Blazers at the Turn, Via Hollinger
I did a little stats work over the weekend, using Hollinger's ratings. Some interesting comparisons, how the Blazers do vs the best and worst in the major categories...
(crossposted at LoadedOrygun...)
I started looking at the Hollinger stats before the Golden State game, because I thought it was a curiosity to see the fastest-paced team take on the slowest-paced one. As you can see, the range of possessions per game (what pace is) is only 11 from top to bottom. But there's still a noticeable relative difference between fastest and slowest, and those kinds of matchups are always interesting--run n shoot vs the 4-6, Earl Weaver's three-bloops-and-a-blast vs the immortal speed and D of the Big Red Machine, the fiery Connors vs the implacable Borg.
Well, we all know who won the actual matchup; Portland let GSW play at their pace and couldn't make up a game-long deficit fast or completely enough to win in Oakland (again). But is that the problem? Can Portland just not contain the Warriors fast pace, or is that just a two-game example of an otherwise unrelated problem?
What I did was to count the pace score for each team Portland has played, as either "winning pace" or "losing pace." For GSW, for instance, I put 100.3 (their pace rating) into the Wins column, and 200.6 into the Loss column (since Portland has lost to them twice now). Repeating that all the way down the list until there are 32 win scores and 20 loss scores, you then get a total pace score for each that you simply average based on wins and losses. If you want to follow along, here is the spreadsheet (MS Excel). Start with "pace."
In games the Blazers won, the other team averages a 94.1 pace. (Note this does NOT directly mean that the Blazers won by playing games at that pace; it means the teams they have beaten generally run their teams at that pace).
In games they lost, the team averaged a 94. 8 pace. Out of a range of 11, seven-tenths is a 6% difference. So you can suggest that the teams Portland loses to, indeed play a slightly more uptempo game. (Using medians rather than means, the difference is a smaller .35, both medians in the 96-possession range). But you can also say the difference is minimal, and roughly speaking the Blazers can play either style with equal aplomb.
One other way to look at it before we move on, is to simply compare wins and losses against the league, tiered by pace. Against the nine slowest-paced teams, Portland is 9-4 (.692). Against the middle 10, they are 11-7 (.611), and against the 10 fastest teams by possession? Just 12-9, or .571. Also note that they've played the most games against that group. I think the deeper analysis on pace shows the variation is minimal, but anecdotally speaking you'd have to say they do better when the pace is slower, the slower the better.
That led me to play around with their performance using some of Hollinger's other stats, but first I have to tell you: have you looked at how Portland ranks in the league on these metrics? It may shock you:
- Offensive efficiency (points scored per 100 poss): 2nd
- Turnover percentage: 9th
- ORR (Offensive reeb %) 1st, by a mile
- DRR (same, D-reebs) 8th
- RR (overall reeb efficiency) 2nd, .2 behind Boston
- EffFG% 8th
- TS% (factors in 3pters and FT): 8th
They're 15th in assist ratio and 18th in defensive efficiency, and that tells you a lot about the team--individually-based offense, porous D. But even those are just low-middle ratings. It tells you the Blazers are totally legit. They are essentially tied for the best rebounding team in the NBA, are roughly speaking the 2nd best offense, and protect the ball and shoot well. If you're talking about the elite third of the Association this year, over the first 50 games the Blazers belong in that discussion.
So, a quick look at some other stats; they're pretty much what you'd expect:
- True shooting pct of opp: 54% in wins, 55.1% in losses
- Off efficiency of opp: 104.1 in wins, 106.3 in losses
- Deff efficiency of opp: 105.9 in wins, 103.9 in losses
But again, viewed in the context of wins and losses by tier, you notice a pattern. One really sticks out: offensive efficiency. Against the 10 least efficient offenses in the league, the Blazers are a mighty 13-4. Against the middle 10, they are also 13-4...which means they must be shaky against the top 9 (Blazers are #2, remember), and they are: just 6-12 vs the usual suspects plus teams like Phoenix, Utah and Atlanta. The difference? All but Phoenix have a better defensive efficiency, most a LOT better.
Comparing defensive efficiency, the Blazers are 7-8 against the top 10, 10-8 against the middle (where Portland is) and 15-4 against the bottom. Interesting that with three fewer games against "the best" on defense, the Blazers have one more win than they do against the better offenses. I guess when they get outgunned, Portland's lesser defense can't save them--but they can outgun other teams despite good defense. Lesson: ATTACK!
