Trade Drawer (with an idea to get the discussion going)
by Blazer Guy on Dec 3, 2009 11:23 AM PST
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PrintLet me preface this post by making clear that I'm not actually in favor of making any trades at the moment. But as John Hollinger noted yesterday, "I can't imagine the Blazers will stand pat with this group if they continue to underperform."
So for the sake of discussion, let's consider what options the Blazers might have on the trade market. Here's my idea (which is probably way more complex than it needs to be). It's a four team deal involving Portland, Houston, Toronto, and Orlando:
PORTLAND gets: Shane Battier (SF), Jose Calderon (PG), Chuck Hayes (C).
PORTLAND trades: Joel Przybilla (C), Steve Blake (G), Travis Outlaw (F), Jerryd Bayless (G), Jeff Pendergraph (PF)
Rationale: Portland gets a starting SF (Battier) who is one of the best wing defenders in the league and has a high basketball IQ. We get a slight upgrade at PG (Calderon over Blake). Calderon's a bad defender, but probably not much worse than Blake and he does everything on offense better than Blake. At back up center, we essentially swap Przybilla for Hayes. Hayes is not a shot-blocker like Pryz, but he's an excellent position defender and is slightly better on offense (better hands). As for the other pieces, we lose Outlaw (who we'll lose at the end of the season anyway), as well as Bayless and Pendergraph (the latter of which hasn't played at all and the former only getting spot playing time). In terms of the rotation, we would essentially be swapping 2 significant rotation players for 3.
TORONTO gets: Joel Przybilla (C), Steve Blake (PG)
TORONTO trades: Jose Calderon (PG), R. Nesterovic (C), and its 2010 1st round pick (top 5 protected)
Rationale: Toronto upgrades on defense by getting a real center; gets out of Calderon's contract without losing much at the PG. Pick is top 5 protected in case the experiment crashes and they tank.
HOUSTON gets: Marcin Gortat (C), Travis Outlaw (F), and Toronto's 2010 1st round pick (top 5 protected)
HOUSTON trades: Chuck Hayes (C), Shane Battier (SF)
Rationale: Houston gets upgrade at center; saves some money with Outlaw's expiring contract and likely gets a high 2010 pick. They're not going win it this year anyway.
ORLANDO gets: Jerryd Bayless (G), Jeff Pendergraph (PF), R. Nestorvic (C)
ORLANDO trades: Marcin Gortat (C)
Rationale: Orlando gets two promising young players (Bayless, Pendergraph) in exchange for downgrading at the backup center position and saving some money.
I'm pretty sure this trade works from a salary cap standpoint (though Gortat's BYC status may complicate things), but it can't happen until after Dec. 15, when recently signed free agents like Gortat can be traded. Also, while you might not think this is such a great trade for the Blazers (fair enough), understand that I'm trying to be realistic here. I'm trying to propose a trade that other parties might actually be interested in (i.e, not Blake/Outlaw for Chris Paul).
Okay, feel free to bash away or propose something different.
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Tayshaun Prince is coming back soon.
You getting close to coming back? Tayshaun Prince: “I’m close. It’s feeling really good lately. I haven’t set a timetable or anything yet, but I’m working with the trainers. We’ll see.” HoopsWorld
He’s practicing and can go several days without any stiffness in his back. Sounds like he should be in action soon. Rudy, Blake, and Outlaw for Prince works. Cuts loose some superfluous parts and add depth where we need it.
Miller/Bayless
Roy/Webster/Prince
Prince/Webster
Aldridge/Cunningham
Oden/Przybilla
by Nick Van Excellent on Dec 3, 2009 11:40 AM PST reply actions
This is the kind of move you'd think about for 24 year old Trevor Ariza
not an injury riddled, 30 year old Tayshaun Prince. Even then it seems pretty reactionary making a trade to replace Nicolas Batum when he still resides on the roster. Loose parts should go towards fixing point guard IMO, even with the injuries SF hasn’t been the issue. Martell has been fine when he’s started and Roy is picture perfect coming in after that. It also doesn’t help all the much considering Rudy has been our best perimeter defender this year.
