Bibby
Drew Gooden
Ben Gordon
Brandon Bass
Jason Kidd
Allen Iverson
Rasheed Wallace
Antonio McDyess
Ron Artest
Lamar Odom
Trever Ariza
Chris Wilcox
Andre Miller
Matt Barnes
Grant Hill
Shawn Marion
Anthony Parker
Carlos Boozer (player opt out)

Well, I could be wrong, but I believe diversity is an old, old wooden ship that was used during the Civil War era.

by RoyDrexler on Feb 19, 2009 10:01 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Canzano asked KP today on 95.5 what he thinks Portland will do during the off-season.

Would Portland go after a FA or make a lopsided salary trade?

KP said it would likely be a lopsided salary trade.

by parkinglotj on Feb 19, 2009 10:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

long shot

but if Milwaukie can’t get out from the contract of either Redd or Jefferson this summer, we may want to throw a contract offer at Sessions and see what they do. Word is they want to sign both him and Villanueva this summer, but don’t have the long term cap flexibility to do so.

Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.

by douglast on Feb 20, 2009 9:47 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

The Gilbert Arenas rule limits what Portland (or any team) can offer to MLE-level money, but why not?

by Storyteller on Feb 20, 2009 10:03 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I like Ariza

He is a great defender and tough, good instincts, we should get him off the lakers and on to our team. what is he SF that would be great.

"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein

by Garden of ODEN on Feb 20, 2009 2:31 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

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