And looking over their performance based on opponent's TS%, we see equal dominance over the bottom 20 of the NBA; 12-4 against each tier for a total of 24-8. If you can't shoot, you're not likely to beat Portland, apparently. Against the sharpshooting best 9 (Portland being among the top 10, as we said), however, the team is 8-12. Phoenix is the #1 deadeye shooting team currently; you see where that's gotten them I guess.
Which is a good way to close, with a disclaimer: none of these individual comparisons means anything in a vacuum. You can't necessarily say "Ah, Memphis is a terrible offensive efficiency team; we'll kill 'em!"...but toss in their middling defEff and poor TS%, and then maybe you've got a stronger case to make, beyond just wins and losses. It can perhaps explain why Phoenix and Golden State give the Blazers so much trouble, but why Boston, Orlando and San Antonio were beatable. And I'll close the closure by pointing you back at those rankings: Blazers are legit, baby!
10 recs |
26 comments
Comments
great breakdown
thanks! I love when people take the time to post detailed personal statistical analysis on BE.
by BlazersOrBust on Feb 17, 2009 2:17 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
This is awesome
Thanks, Joe. As much as I peruse all the various rankings and statistics, I hadn’t put them all together to make a cogent picture like this. I’m glad people like you are willing to do the work for my benefit.
< /war >
by Diesel10 on Feb 17, 2009 2:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Wow
Nice job, killer. That’s a breakdown baller style.
I think our turnover percentage was a lot lower a few short weeks ago… we’ve had a harder time taking care of the ball over the last month to 6 weeks.
For your dedicated work, I shall bequeath you a rec.
Give the man his "M"!!!
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Feb 17, 2009 2:53 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Hmm
The efficiency thing isn’t a shocker. We beat the teams that can’t score, but lose to the teams than can. Go figure. :-)
This is what I find the most interesting.
Portland is
11-7 (.611), Against 10 fastest teams by possession.
9-4 (.692), Against the middle 10
12-9, (.571), Against the slowest 10
Doesn’t thsi mean that we play best against the middle paced teams? I’m also curious as to the total records of each of those groups. If the good teams happen to be the slowest, it makes sense that we do worse against them. If the bad teams happen to be the slowest, something is definitely wrong with us doing worst against them.
Hopefully this is accurate though and not a fluke because we apparently have a lot of games left vs the middle 10, and very few vs those pesky speedy opponents.
by Zaig on Feb 17, 2009 3:50 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I think you read it wrong.
Against the slowest 9 teams, we’re 9-4
Against the middle 10 teams, we’re 11-7
Against the fastest 10 teams, we’re 12-9
Portland plays the best against slower teams. In general, it seems that the trend is that we struggle more the faster the game is.
< /war >
by Diesel10 on Feb 17, 2009 4:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely copy and pasted wrong.
And I guess I could look up the records of the Fastest 10, Middle 10, and Slowest 10 teams, but again that’s a lot of work.
by Zaig on Feb 17, 2009 7:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Offensive Efficiency
Time to continue my crusade against equating “X best offensive efficiency” as being equivalent to “X best offense”. Myself and others (jscot comes to mind) have commented on this at length (see recent post by jsnake), but the gist of the argument is that since our OffEff is inflated due to our insanely good offensive rebounding, it is disingenious in my opionion to say we have the 2nd best offense in the league.
As an exercise, I took all the offensive efficiency of all 30 teams, and adjusted for offensive rebounds, inventing my new stat “Adjusted Offensive Efficiency” or “True Offensive Efficiency”, take your pick. According to this new stat, Portland ranks 7th in the league. Still quite good, but hardly “the 2nd best offense in the league”. I think most reasonable people who have watched a lot of Blazer basketball this year would agree that our offense is most assuredly not “the 2nd best in the NBA”. 7th sounds about right, due in my opinion, largely to the individual 1 on 1 skills of many of our players rather than to any well-executed system of offense.
Bottom line is still this though: Offense good, defense BAD.
Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.
by douglast on Feb 17, 2009 3:52 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
good thing I didn't equate!
I purposefully said “roughly speaking,” because I recognize it’s not a true proxy. “Most efficient offense” is the best description, but I think there’s a qualitiative argument to be made about what “best” means in terms of offense. Most points per game? Most points per possession? Best offensive percentage? Something mixing in rebounding? I think overall, given its wide utility for derived ratings of the offense, it’s a reasonable statement to say they’re roughly the second best. Adjusting out offensive rebounds adjusts out some of the reason they are productive, right? Since O-reebs don’t count as an extra possession, the ability to get multiple chances is worth noting on the way to offensive performance. It’s part of the package, along with turnover ratio.
I mean, Phoenix may have the best “traditional” offense, but they’re dead last in turnover ratio—and that costs them points that need to be accounted for. If every team is given 100 chances and are judged on how many points they can legally get in those 100 chances, that’s a statistical leveller that really appeals to me. That’s always the bottom line on offense—get the most points you can, every time down.
I cheerfully submit #1 Offensive Efficiency is not a catch-all, ignore-all-else metric of offensive performance.
by torridjoe on Feb 17, 2009 4:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
we don't disagree at all
again, I don’t want to rehash old conversations here (look them, up, it was within the last week), but I think it’s the difference between statistics and reality. Statistically, Portland is the 2nd most efficient offense. In reality, watching it in real time, it is (IMHO) most definately not the 2nd best offense being run in the NBA.
Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.
by douglast on Feb 17, 2009 5:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
probably not
I think you’re exactly right, and in light of the fact that statistics are supposed to augment reality and not speak for it, I can’t realistically argue that they have the “2nd best offense.” They’re easily disrupted and seem to fly hopefully by the capricious flight of the ball sometimes. But nonetheless, you agree that it ’s fair to call it the second most efficient offense, and efficiency is a reasonable benchmark for “best”, at least as good as any other single property of that quality, right?
I’d suggest the disconnect between stats and reality is that the NBA doesn’t give each team 100 possessions and say “have at it.” It’s a good leveling tool, but an artificial laboratory. Generating possessions is always a good percentage play for total points, so that’s what’s missing. Portland’s efficiency has them come up short if they can’t get enough possessions to keep up.
Think of it like a boxer being best “pound for pound.” He’d still get his ass kicked by Mike Tyson, but given an equal battleground he’d be toughest.
Thanks for reading!
by torridjoe on Feb 18, 2009 12:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm...
I usually get grumpy when people try to bring out their own homegrown stat equations, but that actually makes sense.
Very nice, dougyfresh, very nice.
Out of curiousity, how exactly did you adjust for offensive rebounds?
Give the man his "M"!!!
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Feb 17, 2009 4:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
essentially
Offensive Efficiency can be arrived by taking a teams Points Per game, dividing by Pace (Possessions per game), then multiplying by 100.
I took PPG, divided by (Possession per game + Off Rebs per game), then multiplied by 100. It’s a shortcut that isn’t entirely accurate since some offensive rebounds are the type that are awarded upon missed first free throws when there is no follow-up rebound to contest (such as in the first of 2 FTs, or technicals), but if you assume that is relatively equal among all teams, it should be a rough approximation. I suppose if you wanted to carry it further, you could remove those from the equation, but you would be hard pressed to find the statistics for them in any kind of compiled manner.
Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.
by douglast on Feb 17, 2009 5:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I did something similar after the OKC loss
out of frustration, I needed an outlet. Basically just used pace and offensive rebounds to estimate the total number of “uses” (I defined as shots, TOs, or fouls leading to FTs) for the season, and then used that to get an estimate of our pts/100 “uses”. At that point, I had us ranked 7th, with the teams ahead of us being the usual suspects (LA, Cleveland, Phoenix, Orlando, SA, Boston, in that order) and just ahead of Denver and Utah.
Regardless, it seems we’re getting fairly decent shots, attributable to our high 3pt %, and also indirectly to our offensive rebounding (since most offensive rebounds lead to high % shots, a phenomenon that can’t really be controlled for without going into this a lot deeper). It let me forget about that game for a while, too, so double bonus there.
by Royster on Feb 17, 2009 6:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think this misses the point.
Offensive efficiency, incorporating the usual definition of pace, would be like saying the chances of scoring before the other team gets the ball back. In other words, an offensive rebounding would be sort of the opposite of a turnover; one gives you an extra shot at the basket before the other team gets the ball back while the other loses a shot opportunity before giving the ball back.
Therefore, the Blazers are efficient because they score at the second highest rate of their possessions (accounting for 3-pt shots and whatnot). Simply removing the Blazers’ rebounding edge moves it closer to finding the team’s TS%, which would be a separate measure of efficiency that doesn’t take into account the entire offense because it eliminates shot differential.
I think the argument that you want is that the Blazers aren’t actually playing at the uber-snail pace because rebounds deflate pace. I think that’s an easier argument to make than saying the Blazers don’t score a relatively high number of points per possession.
by poster on Feb 17, 2009 5:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Even if you filter that out
we still play at the 5th slowest pace in the league, controlling for rebounds, averaging 99.2 shots/TOs/fouls leading to FTs per game (as of the first OKC game). The slowest being New Orleans, followed by San Antonio. When you factor in that offensive rebounding often leads to quick shots/fouls, and the teams below us (Charlotte and Detroit, too) are awful offensive rebounding teams, I think it’s safe to say that in our normal offense, we’re still playing at pretty much a snail’s pace.
I calculated the leaders in this “adjusted pace” stat as GS, Indy, NY and LAL, so it seems to pass the sniff test, also.
by Royster on Feb 17, 2009 6:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
actually
I care not about pace (for this discussion). What Im getting at is that just though our offense is uber-efficient, that doesn’t make it a great offense, but rather that our efficiency is do in large part to playing low-risk (keeping TOs down), and crashing the boards hard (giving more 2nd chances). If you look at any one “use” to score (as defined above by Royster), we are in no way shape or form running the 2nd best offense in the league
Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.
by douglast on Feb 17, 2009 6:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
first time on the rec list!
I’d like to thank my parents for making me possible…sniff…
by torridjoe on Feb 17, 2009 4:23 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
congrats!!! :)
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out burns out farms and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
by faith on Feb 17, 2009 5:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I hate to say anything when you put a ton of good work into this,
shouldn’t that be .6% in paragraph 5, or am I putting my foot in my mouth here.
GO
THE TEACHER ......come into my classroom "THE PAINT" for some tutelage.
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"The rancor reflected in that remark I won't dignify with comment. But I'll address your general attitude of hopeless negativism." – Everett "O Brother, where art Thou?"
by Blazer1342 on Feb 18, 2009 12:03 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
My bad, I knew I should have read that again.
I see it was out of a range of 11.
I was thinking of the difference of the actual pace, 94.1 VRS 94.8 which is .74%, very small.
So looking at the difference between the two extremes, a fast paced team is putting up11 more shots than a slow paced team. Assuming a 50% conversion rate were looking at 10-12 points a game.
GO
THE TEACHER ......come into my classroom "THE PAINT" for some tutelage.
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"The rancor reflected in that remark I won't dignify with comment. But I'll address your general attitude of hopeless negativism." – Everett "O Brother, where art Thou?"
by Blazer1342 on Feb 18, 2009 12:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
right--.7/11
it’s just .7 being about 6% of the total range between fastest and slowest pace.
On a basic level yeah, it’s around 10 extra points a game, although it’s got to be affected by OEff and FT% a fair bit. I wonder where you put those shots for a fast paced team, too—do those kinds of teams typically bury you early and hang on, or try to kill you to open the 4th, say?
by torridjoe on Feb 18, 2009 1:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My thoughts, and this is totally a gut feeling,
is that they try to put up the numbers early. If they get that lead they can coast, which takes a lot less energy (because sometimes you can coast and maintain a lead). If they see the lead being cut into by too much, they try to turn it on again. I’m positive I could see Detroit doing this consistently a few years ago.
GO
THE TEACHER ......come into my classroom "THE PAINT" for some tutelage.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The rancor reflected in that remark I won't dignify with comment. But I'll address your general attitude of hopeless negativism." – Everett "O Brother, where art Thou?"
by Blazer1342 on Feb 18, 2009 1:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Shouldn't feel bad at all
If someone goes to that much work, it is a compliment to them to read it closely enough to pick up on little mistakes here and there.
At least, that’s how I view it when I do insane detailed stuff, and I want to get it right if I made a mistake, too. I don’t think Joe views it any differently.
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
by jscot on Feb 18, 2009 5:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No, I demand 100% ass-kissing
sorry, there is no room to actually JUDGE my work; I expect only reading and immediate supplication. :)
by torridjoe on Feb 18, 2009 10:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

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