Seeking clarification of the "letting the ball roll on the floor" rule
This season I've noticed more than ever the practice of letting the ball roll on the floor before picking it up in order to advance the ball without the clock starting. I'm not sure how this got started, but I think LeBron popularized it (correct me if I'm wrong).
This practice annoys the crap out of me because I'm under the impression that the time the ball spends rolling on the floor is supposed to be part of the 5-second count. I have taken to actually counting during these plays, and about half the time the ball rolls for more than 5 seconds, but there's no call. There's NEVER a call. One of the worst offenders when it comes to this, incidentally, is the PTB's very own Steve Blake.
So, what's the rule on this? Is it considered part of the 5-second inbound rule, or not? And why don't teams try to sneak a defender in there to disrupt the ball roll? Along with flopping, I'd like to see the NBA sort this out when the rules committee next meets.
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The 5 second rule...
That’s a good question. Is it 5 seconds to get the ball in possession, or just 5 seconds to get it inbounded?
I am all for this practice of not touching the ball when time is precious. But our own Steve Blake does it in excess, I think. And the way he does it (or maybe it’s how the inbounder puts the ball in play) looks awkward, whereas other guys will be walking face forward up the court with the ball right in front of them.
Meh, I guess.
Give the man his "M"!!!
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Feb 13, 2009 12:45 PM PST reply actions
Its not part of the 5 second count
I’ve always wondered why teams don’t just have someone get up there and make the PG pick up the ball.
Doesn’t really bother me though.
Boomshakalaka
the only reason it bothers me is because of the sense that a rule is being ignored
If it’s not part of the 5 second count, then I guess I’m OK with it (though I still don’t understand why the defense doesn’t go after the ball).
by Badalona Baddie on Feb 13, 2009 12:50 PM PST up reply actions
the only time it bothers me
is when Blake does it when we’re winning. Why not run as much time as possible off the clock. I’m pretty sure the only reason he does this is so the offense can get set without using too much shot clock. Hopefully as the team gets more aware offensively and knows the sets front and back, this practice won’t be so prevalent, especially when we’re already ahead.
by DrivetheLane on Feb 13, 2009 2:00 PM PST up reply actions
It doesn't matter re ahead or behind
since you can still run as much clock as you need to. I think Blake does it because of the pace of play. Our team gets up and down slowly and he is merely postponing the start of the 24 second clock.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
by 92wastheyear on Feb 13, 2009 3:46 PM PST up reply actions
Exactly
It’s to have more time on our shotclock when we start the play. If he wanted he could pick it up and dribble off seconds to try to run out the clock, but the less time you have the less opportunity you have to keep looking for a better shot.
When the blazers become a good defensive team (and with a few years of the cake baking I think they will be a very good defensive team), I’d love to see the blazers press the guard. It would be a great role for bayless if he can learn to do it without getting called for a foul. If we have solid defense around the hoop, making the other team waste an extra 4-6 seconds of shotclock before they can start a play will be a serious advantage to our team.
imo just starting the clock when the ref signals/blows a whistle
would solve a heck of a lot of timekeeper problems.
Ref hands the ball to inbounder, ref signals, ref blows whistle, time starts, off we go.
Besides it’s silly to have the nine guys running around going full tilt and one guy lollygagging around with the ball in the backcourt and say that the game isn’t in progress.
Blazer Fan
but then we wouldn't
have B. Roys buzzer beater to win. There would be almost no last second shots. You couldn’t call a timeout if your teammates are being guarded and retain the time on the clock. When would the clock start on a free throw?
Its not part of the 5 second count, the ball is technically still out of bounds (it hasn’t been in-bounded yet).
From the back of Travis Outlaw's Franz card: Travis leads the team in monstrous thunder dunks, wins awards for post game interviews, and often gets extra points for degree of difficulty.
by TheOdenator on Feb 13, 2009 12:52 PM PST up reply actions
I know it would eliminate a lot of the cool inbound plays but hey
I’m just trying to help the OP out ;)
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Feb 13, 2009 12:53 PM PST up reply actions
oh sorry i misunderstood your question, I was thinking you meant back court pressure
Yea, huh. The rule is that you have 5 seconds to pass the ball from the out of bounds position.
