Saturday trade drawer please unrec obsolete
by Idog1976 on Feb 14, 2009 5:52 PM PST
173 comments
And so now without further ado a 4 team block buster that addresses the needs of 4 teams:
Phoenix:
Out:
Amare Stoudamire
Steve Nash
In:
Travis Outlaw
Sergio Rodriguez
RLEC
Marco Benelli
Ronnie Turiaf
Anthony Randolph
Ike Diogu
Let's face it all the reports say Phoenix is desperate. In the above trade PHX gets alot of young talent and some cap relief at the end of the season (15+ million). They basically blow up the team but have some nice young pieces to start building around.
Orlando:
Out:
Hedo Turkoglu
In:
M. Williams (pg)
Steve Blake (pg)
K. Azubiake (SF)
Orlando trades Turkoglu and gets a couple of Point Guards that they desperately need and a SF to replace Hedo. As a side note Blake is now near his family in Miami not a bad place to end up.
Golden State:
Out:
K. Azubiake
B. Wright
A. Randolph
Ronny Turiaf
M. Belinni
In:
Amare Stoudamire
Golden state gets Amare and gives up a bunch of minor pieces for it. They easily get the best of this deal and might need to throw more Phoenix's way such as cash draft picks and possibly even more players.
Portland:
Out:
RLEC
Steve Blake
Travis Outlaw
Sergio Rodriguez
In:
Steve Nash
Hedo Turkoglu
B. Wright
Portland gets the starting PG we need to open the window right now. We also get to test drive Hedo and resign him in the summer if he is a good fit. We also get B. Wright who has an excellent PER for a SF and could be the gem of this trade.
Thoughts? Show me your other trades this weekend and vote in the poll below!
6 recs |
173 comments
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Does this really need to be recced?
Rec’ed? Recked?
Either way, can’t people just talk trades in a normal sidebar post?
"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan
by 12sharks on Feb 14, 2009 6:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
And by ‘people’ I mean ‘we’ (myself included).
"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan
by 12sharks on Feb 14, 2009 6:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I suppose they can
I like to be in a consolidated trade talk area so I can see everyone’s ideas without going into 15 different posts.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 14, 2009 6:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess you’re right. I just didn’t think there’d be 9 more posts in the next 5 hours (to bury this post). Didn’t mean to be particular.
"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan
by 12sharks on Feb 14, 2009 6:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't worry. Your post owns this one.
"I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong." -Bertrand Russell
by TheTinfoil on Feb 14, 2009 6:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I love Brandan Wright
But I doubt those other teams go for that trade.
by as11osu on Feb 14, 2009 6:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I like it, but it's a lot going on
Simpler one for me, plus I want Hinrich…
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=c4225j
Premise 1: Phoenix wants cap room, and would give up Amare for enough of it, with nothing but cap space and picks in return (the picks give them the chance to get new players for very cheap without it affecting their cap this year).
Chicago gets:
Amare and Alando Tucker from Phoenix
Phoenix gets Drew Gooden from Chicago and RLEC, plus first round picks from Chicago and Portland (I havent looked up to see if they can be traded, but just include picks and cash considerations as sweeteners for Phoenix) Phoenix gets money from RLEC insurance, cash considerations, picks to add young players for cheap, and almost 20 million in expiring contracts, get 16 million off their payroll.
Portland gets Kirk Hinrich for RLEC.
I think it’s be a no brainer for Chicago and Portland. I don’t know if this is enough for Phoenix, but it’s a start. I’ve heard from all over the place, it seems, that Phoenix wants to get under the cap above all else, at all costs.
If there were a way to get SHaq off their books, I think it would make it more likely, but that’s a huge contract….
by TimG on Feb 14, 2009 6:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I'm assuming you don't expect the Blazers to play 4 PGs so what do you do with the excess
This is what Lucas would do. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0aPkIE2qK0
by 123_G.O._RipCity on Feb 14, 2009 6:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that's an issue
But one I think can be resolved pretty easily, on draft day or in the offseason. Blake has a team option, I think, so we can let him go, and the rest could be part of another trade in the future.
by TimG on Feb 14, 2009 6:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I like this trade cause you didn't trade anyone I want
But no one has yet to explain why Kirk Hinrich is so coveted. Why///???
by Blazersaurus on Feb 15, 2009 10:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Basically, experience and defense.
I think he would be that guy Brandon alluded to, someone who could lead the team on the defensive side of the ball. Hinrich has that plus experience—like, winning a playoff series experience.
That’s why I like him so much. I don’t think it’d be easy to see the difference he’d make, but I think he could make our defense much better very soon.
by TimG on Feb 15, 2009 1:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hinrich isn't anything special defensively.
He may be slightly better than what we have right now on that end, but that isn’t saying much. DEFINITELY not worth 40 million dollars over the next 4 years. Not even close.
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 2:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I totally disagree. Hinrich is MUCH better than Blake or Sergio defensively.
by TimG on Feb 15, 2009 2:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
For him to be worth that money and that investment
he has to be special on defense… and he just isn’t, especially not anymore. He’s also worse on offense, and would kill that 3 ball Blake’s got going on.
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 2:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We have to do something
We are 26th in the league in opponent 3p%. Blake hits threes at a very high percentage (this year)—but how much does he contribute to our horrible perimeter D?
by TimG on Feb 15, 2009 2:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm guessing our opponents don't shoot 43% from 3 like Blake...
but I could be wrong. No… I’m not wrong. Hinrich isn’t a great defender. There are plenty of better defenders we could get at the position that don’t totally obliterate our cap for the next 4 years.
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 2:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not a Hinrich guy
But I’m interested in who you think fits the bill as a defensive PG that is attainable right now.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 15, 2009 2:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
2 or 3 PG's that project around our first round pick...
Plenty of guys in the last two drafts… maybe our guys if we let them develop.
If you think Hinrich’s defense is average, like I do, then you could pretty much name anyone. The defensive Hinrich delusion that was alluded to on the last podcast by Dave and Casey basically some up my feelings on him perfectly. He hasn’t been great since his second year in the league defensively, and he’s progressing in the wrong direction, and even more drastically the last two years, as well as hurting himself offensively during that time as well. I prefer Conley Jr for the added Oden benefit. He’s improved his 3’s drastically this year as well. Its looking more and more like he can be a 40% shooter from 3 eventually as well, which puts him a notch overall above where most assumed he’d be. Oden gets comfortable, and will be willing to stick around for the duration of his career, being the unending bonus of adding MC.
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 2:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I dont think we should be drafting for our PG
by TimG on Feb 15, 2009 3:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think its more about matching abilities with what we need
Clearly its valuable for this team to get a guy that can defend QUICKER PG’s (Hinrich doesn’t fill this role anymore), and shoot the 3 ball. This year a guy like Mario Chalmers would’ve fit in real nicely, just like next year Collison looks to be a nice pickup. Jeff Teague might be a good one. Anyways, we get a younger player that fills our very specific need, we’ll have that guy, and his quickness all the way through our window. Hinrich’s 3 ball isn’t great, and his defense isn’t great. We can have a guy that will be great at both.