good to see you, again
The scout that talks to Wheels agreed with you, last month. He said that Prince would not be an upgrade for Portland. When Batum is healthy, he will provide what Tayshaun provides with younger legs and an affordable price tag
Besides, Portland’s roster is stretched thin. Trading 3 guys for 1 (right now) isn’t viable, there would be no one left over for Nate to hold a 5-on-5 practice. KP would have to fill out the roster with 10-day contracts
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
MIller should be starting
The team is getting pounded in the 1st quarter, so the arguments to “keep starting Blake” are losing steam. Nate and KP need to find out how much Andre can help them win games during the next month or so, because if he isn’t the answer, they might as well well “admit defeat” and flip him at the deadline to fill another need (forward) and let Bayless get some PT. Sure, the bench will suck with Steve as the backup PG but right now the Blazers are a triage patient that’s bleeding from multiple wounds so they might as well treat the starting lineup issues, first
Right now the playoffs are a long way away. It’s fish or cut bait time
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Agreed
It’s amazing to me that people are calling for Miller to be traded when the dude really hasn’t been given much of a chance to do anything. Give him the starting role, put Blake on the bench, and see how things go for 5 games or so (at least). Until they do that, we really won’t know what Miller’s value is to us. If it doesn’t work, then fine, trade him. But at least give the guy a chance to do what he does.
www.blazerguy.com
Looks like we got our wish
time to hold our collective breath and take the plunge over the waterfall. Hopefully there will still be some good basketball played by the red/black on the “other side” of the white water
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
INJURY RIDDLED?
He’s had ONE minor injury in like six years. His back sounds like it’s doing fine and until this season he was the second leading iron man behind Andre Miller. He’s missed 15 games in eight years. (Batum’s missed 22 games in less than two years)
That’s hardly injury ridden.
Batum’s best case scenario is somewhere around where Prince is right now. He’s just not there yet and has never shown the kind of production Prince has, especially on offense. He might get there one day, but I tend to favor players who have already reached their potential, rather than just having a roster filled with potential, maybes, and hopefuls.
I couldn’t care less about losing Rudy, although I do think he has been our most consistent perimeter defender this year.
by Nick Van Excellent on Dec 3, 2009 2:19 PM PST up reply actions
I've got to agree with as11osu that Tayshaun Prince is on the downhill swing of his prime and ...
doesn’t fit Portland’s upcoming window that’ll open within the next two or so years. Regarding Trevor Ariza, however, Daryl Morey is a more intelligent front office executive than Kevin Pritchard, so there’s no way the Portland Trail Blazers could get the Houston Rockets to part ways with the budding small forward.
Dear Paul Allen:
Fire Nate McMillan & hire Jeff Van Gundy.
Sincerely,
AK1984
He's only 29.
That’s the exact same argument people (including as11osu) used against Hinrich a couple seasons ago. I would be concerned if he was 32 or 33, but odds are he still has 4 years or so of production left.
by Nick Van Excellent on Dec 3, 2009 9:43 PM PST up reply actions
Meh, you kind of have me there. Yet, in many cases, wing players age a bit quicker than ...
point guards. In addition, Tayshaun Prince has a physique that doesn’t look as if it’ll hold up well over time. Now, you could argue Reggie Miller disproved that theory, although I’d counter with how Prince’s style of game is much more physical than that of Miller. At any rate, though, I’d take my chances with Nicolas Batum over the long haul instead of going all-in for Prince.
Dear Paul Allen:
Fire Nate McMillan & hire Jeff Van Gundy.
Sincerely,
AK1984
I'm not a huge fan of Miller, but at this age
Bruce Bowen, with a similarly wiry physique as Prince was pretty much just beginning his run as the Spurs’ defensive stopper. Bowen had much less mileage on him at that point, but the shelf life of smart defensive wings tends to last well past 30.
I'd argue "less mileage" had a lot to do with Bruce Bowen aging more gracefully ...
than many of his wing counterparts. Also, Bowen was strictly a defensive stopper with an extremely limited game on offense; thus, he didn’t need to exude as much energy out on the court as more complete players.
Dear Paul Allen:
Fire Nate McMillan & hire Jeff Van Gundy.
