Awoj: Blazers Looking for a Forward, Miller on Block
Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports takes up a topic that's been raised a few times in the past week (here, here and here): Will the Blazers make a move sooner rather than later?
Awoj writes...
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Since Travis Outlaw has been lost for four to five months with foot surgery, GM Kevin Pritchard has been working the phones for an athletic forward as a replacement.
That isn’t much of a surprise, but this is: In conversations with Portland’s front office and coaching staffs, several league officials believe Andre Miller could soon be available. As a free-agent signee over the summer, Miller can’t be traded until Dec. 15.
...
Blazers coaches have privately insisted to confidants throughout the league that Miller isn’t working out, and the belief is that Pritchard is testing the market on Miller’s worth.
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Thanks to raoulduke who had this first in the fanposts.
-- Ben Golliver | (benjamin.golliver@gmail.com) | Twitter
about 2 years ago
Ben Golliver
193 comments
0 recs |
Comments
What BRoy wants, BRoy gets!
Thanks Brandon! Now we might never get to see what we could have been with a highly skilled point guard distributing the ball. Now Oden’s improvement will be stalled again for the rest of the year. Now we won’t get any fastbreaks or easy points. Now we can watch BRoy 1-on-4 iso show that’ everyone is so scared of. And now we can be just like last year and get another 1st round exit just like last year. Anything to make you comfortable Brandon!
Did your dad just tell you not to date your boyfriend or something?
Give Roy a bit of time to adjust. He carried this team last year. He got close to the brink with all the selfish talk, but he didn’t plunge yet. Wait, and you’ll be eating your words in a few months.
Or I’ll be eating mine.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
Roy won't adjust if Miller is traded
particularly for a forward. This is the troubling thing to me about this scenario. this team won’t be able to develop into a title contender if it continues to rely so heavily on ISOs for Roy. And if the recommendations for Blake being the starter are only that he provdies the proper spacing for Brandon to run his ISO and is available for the 3 shot, then we are in trouble.
Brandon either needs to figure out how to make a good post pass himself, how to get Greg into the game to set up a team offesive rhythm or we need a point guard that can lead an inside out attack. Roy has not shown yet the skills to get the ball down to Oden in a usable fashion consistenly, neither has Blake for that matter. Andre has. Roy should embrace that and develop other aspects of his game, weak side cuts without the ball would be huge for instance, might even make it easier to score for him rather than relying so much on 1 on 1 play (which most of the time is 1 on 2 or 1 on 3).
I am not saying Roy is a one trick pony, he brings a lot to the table, but the great players are always expanding their portfolio based on the talent around them. they remain the focal point, but the guys around them work together to make the star even more potent.
You do not win consistently in the playoffs on jumpshots and one guy running the ISO play, no matter how good they are.
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
by PDXBuckeye on Dec 4, 2009 9:49 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Not really sure what your headline meant, but when it comes to your post...
I’m not really sure how I’ll be eating my words either. If Miller goes, we won’t know what could have been with a talented guard. And we won’t know because Roy didn’t even want to try it out. That’s my point.
I'd rather watch Roy go 1 on 4 and get a shot
than watch Miller go 1 on 4 and fall down
"I been ridin' the midnight train, got ice water in my veins." -Bob Dylan
"Sasha? That's a sissy name." -Mike Rice
by koyote on Dec 4, 2009 9:07 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
me too
but would much rather see miller through an ally-oop to aldridge or work the pick and roll or cut to the hoop after feeding the ball to greg
bayless leaves over my dead body
Start Andre (in a 2 guard lineup)
"Good defense always beats bad offense."-Al Iannazzone, Yes Network
by thomasikehara on Dec 4, 2009 9:19 AM PST up reply actions
And how many times has that happened?
I’m pretty positive that Brandon’s 1 on 4 plays are a lot less affective this season than they were last season, most of them have ended in passes to players with no time left to make something of the possession or players that had no business getting the ball where they did.
Do you honestly believe that if Brandon would learn to move without the ball as efficiently as he has moved with the ball – up until this season that is – that Miller going to the middle would end up with him repeatedly on the floor with nothing to show for it?
"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."
For the record...
I think I’ve seen Miller fall down about 8 or 9 times this season. That’s just an estimate and it usually has happened before he has a chance to either shoot or pass. Roy on the other hand draws a lot more attention than Miller, but still manages to either get a shot off or get fouled. Both players are pretty good at getting contact and drawing fouls. My original point was that Roy is an All Star and he’s made a pretty good career so far out of attacking the basket. Miller is not and has not.
"I been ridin' the midnight train, got ice water in my veins." -Bob Dylan
"Sasha? That's a sissy name." -Mike Rice
On your point:
Roy hasn’t been attacking the basket nearly as much this season and comparatively speaking, from what I’ve seen (don’t have the stats to look at) Miller is right up there with Roy in drawing fouls on the drive so far this season.
Simply because Miller hasn’t been an All-Star doesn’t mean he’s automatically ineffective.
"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."
Brandon and Andre
play two different positions naturally.
"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."
Brandon>Batum
So I guess that means we should trade Batum and everyone else on the team.
by Nick Van Excellent on Dec 4, 2009 7:12 PM PST up reply actions
USA USA USA USA
After all the sadness we’ve been through, this is the best news we’ve heard regarding the Blazers since last year.
Start Andre Miller NOW to showcase him for a trade.
If I was a gambling man
I would bet just about anything you wanted that when Miller gets his shot to be the starting PG with Roy at SG and Blake in the second unit, that he’ll have all the nay-sayers swallowing their tongues in embarrassment.
"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."
by Seijeff on Dec 4, 2009 9:41 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Nope
I learned to hate on Blazers Edge. Miller could average a triple double and give me a kidney and I’ll hate him like he’s Jack/Sergio/Blake/Outlaw all rolled into one.
Start Andre Miller NOW to showcase him for a trade.
Next time I check into a hotel
I’m checking in as Jack Sergio or Blake Outlaw. – Elgin
Travis Outlaw, the Funnel Cake of the Blazers
by 22baylor on Dec 4, 2009 12:56 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Jack Sergio has a certain ring to it.
Blake Outlaw sounds like something yuppy parents would name their kid.
hakkaa päälle !
but no darius or zach right, right??
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
They deserved to be hated
I’m talking about real.fan.hate.
Start Andre Miller NOW to showcase him for a trade.
hating is not nice tom
...and that's a good thing
by In Walks Rudy on Dec 4, 2009 7:52 PM PST up reply actions
I'd be willing to take that chance
because the “alternative” isn’t working now, like it was last spring
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
It's BS
There is no way this is true. The guy hasn’t even been tried as the only starting point guard yet.
Do it.
Blake or Miller. One’s gotta go. As much as I dislike blake as a player and starting pg, he fits better than Dre. Free Bayless!