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 3:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree on Conley
people under value the benefit to Oden’s development and happiness which are interrelated.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 15, 2009 3:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Until Conley does something worth trading for
I cant say its a good deal. Travis is worth more at the moment
It was "mascot night" at the Rose Garden, which apparently translates to a dozen inflatable versions of various NBA mascots being chased around the arena by Portland's "Blaze", which is some breed of rapist dog. -PostingandToasting
by GreatOden'sRaven on Feb 15, 2009 7:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Blake shot 28% from three with Milwaukie
Until he cam to Portland and has improved considerably. Hinrich’s career numbers from 3 are similar to Blake, with far more attempts, and Hinrich is a little bit younger than Blake—why couldn’t he improve?
Blake shoots such a high percentage in large part because he choose his shots, and takes open, set threes, and doesnt take too many. That’s great for Blake, it works perfectin our system—but just as he benefits from that, so would Hinrich.
by TimG on Feb 15, 2009 2:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If you're willing to completely throw away all the cap space we've worked for
and for a minimal upgrade. Pass….
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 2:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Half the Problem is Nate's Old School Defensive Philosophy
Against NY, Nate told his players to pack the paint and force them to shoot over the defense. It is old school, pre-three ball defense. Basically sound, but it doesn’t do much to stop a team stroking it from the arc.
You’d think that as often as our perimeter defenders lose their man that they must be all up in their man’s grill. This team is seriously hampered with spotty individual, on-ball defenders. I love Trout, but you know that he is going to lose his man if he drifts out, and he cannot play post defense either. He has way too much talent to waste on letting obvious deficiencies like these remain in his game.
by LaoTzu on Feb 15, 2009 11:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I continue my streak
of posting this trade in every thread in which it is remotely relevant.
RLEC, Travis, Bayless/Sergio for Sessions, RJefferson, and filler.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b9r7vn</a>
The deal is altered slightly depending on whether the Bucks want Sergio or Bayless, and which contract they want to dump. We might have to throw in a second round pick or two as well, of which we have several hundred.
by samuelleejackson on Feb 14, 2009 6:29 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I like
it alot.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 14, 2009 9:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I like it a lot too.
Except I think it has no chance of happening. Sessions has become too valuable. He’s the whole reason why Milwaukee is looking to shed salary to begin with. They want to keep him without going over the Luxury Tax line. And might just be willing to sacrifice Richard Jefferson to do it.
If they decide that He isn’t worth it, then he gets traded by himself, or packaged with Charlie Bell, or someone else who isn’t vital. Not with Richard Jefferson. They’re not that desperate.
Current Titles:
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by T Darkstar on Feb 14, 2009 9:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not trading bayless
not a chance, not without lebron in the deal.
by lurtsman on Feb 15, 2009 11:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think we are going after D. Williams. The Jazz are vulernable.
Blast away.
I try to help with everything," Fernandez said. "If the coach says go rebound, I go rebound. I work for the team.
""If I'm playing this game to get media and attention, I shouldn't be here," Aldridge said. "I'm here to play basketball, and do what I can do to help this team win."
by Dragonage on Feb 14, 2009 7:18 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
link?
linky?
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 14, 2009 7:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Its obviously Caron that KP wants
I love me some Tuff Juice!!!
by Jiggamant on Feb 14, 2009 7:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I would prefer Young
The cake is a lie. Trade the cake!
by Norsktroll on Feb 14, 2009 8:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I would too.
But they ain’t giving up Thad.
by parkinglotj on Feb 14, 2009 11:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Let me clarify
The reason that Iggy would be available is because of Thad Young.
by parkinglotj on Feb 14, 2009 11:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
although apparently they play diff positions now
Iggy at SG and Young at SF…
according to the 76ers blog at least
It was "mascot night" at the Rose Garden, which apparently translates to a dozen inflatable versions of various NBA mascots being chased around the arena by Portland's "Blaze", which is some breed of rapist dog. -PostingandToasting
by GreatOden'sRaven on Feb 15, 2009 9:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
As they should
Iggy is a SG/SF, Young a SF/PF
Brandon is one of those quiet assassins. - Chris Paul
by Norsktroll on Feb 15, 2009 9:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I've been lurking in the Philly forums
It’s pretty clear that the fans think that both players are SF’s only. (I know they aren’t experts, but we’re not experts either and I think as a whole we’re pretty right.)
Sure Thad has played PF, but how many minutes will he get there next year with Brand healthy and Spreights needing minutes?
Iggy has played SG, but he doesn’t fit there either. He’s bigger than Martel and can’t shoot the 3 with consistency. He is an elite wing defender, but is a true SF that will attack the rim.
If Philly could get a great SG, the roster would balance out nicely.
by parkinglotj on Feb 15, 2009 2:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Looks like he sees himself as a 4 (PF) at least currently
But I think Young can play SF at least as well as PF. He could be a rich man’s Travis soon :)
Thaddeus Young
I play the 4, so all of them are hard to get by.
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-38-175/Your-Nightmare-Defender—Part-One.html
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-38-181/Your-Nightmare-Defender—All-Star-Sunday-Edition.html
(Great B-Roy quote in that one that I already posted in the Sunday game thread)
Brandon is one of those quiet assassins. - Chris Paul
by Norsktroll on Feb 15, 2009 3:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, I hadn't read that he thinks he's a 4.
I don’t see how he gets any minutes there next year though.
Philly can’t trade Brand, he’s coming off a bad injury and has a massive contract. I suppose they could trade Spreights, but I don’t see that as likely. He has been pretty good while Brand is injured. Some have suggested that Brand or Spreights could play some center.
I just think (wishful thinking?) that Iggy is the odd man out in their rotation as things go forward. They can (and should) get a very talented player that can shoot some 3’s. When they traded Korver, they lost the only deep threat on the team.
They other thing that was very obvious was how poorly both Brand and Iggy played when they were together on the court.
by parkinglotj on Feb 15, 2009 6:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What's with these terribly unbalanced, unrealistic trade proposals?
For once, I wish that people would put aside their homeristic bias and make plausible trade proposals.
by AK1984 on Feb 14, 2009 8:06 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I agree...
but, do you have one in mind?
by Oggbog on Feb 14, 2009 8:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, here's my pie in the sky idea.