From the back of Travis Outlaw's Franz card: Travis leads the team in monstrous thunder dunks, wins awards for post game interviews, and often gets extra points for degree of difficulty.
by TheOdenator on Feb 13, 2009 12:54 PM PST up reply actions
By the way speaking of inbounding how funny was Rudy's sequence in the 4th?
When GS inbounded way in the backcourt and Rudy was doing some sort of chicken dance with the ballhandler all the way upcourt that resulted in him getting two quick fouls in about 10 seconds. The second of which gave GS free throws.
I thought Nate was going to punch him.
Maybe its already been talked about to death but I didn’t see where.
Blazer Fan
It absolutely is part of the 5 second inbounds rule. Same with the 8 second rule and passing the ball past half-court. But there are a lot of rules that get ignored in the NBA.
like stated above....
it is most certainly not a part of the 5 second in bound rule. That ends when the player passing it in no longer has possession.
I do however wonder about the 8 second back court rule in this instance. I think the eight second count doesn’t start until the shot clock starts.
Change We Believe In
correct
if you have the ball in the frontcourt by the time the shot clock hits 16 (shot clock starts the same time the game clock does— when the ball is touched) then there is no violation.
Boomshakalaka
by jksnake99 on Feb 13, 2009 1:23 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I can admit when I'm wrong...
From Wikipedia (they site NFHS Rule 9 Section 2 Article 4)
Five-second throw-in violation
A five-second throw-in violation occurs if, during a throw-in, the ball is not released (passed) by the player inbounding the ball before five seconds have elapsed since the inbounding player was handed the ball.1 The game/shot clock(s) will not start until the ball is legally touched inbounds.
by Brandon684 on Feb 13, 2009 1:32 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
i wish recs carried over on to your sn.
because you deserve one for owning up. (Ceremonial +1)
From the back of Travis Outlaw's Franz card: Travis leads the team in monstrous thunder dunks, wins awards for post game interviews, and often gets extra points for degree of difficulty.
It used to count towards five seconds in high school
I know, because I got called for it once. But that was back in the 70s….
When I rule the world, everyone will know how to use Excel.
Chris Paul also does it all the time
Another “new” rule I hate is that you can inbound the ball into the backcourt (your own half) now in the final minutes of the game without a backcourt violation. This way you can literally run away from guys trying to foul you to win the game. I’ve seen all kinds of teams do it, from Phoenix to Boston. One can make an argument that fouling to stop the clock is stupid, but running away like you are playing catch is worse to me.
The cake is a lie. Trade the cake!
Haven't you always been able to pass it into the backcourt on an inbounds play
I remember this happening all of the time in the 90s
as long as i have been playing basketball
you have been able to do that.
From the back of Travis Outlaw's Franz card: Travis leads the team in monstrous thunder dunks, wins awards for post game interviews, and often gets extra points for degree of difficulty.
No.
This was a change that was implemented about 3 years ago when they instituted the new rules limiting the number of timeouts in the fourth quarter. The rules were changed to reduce the number of full timeouts taken at the end of games, by reducing full timeouts given to teams by one in each quarter, and making the rule where one full timeout is converted to a 20 if the team has more than 2 timeouts remaining in the last 2 minutes.
The tradeoff for the reduction in timeouts was allowing teams to advance the ball on 20 second timeouts, and allowing them to inbound into the backcourt after doing so.
Write-in Rudy for All-Star 2009!
I thought it was just the advancing of the ball
so three years ago in the NBA you couldn’t throw the ball into the back court to inbound the ball?
From the back of Travis Outlaw's Franz card: Travis leads the team in monstrous thunder dunks, wins awards for post game interviews, and often gets extra points for degree of difficulty.
clarify my question:
so three years ago in the NBA you couldn’t throw the ball into the back court to inbound the ball from the front court?
From the back of Travis Outlaw's Franz card: Travis leads the team in monstrous thunder dunks, wins awards for post game interviews, and often gets extra points for degree of difficulty.
huh yea I guess so via nba.com
After a change of possession in the last two minutes of regulation or any overtime period, the offensive team can call a regular or 20-second timeout and advance the ball to midcourt. The team has the option of inbounding the ball in the frontcourt or backcourt. If it passes into the backcourt, the 10-second rule applies.
Previously teams could advance the ball only by calling a regular timeout and had to inbound the ball into the frontcourt.
