Hire Terry Porter
by Ben. on Feb 15, 2009 4:22 PM PST
112 comments
According to Paul Coro and Yahoo!, The Notorious K.E.R. has officially left TP30 out to dry.
Phoenix Suns officials were meeting with Alvin Gentry on Sunday afternoon to finalize a agreement for him to replace Terry Porter as head coach, an NBA source with knowledge of the talks said.
Gentry, the Suns' lead assistant who has previously been a head coach with the Los Angeles Clippers, Detroit Pistons and Miami Heat, will take over for at least the remainder of the season.
The Suns expect to formally announce the coaching change Monday.
Phoenix Stan, who was all over Porter's demise for weeks (months?) also tossed this out...
Also hearing Monday or sooner an Amare to Bulls trade will be announced possibly involving Dudley and Amundson with Drew Gooden and Tyrus Thomas coming back along with another player.
If I was Phoenix (and Chicago... and Portland), I'd be looking to do this simple 3 way trade with picks thrown around instead. Assuming Portland doesn't have a better offer on the table for RLEC, of course.
-- Ben (benjamin.golliver@gmail.com)
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But that trade
Doesn’t get us anymore wins according to Hollinger!
That’s rough for Porter though. He got stuck with in a situation to try and change from the most fun team to play on in the league, to a team that plays defense and works the half-court. I think he’s not the greatest coach, but he is certainly a victim of circumstances here.
by usdblazerfan on Feb 15, 2009 4:30 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Love the trade
It is right along the lines of what I have been thinking the past couple days, with all of the Amare talks.
by TimG on Feb 15, 2009 4:35 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I don't get it. If, as according to Hollinger, it doesn't make us better why do it.?
Why wouldn’t just RLEC be enough?
Would the Blazers have a place for TP on the staff? He seems like a Portland guy anyway.
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
by annthefan on Feb 15, 2009 4:39 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Thats a waste of a trade
All that hard work on the cap, and getting only Hinrich. Talk about the ULTIMATE let down. Ben… you can do much better… and probably without trying.
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 4:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
its hard to know what offers kp is actually getting for RLEC. im in the camp that RLEC should be moved and the roster should be touched as minimally as possible when doing it. hinrich is not ideal but i dont think we can get butler for rlec. im not sure (but hope) jefferson is acquireable for RLEC. if we walked out with that trade it would be a solid but unspectacular move. hinrich clearly needs a change of scenery.
by Ben. on Feb 15, 2009 4:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
another option is deng instead of hinrich but deng’s BYC makes it more complicated. id do that before i’d do hinrich but chicago might not. hard to say.
frankly if kerr does any of these moves he’s getting fleeced hard.
by Ben. on Feb 15, 2009 4:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you can get Deng and Hinrich
if you add Outlaw to the deal
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=c9he9f
it just depends how badly Chicago wants Amare, and how desperate Sarver is to shed salary. KP can use draft choices and PA’s money to sweeten the deal
by two4larue on Feb 16, 2009 12:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Who cares what Hinrich needs...
The Blazers needs matter more to me. RLEC should fetch a lot more than Hinrich, especially if they’re packaged with other talent (Blake, Trout, Sergio, Frye, etc). If you take on Hinrich’s god awful contract, you better at the very least be getting someone like Luol Deng or a 1st round pick along with it. PHX should use us in a more productive way than that, because we can provide them with more assets they desire, and our needs our much easier met given Amare as the chip being moved. A three team deal is ideal. I don’t understand why Detroit, given their recent struggles, isn’t talking louder. Us getting Tayshaun and Maxiell, them getting Amare, and PHX getting all the added benefits of both teams spare parts (draft picks + young talent + expiring contracts), just makes too much sense from every side. If Kerr is going to stake his claim on Tyrus Thomas this will be his last move as GM. What a pitiful run that would’ve been.
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 5:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
hinrich’s deal isnt great but it’s not as bad as you make it sound. he’s a better point guard than blake and hinrich/bayless is a clean duo at the one going forward.
the more assets we send to phx the more we need coming back. say you bring deng back in the ideal situation, which other contracts on those teams make it work and make sense for us?
at this point i don’t think detroit is a player for amar’e.
agreed about kerr’s side of things.
by Ben. on Feb 15, 2009 5:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree about the contract
It actually gets smaller every year… and if we do this trade, he is our starting point, and less than 10 mil is a reasonable amount to pay for a starting PG.
by TimG on Feb 15, 2009 5:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Getting smaller every year is the wrong order
The only year that matters is year 1. We’re not going to have cap space any other year, and thus, it doesn’t matter what he’s going to be making any of those other years. Kirk’s shot isn’t great anymore, his quickness is diminished since earlier in his career, and will continue to go down as he ages. He’s currently not aging very gracefully is he?