FROM CHICAGO
PG Kirk Hinrich ($10,000,000)
PF Drew Gooden ($7,151,183)
FROM MINNESOTA
SF Mike Miller ($9,128,575)
FROM PHOENIX
PF Amare Stoudemire ($15,070,550)
FROM PORTLAND
PF Raef LaFrentz ($12,722,500)
PF LaMarcus Aldridge ($4,631,400)
PG Steve Blake ($4,250,000)
PF Travis Outlaw ($4,000,000)
PF Channing Frye ($3,163,769)
PF Ike Diogu ($2,912,823)
SG Jerryd Bayless ($1,993,560)
2009 First-Round Draft Pick
Cash Considerations ($3,000,000)
FROM TORONTO
PF Chris Bosh ($14,410,581)
PG Will Solomon ($711,517)
TO CHICAGO
PG Steve Blake ($4,250,000)
PF Travis Outlaw ($4,000,000)
PF Channing Frye ($3,163,769)
PF Ike Diogu ($2,912,823)
TO MINNESOTA
PF Drew Gooden ($7,151,183)
TO PHOENIX
PF Raef LaFrentz ($12,722,500)
PF LaMarcus Aldridge ($4,631,400)
Cash Considerations ($3,000,000)
TO PORTLAND
PF Chris Bosh ($14,410,581)
PG Kirk Hinrich ($10,000,000)
SF Mike Miller ($9,128,575)
PG Will Solomon ($711,517)
TO TORONTO
PF Amare Stoudemire ($15,070,550)
SG Jerryd Bayless ($1,993,560)
2009 First-Round Draft Pick (Via Portland)
For the Chicago Bulls, the organization would improve its frontcourt depth due to the acquisitions of Travis Outlaw, Channing Frye, and Ike Diogu — while Michael Ruffin and Cedric Simmons would be waived before the trade to create roster space — as well as save money in future seasons by parting with Kirk Hinrich’s long-term contract for Steve Blake.
For the Minnesota Timberwolves, the organization would save money next season — since Drew Gooden, who’s quite possibly out for the season at this point, has an expiring contract — by parting ways with Mike Miller.
For the Phoenix Suns, the organization would swap a disgruntled Amare Stoudemire for LaMarcus Aldridge. The downgrade in talent from Stoudemire to Aldridge is balanced out by their differences in salary, as Raef LaFrentz’s heavily insured expiring contract would aid Robert Sarver’s bank account.
For the Portland Trail Blazers, a starting lineup of Greg Oden, Chris Bosh, Nicolas Batum, Brandon Roy, and Kirk Hinrich — as well as a second unit of Joel Przybilla, Shavlik Randolph, Mike Miller, Rudy Fernandez, and Sergio Rodriguez — would be capable of making a deep run in the playoffs. The Trail Blazers would need to sign a power forward from the D-League to improve its depth, however, with a brusier like Richard Hendrix being a possibility.
For the Toronto Raptors, Bryan Colangelo would hope to recreate the magic he made in Phoenix by acquiring Amare Stoudemire to start alongside Andrea Bargnani and Shawn Marion on the team’s frontcourt. Although it would seemingly hurt the Raptors to move Chris Bosh, it appears that a change of scenery is in the best interests of both parties.
Yeah, I know that’s a pipe dream.
by AK1984 on Feb 14, 2009 10:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yowser. Epic fail of typing. Let me try again.
You come back with a “pipe dream” or “pie in the sky” (your words) four-team proposal when your initial comment is
What’s with these terribly unbalanced, unrealistic trade proposals? For once, I wish that people would put aside their homeristic bias and make plausible trade proposals.
You tell me. When was the last time a trade this complicated happened at the trade deadline?
by Corvid on Feb 14, 2009 10:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Jeepers, I just looked deeper at this one -- you're involving FIVE teams?
by Corvid on Feb 14, 2009 10:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I know that my trade proposal is kind of a jumbled mess, but it's not a homeristic idea.
It’s not the gargantuan proposals that bother me — although most of those are definitely “unrealistic” — rather, I get irked by the trade proposals wherein the Portland Trail Blazers swindle other teams. I, too, like Kevin Pritchard, but let’s not pretend that he’s some sort of genius snake oil salesman.
by AK1984 on Feb 14, 2009 10:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
KP after he acquires Bosh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BlNlj99IWo
by as11osu on Feb 14, 2009 10:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There won't -- and that is the basic problem
He is going to get paid in that awesome Canadian money for quite some time.
by LaoTzu on Feb 15, 2009 11:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that trade is pretty good
I’d do it in a heartbeat.
by Cablinasian on Feb 14, 2009 11:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Portland portion of your trade
FROM PORTLAND
PF Raef LaFrentz ($12,722,500)
PF LaMarcus Aldridge ($4,631,400)
PG Steve Blake ($4,250,000)
PF Travis Outlaw ($4,000,000)
PF Channing Frye ($3,163,769)
PF Ike Diogu ($2,912,823)
SG Jerryd Bayless ($1,993,560)
2009 First-Round Draft Pick
Cash Considerations ($3,000,000)
TO PORTLAND
PF Chris Bosh ($14,410,581)
PG Kirk Hinrich ($10,000,000)
SF Mike Miller ($9,128,575)
PG Will Solomon ($711,517)
All these teams and you couldn’t get us back a backup PF? Even Craig Smith would’ve something. So its Blake, Outlaw and Frye for Hinrich. 2 really good contracts for a really bad one. I’m guessing you have RLEC, LMA and Bayless going for Bosh. I’ll assume he’s signs an extension, or its even more stupid than it looks. Those are 3 major assets to give up. Bosh is pretty much LMA in three years (the same things you bang on LMA for, you could bang on Bosh for). The leftovers then equal out to be contracts and a first round pick for Mike Miller. If we’re already in cap hell, which you’ve decided to put us into, I guess you have to do that. Although, a first round pick signed for 4 years on the cheap is a greater asset than Miller.
What you’ve done is sold out all our depth and youth for a chance to win it this year (won’t happen) and next year.
PG: Hinrich / Sergio
SG: Roy / Rudy
SF: Miller / Webster / Batum
PF: Bosh / 2009 MLE FA / Freeland
C: Oden / Przybilla
I’m not arguing that’s a better team, I’m just thinking you gave up far too much youth and depth to speed our progress up by 1 year? Even with that lineup, can it win next year even? I don’t think you could put a 25% chance on something like that.
by as11osu on Feb 14, 2009 10:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bosh is one year older
and VASTLY better than LMA. They aren’t statistically comparable. Bosh routinely has a PER above twenty, unlike LMA.
by Cablinasian on Feb 14, 2009 11:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Offensively they're nearly identical in the types of players they are...
Bosh – 64% Jump Shots at .439% / 36% Inside Shots at .610%
Aldridge – 66% Jump Shots at .423% / 34% Inside Shots at .622%
Bosh like LMA is also not particularly special defensively. Bosh has a slight edge in rebounding, but also doesn’t play next to Przy and Oden for nearly all of his minutes. This is too close IMO to give up more than an asset like RLEC for. Certainly not Bayless, and even less so RLEC, Bayless and a first round pick.
by as11osu on Feb 14, 2009 11:42 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Chris Bosh and LaMarcus Aldridge may be close to each other in eFG%, but not TS%.
Bosh’s defensive rebounding numbers are way, way superior to that of Aldridge, while the difference between the two on the offensive glass is slim. Neither one of them are defensive stalwarts, either, but I’d also take Bosh over Aldridge in that case.
by AK1984 on Feb 14, 2009 11:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I really like LaMarcus' potential to grow with this team, but I think Bosh would be a very noticeable improvement
He was the best defender for Team USA in the Olympics, at least among the big men since the wings also did a good job, and definitely much better than Howard or Boozer. And for some time this year he could have been considered as a long shot for the MVP race before the whole team declined. The major advantage for him over Amare would be his fit to the team philosophy (he would get plenty of admiration in Portland which he wants without requiring to be the lone focal point of the offense), the ability to play next to Oden without constantly clogging the lane, and his age. I would give up quite a lot to get him, but I still don’t see Toronto willing to move him.