I hate it when a GM has to deal from a position of weakness
especially when he’s the GM of one of my favorite pro teams
The ideal time to flip Andre is if a contending team loses their starting PG to injury, then KP could swoop in and make them “overpay” for Miller. Now that this news is “out there” KP will be on the other end of the whuppin’ stick, and he’ll have a tougher time getting equal value in return for Dre
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
This is crazy!
I’m not saying Miller is or isn’t the answer. But we haven’t played one game, not even one game with Miller starting at the point and Brandon playing the 2. We have to give that a shot for at least a stretch of 5-10 games before we trade our best point guard. He clearly has helped Oden’s game blossom (and who knows, maybe Oden not Roy is our franchise player). If Roy and Miller can’t work it out after that 10 game time span, fine, put him on the block. But we don’t even know what we are trading yet. Winning might make Roy less picky about playing with Miller.
by letusrun on Dec 4, 2009 8:40 AM PST reply actions 6 recs
agreed
let him start as the sole point guard and see what we get before cutting him. However I don’t see Nate not starting Binkie which is amazing in and of itself.
I can agree with this comment
I’ve been thinking Miller isn’t a fit because of his style of play, but you’re right we should start him and see how that works out.
The only reason I see not to, is if there’s internal power struggles going on with Nate and Miller. Miller was benched, and I would guess there’s a reason. In those situations I’ll generally support the coach because players should NOT be running the team.
If a power struggle IS going on, then it’s time to move on regardless. if one isn’t, then yeah… let Miller start and see how that works.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
"players should NOT be running the team"
It sure seems like this is happening, but with BRoy and not Miller.
Agreed
and I think that needs to be halted too.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
all this stuff is making me nervous
Greg is asserting himself more nad more, will Roy be comfortable with that? Did not think that would be a problem, but it seems like a looming problem over the next season or two. I am worried the Miller dust up is just a symptom of a larger issue facing the team.
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
we will be trading Greg
because he messes with Broys production
by DowntownVinnie on Dec 5, 2009 12:02 AM PST up reply actions
i don't like Roy's special treatment
he may be special, but so what. He’s PART of the team, not above it.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
People are not equal, not matter how many kindergarten teachers say so.
That said, I agree. But, I’d rather see Roy make that decision and be happy than to have it forced upon him. That’s the diplomatic way, and I think Nate’s trying for it.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
BEdgers should NOT be running the team
Travis Outlaw, the Funnel Cake of the Blazers
by 22baylor on Dec 4, 2009 12:57 PM PST up reply actions 6 recs
And we aren't.
All we can do is talk so there’s no harm done. The point is BRoy shouldn’t be running the team, he’s a player, not a coach, but he actually seems to be running it more than he should be able to.
That's our perception
but it could also be false.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
by ratbastird on Dec 4, 2009 2:36 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
So fans who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground ...
… can blather all they want, but the guys doing the work have to keep their shut. Lovely.
hakkaa päälle !
When it comes to coaching decisions, then yes!
Players should play and leave the coaching to the coach. We know what happened to Nate when he tried to be a player in practice yesterday. Well the same goes the other way around too. Roy is not our coach.
Nate wanted a player-coach
This summer Nate gushed about getting Miller, a “player-coach.” Someone who could call plays on the court and improvise. He should be careful what he wishes for then. The power struggle would, in my mind be caused by Nate, giving Andre one impression when courting him, and then not giving Dre any freedom to perform.
by letusrun on Dec 4, 2009 8:58 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Nice Post!
I agree and also feel that has a potential to be a major crossroads for our team. Do you trade Miller before ever really giving him a chance? This one is on Nate and Brandon if it happens.
Not sure why I'm the only one to rec, and about ten people already posted they liked it
If you like, rec it people.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
Why bother recing something that addresses what is likely to be a non-event?
I’ll tell you what is really crazy – believing anything that Adrian Wojnarowski reports concerning the Blazers. The guy has bashed Pritchard more than once, so it is hardly likely that he’s tapped into inside information from the team. And all that crapola about “Blazer coaches privately insisting to confidants throughout the league” should be a dead giveaway that Wojnawhoski is talking out his ass. Unless of course you think it is entirely reasonable for the Blazer coaching staff to bad mouth their players in private to people on other teams or to telegraph their plans and intentions.
hakkaa päälle !
even one game with Miller starting at the point and Brandon playing the 2
For the record, Nate did start Miller-Roy for 2 preseason games. They didn’t go well (Roy wasn’t trying particularly hard, and Miller wasn’t in shape) and Nate scuttled the RAMBO lineup and went back to the default. But I agree, there’s no way this “trial” was an adequate test of the Miller-Roy starting backcourt. The fact that the team defended so well (7-2, low 40% OFG%) with the 3 guard lineup and then got “scored on” again after Andre was removed from the starting lineup should argue towards trying Miller, instead of Blake
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
more than crazy
I so agree with you….the fact that we haven’t started Miller w/o Blake for at least 10 CONSECUTIVE GAMES is such an embarrassment !! I am so tired of the Brandon show…how can we even know the potential and possibilities? Isn’t Nate CURIOUS? He’s started everything but the kitchen sink but yet he won’t start Miller….I just don’t get it….does Blake have a secret of Nates? We are acting like the small market we are…..
Consider the source.
Wojnarowski is a hack with what appears to be a vendetta against Kevin Pritchard.
Do you really think that he’s going to have insider information from the Blazers? Or that Portland coaches like to run at the mouth about their team, their personnel or their plans and intentions? Seriously, guys like Wojnarowski are able to exist because they develop relationships with a couple of people and trade off of that to make people think they are wired into all of what’s happening in the league. Wojnarowski deals mostly in wild rumor, some of which he makes up himself.
hakkaa päälle !
Wojnarowski is a jerk
He loves to bash on everybody not just the Blazers. That being said, the guy seems to have a ton of sources. He seems to get alot of the breaking news stuff first and he has a relatively high batting average when it comes to rumors. I hate him but I trust him with trade rumors more than the guys at BSPN at least.
Before the trade
A lot of blazer fans on this site said no to miller.
The reasons:
He needs the ball
Can’t shoot a three to space the floor
Clogs the lane by attacking
Isn’t great on defense.
He is definitely a great guard but I’m not sure he’s a great fit. I watched games where at the end of the game MILLER was charging and putting up the shot instead of Roy.
I think ultimately all the fears have proven to be true. Turkyeglue likely would have been a better fit because his skill set matched (but dear GOD the overpay!) and would have been followed up by a trade of some sort.
For the style of ball we need, the point guard has to hit the three point, play defense, feed players and oden, and frankly I’d like someone who could play half and full court for fast breaks.
Blake, on his game, fits that to a certain extent. Batum filled in for his defensive weakness and it worked well.