Sincerely,
AK1984
Exactly.
Which explains why Prince lost some of his defensive chops once the Pistons tried to run all the offense through him. To me he seems like the sort of guy who plays better on good teams. He could be the best 5th man in basketball, just not effective as your first or second option.
by Nick Van Excellent on Dec 4, 2009 4:43 AM PST up reply actions
I'm curious which players you think Tayshaun is capable of shutting down now
that wouldn’t also be covered by the Batum blanket when he returns. Tayshaun in the early days got his rep defending K*be. I think K*be would use Tayshaun in unhealthy ways at this point.
LeBron also destroys him. Shouldn’t your defensive stopper be capable of stopping, or at least hampering those types? This Tayshaun I just don’t think passes those tests anymore.
Besides Richard Jefferson, who stops himself half the time anyway, I can’t think of one WC playoff team that has a player that having Tayshaun instead of Batum makes us significantly better against.
He shut Andre Iguodala down in the playoffs.
Iggy was averaging 19 point a game in the regular season, but Prince held him to just 13 in the playoffs and his FG% dropped off the face of the Earth.
No one can shut Lebron down. I wouldn’t want either Batum or Prince guarding him. I would still rather have Price guarding Kobe though.
He had four all defense selections followed by one bad year. Until the trend actually continues it’s probably just an anomaly.
by Nick Van Excellent on Dec 4, 2009 6:55 PM PST up reply actions
That was a long long time ago
we’re not talking about that Tayshaun anymore. Also, shutting AI2 down just means you back off him and lit him shoot himself into the ground. He’s a very mediocre offensive player now, and two years ago was an even worse one.
Just went to check it out, and as I suspected, it’s his jump shot that killed him. .292 on jumpers in that series, which made for 70% of his shots. It’s like allowing Josh Smith to shoot jumpers.
And with Roy, Oden and Aldridge
at the very least, why would we try to run any of our offense through Prince?
Again, I’m not saying that I’d be thrilled by acquiring him, but even conceding the less mileage point, Bowen played huge minuted for the next SEVEN years for the Spurs as their defensive guy. Prince probably has 3-4 more solid years as a defensive stopper if he can land on a good team and just go back to being a role player.
why would we try to run any of our offense through Prince?
Tayshaun could be a point forward from the wing, and Portland was looking for a similar player when they pursued Hedo.
But I’d rather just wait a couple of months for Nic. It’s hard to see how you could put Batum and Prince on the court together, and #88 will need more PT to develop than he got last year
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
For sure.
I can’t predict his health, but he played the past five seasons without missing a game until now. It’s not like he’s super banged up and it doesn’t seem far fetched that he could get back to his old self.
Again, I didn’t watch him much last season, or pay much attention when I did, so it’s possible that he has lost a step. It just doesn’t seem super likely to me with his history and age.
by Nick Van Excellent on Dec 4, 2009 3:00 AM PST up reply actions
Dunno how much you watched Tay last season
but he’s not the defender he used to be. He went from excellent defense and mediocre offense to mediocre defense and mediocre offense, and that was before the injury. His defensive play’s been on a downswing since ’07 – I would pick him up for MLE at this point but not give up actual talent, much less something along the lines you suggest.
by howlingfantods on Dec 3, 2009 9:37 PM PST up reply actions
I didn't watch him play much last season.
The Pistons as a whole had been terrible, so I’m not really concerned about him slipping. Billups production was slipping too, but that changed once he went to a better team.
I guess mostly I disagree with your definition of “actual talent”. I think Blake is currently the worst starting PG in the league. Outlaw is a decent sixth man. Rudy is a poor man’s Rip Hamilton at his best.
I wouldn’t really consider it giving up too much, even if Prince is slipping.
by Nick Van Excellent on Dec 3, 2009 9:47 PM PST up reply actions
well, if i hadn't watched him much last year,
I’d be all for making all sorts of trades for him too. Through 06-07, I used to fantasize about all sorts of trade possibilities for him, but he’s really not that good anymore. He went from underrated to overrated, partly because he just doesn’t play like the Tay you remember.