Brandon is one of those quiet assassins. - Chris Paul
by Norsktroll on Feb 14, 2009 11:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nice to see that you are consistent.....
……consistently wrong in your player evaluations.
Five teams?
Trade half the roster?
Sacrifice all our depth?
And just for a little insult to injury, you have the huevos to call Bayless a “2” instead of a “1”. Sticking to your guns on that one I see. Is your TV broken?
Bayless has averaged 4.2 assists in 23 minutes of PT for the last 9 games. I am willing to take bets on how long it takes for you to acknowledge your error: next month, next season, never…….
by upper left corner on Feb 15, 2009 11:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My cast iron cojones are intact, as I still call Jerryd Bayless an undersized shooting guard.
Thus far this season, Kirk Hinrich has an assit ratio* (30.7) that is approximately 1.5 times that of Bayless’ assist ratio (20.6). Heck, even Mike Miller has a markedly higher assist ratio (27.8) than Bayless; that says a lot about who’s more deferential on the court.
Assist Ratio = (Assists x 100) / [{(FGA + (FTA x 0.44)} + Assists + Turnovers]
by AK1984 on Feb 15, 2009 2:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Using any kind of season stats to "evaluate" Bayless is intellectually dishonest
Bayless’ playing time and production have improved so much over the past two months that any use of season long stats can only be interpreted as a blatant attempt to understate his actual performance.
Try looking at his game splits on ESPN to see how much he has improved. I don’t mind disagreeing. I do mind intellectual dishonesty.
Is Hinrich a better distributor than Bayless? At the moment, yes. I have never opposed getting Hinrich. I think it would be a smart move that would give us a chance to advance in the playoffs. I would be happy with Hinrich as the starter and Bayless as the back-up. Portland has a real problem with PG defense. Both Blake and ’Sergio are marginal at best. Hinrich would be a definite improvement.
What I don’t understand is your beef with Bayless. Do you dispute what is in front of your eyes? The kid has shown rapid improvement. When he finds his outside shot to go with his well demonstrated ability to get to the rim, he is going to be very tough to defend. Roy himself has compared guarding him in practice to guarding D Wade. He doesn’t need to be a magician with the ball, he just needs to learn to use the threat of his scoring ability to draw defenders and open shots and lanes for his teammates. All reports are that he is doing all the right things to fit in with the team. I see no evidence of “selfishness” or a bad attitude. Do you disagree?
To my eye, Bayless is already a better on the ball defender than Blake or Sergio. He is the only one of the three capable of generating any consistent pressure, but he is green and makes mistakes on rotations and help. Eventually, I think Bayless is going to be a good defender, a good distributor, and an excellent scorer.
I am with you on Hinrich, but I find the grudge you seem to bear against Bayless to be completely inexplicable. You made up your mind early and you don’t seem willing to give an inch. At some point you have to compare your preconceived notions against what we are actually seeing on the floor.
by upper left corner on Feb 15, 2009 10:48 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
well put.
We need SF help more then pg help. If we get a pg he has to be defensive improvement over our current guys. Bayless is great and unless we got an all-star I wouldn’t want to see him go.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 15, 2009 11:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ak
you are always so supportive of other people. It’s been great having you around to give praise to your fellow BEdgers and otherwise brighten up the day of those who read this blog. Thanks for taking the time to spread the good cheer!
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 14, 2009 9:17 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
+1 for use of sarcasm font
by upper left corner on Feb 15, 2009 10:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he and about a half dozen others should sit in the corner
Since when do we need to ponder to froth? - jscot
by 22baylor on Feb 15, 2009 1:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Who me?
For the sarcasm? Or did you mean AK?
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 15, 2009 2:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, he didn't mean AK, I am sure!
Sarcasm font in effect.
by LaoTzu on Feb 15, 2009 11:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh my God I can't wait for the deadline to be over.
by Garces on Feb 14, 2009 8:31 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I whole-hearted agree
I would love seeing some defense on the team, but I’m also content to see how this roster finishes the year. I hope Oden’s knee is up to snuff soon. I remember watching that play where he got hurt by Maggette and I have always disliked his style of play. But, I was impressed by how he stopped and checked to see if Oden was okay. Really surprised me.
When Blake comes back it’ll be interesting to see how Greg plays, his game has been getting sharper and with Blake in there to deliver the entry pass… whoo
by Oggbog on Feb 14, 2009 8:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I felt that way a month ago
Lately, the absurdity of it all is appealing to my, well, sense of the absurd. I also trust that Pritchard & Co. know a million times more about basketball than even the best of us, so a lot of this stuff will look aboslutely silly in a few days.
by Corvid on Feb 14, 2009 9:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm
counting on that! :) The silliness that is. I’ve tried to make my trades look silly in REAL TIME. It’s an advanced stage of trade flu.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 14, 2009 10:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Cavs are offering the Wally Szczerbiak EC, Hickson, and first round picks for Amare
So LeBron and Amare can both compete for the Cavs in the 2010 slam dunk contest :)
But right now I still think he will end up in Chicago.
The cake is a lie. Trade the cake!
by Norsktroll on Feb 14, 2009 8:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Seriously?
Or are you just saying that for fun?
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 14, 2009 9:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously
The cake is a lie. Trade the cake!
by Norsktroll on Feb 14, 2009 9:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting
they would need to size LeBron this year then.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 14, 2009 9:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
for a
ring that is.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 14, 2009 9:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
like this?
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ckekrf
3 way trade involving blazers – bulls – suns
Blazers
IN:
Shaq
Hinrich
Matt Barnes
OUT:
Outlaw
Blake
Pryz
Bayless
Shav
RLEC
Phoenix
IN:
Deng
Noah
Gooden
RLEC
Bayless
Shav
i.e. approx 20 mil in expiring contracts
Out:
Shaq
Amare
Mattt Barnes
Chicago
IN:
Amare
Pryz
Blake
Outlaw
OUT:
Deng
Hinrich
Noah
Gooden
Hello!
by Zaron5551 on Feb 14, 2009 9:16 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Nice
not sure PHX would part with Barnes though. Other then that I like it and it’s certainly different from the other PHX-POR-CHI trades I’ve seen.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 14, 2009 9:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
other than dave i may be the only one who like shaq for the blazers
we play so slow that he would fit right in and it would be a legitimate reason to bench oden and let him play against reserves
Hello!
by Zaron5551 on Feb 14, 2009 9:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Shaq
could be invaluable if he took Oden under his wing. And he has been on two teams since he was on the unmentionable team to the south.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 14, 2009 9:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, i think it would help Oden develop a lot
Hello!
by Zaron5551 on Feb 14, 2009 9:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ack
I didn’t see that you traded Bayless the first time. I definitely don’t like banking on Hinrich and Sergio for PG. I think if we take Shaq Phoenix can take Sergio instead.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 14, 2009 9:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
different sized contracts, i don't know if serge would work
plus bayless potential>serges and phoenix is gonna want something back
Hello!
by Zaron5551 on Feb 14, 2009 9:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They're the
ones on the financial ropes not us. We’re taking on their worst contract and getting virtually nothing from them.