After this MIller experiment (if this is all true and Miller is a problem), then I lean towards Hinrich and overpaying if we need to. I haven’t paid attention to him this year, so I’d need to read up on him, but in past years he’s Blake 2.0, and we can use a Blake 2.0.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
by ratbastird on Dec 4, 2009 8:43 AM PST reply actions 3 recs
Agreed. Take a loss on Miller and get Heinrich if that is what is needed.
Might have to throw in a young guy or a 1st rounder to make up for this mess. Ship Blake ASAP afterwards if that is what happens to go down.
I don't know if i'd ship Blake ASAP
I know his weaknesses, but I also think he’s under appreciated. If kirk came, he’d HAVE to start though. No ifs ands or buts or there’s no point in the trade.
I might keep blake as back-up with Bayless as third until next year. If it didn’t work out maybe then i’d trade, but Blake is a good guard, just not the GREAT guard blazer fans seem to want. He fits well and is good injury insurance as well as back-up.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
If kirk came, he’d HAVE to start though. No ifs ands or buts or there’s no point in the trade.
The same argument was made re: the MIller signing
Blake is a good guard, just not the GREAT guard blazer fans seem to want. He fits well and is good injury insurance as well as back-up
Agreed, but the odds of Steve ever becoming a reserve PG in PDX now seem remote
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I wouldn't have said that Miller had to start
I thought Blake was a better fit for the first unit and Miller for the second.
That is not working so well at the moment so I hope MIller starts soon and we can see how that flows.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
-miller +hinrich wont solve anything
i’m a big hinrich supporter, but unless you get blake off the team nothing will change. nate will probably still start blake over hinrich.
Cloudy is Sergio. Makes other people look good, can’t score himself. -Cablinasian
Greg Postertag is probably wielding a jack hammer of a Wenis - AK1984
by Philthyanimal on Dec 4, 2009 8:54 AM PST up reply actions
That WOULD be a problem
I think Nate starts Blake because he’s one of hte few people I see busting… hustling hard on the court. If I had guys hustling, I’d send them out too instead of people who weren’t.
I don’t see Hinrich not starting unless he doesn’t hustle.
That said… Hinrich should come in with the starting spot his. Unlike miller, there’s no style of play difference or ball sharing issues. There’s a learning curve that could be painful, but put him in the seat and let him go on the fly.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
Blake may hustle
but that’s not a good enough reason to start someone.
"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."
It is if you want a team
leading by example and following the example for playing time.
I may have an elite worker that I’m managing, but if he’s slacking a lot and other younger workers pick up on his example, I’m going to have an issue if I keep him because he’s teaching the younger workers it’s okay. Eventually you have a culture where it’s okay.
Our culture is still young and it’s important to keep forming what you want.
This would be my argument as to why Blake should start even if it’s not clicking.
That said, I do want to see miller given a few tries.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
Not sure what you do for a living ...
… but when it comes to working for a living, most people take the hard working over achiever over the highly talented under achiever 9 time out of 10.
hakkaa päälle !
Miller doesn't start because he plays so differently
Not because Nate loves Blake. I’m not sure how anyone can still have that assumption. There are very specific and rational reasons that Nate’s starting Blake, and they’re pretty good reasons too.
Hinrich, however, plays much like Blake but better defensively. Kirk brings the things needed to start (eg a 3 point shot). He would start. There’s no chance it doesn’t happen.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
but bringing in a guy whose offensive skill set
does not include getting the ball to a massive post presence in a usable position with a player like Oden on the floor would be just as bad a mistake. And if you are correct and Hinrich offensive game is the same as Blake’s then he does not have the ability to get good passes down into the post, they come in late and too low.
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
I agree..except I'd change "probably" to "most likley"
Heck, I’m not even sure CP3 would start over Blake at this point.
Exactly right about Miller. There was no surprise.
Plenty of people (including people outside of PDX) saw Miller’s poor fit for this team. That is why I had hoped that he would lead the 2nd unit and make that a great Blazers advantage. Well, that hasn’t worked out either (obviously Roy’s fault somehow).
I do think Miller will get another shot at starting if we lose the Houston game. Nate’s running out of options. Call that Plan C. If that doesn’t work out we move to Plan D (trade Miller) after the ides of December and Bayless may finally get his chance.
I’m don’t know if Hinrich has anything left in the tank. The only times I’ve seen him on TV this year it didn’t look like he had a lot left even if we could get him.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 4, 2009 1:40 PM PST up reply actions
So, what was actually said at the Dinner with Andre?
How was Andre able to make a case that he should be playing with the Blazers? Did KP point out to him at that time that he would likely be coming off the bench? – Elgin
Travis Outlaw, the Funnel Cake of the Blazers
Only 3 people know what was said at Dinner with Andre.
At the Miller press conference Nate said (while sitting next to Miller) that Blake was his starter. Ordinarily I don’t care what Nate says publicly (especially in July) because most of what coaches and GM’s say publicly is PC or PR-speak. But in this case he repeated it consistently right up to the first day of the season. So he either really believed it all along, or he didn’t like the chemistry with Miller and Roy in the preseason.
But what does it really matter? Miller had no where else to go. He had a one year offer from Philly, and reportedly NY might have made him a one-year offer. That was it (according to Miller’s own words on several occasions), no one else had any interest in him as a FA. It was PDX or take a one-year deal at age 33. Each time Miller was asked about coming to the Blazers, he gave essentially that same answer. To Miller’s credit (I suppose) that question from reporters is suppose to get an answer about how excited he was to be coming to such a great up and coming team with such great players, blah, blah, blah. Instead, Miller always gave the honest answer – this is business and it was the only decent offer I had. Unfortunately, he was also the Blazer’s last option in an unfortunate FA offseason. Thus far, a marriage made somewhere other than heaven.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 4, 2009 3:31 PM PST up reply actions
Miller always gave the honest answer – this is business and it was the only decent offer I had
That’s not the story the Courtside guys had. Barrett said Miller approached them outside the hotel in Vegas and was genuinely excited at the opportunity of playing in Portland. They also said that Miller had “scouted” the Blazers last year, in anticipation of pursuing a deal with them. So let’s not be changing the past. Dre wanted the opportunity to play with Portland and he had a lot of suggestions why he could make Portland a better team. Relations didn’t start heading south until training camp, and once Roy got into the "I like Blake’ act the impression that everyone around the team was getting was that the Blake-Miller competition for PG was over before it began.
Now Miller’s going to get his day in court, so to speak. Of course, he’s finally getting his chance to start as the team is decimated by injuries and heading into their toughest stretch of the season. They could all play better and still come out of the next 15 games with a 5-10 record. Maybe it is a showcase, or an act of desperation, like when Nate started Rudy in game 6 against Houston. Or perhaps Nate’s head cold and ruptured achilles has weakened his Blake-resolve…who knows? They might as well roll the dice, because Lord knows the last couple of weeks has been the worst stretch of Blazer performances since the spring of ’08
Can Miller turn the tide?…well at least he’s going to get a chance to try
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
ratbastird (above) gives one of the best succinct summaries of the Miller experiment that I've seen .. rec'd
Yes, Miller is a very good PG for certain. But, if the Miller experiment does fall through, the responsibility would not just be on Brandon and Nate. Remember that it wasn’t just Nate’s or KP’s “gushing” that brought Miller over durng the summer. Miller also tried hard to sell himself to Nate and KP back during that summer dinner in Vegas.
