Henry Abbott's take on Vince Carter

by T Darkstar on Feb 18, 2009 1:31 PM PST Comment 41 comments

You can read the story here.

If Portland does acquire Carter, then I'll assume that he's going to be a Walter Davis/Alex English type. If we don't, then I'll assume that he's going the way of Reggie Theus. That way, I can always justify the move/non move to myself no matter the outcome. This last less-than-24-hours is going to be a roller-coaster of emotional outbursts from everyone. Yelling, crying, melancholy, anger, exuberant joy. I can't wait for it to be done with.

Poll

Does this article change your mind on Vince Carter?

Yes, Now I want him on our team.

60 votes

Yes, Now I want him as far away from us as possible.

2 votes

No, I still don't want him.

60 votes

No, I've always wanted him on our team.

42 votes

Meh.

60 votes

224 votes | Poll has closed

2 recs | Comment 41 comments

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Comments

I agree

I’ve been really pinning over a trade for Prince or Carter for this entire season I’d love to see him in Red & Black.

by DephlatorMouse on Feb 18, 2009 1:34 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

great name man

loved that play

Blazer's fan since '84, Spurs fan when they are not playing Portland.

↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

by HurraKane212 on Feb 18, 2009 1:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Is it the play (opera)?

Or is it the character from The Tick?
Either way, nice choice!

by TheThinWhiteDuke on Feb 18, 2009 3:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

wait... a play?

I thought it was the tick.

The goal is not to be better, the goal is to be the best.

by ratbastird on Feb 18, 2009 3:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Just in case you're not joking

The Opera is called Die Fleidermaus (The Bat). It’s why Deflatermouse from the Tick is funny- it’s a pun on the Opera and a wink wink nudge nudge to Batman.

by TheThinWhiteDuke on Feb 18, 2009 6:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

vc would be an upgrade

i’d see us scoring alot more with the first group (when was the last time we jumped out to an early lead against a decent opponent??).
its just that trading Trout, Sergio, AND RLEC— in my opinion we’d be giving up too much to get one good guy and filler.

by mightyvan7 on Feb 18, 2009 1:41 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I think it makes us better

Its is essentially Carter for Travis (which is a huge upgrade) and Bayless picking up more minutes at the PG, which both will help us win a few more games.

I just cant help but wonder whether we could do better. Carter is a little old and I dont see him fitting in too well with the longterm plans of the team.

"Great Oden's raven!" - Ron Burgandy

by danevan on Feb 18, 2009 3:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

really?

I don’t think Sergio, Trout and RLEC is a bad price at all! VC is a major upgrade on TO and Sergio is barely ahead of Bayless in rotation. Sergio has had three years to show the Blazers he could fit in this system, no can do. He will be a successful player someday but I’m convinced it won’t be while he wears the red and black.

by The Natural ala Mode on Feb 18, 2009 4:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm trying not to be seduced by this line

“If the Spurs, Rockets, or Blazers get Vince Carter without giving up much,” he says, “they join the Lakers right there as the favorites in the Western Conference.”

Maybe we get the 2 seed after landing Carter….
Maybe we make the 2nd round….

Will we be happy with that next year when Carter is just a shadow of the guy we traded for?

"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"

by Magnum on Feb 18, 2009 1:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

yup

because we’ll be grooming Nic and Martell for one of them to be the eventual starter anyway.

by c'est bon on Feb 18, 2009 1:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

In that case we should just let Nic or Martell get the minutes—they’ll be a better player when we’re actually a contender.

by wepto on Feb 18, 2009 4:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

But when Carter's contract is coming to an end we'll have another RLEC

but it’ll be VCEC and worth even more. That could be a HUGE trade chip in the future.

by SteveBlakeFan on Feb 18, 2009 4:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

great point

Vince would make a great bargaining chip next year at the trade deadline and he could help us make a playoff push this year. Wepto: You’re argument only makes sense if we do not make the playoffs this year. We will benefit far more if we can make a deep playoff push then if one player receives more playing time.

by The Natural ala Mode on Feb 18, 2009 4:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

about the "VCLEC"

I think I read somewhere that he has something in his contract that doesn’t make it as valuable bargaining chip as one would think. I just skimmed through it though so I don’t know exactly what it was.

by GhostFacePryzbilla on Feb 18, 2009 5:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

last year of the deal is only 4 mil guaranteed?

maybe that’s it

by two4larue on Feb 18, 2009 6:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I've been a Carter-to-Blazers advocate for a couple of years now

Living in NYC I see a lot of Nets games, and the guy still has a lot left. He’s game has steadily evolved, and I think it will continue to do so until the day he retires.