Here’s my variant on your idea.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 14, 2009 9:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
whoops
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 14, 2009 9:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh nice, you found a deal that seems to make three teams worse according to Hollinger
The cake is a lie. Trade the cake!
by Norsktroll on Feb 14, 2009 9:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I tend to ignore
the Hollinger thing it often doesn’t make any sense to me. That’s not my only trade that makes all three teams worse.
So Norks throw out another realistic one. Which way do you think Blazers are gonna go? If you had money on it?!
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 14, 2009 9:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Jefferson deal has a good chance of happening. If we are lucky with Sessions in it too
But KP and Penn are known to try things out of left field :)
The cake is a lie. Trade the cake!
by Norsktroll on Feb 14, 2009 9:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not inspired
by just getting Jefferson. That feels like a modest upgrade at best. If Sessions was included I would be willing to trade alot more.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 14, 2009 10:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What do you think of this
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 14, 2009 10:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t give up Bayless and Sergio in such a deal and it’s also not necessary, but apart from that it’s how it could go down.
Brandon is one of those quiet assassins. - Chris Paul
by Norsktroll on Feb 14, 2009 10:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
stop trying to give up bayless
It’s just bad, epicly bad. It makes the idea pure fail.
by lurtsman on Feb 15, 2009 11:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bayless
has all the potential in the world. Sessions is showing the fruition of potential. He dropped 44pts and 13assists the other night. No doubt Bayless has that potential but Sessions is doing it now. For the record I would rather not trade Bayless if at all possible. I love Bayless but he is also one of our biggest trade assets and I would ONLY give him up if we got either Bosh or an elite PG.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 15, 2009 2:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
As much as Sessions impresses me
He is in the last year of his contract. There’s no guarantee we can sign him
My avatar is 3 years into the future for sure...
by Taskmaster on Feb 15, 2009 5:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How do you know
Bayless will resign when his contract is up? Or Roy or Oden? You don’t but you assume that PA’s big $$$ and the great Blazers organization will keep and hold them. I think the same things apply to sessions
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 15, 2009 6:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thats the worst trade for the Blazers I've ever seen...
Unreal…
by as11osu on Feb 14, 2009 10:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
was trying
a variant on what he had above without giving up Bayless. Like I said put some up. I’m throwing out ideas for fun as much as anything else. I think all of the realistic trades have been proposed by now. I’m trying to think of fun ideas within the general gist of others ideas. Or just plain crazy ones, you can thank Dragline for the inspiration.
For me for a variety of reasons Bayless > Rudy. It’s mostly due to positional need and upside. Both of which I feel Bayless has over Rudy.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 14, 2009 10:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I finally laid down my cockamamie trade proposal of the night.
Y’all can totally rip it to shreds, too, since I’ve got a very thick skin.
by AK1984 on Feb 14, 2009 10:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I saw it
a 5 teamer. Hinrich and Blake for the back court eh? I actually think Toronto would go for Bayless and Amare for Bosh. That part of it I liked alot.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 14, 2009 10:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
whoops
you dealt Blake my bad.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 14, 2009 10:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hinrich
and Sergio. Hmm, I don’t like it I’ll be honest. I liked Blake better as Hirich’s partner in crime. Of course that would kill any chance of Chicago doing it. I also am not sure about Chicago and Minnesota wanting in on this trade idea. Just my opinion though.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 14, 2009 10:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Those are all good points.
I, too, would much rather keep Steve Blake versus Sergio Rodriguez, but unfortunately the salaries wouldn’t’ve matched in that case.
Anyhow, I think that the Chicago Bulls would jump on it — unless, perhaps, John Paxson is unwilling to part ways with Kirk Hinrich — although it would appear that the Minnesota Timberwolves should be able to get more in return for Mike Miller.
by AK1984 on Feb 14, 2009 11:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
although it would appear that the Minnesota Timberwolves should be able to get more in return for Mike Miller.
Miller’s playing like garbage this year. Right now the only reason to hang onto him it would seem, is because he’s an expiring contract next year. I would imagine sending Frye and Outlaw would be more than enough (most T’Wolve’s fans would do this in a second). He and his contract won’t make it into the second phase of the T’Wolve’s rebuilding plan anyway. Only drawback is you have to make sure in this trade or another you get back a decent backup PF. I’m not sure what Craig Smith would cost extra being a BYC player, but he’d be a nice get for this team, at least as a placeholder.
by as11osu on Feb 14, 2009 11:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
With Mike Miller, my assumption is that ...
the Minnesota T’wolves will only dump him if the organization can simultaneously deal Brian Cardinal and/or Mark Madsen, too.
by AK1984 on Feb 15, 2009 12:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
More like this
There is just one problem: Portland isn’t in the deal :)
The cake is a lie. Trade the cake!
by Norsktroll on Feb 14, 2009 9:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So you think
Phoenix would go with that trade? Seems like we are giving more relief and more upside in most three team deals I see.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 14, 2009 9:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They get an expiring deal and a positional replacement. I think that's pretty much what they want
The cake is a lie. Trade the cake!
by Norsktroll on Feb 14, 2009 9:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i think thats pretty close to what might end up happening but phx has gotta want more than that total.
if that was the best offer, i would grin and bear amar’e.
by Ben. on Feb 15, 2009 12:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I like the idea of Portland, Chicago and Phoenix trade.
However, I still like the simpler version more.
Portland:
OUT:
RLEC
Outlaw
Sergio
Cash and picks
IN:
Deng
Hinrich
Chicago:
IN:
Amare
Dragic
2nd round pick from Portland
OUT:
Deng
Hinrich
Phoenix:
IN:
RLEC
Outlaw
Sergio
1st round pick from Portland
Cash considerations
I know that this is only a farfetched dream, but I think it has some merit.
Phoenix would get the financial savings they grave.
Chicago would get an elite big man to pair with Rose.
and Portland would upgrade, especially defensively, on both SF and PG departments.
by Dr. Strangelove on Feb 15, 2009 10:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's pretty much what I proposed earlier
Without Dragic going to Chi-town, but that’s a small detail
KP’s got some extra 2nd round draft choices he can throw in to help sweeten the deal, I’m not sure I’d surrender Portland’s 1st round pick unless it was a deal breaker. In some cases, the 2nd rounder are more valuable (especially to PHX) because there is no guaranteed money attached. Getting RLEC (and getting rid of Amare’s contract) is the main motivating factor for Sarver and the Suns, but certainly Outlaw and Rodriguez’ easy-to-swallow contracts won’t be an inpediment to the deal.
OTOH, I’m not how well Outlaw and Rodriguez will fit into Phoenix’ current system (before Shaq was acquired, adding Travis and Sergio would’ve been a no-brainer with D’Antoni’s run-and-gun style) Maybe even the Suns don’t know how they’re going to play for the rest of the season, if they fire Porter and bring in Gentry (etc)
What it comes down, of course, is how badly KP wants Hinrich and Deng. We know how most of the BEdgers line up on that question (especially re: Kirk’s game and contract) but by the 19th, it’s KP’s opinion of how they will improve the roster (now, and in the future) that will matter.
One thing’s for certain, KP will not have the opportunity to deal for Hinrich/Deng after Thursday. Time will tell if the proverbial “best” deal was the one that wasn’t made
by two4larue on Feb 15, 2009 2:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
One thing’s for certain, KP will not have the opportunity to deal for Hinrich/Deng after Thursday. Time will tell if the proverbial "best" deal was the one that wasn’t made
How does this work? Deng will still be a very good player making a very good players wage next year at this time, and Hinrich will still be robbing from some poor GM the next 4 years of his life. There is no reason we couldn’t make a very similar deal to this at next seasons trade deadline, when we’ll know a lot more about our own players, about our needs, and about what else is available throughout the league.
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 2:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We won't have the salary again to match players like this
We would have to give up a lot of players just to get to 12 million, or one of the big guys after their extension. Even if we would be willing to part with 3 or 4 players at once, then the other team needs to cut roster spots in turn to take them on. It all makes things much more complicated than with one big expiring contract plus 1 or 2 as filler. That’s the kind of offers KP gets right now. The other teams don’t inquire about Channing, Travis or Sergio because they are so awesomely talented, but mainly because they want that great expiring contract. If they can get a positional replacement like we could offer, all the better.
Brandon is one of those quiet assassins. - Chris Paul
by Norsktroll on Feb 15, 2009 3:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This isn't true
We’re going to have 10-12 million in unused dollars next year if we don’t add anyone to our core via FA. We could just as easily make this deal next year with that money, and a couple of small salaried players (Travis and Steve for example). Travis + Steve + unused 10 million should be enough to take on Hinrich and Deng. Its not rocket science. We could very easily do a deal for Deng and Hinrich next year if it doesn’t work out this year. I prefer not doing a deal either year. We can do better than these two players.
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 3:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't see it happening
- Expiring contracts are the big ticket in this economic situation. Much more valuable than medium quality players
- The cap will very likely fall or just increase very slightly next year. The writings are on the wall.
- Even if it’s at $60 we would have to give up at least 2 players just to free $7-8 million in cap space (Channing, Ike). I think the Blazers will want to bring one back or do a sign and trade – if they are still here.
- We would have to give up more quality players to get any deal done
A big deal either happens now for RLEC, or nothing spectacular will happen at all and Allen/Miller are also in “saving money” mode until further notice, which would be unfortunate.
Brandon is one of those quiet assassins. - Chris Paul
by Norsktroll on Feb 15, 2009 4:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Correct
After Thursday, RLEC can no longer be traded. KP could still be a player in the FA market this summer (best option out there for Portland’s roster is Turkuglo, small chance of that happening)
The time to deal is now. At the very least KP should acquire a player with an expiring contract in 2010, so we can all play this game again next February, when the stakes will be even higher…
by two4larue on Feb 16, 2009 1:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't like Shaq
Or Shaq’s Expiring Career.
Hinrich is overpaid. I like Blake more straight up.
As I see it, this sells our future for Matt Barnes, who I really like. But not as much as our future.
by LaoTzu on Feb 15, 2009 11:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How about this massive
You think Chicago and Phoenix would do it?
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 14, 2009 9:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
wow, lol, 8 new players for pho. and i thought mine was big
also hollinger has every team losing wins from your trade
Hello!
by Zaron5551 on Feb 14, 2009 9:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I know that was my favorite part
I’m sure it will be AK approved here any minute!
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 14, 2009 9:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
AK loves him some Hinrich...
he’d like that one.
I however do not. That leaves us with 0 backups for LMA and nearly no extra assets left, and definitely no salary cap room left. I’d be against that trade, and I’m positive KP can do much better, perhaps just from the RLEC contract alone.
by as11osu on Feb 14, 2009 9:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thow
a few up As11!
You are one of the folks who believes they have a GM mind (I do not I throw out trades for fun).
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 14, 2009 9:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't stand Larry Hughes massive chesthair.
My avatar is 3 years into the future for sure...
by Taskmaster on Feb 15, 2009 12:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The OP's post
Click it again and look:
The only people with first names shown are Steves, Blake and Nash.
They’re not the shortest names, they’re not the only names that would fit. It’s just…. weird.
by rmcdougall on Feb 14, 2009 11:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Simple, but effective
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
AMare to Wiz. RLEC, Sergio, Outlaw to Suns. Caron and Etan Thomas to Portland.
by Jiggamant on Feb 15, 2009 1:41 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Why do you love it?
You link didn’t work. It is junky that way.
Release your inner Kraken
by Dragline on Feb 15, 2009 2:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
couple more (This is all done assuming the trade partners are hurting financially)
1. We get Bibby and Smith
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
2. Dre and Dre
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
3. Hinrich and Salmons
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
4. Big one
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
by Jiggamant on Feb 15, 2009 2:25 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Dang, those links are all bad, i linked the main page somehow
that was a lot of wasted time
by Jiggamant on Feb 15, 2009 2:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you have to choose
Save the trade option then copy and paste the link they provide in the middle of the page. Don’t copy and paste from your browser up top copy the link they provide when you “Save the trade”.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 15, 2009 3:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We only need a small trade right now
I would like to see the Blazers go after a younger, cheaper Bruce Bowen type player that is a great defender. Defense is all about effort and good defense is contagious. I would give up a nice reserve and a pick for this player. Someone the young nucleous can learn from. Other than that unless someone offers us a lopsided trade out of desperation then let this team develop and mature.
by PHXBlazerFan on Feb 15, 2009 12:39 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/2009/02/14/20090214porter0215.html
new rumor: bayless, pick, raef for amar’e
this isnt going well for the suns
by Ben. on Feb 15, 2009 1:39 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
With a quick turnaround
To turn Amare into….who?
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Feb 15, 2009 1:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, this is it (I think)
OSBlazer above mentioned a trade rumored that would be RLEC, Bayless and picks for Amare; I heard another one mentioned that would be RLEC and picks and cash for Amare, as well as others it seems like.
I know that I hear these rumors and think “there’s no way Phoenix would trade Amare for that…” but here’s the thing—we can give Phoenix what they WANT better than anyone else can—money, between RLEC, young cheap players, young cheap players who ALSO have expiring contracts, cash, picks, etc.
So, we can probably actually give Phoenix an offer that is most attractive to them for what they want.
This means that we can go to any other team and ask them what they would give us if they got Amare in return — we can essentially get whatever talent Amare might bring for RLEC, plus picks and some combo of Sergio, Travis, Frye, Bayless, Blake (not all of them, hopefully hold on to Bayless).
THIS IS THE KIND OF SITUATION WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR. We can offer Phoenix a deal they cant refuse, without giving up any of our untouchable pieces, and get in return whatever talent Amare might bring.
So, to me, this is IT. The question is, what other team has players we want, that they would give up to get Amare… Would Chicago (for example) give up Deng and Hinrich for Amare? What about Hinrich and Nocioni? Would we be happy with Hinrich and deng or Nocioni for, say, RLEC, Sergio, Frye, and our first round pick?
In any case, as I said, I think this is the perfect storm situation where KP can make a GREAT deal, without moving a bunch of players we want to keep.
This is it.
by TimG on Feb 15, 2009 1:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
To follow up on this line of thinking...
Phoenix can only take as much money off their cap as they are willing to send out in contracts. But the only contracts they can trade which are more than 1 or 2 mil are Amare (15m) Nash (12m) Shaq (21m) and Barbosa (6m). I think they keep Nash, honestly, because keeping him, the face of the franchise over the last few years, might be able to somewhat save face while they otherwise blow up their team, for this year.
If they coudl move Shaq, I think they would, but I dont think they will be able to—contract just too big.
So, I would think they would keep Barbosa, but if they want to get more money, they are probably going to have to trade him.
So, back to what I said above, what about a trade like this?
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=caow3r
Chicago gets Amare and Barbosa (I know they already have Gordon, but they may take Barbosa in order to get Amare, and would give them insurance in case Gordon doesn’t re-sign), Chicago sends us Hinrich and Nocioni, and we give Phoenix RLEC, Frye, and Blake—ALL expiring contracts, plus Blake is a cheap PG in case they do trade Nash, and decide to keep him.
So we get Hinrich and Nocioni for RLEC, Blake and Frye. I’m not in love with Nocioni, but he could give us some toughness off the bench, and while Martell has been out, Travis has been playing backup PF anyway, so he would fit in as our bench SF.
And most of all, Phoenix takes 21 million off their books, plus the money they get for RLEC, plus picks and cash, from Portland and maybe Chicago. I think the owners might just do this, if they are already willing to give up Amare.
by TimG on Feb 15, 2009 2:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, I think this deal would work with Deng instead of Nocioni
If Chicago would do it, that would obviously make it that much more appealing to Portland.
by TimG on Feb 15, 2009 2:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No to Nocioni
If Chicago is going to get Amare, they need to be wiling to give up Deng.
KP will have the leverage, since there are other suitors for Stoudemire
by two4larue on Feb 15, 2009 3:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
As long as it doesn’t include Bayless, I think a deal with PHX could easily be done with any combination of RLEC, draft choices and some of Portland’s low-level contracts to help “balance out” the diference between RLEC and Amare’s contracts (approx. 5-6 mil) That means Sergio, Outlaw, Frye, Diogu, Shavlik—let Kerr choose who he thinks will fit his Suns roster best.
Then, get the best return available for Stoudemire from an eastern conference team (Chicago, Detroit, Washington, Milwaukee, etc)
by two4larue on Feb 15, 2009 2:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I just puked twice in my mouth
Would Chicago (for example) give up Deng and Hinrich for Amare? What about Hinrich and Nocioni? Would we be happy with Hinrich and deng or Nocioni for, say, RLEC, Sergio, Frye, and our first round pick?
I’d rather just keep Amare if the other option is Hinrich and Deng or especially the puketacular combination of Hinrich and Nocioni.
Now if we’re talking around the league and Tayshaun Prince, Jason Maxiell and Detroit’s first round pick for Amare… I’ll take THAT deal in less than a nanosecond. Detroit would love to pair Amare along with Stuckey and Amir for the future. Win win.
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 2:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, that's sick
If you puked in your mouth, go rinse it out and brush your teeth, don’t respond to my post.
by TimG on Feb 15, 2009 2:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You're idea for Prince is right on
I like Hinrich, you don’t. Ok. But either way, I really think this is the situation that gives us the potential for a deal of something valuable for RLEC and no main pieces.
I would absolutely love Prince. But I think we’d still need to do something about PG.
by TimG on Feb 15, 2009 2:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ya...
that’s why most of us have gotten on the Amare bus, just for the part of the ride that gets us to a secondary location where we pick up a couple of our OTHER needs. That said, if the best we can do is Hinrich and Nocioni, then Amare himself is actually the option that improves us the most. We’d still have the option to trade him this offseason, or next trade deadline if it comes down to that. If we can find a team like Detroit willing to give us 2 players that we’re looking for (almost exactly in both cases Pricne/Maxiell), then go and make that happen. This draft is deep in PG talent, and in 3 years from now, I’d rather have one of them than a 30 or 31 year old Kirk Hinrich thats been on the down swing of his career.
by as11osu on Feb 15, 2009 2:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bright Side of the Sun
is reporting Amare will go to the Bulls.
by Cablinasian on Feb 15, 2009 2:08 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I had it first :)
Brandon is one of those quiet assassins. - Chris Paul
by Norsktroll on Feb 15, 2009 2:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
sorry
I just want Caron butler for RLEC + random debris.
I have my P.h.D in unreliable hyperbole.
by Eat Politicians on Feb 15, 2009 3:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
That's what Brian Berger just proposed on 95.5
RLEC for Caron Butler… Man, I wish I would’ve thought of that.
Actually, I think a better deal would be RLEC and Sergio for Chris Paul and David West.
by TimG on Feb 15, 2009 3:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't know if I really want to let go of Sergio...
But you’ve got to give something to get something.
by TimG on Feb 15, 2009 3:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably make Fernandez unhappy.
My avatar is 3 years into the future for sure...
by Taskmaster on Feb 15, 2009 6:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i would give up
sergio for CP3 in a heartbeat, but I don’t see NO letting go of him for anything…
I have my P.h.D in unreliable hyperbole.
by Eat Politicians on Feb 15, 2009 5:57 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
get devin harris and grant hill
with RLEC, bayless, sergio and frye. tell me if kiki, kerr and kevin aren’t getting what they want with this.
by bkoregon on Feb 15, 2009 6:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
only trade that makes sense
Prince – to me, the perfect fit. can score you 25, but happy being the 4th option. Excellent D, young, athletic, and more than anything else, no chemistry gamble adding him to the team.
by hambone17 on Feb 15, 2009 7:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
only way
we could get Prince is if he was in a trade for Amare. We don’t have what DET wants but they might very well want Amare.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 15, 2009 7:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's one thats realistic
RealGM Sports
RealGM Trade Checker™
NBA collective bargaining agreement. Successful Trade Scenario
Congratulations on a successful trade.
Due to Oklahoma City and Portland being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Oklahoma City and Portland had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.
Trade ID
Trade ID #5011836
Every trade made by fans is allocated a unique Trade ID which you can share with friends and fellow basketball fans to allow them to see your trade scenario.
Try Another Trade or visit our Trade Forum.
Oklahoma City Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: -7.6 ppg, -6.4 rpg, and -1.3 apg.
Incoming Players
Channing Frye
6-11 PF from Arizona
3.6 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 0.5 apg in 10.6 minutes
Ike Diogu
6-8 PF from Arizona State
1.2 ppg, 0.7 rpg, 0.0 apg in 3.0 minutes
Travis Outlaw
6-9 SF from Starkville (HS)
12.3 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 27.5 minutes
Outgoing Players
Jeff Green
6-8 SF from Georgetown
16.7 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.1 apg in 36.8 minutes
Nick Collison
6-9 PF / C from Kansas
8.0 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 0.8 apg in 25.0 minutes
Portland Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: +7.6 ppg, +6.4 rpg, and +1.3 apg.
Incoming Players
Jeff Green
6-8 SF from Georgetown
16.7 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.1 apg in 36.8 minutes
Nick Collison
6-9 PF / C from Kansas
8.0 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 0.8 apg in 25.0 minutes
Outgoing Players
Channing Frye
6-11 PF from Arizona
3.6 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 0.5 apg in 10.6 minutes
Ike Diogu
6-8 PF from Arizona State
1.2 ppg, 0.7 rpg, 0.0 apg in 3.0 minutes
Travis Outlaw
6-9 SF from Starkville (HS)
12.3 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 27.5 minutes
by billyjoejack on Feb 15, 2009 7:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I like green
but I’m not sure why OKC would do this trade. I think Green is a good target I just think he is valued in OKC. Maybe now that Durant is playing SF he is tradeable but they would probably want a SG in return. Not a bad trade just not sure OKC would go for it.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 15, 2009 7:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's another that might work
and not a bunch of jumbo; RealGM Trade Checker™
Powered by RealGM: Software Provider to NBA Teams
Step 1: Select the TeamsChoose at least two teams from the menus below to start your trade. Step 2: Choose the PlayersSelect the players you wish to trade from the rosters below. Step 3: Verify the TradeConfirm that your trade proposal is valid according to the NBA collective bargaining agreement. Successful Trade Scenario
Congratulations on a successful trade.
Due to Washington and Portland being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Washington and Portland had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.
Trade ID
Trade ID #5011855
Every trade made by fans is allocated a unique Trade ID which you can share with friends and fellow basketball fans to allow them to see your trade scenario.
Try Another Trade or visit our Trade Forum.
Washington Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: -13.5 ppg, -5.1 rpg, and -4.6 apg.
Incoming Players
Ike Diogu
6-8 PF from Arizona State
1.2 ppg, 0.7 rpg, 0.0 apg in 3.0 minutes
Channing Frye
6-11 PF from Arizona
3.6 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 0.5 apg in 10.6 minutes
Travis Outlaw
6-9 SF from Starkville (HS)
12.3 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 27.5 minutes
Outgoing Players
Andray Blatche
6-11 PF from South Kent Prep (HS)
10.1 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 1.8 apg in 23.4 minutes
Caron Butler
6-7 SF / SG from Connecticut
20.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 4.4 apg in 38.9 minutes
Portland Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: +13.5 ppg, +5.1 rpg, and +4.6 apg.
Incoming Players
Andray Blatche
6-11 PF from South Kent Prep (HS)
10.1 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 1.8 apg in 23.4 minutes
Caron Butler
6-7 SF / SG from Connecticut
20.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 4.4 apg in 38.9 minutes
Outgoing Players
Ike Diogu
6-8 PF from Arizona State
1.2 ppg, 0.7 rpg, 0.0 apg in 3.0 minutes
Channing Frye
6-11 PF from Arizona
3.6 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 0.5 apg in 10.6 minutes
Travis Outlaw
6-9 SF from Starkville (HS)
12.3 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 27.5 minutes
© 2000-2009 RealGM, L.L.C. All rights reserved.
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by billyjoejack on Feb 15, 2009 7:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
You would have
to add alot more to get Washington to trade Caron at least RLEC and probably one of our young PG’s at a bare minimum.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Feb 15, 2009 7:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i love stupid trades!
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cv9tqy
I don't normally do this, but I felt compelled to tell you something. You have an absolutely breath-taking... heiney. I mean, that thing's good. I wanna be friends with it
by Maximus Blaze on Feb 15, 2009 9:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Could you see us make this deal with the Pistons?
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=dyn5ke
Raef, Rudy, Travis, Channing (and picks) for Prince, Hamilton, Acker. That would jump start our contender window, and also boost the rebuilding process in Detroit that has begun with the AI trade to save them a ton of money over the coming years. On the other end, they have no chance of making a dent in the playoffs until the 2010/11 season at the earliest when they do this (provided they can attract one or two major free agents then).
Acker is just in the deal since the Pistons don’t have enough roster spots open to absorb 4 players. The same deal would also work without Channing (and Acker), but this way they would get a big guy they could need since they are not that deep on PF/C, and still would have the flexibility to not re-sign him for more cap relief if they wanted.
Brandon is one of those quiet assassins. - Chris Paul
by Norsktroll on Feb 15, 2009 10:36 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
whoa, i was just about to post this: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ckg8rp
Portland in: Prince, Hermann
Phoenix in: Maxiell, RLEC, Portland 1st
Detroit in: Amare, Batum
by Jiggamant on Feb 15, 2009 10:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I have a strong feeling that Amare is going to Detroit, with or without us
Rasheed has an equal contract and it is expiring
by Jiggamant on Feb 15, 2009 10:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Detroit is shopping Wallace
But that’s a player I somehow can’t see wanting to come back to the Blazers…
Brandon is one of those quiet assassins. - Chris Paul
by Norsktroll on Feb 15, 2009 10:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It would be to PHX
and that would mean that we most likely had no involvement in the trade
by Jiggamant on Feb 15, 2009 10:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I read a vague rumor about a potential big deal with the Pistons on RealGM, so I wanted to at least make one suggestion
That was a team I didn’t focus on so far, aside from saying “I really like Tayshaun” :)
Brandon is one of those quiet assassins. - Chris Paul
by Norsktroll on Feb 15, 2009 10:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I read that too, I think there is the potential that our supposed desire for Amare has been apart of this deal the whole time
and I love Tayshaun as well
by Jiggamant on Feb 15, 2009 10:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Acker is being traded to the Clippers for a swap of draft picks.
by parkinglotj on Feb 15, 2009 11:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, that won't stop such a deal from happening if it were to happen :)
They have other pieces they could put in, it was just the smallest one. But as I said it’s just an idea so it goes here in the drawer.
Brandon is one of those quiet assassins. - Chris Paul
by Norsktroll on Feb 15, 2009 11:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
CP3 to Portland (kick me, I'm sleeping/dreaming)
since there are so many crazy trades floating around there I’ll post my own:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=d7bdgg
To NO:
RLEC / Aldridge / Outlaw / Rodriguez
To Ptld:
Paul / Stojacovic / Marks
(Marks only for salary balancing)
At least is is simple . . . . and my understanding is NO is trying to dump salary.
put a body on 'em
by RayBourque on Feb 15, 2009 11:27 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't say it's' impossible
but not during the middle of the season. Especially since NO might make a run. But I would think Shinn’s loan sharks are getting impatient.
by chnews on Feb 15, 2009 11:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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