From the back of Travis Outlaw's Franz card: Travis leads the team in monstrous thunder dunks, wins awards for post game interviews, and often gets extra points for degree of difficulty.
changed in 2001
From the back of Travis Outlaw's Franz card: Travis leads the team in monstrous thunder dunks, wins awards for post game interviews, and often gets extra points for degree of difficulty.
Has it really been that long?
Wow. Seemed more recent to me. How the time flies! ;-)
Write-in Rudy for All-Star 2009!
Yeah, and since you can't do it during regular play I never understood why you should be able for inbounds
The cake is a lie. Trade the cake!
I think that this became more popular
once players starting watching those old NBA Superstar videos where they play highlights while some cheesy 80s music plays in the background. Magic did the same thing in one of those videos and hit a buzzer beating 3.
Here's why "letting the ball roll on the floor" is smart.
1. Get into the offense with more time left on the shot clock (as others mentioned);
2. Makes it easier to avoid the new eight second rule for getting the ball out of the backcourt;
3. If a defender comes running up in an effort to force the point guard to pick up the dribble, the point guard could blow by the defender much more easily and create a five on four or a mismatch at the offensive end of the floor;
4. (most important) Bored fans waiting for the player to pick up the dribble —> increased beer sales :)
Point guards have done this from time to time for decades, but it was the eight second rule that made it more popular.
MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)
by The Cactus Leaguer on Feb 13, 2009 4:12 PM PST reply actions
thank you
i totally hate this too! I get the pros but there have been a couple times when blake almost lost the ball out of bounds because he was doing this in the middle of a game. In my opinion you should only do this in the 4th quarter. Look 8 seconds is plenty of time to get it across court so who really cares(the only person this seems like to short is blake because he moves at permanent slug pace). Its just annoying
"Howard, he know me" Rudy
What keeps the inbounder
from just setting the ball down on the court? Or gently dropping it from 1". Both teams could go out for a beer, come back and resume the game.
What rule prevents this?
by Engineering Problem on Feb 13, 2009 8:41 PM PST reply actions
Logic prevents that – while you could, how could it possibly be to your advantage?
"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan
Well, you could mess with the opponents' mind
and perhaps get two quick points while they think the ball is maybe dead. Or something. Point is, do the rules cover this at all?
by Engineering Problem on Feb 14, 2009 6:07 PM PST up reply actions
Curiosity: in FIBA when you touch the ball the game clock start running but the posesion clock doesn´t start until you touch the ball with your hand.
The first time I heard about it was because of a play made by Rubio in the final game of the U16 championships (Aug 2006). The final game went into two overtimes, and Rubio finished with 51 points, 24 rebounds, 12 assists, and 7 steals. With 28 seconds left in the first overtime, Rubio was told in the timeout to hold for the final shot (tied game at that moment). As the ball was inbounded, there was no pressure coming from the Russian team, and Rubio let the ball bounce off his chest and onto the ground. The shot-clock didn’t start because no possession was established, and Rubio picked up the ball with 24 seconds left. His coach had not informed Rubio of the rule; it was the imagination of a 16 year old that led to such a veteran play. He even had to remind the rule to the refs while he was playing that ball, after he looked at the clock and watched that they were missing it. Link
Sergio + Rudy = 16
Sergio + Bayless = 16
Batum 8+8=16
Archaic Rules
There are a couple of archaic rules the NBA should get rid of because the 24 second rule makes it unnecessary. The over and back rule and the 8 second rule serve no purpose whatsoever. Why have them when there is a 24 second clock?
I could see the purpose of these rules with no shot clock but not with a 24 second clock.
Off-topic
The one I don’t like is the dribble behind the back, where the guy has to look to find the ball, this is a carry almost every time and it’s never called.
I don’t remember the game (it wasn’t the Blazers) the guy (NBA) gets the defensive rebound at the free throw line, takes two dribbles and dunks it at the other end of the court – he could have been called for traveling twice on the same play. No call was made. Throwing the ball out in front of you so that you have to catch up to it should be an automatic call.
GO
THE TEACHER ......come into my classroom "THE PAINT" for some tutelage.
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"The rancor reflected in that remark I won't dignify with comment. But I'll address your general attitude of hopeless negativism." – Everett "O Brother, where art Thou?"

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