Not many are talking about Miller’s style of communicating. Once Miller joined the team, he didn’t exactly go out of his way to talk with everyone and get on the same wavelength. And it really didn’t help to complain about not starting to the national media instead of going directly to the team for a private conversation.
Shouldn’t at least half or more of the Miller-Roy adjustment be done by Miller as the new guy on the team? It would work better if he reached out to Brandon and Nate, and had more of the feeling of being open and approachable for in-depth conversations off the court. Miller’s adjusting to the team is not just about talking on the court. Miller and Brandon and Nate really need to communicate and understand each other by getting to know where the other is coming from off the court. It strikes me that the lack of in-depth communication off the court is largely due to Miller’s personality.
Don’t get me wrong .. in many situations there’s nothing wrong with being quiet. It’s part of personality and doesn’t make anyone a “bad” guy. But if the the Miller-Roy “chemistry experiment” does not work out, a lot of it will have to do with the “I just play and then go home” persona that Miller exhibits. This failure to reach out and communicate is not noticed a lot. It’s too bad that Brandon is being blamed for a lot the failure to failure to communicate.
That Woj article felt like a lot of fluff to me.
Thanks Ben for pointing this piece out, maybe it is just me but Woj doesn’t seem to have alot of new stuff in this. The only thing new I read was this line..
Blazers coaches have privately insisted to confidants throughout the league that Miller isn’t working out, and the belief is that Pritchard is testing the market on Miller’s worth
Does Nate and his assistant coaches really go around talking bad about their players behind their backs to other teams? That seems like something no coach would do. Woj seemed to read or hear about the same rumblings we have read or heard about here in Portland and then just wrote down his point of view. While I think it could come to pass that Miller is traded even this season, I don’t really know if that is much news. Since the Portland media has been saying that for some time now.
That said, Miller being traded could be very good for the Blazers, depending on who they get in return. But right now the team is very thin up front so I don’t see how KP can’t make at least a stop gap move.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
Yeah
that was my thought too. Not only that, but if he’s not working out WHY would you undermine the trade process by admitting that?
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
i HATE people who leak
things they’re not supposed to. I support controlled leaks, but not something liek that which would undermine the organization.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
Fails the smell test, doesn't it?
If Miller isn’t working out, the last thing our coaches would be doing is talking down his value. Doesn’t make sense.
"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5
Clearly, our coaches hate KP and the organization...
That’s why they’re doing it. Isn’t AWOJ one of the guys who trumpeted the idea that KP and Nate dislike one-another?
I would like to agree
And I am no big fan of Woj, but you do have to hand it to him. He is usually first on the scene with accurate information about dealings (signings, trades, etc….). So to me I think it does pass the smell test.
"I saw him in the face" Sergio's quote on the latest alley-oop to Rudy.
by blazermaniac32 on Dec 4, 2009 10:39 AM PST up reply actions
Nope
We might be discussing a trade, but our coaches aren’t going around talking Miller down. That’s rubbish.
I’m not saying some high-placed source didn’t say that to him. They probably did. But they are lying, either to make mischief, or to try to lower Miller’s trade value because they want him themselves.
In other words, when I say it doesn’t pass the smell test, I’m not saying he lied or made it up himself, or that the idea that Miller might be traded doesn’t have substance. I couldn’t know that.
But the idea that our coaches are going around saying that isn’t credible.
"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5
I think we are on the same page
I agree that I doubt our coaches would say anything, but I do think that Andre has been or is being shopped. His sources (whomever they are) seem to be pretty darn golden and I am always amazed at how accurate his tweets are.
"I saw him in the face" Sergio's quote on the latest alley-oop to Rudy.
by blazermaniac32 on Dec 4, 2009 1:45 PM PST up reply actions
I don't have to admit any such thing .... until I see it.
What has he been “first on the scene” of?
hakkaa päälle !
It's not exactly a secret that it isn't working out.
Usually by the time things like this are printed the insiders all know. But in this case, who doesn’t already know?
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 4, 2009 3:35 PM PST up reply actions
Woj seemed to read or hear about the same rumblings we have read or heard about here in Portland and then just wrote down his point of view
A-Woj has his league sources (Warkentine) and he generally will write articles that put KP in a “negative” light. This is one of them. But it doesn’t mean that such a deal is not being discussed, and that Miller’s trade value has been “diminished” because of other published reports (Spears, etc)
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
ugh
bayless leaves over my dead body
Start Andre (in a 2 guard lineup)
"Good defense always beats bad offense."-Al Iannazzone, Yes Network
Provided the Miller rumor is true:
If Nate really wanted Andre and we trade him, does that hurt his ability in the future to request specific personnel moves? Because I think it does. Nate is a good coach and with young talent in their first three years, he seems like the perfect man for the job. But I have to admit. My total confidence in him has been shaken a little with our recent struggles and Miller not adjusting. Anyone else feel like KP will take Nate’s input on trades and free agency with a little more hesitation in the future? Also, it’s not like Blake is playing that much better right now. But maybe Miller is enough of a disruption for him that he can’t focus properly as our starter? I donno. Drama should be high in December. Hope if we do move Miller it’s done before our tough road trip late this month.
"Sometimes that light at the end of the tunnel is a train."
-- Charles Barkley
does that hurt his ability in the future to request specific personnel moves?
If Miller is dealt this quickly after being signed, I think it casts doubt on Nate and KP’s ability to identify which kind of new players will best “fit” with their current young stars. Sure, you “never know what you’re going to get” until you plug the new guy into the mix, but as a fan I would hope that some of these “playing alongside Brandon” questions would have been gone over before Andre signed on the dotted line, last July.
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
well, we tried 2 other moves first
then, we went out and got the best asset we could afford with the money. Think of Andre as an affordable, talented, capspace holder. He wasn’t plan A, B, or C really (that was a quick signed David Lee), Andre was plan D. If you can’t get who you want first off, get the best asset you can. I think that the Turkoglu crap cost us a shot at Ariza since Ariza’s agent was an idiot and quickly committed to the Rockets for the MLE.
I think that the Blazers agent board was something like:
Turkoglu
Millsap
Ariza
Lee
Lopsided trade
Miller
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
hmmm...
that’s a move for the sake of making a move if that’s the case… I don’t like that.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
The alternative is giving up the cap space
Having fewer assets to trade.
"Its not that I can't read and write, its just that I don't like to read and write."
-Charlie
It was a move to preserve $7M in cap space. It had to be done.