He’s simply not worth losing all our cap flexibility for, and he certainly isn’t worth giving up extra assets on top of RLEC. Poor trade.
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 5:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That is the most realistic trade machine I have ever seen.
Hinrich would be perfect on the Blazers. It’s a nice bonus that you could play Hinrich and Bayless together without giving up much defensively. You couldn’t do that with Blake or Sergio.
by Nick Van Excellent on Feb 15, 2009 7:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Feel free to watch the games
Bayless still gives up plenty of freebies…
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 8:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We do agree about Jerryd Bayless' tendency to often make poor reads defensively.
by AK1984 on Feb 15, 2009 9:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you notice that the kid is a rookie who has only been getting real time for about a month and a half?
Of course he makes mistakes. Does that mean he is a lousy defender? No. He has the strength the lateral quickness and the tough nosed attitude to be good. He needs time. Getting Hinrich seems like a reasonable way to buy that time. In a year or two Bayless will be our starter and Hinrich would be an excellent, if expensive, back-up.
by upper left corner on Feb 15, 2009 11:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Did I say he wasn't a rook?
He may be a good defender some day, but he’s definitely not one right now, and he definitely wasn’t one in college. Hinrich seems like an awfully expensive downgrade offensively, and an awfully expensive 2 year gap option, when we’re not REALLY in our window anyway. I’ll take 26 year old Sergio over 32 year old Kirk anyday. One will be getting better for 4 years, one will be getting worse. One fits our second unit perfectly, the other won’t fit either unit as well as the players we have now (Bayless 1st unit eventually).
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 11:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He isn't that much better than Blake - not enough
They are very similar, actually. Either can direct unselfishly, or play off the ball and hit the three. Hinrich is a better defender, but still not good enough to stop better PG’s in the West.
by hoopla-pdx on Feb 15, 2009 11:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i'm not sure about rlecs value
but i’m also in the same camp you are. we are playing great right now…i don’t want to take a risk making a trade which could disrupt our chemistry when we can sit tight and see our players grow at their own pace. i’d love to move rlec and some filler pieces however.
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Feb 15, 2009 10:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Kirk Hinrich would bring some much-needed perimeter defense with him to the Portland Trail Blazers.
That, without a doubt, is why acquiring him for Raef LaFrentz’s heavily insured expiring contract is worth it, even though there are fair concerns about his mediocre shooting percentages and sizeable deal. As it is, though, Hinrich’s outstanding perimeter defense negates those potential drawbacks.
by AK1984 on Feb 15, 2009 5:04 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I'd like to pair that deal with the following trade proposal, too.
FROM MINNESOTA & TO PORTLAND
SF Mike Miller ($9,128,575)
FROM PORTLAND & TO MINNESOTA
PF Travis Outlaw ($4,000,000)
PF Ike Diogu ($2,912,823)
PF Shavlik Randolph ($797,581)
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5011547
For the Minnesota Timberwolves, the organization could potentially save nearly $10 million next season — even though that would be contingent on Outlaw being waived sometime between the season’s end and 6/30/2009 — while also boosting its frontcourt depth right now, which’d help greatly in light of Al Jefferson’s recent season-ending knee injury. The T’wolves, however, would need to release a couple of guys to create roster space, although cutting Jason Collins and Calvin Booth wouldn’t hurt the team whatsoever.
For the Portland Trail Blazers, Miller would be the perfect sixth man — as he’d play roughly 32 minutes per game backing up Nicolas Batum at small forward — in Nate McMillan’s simple, yet deceptively effective offensive scheme. As it is, Miller has a history of being an efficient shooter from both outside and inside the three-point arc, crashes the boards fairly well for a wing player, and distributes the ball in a team-oriented manner.
by AK1984 on Feb 15, 2009 5:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
uck!
I’d rather keep TO
\
Being a Blazer fan is fun!
by Blazermaniac77 on Feb 15, 2009 8:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
After shipping out Travis Outlaw, Kevin Pritchard could sign someone from the NBDL ...
who could crash the glass and play defense — which aren’t traits possessed by Outlaw — with a guy like Richard Hendrix coming to mind. While Hendrix is labeled as a slow-footed, plodding defender in some scouting reports, he’s an absolute workhorse on the boards.
In a perfect world, Portland would employ a yeoman-esque performer at the backup power forward spot — such as Jeff Foster, who’d fit in perfectly on the second unit’s frontline next to Joel Przybilla — although occasionally you must play the hand you’re dealt by the dealer.
by AK1984 on Feb 15, 2009 9:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Foster and Przy huh?
I guess scoring points in your world isn’t necessary.
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 9:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd endorse Jeff Van Gundy as Nate McMillan's replacement, too, so take that ...
for whatever it’s worth when analyzing my basketball philosophy. All kidding aside, though, interior defense is of the utmost importance to me. That’s just my mindset.
by AK1984 on Feb 15, 2009 9:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That wouldn't be bad in conjunction with Nate's offensive philosophy...
That said, you can’t get mad when a ridiculous percentage of our shots are jumpers though.
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 9:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I've got a soft spot for efficient three-point shooters; it's the mid-range ...
jump shooters that bug me. That’s why I’d be down with a hypothetical duo of wings like Mike Miller and Rudy Fernandez on the second unit, since their versatility on offense would complement a defensive-minded frontline.
by AK1984 on Feb 15, 2009 9:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I've always kind of liked the idea of one of the bigs being able to hit the 3 ball
I think as a rule, you have to have a guy in there at all times that’s at least capable of scoring down low. I think Blair is my favorite possibility. Barkley-esque. Make sure to watch him tomorrow versus Thabeet.
I love me some 3 point shooters too, and Mike Miller is definitely on a short list of players I’d actually like to trade for. If you pair him out there with Rudy, you’d have that third guy be able to penetrate and score inside. I’m assuming you’re leaving that spot on the second unit for Bayless?
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 9:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's possible that DeJuan Blair won't be available to select when ...
the Portland Trail Blazers are on the clock with its first-round pick in the 2009 NBA Draft.
Yet, that notwithstanding, Kevin Pritchard should contemplate using a late second-round choice on one of the two power forwards I saw play tonight, Taj Gibson and Jeff Pendergraph, although that may be out of the question with Joel Freeland possibly on the way over here.
by AK1984 on Feb 15, 2009 10:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I really like Taj
He was a fabulous player his freshmen year, then struggled a bit last year. Gibson is a very very good post defender, and he has some legit inside moves. He just hasn’t been the #1 option for that team ever. His potential is pretty limited though. He’s probably not one of those guys that get a whole lot better than what he is today. All that said, I’m pretty excited to see what Freeland has become. He’s got the 5th highest PER (27.4) in the Spanish league right now. In Eurocup play he’s actually got the second highest PER (29.4). He ought to be an actual player in this league. The only players above him really at this point are for sure NBA guys, that have just chosen for whatever reason not to come over (Tiago, Fran)
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 10:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not really into the idea of putting much further hope into building via the draft
Apart from maybe a backup big role player or one or two guys stashed away in Europe.
Anyway, if the draft were held today the Blazers could have the following picks, if that is any help:
24, 34, 40, 54, 55
Have fun with that
Brandon is one of those quiet assassins. - Chris Paul
by Norsktroll on Feb 15, 2009 11:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
how condecending are you?
I know know we’re all just poor peons and all, but you can stop talking to people like their idiots any time now
Oderint dum metuant
by WhiteRabbit on Feb 15, 2009 10:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He understands where I'm coming from
If you have two interior players on the court at the same time that have no offensive game, that creates problems for the rest of your team.
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 10:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was talking to you
you’re not wrong, only irritatingly condescending.
Oderint dum metuant
by WhiteRabbit on Feb 15, 2009 11:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry that wasn't my intention...
AK is renowned for his “thick skin” as he calls it. I was just bringing up a basketball issue given those players.
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 11:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I can more than handle it.
Heck, I’m condescending in my own right.
At any rate, though, Jeff Foster isn’t entirey useless on offense — as he’s got a decent face-up game — however, you’re right that most of the scoring would need to come via perimeter players on the second unity with a frontline of Joel Przybilla and Foster.
Regardless, the thought of viewing Przybilla and Foster clean up the offensive glass on a miss and, in turn, kicking it back out to one of Mike Miller, Rudy Fernandez, or Steve Blake for another possession gives me the chills.
by AK1984 on Feb 15, 2009 11:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hinrich hasn't been anything special defensively in a long time
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 5:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's a lie.
KIRK HINRICH
Points Allowed Per 100 Possessions: 102.0
Net Points Allowed Per 100 Possessions: -9.3
Effective Field-Goal Percentage Allowed: 45.6%
Net Effective Field-Goal Percentage Allowed: -4.0%
http://www.82games.com/0809/08CHI3.HTM#onoff
STEVE BLAKE
Points Allowed Per 100 Possessions: 111.7
Net Points Allowed Per 100 Possessions: +3.3
Effective Field-Goal Percentage Allowed: 52.1%
Net Effective Field-Goal Percentage Allowed: +2.7%
http://www.82games.com/0809/08POR1.HTM#onoff
That’s an inarguable upgrade.
by AK1984 on Feb 15, 2009 5:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sergio also destroys Blake in this category.
Lets upgrade to him with the same logic. It won’t cost us a plug nickel. Let alone $40 million plug real dollars.
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 5:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's another lie.
SERGIO RODRIGUEZ
Points Allowed Per 100 Possessions: 107.7
Net Points Allowed Per 100 Possessions: -3.5
Effective Field-Goal Percentage Allowed: 48.8%
Net Effective Field-Goal Percentage Allowed: -2.7%
http://www.82games.com/0809/08POR2.HTM#onoff
Kirk Hinrich sweeps Sergio Rodriguez across the board.
by AK1984 on Feb 15, 2009 5:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Poor reading skills
Your comment
Kirk Hinrich sweeps Sergio Rodriguez across the board.
My comment
Sergio also destroys Blake in this category.
There is no doubt Hinrich is better than what we have, but that says very little about Hinrich himself. Just that he’s not bad.
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 5:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Man, my reading comprehension skills are garbage.
I apologize for being a, well, complete and utter doofus.
by AK1984 on Feb 15, 2009 5:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I have experience on both sides of this matter
Don’t you think it’d be a better use assets if we go after the guy we ultimately want at PG, not just some fill in for 2-3 years? Kirk just doesn’t fit our window very well.
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 5:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He fits our window perfectly.
Any younger and he’s not a real asset as a veteran. Any older and he won’t be a capable player in five years.
Remember, Nash was in his 30’s when he won both of his MVP awards. Andre Miller had his best years after 30. Billups wasn’t a super valuable PG until he got older. Heck, Blake wasn’t even considered a legit starter until last year.
Twenty eight is NOT old for a PG. That’s about the age that point guards start to enter their prime.
by Nick Van Excellent on Feb 15, 2009 8:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
People think we need to get 5 starters that are all 23 or 24 so we can have those five guys for 15 years. That’s just not necessary. Hinrich fits our window just fine, he’s goign to continue to play well into his mid thirties, so he has a lot of time left.
by TimG on Feb 15, 2009 8:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Continue to play well?
have you watched the Bulls at all the last two years?
He’s more likely to be out of the league entirely than playing in the NBA at 33 or 34 years old.
I’m not saying a guy has to be 23 or 24 for us to snag him up, but what we’re planning for here, is to be a Championship caliber team in 3 years. Hinrich’s prime will have already come and gone by then. I’m against using assets that don’t help this team in 3 years. Any assets designed to produce more output this year and even next year at the expense of three and four years from now are IMO wasted. Lets face it, with the PHX debacle, we’re in the playoffs. That was the goal, and we’re almost certainly going to achieve. We don’t need to drop anything else in now, just so we can win an extra game in the first round. Give me that extra game in the Finals 3 years from now. That is not a 31 year old Kirk Hinrich, lets be honest about it.
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 8:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My family is from Chicago.
I have watched more Bulls games then I care to remember.
Not to mention no player in the league improved as much or played as well in their later years as did Nash. The typical career arch turns around at age 28, it doesn’t get better.
That’s not really true for point guards.
Chauncy Billups, Steve Nash, Andre Miller, Derek Fisher, and Jason Kidd all had their best years after age 28.
by Nick Van Excellent on Feb 15, 2009 9:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry... Kidd's on the wrong side of that argument... Fisher borderline
You get Nash and Chauncey…
I’ll counter you with Bibby, Alston, Baron, Marbury and countless others that are no longer even in the league.
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 9:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry but that's just not correct.
Jason Kidd did not have a significant drop off in production until he was 34. His average PER before the age of 28 was 18.07. His average PER after the age of 28 was 19.11. The idea that point guards lose major production after age 28 is pretty baseless. In fact, Kidd’s Per remained consistently better than when he was 28 for the next FIVE years.
Jason Kidd PER by age
Age=PER
26= 18.4
27= 19.4
28= 19.1
29= 22.2
30= 19.7
31= 19.5
32= 19.2
33=19.4
34= 16.7
35= 17.1
by Nick Van Excellent on Feb 15, 2009 11:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
by Philthyanimal on Feb 15, 2009 10:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Its ridiculous to ever compare a player to Nash.
Especially Hinrich. There is no comparison. Nash had a PER of 23.5 as a 28 year old. Hinrich has a PER of 12.9. Not to mention no player in the league improved as much or played as well in their later years as did Nash. The typical career arch turns around at age 28, it doesn’t get better. You’re putting a very low max on the position if you give up everything for Kirk. Sergio has the 4th best PER for players his age or younger, and he fits our second unit perfectly. Bayless, if he eventually reaches even close to his potential could be the starter here, and quite frankly, might pass Hinrich over in the next 3 years. Getting Hinrich and ruining cap space is counterproductive to producing winning teams over the next 3-10 years. Getting better after 28 is the exception not the rule, you know that. Not to mention Hinrich already looks to be on the decline.
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 8:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
God no.
Porter’s a disaster.
Hinrich trade? Unexciting. He makes us, one or two better games a season at best? I’m not seeing that as a move that takes us over the top.
by howlingfantods on Feb 15, 2009 4:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I like your trade Ben
like you said, if there is nothing else going on for RLEC, then why not. Kirk >>>>>> Sergio, so it’s a no brainer. the only head-scratcher is how Hollinger’s stats don’t think this will improve our win total.
Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.
by douglast on Feb 15, 2009 4:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Hollinger hasn’t been the best at rating defense. That’s not really a knock on Hollinger because defense is almost impossible to rate with numbers. Bruce Bowen always has one of the lowest PER ratings.
Hinrich would at least be the second best perimeter defender on the team. Greg Oden would collect less fouls. Life would improve. I would scream at the TV less. I’m down with Hinrich.
by Nick Van Excellent on Feb 15, 2009 9:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
man aint that the truth
Anything that makes it easier for “big fella” to stay on the court so he actually, you know, develops is fine by me.
And after seeing Brandon and his ability to play off ball tonight in the ASG (yeah I know it’s a no “efense” exhibition, but with a guy who can create at least a little he can be that much deadlier. Hinrich isn’t the phenom setup man that Paul is, but he’s pretty good at it and quick enough to break down defenses
by nikolokolus on Feb 15, 2009 10:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Since when is Hinrich getting all these attributes assigned to his name?
He’s quick and can break down defenses? No. No he can’t. Feel free to look at his far from stellar good offensive numbers. He DOESN’T break down defenses. That is the thing he does not do. The way people talk about Hinrich around here, its like he’s the next Steve Nash with Gary Payton’s defense. It’s ridiculous.
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 10:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bayless
I’m curious about Jerryd Bayless’ production if we do that trade. It’d effectively move him into the third string on the roster, and I’m not convinced he would flourish as a backup two playing off the ball (not that there would be time for him there, with Fernandez logging the backup minutes).
Hinrich / Blake / Bayless
Roy / Fernandez /Bayless
Batum / Outlaw / Webster
Aldridge / Outlaw / Frye / Randolph
Oden / Przybilla / Frye / Diogu
On the other hand, given KP’s insistance on letting the cake bake, the deal would allow Portland to become more competitive now, more competitive in a few years, and still retain all of their developing ‘batter’.
by Samuelson on Feb 15, 2009 4:48 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
if hinrich comes, you let blake go at the end of the season and roll with hinrich/bayless going forward.
by Ben. on Feb 15, 2009 4:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hm, hadn't thought of that.
I just liked the notion of Blake as a savvy backup, but given Bayless’ upside, there’s a greater importance in developing him than keeping Blake on the squad to run the second unit.
by Samuelson on Feb 15, 2009 5:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There would be no reason to do that
We’d already be committed salary-cap-wise and thus, Blake at 4 million dollars per year equals an asset. You don’t let assets go for nothing. If you’re thinking like this, this Kirk Hinrich trade cost far exceeds its benefit. You’ve essentially thrown Blake, Sergio, RLEC out the door, destroyed all our cap room in one fell swoop.
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 5:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you shorten the rotation and turn an expiring deal into an upgrade at point guard. that’s a win. all of this assumes there’s not a better offer for raef. no one has put forth solid evidence we have a better offer than hinrich at this point.
by Ben. on Feb 15, 2009 5:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You're not looking at this like a GM
It looks clean, but just giving away an asset for cleanliness makes the team worse off. You gave away a huge chip in RLEC, Sergio and Blake for an overpriced PG on the downside of his career. It just doesn’t make sense.
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 5:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
we are going in circles here.
like i said we don’t know the real offers for RLEC. it seems like a huge chip but all that bluster is coming from portland’s side of it. if there aren’t other offers out there, what is the real value of it? it’s got an imagined value to it but we don’t know for sure what it’s worth to other teams? how many teams have really made cost cutting trades recently? i’ve got the kurt thomas and marcus camby deals. otherwise it’s just been a lot of talk so far.
sergio is not a long term fit here. never has been. he has next to no value for the blazers from a long term perspective. blake is not as good as hinrich. i like blake’s game and i really like his contract but he’s not taking us to a title.
gm’s look at acquiring assets and flexibility. our flexibility has been compromised. turning RLEC into the best asset possible is how a GM thinks at this point. if we can get r jeff or deng by all means do it. but getting hinrich for rlec would be better than doing nothing.
by Ben. on Feb 15, 2009 5:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sergio has been great on the 2nd unit here
and as long as Rudy comes off the bench with that second unit, Sergio has value here. In 3 years I’d rather have Bayless (23 y/o) starting and Sergio (26 y/o) coming off the bench than Kirk Hinrich (31 y/o) come playoff time. If you’re going to UPGRADE fine. But make sure its an upgrade. Also, the years that are most important to said upgrade are years 3-10, not 1 and 2, which we most likely won’t be winning a title anyway.
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 5:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
sergio has been better than expected but not great as a backup. rudy has acclimated pretty well by this point and sergio’s value in getting rudy to produce is only declining from its peak at the start of the season. the training wheels are off for rudy.
no one i’ve spoken with in the organization sees sergio as part of this team 3 years from now.
by Ben. on Feb 15, 2009 5:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thats a shame...
He has the 4th best PER of all PG’s his age or younger. You’d think that and his experience with Rudy, and his maturation as a player would mean something.
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 5:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
it does.
as trade bait… but you can’t see it when you have Sergio Rodriguez myopia.
MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)
by The Cactus Leaguer on Feb 15, 2009 8:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There is no myopia going on here.
Just a lot of people that don’t understand the curves of an NBA players career path and that players age. Hinrich = 28 years old, has gotten worse 2 straight years, already has maxed out – owed 40 million dollars.
Sergio = 22 years old – top 10 player his age or younger at the position – fits perfectly on this team – owed 2 million dollars
Sergio will be getting better the next 5-6 years. Hinrich has already declined.
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 8:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
a lot of people that don’t understand the curves of an NBA players career path
Again; Chauncy Billups, Steve Nash, Andre Miller, Derek Fisher, and Jason Kidd all had their best years after age 28.
by Nick Van Excellent on Feb 15, 2009 9:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry… Kidd’s on the wrong side of that argument… Fisher borderline
You get Nash and Chauncey…
I’ll counter you with Bibby, Alston, Baron, Marbury and countless others that are no longer even in the league.
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 9:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nope.
Jason Kidd PER by age
Age=PER
26= 18.4
27= 19.4
28= 19.1
29= 22.2
30= 19.7
31= 19.5
32= 19.2
33=19.4
34= 16.7
35= 17.1
He averaged a better PER for the next five years after turning 28. There wasn’t a drop off until he was 34.
by Nick Van Excellent on Feb 15, 2009 11:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If you don't count defense at all...
Kidd was a considerably worse defender as he got older. Also, feel free to take a look at WS’s as well. Its also very convenient how you went all the way up to 35 w/ his age, but don’t include his 25 year old PER. I like the way you work.
by as11osu on Feb 16, 2009 12:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks.
His PER at 25 was in the 20’s. So what? He still didn’t drop off until he was close to his mid 30’s. His average PER before the age of 28 was 18.07. His average PER after the age of 28 was 19.11. Hence my assertion that Kidd had his best years after age 28. At any rate, he didn’t have any success in the playoffs until after he turned 28.
Yea, defense is important. Kidd lost a little in his step although his rebounding and assist rates improved with age. His best rebounding average( per 36) happened when he was 33 and his best assist rate happened when he was 34.
Individual defensive STATS are unreliable but his DWS is still better at age 32 then it was at age 27. His DWS average is greater after age 28 then it was before age 28.
All in all it’s hard to argue that Kidd lost all that much after the age of 28.
by Nick Van Excellent on Feb 16, 2009 12:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I see that... his apex was 29.
I’d argue he was a better overall player before then, but didn’t have the talent around him. There’s no doubt his defense turned from actually stopping guys, to strictly focusing on rebounding. Also, later in his career he was forced away from defending PG’s. He and Jet are a nice match now.
by as11osu on Feb 16, 2009 12:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
potential 4 guard rotation
if hinrich comes, you let blake go at the end of the season and roll with hinrich/bayless going forward.
Hinrich/Bayless
Roy/Rudy
nice depth with a better balance of offense/defense then the current guard mx
by two4larue on Feb 16, 2009 12:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Blake is an asset at 4 million...
you don’t give assets up for nothing. If Hinrich is brought in we won’t have more than the MLE anyway, so keeping Blake and getting an MLE will be the best we can do (asset-collecting-wise). That’s why if there is a trade like this Blake better be outgoing from the get go, and we better get something in return for him immediately.
I too am for roster consolidation, but not just by getting rid of guys, especially with zero return.
by as11osu on Feb 16, 2009 12:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
the title of this post was ironic everyone…
by Ben. on Feb 15, 2009 4:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I don't want to take any chances.
After all, you did get that jersey number retired. I won’t underestimate your world dominating powers.
Although of course there was that one thing you couldn’t get our front office to do….
by howlingfantods on Feb 15, 2009 5:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Who in the world
has ever seen Kirk lock someone up on the perimeter?
by sPresley on Feb 15, 2009 5:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
*raises hand*
He’s made Dwayne Wade look pretty ordinary a number of times, and he does a great job of staying in front of his man and bothering their shot.
by nikolokolus on Feb 15, 2009 8:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I remember 24 year old Kirk Hinrich too
That guy disappeared a year later. Then REALLY hasn’t been around for the last two.
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 9:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I saw him do a fine job on Roy this year.
Roy vs Chicago (1/12)- 11 points, 3 assists, 8 turnovers
by Nick Van Excellent on Feb 15, 2009 9:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hinrich barely played that game... on Roy for even less
isn’t the point of Hinrich to defend quick point guards? Isn’t that the whole point… not forcing that onto Roy???
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 9:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hinrich guards one and twos
The Bulls frequently put Kirk on 2s because they have such a small backcourt, this immediately puts him at a disadvantage defensively … and Kirk did a pretty decent job bothering Wade just a few days ago where flash went 9-23 from the field, not just 5 years ago.
by nikolokolus on Feb 15, 2009 10:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wade is a starter...
Hinrich came off the bench… they barely saw each other, and when they did, Kirk was fresh. I love how Steve Payton/Gary Nash just keeps getting better and better. HoF watch out.
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 11:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Terry's better off out of there
The Suns were the coolest franchise in the league a few years back. If it hadn’t been for a freakish run of bad luck in that one series with the Spurs, they’d probably have won a championship. Then practically every team in the league would have been emulating D’Antoni’s 7-seconds-or-less offense.
Instead, everyone has copied the plodding, defense-minded Spurs, and the Suns have dismantled that great team to save money. You knew it was over when they unloaded Joe Johnson & sold the Rudy pick for cash. Trading Marion for Shaq was just the frosting on the cake. What a travesty.
Of course, as a Blazer fan, I’m glad about the Rudy part!
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Feb 15, 2009 5:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
As expected, it's all pointing to Amare going to Chicago
Talks between the Suns and Bulls regarding Amare Stoudemire have intensified, according to three people with knowledge of the situation told CBSSports.com.
Phoenix’s interest in working with the Bulls on a trade is because of their presumed increased desire to acquire Tyrus Thomas.
One rival executive familiar with the talks said Portland evidently is no longer an option
Brandon is one of those quiet assassins. - Chris Paul
by Norsktroll on Feb 15, 2009 7:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
yeah, i love that line…. “increased desire to acquire tyrus thomas” …. lol………………
by Ben. on Feb 15, 2009 9:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Steve Kerr is taking Isiah Thomas behind the woodshed
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 9:11 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Kerr will be out the door
any day now.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 15, 2009 9:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why Robert Sarver hired Steve Kerr baffled me from the get-go, especially when a damn ...
fine in-house candidate was and still is available in VP of Basketball Operations David Griffin.
by AK1984 on Feb 15, 2009 9:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why
is Portland no longer an option? I wonder if KP missed a golden opportunity here. He really could have dealt onward into our postional needs if we picked up Amare. Looks like no blockbuster for Portland just some ho hum deal. If it’s Hinrich I will weep. No offense Ben, but I’m not and never have been feeling the Hinrich trade. It may happen but I won’t be cheering if it does. I guess I can hold out hope for Butler, Jefferson and/or Sessions.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 15, 2009 9:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Suns are pretty desperate, but not so desperate that they don't want a good PF in return for their star player
Tyrus Thomas fits that bill despite a somewhat stumped development. Channing wouldn’t cut it, and I was never convinced KP would really give up LaMarcus. The only way Portland could get involved with Amare would be in three-team deals by providing Raef.
P.S.: A Chicago beat writer says league sources told him a firing of Porter would make Amare staying in Phoenix more likely than not and that no deal is done. We will see, but the All-Star game could very well have been his last start in Phoenix.
Brandon is one of those quiet assassins. - Chris Paul
by Norsktroll on Feb 15, 2009 9:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's a deal where Phoenix gets Tyrus
and Portland still stays in the middle of it
by two4larue on Feb 16, 2009 12:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
except for the SF logjam it would create
this may be the proposal where KP gets the most, while sacrificing the least
and he could toss a 2nd round draft choice to PHX and CHI to sweeten the deal and have 2 to spare
by two4larue on Feb 16, 2009 12:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
BlogaBulls fans probably would
Unless they really love Sergio as a backup to Rose?
But then, they hate all there players (not named Rose) so they probably wouldn’t complain about seeing HInrich, Deng and Thomas leave town…
by two4larue on Feb 16, 2009 1:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
for as much as I'm not a fan of Hinrich
I’m a gigantic Deng fan.
The did you know that no one expects… he’s basically Batum in the future. He’s younger than Rudy Fernandez and only a couple months older than LaMarcus. He’s shooting better than ever from 3, although he doesn’t shoot many, and he’s always been an elite defender. He’s big long and strong. Doesn’t get much better than him.
by as11osu on Feb 16, 2009 1:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
While I argue with Dave Berri's overrating of rebounds with regards to his Wages of ...
Wins model, I agree with him that Luol Deng is an overrated player. I, too, once liked Deng, but now I’ve seen the light.
Kirk Hinrich, on the other hand, is a different story.
Hinrich brings defensive fortitude to a postion in which that quality is a premium; therefore, his statistically average output on offense is compensated by superior defense. Deng, by the way, is nothing more than average on the defensive end.
by AK1984 on Feb 16, 2009 2:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
These days Hinrich longs for the days when you could call him
statistically average on offense. Deng is a better defender, is 23 years old, and will continue to improve. He shoots at a very good percentage for a wing player.
by as11osu on Feb 16, 2009 8:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bulls not feeling Amar'e either?
http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/57271/20090216/bulls_turning_to_kaman_and_camby/
Is giving up Tyrus too much? cough Gag… must maintain… straight… face…
Blazer's fan since '84, Spurs fan when they are not playing Portland.
↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A
by HurraKane212 on Feb 15, 2009 9:22 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
"If we have to put in an additional pick or role player, we can walk away. We have other options"
Paxon/Reinsdorf also trying to keep a straight face negotiating with Kerr. It would look silly if the just jump on it :)
I hope eventually they jump, and don’t blow it like the D’Antoni negotations where Reinsdorf insisted on setting up timetables and negotiation procedures over a weekend while the Knicks already waived with their checkbook.
Brandon is one of those quiet assassins. - Chris Paul
by Norsktroll on Feb 15, 2009 9:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
how likely is that trade?
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
by nima on Feb 15, 2009 9:37 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather let RLEC expire than take Heinrich
Just my gut feeling.
The ESPN article on dream trades teaming CP3 with Roy got me scheming:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=d7bdgg
RLEC / Aldridge / Outlaw / Rodriguez
for
Paul / Stojakovic / Marks
(Marks needed as salary filler)
Yes, wishful thinking . . . . rewinding to the 2005 draft.
put a body on 'em
by RayBourque on Feb 15, 2009 11:06 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
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