His dropoff has been pretty subtle, partly because his defensive play is pretty subtle, relying so much on positioning and contesting over more dramatic stuff like blocks and steals, and two years ago, I was wondering if I was imagining the dropoff. Last year, it became totally clear it was real. I don’t see any reason to expect a return to form.
by howlingfantods on Dec 3, 2009 9:55 PM PST up reply actions
I saw him play five or so times last season.
I didn’t notice a huge drop off, it just seemed like the Pistons were using him more and he was seeing more defensive pressure as a result, which limited him. There wasn’t anyone to help carry the burden, which happens, it’s one reason Devin Harris is no longer the all world defender he once was. When a team as a whole drops off, I tend to forgive their role players. That’s why I wasn’t concerned about Hinrich’s huge drop since it coincided with the Bulls as a whole. Same thing with the Pistons.
I’m willing to bet that a healthy Prince is still a better role player at age 29 then anyone else we have. He hadn’t missed a game for five years straight, suddenly he has a back strain and he’s “riddled” with injuries. He had ONE bad season. Odds are he’ll just regress back towards the mean.
by Nick Van Excellent on Dec 4, 2009 12:20 AM PST up reply actions
Chris Duhon and Derek Fisher are technically worse than Steve Blake.
Dear Paul Allen:
Fire Nate McMillan & hire Jeff Van Gundy.
Sincerely,
AK1984
I forgot about Duhon.
Fisher is still better than Blake. Draws twice as many fouls, hits clutch shots, doesn’t get out muscled.
by Nick Van Excellent on Dec 4, 2009 12:04 AM PST up reply actions
I'd also rather have Fisher
Blake is also better than Flynn. Not like that’s saying anything at all.
Maybe...
Flynn has a better PER, same TS%. I haven’t watched him enough to compare the two on defense.
by Nick Van Excellent on Dec 4, 2009 2:55 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, Jonny Flynn is a heavily overhyped player who's a horrendous ...
fit at the 1 with the Minnesota T’wolves—especially if Kurt Rambis is hell bent on installing Tex Winter’s ol’-fashioned triple-post offense. In that offense, the 1 is supposed to be an off guard rather than a dribble-drive gunner.
Dear Paul Allen:
Fire Nate McMillan & hire Jeff Van Gundy.
Sincerely,
AK1984
Flynn is a poor shooter, passer and defender
he’s not a winning part of any team.
On the bragging side of things
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?sort=per&pos=rookies&seasonType=2
Top 3 guys are THE 3 guys I wanted. Just a massive fail by management. We could have had all of them, at very low cost.
I, too, have much love DeJuan Blair and Darren Collison, but I ...
must say I still put Brandon Jennings in that Kenny Anderson/Rod Strickland/Nick Van Exel realm of stat-stuffing point guards who do have a hard time being anything but a good, yet not great player on an average club. Plus, I doubt Brandon Roy and Jennings would’ve meshed well together. Regardless of our difference there, though, I’m also hugely disappointed Blair and Collison aren’t in Portland.
Dear Paul Allen:
Fire Nate McMillan & hire Jeff Van Gundy.
Sincerely,
AK1984
Glad to see you're still reppin the profit JVG
Dear KP, let it be so.
Jennings wouldn’t have been a perfect fit, but I think you’re still looking it the wrong way. Last year every move had to be focused around how a player fit around Roy. Oden’s just as important going forward, and Jennings is fan-friggin-tastic at getting his big open looks down low. The only thing I was worried about before the season was Jennings range, and I think we got a loud and clear affirmative on his being able to knock down the long ball. All that said, with Nate… doesn’t really matter who you put on the roster, we’re still going to run the same flawed 20th century crap on the court with the flawed players.
Jennings would be wasted standing at the top of the key.
Plus, Blake would still be starting which might make me go crazy.
by Nick Van Excellent on Dec 4, 2009 4:39 AM PST up reply actions
It just makes me sad
Nate is so limited in the types of basketball his team can play. The versatility and potential lineups we could utilize given the roster KP has assembled might be THE tops in the league. We might never know how good over half the players on this team are until they leave.
Nah.
We could have had two of them. I actually suspect that the Blazers were trying to land Collison and couldn’t get a deal done. There was a rumor about them trying to move up for a player and then being disappointed it didn’t happen.
I wanted Jennings, but it probably would have taken Rudy to get him. The Bucks had a good scouting read on him, so they knew what he was worth. For the record, I agree with AK1984 that he probably wouldn’t work well with Roy. This team can barley handle Miller, I’m sure Nate’s head would explode trying to get Jennings worked in to the offense.
Blair is a poor defender and an amazing rebounder, which is sort of the opposite of what our roster needs, although it would be nice to have him now. My father is missing one of his ACL’s and gives Blair about a year before he has serious knee problems. Probably not worth it. Why waste a roster spot on a guy who’s almost guaranteed to be chronically injured throughout his career?
by Nick Van Excellent on Dec 4, 2009 4:38 AM PST up reply actions
I believe it was Tyler Hansbrough who KP and the scouting ...
department sought after, which would’ve been an epic failure — as Hansbrough is the second-coming of Darius Songaila — so let’s all be remarkably thankful that didn’t go down last June.
Regarding DeJuan Blair, you’re right that his poor defense and lack of a face-up game would’ve been problematic. Luckily for Blair, though, he’s often paired with a guy in Antonio McDyess who’s a good second unit frontline fit next to him. Indeed, Blair should be thankful that he landed with the San Antonio Spurs.
Yeah, Brandon Jennings is in a good position with a strict head coach like Scott Skiles — who I thought would either make him or break him with no middle ground, while it appears he made it — instead of Nate McMillan. With the stolid, inflexible McMillan coaching and a prima donna in Brandon Roy calling the shots, Jennings would’ve had a rough time finding his groove. Plus, I’m still wary of Kenny Anderson/Rod Strickland/Nick Van Exel esque point guards — which is the category I put Jennings in — but, uh, that’s just me.
Dear Paul Allen:
Fire Nate McMillan & hire Jeff Van Gundy.
Sincerely,
AK1984
Blair might not have fit well with Joel in teh so-called 2nd unit, but he and LMA could’ve made some hay, together. I like the “contrast” that DeJuan would’ve brought to the PF position, the Blazers needed the toughness and Nate is still imploring the players to scrap, 6+ months after the Houston series. DB and Cunningham would’ve been a great duo, as long as Blair’s knees held up
But we all heard how Nate/KP were gaga after that pre-draft workout with Dante, Pendergraph and Hansbrough. They drafted 2 of ’em, and tried to move up and draft Psycho T before settling for Claver
If Victor doesn’t come over and do some nice things in a few years, the ’09 draft may be “looked back on” as the day KP had 4 selections and “made good” with one while failing to pick some some ripe, low-hanging talent
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Top 3 guys are THE 3 guys I wanted. Just a massive fail by management.
Man oh man, DeJuan Blair. RC Buford FTW
There’s a reason why some teams win 4 titles in 10 years, and why other teams lose in round 1
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
rudy's going nowhere
and it’s time for B-Roy to start thinking about the WHOLE team. with his ball handling abilities, I don’t see why our best lineup (when Nic’s healthy) and our closing lineup for games couldn’t be Rudy/Roy/Nic/LA/Oden. that would create some problems.
Addressing the Prince issue…. Rudy’s going nowhere…at least not this season. if we were to make a trade, I could see the Blazers going for Hinrich, Ariza, Artest, Gerald Wallace…all of these guys could be had, especially Hinrich and Wallace…and why not both?
4 Team Trade: Portland, Charlotte, Utah, Chicago
Portland Trades: Martell Webster, Travis Outlaw, Joel Pryzbilla, Steve Blake, Jeff Pendergraph
Portland Receives: Kirk Hinrich, Gerald Wallace, Kryrylo Fesenko
PG: Miler/Hinrich/Bayless/…Mills
SG: Roy/Rudy/Bayless
SF: Batum/Wallace/Roy
PF: LA/Dante
C: Oden/Fesenko
Why This Works: I know that almost everybody’s 90 year old grandma will castrate me for trading Joel Pryzbilla, saying “he’s the only security we have for Greg Oden, and we’ll get screwed when he fouls out in the 2nd quarter!!!” But calm granny down, get her to put down her ‘skinnin blade’ and put in the hearing aids. With Portland receiving two (2){dos} capable perimeter defenders, the PRESSURE will be off of Greg. How many of his fouls come because of little point guards getting around their man and jumping into Oden? about 70% I’d say (without a real stat at hand). Hinrich is an excellent passer and legitimate 3 pt threat, and Wallace is a bruiser and a REBOUNDER!!!!! Fesenko can back Greg up with 15-20 minutes a game and we can go small with LA and Wallace/Dante on the block too. Getting rid of Troutlaw is a given, we lose him at the end of the season anywho. Basically, upgrade at PG, upgrade at SF, opens up time for Rudy & Bayless, and best of all, GO gets the perimeter help he really needs.
Charlotte Trades: Gerald Wallace
Charlotte Gets: Steve Blake, Joel Pryzbilla
PG: Blake/Felton/Augustine/Law
SG: Jackson/Henderson/Blake
SF: Diaw/Jackson/Brown
PF: Chandler/Diaw/Brown
C: Pryzbilla/Chandler/Mohammed/Diop/Ajinca
Why this works: Larry Brown needs a tough big man (cuz Chandler’s as soft as 7 footers come) and a veteran PG to run his offense. Ray Felton’s gone after this year, he’s too expensive, and he won’t bring anything in with a trade. If anybody wanted him, they would’ve gotten him as a free agent over the summer. Only problem with this is that the Bobcats get pretty thin on wing player with Wallace gone, but slide Chandler to the 4, Diaw to his natural position at 3, and you’ve got a pretty good lineup, which is more than I can say for them now.
Chicago Trades: Kirk Hinrich, Tyrus Thomas, John Salmons
Chicago Gets: Carlos Boozer, Martell Webster
PG: Rose/Pargo
SG: Webster/Hunter
SF: Deng/Webster/Johnson
PF: Boozer/Gibson/Johnson
C: Noah/Miller/James/Gray
Why this works: Do I need to go into depth? Boozer solves almost every problem for the Bulls. They can afford to shed Thomas with Taj Gibson doing so well, Hinrich is expendable with Pargo backing Rose up, and Salmons is really nothing special. He would fit in well with Utah’s balance offense. Getting Martell is just a bonus, and he provides the 3 point threat they’re missing with Gordon gone.
Utah Trades: Carlos Boozer, Kryrylo Fesenko
Utah Receives: Tyrus Thomas, Travis Outlaw, John Salmons, Jeff Pendergraph
PG: Williams/Maynor/Price
SG: Brewer/Salmons/Korver
SF: AK/Outlaw/Korver/Miles
PF: Millsap/Thomas/Outlaw/Pendergraph
C: Okur/Koufos
Why this works: They get something for Boozer. Almost enough said. They actually get plenty for Boozer, scoring from Salmons and Outlaw, rebounding from Thomas and Pendergraph. They had no defense to begin with from Boozer, but their strong perimeter D makes up for the lack of shot blocking power (Pendergraph could find a niche). Boozer’s gone come summertime, and probably to the Bulls anyway. Most importantly, Millsap gets his room to work.
I’d like some feedback on this, so hit me with your best shot
Economic realities
of a pending collective agreement and a lower bar for the luxury tax probably preclude any trade that is going to be as good as any deal the blazers might make for a free agent next year.
well, Portland will be over the cap next July, regardless
so they will only be able to offer the same MLE to FAs that (most) of the other teams will have to offer. I see no clear advantage in KP waiting until then
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Houston is trading Battier on the 7th of never
Too valuable for their locker room/fanbase.
not so sure.
That’s what I thought originally, but from reading blogs/trade forums, I get the sense that Houston fans actually don’t value Battier as much as fans of other teams do. He’s constantly offered up as trade bait. Maybe I’m just not seing a representative sample, though.
But there are other reasons to think Battier is not untouchable. He’s 29 and plays the same position as the younger Trevor Ariza, who they clearly have a lot invested in. And while Houston is battling, I don’t think anyone there realistically thinks they’re going to contend this year. So they may well be willing to cash in Battier for pieces that will serve them better in the long run.
www.blazerguy.com
fans don't make trades
GM’s do.
Morey went against fan opinion and traded the dynamic Rudy Gay for Battier. I’d say the Rockets did pretty good on that one. The Rockets are a really great team of hustle players and scrappers, they are a healthy Yao Ming and whatever they can get for either McGrady or his capspace away from being contenders. They aren’t going to blow it up, they’re a great team in need of a star, that’s all.
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
One of our point guards is likely to be traded
Starting Blake or Andre and relegating the other to the bench is not gonna cut it.
Andre is a starting point guard who wants to play 30+ every game no matter what. Blake was a key cog in our playoff team last year and saved our bacon several times. They both have pride and serious guts but neither is a perfect fit for the role which point guards are supposed to fill in Nate’s system. In addition, neither one is gonna maximize his impact by sitting on the bench.
Either one would prove to be a valuable asset for another team.
I like B-Rex’s potential too much to see him leaving just yet.
Which teams like Miller and which teams like Blake?
Blake has an expiring contract and Miller is signed for a reasonable amount of time and money so he can be an attractive piece for a team that needs leadership.
My gut says that one of these guys is gone by the trade deadline.
Neither Houston, Toronto, nor Orlando would do this deal, so forget it.
1. Daryl Morey would never trade Shane Battier and Chuck Hayes, who are hard-working, efficient role players.
2. Toronto would never sell that low on Jose Calderon. Regardless of that, though, Calderon sucks on defense and wouldn’t solve Portland’s problems at the 1, with that being the need of a defensive-minded guy who can play off the ball.
3. Orlando could likely get more in return for the hard-nosed Marcin Gortat, especially when a ball-dominant shooting guard like Jerryd Bayless isn’t the kind of guy who’d succeed in Stan Van Gundy’s 4-outside/1-inside spread offense that needs potent long-range shooters — instead of me-first dribble-drive gunners — at every position except for the 5.
All in all, this is a ridiculously bad trade proposal.
Dear Paul Allen:
Fire Nate McMillan & hire Jeff Van Gundy.
Sincerely,
AK1984
"instead of me-first dribble-drive gunners"
I guess you don’t like Bayless do you? I don’t see him that way. He hasen’t been given the confidence to do anything else. Plus he only gets 1-3 minutes a game to do something so why not attack the basket? Its not like anybody else is doing it!
Well, honestly
we can’t call Bayless a “shooter” in the NBA so far, though he did well in college. He can get to the line, finish, and make an effort on D. Right now, that’s what he is. That isn’t really what Orlando uses it’s PG for though. Blake would be a better PG for the way Orlando plays than Bayless.
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
If Orlando desperately needs a short-term rental at point guard, then Otis Smith can use a part ...
of the Magic’s huge trade exception — which it acquired from the Hedo Turkoglu sign-and-trade deal involving four teams — to net a guy who can spread the floor and has veteran savvy like Earl Watson. Watson, in essence, would be this season’s Tyronn Lue for the Magic, which is exactly what the club needs to protect itself regarding depth behind the oft-injured Jameer Nelson, flashy Jason Williams, and aging Anthony Johnson.
Dear Paul Allen:
Fire Nate McMillan & hire Jeff Van Gundy.
Sincerely,
AK1984
Yeah, Watson would would work
cheap pickup that knows his place.
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
by HurraKane212 on Dec 4, 2009 12:44 PM PST up reply actions
But what do you really think? :)
Seriously, though, “ridiculously bad” seems a bit much, especially given many of the proposals that get tossed around here. And for the record, I posted this one a while back at realgm, and it got a decently warm reception from Toronto and Houston folks. Orlando not so much. While Morey of course loves Hayes and Battier, he also LOVES Gortat and all GMs love high draft picks. Toronto is also very down on Calderon right now and very desperate for defense. Don’t underestimate what they’d do to try to right the ship. And as for Orlando, Gortat went public with his frustrations just today. That guy’s getting moved, and soon.
www.blazerguy.com
Yeah, I was a bit harsh on you. Yet, with that said, Houston and Toronto definitely wouldn't do your ...
proposed deal. Aside from that, though, I do agree that Otis Smith may look to soon move Marcin Gortat — such as Orlando trades the “Polish Hammer” to Oklahoma City for Nick Collison, who’d be a decent backup 5 behind Dwight Howard — but only in return for a player with a shorter contract and the ability to adequately replace his production.
Dear Paul Allen:
Fire Nate McMillan & hire Jeff Van Gundy.
Sincerely,
AK1984
Morey
traded his High draft pick for Battier.
And who cares if opposing fans like a trade or not? What do they know? What do we know?
Fans hardly ever call trades that actually happen, fans don’t get fired when a team sucks.
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
but it's several years later now
And Morey knows that Houston isn’t going to win it all this year no matter how much they over-achieve. He values Battier, but he went and got Ariza anyway. Battier is not untouchable. Houston is looking to retool.
www.blazerguy.com
Um
Ariza can play SG just fine, they are not overly redundant. When you get the chance to get good young talent on the cheap, you do it. Ariza wasn’t a Battier replacement, he was an Artest replacement.
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
by HurraKane212 on Dec 4, 2009 12:48 PM PST up reply actions
A Portland/Chicago Trade: thoughts please
A Portland/Chicago 2-Team Trade Portland recieves:
Hinrich (3yrs 9.5m)
Thomas (1yr 4.7m)
Portland picks up a defensive upgrade, shooter and stabilising force at PG in Hinrich (who I would then start over blake), and a player who can defend the PF and SF (at a stretch in the absence of Batum) in Thomas, who will be out of contract at the end of the year
Chicago recieves:
Miller (3yrs 6.7m)
Outlaw (1yr 3.6m)
Pendergraph (3yrs 0.5m) AND/OR
2nd Rounder
Chicago considerably cuts their outlay on their backup point guard position in the run-up to a big free-agent summer by taking on Miller (I could perhaps see Miller being traded on again by Chi…), as well as recieving both a desperately needed scorer (as and when
he returns) and expiring contract in Outlaw. Finally they receive a prospect who it’s not hard to imagine they will be higher on than Tyrus, or if they are in full save mode, a pick which could be used on a foreign prospect stashed overseas.
This would leave us the following depth chart:
PG: Hinrich / Blake / Bayless
SG: Roy / Fernandez
SF: (Batum) / Webster / Thomas
PF: Aldridge / Thomas / Dante / Howard
C: Oden / Pryzbilla
So who doesnt make this trade?
you've got a 2-3 mil$ gap, there
Chicago’s sending 14.2 mil in salaries to Portland, and only getting back 10.3 (or 10.8 w/JP)
KP only has 1.4 mil in leftover capspace (if that) so you’d have to add Bayless to match up
I don’t see this happening, unless the Bulls lose Rose to injury and still want to compete. I think if the Bulls really wanted Travis as part of a HInrich deal, they could’ve made that happen last February and scored RLEC. Andre’s contract isn’t the same kind of expiring “prize” that Raef’s deal was
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Rocket fan here:hypothetical
I don’t really follow the Blazers much so I dont know what filler pieces you have like we do in (Cook, Dorsey, etc,) but tell me what you think of this:
Houston:
Rip Hamilton
Joel Pryzbilla
Portland:
Tayshaun Prince
Detroit:
Tracy McGrady
The trade doesnt work financially, it needs a filler from Portland to out, but this is the gist. I figure with the emergence of Oden, Pryzbilla is less important. You get your much needed player that can be effective w/o the ball. Detroit escapes their commitments to old system players, and we fill two pressing needs. Thoughts?
I liked Dorsey in summer league
but I’d rather have Landry or (drool) Hayes, than Prince. Portland will have Nic Batum returning from rehab this spring, and he’s a uyounger/cheaper version of Tayshaun
Good luck getting rid of TMac. If anyone can do it and get something nice in return, it’s Morey. I’ve thought that Przy would be a “good get” for you guys since Yao went down, but I don’t think Joel’s going anywhere, especially now that Portland is so thin in the frontcourt
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
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