Hopefully, Miller would work out, but if not we get to use the $7M in salary space again later in a Miller trade. If you just keep the cap space it would have died in Feb. With Miller the $7M in salary space lasts up to 3 years. I doubt the Blazers figured they would use it this Dec (and they still may not), but it was too big a gamble to risk losing the cap space by Feb.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 4, 2009 3:43 PM PST up reply actions
throw in KP's aversion to disrupting the chemistry at midseason
and I think we’ve captured the reason why Portland felt they “had” to sign Miller in July…little did KP know that signing Andre would affect the team’s chemistry in November
the warning that Philly fan gave us early this season re: Miller is sounding prophetic. I’m not pinning this solely on Andre—a lot of the blame has to fall at the feet of Roy and Nate—but if there was a scenario where KP could’ve handled the RLEC generated capspace any worse than the thing have worked out this far, it’s hard to imagine. Even if he had traded for Jefferson or Vince Carter last February (which I was not in favor of, at the time) Portland would’ve had a better chance at getting more in return for those guys than what I suspect they’ll receive for Andre, regardless of his contract status. Maybe trading for Shaq would’ve been worse, or signing Hedo to that 5/50 deal. But besides those possibilities, I think KP has been rolling snake-eyes for well over a year, now (gotta include the Darius Mile’s debacle in there, too)
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
The problem is
Unless Nate or BRoy go to another team, there won’t be anybody else that would want Blake.
That's not true
a number of teams would love blake and what he offers. It’s only blazer fans that like to bash him.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
Other teams might want him as a backup, but not as a starter.
Yahoo Sports had him as the worst starting pg in the league last year. And that was Blake’s career year.
That is likely
but a lot of fans seem to literally HATE Blake right now. He can offer a lot to a team. Yes he’s been off his game, but that doesn’t mean he’ll stay there. He’s a nice fit for us with how he plays (when he hits the three) and a replacement will need to be like him but better.
Also… he hustles a LOT more than I see other blazers doing. I’m more upset by other players than blake. I like his effort and I haven’t seen that from other players.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
I don't think it's hate for Blake, but frustration for what this team could be.
Blake needs to be in a situation where he’s not playing 25 minutes a game. I think he makes for a great backup. But as a starter, he’s holding the Blazers back. He gives effort, that’s for sure. But he doesn’t have the right skill set to help the Blazers get to the next level. I wish he did, but it’s just not there. Since Nate doesn’t seem to want to bring him off the bench, it’d be better if Steve just left.
Yes! Yes! In the face!
I don't think people hate Blake
I’m just frustrated that he’s starting over someone who’s career stats Blake has no hope of matching, save for the three point shot.
The only explanation seems to be things that are totally out of Blake’s hands too. Brandon Roy’s attitude about having to “sacrifice” and McMillan’s absolute paranoia about turn overs and not calling plays for every single possession of every single game.
"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."
Oddly Blake is sort of the victim in all of this
I agree, I don’t hate blake, but I think Miller ought to get a shot at running the starting offense.
Of course with all of this drama surrounding Miller and Blake I am starting to gravitate toward the start Bayless movement…
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
Agreed.
It’s really Roy that wants Blake starting. It’s not Blake’s fault and I do not blame Blake for this one bit.
Blake is a team guy and will do what ever the coaches ask him, be it starting, coming off the bench, or selling the popcorn. Unfortunately, he can’t win here because his deficiencies are his backup’s strengths and also hampers Greg’s growth. The fact that the backup is a superior established player doesn’t help, either.
It is that people hate blake
They need a scapegoat.
People see a second Roy in Miller but the thing is Miller isn’t close to Roy and drive and kick players starting with a big body in the lane all of the time won’t fit in the system.
Blake is like dating the cute girl
she’s cute. Great personality. But she’s not a super model like in the magazine.
Blazer fans want that supermodel. They seem to not care about personality or whether we’d get along with her. They care about her height, her perfect teeth, her perfect shape, her perfect skin.
The cute girl can’t compare if you don’t appreciate the fact that the cute girl likes to go snowboarding with you while the super model may spend 5 hours in teh tub with egg in her hair.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
by ratbastird on Dec 4, 2009 8:57 AM PST up reply actions 4 recs
my point
is that you can always want for more
or you can appreciate what you have.
The blazers need more, but Blake isn’t the end of the world people make him out to be.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
yep the target of people's frustrations
Of course the point guards main responsibility is running the offensive sets and frankly our offensive sets this year have been, well, offensive.
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
Excellent analogy
The Nate and Blake vitriol simply miss the chemical elements in play. They may look great together, but when tested, they crumble.
Personally, I’d prefer my gf to stay in the tub while I snowboard. She’s not really fast enough, and while I like having her with me, it cramps my feet to wait so much. It’s actually making me think about switching back to skis.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
the heat want him
allegedly
bayless leaves over my dead body
Start Andre (in a 2 guard lineup)
"Good defense always beats bad offense."-Al Iannazzone, Yes Network
by thomasikehara on Dec 4, 2009 9:20 AM PST up reply actions
Blake would be easier to trade than Miller.
Blake could go to a lot of teams and fit in well as a backup, plus he has an expiring contract so he is easy part with if he doesn’t work out. Miller has already demonstrated that he “needs” to start, not quite in an AI way, but the PDX experience is going to be a yellow (not quite red yet) flag for a coach looking for help that he might want to come off the bench. His age and 2-year $7M contract is a factor and he already shows signs of slowing down. The “he always starts slow” stuff starts to wear thin on a 33-year old body 20 games into the season.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 4, 2009 3:57 PM PST up reply actions
that's true, in theory
but there’s so much love for Steve coming from KP, Roy and Nate it’s difficult to see Steve on the move. KP was not happy when he dealt Blake the first time, and it took quite a bit of adversity before Nate relented and finally broke up the Blake-Roy starting backcourt
I think KP will have to get bowled over with an offer for Steve before he’ll deal him. OTOH, I don’t think it will take that much for another team to acquire Andre, probably just a reserve SF-PF at this point. I suspect their are a few GMs out there who wouldn’t mind dumping a 7 mil long-term contract in return for Miller’s “only” 2 years guaranteed deal?
Here’s a few names
Marvin Williams, signed through 2014
(ATL could start Crawford and use Miller/Bibby as tandem “old vet” PGs)
Jason Maxiell, signed through 2013
(Prince is coming back, Stuckey and Miller at PG? This I wouldn’t mind…)
Vladimir Radmanovic, similar deal to Miller, once played for Nate up in Seattlte
(this would make me puke, but you never know…)
James Posey, signed through 2012
(Paul would probably have to get hurt for this to happen, and I would not be happy)
Darko Milicic, expiring contract
(someone mentioned this on the sidebar, NY shouldn’t desire Miller’s 2010 salary)
Nick Collison, similar deal to MIller
(AK1984 would have kittens, but why does OKC need Miller?)
Andres Nocioni, signed through 2013
(Sac-town would do this in a heartbeat, even though they don’t need Andre)
Andrea Bargnani, signed through 2015
(yes it’s silly, but if Calderon were to get hurt and Toronto wanted to dump AB’s LTC…?)
Antawn Jamison, signed through 2012
(KP would have to throw in Outlaw’s salary, please don’t let KP be a AJ fan!)
There are some real stinkers in there, but desperate times could call for desperate measures. We can all dream of a Blake for Bass deal, or a Caron Butler coup…but when the smoke settles don’t be surprised if we get stuck with someone similar to the names up above
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Nice work, and I agree Blake isn't likely to be traded,
I was just responding to someone up above that he would be difficult to trade, and that’s not so.
If Miller gets traded it could include Webster for a high quality SF or a SF/PF. If we could get a starting SF, then Nic would be a backup SF (the Turk scenario) and Webster would need to go because i think Outlaw is re-signing here.
There’s also a chance of a Miller plus Rudy trade. But that would have to be a blockbuster deal for us if it happened before the Feb deadline.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 5, 2009 7:44 AM PST up reply actions
If Miller gets traded it could include Webster for a high quality SF
Trade Marty Blazer? I can see what you’re thinking from the financial angle, Webster’s 4 mil/year contracted added to Miller + capspace cold bring a star-caliber SF back th PDX, but I suspect that right now KP doesn’t want to move any extra bodies if he doesn’t “have” to (they barely have enough to practice with, as it is) Maybe at the deadline, if it looks like Btum is nearing his return and they have Mills/Pend for practice fodder, KP might do a 2 for 1 involving #23. As good of a trooper as Martell has been, his game doesn’t appear to be meshing with the big 3 on the court as well as you’d think it would, on paper. But to be fair, he’s only been “back” for a couple of months and it would really stink to deal him away and watch him flourish elsewhere (Jermaine O’Neal syndrome)
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I'm thinking if we could get a top quality SF or better a SF/PF
for Miller+Webster that could play 32-35 minutes a night as a starter, we would better off than we are now and better off for the future. It would open a roster spot so KP could add another veteran free agent or take back some useful filler in the deal. We would be trading $6.7M + $4.3 = $11.0M so we could take back up to $13.75M, which opens lots of possibilities. With a SF playing 32-35 minutes a night we could get by easily with Roy and Rudy given Nate likes to play a 3-guard lineup as well. It would be perfect if the player could also play backup PF to make more minutes for Batum when he comes back. Eventually Webster or Batum or Rudy has to go anyway, there just isn’t enough SF/3-guard minutes to go around. Plus I still think Outlaw re-signs this summer so we might as well make a big SF move with Webster now.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 5, 2009 2:56 PM PST up reply actions
well, so much for that
With Oden out KP will have to turn one of his extra guards into a big man. Mama told me there would be seasons like this…
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
No - the problem is both Blake and Miller are the wrong point guard
Because of the new hand-check rules, the league has changed. You either have a really good defensive specialist or a quick penetrating guard. Blake and Miller have neither of those skills and are the key to why the Blazers are struggling to compete. The defense breaks down too easily, puts too much pressure on the bigs to cover, and doesn’t put enough pressure on the other team’s defense with effective dribble penetration.
The only good thing that has happened this year, is that Bayless is getting some minutes. He is the only PG that might be able to help us, but really needs to add to his game before he could be a starter.
The only good thing that has happened this year, is that Bayless is getting some minutes.
Is Jerryd getting more minutes this year, than last? Probably if this November were compared to last November, but probably not if this November were compared to last February
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I'm not sure whether Andre Miller is really involved but I'm excited to see what Pritchard does next.
It's a tune-out fest.
I suspect KP is about to get slapped with a strong dose of NBA reality
It’s hard to make good trades when you’re the GM who has the urgent need
It’s better to “hold” what you’ve got until someone else is desperate for it. But if the team continues to struggle, KP may have no choice if he wants the W-L record to maintain pre-season expectations
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
KP is not likely to be the GM with the most urgent need to make a trade right now. Despite this three game slide, the Blazers are still in the drivers seat. There is plenty of time, players will come back from injuries and most of them are still very good trade assets despite their perceived weaknesses.
I would say that teams like the Timberwolves, Nets or even the Heat want to make a move to improve their rosters more than the Blazers
by the end of December KP's team may be in that "desperate" category.
If Portland is below .500 (which is a realistic expectation, unless they inexplicably catch fire and blaze through this tough stretch of the schedule) and the pressure mounts to return to the post season (and why shouldn’t that be the case?) then KP could be “forced” to prematurely pull the trigger
I think the biggest factor is the health of LMA’s knee. He was the one Blazer who the team couldn’t afford to play without, for any amount of time. Even if Outlaw was healthy KP would’ve needed to upgrade the PF if he had “lost” LMA for a piece of the season
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Van Gundy
wouldn’t put up with Roys Prima Donna BS… KP while your shopping find us a coach
by slim503 on Dec 4, 2009 9:20 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
I'd love Jeff Van Gundy as coach
yes i would
I'd love to see Van Gundy get a chance with the talent on our team.
Realistically I don’t think Nate trusts his players. He’s treating the team like they’re all a bunch of rookies; yanking them out for no good reason half the time.
If Nate had taken over the team after the initial development phase, I think he would have been a good fit, because that is an entirely different relationship dynamic between player and coach. Since he’s been here and been the one to develop the players, I just don’t see him recognizing the growth and changing his style of coaching to match the growth.
Not yelling all the time in practices doesn’t count as change to me either. That has everything to do with the people you’re having to deal with and their attitudes, not their ability to play the game.
"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."
KP's not going to deal Miller this year.
He hates making in-season trades, as we all know, and I just don’t see a deal for Miller happening. As has been pointed out above, Miller hasn’t even been fully tested as a piece on this team.
Nor is KP, who has time and time and time again resisted, going to go out of his way to pick up a backup 4. He has to regard The Inferno’s emergence as very promising and Juwon’s play as fully satisfactory. Plus he has Pendy coming back. Tyrus Thomas?/!?! Does anybody really believe that story?
This who story is yet another example of a national level Canzano stoking the fires because guessing isn’t frowned upon and guessing wrong isn’t punishable.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
i suspect that IF there is a trade for a forward
it’s more for one of the small variety, not the power variety.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
a 4-3, who can shoot it
they want Travis 2.0
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Admittedly, I don't know jackdung about this Blazers team
since leaving the cozy confines of Portland.
But even an ignoramus such as myself could foresee the potential for serious problems at the time the Miller signing was announced. Back in July I expressed my doubts as to how Miller would fit with the team and concluded that:
The sense I got upon hearing this news is that the Blazer Brass felt compelled to do something… anything… after losing out on Hedo and Millsap… Beyond that, the rationale for this signing escapes me.
