Synergy Sports & The Blazers
Fair warning: this post contains lengthy discussion of advanced statistical analysis and I know that might not "seem like fun" to certain people. Stick with it, there's a lot to learn and discuss.
Some of you might remember back to this summer when an invisible ninja passed some Synergy Sports reports about the Blazers my way. If you're not familiar with Synergy, it's a subscription service used by NBA teams that provides detailed statistical analysis and comparative ratings of every player and team in the NBA on both offense and defense.
How does it work? Briefly, Synergy charts every play of every NBA game and uses that raw data to calculate advanced metrics and gauge efficiency on a points per possession basis in various situations. As an example, through 20 games this season, Synergy reports that 21% of Portland's offensive possessions end with spot-up jump shots. Portland shoots 40.2% on these spot up jumpers and scores 1.03 points per possession on these shots. As you might guess, Synergy says Steve Blake takes the most spot up jumpers of any Blazer, followed by Martell Webster, Brandon Roy and Rudy Fernandez.
Synergy then takes these raw numbers and efficiency numbers and compares them to the rest of the league. Overall, the Blazers rank in the 72nd percentile of NBA teams in terms of efficiency from spot up jumpers. This earns the Blazers a rank of "Very Good" (the scale runs from "Poor" to "Excellent") compared to the rest of the NBA. Similarly, Synergy tells us that Blake ranks in the 67th percentile of NBA players for spot-up shooting, also earning a "Very Good" rating. It probably doesn't surprise you to learn that Andre Miller ranks in the 42nd percentile for a rating of "Average."
It is well-documented that the Blazers management staff is interested in statistical analysis of players. But what about the coaching staff?
I took up that question with Nate McMillan after Wednesday's practice. McMillan, a noted videotape breakdown fiend, surprised me with his honesty about how his coaching staff uses player breakdowns. "Oh, we show our players their numbers," he said, explaining that his primary focus in using advanced statistics is as a benchmarking tool for charting player development and consistency. "Whether we compare them after 20 games last year where you were, and 20 games where you are now. We also rank our team overall [compared to other teams] and share that information."
McMillan then pointed to a large whiteboard, probably four feet tall by six feet wide, that you've likely seen in the background of pictures taken at the Practice Facility. "That's what that board is over there. It's numbers for the players to see where they are compared to the league standings." The board, filled with writing in various colors, recalls an elementary school teacher's "gold star" positive reinforcement teaching tool. Each player's name is listed and, after each name, a list of numbers follows, charting their progress or lack thereof.
While the board is meant as a general overview and motivational tool, Synergy Sports' profiles (and other proprietary play-charting methods and software) drill down to the most specific of specifics, answering questions like: Does Brandon Roy do better on pick and rolls from the left side, right side or the top? How does he fare from each spot when he uses the pick, avoids the pick, gets doubled, or deals with a switching defense? If he uses the pick, does he do better taking a dribble jumper, a runner or going to the hoop?
The depth is absurd, jaw-dropping the first time you see it. To McMillan, though, these statistics and breakdowns have been a part of his coaching arsenal long enough that they barely warrant mention. "We've got all of that," he says without any reaction as I list off the pick and roll breakdowns to him that I just checked off above. "We have all of that information." Even the runners compared to the dribble jumpers off the left-side single-covered pick and rolls? "All of that is available," he says, almost bored. "All of that is available."
Which brought to mind the old adage: data is only meaningful when acted upon. How exactly does the Blazers coaching staff give meaning to all of these numbers on a day-to-day basis?
Before games, players and coaches review any pertinent personal or team adjustments. Playing against a running team? Adjustments might include: ease off attacking the offensive glass or pick up the primary ball-handler earlier in the shot clock. Players also receive a condensed summary of their opponent's strengths, weaknesses and tendencies prepared by scouting personnel. These reports boil down the advanced numbers to easily-digestable tidbits but also include more subjective analysis drawn from video. Last year's tendency report for Kobe Bryant, for example, warned of his ability to sell pump-fakes and get under defenders to draw fouls. This became a point of emphasis for every Blazers wing.