In Portland, there is no question his PPG would drop to like 16 or 17. But he would be an efficient scorer just destroying teams from the corner. He’ll either keep teams from crowding the lanes, or he will punish them.

This would be a familiar scene if Vince relocates to Portland: Roy drives, defense collapses, ball is kicked out to Carter, defense rushes to recover and Carter a) buries the open three, or b) drives past the sprinting defender and pulls up for a short, easy jumper.

With Bayless, Roy, Carter, Aldridge and Oden on the floor, who do you double team? Who do you leave open?

He defends, he passes, he scores, he rebounds. He’s overpaid, sure, but who cares?

by matthewcc on Feb 18, 2009 1:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

While I have not been exactly a proponent of acquiring Carter ...

… I have said that both he and Bibby are two guys that make a lot more sense as possible acquisitions than most of the names that get mentioned here.

Rudy’s play has made adding a 2 guard a bit more of a PT challenge, but I can’t help believing that nate can work some three guard luneups and playing each at the 3 at times, in order to get minutes. Carter gets Outlaw’s minutes, with Frye getting back in the lineup from time to time.

Henry’s summary makes Carter sound like a good possible move. I would guess the deal comes down to whether or not you think Carter has a couple of productive years left after this. A gamble for sure, but in the end, all it might really cost is money and not a hit on the core of the team.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Feb 18, 2009 8:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

great post by Henry

I would not complain at all if Portland landed VC as long as Roy/Oden/LMA/Rudy/Bayless/Batum/Joel remain Blazers.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Feb 18, 2009 1:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I would have voted differently if I had

read all of the options. I have always wanted VC to our team, but Henry Abbot just laid out a great logical argument. When most of my reasons before were just that he was totally awesome.

by Half Man, Half Amazing on Feb 18, 2009 1:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I buy all the arguments and think he's having a terrific season

but I just can’t get over my impression that the dude’s kind of candy-assed. I’d use a stronger term that’s synonymous to cats, but I believe that’s not really allowed here.

by howlingfantods on Feb 18, 2009 1:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

get over it.

Because that is not the case at all. Remember that he hates Kobe just as much as we do.Horrible Video, Hopefully someone has a better one

by Half Man, Half Amazing on Feb 18, 2009 1:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

doing a little shoving doesn't prevent him from being the player

most identified with the phrase “writhing in pain”.

by howlingfantods on Feb 18, 2009 2:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I thought that was his cousin?

by Half Man, Half Amazing on Feb 18, 2009 2:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

nope

413 hits
2620 hits

There used to be a sports blog that used to create “cartoons” — really just game photos with captions added, and they used to run the ones of vince carter rolling around on the ground surprisingly often.

by howlingfantods on Feb 18, 2009 2:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

ha

I think you meant to do it this way,. because Carter happens to be a lot more common of a name than Mcgrady

374

586

So you’re kind of correct.

However, he seems to get up from those injuries and continue to play as McGrady has only played in 34 more games despite having come into the league a year earlier…

by Half Man, Half Amazing on Feb 18, 2009 2:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

At least TMac gets real injuries.

Vince just rolls around on the ground whenever someone hurts his .

by howlingfantods on Feb 18, 2009 5:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

oh weird.

that was supposed to read “his ‘female sexual organ’”

by howlingfantods on Feb 18, 2009 5:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

hey

it worked for Paul Pierce

by two4larue on Feb 18, 2009 6:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

if the price is RLEC, Travis, Sergio, then...

it’s a no brainer. we give up none of our future, and make our present significantly better.

Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.

by douglast on Feb 18, 2009 1:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

+1

The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever

by Philthyanimal on Feb 18, 2009 2:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Sheridan on with Canzano earlier

Sheridan said Thorn takes a hard stand in trade negotiations and doesn’t back down.

Thorn probably wants Rudy or no deal

I can’t believe Carter is all KP’s got cooking right now. Hopefully it’s just a smokescreen and the “real” blockbuster deal will come from way out of LF

by two4larue on Feb 18, 2009 6:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

This trade is growing on me

Blazer Fan

by leeroyjenkins on Feb 18, 2009 2:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Meh for now, or what Cocoon (sorta) teaches us about Vincanity

I like the narrative being created around VC as a Blazer: veteran with a career as an incredible talent (and, let’s be honest, a loser) final finds a fountain of youth on a winning team. It’s like Cocoon without the old people sex. There are, of course, risks that the story won’t play out like this (even the geezers in Cocoon found that youth had its own problems), but that is true of any move (or movie). It seems like the Blazers are in the driver seat on one. They have what the Nets really want: young talent AND RLEC. So I am excitedly falling back on the “in KP we trust mantra.” My dream scenarios would look different, but if we land VC that means it was the best we could do. In other words, I see this as a worst possible scenario at this point. And if getting VC at this price is the worst, we are in a perfectly good place.

by unemployedreflection on Feb 18, 2009 2:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I've never seen Cocoon, but I know a great line when I see one...