I bring up that earlier post not to showcase my exceptional oracular powers. I merely referenced it as a means of illustrating how sadly predictable this latest development (if true) really was. So predictable that it was even foreseeable to a self-confessed know-nothing such as myself.
If nothing else, we should all be able to agree that KP targeted really poor stylistic fits this past summer.
Dear Paul Allen:
Fire Nate McMillan & hire Jeff Van Gundy.
Sincerely,
AK1984
by AK1984 on Dec 4, 2009 9:48 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
It's possible he also realised they were poor fits but was counting on some flexibility in his coaches system.
But he should have seen that coming.
It's a tune-out fest.
They had to sign him
Fan’s were tired of hearing about cap space and lopsided trades. It was like a $7 million dollar coupon that was about to expire and they had to use it or lose it.
Start Andre Miller NOW to showcase him for a trade.
The problem is that it wouldn't have been lost until July 1st, 2010.
But no one had the patience to wait that long. Not even Kevin Pritchard.
Nobody ever listens to me. (Gratuitous link added to made myself look like Nostradamus, conveniently ignoring all the times I failed in my prognosticating.)
ἰδοὺ ἐνίκησεν ὁ λέων ὁ ἐκ τῆς φυλῆς Ἰούδα, ἡ ῥίζα Δαυείδ...
Καὶ εἶδον ἐν μέσῳ τοῦ θρόνου καὶ τῶν τεσσάρων ζώων καὶ ἐν μέσῳ τῶν πρεσβυτέρων ἀρνίον ἑστηκὼς ὡς ἐσφαγμένον,
That doesn't work
Free agency signing date is July 28th. They could only sign the free agents from this past off season and if they told the fans to wait until the trade deadline, fans would probably burn down One Center Court.
Start Andre Miller NOW to showcase him for a trade.
fans are stupid
why did kp listen!!!
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
But no one had the patience to wait that long. Not even Kevin Pritchard.
This is true. Based on past behavior (RLEC) I had no confidence that KP would make a mid-season deal with his excess capspace. I also felt that as the deadline neared, KP might get “lowball” offers for that 7 mil, because rival GMs would know that he would have to “use it or lose it”
With 20/20 hindsight, we can now say that it would’ve been “better” if KP had waited. But at the time few of us could’ve anticpated the Miller-Oden, Blake-Roy starting lineup debacle
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
which is kind of funny considering
that he has generally waited too long in most of his trade areas – failing to maximize the trade vale of guys like Outlaw, Sergio, etc.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
well, sort of
KP is patient during the season, but there were some Bedgers who compared the Blazer’s GM to a drunken sailor when he went so hard after Hedo during the first week in July
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Miller won't be the only one
If it is true that he is on the block, does anyone really think that KP can trade him and not have to give up one or more of Bayless, Dante, Jeff or Rudy, and/or rights to a Euro or two? No other GM will pass on the opportunity to get a lot more than they give, it would be a move of desperation.
"Better, not good, but better." - Herb Brooks
One idea
For the record, I’m firmly in the start Miller camp and don’t want to see him traded. If we are going to trade him though, we’re not going to have all that many options. He’s a good player with a reasonable contract, but the only teams that would want him are ones who plan to contend either this year or next. To me the best place for Miller (other than here) is Miami. Miami wants to contend next year, after they resign Wade and another big free agent (most likely Bosh). But they have a very young, inexperienced PG (Chalmers). Miami might be willing to part with Chalmers and James Jones in exchange for Miller. That’s not great, but it’s the best deal I can think of that might actually be possible, at least without throwing in more guys.
www.blazerguy.com
Wow.
Trading Miller’s assists and passing skills for Jone’s knee problems and another pg that can’t help us now. That’s desperation if I ever saw it.
"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."
You're way underselling Mario Chalmers, but I agree bringing back James Jones isn't the answer.
Dear Paul Allen:
Fire Nate McMillan & hire Jeff Van Gundy.
Sincerely,
AK1984
Wouldn't the incentive for the Heat to trade Chalmers
be the fact that he is young and inexperienced?
Isn’t avoiding those problems with Bayless the very reasons we signed Miller in the first place?
Chalmers may be a good guard in a few years, but then Bayless may learn how to distribute the ball more reliably in that time period also. How does trading for Chalmers do anything for us now?
"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."
Mario Chalmers is so much better than Jerryd Bayless that it's not even funny.
Dear Paul Allen:
Fire Nate McMillan & hire Jeff Van Gundy.
Sincerely,
AK1984
Agreed.
Not saying I want to do this trade. Just think it’s probably the best offer we’d get.
www.blazerguy.com
Mario Chalmers would be a great fit at the 1 fit in this offense and can play solid defense, although the ...
fact that he’d work well with Brandon Roy is exactly why the Miami Heat will keep hang onto him as Dwyane Wade’s backcourt running mate.
Dear Paul Allen:
Fire Nate McMillan & hire Jeff Van Gundy.
Sincerely,
AK1984
Consider the source
There may be fire behind this smoke, but there’s reason to hope otherwise. Adrian Wojo is a noted Blazer-hater (especially a KP-hater).
However, if this rumor IS true—that Miller is on the block—that would be bad, bad news. The whole “this is Brandon’s team” thing is a cancer. I’ve ALWAYS hated that myth: that one of your players has to be “The Man.” What a crock! All it does is create a monster—a player who thinks he’s bigger than the team.
The most disturbing thing I’ve heard out of Roy’s mouth (granted, it came via Jason Quick) was that his teammates feed off of him, so if he’s uncomfortable, they’ll play badly. Therefore, presumably, Brandon’s comfort must be maintained at all costs.
This reminds me of the “too big to fail” rationale for bailing out those Wall Street giants—to the tune of trillions (not billions) of taxpayer dollars. Brandon is not “too big to fail.” If he can’t play with a real point guard and a real center, that’s tough—he needs to learn to do so or get traded like anyone else.
Having Roy dominate the ball the past three seasons was a necessary evil created by the lack of other effective offensive options on the Blazers. Now that the team has more weapons, Roy’s role should be reduced—whether he’s thrilled with the idea or not.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Dec 4, 2009 10:09 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
I don't think Roy's roll would necessarily be reduced significantly
if he were to learn to play off the ball more. As Ben’s post on the front page states, Brandon is excellent at shooting off of screens. He’s got the talent to be the team’s main offensive threat along-side Oden, he just needs to make a few adjustments.
I’ve been saying this since there were rumors about Miller this last summer. Miller passing to a moving Roy will create beautiful offense once they finally get past the problem of Roy always needing to be the initiator.
"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."
BRoy
I hope Brandon wakes up and realizes that he must change, at least a little bit. He needs to learn how to move without the ball and receive Miller’s passes for easy baskets. ISO’s and jumpers do NOT equal playoff success.
by Original Blazer Fan on Dec 4, 2009 10:33 AM PST reply actions
he's made some comments
reflecting that he’s accepting some responsibility. so, i’m feeling better here.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
Value?
Miller had a hard time getting bites on the FA market last summer, and he’s hardly shown anything in Portland this year that would make him (or his contract) more attractive. How is he going to suddenly draw enough attention now to bring in a quality wing? What am I missing?
well
he had a hard time getting bites because he was asking for 10mil
everyone thought he was a pretty good deal at just under 7 like we got him.
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
Durant for Roy and Blake/Miller
After OKC renounces their FA rights to Fortson/Swift/… they would have the cap to swallow Brandon’s poison pill and it works.
Ceterum censeo Lakers esse delendam
At least that trade wouldn't hurt our defense.
ἰδοὺ ἐνίκησεν ὁ λέων ὁ ἐκ τῆς φυλῆς Ἰούδα, ἡ ῥίζα Δαυείδ...
Καὶ εἶδον ἐν μέσῳ τοῦ θρόνου καὶ τῶν τεσσάρων ζώων καὶ ἐν μέσῳ τῶν πρεσβυτέρων ἀρνίον ἑστηκὼς ὡς ἐσφαγμένον,
Rudy and Durant?
now there’s a defensive dynamo if I ever heard one
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
And the added benefit:
it turns every game into reason to talk about Durant vs Oden.
"Its not that I can't read and write, its just that I don't like to read and write."
-Charlie
I'm a bit frustrated with Brandon Roy, but he's still a world ahead of Kevin Durant as a distributor.
Dear Paul Allen:
Fire Nate McMillan & hire Jeff Van Gundy.
Sincerely,
AK1984
Is this sarcasm or serious?
Just asking (nicely) since there’s no way OKC parts with KD unless someone named LeBron or Howard is involved. CP3 for Roy + ? Maybe, but not Durant.
Why do
fans act like this team has been getting bounced from the first round for 4 years straight and andre miller is the solution? I mean they were an unbelievably young team that made it to the playoffs for the first time last year. I’ll take roy’s track record and not throw him under the bus because it seems he knows what it takes to win. For blazer fans to throw roy under the bus for andre miller is just comical and sad.
No one is "throwing" Roy under the bus, at least not the reasonable people.
I think you’re misinterpreting the desire of most people that want to see Miller start. For me, I’d love to see Roy expand his game and also lengthen his career by getting out of his comfort zone and allowing someone else to direct the offense so he’s not constantly being battered inside and doubled outside. He could be an even greater offensive player if he’d just allow others to create some of the offense for him.
The frustration with Roy is disappointment, not disgust.
"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."
again
there were many posters in here that were really against the andre move for all the things that it could cause. Well those thing have occured now. Why haven’t brandon and dre started together? The answer is pretty obvious. Its why he’s on the block. I can only hope they find someone to take him off their hands.
I don't think we know enough about Miller to say whether he is
a problem in the locker room or a complete pro. Iguadala loved him in Philly, and his reviews in previous stops are a very mixed bag. Is he just an intensely private person, or a bit of a social misfit or a whack job? Who knows? Roy has earned the benefit of the doubt in my mind.
I think it’s too bad Miller didn’t get the chance, but that’s just how it looks fom my nosebleed seats. Who knows what it looks like up close.
ROY AND LA
Sheesh….Brandon did not like LaMarcus at first…took him a year to buddy up to him……I’d say that Brandon has his own “miller-itus”
For some reason...
Roy seems to get along a lot better with players like Blake and Outlaw, players that aren’t close to his talent level, but will cater to his every want. Players like Miller, LA, and Oden on the other hand are a lot harder for him work with. I don’t know if it has to with his personality or just his game limitations. Or maybe a little of both.
Wow. Speculation and assumption.
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
by annthefan on Dec 4, 2009 2:15 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Yes and No.
No one seems to think he works well with Miller and so far he hasn’t worked that well with Oden this year, at least as well as he should. You can’t argue that he’s hesitant to feed Oden and mesh their games together.
This is lame.
Don’t make abrupt moves because of temporary injury.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
I agree, really. People seem to underestimate the importance
of Nic and Travis to the team. Nobody at the 2 or 3 brings the defense that Nic did, and no one at the 3 or 4 off the bench brings the scoring and ability to create their own shot like Travis did.
These are big holes.
I find the Miller hate baffling
And have since Day 1. Baffling.
That said, I agree that Blake “fits better” with the offense we ran last year. By the same token, Joel “fits better” with that offense than Greg does, because he doesn’t ask for the ball.
So if your goal for this team is to replicate the offense we had last year — against a league that has adjusted to guarding Brandon — then absolutely we should trade Miller. And bench Oden, while we’re at it.
That way, if everything breaks right, we can hope to replicate our success of last year for seasons to come.
by Hawthorne Wingo on Dec 4, 2009 12:29 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
True, good teams evolve
while mediocre teams continue to cling to that which gave them a modicum of success in the past. The difference usually comes down to coaching, i.e. the ability (or flexibility) to adapt one’s approach to the unique, ever-changing strengths and weaknesses of your personnel.
As I read it, the question that many here seem to be asking is, “Whither the Blazers?”
A good team would have figured out a way to take advantage of the new possibilities accorded them by an emerging Oden and Miller’s superior passing and post game.
A mediocre team would stubbornly seek to shoehorn those players into a system that worked well in the past but is ill-suited for their strengths and weaknesses.
If the reports are true that Blazer brass are now grumbling behind the scenes that Miller “isn’t working out,” that would suggest that the Blazers (under their current leadership) fall squarely in the latter camp.
by knickfan on Dec 4, 2009 1:22 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
by adjusting
to guarding brandon do you mean throwing 3 defenders at him because thats what teams are doing to him now. Guys have got to hit their shots brandon included.
by BBG on Dec 4, 2009 2:16 PM PST up reply actions
I've come to agree that the team needs to be all about the big three
and no matter how much we love guys like Rudy or Nic or anyone else, their suitability for this team depends entirely on their ability to play a complimentary role to Roy, Oden and Aldridge.
by raoulduke on Dec 4, 2009 12:32 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Shoulda traded
for Gerald Wallace!!! Guy is killin this year….he’d be a perfect fit too. Great on the glass, exceptional defender and can knock down the 3 (not his stongest suit…)….
by abobo84 on Dec 4, 2009 4:07 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Stephen Jackson would have been nice...
Any surprise the Charlotte has been doing well since that trade? Not me. They could actually be in the running for the playoffs now.
The Hornets were asking for Batum
I can’t blame KP for turning that deal down
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Don't let Roy be so dominant in this team
Once again, it should be oden’s team and Oden needs miller’s passing.
Trade Roy if he’s so dominant

