That's the first level of statistical usage that virtually every NBA player is exposed to. Whether players take to it or not is, according to McMillan, a personal preference. Whether McMillan throws more numbers at his players, in the form of personal instruction or team-based adjustments, generally depends on the player's individual level of interest. "Some guys are stat guys," McMillan notes. "Some guys don't look at that as much." Come on Coach, name some names. "I won't get in to who [really digs into the numbers] but they know. When you're playing well, you know you're playing well. When you're not. You're not." Memorably, Nicolas Batum spent more than five minutes standing outside the Memorial Coliseum's cramped locker room this preseason, carefully studying the scouting report for Grant Hill. (Hill ended up a gametime scratch due to a minor injury.)
McMillan went on to say that Blazers management uses advanced statistics to help target free agents and even as a contract negotiation tool. While he is more open to the use of statistics than you might expect from an old-school NBA player, numbers won't be completely replacing video analysis for McMillan any time soon. "[As a coaching tool], the visual is good. Video is good as well as numbers and stats. We use both. But what's more available to us [and accessible to the players] is the video."
So what happens if the video tells you one thing and the numbers tell you the opposite? "I like video," McMillan concluded. "It is my preference."
What's useful for an NBA coaching staff can be informative for fans too. Over the summer, I used last year's year-end Synergy reports to write this post about Brandon Roy and this post about LaMarcus Aldridge. This year, Synergy has put out even more detailed reports that are updated during the season and are of great help to the media and fans, for two reasons...
- It helps confirm your understanding of player strengths and weaknesses
- It can reveal things about players and player tendencies that you might not have realized or been able to quantify
The rest of this post will focus on that second point.
Click through to read five interesting revelations from Synergy's profiles of the Portland Trail Blazers through the first 20 games of the season.
-- Ben Golliver | (benjamin.golliver@gmail.com) | Twitter
Remember, these conclusions and data apply to the first 20 games of the 2009-2010 NBA season only. The larger the sample size, the stronger the conclusions. Also, remember that these numbers are as objective and complete as you're going to find anywhere. I've presented both positives and negatives below. If your perception differs with Synergy's findings (which probably will happen, it did for me) don't go ranting for 15 minutes on a podcast panic. As I've said before, data is meant as a complementary tool to further discussion.
1. Greg Oden Has Been the #1 Most Efficient Offensive Weapon... and #2 Might Surprise You
Let me guess: you're coming around to the idea that Greg Oden is (or could be) a better second offensive option that LaMarcus Aldridge. You've seen some improvement in Oden's smoothness on offense, you wish Aldridge was a bit more assertive and you can't get enough of Oden's backboard-slapping dunks. Sure, it can be tough to watch him struggle when he's posted up and he's known to throw up an errant hook shot, but Oden has come a long way.
What if I told you, through 20 games, that Synergy's numbers say, unequivocally, that Greg Oden is a more efficient, more consistent offensive weapon than anyone else on his team, Brandon Roy included?
Stat heads that are familiar with John Hollinger's PER rankings might not be surprised by this, as Oden is the only Blazer ranked in the league's top 20. But what if I told you Roy wasn't even in second place?
According to Synergy, Oden ranks in the 83rd percentile in overall offensive effectiveness, earning a ranking of "Excellent." By comparison, Roy is currently in the 61st percentile for a rating of "Good." Aldridge? He falls in the 79th percentile for a rating of "Very Good."
How is this possible?
Primarily Roy struggles here because of his field goal percentage, which is down nearly 4 points from last season. Synergy points out that his numbers when shooting on a low shot clock (4 seconds or less) are particularly bad: he rates in the 19th percentile for such shots. Hollinger joked about flaming bag passes earlier this year. Well, I think we know who the recipient of those has been.
The numbers also show that Roy is only "Average" generating points for himself in the pick and roll (that probably doesn't surprise you), a situation he is often in. Interestingly, Roy has really struggled when set up on the left side pick and rolls when he is coming back towards the middle, confirming a long-held observation that he prefers going left rather than right.
As for Oden's success? It can be attributed to his absurdly high field goal percentage, ability to draw fouls, ability to convert put-backs and his very good shot selection. In the categories where he really struggles (getting doubled in the post, hook shots from the left block), Oden takes very few shot attempts, limiting the damage done to his efficiency. Whether Oden does this because he doesn't have confidence in those situations or because he has recognized that he's not very effective in those situations is up for debate. Either way, his ability to recognize these limitations makes him more valuable as an offensive player than you might think.
The only thing truly holding Oden back offensively is, as you might have guessed, his turnovers. According to Synergy his turnover percentage is almost triple Aldridge's and nearly double Roy's. If those turnovers start to decrease over the course of the season, you're potentially looking at a player who could finish in the 90th percentile or above for offensive effectiveness in just his second season as a pro.
Look out.
2. LaMarcus Aldridge is Underrated on Defense
4. There is a Hole in Greg Oden's Defense
If you listened to this week's Dontonio Wingcast, Kevin Pelton dropped a bomb on me: the Blazers have been more effective defensively when Joel Przybilla is playing than when Greg Oden is playing. This might seem couterintuitive to what we see while watching games. Some players seem to fear Oden, avoiding the lane. When he is challenged, Oden often comes up with blocked shots or at the very least alters the ball-handler's path. His footwork is getting better and he seems to cover a lot of ground. Not to mention, he cleans the glass better than all but a few players in the league.
So how could the Blazers possibly be playing worse defense with Oden on the court?
The answer isn't all that complicated: opposing teams have found other ways to score against him, and score efficiently. The key? Avoid pounding the ball into the paint, attacking Oden directly. By far Oden's best defense, according to the numbers, comes when he's defending one-on-one on the block. He rates out "Very Good" overall in the post, "Excellent" in some situations. Those taking an indirect or face-up approach, however, are enjoying success against him in a number of ways.
When Oden is isolated on his man away from the block, his defense dips sharply to a "Poor" rating and opponents shoot nearly 53% from the field against him. In practice, this includes jumpers, pull-up jumpers and other shots over the top that Oden might hesitate to contest for fear of fouling. When more agile bigs drift even further out -- up to 17 feet -- their field goal percentage still remains above 47%, rating Oden "Below Average" in defending these shots. Even when he defends players in face-the-basket situations in the key and at close range, his opponents shoot nearly 60% from the field and his rating is "Poor." Again, this likely can be attributed, in part, to an unwillingness to commit fouls by fully contesting shots.
The good news is that Oden eliminates many second-chance points by clearing the defensive boards so effectively. But to truly succeed defensively, he will need to improve the aspects listed above. If teams can continue to score so easily by avoiding post-up situations and extending their post player's offensive range, even slightly, his highlight blocked shots and amazing rebounding percentages won't impact wins and losses as much as they should.
This isn't a crisis for Oden by any means. You'd be much more concerned if he was leaking easy buckets right at the basket. As is, he's holding down the blocks quite well already in his second year. More effective defense away from the basket should develop along with increased experience and comfort.
5. LaMarcus Aldridge: Bad Passer?
As mentioned above, LaMarcus Aldridge currently stands as the second most effective Blazer offensively. His shooting percentage is solid and his versatility ensures that he's "Above Average" or better in efficiency in almost every offensive situation that Synergy tracks: spot-up, pick and roll, cutting, transition, put-backs, etc. To no one's great surprise his post-up game needs some work (he rates "Average" and finds himself posting up on more than 40 percent of his offensive touches) but overall he is a solid offensive weapon.
However, according to the numbers, there is something seriously up with his passing. Simply put, the Blazers really, really struggle to score when LaMarcus Aldridge passes the ball out of the post.
For most big men, criticism of their passing focuses on one thing: turnovers. In Aldridge's case, though, he avoids turnovers on 93% of his passes. For a near seven footer, even a fluid freak like Aldridge, that's impressive. But even though his passes hit the mark, they don't lead to buckets.
Look at some of these numbers. Spot up shooters hit just 30.3% overall off of passes from Aldridge when the defense commits a second man to guarding him in the post. It doesn't really matter where he passes from: when he's on the left block they shoot 29.2%, the right block 33.3%. When teams hard double Aldridge -- that is, send a second defender to really harass him with the ball, forcing a pass -- he's even worse. The extra attention doesn't lead to more turnovers but it does lead to even worse shooting once Aldridge decides to pass. Overall, spot-up shooters hit less than 17% of their shots after Aldridge has been hard doubled. Again, it doesn't much matter which block Aldridge is passing from.
For comparison purposes, Aldridge trails Oden in virtually every pass out category that Synergy tracks. Overall, the Blazers shoot nearly 7 percentage points better when Oden passes out than when Aldridge passes out when the defense commits to the post player. Both players struggle when getting hard-doubled, which doesn't happen a lot, but shooters off Oden passes shoot more than 8 percentage points better than when Aldridge is the passer. Oden is also substantially more effective at hitting cutters when the defense commits, rating "Good" and in the 60% percentile. Aldridge cannot be ranked in this category because, according to Synergy, he has only hit 2 cutters for baskets from the post during the first 20 games combined.
One possible explanation for his passing struggles is that Aldridge often uses a lot of the shot clock while methodically dribbling in the post, trying to sense when the defense will come at him. If the defense comes late and he decides to pass rather than shoot, his spot-up shooter is then forced to shoot against the shot clock, which tends to cause more misses.
Another possible explanation is that Aldridge isn't delivering the passes in a matter that is conducive to robotic spot up shooting. When players work on spot up shooting they generally receive passes from the coaching staff that resemble a swing pass from a guard around the perimeter. Aldridge generally isn't throwing that type of pass. Many times he is passing the ball from above his head (7 or 8 feet off the ground, rather than waist height). The downward angle of the pass may reach the shooter below where he might expect to receive a chest pass and thus affect his shooting motion. A pass from Aldridge might also have some extra mustard on it as he tries to beat a rotating defense.
A final explanation could be that, contrary to a Nate McMillan claim last week, Aldridge simply isn't making the right reads and his passes are finding shooters that aren't as open as they should be.
It should also be noted that the Blazers' shooters haven't been great to start this season. But, for whatever reason, Synergy's numbers through twenty games suggest that these shooters have enjoyed noticeably better results when receiving passes out of the post that come from Oden rather than Aldridge.
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if i could rec this a million times i would
thanks Ben
lets go brandon!!!!
by broyposse on Dec 4, 2009 10:04 AM PST reply actions 4 recs
on point #2:
its good to see the numbers to back this up. Since defensive stats are not easy to track and we have to rely on our eyes to tell us a lot about defense, its easy for us to look at LMA’s offensive numbers and forget that he can put that length and speed to use on the other side of the court.
That said, Nic still needs to heal up ASAP. We need him back badly.
"I think twittering and all that facebook crap just makes you a loser." ~ Charles Barkley
by postup on Dec 4, 2009 10:12 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Amazing work Ben, great job.
After reading about what you found from Synergy about the Blazers it all really makes since when you watch the games. (well everything but Joel being better than Greg for the Blazers Defense) LMA’s passing? Remembering just a few games where he runs away from the double team while trying to find someone to pass to, which leads to conjestion and bad shots. From watching I got the feeling that Greg is a pretty good passer already, and could develope into a great passer in time, while LMA struggles in that area, these numbers seem to give fruit to that idea.
Oden has obviously been the best player on the court for the Blazers this year, when he is on the court. But that LMA rates above Roy is pretty crazy. We all know that Roy has been down a bit this year statistically, but LMA hasn’t been lighting the world of fire either, so this is pretty crazy.
Now if only you could tell us what Synergy has to say about the Blake vs Miller debate!
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
Interesting about Blake vs. Miller
that as poorly as we think Blake is shooting this year, they still rate him as Very Good in spot up shooting. Who would have guessed?
The thing is, he needs to be Excellent, not just Very Good.
"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5
Spot up shooting is the one thing the team looks for most from Blake
That is why he needs to be excellent at it, because he doesn’t bring a whole lot of other strengths. Decent but not great on ball handling, passing, defense.
"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5
the offensive looks haggard this year
and the point guards job is to run the offense, so that is another reason why Blake is taking so much heat, particularly with Miller behind im.
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
hmm....roy plays better off the ball?
when can we expect to see miller in the starting line-up?
bayless leaves over my dead body
Start Andre (in a 2 guard lineup)
"Good defense always beats bad offense."-Al Iannazzone, Yes Network
yep
I’ve been saying this for a long time. Roy has all the skills to be a truly exception off-the-ball scorer. He just needs to be paired with a good passer (Miller) and encouraged to move without the ball more. When he realizes that he can score more easily and effectively with the assistance of someone like Miller than he can by himself, the light bulb will go off and the sky’s the limit.
www.blazerguy.com
Exactly
McMillan has said that people need to earn their positions. Dre has had better stats than Blake but Roy’s synergy with Blake has been the trump card. Comfort and synergy are not quantifiable but shooting over 60% when coming off screens is mind-blowing and the best argument yet for Miller in the starting line-up, an argument that Miller would benefit not only Oden and Aldridge but Roy. Yes, this isn’t what Roy likes to do, but he is more effective this year at doing it. If the coach can look at this data soberly, dispassionately, he should put Dre at the helm and Roy at the 2, bring Blake off the bench and win some games.
if Rudy could please
teach Roy how to constantly move around the court, annoying/tiring out his defender and picking up picks he’d get great shots.
but then...
Roy would give even less energy on defense
"Better, not good, but better." - Herb Brooks
One would think 80 million dollars would give Roy enough energy to play hard on both offense and defense...
"Rudy is not everyday a shooter," Fernandez said. "He's defense. He's passes. He's assists."
frankly
I think Ben is reading a lot into those results to come to that conclusion. He’s not counting plays where he catches it when not moving (that’s also off-the-ball) and it doesn’t sound like synergy counts plays where Roy comes off of screens but does not get a pass. Add that to the same size here, and the efficacy of Roy playing off the ball v. on the ball is hardly clear.
No. Roy SCORES better off the ball.
The post actually highlights Roy’s efficacy as a playmaker, while commenting that his personal scoring isn’t as efficient on the ball. This isn’t the same as saying he plays better, or is more valuable, off the ball.
Still, it does suggest that Roy & Miller playing together might be the best combination in the back court— provided Miller’s playmaking efficiency on-ball is comparable to Roy’s, and that Miller having the ball doesn’t cut Roy’s involvement down. Scoring more efficiently doesn’t become a plus unless you’re getting the chance to do so.
I’ve been an advocate for Roy being the primary playmaker basically because he’s been cut out of things when he’s been off the ball. Until recently, many of our sets where Roy was off the ball saw him spend time buried in a corner on the weak side, and that’s a really silly thing to do with an All Star.
If we’re able to take him off the ball and still ‘feature’ him, I think we’ll come out ahead. He needs to be in places on the court where he provides a threat to opponents, even when he doesn’t have the ball. The more aware they have to be of him, the more things open up for other guys. He should be averaging 17-18 FGA/game, and seeing more sets like the ones where he flares out of the key to the foul line extended to receive passes. These types of plays put him in spots on the court where opposing teams have to remain vigilant at all times, because there’s a constant threat of Roy receiving the ball inside his most effective range. Naturally, this makes life easier for the rest of the team.
I guess the best way to explain it is this: Roy being cut out of the offense is like a kickboxer dropping his hand below his waist. The guy he’s fighting is less worried about being damaged by that hand because it’s not in position to do immediate damage. By keeping that hand up and in position to throw a punch, the boxer forces his opponent to be wary, which opens up other areas of attack. We want opposing corners (coaches) to be screaming “STAY AWAY FROM HIS RIGHT HAND” (“don’t lose Roy!”).
This is great stuff.
I too am interested in the Blake Miller comparison.
Ben, can anyone look at the Synergy data?
Nothing Witty Here, move along.
Defense
Ben,
As Randy Moss might say, this is money. Straight cash, Holmes.
I think this is especially helpful for the insights on defense — since there are fewer stats to back up assertions regarding players being good defenders. What can you tell us about our perimter defense?
Good stuff
And it’s nice to see the numbers showing that already Oden is a much better post up option than Aldridge. I am mostly encouraged by Greg’s passing out of the post. As he get’s more comfortable on the court and continues to improve his passing, this will only lead to less double teams and more options for him to work with less resistance in the post. This in turn makes the other players better as well.
I think we need to make Oden the number 2 option on offense right now and hopefully within the year he probably should be our number one option.
"I saw him in the face" Sergio's quote on the latest alley-oop to Rudy.
if you do that
you may see his efficiency go down because defense will focus even more. I wouldn’t make him number two, but I think I’d definitely increase touches a bit.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
re: Oden as number 1 option...
You may note that the comments about his offensive efficacy highlighted his shot selection, and Roy’s FG% this season, rather than commenting on how consistently Oden scored while posting up. This is crucial, because making somebody a number 2 or number 1 option specifically means you’re prioritizing that player as a ‘go-to’ scorer.
I would bet that Oden’s offensive effectiveness and very high field goal % have been due to what he’s done on broken plays and offensive rebounds, rather than what he’s done as a post up/go-to scorer.
This isn’t to say that I think he’s a bad scorer in those situations, just that his real value on offense may very well be akin to what has worked best for Dwight Howard, which is a modest amount of go-to plays/post ups, with the rest of his scoring coming on ‘garbage’. While that may sound like an insult, I think that the level of ability to generate points in those situations is one of the biggest values you can get from a player, because (like Dwight and Oden) those guys’ offense tends to take care of itself without detracting from what anyone else is doing.
I think Oden’s efficiency would take a nose-dive over an extended period of time spent pumping the post repeatedly.
All of this being said, it makes perfect sense to give him more post-ups than we give to LMA, and to let LMA get his scores on pick & rolls and face up situations.
Wouldn't it be better
to try to create some of those “broken” situations by, rather than posting Greg all the time, running the pick and roll with him (and really looking for him when he’s rolling), so he’s attacking defenders on the move?
I will say this for posting Greg, though. The brilliant thing I’m seeing about Greg’s posting up is not how much he scores, but how well he hits cutters and open men.
"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5
this is awesome. one of the best posts on the site in the long time that I have been reading.
The most shocking is LMA’s defense. I feel like I need to say sorry.
i cry for nic
no you don't.
He’s been lazy. Extremely lazy. More effective than I give him credit for, perhaps, but extremely lazy.
Draft Ryan Wittman
harsher than my post
but I felt that way too when i watched him live and up close.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
At times, this is true
but certainly not all the time. And the stats, of course, are based on entire season so far.
"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5
I wonder what
the past three or four games would show.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
He was pathetic against Miami
"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5
by jscot on Dec 4, 2009 1:17 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
The area where I feel he's really lacking--besides post defense-- is his help defense when a guard gets beat
That doesn’t seem to be covered in the stats Ben posted.
Draft Ryan Wittman
Right
I agree. I’ve always thought he was an excellent man defender, average in the post but very, very good otherwise. So I like these stats because they make me feel smart. :)
But I have never thought his help defense was very good.
"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5
I agree, except that he's average in post defense
He’s way below average, as these stats indicate.
Draft Ryan Wittman
I know Aldridge is good
but watching that Memphis game erased everything I rationally knew. As I asked ben, i wonder if the stats can record effort that well, because I’ve seen him not so great with the effort at times.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
It's hard to say with Zach
Even back when he was a Blazer he’d get 20 and 10 against the best defenders in the league, like Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Ben Wallace, Rasheed. Most of Zach’s points come out of rebounding scrums and broken plays, so it’s hard to pin that on LA.
that and his weak spot ar the memorable plays
thinking over the past 30 years of watching pro ball (although I took a decade off). I remember specific post plays (Jamees dunking on Teyshaun Prince is one that comes to mind) better than jumpers, unless the jumpers come in super critical situations or in notable fashion (Reggie Miller scoring 8 in 6 seconds or less if I remember the timing).
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
me too, me too
Although we know these guys are good, they just are not working as team right now. they have the piececs they just have to put them together.
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
Love this
Two questions:
1) How difficult is it to compare players who have switched teams? In this way, I want to try and use Synergy statistics to better understand strength of coaching. If Playere A has score X but moves to a new team and has score Y, I want to say that the new team has the better system (read: the better coach). Can this sort of thing be tracked with JJ, Sergio, Channing, Diogu, Telfair, etc?
2) I wonder about sharing the statistics with players. For example, if the coach coaches to the statistics as a method of information (like a business person would with market research), then all the players know that the team stinks at LMA passes out of the post. They work on it. But then, in game situations, does it become a kind of self-fulfilling proophecy? Does Steve Blake, knowing that his percentages are way down on an LMA pass out of the block, suddenly drop his own percentage points in that situation in the games? There are times, I would imagine, when it would be better for the players not to know. Which makes an interesting puzzle for a would-be coach.
I really, really like getting insights like this—both the stats and McMillan’s taken on it. I’d love to see more and more detailed analyses. For example:
1) Does it matter WHO sets the pick for Roy?
2) Is there a stat that tracks the “camp out” spot in the corner and does that lonliness and immobility translate to overall diminished production?
3) Do cute chearleaders tend to distract Rudy when taking shots?
Seems like there’s loads of opportunity here. I’d love to see more.
Buck Williams for the hall of fame
1) It does matter who sets the pick. Roy is definitely more comfortable with Joel on the pick and roll right now and seems to hit Joels small hands much more than the huge mitts Greg has. Hopefully this changes as Brandon and Greg play more with each other. Remember that Brandon and Joel have been together since Brandon entered the league.
I would also like to see more Rip Hamiltonesque movement as opposed to Lebron Jamesish isolations on Roy’s part. Set multiple screens for the guy and give him the open mid-range jumper for 3 quarters before we decide to go 1 on 4. Now we have a stat that says he cans those over 90% of the time.
wondering
if management trades and acquires on these numbers and not all the team really cares about or uses the numbers to change their game does it really help the greater good?
If Miller uses the numbers but Brandon doesn’t isn’t it somewhat misleading when wanting to bring in a different player? DO NOT TRADE MILLER!!
Great post, Ben. Lot's of good information to digest and I find it strangely comforting.
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
Awesome stuff!
I got this impression that the old ‘eye-ball’ test rates at ‘very good’ in its relationship to the stat analysis and that is why Nate uses the video analysis as the primary teaching tool. At least for me, seeing the evidence (on film) sticks to my brain much better than just handing over the stat sheet. I would guess that is true for most people….
bq.“[As a coaching tool], the visual is good. Video is good as well as numbers and stats. We use both. But what’s more available to us [and accessible to the players] is the video.”
"Do me a favor. Put your lip over your head... and swallow." Max Goldman
Absolutely incredible Ben
Kudos.
Oden is a beast… yeah… duh :) How horrible to have a bust like him… MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
A comment on stats. When Aldridge MAKES the effort, I think he’s good. In that memphis game I think we all saw moments he didn’t. ( i did anyway) That’s what stuck in the craw there. I wonder if stats can really reflect the hustle and effort or how much better Aldridge would do if he didn’t quit on some defensive plays. To be fair, memphis is the game i was at and noticed.
You know the break down many blazer fans are looking for. Miller and Blake. How they’re doing individually and how they interact with start players and how star players interact with them. Please please please I’d love to read that.
Also… toss in Bayless and compare this year blake to last year blake.
Excellent job Ben. Thank you.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
I think it has something to do with his weak spot vs his strong spot
the 17% he of the possessions that he rates poor on are the ones people tend to notice more. For most people, a player misses a jumper either the player just took a bad shot or the defensive unit did a good job forcing them into a bad shot. The guy on him does not stand out on that play.
Randolh going right at Aldridge in the post and popping a layup is more memorable than Randolph missing a jumpshot with Aldridge defending well
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
One of the brilliant things about a post like this
is that fans get a glimpse into just how much more data the team has than we have.
And decisions are made on things that we completely miss.
How many fans have said that Blake reeks at everything and is bringing nothing to the team, and yet the cold hard facts are that he ranks as Very Good at spot up shooting. Now, Very Good isn’t Excellent (and you can probably book it that he WAS excellent last year), and it is just one skill.
But I was one who wouldn’t have called his spot up shooting Very Good this year. Nate and his assistants know better than I did, though.
There’s so much more than even knowledgable fans will see, and you can be sure, if Paul Allen is going to pay $56 million in salaries, he’s going to pay $500K or whatever is needed to get all the stats and info his coaches and GM need to make good evaluations. And Nate may be a video guy, but you can bet there are assistant coaches who are poring over the stats, too, and pointing out things that Nate can confirm when he looks at film.
And don’t they have a bunch of proprietary stats, in addition to the Synergy ones?
"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5
I wonder what it says about Roy's defense this year
I suspect its not pretty.
Rough go of it on both ends for BRoy this year.
Draft Ryan Wittman
Great job Ben!
Key point:
Which brought to mind the old adage: data is only meaningful when acted upon. How exactly does the Blazers coaching staff give meaning to all of these numbers on a day-to-day basis?
-If the coaching staff has this information regarding Roy, they don’t seem to be using it.
-The defensive breakdown of Oden sure defies what I’m seeing with my eyes…sheesh, how many times have I seen Oden come in and completely strengthen the teams defense; when he sits teams tend to score in bunches.
its when both Oden AND Joel are out that the other team really takes over.
Ben’s post squares with what I’ve seen— plenty of guys have hit faceup jumpers on Greg this year. Greg’s been awesome in terms of interior D, but doesn’t challenge the midrange jumpers that well. I wonder what Joel does that Greg doesn’t to combat those, if anything.
Draft Ryan Wittman
Well, remember
this also doesn’t cover help defense, and Greg is erasing a whole lot of other people’s mistakes.
"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5
sure. I'm not down on Greg's defense at all-- except fouls-- but I'm just wondering if there is something he could do to lower his man's percentage on face up jumpers.
Draft Ryan Wittman
he is figuring that out
i get why he has trouble, Oneal beat on him all not long with few calls. There was one play where Oden had the ball, got Oneal up the air, oneal had his forearm squarely on top of greg pushing him down hard, greg just shot through it and scored on that one, but no foul.
Oden gets called for some ticky tack stuff compared to the abuse he takes from the opposition.
The conspiracy theorist in me cry calls foul play by the officals, but, in reality, even though oneal was all over greg, he easily shed him off and scored. When Greg makes contact it just looks bad, evven though what oneal did to him is far worse in terms of what a foul is.
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
right
i posted below wondering if they track fequency perimeter gets beaten and number of fouls Oden picks up defending those players vs his guy. I know it is team defense, but oden gets killed with fouls on other players guys…at least that is what my eyes are telling me.
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
It's not anything that Joel does
the other team doesn’t take those shots over Joel because when he is in it is much easier for them to attack the rim.
Sucking at darts is not a super power
Fatnstic Stuff
Not only were the numbers great, but your take on what they mean seems solid to me. Oden’s defense on jumpers is an interesting stat. I think it is a combination of things though.
1. Trying to avoid cheap fouls.
2, Knowing he needs to keep close enough to te rim to supply help if an offensive player beats the perimeter defender on a cut.
There are actually two numbers around Oden’s/the teams game I would love to see some numbers on:
1. Frequency perimeter players are beaten.
2. Number of fouls commited by oden on penetrating guards where perimeter players are beaten.
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
Do they have a way to track proper execution?
Did each player make the proper decision given the situation or the play that was called? It would almost be considered a BBIQ stat.
I get the paper, so I don't care!
Very interesting read. I like what these numbers reveal. I will like them more when they reveal
that those holes have been patched up.
Boy, I love this stat based stuff.
Fantastic post, Ben. Thanks for sharing!
Rec
means Recommend. At the very end of every post the read can “Rec” a story for others to read. It is also possible to Rec a comment. Just click the Actions link and click Rec. If enough people rec, then the comment turns green, and it becomes really noticeable for all to read and enjoy.
If a fanpost or shot is recced, then it moves up to the reccommended section at the top, and it stays there until it is knocked out.
I get the paper, so I don't care!
recommend
there is a link at the bottom of this post, click it if you would recommend it to fellow blazer fans read it. Keeps fanposts on the top of the list and so forth.
Comments can be reced by clicking on actions by that comment.
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
by PDXBuckeye on Dec 4, 2009 3:25 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks Ben !!!
Can’t wait to see the defense rating with a front line of Oden, LA and Nic.
Anyone know what the combined wing span would be??
"That's just how I get down"........ Andre Miller
One thing this post teaches everyone...
… is how pathetic and outdated the traditional box score is. It’d be nice to put that thing quietly to death.
Alas, it will probably linger on into the future like the QWERTY keyboard.
Buck Williams for the hall of fame
Interesting read, but nothing surprising in terms of revelations.
Still, it’s nice to see further evidence why Greg needs to touch the ball as much as possible. I’d figure that Roy wasn’t in top two in our team in efficiency, but it was a bit of a surprise that LA would be #2.
Ben
You have come to play this year! Sweeeeeet stuff. I can just picture a John Belushi (Animal House) assault on one center court trash bin for the test key. Fine work young man.
"CRUSH YOUR ENEMIES, SEE THEM DRIVEN BEFORE YOU, AND HEAR THE LAMENTATION OF THEIR WOMEN." CONAN
by SELFDESTRUCTABLE on Dec 4, 2009 9:53 PM PST reply actions
HEY BEN!!!
You know what you can do with your stats?!?!!
You can take em and cram em down Your #$% and shove em up every single player's !#$% our team until they blead out their eyes and !#$% comes out their noses……
I read your whole post and …… all I can come up with (if what you say of Mac’s attitude is true) is,….. wait for it…..
FIRE NATE!!!!
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
Head Czar of Amerika <--- Mortimer said so so there!!!
EDIT....insert "on" after my second #@%
And I rec’d it before I had my awsome outburst. :)
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
Head Czar of Amerika <--- Mortimer said so so there!!!
I sometimes wonder if you experience constant acid flashbacks...
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
by BlazersOrBust on Dec 5, 2009 5:43 AM PST up reply actions
I'm glad Nate thinks video trumps stats
Better to trust your eyes than hoping some guy remembered to carry the two.
Start Andre Miller NOW to showcase him for a trade.
Is there a rec RECord?
50 recs is a grip! Whats the record for the most recs on post?
The Dude: Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!
by cavejunctionblazer on Dec 5, 2009 3:51 PM PST reply actions

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