It’s like Cocoon without the old people sex.

The cilantro in your tapioca pudding since 2007.™

by timbo on Feb 19, 2009 10:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think his age and contract would play big into a trade like this,

He has a contract that will expire in 10/11 season at 17.3mm, 2 years from now we would be talking about VCEC, and we will need it. We aren’t going to see the fun end of the draft for a long time. Pritchard has said any deal they make will not be for the short term, I think this would be looking at the long term, having this expiring contract 2 years from now to pick up whatever we need to finish of this roster. We get to win in the short term and set ourselves up for some big moves down the road. not my favorite idea but a good play none the less.

by monkeybones on Feb 18, 2009 2:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

contract status

Got this info from VC’s ESPN profile (Hollinger tab)

2007-08 season: Rod Thorn hasn’t made many mistakes while running the Nets, but this might have been one of them. Giving Carter a five-year deal worth at least $66 million isn’t looking so hot after a season in which he appeared visibly less explosive and, at age 31, seemingly started on the inexorable road downhill…

…2008-09 outlook: One of the interesting dilemmas in the Nets’ rebuilding project is what to do with Carter. He’s under contract for three more years plus a partly guaranteed fourth, but he’s 31 and showed signs of decline last season. Given those parameters, he’d be much better suited for a veteran team trying to get over the hump than for one like New Jersey that’s essentially decided to lay low until 2010.

My gut feeling is…let San Antonio or Houston have him. But if KP acquires Carter, maybe Justin Kubatko knows something the rest of us don’t

by two4larue on Feb 18, 2009 2:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Not Carter, just a smokescreen

Portland wants to stretch out its competitors, and meanwhile swoop in and land Jefferson and Luke Rid:

RJ Moving?, The Former Captain, Trade Clock Ticking
By FRED KERBER

DALLAS – A trade that could occur involving an old Net, Richard JeffersonRichard Jefferson , would take the NetsNew Jersey Nets out of the running with one potential Vince CarterVince Carter suitor, the Blazers.

Sources say Jefferson and Luke Ridnour likely are headed from Milwaukee to Portland for a package including Raef LaFrentz’ expiring contract and Travis Outlaw, two components that were part of a proposed Nets deal.

http://www.blazeoflove.com/2009/02/richard-jefferson-and-ridnour-on-move.html

by blazer91 on Feb 18, 2009 3:02 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Keep Vince Carter

He’s 32, declining, and doesn’t fit the timeline.

The Blazers have, on the active roster, as a team, zero playoff experience. None.

We’re not a championship team this year. We’re probably not one next year. By the time we are, Carter is of no use to us.

In terms of their utility to us, Butler > Jefferson > Carter.

We won’t get Butler (and after he intentionally injured Roy, that’s probably just as well), but Jefferson could possibly work.

by baduk on Feb 18, 2009 3:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

The more I think about Carter, the more I like it....

The biggest knock on getting Carter is his age. If you really think about it, getting a guy with 2 or 3 good years left makes a lot of sense if KP considers either Batum or Webster a future starter. Getting a player like Wallace who is entering their prime is going to want to get consistent starter minutes for several years. That is fine if KP is sure that Wallace is going to be a better option than Batum or Webster for a long time. Carter however, is going to start the down slide of his career, which can hopefully be countered with the upswing of Webster or Batum’s career. It think it works out quite nice actually. Carter gives you a big boost this year and you slowly ease his role and minutes over the next 3 years as he starts to show his age.

The biggest factor for me is the “what if” scenarios.

What if Carter bought into a lesser offensive role for a very good team?
What if Carter bought into Nate about defense like Lebron and Kobe did for team USA?
What if Carter bought into doing whatever was needed to win a ring?

If the answer to all three of those questions is no, you still get a pretty good upgrade at the small forward position. If all three of those answers are yes, the sky is the limit in my opinion. It seems like a low risk/very high reward situation to me…

RUDY > MJ

by myemic23 on Feb 18, 2009 5:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I don't care what the stats say

Everytime I’ve watched Carter in crunch time, he’s hoisted up fadeaway jumpers instead of taking it to the hoop. And his team has generally lost. The guy is a great talent, but he’s ultra-expensive and near the end of his career. I just don’t see this deal happening.

"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla

by hurryup09 on Feb 18, 2009 6:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs